Latest / The Kink Consultant / Ep 35 – What It’s Really Like to Have a Spanking Fetish: Kai and Sarah’s Story of Suppression, Self-Acceptance, and Finding Each Other (Part 1)

Transcript

Ep 35 – What It’s Really Like to Have a Spanking Fetish: Kai and Sarah’s Story of Suppression, Self-Acceptance, and Finding Each Other (Part 1) · The Kink Consultant

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It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
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to it. Hello and welcome to this week's
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episode of The King Consultant. I am genuinely so excited to
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have my 2 guests here today because they are fellow Spankos,
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which means we have been speaking the same language since
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before we knew what that language really was.
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And I always love to have fellow Spankos on the podcast.
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Kai and Sarah, thank you so much for joining me.
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Yeah. Thanks for having us.
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We're definitely very excited to get to talk with you.
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As a little bit of background, Kai is infamous in the Spanko
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scene, but and it took me a while to realize that Sarah is
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infinitely more popular and famous than Kai.
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She is everywhere on the Internet as a very famous Spango
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bottom. And Speaking of her bottom, I
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saw it years before I ever even knew who she was.
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So it's a small world. The connections are shocking
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when you really put everything together.
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And one of the things that probably tied all of us
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together, well, at least Sarah and me, is we were on a good
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Spankin's pod, not together years apart.
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But so, like, I had listened to your episode and everything I
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think is the perfect segue to this entire conversation.
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So I'm going to address an elephant in the room.
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I think each one of us and I almost probably speak for every
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Spanko. We have this fairy tale thing
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that like, oh, we're going to find someone and we're going to
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turn them into the Spanko partner we've always desired.
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Do you both feel that you have succumbed to that sort of like
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false narrative repeatedly? I think that's a great way to
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put it. I have spoken about this book.
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There's a very popular book, at least in the Spango community,
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called Sex with Shakespeare by Jillian Keenan.
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And her book basically sold that fairy tale, not nefariously or
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anything like that, just that was her story to that point.
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Sarah, I would love your background of like when you're
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on a good Spankins podcast, you basically were married but
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exploring outside of the marriage consensually, correct?
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Yeah. Not married long term, Got it.
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And not necessarily necessarily consensually either.
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It was very messy. So I've always known it's kind
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of the typical Spanko story. Always knew it was different
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somehow. Just intrinsically knew that.
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Don't know how I knew that. In my teenage years I really,
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really tried to get boyfriends to spank me and everyone thought
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it was super weird. Were they not just excited to
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like, make you happy? No OK boys wanted to touch my
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boobs and I. Yes, boobs were a big thing.
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To be touched. A couple of them tried, but it
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was painfully obvious that they were uncomfortable.
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It was not fun for me or them or anyone.
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It's so reluctant. My very early 20s I met someone
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11 years my senior, got married and well, he seemed really into
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it with me in his own way. I introduced him to it, he
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seemed really into it and then got married.
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Two days after we were married it turned actually violent and
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it turned out that he was actually just sadistic.
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Like psychopathic. Just a really, really bad person
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and he used it against me. So got out of that marriage
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quickly for essentially the next like 8 years.
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I completely suppressed the side of myself because in my like
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early 20s something brain he convinced me that I had brought
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this out in him. And I really believed that for a
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few years. So that leads me to being 30 and
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finally, you know, like over and over again, I kept thinking I
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could just suppress this side of myself, just will it away.
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And I could have just a quote UN quote normal life and all the
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things that so many of us with fetishes desperately,
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desperately yearned for and what?
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But every time I did that, my needs came back with an even
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bigger vengeance than they had before.
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So I started going to spanking Tube and I came across a good
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spanking's videos. I got in touch with him and he
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and I got along really well Before we ever even met in
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person. I decided that I wanted to have
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one experience, just like 11 experience ever and then I would
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be good and then I could continue on with my life and I
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wanted. I did not tell my boyfriend.
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I had like a series of rules with a good spanking, like my
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pants stayed up everything. It was really just an over
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clothes spanking. I had that experience and it was
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as world changing as it is for so many of us.
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It was not just one time, and that lent eventual dissolving of
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that relationship I was in with. Everything else going well in
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that relationship, was it really just that the spanking was
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missing and you knew there was more there for you?
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Yes, got it. That could have been a lifelong
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partnership if I weren't wired sexually the way that I am.
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So that ended that relationship. And then I really started
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exploring, and a lot of it at first was with a good spanking
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and we made a few videos together.
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I started dating because a good spanking and I were just
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friends. We weren't dating, just
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spanking, just hanging out. And yeah, so I started dating
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and I met a really amazing person, Heatseeker, and he and I
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had a bit of a relationship, also put out a lot of videos.
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But around that same time ish, I was involved in an accident that
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essentially kind of like stopped everything in its tracks.
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Everything in my life stopped in its tracks.
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And that's the point at which I kind of suppressed all of this
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again. And a new partner who would end
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up being my second husband and he was not Spanko.
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And then I spent the next six years suppressing all of this
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again. Suppressing or trying to get him
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to explore Which one? Yeah.
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Excellent. At first it was trying to get
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him to explore, then it was suppressing, and then it was
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kind of urgently trying to get him to explore again.
