Latest / ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence / The Super CMO Show - Mahek Shah (#010)

Transcript

The Super CMO Show - Mahek Shah (#010) · ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, today if somebody has come and started searching for a trip to Fouquet, right?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that person is looking for the trip to Fouquet.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: As a flight uh partner, airline partner, I can target that person off site as well because I have the first party data of that audience.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's feasible through the ad tech solution that we have on our side.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be done through not only direct buys, but we can also enable programmatic buys on the ecosystem.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing can be replicated for hotels.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if the booking is already completed, but I know that this person has not done the stays booking with us, we can actually retarget the audience and target them wherever they are to uh can get them to consider hotels in forket in that case.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_05: Brilliant.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_05: So you pretty much are building your own ad tech solution, but you are having the plugins with the big tech uh you know pipes, and therefore you're able to provide a holistic view of how you can absolutely look at the look at look at the journey, whether whether the audience is a prospect or a customer.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_05: You can actually look at it holistically as well how you are approaching, and that's a very, very big change in the way media uh has to be thought through, and therefore, you're really saying that the future of media is about how you interestingly collaborate with multiple uh uh you know uh technology platforms and how you really uh integrate them.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: That seems to be something that uh that uh at least I'm picking up that as a very interesting uh perspective as far as how media will emerge in the future.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_05: This episode of the Super CM Moshto was made possible by the great folks at Moving Walls.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_05: Moving Walls provides a global technology platform built by out of form advertising experts automating the process of planning, buying, executing, and measuring out-of-form campaigns.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_05: Moving walls help meeting brands and agencies to move to audience-based planning, improve programs with automated proposals, and implement programmatic districts out of form and verify campaign performances.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_05: Moving walls helps measure, reach, and influence moving audiences across the world.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_05: For more information, log on to www.movingwalls.com.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_05: Hello everyone.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome to another edition of the Super CMR show.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_05: In this episode, I am talking to Mehak Shah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_05: Mehak Shah is the global head of media at Asia.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_05: I spoke to Mehak about how she has seen marketing change over the years and what are the skills marketers of today need to equip themselves with versus what was there a decade ago.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_05: I also asked her about her experience of working on the agency side and on the client side, and what are the differences she has had as an experience.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_05: I specifically asked her about the new emerging media landscape and the emergence of first party data and the monetization of first party data.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_05: I also had a conversation with her on the campaigns that she likes and the ones she's created and she's proud of.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_05: Over to my conversation with Mehek Shah.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_05: Hi Mehek, uh, thanks a lot for uh joining the Super CMO podcast and lovely having you as a guest today.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Swami, for inviting me over.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure for me to be here and have a discussion with you.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_05: So, Mehek, I just wanted to straightaway uh dive in into uh some of the aspects of your experience in marketing.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, I think you've got quite a long stint in the marketing world, and uh as you entered the marketing world to what you see today, uh, what are the changes that you have seen and uh how is it different from the time you saw to the time what you do today?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think a lot has changed.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, very interesting question as well.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, back when back then, when I started, um, it was a lot about offline.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: There were jargons like ATL, BTL, and everything.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: It has evolved a lot and it has changed so much that I think um the landscape of marketing is changing almost every day.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, what you know today was already history, and there's something new that you have to learn now.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I actually started off with a BTL agency where the focus was a lot around events, activations, creating system experiences and such.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um gradually, I think uh what I noticed was there's a lot of digital that came into picture.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I've seen the evolution of digital also, from just being microsites to display banners and how things have come along to programmatic today, now leveraging AI and trying to use the first-party data and do the targeting uh for the audiences with that.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And along the way, of course, a different experiential marketing that has also evolved, I think, from just being, say, a static out-of-home ad to digital billboards and now infusing it with the first party data and how things are.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it feels like a lifetime of things that I've seen.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you've seen much more than I have, but yes, there's that there has a lot has changed since then.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_05: How has been the uh you know the uh skills needed for marketing uh changed?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_05: For example, uh how did you how did you see the marketing department in a client's end uh way back, say uh you know, uh say a decade back, to what kind of structures uh do you see and skills do you see in the marketing teams today?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh there as well.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh there were a lot of fragmentation or fragmented approach that was taken to marketing back then, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like people would focus on just digital or they would just focus on offline or activations and such.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think skills-wise, uh it has changed now where people are more integrated in nature.