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When Attraction Fades · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:05
  Speaker A: Welcome to Gaiman Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gaiman's brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I'm your host today, Matt Lansdell, and joining me is my co host, Michael Diorio. Welcome. Okay, today we are talking about when attraction fades is specifically obviously in a romantic relationship, a marriage, these sorts of things. So this is very common. If you're somebody that's in a long term relationship or maybe you're married.
• 0:42
  Speaker A: The attraction fades, it changes, it requires us to work on it. And you know, some of you might be listening and might have experienced this, some of you might be listening and are experiencing this. Maybe you're in a sexless marriage and you're like, what is going on? Why, why do I not feel attracted to my partner? Does my partner still feel attracted to me? So if this is you, you're experiencing this or you've experienced this, this is normal. It happens in relationships. But Michael and I are going to unpack it today and look at why it happens and what we can do about it if this is what's coming up for you. So, yeah, I'm curious, Michael, has this ever happened to you in a relationship before?
• 1:25
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that, as you said, it's very natural, it's very normal. And I think that it's, it's not a bad thing either. And I think that the way that I would define it is that that type of attraction may fade, but other ones perhaps come online more or become more important as we, as we evolve a relationship. And that isn't a problem then for me. Now to me, sex and intimacy, physical intimacy, sexual intimacy specifically is important in a relationship. But I've come to learn that it's certainly not the most important. I wouldn't even say top three for me in a long term relationship that emotional intimacy is very important to me. Intellectual intimacy, mental stimulation, someone I can talk to, someone I can open up to, someone I can experience things with, like companionship. Those are all probably more important to me in the long term. But I do still. I will say this. I've always been attracted to my boyfriends, even in the years gone by. Like, I still look at them like, you're such a babe, you're so hot. And I still do want to touch you and be with you. So that part hasn't. I mean, it fades in like, maybe the, the hot, spicy, like rolling around all night sex maybe fades, but that's okay. I'm okay with that. Because there's so many other things that mean more to me than that. And, and so I guess I'm. While the attraction does fade, I'd like, I'd like to say change, like evolve. Maybe this doesn't sound as bad for me, but it hasn't gotten to the point where it's been completely gone, where like, I look at my partner and be like, I have zero attraction to you. That. That has not happened to me.
• 3:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see a lot of gay men putting a lot of emphasis on the physical because you said, you know, you kind of have these other pillars of like intellectual and even emotional intimacy. And there can even be spiritual int. These sorts of things. And when there's. All the chips are in that one category of physical, there's a higher likelihood of the attraction fading or becoming monotonous or boring, these sorts of things. I think that's why we do see a lot of open relationships in the gay community too, is because there's this high emphasis on novelty and variety and because there's this one area that we're putting so much emphasis, which is the physical or the.
• 3:44
  Speaker B: I think I froze.
• 3:45
  Speaker A: Do you also see that?
• 3:47
  Speaker B: Can you hear me?
• 3:48
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 3:49
  Speaker B: Okay. I thought that was. I missed what you said. Sorry.
• 3:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, so the, in the. This whole notion of it, you know, there being such a high emphasis on the physical, the sexual and every, you know, putting all the chips in that one category and then, you know, we open up our relationships in the gay community because of this. Right? Or not just. But that could be a reason. Right? I know that's what happened to me when I opened up my relationship. So I was just wondering if you see that as well.
• 4:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons not, not all I've been in relationships where I was still having sex with my partner and we were open. Yeah, definitely. The bit about the types of intimacy on this, on this podcast, I've shared the four types of intimacy. Physical, which isn't just sex, by the way. Physical intimacy also includes things like slow dancing, cuddling, I gazing, just. Just rubbing, caressing, all that stuff. It doesn't have to even be penetrative sex. So there's other types of physical intimacy too. Then there's emotional intimacy, so how safe you feel opening up your deepest fears and biggest desires to the person. Intellectual intimacy, so how you can like ping pong off each other and stimulate ideas and generate great conversation together. And then the last one is experiential intimacy, which is doing things together. So going on trips Together and, you know, tackling projects together, maybe building a business together or doing some kind of project together, like anything that is experiential that we do together, especially if it's something that we do together for the first time, really builds a lot of intimacy. So, yes, I agree that there's a lot of emphasis on the physical. And when you can balance that out, balance that portfolio across all four types of intimacy, you're going to be left with a much more enriching relationship that will be able to withstand a little bit of those highs and lows, especially, you know, as people age and that novelty wears off. You know, I think it's more common than not that the sex might.