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He is a truly amazing human being and he really went there
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with me. He did every single right thing.
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He said every right word. He put me in the corner.
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He did all of the touchstone things that I need, that so many
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of us need, and there was something in the dynamic,
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something in the energy that was not there, and it always fell
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flat for me. It did not work for me.
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That makes sense and I can relate and I'm wondering if we
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can just explore it for a second Was that he wasn't getting any
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fulfillment or enjoyment out of it.
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I do think he got some fulfillment out of it.
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I do think he really enjoyed elements of it.
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I could tell from the energy between us, from the power
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exchange dynamic, from like all of those things that are so
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difficult to put your hands on and define what I get from it.
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And because of that, because I could tell that power exchange
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wasn't real in that very identity level way, it just
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didn't work for me. It often made me feel
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uncomfortable, which is a really upsetting way to feel when
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ostensibly you're getting your needs met and your partner is
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doing everything they could possibly do to fulfill your
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needs. It's relatable and it's tough
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and I just imagine I wouldn't feel very seen because it's
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almost worse when they're doing all of the things and it's still
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not working. Sure, he didn't feel seen
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either. The magic wasn't happening, the
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spanko chemistry wasn't there for sure.
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I would say the DS at times like that element was there, but that
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isn't my core need like that. Great.
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Dominance and submission is not what's going to drive you or
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drive this for you. OK, it's great and I love it,
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but that does not fulfill the thing that needs to be fulfilled
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for me. Just from a good Spankin's
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podcast that I listen to, like at that time you were in the
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stage of this. OK, They're doing the thing.
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It doesn't feel perfect, but it's good enough.
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And this is like, at least I'm getting this.
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Everything's fine. Yeah, totally.
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And you know, that podcast really was the pivot point
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obviously, for my life shifting because I did that podcast.
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And in that podcast, to your point, like I was happily
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married, he was spanking me. I talked a lot in that podcast
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about the fact that it was working, that I found a partner
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who even though he wasn't Spanko, even though like we
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don't have the same sexuality, we managed to bridge it and make
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it work. As a part of that podcast, I put
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a call out for women who might want to taught me because that
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felt safer to me and my husband to experience that with a female
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Spanko. And I was really craving that at
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that time. And that was the catalyst for
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everything changing because a really wonderful kind woman did
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contact me and spent a weekend at our house and spanked me all
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weekend. And I was like, shit, after that
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happened was at that point I recognized that everything that
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I thought was working honestly was kind of like a pale shadow
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of what it could be. And I remembered what that
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fulfillment felt like. Yeah, I feel you on that.
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I feel that when that fulfillment isn't there, but you
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can sort of trick yourself a little bit, it's sort of like,
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oh, if you squint your eyes and sort of look through a glass,
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it's working. Yeah, ironically I talked all in
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this podcast for hours about how I was making it work with a non
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Spango and then immediately after that was no longer true
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and that led to the gradual falling apart of that marriage.
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I mean, I don't want to blame the podcast, but my relationship
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also fell apart after that podcast.
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You know when he listens to this one sometimes I'll have just see
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if he contacts me about that. He's amazing, kind of we all.
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Love him. We absolutely do.
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There's the reason that like we were on his podcast that
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obviously had nothing to do with the podcast, but it is very
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funny that we share that comment.
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So what were your next steps like once you realized, wait,
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this isn't working? It's something I actually need?
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Where do you go from there? Well.
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I went to Pet Life. I started really just looking
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around again and my husband and I were very open about
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everything that was happening. Like, he knew kind of what I was
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going through. He knew that I really needed
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this. And so I ended up playing with a
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guy around that same time, Kai and I had started talking and
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then we got back in touch after I put out a call for advice on
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Fetlife. The short version of that story
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is that I literally had bad blistering from the spanking
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that I got from the guy that I had played with, and I
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especially wanted to do proper wound care.
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So I put out a call to other bottoms saying, hey, other
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people who've dealt with us, give me some feedback.
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And of course one guy was on there and was super obnoxious
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and was like, oh, you really just need to talk to your doctor
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about this. It was a stupid back and forth.
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But ultimately I said, well, I have had a lot of bad
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experiences with doctors and I really greatly dislike them, so
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I will not be doing that. And Kai got in touch with me and
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he was like, well, I'm really sad to hear that you don't like
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doctors, but here's some advice on how to take care of this
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problem. I do think among the different
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aspects of our story that we do often kind of come back and
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laugh about this part, but I think it is just a relevant
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story because I think a lot of Spinkos are just people go
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through this. You know, we, we got in touch
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and we chatted for a bit and it was pretty straightforward
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chatting and then we lost touch for several months, three months
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maybe. 11 weeks, I remember that because you made such a big deal
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about it and. You know, and before that it had
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been pretty straightforward. And on this random chance that I
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saw, she posted something and decided to reach back out again,
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make a joke about it. We connected incredibly deeply
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from there, which is I would never encourage people to be
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obnoxious about continuously messaging people who don't want
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to message with you. But I think for a variety of
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reasons, we all pop in and out of touch in the scene, and I'm
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just glad that like, our paths cross back over again.
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So you had spoken a little bit, but it was very surface level.
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Yeah. It was interesting and engaging.
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But it was mostly just like, what are the things that you
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really enjoy? And, you know, we didn't.
