Latest / Libido Lounge / Is Your Marriage Stuck in the Same Fight? with Dr. Jessica Higgins Part 1

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Is Your Marriage Stuck in the Same Fight? with Dr. Jessica Higgins Part 1 · Libido Lounge

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  People are attempting to talk through something and not feeling resolution.
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  Perhaps how we're approaching it is perhaps leading to this endless vicious cycle.
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  There's a deeper understanding of what one is needing and wanting.
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  I might miss it.
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  They're both using protective strategies that are hurting the other.
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  They're actually having difficulty talking about the deeper vulnerability, showing the
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  underbelly, some of the scariest work I've ever done.
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  It's what can move mountains, so to speak.
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  Typically, we're in a better position to be available for connection.
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  Hey, everybody.
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  Welcome back to another episode of the Libido Lounge.
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  I'm your host, Doctor.
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  Diane.
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  And as always, we have another great guest today.
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  And this one, this particular guest, doctor Jessica Higgins, heard from last week.
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  If you've not watched that episode, I definitely recommend going and working and
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  watching it.
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  We talked a lot about with criticism, its impacts in outside of the bedroom, how to
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  recognize if you're being overly critical, how to work with the quote unquote no that people
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  bring up in relationship to work with it in a way that is helpful to the relationship and not
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  harmful.
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  So that was all in episode one.
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  I introduced doctor Jessica there too as the host of the Empowered Relationship Podcast and
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  somebody that really does so much in her own work to help couples navigate the challenges of
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  long lasting intimacy more gracefully.
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  So we're talking about conflict today.
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  So first of all, welcome back to the lounge, Doctor.
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  Jessica.
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  Thank you.
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  Thank you for having me.
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  Yeah.
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  My pleasure.
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  And now that we're talking about conflict, I think one of the things that we hear so many
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  couples say when it comes to conflict is, well, we just had a communication breakdown.
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  And so oftentimes, this is what's said.
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  And and so my curiosity is, like, how often do you find that that's the reason behind conflict
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  as a communication breakdown?
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  Or is that just something that we say to, in some ways, just label it, but maybe prevent us
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  from going deeper as to what's actually needing repair in the relationship?
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  Great question.
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  I do think that it makes sense that people would label it as a communication issue because
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  people are attempting to talk through something and not feeling resolution.
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  So it makes sense that that's where they're feeling stuck.
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  And when I look at communication, oftentimes we are able to articulate and we're able to listen
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  to content.
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  Perhaps how we're approaching it is perhaps leading to this endless vicious cycle.
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  And what I would say that there's a deeper understanding of what one is needing and
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  wanting.
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  Like sometimes I might describe a lot in hopes that my husband will be able to understand the
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  thing that's hurting.
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  And then we talked about this a little bit last time.
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  And also when I'm listening to my husband, I can listen to the content.
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  But if I'm not listening to you, how come this matters?
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  What is the kind of juice for him?
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  How this is meaningful?
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  What matters to him?
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  I might miss it.
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  There's times where he will describe things in ways that I'm like, I would never articulate it
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  that way.
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  And if I'm feeling any level of threat, I might actually take offense to that.
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  And then my need to protect myself even without awareness, I might respond back.
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  So oftentimes in a disconnect cycle where couples are having a hard time communicating,
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  they're both using protective strategies that are hurting the other, and they're actually
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  having difficulty talking about the deeper vulnerability, showing the underbelly, and
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  having those vulnerable conversations where they're really understanding.
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  Difficult to do, sometimes some of the scariest work I've ever done, and also it's what can
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  move mountains, so to speak.
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  So the solution, one of the solutions that I'm hearing is the way we listen.
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  So it sounds like what you're saying in part is it's not about just listening to the words,
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  it's about listening for what's underneath the words.
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  What are they really saying?
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  How are they really feeling?
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  And so is there from a standpoint of, like, solutions and strategies, is there more you can
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  say on how we listen in order to help people break this vicious cycle?
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  Yes.
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  I will say that you're asking a question about the harder of the two.
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  Okay.
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, I'm happy to answer.
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  I'm just saying for listeners who are thinking about their relationship, I find it a bit of an
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  advanced move to hold on to myself, stay regulated in a heated discussion.
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  And if I can listen to my partner, particularly if he's being critical.
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  So I'll give you a scenario just that it's not So it's easier to listen when it's not about
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  me, right?