• 5:47
  Speaker B: Just become less frequent or less spicy. And I think that's okay because you've got all these other amazing things that are more important.
• 5:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So is it fair to say that if somebody's noticing this happening in their relationship, that maybe they need to look in these other areas and say, okay, well, we have. We're putting a lot of emphasis on the physical. What if we put more emphasis on sensual or intellectual or experiential or these sorts of things where they can start to build intimacy in other ways?
• 6:12
  Speaker B: That is exactly what I'm doing right now with one of my clients who's kind of. I hope he's listening because this episode's perfect for him, but that's exactly what we're doing. He and his partner are learning to bring these other types online, and we're kind of going through, okay, try this and do this. And what he's finding is that as this happens, the attraction is starting to come back online. And he's not even trying. He's not even doing anything specifically in the area of physical appearance or anything physical. But as they do these things together, they're building a bond again, or they're reigniting a bond, I should say. And he's finding him more attractive, which is a beautiful byproduct.
• 6:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I love that. And it's a testament to therapy and coaching and how just even individual therapy and coaching can help. Because what's happening is there's a. You know, in a relationship we initially discover, okay, that's part of dating and relationship building. The honeymoon phase is all about discovering each other. And then what ends up happening is when we start to get into these lulls, we have to. We have to go back into that discovery, that exploration, energy, and we have to rediscover our partner constantly.
• 7:19
  Speaker B: Right.
• 7:19
  Speaker A: I think that's really important. And even More so important from, in my experience, in a monogamous relationship where it's just the two of you. Right. Because there has to be that exploration happening. And so there is a. I do. I do, you know, encourage all gay men to be in therapy or coaching. Even if you don't have issues per se, that this is just an opportunity for you to understand yourself better, for you to continue to shed your own skin so you can be rediscovering yourself and then bringing that into your relationships. Right. I think it's just so healthy and.
• 7:53
  Speaker B: Agreed with that and getting out of your routines. If you've been together for a long time and you live in the same house and you do the same thing and you go to the same places, you do the same vacations and you go to the same gym, and you just do the same, same, same, same, same.
• 8:06
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 8:07
  Speaker B: The simplest thing, honestly, is just doing something different, especially if it's new for both of you. And getting out of the routine and trying. Even like trying a new restaurant or trying a new recipe. Like, simple, simple things can just at least change it up a little bit enough to, like, make a shift. But there are a lot of fun ways you can do that. Like, trying new things together can be. Can run the gamut from that to, like, I don't know, going like, bungee jumping together and trying that for the first time or having a couple's bucket list. This is something that I, when I coach couples, I have them do is you. We understand the concept of a bucket list, right? So what we do is we put one, like, together, like things we've always wanted to do together. And then they have. They create that. And then, like, they try to hit, you know, one a month or. Or if they're big, maybe one a year. And that just keeps things a little bit fresh and spicy. And again, it's. It's amazing how attraction can get reignited in ways that you don't even see coming through that.
• 9:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing will kill a relationship fire quicker than monotony and boredom. And I always emphasize spaciousness in a relationship too, because sometimes the attraction fades because you're spending too much time together. If you're seeing each other every day, you're spending every waking moment together. There is not an opportunity for desire to build. And I think desire builds through scarcity and through missing, you know, like, what we. We. We really desire what we can't have. So if you, if you and your partner take space, right. I know some couples that take one week a year Apart from each other. And it's like a reset, so they'll go off and have separate vacations, and it's an opportunity for them to just take a week to, like. To, like, miss each other. Right.
• 9:48
  Speaker B: I love that. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.
• 9:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. Or maybe it's, you know, I don't know. Like, there's just so many ways that you can go about navigating that, like, every couple months you take a weekend apart or something. Yeah.
• 10:00
  Speaker B: Yeah. You have to let each other miss each other so that you're excited to see them again. I think it's a beautiful thing, like, oh, I can't wait to see you and, you know, tell you about. Even if it's the most boring thing, But I just want to. Can't wait to see you and share that with you. It just builds up a little bit of that excitement again. And what's the saying? You know, you don't know what you got till it's gone. Not. Not that the relationship is gone by any means, but if you take a little bit of space, it can create a little bit of that energy. Like, oh, you know what? I actually kind of miss having this person in my space, and I want to. I want to be around him more.