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And we go beyond that into real life or, you know, going into
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the deeper aspects of the identity level stuff.
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Yeah. We are as a person.
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Oh yeah, cuz like that is the deeper stuff.
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And I think that we all have this really common thing.
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I know the first National Party I went to, like everyone asked
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me. So when did you know you were
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into this? And I was like when I was 5, you
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when I was 5. And then I'm like, why are we
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all asking each other this question?
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Like it seems like we all very much have a similar answer, but
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we still have those baseline conversations before getting
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into some of like, well, what parts do you like?
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And not like, cuz there are nuances.
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All right, Kingster, let's talk about pleasure.
13:21
Not just mine. Yours too.
13:23
If you're enjoying this episode of The King Consultant, I need
13:26
you to do me a little favor and I promise it'll feel oh so good.
13:31
Take a second and give this podcast a five star rating.
13:34
Just imagine your finger sliding all over that fifth star,
13:38
pressing down, giving it exactly the kind of attention it
13:41
deserves. Yeah, that's it.
13:44
And you know what happens when you do?
13:46
I get all hot and bothered knowing you're out there showing
13:49
your appreciation. Plus, every time you leave a
13:52
review, a naughty little brat somewhere gets that spanking
13:55
they've been begging for. So be a good listener and tap
13:58
that star, won't you? Thanks, love.
14:01
Now let's get back to the fun. I think there's something
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reassuring too or I'll speak for myself.
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I felt so weird for my entire life until I find this
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community. Like having it reiterated by
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other people, that's like, Oh no.
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They also knew at the age of four or five is comforting in a
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way. I wonder if that's part of it.
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It's kind of like just establishing that like, OK, you
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are in that kind of core group too.
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That's a good point, it was my first party so everyone I met
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was just meeting me for the first time, whereas I feel when
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you 2 show up to parties you must be pretty well known by
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now. Yeah, I think people who are
14:41
around Fetlife, a lot of them have gotten to know me, whether
14:44
it's from my photo captions or my writings.
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And most people who've been on spanking tube have seen my wife.
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But there's still a broad aspect of the community who don't know
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me well or, you know, I'm not active on Twitter or whatever X
14:58
whatever it is now. Or, you know, they're niches of
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Spankos too, I think. That's true.
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Yeah. They're we're hidden in multiple
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different pockets of the Internet.
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And for me, it was Fetlife. I would see your pictures.
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And I what really shocked me is I was like, I was at the party
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he was at. How did I not see him cross
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paths with him? Yeah.
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We've only been to national parties since we've been
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together, so neither of us went to national parties before we
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were together. We intentionally most have
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sessions with or play with people who we've gotten to know
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well established friendship and trust with.
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It's rare that I'm, if I'm playing publicly in the suite,
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it's with somebody else doing a fun thing like double strapping.
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But it's rare that I'm playing with people I haven't
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established rapport with. So I'm not maybe not as public
15:40
in that way. And there's enough people that
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we've talked to and established friendships with who want to
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have scenes or want to meet up that that's the main way that we
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play. A lot of the parties for us are
15:51
more meeting people socially and getting to talk with them.
15:53
But just to explain what double strapping is, I've seen you
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double strap but like a lot of people out there have not
16:00
experienced it. You and somebody else will top
16:03
someone. One on each side, each with a
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leather strap. Usually with one of a couple
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close friends of mine, you know, and it's more of a fun thing,
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but it's really interesting to get into that rhythm with
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somebody where you kind of build an intensity and then come back
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down. It was a really fascinating
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rhythm to it. That's really a.
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Yeah, so it's the rhythm it's and it always draws a crowd.
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I think of people who are like watching this happen because
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it's a little risky when there's 2 tops instead of just one and
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they're both topping at the same time.
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Yeah. Going back to this, you and
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Sarah, you were talking online. How long were you talking before
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you both met in person? We chatted a bit, we had our I
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guess. 11 week break. Remember so well and then we
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chatted for months before we met in person.
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Maybe four or five months, close to half a year I would say
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maybe. That's like a long time, but I
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guess it's also very common in this thing we do.
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You don't live in the same place as a lot of people who share
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your interests. So unless you're booking a
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flight that weekend and most of us don't have that luxury, time,
17:04
money, all of the things, it's kind of how it goes.
17:07
Yeah, Especially living in Hawaii, that's been a lot of my
17:09
experience. I have a lot of time to get to
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know somebody before we are in a similar geographic location.
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But I think it is common in general.
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I mean, I think even for friends of mine who live in cities that
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have larger spanking scenes, to go back to what you said, there
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are a lot of interesting nuances to this thing we do.
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It surprised me both how many things, a lot of share in
17:31
common, but also how many nuances and differences sort of
17:35
define the different areas and interests and connections.
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So I think it's very common to, you know, their closest friends
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or the people you identify the most with might not be in your
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area, even if you have spankos who are in your area.
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But even if you identify a lot with them, it still might not be
17:51
the same. Like your interests might not
17:53
align. Some people are super into the
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punishment side of this and I think you're one of those
17:57
people. Whereas others are like I
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actually hate it. I just want to spank.
18:01
A lot of my listeners know I am into the punishment and
18:04
discipline side. Like I think I just made a video
18:05
this week that I got some feedback on this.
