Latest / Flow State Business / Legal Protection - Going Legit with Your Hustle with Sarah Kornblet Waldbuesser

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Legal Protection - Going Legit with Your Hustle with Sarah Kornblet Waldbuesser · Flow State Business

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hi, my loves.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: My name is Ruby Lee, entrepreneur, digital nomad, croissant, obsessed, free spirit and founder of the earn your hustle movement.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: And this is the earn your hustle podcast here.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: You'll be so motivated to start that business.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: You've always wanted to grow it unapologetically and go all in earning powerfully with ease and grace.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited that you're here and listening in, and I'm so grateful that you made it so welcome to the own, your hustle way of life, full of freedom, a dose of woo and plenty of random tangent laughs.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Along the way, you know, I started my company working nine to five, too.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: As a recruiter, I was working for a ventures based business in the urban cool city of Melbourne Australia.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: And today I'm traveling the world, young family and toe working with the most amazing humans, ready to build a career in life by design strapping.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: My love you are about to binge on all of the most incredible guests that I bring onto these podcasts, and guess what?
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: They started their businesses through purpose and calling mostly while still working a day job.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Let me also share this.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I called my company own your hustle.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: As a reminder for us daily, that we get to love our soul led hustle or now decisions to grow big, stop playing small, create with joy, take the risk, say yes to adventure and from time to time be okay with those meltdown moments.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: These episodes are filled with joy and strategy, spirituality and business, tactical tapes, big picture concepts, musings.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: And of course some of that Ruby colored energy.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: So if you're ready, I'm ready.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Let's get started everybody.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I am sorry, thrilled to introduce you to my attorney because it's one of the biggest questions I get in coaching programs.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: And those of you that will work with me privately freebie, who is your attorney?
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Who do you work with with all things, contracts and trademarks.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: And sir, I decided to bring Sarah onto the podcast.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I am so excited to have you here.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Sarah is the founder of destination legal.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: So welcome to the podcast, Sarah, thank you so much for having me reviews.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: So happy to be here.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I've got so many questions for you today.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Some mainly, you know, selfishly for me and I'm sure all of you will find it really useful, but also just so interested to ask you questions from my community and all that good stuff around, you know, how to set up particularly a coaching business in a way that you feel, you know, really safe and protected from a legal standpoint.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: But first let's talk a little bit about you and how you became an attorney.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Walk us through your journey.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: We love the Korea story here on the, your hustle podcast.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: And mine has definitely not been a straight road that's for sure.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I have had this huge
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Travel bug.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Um, and I knew I wanted flexibility in whatever career I chose and when I was in college, you know, that was I'm aging myself, but that was back in the late nineties, early two thousands when it was still kind of normal to just have a job for 40 or 50 years and retire.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: It's not so much that way now, but I couldn't see myself doing anything for that long.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And so when I thought about law school, it kind of seems like, you know, what, what can go wrong?
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of flexibility there.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I've always wanted to help people and I love school.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: So it just kind of felt like a natural step.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: There aren't attorneys in my family or, you know, anything like that.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: It just sort of felt like the right path.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Um, and I quickly realized after law school, while I was working in a midsize firm in Washington, DC, that I didn't want to be a lawyer or so I thought, and what I realized now is that I didn't want to be a partner in a law firm in an office billing 15 minute increments for 80 hours a week.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: It just, that did not sound appealing to me at all.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Um, so I started looking around for other careers, other options.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I thought about the peace Corps.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I really was interested in helping, um, women internationally.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: And so I kind of stumbled into, um, public health and global public health and international legal issues around disease surveillance.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: It's this really interesting area.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Um, and I ended up working for a think tank and a university in DC.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And um, by all intents and purposes, I had my dream job because I was traveling.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I was helping people, but yet I was still supremely unhappy.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I was stuck in a windowless office for eight months of the year, even if I was getting to travel, um, to Africa and the middle East and Asia, it was still traveling for work.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: It was still traveling, you know, not under my own, um, you know, not being able to do really what I wanted to do.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure like so many of us and so many listeners, I just had a moment where I was just like this, isn't it.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not happy.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: What can I do?
