Latest / Responsibly Different™ / Live, Local, and In the Moment: Rethinking Media Inside Concert Venues

Transcript

Live, Local, and In the Moment: Rethinking Media Inside Concert Venues · Responsibly Different™

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Fireside, a responsibly different podcast where we spark candid conversations about media investments and the strategies shaping the way we connect and the strategies shaping the way we connect.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Hey, it's Chris Marine, founder of Campfire Consulting, and I am joined by my colleague and Campfire's head of strategy, david Gogel.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Fireside.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Before we get into today's episode, I'm going to ask for a quick favor Give this responsibly different channel a follow.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: It helps these stories and conversations reach more people, and when we can educate folks about the value I mean the true value of our media ecosystem, real change becomes possible for our culture locally and globally.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: So today we're talking about a media channel you've definitely experienced, but maybe haven't fully appreciated, the screens inside live concert venues.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: We're joined by Jared McCarthy, co-founder of Venue Ad Network, who's on a mission to support independent venues while giving brands the chance to show up in moments that actually matter, right before your favorite band takes the stage.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: We dig into how Van got started, why concert venues offer a different kind of attention and what this model could mean for the future of local music and creative media buys.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us around the fire.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Let's jump into our conversation with Jared McCarthy.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks for being on the podcast, jared.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: I'm super excited to have you on here.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: As a co-founder of Vann, I'm always interested.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I know you have a deep media background.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: But before we get into talking about Venue Ad Network, which we're going to probably refer to as Vann a lot here, give us your background.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: You have a deep media background.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: What was the origin story of Vann?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: What made you come up with this awesome idea?
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Sure, first of all, thanks for having me Excited to be here talking to you guys.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I was in media in New York City for about 15 years.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: So I started off in media planning and strategy, holdcos, which all seem to be converging into one thing now.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: But yeah, working across a variety of clients, always liked it, kind of just fell into it, honestly.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I went to college and was an English major.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: I played music.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: I always kind of knew advertising was a bit more of a creative yet somewhat safe corporate career.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: So I felt like it would suit me well and it definitely did.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: But yeah, after about 15 years working in media, moved to Maine during the pandemic, which is where my wife and I are both from We've got two girls Moved back here and started working at VIA, which is a creative agency here in Maine.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: I was there for about three years and unfortunately was laid off.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: As is a gap, as is the industry, our length of our time.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Yep, and I loved working there.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: But shortly after that I connected with, reconnected with an old friend and colleague who I worked with at PhD, which was an agency in New York.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: We worked together on HBO and we worked together on HBO during its heyday with Game of Thrones.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Like I worked on seasons one through three maybe, and then I left for a while and then I came back and I worked on the final seasons.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: So really like that was when HBO was top of the heap and there was really no competition, so it was kind of kind of glory days.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: But anyway, I reconnected, his wife were standing around between sets, between the opening act and the headliner, and he was just thinking well, it's kind of unbelievable that there's no ad presence of any kind during this moment, especially in a world where advertising is everywhere.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: Whether we like it or not, it is everywhere it does serve a purpose.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: This is a rare opportunity where you have a captive audience of potentially thousands and thousands of people, depending on the venue, who could be seeing something together.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: And it's an opportunity for, like you know, kind of a water cooler moment for a brand to really speak to someone.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: And yet there was no one, no one there.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: So he called me up with this idea, knowing that obviously we work together, we've got this media background.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: I'm also a musician, I've played a lot of these independent venues around the country and we started talking about it and you know I was like that's an awesome idea, kind of so much so that you're like it's so obvious and seems like surely someone has tried this and failed or there's a reason this doesn't work, or you run into issues with labels and management and the bands get involved and it's just so complicated.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, we were talking specifically about independent venues because we don't want to go up against or somehow I don't think we could integrate ourselves into a Live Nation.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: You know structure.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: That's where the passion comes from, because you do have this opportunity.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: That's one thing that's always drawn me and kept me on the media side of this business is that you have an opportunity to monetize a space too that I'd imagine supports the independent media in a really strong, powerful way.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Like you know, live Nation serves a purpose, but Live Nation, at least in this story, is a bit of the foil to what we're doing.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: You know, we all know, live Nation owns and operates a lot of venues.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: They're promoters of many bands.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Bands have exclusive contracts with Live Nation.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: They, of course, own Ticketmaster, so they've got this whole vertical integration.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: That is sort of a necessary or at least right now there's really no way to avoid them.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: If you're a concert goer, live, you know I don't want to speak ill of them, but the venues that I really love and that Brian, my partner, really love are independent venues from Portland.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: I'm from Falmouth, maine, right next to Portland, where there's the State Theater, which I actually just recently went and saw a show there.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: What was the show?