18:07
It's very intense and honest. I explained that it is the
18:10
discipline side for me. Like I need both.
18:12
Spanking can only get me so far. It's the discipline.
18:15
The way I often explain it is that I see myself as having two
18:21
kind of core fetishes. I have a fetish for spanking and
18:25
that's kind of been like the lifelong thing ever since I can
18:28
remember to back to my early memories.
18:30
Anything relating to spanking has just sent like electrical
18:33
shocks through my body and I've just felt this fascination
18:36
towards it that I don't feel with anything else.
18:38
And I also would say I have a fetish for discipline and I do
18:42
enjoy discipline on its own. You know, if I'm doing long
18:45
distance discipline with someone or I enjoy, you know, having
18:47
people do corner time or writing lines, even if there's no
18:50
spanking involved, I enjoy the headspace and the dynamic that
18:53
comes with discipline and accountability, right?
18:56
Typically discipline for me is we set goals and standards and
19:00
if they're not met, then there's consequences.
19:02
But by far my happiest place is where those two overlap, right?
19:05
So by far my happiest place is disciplinary spanking, where
19:09
there's all the typical things, the scolding, the corner time,
19:12
but there's a disciplinary tone to it where somebody is being
19:15
punished or disciplined for a specific thing and the focus is
19:18
around. That and then you get this
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making on top of it, bringing your favorite things together.
19:22
And the spanking has a different tone to it for sure.
19:24
Especially different from maybe writing lines, which is
19:26
something you don't even need to be there to witness.
19:28
You see the end result. I feel cheeky even asking this
19:30
question, but what do you get out of it?
19:32
Like telling someone to write lines because you're not part of
19:35
that at all. You're not even really
19:37
witnessing. It, I think it's the headspace
19:39
and the dynamic that comes withholding someone accountable
19:44
and helping somebody to achieve things that they want to achieve
19:48
or things that will help them in a certain way.
19:50
Obviously that can happen directly with spanking is a
19:53
direct intervention in a disciplinary sense.
19:55
It's this behavior needs to change.
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And now I'm going to spank you. And, you know, we could get
19:59
really far into the weeds with that, with how behavior changes
20:03
in that way. But yeah, I know.
20:03
I think it's just that dynamic with somebody that if a spanking
20:06
can't be administered right away, you know, to have
20:09
consequences for what was agreed upon.
20:11
You do think the discipline does change behavior?
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I think that accountability is one of those powerful ways we
20:17
have as humans to change behaviors, and I think that for
20:21
certain of us, discipline is the an expression of that that
20:25
really works for us. You 2 finally me, six months
20:28
after starting to talk. Once we started talking, we
20:32
talked extensively. We both really enjoy writing and
20:35
we both really enjoy thinking through things and so we we
20:39
talked and a lot of depth about a lot of things.
20:41
So we really had connected really well.
20:43
I just want to explain as someone who met Kai and ended up
20:47
on like we messaged on Fetlife and then Telegram when Kai says
20:51
talked about a lot of things. If Sarah was matching your
20:54
energy, you must have been writing novels together because
20:58
Kai doesn't just write 3 paragraphs, he writes 30
21:03
paragraphs and you might respond with three because it's like
21:06
overwhelming. But I'm imagining Sarah was
21:09
matching that energy. Yeah.
21:10
I mean, the first time that we hung out with you, we were going
21:14
to hang out for a little bit and we talked for like 3 hours,
21:16
right? It was like, oh, come over and
21:18
I'll spank you. And like that, Bear really
21:21
happened. Three hours later, like, Oh
21:23
yeah, we were going to have a spanking, weren't we?
21:24
Similarly to Sarah, it was later in my life, I was 30, was the
21:29
first time I ever truly gave like a true spanking to another
21:32
Spanko where it could really be a spanking.
21:34
I knew in that moment that this was a pivotal life changing
21:38
moment. I had to have this in my life.
21:40
I couldn't go back to a life without this.
21:41
Meeting Sarah was another one of those pivotal moments where it
21:45
was like the nuance is a line. This is what it can be like to
21:49
experience this with somebody who's on that wavelength with
21:52
you. Sarah and I are both discipline
21:54
fetishists and energy just aligned incredibly.
21:57
Those three videos that are the first 3 videos we posted on
22:00
Spanking Tube are from the first time that we met.
22:03
That's one snapshot of that kind of weekend.
22:06
That energy was just such a unique experience to feel like
22:10
this is the headspace and everything just lines up in a
22:13
really special way. Did it feel different than
22:16
anything you'd ever experienced before with each other?
22:19
Yeah. Yes and no.
22:20
Yeah. I think in terms of the nuance
22:23
of the fit was exceptional because you know like Spanko's
22:28
we run the gamut in terms of like more discipline oriented
22:32
or. Or just really fun or stress
22:35
relief. Some people really wanted to
22:36
just kind of be a fun stress relief thing, so.
22:38
Like there's something very, very special about playing with
22:41
any Spanko, especially when you haven't done a lot of that.
22:44
But when you find that perfect fetish alignment we were so
22:49
lucky to have found in each other, it really increases, I
22:53
would say, the connection and the energy and all of those
22:56
things. We've each had amazing
22:57
experiences with other people too.