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: They will look at things from top funnel to bottom of the funnel throughout, right?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think um today's marketer has to be abreast with what's happening, they have to know what's new, they have to be aware about the latest technology as well, so that they can bring everything together for the customer as an experience, right?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so I think uh the key thing is, and I think the buzzwords are already there.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: So data, digital, tech, and how you embrace that uh for the consumer, that's critical.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the skills that are essentially required.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think back then it was more specialist skill, but now it's more about you have to be jack of all traits, but at the same time, you need to know in depth also, so that the reliance on external agencies is probably less or not so much, right?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So internally, you have to be strong and aware yourself.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_05: So uh from the role that I see, uh Mehak, uh, you know, you uh you head the global media for Aerasia, right?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so uh not often do you see uh role like uh head of global media in a client's uh end because it was always at the agency's end.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_05: So uh how is the role of media within a client's uh end changed, and how do you see the role that you play within this organization where you run the whole media uh operations?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um I think my role has been slightly different.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when it comes to media, uh there are two prongs to what Erasia looks at and how you know I'm structured over here.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh in terms of the approach, we are looking at not just uh you know planning and buying media more strategically, uh, but also looking at uh monetizing the inventory that Erasia has.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a two-pronged approach where we uh you know buy as well as sell uh media inventories uh to our partners and advertisers and such.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's the uh that's the role that I play over here.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and additionally, what I look at is um look at uh getting more channel partners.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, if you've seen the way Erasia has also evolved, we have moved from just being an airline to an OTA platform where we are not only selling erasure uh flights but also other services when it comes to travel requirements for a consumer.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you can look at booking non-erasia flights, you can look at uh also your stays planning.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: So when you fly to a travel destination, then you want to book your hotels, uh your local transportation, so we have an erasure ride and such.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so integrating those channel partners into that ecosystem and providing them with visibility within the ecosystem.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think there is a buzzword for it, it's called retail media, but I uh when it comes to travel, it's more like providing that lower fural exposure also to such uh merchants and partners.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, okay.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so do you see uh clients increasingly uh you know, as somebody who's working with media closely, uh, do you see clients uh increasingly starting to monetize their assets and look at uh media as a way of uh engaging with their customers for end-to-end experience?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_05: Are you seeing that as a trend?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is uh, I think uh it's a growing trend.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh not all providers are able to do it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the places where you know people are monetizing is where they are able to capitalize on the first party data, right?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the uh that's where the meat lies, and that's where people are able to spend their dollars or are willing to spend their dollars.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think when you as a brand start creating value in your ecosystem, you are able to monetize that, not just not essentially to sell, but when you are looking at partnerships, you can go and confidently talk to that partner saying that, hey, this is the value of my ecosystem.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And hence I think it's good for us to collaborate.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So then you're able to identify the right partners, you're able to identify uh and value the assets that are that are provided by the partner.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, of course, the benchmarks may not be the same as the wall gardens of the world, like you know, Meta and Google and such, but slightly different.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: It and it's a different customer reach that you'll be able to get.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_05: So when you define an ecosystem, very interesting, you're using a word uh ecosystems because ecosystems are normally used by technology companies, right?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_05: So for uh uh you know, for an airline like yours, uh how do you see uh your ecosystem?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I see so our ecosystem is like one-stop solution, right?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, how we are able to get the audiences into this ecosystem, so whether it is on the website or the app, uh, and how we are able to get them to provide a seamless journey uh for their complete travel requirement for flights, hotels, um, and also transportation.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's that's ecosystem for me.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if you look at it from other perspective, like any other e-commerce brand, for them, their app or their website would be their ecosystem.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you get the customer?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how are you retaining them?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: How are you engaging them and getting them to come back?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's that's what will drive value for that ecosystem.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_05: When you're really looking at ecosystems, you are looking at the whole end-to-end journey, right?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_05: Which is uh very different from the normal uh you know the airline marketing that we know, which is really to say, hey, uh there are reward points, reward points is just one thing, but you're really looking at it from the overall end-to-end uh travel experience.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_05: That's really what you are defining as uh the value of the brand that you are building, right?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: So even you know, when once you have booked the flights with us, or with when once you book a flight, right, you would want to know uh or you want to get updates about is my flight on time, if my flight schedule is on time.