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: It was Sunny Day Real Estate.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: It's a band from the 90s that I grew up.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: It's sort of an early emo indie band and they were incredible, incredible and I love they have four albums.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: I know them all like front to back.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: So it was me and a bunch of other you know Xennials standing around singing songs, a lot of dudes just solo without their wives.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Was that you, jared?
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: That was me, yeah.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: So I didn't subject my wife to this.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: I was like you might like it, but you know I'll just go by myself.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: This is, it's like a special thing that may not, you know, be loved by all, but for people that grew up on it it's really meaningful.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: But the state theater itself is really meaningful.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: It's got a ton of characters, got a ton of history.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: It's a like institution here in Maine, here in Portland certainly, and these are the venues that I love, and there's a million of these venues all around the country.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: And the thing that really kind of where this idea developed after Brian initially approached me about it, where we kind of landed with it, long story short, is like one venue by itself is is Great, but you're not going to get a national brand on board with 1,000 cap venue in Chicago.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: But what if we built a network, what if we were sort of the facilitators of a bunch of these independent venues around the country, that then we could work with brands to then distribute the ads across all of these venues under one banner as like one buy.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: And that's kind of how Venue Ad Network, which in its name is.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: It's right there.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: But we break that down like take us through for folks that maybe it's been a hot second since they've been one of these venues.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Where are these brands appearing?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: What is that alarm that you're creating there for the brand?
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: So we're working with venues right now that have existing screens.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: So, on its most basic level, we are leveraging the screens that already exist inside these venues.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: So there are often screens, let's say, let's think so.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: The Salt Shed, for example, is a relatively new, huge 5,000 capacity venue in Chicago, huge 5,000 capacity venue in Chicago.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: It's like it's kind of considered one of the best new venues in the country.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: It's the old Morton Salt hangar that they've converted into this incredible venue and they get huge A-list acts.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: You know, I think Gracie Abrams just played there.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: You know my Morning Jacket Wilco all those guys are playing there this summer.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: They have a lot of.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: The more modern venues are outfitted with a lot of screens.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: So like when you walk into the Salt Shed, for example, there is a big screen in the entryway, there are screens in the balconies and then, most like impactfully, there are two massive iMag screens on either side of the stage.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: There's an outdoor part to it.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: So it sort of looks like this big festival stage with two huge screens on each side, and that's where we're showing up, because what they're typically putting in the on those screens is house content promoting upcoming shows, occasionally like trivia, and then we're just integrating ads 15 second static ads right now.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: It's going to evolve, some can take video, but right now we're just keeping it pretty, you know, streamlined, and you're just integrating and just essentially just have a 15 second static ad that appears in the house content that is running between sets, before sets.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: So during the actual show the ads are off, because that's when that house content is off.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: So I think that I think what's interesting about it is it seems like our industry is finally coming to a reckoning with this obsession with performance based media, finally coming to a reckoning with this obsession with performance-based media.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Why do you think that place-based media is and maybe I just that's a leading question a little bit but why do you think that there's a place-based media is really coming to be more sought after now?