22:58
We had also connected on such a deep level personally in the
23:03
months leading up to this, so there was that build up there as
23:05
well where we just had a really amazing relationship in that
23:08
way. Build up can be dangerous too,
23:10
right? Because like you do not know
23:12
what the in person chemistry is going to be.
23:14
So it's almost like I hate having pen bells because I'm
23:17
like, am I actually going to enjoy being in person with them
23:20
as much? So that's like the gamble too.
23:22
For us with where we each were part of what made this such a,
23:27
an appealing situation for both of us as we were both married
23:31
with partners who knew it was quote UN quote safe because we
23:35
were both married and trying to do this to save our marriages.
23:39
And so the stakes felt a little bit lower because if the Spanko
23:45
energy in person or the chemistry wasn't there, we could
23:49
still have this personal relationship.
23:52
But we weren't relying on the other thing so much.
23:56
We weren't looking for a romantic connection, I guess,
23:59
right? That's a really good way to put
24:00
it based on like where you both were, you were both married and
24:04
trying to explore outside of your marriage to have your needs
24:06
met. But I'm assuming the goal was to
24:09
stay within your marriages. That was the goal.
24:11
And it also, because we're sitting here right now, didn't
24:14
go according to plan. So where did it go from here?
24:17
Like how do you go from 2 married people exploring this
24:20
kink yeah to not married and now married to each other?
24:24
We both had very different situations in it.
24:28
My ex-husband was incredibly supportive and like Kai even
24:35
came like flew to our house in the center of the United States
24:40
from Hawaii and spent like the weekend with us and.
24:43
In the house with both of you. Yeah, that's how it's been.
24:47
It was with my ex-husband. I had like a hotel, but then I I
24:51
spent most of my time with both of them.
24:52
Yeah, yeah. So my ex-husband was very
24:55
supportive of my explorations. And I will say in my case or the
25:02
way that I process that is very complicated because essentially
25:06
what that means is that he had a front row seat to watching me
25:10
very slowly fall in love with Kai.
25:13
It got pretty messy from that perspective, like the fact that
25:19
he really knew everything and saw everything, who watched it
25:22
happen. Overtime.
25:23
In slow motion, but that's very different from guys.
25:26
Yeah. Which was, you know, similar
25:28
intentions, but I was married to someone who just fundamentally
25:32
found the fetish difficult to work with within a marriage, but
25:36
in particular, fundamentally found my need for spanking to be
25:40
something that she really couldn't tolerate or work with.
25:43
And it just had triggered trauma responses in her and then just
25:46
ended up being something that didn't work with her.
25:49
It was kind of a hard stop in that way for us.
25:52
I was trying to see if exploring this outside of my marriage
25:55
could allow us to stay married. There was a little bit of
25:58
playing around with this in a fun way when I first got married
26:01
to my ex-wife. And then throughout our
26:03
marriage, it became something she wasn't interested in.
26:05
And I did finally hit a point, this was years before Sarah and
26:08
I met, where I realized that my fascination with spanking was
26:12
far greater than my fascination with other sexual intercourse or
26:16
other aspects, that other people were much more predominant for
26:19
them. So it came to be in my marriage
26:21
that I had to introduce this. And, you know, we ended up
26:25
talking about trying to explore this to find a way to make it
26:27
work and did a lot of therapy, which helped in a lot of other
26:30
ways, but it didn't help us work out.
26:32
This was one of the core issues it sounds like.
26:34
You know, we had other things we were struggling with, but this
26:37
ultimately, this was just a hard roadblock.
26:39
There was no way to navigate around the fact that I had an
26:43
intrinsic or need that wasn't something that she could
26:46
interact with or accept or or feel comfortable with. 100% that
26:50
makes a lot of sense. So you found each other to sort
26:54
of like have your needs met and it grew from there it.
26:58
Did almost simultaneously came to similar realizations, just in
27:02
very different situations. As our divorces were happening,
27:06
as things were unfolding, we made a really conscientious
27:08
effort to like, we know that we're very connected.
27:12
We know how good this is, and we also know that there's so much
27:16
we don't know yet. So we decided intentionally
27:19
after we got divorced for basically six months, to not
27:23
necessarily be exclusive and to give each other space to figure
27:28
out what we needed and what we wanted.
27:30
During that time, we did spend a great deal of time together.
27:34
I flew out for a month at a time to spend time in Hawaii.
27:38
The way that I really processed coming to getting divorced and
27:43
coming to CHI was, and a lot of people don't understand or
27:47
believe this nuance, but it is a very important one for me.
27:51
I didn't leave my marriage for Kai.
27:55
I left my marriage because of what Kai showed me was possible.
28:00
I knew that it was totally possible that we might not live
28:04
well together or there may be things that just didn't work
28:07
between us. So when I left my marriage, I
28:10
was like, OK, I cannot believe that this connection can't
28:14
exist, and the very fact that this connection can exist is why
28:18
I can't be in a situation that doesn't have that connection.
28:23
Does that make sense? That makes total sense.
28:26
It really hits the nail on the head of you didn't leave your
28:29
marriage for one specific person at all.
28:32
It was very much just a this is what the right thing feels like.
28:36
Yes. So I owe it to myself to have
28:38
the right thing. Exactly.