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: And you know, that's when the soul searching comes in because I had amazing friends, I had, you know, have great family and all this stuff.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And it was through Googling things like work while you travel, travel, while you work that I stumbled upon online business.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: And this was about eight years ago, I guess when things were really starting in terms of like the laptop lifestyle.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: And I found these two guys who had a podcast called the tropical MBA and I would listen to it every day to and from work.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: And basically they talked about building businesses online that you can run from your laptop.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And a couple months into that, they were offering a two week course on an Island in the Philippines.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: And so I was like, this is it.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: This is what, you know, this is the next step for me.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I quit my job.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: I cashed in my 401k and I went to the Philippines for two weeks to learn how to start an online business.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: And during that time I started my first legal business called the bootstrap lawyer.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: And it only lasted for six months.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Um, but that was kind of the initial iteration of what later became destination legal.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Sarah, I have the biggest smile on my face.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Like it's like a look of all and just resonance, you know, I'm like, Oh my gosh, you go, girl, you just quit your job.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: And we went to the Philippines.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: That is amazing.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, I, it didn't, it's not, it wasn't all sunny and roses, you know, four months later I was back living with my parents.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I wasn't making any money.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was gonna do.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Um, they wanted me to get a real job.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: And so I, I placated them.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: I started applying, but on the side I was still building, um, my business and I started doing some consulting and about six to seven months after being there, um, I decided that if I wanted to have a business and travel with digital nomads, I needed to go and be around them.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: So I saved up enough and I knew I had some income coming in from consulting and I bought a one way ticket to Thailand.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Gosh.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Is it, so is this the start of your year and a half of B being a digital nomad?
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: And was this around the same time that you started destination league?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: No.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Interestingly, I really thought being an attorney online for a while and there were a couple of reasons for that one was I didn't like being a lawyer at a firm.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: So I was like, how could I possibly enjoy it for myself?
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Secondly, this was back in 2014 or so and running a virtual law firm where you're offering legal services online was still very new.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: There were only a handful of attorneys doing it.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: You know, there's obviously legal issues around how you practice law and can you work, you know, across States in the U S and things like that.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: And so people were really in the midst of figuring it out and I was a bit intimidated by it.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: So during that year and a half, I actually ran a drop ship furniture store.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I know I worked, I did some, uh, marketing and stuff for a fair trade organization that was based in Thailand.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Um, but throughout this whole time, you know, I met a bunch amazing entrepreneurs and people with online businesses and they were all asking me legal questions.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: They were asking for my help.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: So finally, I started dipping the toe in the water of what that might look like.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Um, and eventually I gave in and, you know, was introduced to the coaching world and I saw an area that really needed my help.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: And I really enjoyed working with coaches and business owners, helping them get protected.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: And so that's kind of how I stumbled into what is now destination legal.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: And can I just say everyone listening, just check out Sarah's website in the show notes below, because what I love about your business and before I hired you, I was looking around for someone like you, but it was very hard to find you Sarah.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: And then when I did, it was so amazing.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Um, but the very first thing you see is literally just like protect your passion, which is obviously your trademark.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: And it's like, this is legal made easy for your online business.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: I could have fallen off my seat when I saw that.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Like, and then I started scrolling.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: It's like, if you're a coach, if you're a business owner, if you have courses, if you have a membership site, I'm like, yes, that's me.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I was so excited.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: So of course we had to get in touch and hire you.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: But one of the things that I wanted to ask so many questions is what do you love most about working with online coaches?
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: It really does seem to be such a big part of what you do, or is it all that you do?
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Is it mostly coaches that you work with?