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  If he's talking about a work thing and he's venting a bit, I'm listening, I might
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  understand all the facts and the content of what he's saying, but I'm still a little bit of
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  like, okay, not feeling my empathy kick in yet.
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  And then if I get curious and try to understand if those things were true for me and I was in
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  that situation, I was listening, this was a real example, I was like, Oh, I wouldn't feel
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  supported.
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  So I asked him, Oh, is this one of the things that comes up for me?
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  If it were me, I wouldn't feel supported.
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  Is that right?
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  And he's like, Yes.
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  Then when he told me that he wasn't feeling supported, I felt myself lean in and feel that
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  empathy of like, Oh, this is why it matters to him.
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  Easier when it's not about me.
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  Right?
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  So if that's why I'm saying it's a little bit of a ninja move or a more advanced move.
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  So if he's talking about me, it's still possible, but harder to do that he's perhaps
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  got issue with me or criticizing me.
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  If I can stay grounded or at least have a part of me that's grounded, I might say, okay.
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  There's a part of me that's getting defensive, but there's a part of me that can actually just
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  stay grounded.
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  This matters to him.
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  He's got strong feelings.
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  Let me be interested in that.
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  So it's almost as if I'm like watching him project something on the screen and I'm
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  watching it go by and he's painting a picture for me.
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  He's giving me a story.
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  And I don't have to actually agree with the story, but if I can just say, okay, so given
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  all of that he's shared, given all of that, what's that like for him?
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  And if I can stay interested, then I'm more leaning in of like, oh, he's wanting to feel,
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  you know, don't have an example right now, heard and seen about something, then my empathy
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  kicks in.
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  We don't need to agree on the facts, but if I can understand why it matters, then I'm able to
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  lean in and respond to him and his emotion, and that's gonna get us into more connection.
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  Yeah.
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  I hear you.
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  I hear you on the difference and what is easier versus intro Are there any steps in how to do
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  this well that you want to share with us?
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  Well, I would say starting with the self.
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  So when we are noticing a pain point or I've got a bone to pick with you, right, That
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  depending on the goodwill in the bank, we could just initiate and start that conversation.
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  Typically, we can start it with a little bit more intentionality, we've got space, nobody's
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  got a meeting approaching, We're kind of rested, fed, those type of things.
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  And if I can take some time to do some prep work, asking some questions around, again, what
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  comes up for me?
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  The deeper emotion, why this matters.
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  Again, if I posed that question last time we met in the previous interview, if my husband
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  did the thing I wanted him to do or if he didn't do what I don't want him to do, what
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  would that allow me to feel?
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  What would I be experiencing?
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  Then I have a little bit more visibility and illumination on the things that matter and I
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  can root around.
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  And usually, even for myself that I'm in this field, support other people, I walk the talk,
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  it's still I have to slow down access.
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  So once I get to a sense of resonance of like, Oh, this is the juicy part, and it's usually
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  scary.
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  It's the thing I don't want to say, feels maybe unlovable or unattractive or insecure.
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  And if I can show him and lead the conversation and send that signal, it's usually pretty
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  concise.
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  You know, we could say, Okay, here's some facts to orient when X, Y, and Z, I felt this or this
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  is what came up for me.
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  And I'm showing him, he's likely going to respond to the thing that I actually am wanting
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  him to see versus what we typically do is we do a whole monologue and we get into the facts and
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  then we go back and forth on trying to recreate reality and the facts.
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  That's why people say it's a communication thing because we don't agree.
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  We don't have consensus.
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  Truth is we never will.
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  We have different perspectives.
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  We come from different backgrounds.
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  We're not to have the same perspective.
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  So trying to get consensus is an endless journey that won't result to the thing that
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  people typically are yearning for.
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  What about the rejection cycle?
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  So taking this to the bedroom, there's this vicious cycle that I see so many couples get
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  into, which is one person initiates a lot and is getting turned down a lot, and so they
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  basically stop initiating.
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  And then the person that was turning them down, they're already feeling no desire for whatever
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  root causes are driving that, but now they're feeling oftentimes a sense of guilt on top of
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  it.
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  And so there's this, you know, kind of bidirectional for different reason level of
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  rejection.
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  So it's a little bit of a vicious cycle and a loop that gets created.
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  Do you see any ways that are just like the common ways that people begin to break this
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  loop?
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  There's so much to be said around this.
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  So you're asking specifically about the rejection or are you asking also about how to
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  break the loop?