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, you know, as a brand, I would like to segment that audience and see if they have not done their accommodation or the stays booking, how can I upsell to that person, right?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the things that happened within uh this whole journey so that we are able to not only uh give them one solution of say just flight tickets, but also beyond that and how engage them.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm not sure if you've used the app uh in India, it might be slightly different, but uh typically like within the app, you also we also have something called as chat, which is the platform where we engage the customer directly.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um we have communities over there where where it is where we allow two-way communication.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, if you're looking at uh traveling to say Fouquet, you want to know what are the things to do in Fouquet, you can just go to that community, ask people, hey, what are the five things I can do in two days, right?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And people will respond over there and give you some answers and some solutions, some ideas.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's the complete um uh engagement that can happen uh within the ecosystem, then.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_05: So let's discuss uh you've seen uh and worked in agencies and uh with marketing partners.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, uh how is the business model of the marketing agencies uh going to change over the next few years?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_05: How are you seeing the business models change?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_05: Because there's a lot of disintermediation of media itself, right?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_05: So, therefore, uh how do you see the uh media models changing in the coming years?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's quite interesting because uh I feel the way technology is changing, agencies are also trying to play catch up with that, right?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because technology is actually defining how media will shape or how marketing will shape.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um in corporates, there's I'll take it in two parts, yeah.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So corporates is where we are trying to do a lot of in-housing.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you've already seen shifts in a lot of bigger brands where they have created their own studios.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: They try to concentrate and um uh you know bring in the media efficiencies as well by uh as a regional buy, for example, or corporate buy and things like that.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the role and how media agencies also need to shape up is what is it that they can offer as a value to the corporates or the brands, which would be different from what the corporate and the brand already has internally.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: If if if the brands are already uh bringing in those specialists, then the role of the agency actually diminishes over there, right?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think the approach that agencies need to start taking is more strategic.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be more consultative because that's where um agency can play a stronger role than what they traditionally do.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's no longer just about media buying, because if you just focus on media buying and providing media efficiency as cost saving, it won't cut through anymore.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be beyond that, it has to be much more than that.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_05: So uh I just want to dig a bit uh deeper into what you are saying.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_05: Uh uh the reason why uh you know clients are setting up their own studios or looking at their own uh you know uh consolidation.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_05: Uh they're looking at their own consolidation of various marketing tasks within their department.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_05: Uh what did the what was the reason why they started doing it?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_05: What what did they not get and what was missing?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe that's an area that uh could be interesting because uh everybody knows that's happening.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, but uh, you know, when you're sitting inside, you know why that is happening, right?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_05: What's the value that's missing, if I were to ask you that question?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think there are many factors to it.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's not that the agencies don't get it, it's definitely uh they do get that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that um when it comes to brands, you want a faster turnaround time, right?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So literally the briefs you've come from agencies, so you know the briefs were meant to be yesterday, the campaign was meant to be a week before, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's literally faster turnaround times.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, second is um as a brand, nobody can be a better brand custodian than your own team, right?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you know better what are your values, what is it that will work, and it's easier to manage the stakeholders internally as well when there is a better control of the complete um you know marketing tasks that are there.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um third is definitely the operational cost from what you pay to an agency and if you are creating your complete studio internally, there's a lot of savings that get drip that get driven over there.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's another thing that um corporates think of, especially in this world where everything is about you know uh budget cuts or budget savings that you need to have, bring in more efficiencies so that you're able to drive the business with higher profitability.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, okay.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and uh so when you when you look at something like that where you're looking at faster turnaround times, you're looking at uh something that needs to be done yesterday, and uh uh uh engaging internal stakeholders.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_05: You're you talked about that.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that's that seems to be very critical because you're always sitting inside, uh outside, and when you want to engage stakeholders, what do you mean by engaging stakeholders?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_05: So give me an example.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_05: It need not be you are uh you know in your company, but you can say uh if you're running media, when you talk about engaging stakeholders, who are the stakeholders, what are their expectations, and where do they see gaps?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think engaging stakeholders over here would typically mean where you're able to be able to get your management approvals faster, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be at C level or whatever levels, the senior most level has to approve the final output of the work that you're doing.