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: It is mostly coaches.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: You know, I do.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Um, especially in terms of trademarks, I work with some eCommerce brands and some other types of online business owners.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Um, but I would say coaches and then course creators are probably my main, uh, customer base.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: And I really love coaches.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I love the coaching world.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I've always had coaches.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's such an amazing, um, ecosystem that has developed, you know, it's, it's small, but it's big.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: And what I saw, so as a side note is I actually, um, in between the furniture store and really diving into this, I looked into being a health coach myself because I was just like, I want to help people.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: And, you know, I quickly realized I actually didn't want to do that.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: But through that, I found so many coaches, um, that turned into clients and people that needed help.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, protect your passion is my passion.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And I really feel so strongly about helping coaches and women protect themselves because legal is such a scary piece for so many people, but it's so important.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: You cannot build a successful business without a strong legal foundation.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: And I think it stops a lot of people from moving forward and it doesn't need to, it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be, you know, scary, legal, ease, right.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I want it to be legal.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: And so the more people I met and the more help I was able to give them and see how it made them feel more confident and supported and able to really grow, you know, like that's the best feeling for me.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: So I, you, I think, you know, this maybe, maybe you do or don't, but two years ago I actually had my digital course copied and it was really the catalyst that brought me to you to find you.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: And it was a big wake up call that I really needed to protect my work and hire an attorney.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: But I had really no idea of the importance of IP up until then.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that really made me feel so confident, I think it was more of a, it's like an inner confidence that I had my work protected after working with you and looking at trademarks and all those sorts of things.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you in your opinion, when do you think we should start really looking at protecting our work?
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: How early on in the journey typically, what do you see with your client base?
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: So I think that, that's a great question.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: And it's an interesting answer because my initial thought is it's not right away, right?
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: It's not necessarily one of the things trademark copyright that you need to think about at the very beginning, but then yet I just, um, someone purchased a trademark today and they haven't even launched yet.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: And so I think it, it really is an individual decision.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: It's so important because it's really, especially with trademarking, it's the only way to own your brand, to own your name, um, to have this business asset and to make sure that nobody else can come in and use it.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: So with the trademark, you own it and you now own your hustle, right?
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: That's yours, nobody in the podcast yeah.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Can come in and have anything similar.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, you can speak to it.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Like doesn't that make you feel so confident and powerful, so confident.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: And you know, the reason why I wanted to trademark on your hustle is because I was on LinkedIn and I searched my hashtag to see what's going on, who was tagging me and whatnot.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And I saw this lady and I think, you know, this, I saw this lady who had written a book somewhere in Africa called earn your hustle.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And my heart just sank.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Sarah was like, Oh no, there's a book written.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And I was going to write a book anyway, it's on my, on my list of things to do one day.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And I just remember writing to you, or maybe Michael wrote to you saying, I think we need to start trademarking.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: That was like, the moment we were like, let's do this.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: That's the gut test.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: So when you, you know your question, when should you think about it?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And you know, it, isn't your one month in your six months in your five years in the question you need to ask yourself is exactly what happened to you.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: If somebody came in tomorrow and sent you a cease and desist letter saying you had to stop using your name, program, name, course, name, retreat, name, whatever.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Did you get that gut punch?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Would your stomach sink?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: If the answer is yes, it's probably time to trademark.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: If you're like, Oh, well it's okay.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I just rebrand.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: It's not a big deal then.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe not.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: But if you do get that gut feeling of like, I don't, I would not want to lose this, then it's time to really own it because that's the only security that you have.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that definitely was the feeling just a real sinking around, wow.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I've built this brand.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: And it was only really maybe like 12 to 18 months old, but enough that I showed up every single day using the hashtag using own your hustle.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: And to think that that could have been taken away from me.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: So yes, everybody do the gut tests and then, and then it's addicting, right?
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: You guys can't stop.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I know we have so many, you know, trademarks that are currently in the works or in the process of being approved.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: So that's actually a question that I know so many of my listeners wanting to know, like how long does it take to trademark and what is the expected timeframe generally and how do you even get started?
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Well, it really varies.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: We can talk about yours or we can not.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: That's up to you.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about us.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: So a few of yours have sailed through really wonderfully.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Um, and that is done in about if you get a trademark registered within seven to 12 months, you're doing really well.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: And so, uh, with own your hustle and Ruby, we like those, those really didn't have many issues.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: And now we have one that is kind of taking longer and it's, it's gonna be more of a drawn out process.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: And it's really hard to say at the beginning, how it's gonna play out because U S PTO in the U S is filled with attorneys all that have individual minds.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: So it really is dependent on which attorney again and what they think, and if there's other conflicting marks or if there's anything close.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Um, and so if you do get an office action or you get questions from the attorney, it can definitely draw out the process.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: So I would say the quickest one I've gotten through has been six months and I've had others that were going on a year and a half, and we're still having issues.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: So, um, it really does vary.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And, you know, to get started, talk to an attorney, so trademarks, well, it is something you can try by yourself.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I've had so many people try and then they mess something up and they come to me and then it ends up costing them more than if they had just started with an attorney.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: So while there's some things that you can do on your own, this is one of those things that you wouldn't do your own root canal.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't perform surgery on yourself.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Like there's a reason that lawyers go to law school, we're trained in this.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: So, um, if you're interested, like the first step is just do the gut test and if you're ready, then the next step is to talk to an attorney and then they really will help you through the process.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: And the other nice thing about that, is it totally hands off for you?