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  I'm asking, my primary question was how to break the loop, but I think talking about both
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  are valid, so we can I go to both wanna take a quick break from our episode to say that if you
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  are finding that in your long term relationships, things are just not as
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  passionate, hot, or that you simply feel overwhelmed or do not have time to prioritize
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  sex, you are not alone?
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  It is so common that people start experiencing erectile dysfunction, vaginal dryness, boredom,
• 11:04
  just a lack of communication or just a sheer not prioritizing intimacy, their love life, and
• 11:11
  more.
• 11:12
  That's exactly why I created my Hot Monogamy Society where couples or individuals come to
• 11:19
  learn more about how to bring passion and aliveness back into their relationship.
• 11:24
  I want you to think about what you want your relationship to look like in the next decade or
• 11:30
  two or three.
• 11:32
  If you still make the same choices that you are making today in your relationship, are you
• 11:39
  going to reach those goals?
• 11:41
  If not, if you need support, that is what my society is for.
• 11:46
  You'll find links about how to join in the show notes.
• 11:49
  It is completely private, and you can join as a couple or as an individual to bring information
• 11:56
  back into your relationship, all found below in the show notes.
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  Now, let's get back to our episode.
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  Helpful when there's an opportunity to, in a grounded way, have a heart to heart and talk
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  about pleasure, talk about what the intimacy, how that helps us as a couple, what it means
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  and the significance to each person, if we're talking about a monogamous relationship with
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  two people, then we're expanding the frame of the intimacy and, again, the meaning around it.
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  And partners typically have things that moves that they make, right?
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  Whether or not it's to initiate or how people do sex, like there tends to be a script around,
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  well, this works, we do the thing that works, and there's a little bit of We all want to
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  conserve energy as humans and do automate or conserve energy to do things, but that can not
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  be so helpful.
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  So when you're talking about this low desire, high desire, if we're going to speak in those
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  terms, if we can back up and look at, Okay, we want to be in service of pleasure and
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  connection and intimacy if there's a yes to that.
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  Right?
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  So there might be other things that are if there's been a previous betrayal or, you know,
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  there might be obstacles or blocks that might interfere with that.
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  But if both parties are like, Yes, we want to prioritize this or have space for this and we
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  want to be able to access this, sometimes the way in which a partner might initiate the
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  proposal sounds like, Oh, I want to have sex.
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  I want to have intercourse.
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  It doesn't sound like, Oh, there's a lot of opportunity if I talk about responsiveness,
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  like for me to just be in my body and feel pleasure, and then my desire arousal might
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  emerge.
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  Like, There's certain things that we have associated with the initiation.
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  So I think starting there can build something that would be a workable thing for both people
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  that maybe many things are on the table.
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  And it's not about intercourse or each person responsible for their own orgasm, but we could
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  still be in a place of shared pleasure depending on where we're at in any given time.
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  So I think that if we can kind of give more opportunity and range for what would feel good.
• 14:35
  And again, depending on if there's postpartum, there can be a lot of things that would
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  interrupt being able to access.
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  But if we can take a little bit of a step back when we're not approaching sex and just have a
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  bit more of an open conversation, bigger picture, I think that can be a good starting
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  place.
• 14:55
  Yeah, I really agree.
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  I've talked a lot about that in my own work too around sex doesn't always have to be penis and
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  vagina, Right?
• 15:02
  Yeah.
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  Intimacy can look a lot different than just that and broadening that.
• 15:06
  So I think that's really great advice.
• 15:08
  Before I ask you my next question, I do want to make sure everybody is very aware of one of my
• 15:14
  favorite sayings, which is couples that pump together stay together.
• 15:19
  And this is to just name that when we're talking about sex and intimacy, we're talking
• 15:25
  about so many different root causes oftentimes that stop the train for couples.
• 15:30
  And one thing, even when we're talking about broadening what intimacy looks like, one thing
• 15:37
  can just be keeping all of our parts healthy together.
• 15:40
  So one of the things that I've seen from the lady pump, which is this vulvar covering or
• 15:45
  this clitoral piece, and it goes into this component, which actually provides this vacuum
• 15:52
  type of mechanism, is that it brings more blood to the tissue, and I've seen a lot of changes
• 15:59
  and improvements with sensation.
• 16:02
  So sometimes with age, like, just the it just doesn't feel the same way as it used to, and
• 16:07
  the pumps are one way of getting the sensation back.
• 16:10
  Also works great for men.
• 16:12
  There's cylinders of different sizes.
• 16:15
  The size does matter.
• 16:16
  There's several sizes so you can get your fit exactly right.