• 10:30
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:30
  Speaker B: It's just a nice reminder that, oh, hey, I don't. I don't take this person for granted. I. I really enjoy him.
• 10:35
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um. Yeah. I have a bit of a story that I want to share. So I was in a relationship, started when I was 21, so I was quite young. He was six years older than me, and the relationship was eight years. And the first four years, we were closed. And the second or the last four years, we were open. And this was a relationship where I did end up losing attraction to my partner, and I did not want to have sex with him, and I just wasn't, you know, so we were basically just best friends for those four years. Have any sex, any intimacy for four years. And we opened up our relationship probably because of that. Right. And it was a very, I would say, unhealthy way of opening a relationship. It was don't ask, don't tell, you know, don't communicate about it at all. I don't want to hear about it. And it just led to messiness. And. But I think for me at that time, like, because I had not done any integration work with my shame, I hadn't done any integration work with my trauma, and I had a really hard time merging intimacy and sex, they felt so yucky. To combine together. I was very much, you know, only probably having sex when I was drinking. And just the thought of bringing emotion or love into that act, for me, it felt like it was loaded with shame. I did not want to be seen, like, actually visible to my partner emotionally. So I kept things really closed off. And the reason why I'm sharing this is because I think a lot of, a lot of people can relate to this idea of.
• 12:14
  Speaker A: Of it feeling too vulnerable. Right. To bring a partner too close. And we might, we might be opening our relationship up because it feels like instead of going deeper with my partner, I'd rather just practice breadth over depth. Right. And have my eggs in a bunch of different baskets. So. And again, that's why I'm saying, like, therapy is really, really healthy to, you know, move through some of these things and how to become more comfortable in my own skin. So then I was able to, therefore, then, and not, unfortunately not in that relationship. I was never able to get the fire lit again. It. And I think that happens too, and it's okay. And I think that for me, I knew that the relationship needed to end because I do believe that sometimes the fire can be re relit and I think sometimes it can't because it's just, you know, maybe you're, the relationship has turned more into a friendship. And that's what happened with him. Like, we became basically best friends and I almost stopped seeing him as the person that I would turn my body over to. And so, yeah, it was meant, it was meant to, to, to fizzle and it was meant to fade. And I was, I was okay with that. But I do think that there are things that we can do to keep the spark alive in our relationships.
• 13:30
  Speaker B: I have a question.
• 13:32
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 13:33
  Speaker B: What if, you know, like, was there a moment where the attraction just kind of evaporated? Was, did something happen or did it, was it a slow fade, slow burn over time?
• 13:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, it was, it was, it was a bit. No, there was a moment. So it was a scent issue. And I didn't have the, the courage to have a conversation about it. His hygiene wasn't the best. And I just, I couldn't get over that. And I should have just said something, but then it just kind of compounded. And then I also think too, like, once I, I, I smell a scent from somebody that I don't like, it's really hard for me to recover from that. Yeah. Like, and I don't necessarily mean like, because there's certain people that even like their worst smell. It smells good to Me. And then there's some people that it's like not at all. Like, I just can't get, get on with that. And for some reason it was, you know, because I think in the first bit of the relationship the hygiene was there and he was taking good care of himself. And then I just think he kind of like let himself go. And that for me was, was like a turn off. Like he, he gained a bunch of weight. He was eating a lot of like junk food, like McDonald's and things like that. And then. And that was making his body smell and like, it just really. And at that time I was like super healthy. I was into training a lot and eating really well nutritionally and things like that. So to have a partner that was consuming junk food all the time and gaining a bunch of weight, it just, again, it was just a turn off for me.