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I tell you what I need, we might work on your website or preparing things for the application, but otherwise it's completely hands-off and you know, that it's being taken care of.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I am so happy.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: You're looking after it for me, just like, that is the last thing that I want to be doing in terms of like, you know, even just trying to translate what, you know, illegal offices asking for.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: So yes.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: And I'm, I'm happy to be really transparent because it's the one I think that's really taking some time is LinkedIn, the course that I'm doing around LinkedIn.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: And I found it so interesting because this wasn't even a thought, you know, before I had worked with you, Sarah, I thought, Oh, I'll do a course.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: And I'll call it LinkedIn brand boss.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And it was just like, well, that's just what it's called.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: And then Sarah said to me, you know, LinkedIn is not something, you know, it's like their trademark, it's their company.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: And I know that there are a lot of listeners here today.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Who've got courses like Instagram made easy, you know, it's like, I'm first on Facebook and it's using all, you know, different brand names within our courses.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: So what are some things that we can really think about when, when naming our courses to really get on the front foot around, you know, trademarks and IP.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: That's such a good question.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: And I think the number one lesson and take away here is that you cannot, you should really try to avoid using another company's trademark because they can come after you for that.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: So if, if someone, um, you know, Instagram made easy and they're, let's say they're amazing, and they're making six figures a year, you know, multi-six figures millions, Instagram could come after them for trademark infringement and actually get some of those profits.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I know a lot of us, there's a lot of people in the online business world and people think, well, they won't come after me.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: And you just never know.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: And so if you can try not to use a trademark name in the actual course name, you can use it in your tagline.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: You can use it in your branding.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: If you go on your sales page, if you go to any of the platforms, there's usually a section on IP and intellectual property, and they tell you what you can do.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: So, you know, LinkedIn will say, you can use the lane LinkedIn, but you can't use it in your domain or you can't use it in XYZ places.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: So, um, you know, in the trademark world, the more unique, the name, the better.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And so that is, um, something to consider.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Like, I think it's so amazing that we were able to get on your hustle because it is such an awesome phrase.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Like when I first heard that from you guys, I was like, Oh my God, I can't imagine that's still available.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: And it was, and we went after it so quickly, the thing is it's, it can be a race to the trademark office.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: So, you know, if we filed on Monday, but somebody else had filed on Sunday, us PTO would process their entire application first.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: So that date that you filed the application really does, um, make a difference.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: So the more, the better, yeah, I was thrilled.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I was,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: We, I think we drank to that.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: We would like, yeah,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: As we pulled some Prosecco, we were like, yeah,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: It felt, it felt like almost the it's like the same feeling of getting handed the keys to your house.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: It's like, you own this now.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Like this is yours.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: And it was, Oh my gosh.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: It was amazing.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Switching gears a little bit.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: So recently you helped me a lot with, um, a client exit and this was in my contract, of course, you know, just amazing.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: You guys have got to check out destination legal and it was actually so comforting to have you there because a client exit is never easy.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: There's, you know, contracts and there's, you know, certain, you know, perhaps like payments that are still outstanding and not to even mention the awkwardness that both parties go through when you are working with coaches who are exiting clients, mid-contract, you know, one of the things that I have to say in even emailing you and getting your help and support and advice was just a knowing that, okay, like contracts are there to really help us as coaches rather than second guessing out every action, what to do, what to say.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: So what are some things that, you know, you can say to coaches who are just starting out around the importance of having contracts, especially to do with exiting clients or, you know, payments that are still outstanding, mid coaching relationship.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Such a good question.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: And I would say the way, you know, it happened for you was an actual, really nice scenario.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I've seen others that have not ended so well.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: So, um, you know, contracts, as you said, like they are there to protect you, right?