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's essentially to be able to understand what the business objective is, what I am doing, is it able to match that properly or not?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's the key responsibility of a marketer to be able to help solve the business problem.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes uh when it comes to agencies, they may not be able to address these two things very closely because the visibility that they would have is only in a way it's isolated, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're you've bought the agency on board, for example, only for say offline marketing, in lack of better words.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: But the problem probably requires a trade solution and not so much of a marketing solution, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you as a marketer can understand that and be able to help bridge that gap.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when uh I think it uh the role of the marketer changes over here, and that's why internalization helps or in-housing helps a lot because you know what are the three things that you need to do to help achieve um, you know, solve that problem that's there for the organization.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_05: Brilliant.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_05: I think uh you've hit upon a very uh important point, which is solving the business problem, uh which is sometimes sometimes not given enough attention.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_05: You talk about brands, you talk about communication, you talk about media buys, you talk about uh you know uh uh media efficiencies, but uh very often uh you know there is a conversation around the business problem, correct?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'll be honest, uh when I was younger, I used to always feel why is this not getting approved by the client?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: What is you know missing over here when we have tried addressing the brief and this is already there, and then you see that oh, the brief has changed, but the brief has not really changed.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is this that the requirement that's there is not properly properly getting met by the solution that you have provided?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the brief is changing because you're trying to identify what exactly is the challenge or the problem that you're trying to solve over here.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, no, I totally agree.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_05: I totally agree that that's the real challenge, which is uh solving the business problem because we talk about everything outside the business problem, and uh, and finally we end up actually.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: Putting some money and then realizing that the business problem is not getting solved, and uh therefore, you pretty much take you use another word which is called control, right?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, you don't have control when you're sitting outside, but when you're sitting inside, uh, you have control.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_05: So, what kind of a control uh are you talking about, and what does that control do to solving the business problem?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_05: Give me an example, a real life example of how uh you know it happens and therefore uh it makes sense.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: See, uh, I think it could be very simply put across, like um, you know, when we are when we talk about media campaigns, programmatic ads, first party data, and everything, as an agency, you wouldn't have access to that kind of data, right?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: That the brand already owns.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: The data team of the brand, because now brands have evolved a lot in terms of their structures and the organization structure overall.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: So most of them now have their own internal data team as well, who understands the data, who understands the audience much better than the agency would.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: So the marketeer is in a much better position to understand who the audience is, who is transacting with me, who is just, you know, coming and fishing with me, and who is, you know, who have I really lost and why I have lost.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think why is something that we a lot of brands need to still figure out, but otherwise, the initial three things, right?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's easily controllable by the brand to understand what works and what they should be doing.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the marketing uh problem is not about doing a campaign on programmatic ads, for example, it's more about just doing a CRM activation and be able to that and be able to engage that audience and get that audience back into the ecosystem.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think those are the things that are in better control when it comes to the brand.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, agency won't have access to those things.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's why when agency takes a consultative approach, they can help solve the problem because they will be able to diagnose the problem.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: They may not be able to get involved into the operations which the brand would be able to do now, but agency can definitely take a consultative approach and help advise the brand on what are the right things to do.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, just imagine, right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: When I say today's market year has to be jack of all trades, you wouldn't know exactly what to do, what not to do.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's why you need that kind of partner who can help you go to the next level.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when you take a consultative approach, it becomes much easier for the brand to also get that support then.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, I think it's a it's a lovely point that you're making.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, what you're really saying is the harvesting of the data, the harvesting of the knowledge, the harvesting of uh the insights, uh, when it just sits inside the client organization, uh there must be new value that needs to be brought in by the agency.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that I think is the gap that you are talking about, right?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_05: Clearly, uh, you know, how would you bring that value?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_05: And that's when I'm willing to invest and uh grow with you.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_05: That's the new model, and maybe what worked for the last 50 years may not work for the next uh 50 years.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_05: So, therefore, that you need to really now look at it and then say when the disruption happens internally, uh, and when media is actually getting uh you know uh disintermediated, you need to find a new method of uh engaging with, say, uh a media professional or a media head like yours and saying your team, and then saying, hey, uh, this is the value that we will bring in.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_05: So they therefore the redefinition of value itself is something that the business model has to look at going into the future, right?