• 15:03
  Speaker B: So I think a lot of guys out there can resonate with that. So if you're, if you're listening, maybe let us know what are the kinds of things that enable like attraction to fade for you? I'd love to hear that. Because what you're saying, Matt, I, I would agree with as well that I'm very sensitive to scent and fragrances. Um, and I think in the best way and the not so good way either. But yeah, I think for me, when attraction has faded with people, it's because I've seen aspects of their personality that I find unattractive. So a closed mind, being very judgmental, not, you know, I value high level of cognitive function and what I would call intelligence. And so I fail to see that. I'm like, I don't. You're just not attract attraction to me anymore. Similar thing, like if that's the lifestyle, especially if you signed up for one thing and then all of a sudden for whatever reason he's going down this other path, you know, whatever reason that may be. I, I can't, I just, I, I just can't be attracted to that in, in a sexual physical way. Maybe I'm still attracted to other aspects of you, but that's certainly not going to be one of them. And I'm not gonna, I'm gonna like look at your body and just be like, meh. I don't, I don't want to touch it. Because of your personality.
• 16:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. You're making me think so. And I never thought about this before, but the first six years of the relationship I was very avoidant. I had an avoidant attachment style. And he was more Anxious and. But it worked. We weren't like super activating of each other. But I think it was also because I was really dissociated and I just like was able to just you know, tolerate and whatever. But then I had my first spiritual awakening around the six year mark and, and, and I started to go to therapy and I started to attend like all these like healing retreat thingies and stuff like that. And I started to bring myself online emotionally and it was not held by him at all. Um, it was. So as I was starting to practice vulnerability and bring my emotions forward and it would lead to intense conflict and he would get really activated by me sharing my emotions and stuff like that. So I feel like that was a big deal breaker for me at that point. And then. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:19
  Speaker B: And that's okay. Right? People can grow. And.
• 17:23
  Speaker B: I, I would say you evolved. And maybe it doesn't sound like an evolution for him, but hey, who am I to judge? But it sounds like you know, you've. You evolved in this way as humans do.
• 17:32
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 17:32
  Speaker B: And that's okay if all of a sudden like when we're started here, you and I were here and now you know, I've kind of gone this way and that's okay. Then it's attractions is okay for phase and it's not. Not everything is meant to last. And that fizzling is. Is exactly what should have happened. And we don't need to beat anyone up. It wasn't his fault. It's not your fault. It's just the way it was always meant to be. It was always meant to be that season.
• 17:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:00
  Speaker A: Okay. What, what are some things that you can do or that we can share with the audience to keep the spark alive?
• 18:07
  Speaker B: Well, I think I shared already quite a bit on that. Like just changing up your routine, doing different things, focusing on other types of intimacy. So emotional, intellectual and experiential.
• 18:18
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 18:18
  Speaker B: And even within the physical, just take. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but take sex out of the equation. Slow down. I love slow dancing. I think it's so like one of those underrated old school things that I just love to do and I like just to put on like a song and you know, just slow dance with someone. Just feel them close to me. For me I just love that and like.
• 18:39
  Speaker B: Just works for me cuddling as well. Anything like even just grazing like a little butt tap when you're walking by. Like nothing too crazy but just focus on all these other things. If you take the attention off sex. Sometimes I think the pressure we put on it doesn't help because it creates a lot of pressure and expectation and then like, doesn't. Doesn't do much. The other thing I want to say though is it's okay if you are in a sexless marriage and you choose and want that for a lot of other really good reasons that you're okay with.
• 19:16
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 19:17
  Speaker B: For example, if you've been married to this person for, I don't know, a long time, doesn't matter how long, and you've built a great life together, you have a great home together. He's a wonderful co pilot with. In life.
• 19:29
  Speaker B: There'S financial stability. You guys are legally, financially just enmeshed. You have a good time together. He's a great partner in crime. But the sex isn't there. I think that is still a great reason to stay together. I don't think sex has to be part of every marriage or relationship. And if you are both okay with that and you both have really good reasons to stay together otherwise, whether it's family, whatever, I just named a bunch there, then by all means, my friends enjoy that sexless marriage. It's still a valid, beautiful, wonderful marriage.
• 20:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, good point. It wouldn't work for me, but no, if I was like, the most important for me is physical intimacy in a relationship. It's just, it's got to be there. So I'm actually really good at keeping things fresh. And I think it's the Gemini in me. Like, I have two sides, you know, and I can be wild and I can be the, like, you know, so I bring a lot of energy into sexual, into the sex. So I think my partners never get bored. Usually I tend to not get bored and. But it has to. The initial thing has to be there and they have to pass the scent check. And like, there has to be emotional intimacy too. But the sex is so important. It's like the glue for me, for the relationship. Yeah.