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: So contracts are like insurance, car insurance, health insurance.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: You don't want to need it, but you are very glad that you have it.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: If you do, you know, with legal, it really is a matter of if not, when, like, if you're in business long enough and you're growing a business, you're going to run into this issue.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: You're gonna run into legal issues without a contract.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: You have nothing to refer to.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: You have nothing to fall back on.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: You know, contracts are there to protect both parties.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: They're there to, you know, ensure that the boundaries are there.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: And the communication is, and you know, what, if there is a late payment, what if they missed a session?
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: What if they want to leave?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: So the contract really provides that.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: And then you have something that you can refer to.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: If you don't have that, then you know, you're really at the mercy of the client almost, you might lose sales, you might lose, um, you know, you might lose that client.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: And so there just a lot of issues that can pop up if you don't have that in place.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: You must've heard and seen so many stories
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Approaching industry.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I'm sure.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Just with like what to do, but I had a client yesterday say to me, listen, I've got a client of mine who just hasn't been booking in calls and our time is coming to an end.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: What would you do?
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: And I said to her, do you have a contract?
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And she's like, I don't.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: So that's the, that's the feeling of being at the mercy of the client who yes, exactly.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Have any parameters to play within.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Like there was sort of like an agreement based on the sales page, but it wasn't actually an agreement.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: So what are you thoughts on copying and pasting from the internet and just sending it to someone sort of like a makeshift contract.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of you listeners do this.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: And it's like, Oh yeah, I would just giggle, like what, you know, a standard agreement looks like, and then just put my logo on it.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: What am I about?
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I have thoughts on that.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: So don't do it.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: It's not a good idea.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: And there are, there are many reasons for this.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: So the number one reason is that you don't know what you don't know.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: So the most, you know, most people don't know what needs to be in a contract.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: And if they're Googling, they might see something that looks okay, but they're not going to know if it really is going to fit their business.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And they're not going to know if it has the right clauses, if it really is there.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: And if it's going to protect him and sometimes it can make things worse having a contract that isn't right, or isn't valid.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: And do you think that it is, so it is just dangerous to do that?
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Um, B because then you're walking around knowing that you ask the Google for help.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: And, uh, you're not going to have that sense of, of confidence.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Had you purchased a template from an attorney or, you know, that it's written by someone that knows your industry.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: That's the other big thing.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Um, but also copying things like that from the internet is, is copyright infringement, right?
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So anytime you're copying something, taking something that somebody else has written, it's copyright infringement, that person could come after you.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: So for example, my te my contract templates all have, you know, you get one license to use this, you can not share it.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Um, and if someone, if I find out that, you know, that person was sharing or something else, then there can be legal ramifications to that.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So, um, it's really just not a good idea.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: And fortunately, these days there are attorneys, there are, you know, companies like destination legal, where you can get a coaching contract for a couple of hundred bucks, right?
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: It's not going to cost you$5,000 to pay a big law firm.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: This can be a couple hundred dollars that can save you literally tens of thousands, potentially your entire business.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: So it's one of those things just to, just to get it done and check it off your list and, and know that you did it the right way, right?