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: It's like so, I guess, taking a step back, like when we are pitching brands on this idea, which we've gotten great feedback.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: We're about a year old, so we're still brand new, but growing fast.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: We've got about 80 venues right now.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: It's funny.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: We talked to out-of-home teams and they're like, wow, this isn't really place-based.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: But then other teams consider like we're somewhere in the out-of-home sponsorship because, yes, the screens are like the bread and butter, but we also just give brands access to these venues where it's their sponsorship components.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: There's access to their own email newsletters, their socials, their SMS capabilities.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: But all that to say, coming back more specifically to your question, you know I think we've gotten really heavy and it serves a purpose, of course but really heavy into the programmatic and social worlds.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: And it's sort of ironic that you say social when it's actually kind of anti-social.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: The actual media itself, because you're seeing it alone.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: And, after all, the one of the things that Brian and I talked about early on that we would laugh about is like, after all of the discussions, all of the philosophizing and the panels and the think pieces about media and about advertising, at the end of the day it ends up being like a little banner ad you see on your phone while you're sitting on the toilet.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: And the thing with place-based is, like you know, just to use that term broadly is like I don't think enough discussion has been is being had around where you're actually seeing and experiencing the ad and what the mood is that you're in and what the feeling that your brand could associate, be associated with.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Again, at a home, like frequency transit at a home absolutely serves a purpose, but you're you know I'm thinking of when I lived in New York you'd see ads on the subway and you're just kind of heads down on your phone.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: You're stressed out, you're moving, you know you certainly can see the message, but you're not in a mindset to be super receptive necessarily At least I wasn't always Whereas in a venue you're having like a special experience, you know it could be the best moment of your week, month, year and a brand has an opportunity to come in and put themselves alongside that moment and speak to this person in a way that's, you know, understanding and hopefully additive to the experience.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we often I mean to your point are hearing clients talk about resonance and relevance in the contextual moment, more and more beyond, kind of just talking about the reach.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I think you're right on there, jared.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I'm also curious when we talk about some of these venues, your mind immediately jumps to some of the larger venues or even some of those well-known venues.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: But it's interesting, right.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: One of the big challenges that these venues have is, especially in some of the more rural parts of the country, like there's not a music venue ecosystem, right, there's usually like one big place where you have to be at a certain level to perform.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: And when we look at this and you know folks who listen to this podcast a lot I've talked about some of the experience that I have outside of the working day on around economic development and you know, jared, we've talked offline about some of this, but the importance of music venues in a community to foster, you know, art and culture and that when we think about whether or not you're talking about Iron Horse in Northampton, you know what I mean.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: We talked about some of these big, big spaces.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: It's hard to build a feeder system and one of the reasons why that is is because the pro forma on a music venue is hard to get sign off on right.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: It's hard to make the math work, and so I'm really interested, as you guys are talking about this, do you see an opportunity to have this advertising revenue truly be a big driver in the ability for people to create new music venues that seem economically feasible, to create more of an ecosystem in some of these communities?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Long-winded way of getting at it, but what are your thoughts there?
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think the long-term vision is to create a sort of new way that independent venues can confidently thrive and be created without fear of getting kind of squashed by Live Nation.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Live Nation aside, it's like venues aren't making the money they once were.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: People aren't drinking as much alcohol.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Certainly, gen Z's intake is a lot lower than my generation's, and insurance costs are through the roof.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Everything is obviously a lot more expensive.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: So it is not a super high margin business.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: If you're a venue owner, what we offer is at least 60% of our ad revenue goes directly to these venues Amazing.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: So, we want to set them up for success and we want to again make the ads additive.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: We want to make them relevant for people we are reaching out to and having great discussions with a lot of brands that really make sense for this audience.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: We do not want to become like an eyesore.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: We do not want to ruin the character of these places.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: We don't want to just plaster ads everywhere.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: We want to be tasteful, we want to be respectful, but we think that this you know again, long term, like we want this to become kind of the standard thing that people expect to see in these venues and they understand why they're there.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: And again, there's maybe even utilitarian aspects to it.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Like we're looking at some ride share partners.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: We got a test coming up actually with one right now and it's like offering a discount code or a percentage off on the ride home, telling them exactly when the show ends and when to book that ride home.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Like that's an additive, nice bonus and hopefully creates a new concert going behavior.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I think that's that's right on the right on the nose, because we often see that there's this.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: There's this huge gap between musicians that can play in like a bar or a restaurant and then a huge gap towards you're able to play a venue like a state theater, right.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Right, having like a resource to make it more viable to have that missing middle within the music kind of performance venue space is really really helpful.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: And I think for Chris and I we often dialogue about we're looking for more we really love, like cinema, for instance.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: We leverage cinema more than, like, I think, a lot of other agencies because of those powerful like lean back moments, and so it's interesting to see how you know this is going to fit into plans where folks have been kind of more limited with the tools that they have, totally.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: And cinema is a good.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: You know it's an analogous media format in that it's, you know, a captive environment.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: You're getting some like-minded people in one space.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I would say what separates us and you know I'm slightly biased here and what makes us better than cinema.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: I love cinema, I'm a huge.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: So the ads are going to show up every three to four quote unquote slides within their playlist.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: So there's a lot of opportunity for creative messaging and sequential messaging and portfolio plays and to inspire conversation among a group that is truly sharing the same passion.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: And there's opportunities to really create that conversation.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Unlike cinema which, again, love, it's super impactful, it's sound on, passion, and there's opportunities to really create that conversation.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Unlike a cinema which, again, love, it's super impactful, it sound on, but it plays and then the ad is over and then you go into the movie.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: So there's not, not there's not really a lot of conversation as a group around it, versus standing around with your friends milling around, not knowing where to look.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Really well, someone else goes off and grabs all the beers and comes back.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: But that is not to say that cinema isn't an amazing, impactful format.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: It's just a slightly different tactic and there's interesting things to layer on top of anything that you're doing within the venue.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: You can layer on anything from like a geofence around the location.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: You can.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: People think I sometimes that you can if you're investing in that area that digital isn't part of the solution.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: It's like no, it's just a puzzle.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: It's absolutely a piece of it.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: It's like the screens are sort of the entry point, not mandatory as part of if you're going to be working with us or you want access to key venues.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: But that's our qualifier for working with venues is if they have substantial screen space.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: They are all ticketed events.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: The majority of these are iconic, well-known venues like Troubadour in LA, First Ave in Minneapolis, where Prince got his stars, Tipitina's in New Orleans, elsewhere in Brooklyn and everywhere in between.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: And then we got a bunch of festivals like Bombershoot and Kilby, Block Party and Day in, Day out and Three Points and North Coast.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean it's yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: What advice do you give to folks who might be more digital native that are looking to invest in bringing that experience for the brand they're repping or the brand themselves to this environment?