• 20:42
  Speaker B: What if it was. What if it was still physical but just non, non penetrative, like side, like side stuff.
• 20:49
  Speaker A: You could get into some side stuff.
• 20:51
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 20:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:52
  Speaker B: I think I'd be okay with it if, like, I'm imagining being older and like, if the sex. Also. Don't forget people have medical issues and health issues as things go, and sometimes they're not able to have sex. Right.
• 21:06
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:06
  Speaker B: So that's also very common. And I think, again, what that does, what I've seen is it. It actually forces them to. To start leaning into the other areas of Intimacy. But you can do that without having a medical issue. Guys, you can start doing that now.
• 21:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I. I want to share a few that I think are important. So toys. Toys can be really, really powerful for. For keeping intimacy alive, keeping the fire alive, playing with different things. Role playing is. Can be really powerful. Create the fantasies that you want to have. Instead of having to open up your relationship and going and trying to create these fantasies with other people. What if you did that with your partner? Right? And you can cosplay. You can do all the things like, trust me, it can be a lot of fun.
• 21:50
  Speaker A: And then one. One thing that I think is underrated in a huge way, absolutely huge, is to keep complimenting and appreciating your partner. Like, because as human beings, oftentimes we start looking outside the relationship and we start losing attraction to our partners because we're no longer feeling desirable or desired. We're no longer feeling appreciated. We're no longer feeling sexy. So we're like, well, geez, I want to. I want to feel that. That alive feeling. I want to feel that spark again. So that's why people open up or that's why people have affairs. So I think if you can keep, you know, you see your partner and his butt looks good in those jeans, tell him. Right? Like, I think sometimes gay men especially can become competitive in their relationship. So it's like, oh, I don't want to. I don't want to build him up too much because then he might leave me or other guys might think he's too attractive or whatever it might be. So we stop building up our partners. Right? I think we need to keep building up our. Our partners and. And building up ourselves. And I think that will also keep things alive.
• 22:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm never that guy. No, no, no. I'm never that guy. To. To not compliment my partner.
• 22:57
  Speaker A: No, I don't think he would be either.
• 22:58
  Speaker B: I'm always their number one fan. Like, I am their number one cheerleader number one fan. I'm telling them constantly how hot and great and amazing they are. That's just me. I love. I love giving words of affirmation.
• 23:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:09
  Speaker B: They'll all say, yeah. Michael just doesn't stop telling me a lot.
• 23:13
  Speaker A: That's such a good quality. Yeah. I'm like that if I'm dating a humble guy, but if I'm.
• 23:17
  Speaker B: If.
• 23:17
  Speaker A: Well, I wouldn't really date. I used to date cocky guys or guys that are all ego, and I would never want to build them up because they're just ego. But I feel like if a guy's humble. Yeah, I love complimenting him and making sure he feels, like, really loved and.
• 23:31
  Speaker B: Sexy because I feel like such a lucky guy. It's almost like, like, look how lucky I am to have this gorgeous, wonderful man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great.
• 23:40
  Speaker A: I love that. You'd be a great lover, Mr. Michael. Thank you.
• 23:47
  Speaker A: Anything else percolating?
• 23:49
  Speaker B: No, I think that covers it. It's a great episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely want to. I'm curious to know from the audience what, what, what, what causes attraction to fade for them and also what, what helped bring it back online. So you can let us know in the comments too.
• 24:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Share with us on YouTube what, what can you do to keep the spark alive in your relationship? If you are in a relationship that feels like the traction's faded or changed or anything like that. Share with us. We'd love to hear in the comments and get the conversation going in the community section in our. In our area on YouTube. But yeah, and lastly, yeah, if you're this podcast and YouTube channel are listener if you're supported. So if you enjoy what we are creating, you can support the community by making a donation to the show. It's in the show notes and you can also tap the thanks button on YouTube and you can also subscribe to the early access option on Apple Podcasts and you can get episodes ahead of time for I believe it's $1.99, $2.99.
• 24:48
  Speaker B: Per month, something like that.
• 24:49
  Speaker A: So. And all the. All these help us continue to grow our community.
• 24:54
  Speaker B: So.
• 24:55
  Speaker A: And if you want to learn any more about gay men's brotherhood, you can go to gayman's brotherhood.com all right, much love, everybody.