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: You want to build your business on, on a strong foundation.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for just setting the record straight on that, Sarah, because it's one of those topics that you kind of think, no one's ever going to notice.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I'm just a small coaching practice.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I want to look bigger than what I am.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: So I'll just, you know, doctor something together.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: So I think that is like this almost like the us kicking that we needed to.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: And you know, if people do it, I've had people come to me, lots of them admitting that, like I hobbled this together.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: It's been on my list to get this done.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Like, please help.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: You know, we're all doing the best we can, but, but once you have the knowledge and you know, what needs to be done, you'll feel so much better.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I've had people just say like, Oh my gosh, I just bought your template.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Like I can sleep better tonight.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Like I know that I am legally protected now.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Well, John, to what you guys, if you listening, this is the time don't do it, that you were meant to hear this.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Um, all right.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: So my last question is, you know, sort of shifting gears again, it's really around your business model.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I love it as a business coach and studying how entrepreneurs really run the online businesses.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Most of your business is really, you know, almost passive, I would say, like you can purchase templates and contracts and obviously speak to you about trademarking an IP.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: But I know that we actually have a lot of lawyers that listen in as well, same as you wanting to get out of the billing and the consulting and being in like the nine to nine lifestyle.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: How did you first begin to set up your, you know, almost like your passive income business, you know, and having the, these amazing contracts out there, I would love to learn, you know, just the basics of what you did to get started.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I think I was inspired by my environment because back when I was traveling as a nomad and I was with a lot of other service providers and people that were building businesses, and I was looking at the different models and you're right, I was very intentional.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: First of all, doing custom contracts for people all over the world all the time.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not interested in trading time for money, right.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: So I'm not interested in counting my hours and doing things like that.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And, you know, the, the other piece of that is wanting to help as many people as possible.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: If I'm, if I'm doing a custom contract, it's way more expensive, obviously than a template, and I want to make it affordable and it's kind of a win win there, cause you're right.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Once I write the templates, you know, I may update them occasionally, but contract law's been around for a long time.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: It's not changing.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: You know, we do updates for things like GDPR and privacy policies when we need to.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's a health coaching contract as a health coaching contract.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: So, um, you know, it was very intentional because I do love travel.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I love freedom.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I love flexibility.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: I knew back when I started this business, I wanted something that could run without me so that I could be with my kids when I had them and something that really has the potential to scale.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: And so a digital product, whether it is a course or, you know, things, a template, whatever it is, um, is really an interesting business model to have we're working on a course as well.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, I love the idea of just, of, of helping as many people be protected as possible.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Cause you're right.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Like, it's interesting that you say you had a hard time finding me because of course I know my own space, there are a good number of online attorneys out there.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Um, but I forget how big the internet is.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: And so I see them, but a lot of people don't and so the more I can help spread the word and teach the better.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So I remember going, okay, I need to find a cool lawyer who understands cool branding.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: And isn't just going to make my contract sound really super scary.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: And just like, you know, like when you read those contracts and it's just like, Oh my God, how am I supposed to say this to my clients?
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: But then the reason why I didn't find shoes, because I was just trying to Google and do my own research guys, you can ask if you're in the coaching industry ask.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: And so as soon as I started to ask, I mean, your name came up so many times, Sarah, it was just like, kind of Sarah goes there, it goes to Sarah.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: It's just like, okay, all right, you go to Sarah.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I love that so much.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: And I'm excited for your course.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: We have to talk about it after the book.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: It's called the legit coach.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: So stay tuned for that.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: That is amazing.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: That's such a good name.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I get the play on words.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, Sarah, do you have been so fun to interview and to ask all the questions that I'm sure some of you have wanted to ask you, your attorney, or your soon to be attorney, where can we best find you work with you and, you know, purchase your templates and amazing work that you put out there?
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Um, absolutely.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: So the, the legal shop is a destination legal.com and you can also find information about make your Mark, which is my trademark package on the website as well.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: You can find us nation legal on Facebook and Instagram.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Uh, and we're, we're here.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Just reach out email, send me a message.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm not a scary lawyer.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I promise one more question.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: So a lot of my clients are based out of the U S do your contracts carry over to other countries?
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Like how does that work?
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: So, you know, contract law, as I said, has been around for a while and fortunately Australia, Canada, the UK U S are all based in this common law system of law.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: And, you know, the same basics apply everywhere, uh, as with any, you know, template, especially even in the U S we have 50 different States here.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: So I can't guarantee that the template meets a hundred percent of law anywhere, just because there can be minor nuances to things.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: So I always say, if anyone has a question, absolutely have a local attorney in your jurisdiction, look it over, but they are customizable for countries around the world, there's directions on how to utilize them.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: And, you know, one of the important things is just knowing that these templates are for your industry and not just some random thing that you might find on legal zoom or things like that.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: And so I've never had anyone come back and say, this was an issue or didn't work or anything like that.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Um, but I always do include that, disclaimer, that if you have any questions about your own locality, that you should always talk to an attorney.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: They're amazing.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Sarah, you have been such an incredible guest and I'm so proud to be using destination legal.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: So I actually have an affiliate link below.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: So make sure you click on that.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Um, and I hope you guys found this episode super useful, be sure to tag both Sarah and I on Instagram.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: If you're listening to this and share it everywhere.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: And once again, Sarah, I so appreciate the work that you've done for Michael and I in our business.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: It just wouldn't be the same without you.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: It's been great chatting.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: [inaudible].