28:39
We talk a lot about like opening Pandora's box or like you can't
28:42
unknown something, to paraphrase Glennon Doyle, who we both read
28:47
Untamed at a similar time as we're going through this stuff
28:50
too. You know, once you know and
28:52
understand this bigger truth or this new truth, that's a more
28:57
true thing for you, you can't go back to pretending that that
29:01
doesn't exist, right? So like, once you know and
29:04
understand that this bigger truth is is real, you know, you
29:08
almost have to act up on it in a way.
29:10
I agree with it completely. The thing that's scary and the
29:13
thing I just want to like, say out loud is we're dealing with a
29:16
really small community of people though.
29:18
Like we have no way of knowing how many people actually share
29:22
this thing that we do in common. But for us, it's not an infinite
29:26
pool. It's not like there's a Tinder
29:28
full of people into this. There's not even a Fetlife full
29:31
of people into this because this is like a sub sect.
29:33
When I got divorced, I said out loud to myself many times.
29:38
This can probably sound more depressing when I mean it too.
29:41
I am making this choice and I might be choosing to be alone
29:44
for the rest of my life, and I have to be OK with that.
29:47
That's how deeply I was processing and how strongly I
29:51
felt about it. But again, like for me, because
29:55
of what Kai and I have showed me, I knew I needed to take that
29:59
risk. But that's not to say it's not a
30:02
huge risk. What I would hope is that hope
30:05
can bloom from this. Kai shouldn't exist who like I
30:10
fit with on every vanilla level and every fetish level so
30:14
beautifully and so perfectly like he should not exist.
30:18
When I got divorced, I also found that very comforting.
30:20
The fact that somebody does exist that can fit me in this
30:24
way makes me see that it is possible for any of us.
30:28
It's possible. It doesn't mean it's going to
30:30
happen for any of us. I'm not trying to put on rose
30:32
colored glasses, but I took a lot of hope from.
30:36
That I think it's important also to acknowledge that this is the
30:39
truth we came upon. But we have friends who live
30:43
their lives and make choices in a variety of ways for a variety
30:46
of reasons. Find happiness in a variety of
30:48
ways. I don't think you could ever say
30:50
that the only true path is to find somebody else who shares
30:54
your spanking fetish, right? There are a wide variety of ways
30:57
to do things in a healthy way and still have access to the
30:59
things you need. But we feel really compelled to
31:03
share our stories, especially because going through divorce,
31:08
even in the situations that we were in was truly gut
31:12
wrenchingly terrible and heartbreaking.
31:14
And just knowing that, you know, especially if people are out
31:16
there who someday listen to our podcast, anybody who's dating
31:20
and thinking about this, it's just something to consider.
31:22
There are a variety of reasonable choices to make, ways
31:26
to be happy, but choosing to marry someone where there is a
31:31
core incompatibility, if it comes to the point that doesn't
31:35
work out, that's a really hard, terrible thing.
31:37
I wish dating a younger I had more acceptance of this or more
31:40
understanding this. I think it is just, I know, and
31:44
I'm I get comments from making this analogy, but I know that
31:46
it's not exactly the same, but we relate it sometimes to each
31:50
of us have people we're very close with who are gay or
31:53
lesbian. And I would never tell my gay
31:56
friend, give up on that and just find someone who works for you
31:59
because that's a really core impatibility.
32:01
And this unfortunately or fortunately, or however you want
32:04
to look at it, it touches sexuality that goes beyond
32:06
sexuality, right? It's identity.
32:08
It's a language that we speak. It's a way we communicate.
32:11
So you know, so it's intimacy, it's connection.
32:13
It's on so many levels, it affects us and it's just
32:16
something to know that a difficult thing to have
32:19
incompatibility in that way. Sarah, what you said earlier,
32:22
it's not super depressing. It's sort of like you are
32:24
choosing you over being incompatible with someone for a
32:27
long time. Like you are not the only person
32:30
in our community who I've heard say that and then also find
32:33
someone. And it's like a level of
32:35
acceptance, the relationship you both share and what you've
32:38
found. You're actively right now
32:40
practicing domestic discipline, right?
32:43
Can you explain exactly what that is?
32:46
Yeah, between the two of us, I would say generally we come up
32:50
together in a sense with structure, not necessarily even
32:55
rules, but kind of like structure or sometimes rules
32:58
that, well, I guess for both of us really.
33:00
But I'll just say from my perspective right now, really
33:03
help me thrive in my life. And it goes beyond that.
33:07
Like it goes into playful things too, or I get very, very sassy
33:11
and you know, I have ways of doing what I call poking the chi
33:15
bear where I can elicit what I want.
33:17
So it's obviously like a lot more fluid than just structure
33:19
or rules. But like I would say the basis
33:21
of it is structure and rules that when I find myself outside
33:27
of that structure, we use accountability and discipline to
33:31
bring me back in. But let's say for us, there's a
33:33
lot of consistent negotiation around a lot of it.
33:37
There's different ways that different people approach this.
33:39
So for us, it's important that in core ways in our marriage, we
33:42
are equal. Like we make major decisions
33:44
together. We view each other with so much
33:46
respect and equality. But Sarah has submitted to this
33:50
background power exchange where I have the authority within our
33:54
marriage to spank her or to use methods of discipline if there
33:57
are reasons for it, which, you know, which is kind of broad.