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess, to finish off where I was trailing off in the last question is that a lot of these, most of these venues, and certainly the festivals, all have digital components to them, whether that's, you know, geofencing capabilities, whether that's sponsorship of apps, email newsletters, things like that.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: I think it's just, you know, we, when we first started this, we're like it would be great to just be a line item on a flow chart, as, like, this is a cool bell and whistle to a campaign.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: It's not the main aspect of a campaign.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: I completely understand the importance of digital and that like hyper targeting component and that performance, but I do also think that sometimes we've gone a little all in too quickly on some of it and it's questionable when you get the results.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: I mean there's obviously a lot of fraud and one of the things that we like to say with this is you could see the ad, right.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: I mean that's sort of the beauty of at a home.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: It's like there.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: It is Like there's no other place it's going to show up other than these screens.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: And when we talk about social and digital and you know, programmatic, it's like you never, you're not always sure where this stuff's ending up and certainly you can't control when it's showing up always.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: So, you know, I think one of the struggles we've had, certainly with more with agencies, is that we're a new company.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: It requires some like vetting on their end.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: It requires, you know, there's a lot of questions and we're always open and welcome to answering any and all questions.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: But I think sometimes, you know, sometimes it's a bigger.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Tolerance on the agency side is lower sometimes.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's the risk tolerance and it's also, you know, being an agency guy myself for many years, I know how this works.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just like it's just easier to put the money in here because we know it kind of works and we can throw it.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: It's like conveyor belt we talk about all the time here is like a boutique firm.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: It's like you there's it's.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: It's easier just to place it where you can click, click, boom.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: And I think there's, you know, greater risk, greater reward kind of thing.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: I, the brands that are that we are working with this summer, I'm really excited about and I'm really commend them for going, you know trying something.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Give us a tease, understandably if you cannot going, you know trying to give us a tease, understandably if you cannot, but any teases.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: So right now, um, we, we.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: I mentioned the rideshare app.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Another one is actually related to driving, which it's sort of funny because it it it works nicely in tandem with this rideshare partner.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: You know there's there's basically two big ones, use your imagination.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: But another one that we're working with is actually the Illinois Department of Transportation Don't Drink and Drive campaign, smart.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: So they have a really cool campaign called it's Not a Game and it's sort of these eight-bit graphics.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: It's cool, creative and it's all about messaging around like this isn't a video game, you can't crash your car and just bounce back, like this is real life, and they're really like cool, retro, tongue-in-cheek but very important messages.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: So we're working there with just in a in a chicago, only buy right there.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: So we can do it by markets.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: We can even go as granular as venues themselves, but we try to sell that In an ideal world, we're selling this as a national package for a month, like you would a standard at-home flight.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: That makes sense.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Again, that's further down the road, perhaps, because that's quite a risk for a brand to just be like, yeah, let's just go for the whole thing.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: But we think there's value in that because you're to just be like, yeah, let's just, let's just go for the whole thing.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: But we think there's there's value in that because you're really just, it's an audience play.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: You're hitting these people who are really, you know, it's heavy Gen Z, it's majority, 75% Gen Z, early millennial audience.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Who who you know?