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_05: That's correct, absolutely right.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, uh, the other interesting thing, uh Mehek, that uh I saw uh was this whole thing that Areshare talks about, this whole super app as a model, right?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_05: And it's it's really interesting that uh you know you've now called it move, and uh, you know, you've looked at uh the whole journey holistically.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_05: Not many airline companies look at it, but honestly, I think uh it's a refreshing approach to uh the travel experience.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_05: Uh uh talk to me about the super app and what it does, and what is the value uh differentiation that it brings to a traveler and therefore Arasia as a brand.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um so Swami, I think this goes back to Erasia's DNA actually, right?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: So Erasia, when it started back in 2020, 22 years back, we um we started this brand uh as airline, and the idea was to democratize travel in the region.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's basically like you know, anybody can fly.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was the objective.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we are a low-cost carrier, we provide the best value to the passenger who's flying with us, and we allow them to travel around the region anywhere.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think um in 2020, just during or before the pandemic, actually, we were trying to pivot our business, and that's when we did the pivot of the business also to super app.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the idea of super app was to be able to provide any-day solution to the customer.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was more short term, but the focus now that we have is to provide end-to-end travel experience to the customer who's coming to us and a very seamless experience.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: So now when you come to Super App or we will rebrand soon as Erasia Move, it will be uh about not only booking your flight tickets with us.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so you can actually book not only Arasia flights, but also non-Aerasia flights.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can also look at booking your stays with us.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're planning your trip to Fouquet, you can actually fly with Arasia and you can also book a hotel with us.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting is we have introduced a product called Snap.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: So Snap actually combines the flight tickets and hotel tickets and provides a much better value bundle for you so that you can actually come book the complete package of your flights and hotels together.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then it comes with the last mile or the first mile solution of going to the airport and then commuting in the city, right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where Erasia Ride, which is the e-healing services that we have, comes into picture.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we have also extended that with Erasia Transport, which is basically within the city, travel through buses, ferry rides, anything that you require as a traveler.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: So literally it's like stringing the whole journey together, be able to provide that as a seamless experience to the customer, engage them through chat so that they are updated about their trip details overall, and be able to provide them with a holistic experience.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: What's next is actually going to be uh things that you can do within the city when you travel with us.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's coming soon in the near future, but yeah, that's there.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_05: Beautiful.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_05: I think uh I think the value proposition of finally, uh, you know, when if air travel was becoming a commodity, you are changing it by differentiating through the seamless experience that you're able to uh absolutely think through this whole super app thing, right?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: All right, like right now you have to go to maybe three different websites to find out the details, book my flight tickets, do this, do that.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: With flights now, you can just literally look at erasha flight rates, you can also look at non-erasha flight rates, take whatever best suits for you, whether it is by your, you know, you want to do a short trip or you want to do the lowest trip, lowest price trip, anything.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's possible to do.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the idea is to, you know, get make the customer not go to 10 different portals.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we get them to, you know, book within the ecosystem so that they can actually find the value of that and be rewarded for that.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_05: I think uh so just to give uh give a perspective, uh, I had read about this uh many many years back uh with Lester Wonderman.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_05: And uh he called this uh produs, which is product and service.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, okay.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_05: So he said uh going uh maybe 30-40 years later, brands will become prodasses, okay, where you will offer product and service, and that's exactly uh what you are uh what you're really uh offering, and that's an interesting that's an interesting perspective.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_05: But tell me, uh therefore, your competition uh is it uh the OTAs?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_05: Because obviously, uh, you know, that's really where uh most of them go today and book, and therefore, uh, why would I want to come to a super app and do it?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_05: And therefore, what differentiation are you able to drive from the consumer need that you see?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_05: Uh what really are the consumer problems of uh uh you know an OTA today versus uh what you uh you know what an airline offers?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_05: I don't want to call it air asia, but clearly uh what's really the consumer challenge and the problem that you're trying to address, which is not there, which is not there in the uh you know the e-commerce travel sites today.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Understand.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the key challenge was to be able to provide the customer the value that they require, right?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um for Erasia or in general, like Erasia as a whole, it's all about price and the value.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: We are always the lowest.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So anytime you come to Erasia, you will find the lowest flights.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: So with Erasia Move, the key offering that we want we have for them, it's the best price that you can get in the market.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you can and they can go and benchmark it with any other OTAs or wherever it is, right?