34:01
And then we also do establish certain guidelines or structures
34:04
to benefit her or both. Would you describe your
34:06
relationship as a 24/7 power exchange?
34:10
When people hear 24/7, they think different things, but I
34:12
think that there is always is an undercurrent of power exchange
34:16
in our life that could be invoked at any time.
34:18
And that doesn't mean it's visible or expressed 24/7, but
34:21
there is a certain authority that's been given to me within
34:24
our marriage that could be invoked at any time.
34:26
So in that sense it kind of is 24/7, like at any point in time
34:29
it is always there under the surface.
34:31
I would agree with that and like Kai was saying, it wouldn't be
34:34
visible to us necessarily. But I feel it all the time and I
34:38
know exactly what I need to do if I want to elicit a certain
34:42
reaction from Kai. Else might notice, but I notice
34:46
when he gives me the little sideways glance look that I
34:50
know. It's landed.
34:51
Whatever you were trying to achieve has worked.
34:54
Able to be communicated so subtly, yeah.
34:57
So it's definitely a 24/7. I would say it's an intrinsic
35:00
part of the fabric of our relationship.
35:03
Yeah, when we wrote our own wedding vows for each other, we
35:06
included language related to that in our wedding vows.
35:09
And would I have picked up on those and then the vanilla
35:12
community would not have or? Oh no.
35:14
Well, these were our wedding vows for each other and it was
35:17
very obvious. But I would say though that like
35:20
there are some that like yes, you would pick up on that others
35:24
wouldn't like that We have really explicit ones too, but
35:27
there were more subtle ones too. Very cool.
35:29
OK, I'm really glad you guys addressed it.
35:31
Like we didn't leave our partners for these, but we knew
35:35
each other existed. Yeah, that's a big thing that I
35:38
want especially. It's hard for me to admit that
35:41
my mid 20s relationship, that I wasn't honest with my partner
35:45
then. But that's the sort of stuff
35:46
that so many of us go through that so many of us feel shame
35:50
about. And again, I think it's so
35:52
important to, like, share the full story so that people don't
35:55
feel so goddamn alone. So many people feel alone in
35:58
these things and it's pretty universal.
36:00
I didn't go like fully into my back story, but I've known all
36:04
my life that this was a part of me.
36:07
And until I turned 30, I never at all sought it out.
36:11
Like I suppressed it so deeply and I had such a sense of shame
36:16
and it just a sense that it was wrong in a sense that others
36:19
would never get it or understand it or accept it.
36:21
I think that's an important part of why we wanted to do podcasts
36:24
or be present on that life or why we make friends or whatever.
36:27
I think it's important not only to show the relationship advice,
36:29
but just to share the fact that you know at a young age it's OK
36:32
to accept this about yourself as a normal facet of who you are.
36:38
And it's also OK to have missteps and make mistakes along
36:42
the way. Yeah, you know, like, have to
36:44
deal with that and come back because it's very confusing.
36:46
The way that I have described it before is I feel like fetish or
36:50
power play dynamics are almost like a generation behind the
36:54
broader LGBTQ plus movement. I feel like LGBTQ has like, I
36:59
mean, arguably with a lot of things that are happening, who
37:02
knows, but it generally speaking, I feel like that has
37:05
become more mainstream, more socially acceptable, but that
37:08
plus that like the power exchange dynamics, there's still
37:12
so much cultural shame that's overlaid and there's so much
37:16
misunderstanding they're. Pathologized a lot.
37:18
There's so much cultural shame, I think, even around Kai.
37:21
Like, I don't know if it was like this for you, but the idea
37:23
that nice guys don't hit women and then like, that's your main.
37:28
It's especially hard with the disciplinary side, you know,
37:30
like with fun spankings, you can rationalize a little bit.
37:33
Like, OK, some people think this is a little sexy.
37:35
But even though at my core I was obsessed with it, the idea of
37:39
scolding a grown woman and disciplining her, you know, was
37:44
really contrary to everything I've been taught and grown up
37:47
seeing and. And as a feminist woman too,
37:49
it's really complicated from that side, highly achieving
37:52
woman who grew up feeling strong and empowered and all those
37:56
things. And then to be like, no, I not
37:57
only want but need to give up control sometimes.
38:01
It's a very strange thing. It is so strange.
38:03
It is extremely jarring. And yeah, it all comes with a
38:06
lot of shame that is sort of perpetuated by society and the
38:10
messaging we're given from really young ages.
38:13
And I know a lot of people struggle with that type of thing
38:15
of like, I shouldn't want this, so I'm going to pretend I don't
38:19
and that's the safer option or it feels like the safer option.
38:22
OK. What advice would you give to
38:25
someone who is in a relationship right now where they keep
38:30
fighting and pushing for the kink to exist and it's just not
38:35
happening? That's.
38:36
Really hard. I think the things I would tell
38:38
someone in that situation are just that this is a core
38:42
intrinsic, you know, and I think this is, you know, I'm
38:44
specifically speaking to someone with a fetish, you know,
38:47
fetishes King center. You go into this on your
38:49
podcast, but you know, a kink or like an interest in something or
38:53
you know, enjoying rougher things or just that's different,
38:57
right? In my mind then having this as a
38:59
really intrinsic core need. So for people who truly have
39:03
this as a intrinsic court need, I know people who came to it
39:06
later in life who I truly believe share the same kind of
39:09
needs I do and just didn't have the realizations as a kid.