• 16:20
  This really makes a difference with improving erection quality, performance.
• 16:25
  But even if everything is great there, it's just a great way of keeping these parts healthy
• 16:29
  for life so you can enjoy intimacy.
• 16:31
  So make sure you check for the links and discount codes in the show notes below.
• 16:36
  This is from the company Doctor.
• 16:37
  Joel Kaplan.
• 16:38
  Now, the next question I have for you is around expectations.
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  So my question is, do you see any, and it's okay if you don't, but do you see any
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  expectations about sex that people commonly bring into long term relationships and just
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  don't ever name them?
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  Do you see this happen much?
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  Of course.
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  I mean, how could we I'm almost like, how could we not?
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  We grow up in a world where we've gotten a lot of messaging around sex and intimacy, whether
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  or not it's from media, friends, family, like, there's so many messages.
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  I think it depends on people's culture and also the norms and also how much people have tried
• 17:27
  to make what's unconscious conscious, like looking at these things, our first sexual
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  experiences.
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  There's a lot of history that typically will precede a long term adult intimate
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  relationship.
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  Some people come into, like, if I'm thinking of a male partner, they might feel some level of
• 17:49
  responsibility or ego boost from pleasing their partner or a female partner that feels somehow,
• 17:59
  you know, this seems a little less popular, but I still hear clients talk about feeling like
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  it's a duty or a chore or keep my man happy or, you know, these type of things.
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  And so, yes, we could talk probably for hours about expectations.
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  So do you have any one or two that you could name that tend to cause the most damage?
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  Have you seen that you can distill it down to that?
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  Well, I think the responsibility, I would say two, which would be that who we're assigning
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  responsibility to.
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  So if I'm thinking my partner is responsible for getting me aroused, that can be a total
• 18:45
  hang up issue or can lead to a lot of challenges or if I approach intimate space that
• 18:53
  I'm responsible for directing the show or leading the show in a particular way.
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  I I think that can be tricky for sure.
• 19:04
  I agree.
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  Such great advice.
• 19:06
  My final question for you before we let you go and before we tell people about your great gift
• 19:11
  that you have for everybody is that if a listener does one thing tonight to improve
• 19:18
  their relationship, not a program, just one thing, what should it be?
• 19:22
  Yeah.
• 19:23
  I'm gonna just distill it down to something so super basic, But I would say take some time to
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  just breathe and locate your body and feel sensation, whether or not it's I can look
• 19:40
  outside and see different colors or I can feel the temperature of the air on my skin or what
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  kind of muscle tension can I, like, notice and maybe just stretch and release, all of the five
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  senses and just giving an opportunity to just drop into the present moment and feel oneself?
• 20:00
  And from there, typically, we're in a better position to be available for connection.
• 20:07
  Amazing.
• 20:07
  And we are gonna have a link to your podcast so people can continue to learn from you through
• 20:13
  that in the show notes as well as how to get ahold of you.
• 20:17
  But tell us if you would about your free gift you're giving everybody.
• 20:21
  Yeah.
• 20:22
  Well, it relates to our conversation today, but I think it related more to our conversation
• 20:27
  last time.
• 20:28
  But it's a guide to help people look at how to shift out of the critical tendency.
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  We talked about protective moves and conflict and oftentimes we're not even aware.
• 20:38
  One of those common protective moves is being critical.
• 20:42
  And so this guide really helps access the deeper need or the deeper longing or the pain
• 20:48
  that we're wanting our partner to see, that vulnerable part.
• 20:51
  And it gives language and scenarios to workshop this, to reverse engineer what a common
• 20:56
  tendency is and how we might set this up so that our partner is able to respond to what
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  really matters.
• 21:02
  Perfect.
• 21:03
  And we will have that, like I said, in the show notes.
• 21:05
  Everybody, I wanna thank you so much for listening.
• 21:08
  And remember, like always, the end of every calendar year, we invite the guests that has
• 21:15
  had the most likes, shares, downloads to the Libido Lounge to do a deep dive and a deeper
• 21:22
  discussion with them.
• 21:23
  So please make sure you make comments, you share this with your friends and loved ones,
• 21:28
  and we hopefully will get to invite doctor Jessica back at the end of the year.
• 21:32
  So thank you again, doctor Jessica, for being here with us on the lounge.
• 21:36
  It is a pleasure, and I will see all of you again really soon.
• 21:44
  Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge.
• 21:46
  Please don't keep me a secret.
• 21:47
  Please share this with your friends.
• 21:49
  You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.