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, when it comes to say other OTAs, you have to you'll end up booking your flights rate still.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a singular journey, right?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: But with Ariasia Move, it's going to be it's a single journey.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to go to different portals to go and do your bookings, it's all within the super app.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it's super app because it's all together in one place, one login, one booking, and you know, one itinerary?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the ultimate goal.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, okay.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_05: And when you look at your role as uh the global head of media, uh, how do you see this changing in terms of the way you will look at media, the way you will uh sell media, the way you will work with partners?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_05: How does your own job definition and role change when something like this transforms within an organization?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, so my uh my role and the job that uh the business that I have actually is very niche in that case.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very specific to travel audiences, unlike any other publisher, uh it's like you know, you you're able to reach the masses over here.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's very specific to travel audience.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and to educate uh agencies or even clients about that is important.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where we are focusing a lot right now is to educate the clients on the travel audience, how that audience can be reached, how we can segment as as you know, uh as specific as if people are traveling from a destination to B.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you can actually do route-specific targeting and not just mass targeting of traveler in general, right?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so those are the things that I'm focusing on right now, uh, making people more aware about how travel audience can be reached out, making travel relevant to um marketers in their customer journey as well.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, if it is an FMCG brand or personal care brand, right?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: How can you be more relatable to a travel audience?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: So introducing travel kits, which are uh which, anyways, a customer would require or passenger would require when they are traveling internationally or even for a short destination.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the things that we um I try to educate them, make them aware how it is important.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and second is also um the merchants or the partners that we have listed, uh educating them on how they can leverage the ecosystem to not only create top funnel advertising, but also bottom funnel so that they can drive more consideration for their own um their own listings and get more conversions from the ecosystem itself.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a two-pronged thing.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_05: So it's the top of the funnel and the bottom of the funnel approach to the partners and to the uh external advertisers also.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the word uh the way I position it is more like endemic and non-endemic merchants.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's both of them that we are focusing on, but with different strategies.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_05: So talk to me about endemic merchants and non-endemic merchants.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_05: How do you what is your thought process there?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_05: Interesting, uh interesting use of the word, yeah.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um so for uh endemic merchants, it's mostly about getting them to drive more uh sales within our ecosystem.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for example, you know, when I mentioned about hotel partners, when they are listed, how can they be able to drive more value from our ecosystem?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: So over there we focus a lot on consideration, like you know, how can we segment the audience for that particular merchant and reach out to the audience, whether it is through emails, push notifications, or you know, on-site inventory that we have and uh drive conversion for them.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: So consideration and conversion.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas for um non-andemic, it's more about the top funnel focus and to some extent, either engagement or consideration, depending on the channels that they are activating with us, right?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um so driving more awareness for them, driving more consideration or engagement through the content that we create or through other initiatives like sampling and such that can be done with the audiences.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_05: So when you're creating your own uh media uh and uh you know you've got a small niche, as you rightly said, you know, that's the uh uh harvesting that you're doing with your first party data and data and insights that you're building.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_05: Uh how do you really fuse this with the uh you know the digital world out there, which is the larger digital properties?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_05: Because that's really where uh majority of the travel happen.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_05: And therefore, uh how do you uh how do you uh really uh you know eke out uh prospects into uh your media and uh your uh uh your channel, if I were to call it.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_05: Uh and how uh so therefore, how do you really balance both?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_05: Is there any thoughts on how brands should do it?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm not saying it should be only Air Asia, but how should brands do it?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_05: Because at one end, brands really want to engage with their customers directly, at the other end, most of the customers are owned by these big tech companies, yeah, right?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_05: So, therefore, you have to keep on balancing this, uh, which is really what I I see as challenges for marketers.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh that's why we have our audience solution as well, actually.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, over here we don't look at selling data to anybody because that's uh privacy compliance that we follow on our end, uh, but we leverage it more for our merchants and partners, the endemic partners that we have, um, so that we can drive the low furnal conversions for them.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: And over here, uh the approach is to take not only just the onset inventory, but also be able to target the audiences outside of our ecosystem.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, today if somebody has come and started searching for uh trip to Fouquet, right?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that person is looking for the trip to Fouquet.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as a flight uh partner, airline partner, I can target that person off site as well because I have the first-party data of that audience.