39:11
It doesn't go away and honestly it just gets stronger the more
39:15
you try to suppress it. And I think it is important to
39:19
integrity who you are as a person to not try to kill off or
39:25
suppress the core part of who you are.
39:27
You need a way to engage with those needs, and that could
39:31
happen outside of a relationship.
39:33
And for we have friends who find ways to make that work outside
39:35
of a relationship. But if the person you're with is
39:37
shutting that down, it's damaging to your integrity and
39:42
your health. I agree with a lot of that.
39:44
I think the way that I would frame it is at the very least to
39:48
be completely honest with yourself.
39:51
Because that is the thing that I struggled with repeatedly was
39:56
convincing myself self that I was satisfied or I was OK, or
40:01
convincing myself that it didn't matter that I wasn't satisfied
40:05
and wasn't necessarily fully bringing my full self.
40:08
And I'll bring in very briefly my ex-husband again because he
40:12
said something really profound that this was the catalyst for
40:15
me to starting the divorce proceeding actually, which was
40:19
if you are not living as your whole self, you're not allowing
40:23
our relationship to be whole. That's not going to be every
40:26
part. Partners response, but that was
40:28
his response. So I think the point I'm making
40:30
is first you got to be really honest with yourself about who
40:34
you are, what your needs are. That'd be a painful experience
40:37
that can take a long time to figure out.
40:39
I'm not saying it's simple, but once you have that, I think then
40:43
being really honest with your partner because kind, I think
40:46
there are multiple ways you can navigate these things with
40:49
partners depending on the dynamic, depending on the
40:52
relationship, depending on a lot of things.
40:54
I don't think it necessarily leads to separation, but it has
40:58
to start with that honesty that you have, Kai used the phrase
41:02
integrity that you have, like full self integrity or as full
41:07
as any of us can have at any moment, and you allow your
41:10
partner to also understand what that self is.
41:14
And in the situation you described, there's conflict and
41:18
pushback, and that's being suppressed.
41:20
That's something you really have to seriously consider.
41:23
I mean to be able to be truthful with yourself and to have
41:25
integrity with yourself, you have to be able to accept and
41:29
have expression of this thing that's part of you, in whatever
41:32
form that takes. I love that advice.
41:34
It's so simple, but not something I've heard before.
41:37
The first step is to be honest with yourself or find a way to
41:40
get to that honesty. Yeah, it's just sometimes that
41:43
we find it hard to identify the fact that we are lying to
41:45
ourselves in the first place. Oh yeah, In this podcast with a
41:49
good spank. And I fully felt and believed
41:52
that it was working until immediately after when it fell
41:55
apart because I discovered through that podcast that it
41:58
wasn't working. So it's always going to be a
42:00
process, but I think being honest about where you are in
42:03
the moment and continuing to be honest with yourself and your
42:07
partner is, I think that's the key to any of it working.
42:10
I agree with that, and I don't want to get too woo woo on this,
42:13
but I think that the actual lie any of us might be telling
42:17
ourselves is that we don't deserve exactly what we're
42:19
looking for, and that's why we accept settling.
42:23
Yeah, because it's about deserving.
42:25
Yeah, yeah. Deserving or or.
42:27
Possible. And that's another thing that I
42:30
would love for people to take from our story is that it is
42:34
possible and there are people who accept it and who, you know,
42:38
can really accept the whole self and reflect that back.
42:41
It's possible. Even beyond our relationships,
42:44
some of our closest friends are the people that have come into
42:47
our life through this community who are just amazing people.
42:49
That's a great point. Truly amazing people out there
42:51
who don't even blink about, you know, accepting this and.
42:54
We're not just talking about romantic relationship.
42:57
As soon as I fully open myself up to this, some of the closest
43:01
friends I have ever made have blossomed from Spanko.
43:04
Like being a spanko and connecting on that level as well
43:08
as every other level. I love that.
43:10
OK, I think that is a perfect conclusion to Part 1 of this and
43:15
there has to be a Part 2. I talked to a lot of couples,
43:18
but your story is definitely one of my favorites.
43:20
Nothing is without difficulty is what I would say.
43:23
It's not easy for anyone. So in Part 2, we will be going
43:27
through a little bit more about how you play in the scene now,
43:30
because you are both open to play with other people,
43:33
obviously with some rules and guidelines around it.
43:36
I know that a lot of us have many questions and I'm excited
43:40
to get to ask them to you this. Has been awesome.
43:42
Thank you so much for going through your relationship.
43:45
But I know that we have a lot of listeners who have sent in
43:47
questions and followers of yours, and I definitely want to
43:51
get into those as well. All right, so join us next week
43:54
for Part 2 with Kai and Sarah. If you enjoyed this episode,
43:58
don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with
44:01
anyone who might find it interesting.
44:03
And if you have any questions or topics you'd like me to cover in
44:05
future episodes, feel free to reach out e-mail
44:08
info@thekingconsultant.com. Until next time, keep on Kinkin
44:13
on.