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: They're all the cool kids in every market.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, we've got a bunch of stuff in Montana of all places, and they have incredible venues out there and it's like a lot of people who are in their 20s, like moved out there post-COVID.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: They're all nomads.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: They can go anywhere.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not just New York and LA, which, of course, are always going to be important, but I think that's another thing that we try to convince brands of is like look at these smaller markets Oklahoma City, minneapolis where people are over indexing, you know, in terms of moving there in droves, yes, you're not going to compete population wise in New York, but you're also not getting the clutter there you can have a greater impact.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Like we sell.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Even with some of the national brands we work with, we're constantly saying, like don't count out.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Like really having a strong local presence, Totally, totally Well, on that note, as we kind of round out here, this is all super beneficial.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You've been on the cutting edge of great media strategies for a while.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that our industry can be pessimistic about with the rise of AI.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: We're not going to go there.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: I want to know, though, like you've seen a lot, You've worked on a lot, You're now a co-founder of your own business in the media space, which is I can't even fully imagine a lot what is giving you hope and when you wake up on a beautiful day, like what we have here in Maine summer beautiful day, like what's inspiring you in the industry and in general, in your life as a co-founder?
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean a sunny day here in Maine is such a novelty that I don't even know what to do with it.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, it's too hot and it's like 72.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, it's actually perfect.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot that's inspiring.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, I you know not to get political here, but I do think, in the face of you know, kind of an existential adversity, great things happen.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: I think we're probably going to see some incredible innovation, and I won't even like touch on AI because it's just so like table stakes.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: Now I'm hopeful about AI, like in, about its integration into our lives.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: In the same way that people were scared of the Internet when it came out and scared of TV when that came Like, I think there's going to be a balance that we're going to work out and it won't necessarily, like you know, cut us all out of our jobs.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: But I do think, with the rise of things like AI and more automation, that there's going to be more emphasis on, you know, experience and emotion and like resonance and connection and real connection.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: I think, again, social people say, oh, that's all about connection.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: You're like, not really.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, at this point, it's just algorithmic stuff being delivered specifically to you, and what the beauty of Vann is is that it's you know, you're speaking to this group of people who share something and often it's like a special secret.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: I think there's going to be more in real life community activations and things that brands are going to take advantage of there, Like trying to get in and these, like you know, you could say a you know Sunny Day Real Estate concert in State Theater where there's 1500 people Like that's a niche little subculture of Portland, Maine, Sunny Day Real Estate fans and that's a special group.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: That is a very specific group.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: I think creative can get really cool there.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: I think creative is going to take some leaps and bounds.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: I think it's going to get more tailored to people in a way that, and loosen the reins a bit.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: I think the best messaging and everyone talks about you know, liquid death and yeah, you know name your brand where it's like wow, how do they do this?
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: it's like just because they just do it like it's because they're not focusing strictly on impressions.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: It's not to death.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: It's just sort of instinctive and cool and risky and irreverent and that's our hope for this environment, these environments, these indie venues, and using Vann is like have fun, and that's probably my hope for brands moving forward.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: It's just like sure you can incrementally increase conversion or whatever, or engagement by fine tuning your social strategy, which of course has its place.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: But what if you just did something really crazy and really simple and even like cheap, just take a leap, see what happens.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I think there needs to be some more risk-taking and it seems like a long way of answering that is I think people are gonna start taking a little more creative risk-taking.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: So you're leaving us, I think, on a great place.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: You're leaving us with hope for creativity taking.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: So you're leaving us, I think, on a great place.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: You're leaving us with hope for creativity, hope for innovation, hope for real connection, yes, and around like really focusing on paying attention to those more niche areas.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: And everyone knows, if you follow anything that changes in culture, it comes from smaller pockets of mobilized people.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: So that's an awesome place, dan.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks for being here.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Jared, no thanks for having me.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: This is great.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So that's an awesome place, dan.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Thanks for being here.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Jared, no thanks for having me.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: This is great.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: That's a wrap for today's conversation.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Big thanks to Jared for joining us and for building something that reminds us media doesn't have to live on a screen in your hand.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the best connections happen when you're surrounded by sound friends and a shared experience.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: If you're a brand looking to show up more meaningfully or a venue exploring new ways to thrive, check out VenueAdNetworkcom or get in touch with us here at Campfire.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: We'd love to talk about how this can be an important piece of your media strategy.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: And if you liked this episode, don't forget to follow, share with a friend, a colleague or drop us a line.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Until next time, keep tending to the fire of positive change.