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's feasible through the ad tech solution that we have on our side.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be done through not only um direct buys, but we can also enable programmatic buys on the ecosystem.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing can be replicated for hotels.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if the booking is already completed, but I know that this person has not done the stays booking with us, we can actually retarget the audience and target them wherever they are to uh can get them to consider hotels in forget in that case.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_05: Brilliant.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_05: So you pretty much are building your own ad tech solution, but you are having the plugins with the big tech uh you know pipes, and therefore you're able to provide a holistic view of how you can look at the look at look at the journey, whether whether the audience is a prospect or a customer.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_05: You can actually look at it holistically as well, how you are approaching, and that's a very, very big change in the way media uh has to be thought through, and therefore, you're really saying that the future of media is about how you interestingly collaborate with multiple uh uh you know uh technology platforms and how you really uh integrate them.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_05: That seems to be something that uh that uh at least I'm picking up that as a very interesting uh perspective as far as how media will emerge in the future.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_05: Would that be a good statement to make?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think along with that, it's also about providing the seamless customer experience because ultimately at the heart of all this is the customer.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you are not able to give them the right experience, the right value, it's a very disjointed experience.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's the um that's the core of all of this, actually.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_05: Fantastic, fantastic.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so uh I pretty much want to wrap up with a couple of uh questions.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_05: Uh these are rapid-fire questions, and uh you can answer them with uh uh you know as much time that you want to take.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_05: Uh okay.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_05: Tell me uh one uh campaign that uh you wish you were a part of.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_05: As a marketer, you you can say the top two or three is okay, but uh you know, if I were to say, hey, I saw that campaign, and that's something that I wish I was a part of.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um not recently, but I think um I think this is one of the best campaigns that I've seen.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: So there are two of them.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: One is um Coca-Cola's Share a Cook campaign.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was one of the most fabulous and interesting campaigns that they have done globally, and very interesting executions also.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, coming from advertising agency backgrounds, so for me, creativity always plays an important role.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: So now that there's a shift in my profile, but yes, back then, uh even today, sometimes I feel those are the things that really help create the buzz for the brand.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that that was one campaign that I think I would have wished I was part of.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um second is um Doves Diversity Campaign.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, making it more inclusive.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one campaign that I think is also quite interesting.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_05: Uh one brand uh you look up to, and uh why?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Amazon.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_05: Why is that?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I actually it it's progressive, right?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: So uh when I was young, I think Ogilvi was the brand.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it still is.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: So even today when I meet some of my ex-colleagues, I've like always, or even my bosses now, so like, yes, Ogilvi is one brand, definitely.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I've seen Amazon and I like the way they have created the whole business model.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's an inspiration for me because that's the that's the place that I want to be in when it comes to even my media solution.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the way the whole Amazon ads ecosystem has been built, it has taken them quite some time, I think more than a decade actually.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: So for me to be able to achieve that also, even a fragment of it, is okay, it's it's a milestone for me.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: So Amazon is the current brand that I really aspire to be like or you know want to be part of.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_05: And uh one uh CMO or marketer who uh you uh you know who you uh you know look up to and uh why you it can be a couple of them, that's okay, but one uh marketer that who you look up to and say, Hey, I learned many things from uh you know the uh these people, it could be working with them directly, or you could have also learned because of the way they did the stuff.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um let me let me rephrase it.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, one marketer or a CMO who has inspired you, okay, and uh you're taking those learnings in how you practice marketing today.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think one person, and this one I can definitely pin it down because um it's like one person who has really inspired me for media, actually.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's actually my professor, but he is.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: uh an active and he currently is also in the media uh the marketing world still so uh he's the one who taught me how media works what media is all about when i was doing my postgraduation and such so uh so this this is one person that i really feel inspired me for media because that's when i understood it's not just about numbers it's about being strategic and how you're able to place media in the world of marketing and how you integrate it with the advertising world yeah okay okay yeah and would you would you uh uh love to name him or when you want to yeah um I can so uh his name is Vikram Tana I think he is currently uh in C level for one of the gaming companies in India okay yeah okay and uh couple of books in marketing that uh have inspired you to uh you know look at this profession and something that you would recommend to the audience saying hey don't uh you know don't uh if you are in marketing just ensure that you read these couple of books so which ones would you recommend?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'll be honest Fami I saw this question also before so marketing books is not something that I completely follow by um which is also great I think you you can pick up ideas from other places so that's correct so I think the Bible that I follow is Philip Kotler for sure uh he is a marketing guru so that's one thing that I definitely fall back on.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh even recently when I was discussing with my sister in fact she is actually a teacher and but she is she was covering a course related to advertising and communication.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: So then I gave her some examples from Philip Kotler.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one thing that I definitely fall back on.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And even today when uh there are new joinees who join in that's one book that I definitely get them to recommend because in today's world right not everybody comes from a proper advertising communication or marketing academics.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: They come from different spaces who want to explore so that's one thing that I definitely recommend.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Second I believe in reading books but it's more for my passion.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not so much just about marketing per se.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: I feel culture plays an important role when it comes to marketing so totally agree totally agree.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so for me reading books that are more culture oriented helps me a lot I feel um not necessarily uh you know uh not necessarily that it has to be about just current times also it can be more fictional in nature also because that also shows how uh the background of that particular you know country or city has evolved or changed over time because that shows the thinking of people from that period or that time.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this one book that has always stuck with me it's called Things Fall Apart.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh written by Chino Archibi I'm not sure if you're familiar with it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: No I'm not I'm not yeah so that's one book that I uh always remember because that's something that I feel makes you understand culture so closely that you can relate to people and you know how you can communicate to people as well.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay fantastic and uh more recently uh what's one campaign that you're extremely proud of that you have been involved with and uh which uh uh which you think uh has added a lot of value to what you do today um I think very recently I would say would be my work with Aerasia right so um I think last year there were some initiatives that we had done for digital out of home buys uh where we were able to look at sell tickets uh because we were looking the so the campaign was about um selling certain million tickets so we were able to target audiences uh through the different um you know uh out of home digital out of home screens um by um the traffic uh that was there so that was a programmatic buy that we had done and uh I think it was for seven million sit seats that we were looking to sell out uh within certain time frame so walk me through that's interesting so seven million tickets and through out of home uh completely uh digital out of home is what uh uh and and uh and physical right so that's really how we would have done it correct so it's a it's a uh I'm I'm also trying to reclaim because it has been a couple of months now but yes it was uh seven million seats that we were looking to sell out and it was through digital uh programmatic out of home actually so we had identified uh the audience and you know we were trying to tell them how many seats are left what is uh um the and trying to build that kind of urgency among the audiences to go and book the tickets and the campaign was for um a week and we had extended it by three days so that we could uh you know the last three days is to do the final call kind of push then fantastic fantastic I think what you're really talking about is use of media in a far more dynamic and a real-time manner is what I think you're talking about right absolutely yeah I think that's the big change that you're talking about right so a lot of customization um I mean digital out of home is another area where I've seen a lot of evolution that has happened I think if you talk about out of home six years back seven years back it was almost almost dead I can say because it was all static brands were not investing in media when digital out of home came in it became much more interesting because they thought okay this is walking um like you know you are able to reach out to the moving audiences uh through the video ads um in the in the uh on the roads or in transit wherever they are I think the next level to it came when the programmatic landscape came in where we were able we are able to connect those screens directly and be able to talk to the audiences based on their location based on what um they consider their interests it's not about just mass targeting but it's actually being able to reach out to the right audience at the right time at the right place now.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_05: Fantastic fantastic and my last question Mehak is uh what would be your advice to a say an 18 or a 20 year old or 21 year old who is a marketing student in a college or a university today?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: What are the uh what is one piece of advice that you would give them um I think a lot of them come with the expectation it's like a glamorous world don't think of it like that um um have an open mindset understand data I think data is key today and even in future it will play a very important role because if you understand data well if you're able to articulate the data well you will be able to analyze your audience in a much better way um and it's important to be it's important for them to understand insights I think what miss what I see that goes missing today in today's you know newer generation who's coming into this field they don't understand what insights mean and um and I think it also comes from the fact that if you see some digital ads and then you are like okay these are the numbers this is this is it but what really goes behind why are they interacting with you so analyzing that being able to derive the right insights so that you can communicate to the audience effectively is important.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_05: So try to understand those things and you know be rooted to understanding the consumer when you're doing any marketing campaign if you don't understand your consumer you won't be able to connect with them you won't be able to interact with them you won't be able to get them hooked onto your brand in any at any point of time brilliant thanks Mehuk uh that was a very very good conversation I must tell you that uh the perspective and the landscape that you shared with us on how marketing has changed uh how the new media is taking uh its position in the marketing world the in-housing of the marketing teams and the reasons and the whys was very interesting and finally the 7 million campaign that you spoke about and the advice that you gave was very very pertinent.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks a lot I loved this conversation and thanks a ton for your time.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much Swami for inviting me over and having me over for this session I think uh it it's been a great learning because discussing with you also make makes made me think a lot of things that okay this is how it is so it's it's a it it was a good introspection in a way when I was discussing with you and um happy to be here.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much again.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome thanks a lot