Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / Olympian Alexi Pappas: How To Achieve Your Ultimate Dream + Bravely Care For Your Mental Health

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Olympian Alexi Pappas: How To Achieve Your Ultimate Dream + Bravely Care For Your Mental Health · QUESTION EVERYTHING

0:00
Speaker 1: The following podcast is a Dear Media production.
0:04
Speaker 2: Hi.
0:05
Speaker 1: I'm Don Roberts, a designer, creative and activist living in
0:08
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. This is the Uncomfortable Podcast, the show where
0:11
Speaker 1: I speak with new friends, fellow activists and guests, all
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Speaker 1: united and passionate about different injustices, which is generally uncomfortable topics.
0:18
Speaker 1: It's time to dig deep into the human experience. And
0:21
Speaker 1: that's on period. It's all of let's get uncomfortable.
0:36
Speaker 2: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
0:41
Speaker 2: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
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Speaker 2: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
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Speaker 2: This is pretty smart. Olympic runner, author and filmmaker Alexi
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Speaker 2: Pappus is pretty brave or bravy, as she calls it.
1:01
Speaker 2: That's the title of her memoir. Here's a little background.
1:07
Speaker 2: Alexi's mother died by suicide when she was just four
1:09
Speaker 2: years old. Her mother's mental health struggles and death left
1:13
Speaker 2: her feeling resentful, which she said fueled her to want
1:16
Speaker 2: to be great, and great she became. She was a
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Speaker 2: national record holder in the twenty sixteen Rio Olympics. But
1:24
Speaker 2: it was what happened after the Olympics that really shaped her.
1:28
Speaker 2: She achieved her wildest dreams, and then severe clinical depression
1:32
Speaker 2: hit so badly she almost took her own life. But
1:36
Speaker 2: with the help of a doctor who helped her see
1:38
Speaker 2: her mental pain the same way as her physical pain,
1:42
Speaker 2: she has a whole new understanding and is sharing it
1:45
Speaker 2: with us today. Just a little note before we jump in.
1:48
Speaker 2: Alexi has such a beautiful brain. I had no idea
1:51
Speaker 2: before our interview how philosophical she is. We really shared
1:55
Speaker 2: a love for words, and I feel like that's something
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Speaker 2: we all share here. We dive in deep to her
2:01
Speaker 2: story and also talk about small practical changes we can
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Speaker 2: make to attend to our mental health dream. Chasing, winning, losing,
2:09
Speaker 2: and trying, Alexi Bravey is the title of your book,
2:19
Speaker 2: and it also felt like a way of thinking, what
2:22
Speaker 2: does the title mean to you?
2:24
Speaker 3: Growing up without a mom, I definitely like chased certain
2:27
Speaker 3: ideal like words that I wanted to be and those
2:32
Speaker 3: were words like pretty and strong and fierce, and they
2:36
Speaker 3: all felt like words that the world had to validate
2:40
Speaker 3: or assign to me, or were outward facing words. And Bravey,
2:45
Speaker 3: I mean it came about from this poem that I
2:47
Speaker 3: wrote on social media, which is like kind of where
2:51
Speaker 3: my poetry career went after college when I studied poetry,
2:54
Speaker 3: and it was run like a bravy, sleep like a baby,
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Speaker 3: dream like a crazy. Replace can't with maybe, and the
3:02
Speaker 3: word bravy rhymed obviously with all these other words. But
3:05
Speaker 3: I think what's stuck about it, or what I noticed
3:08
Speaker 3: people were really responding to, was that word. And I
3:11
Speaker 3: think it's because it's not you know, it's a derivative
3:13
Speaker 3: of a real word, but it's not a real word,
3:15
Speaker 3: and it's more inward facing, and it's a choice you
3:18
Speaker 3: can make. And I think I would have really benefited
3:21
Speaker 3: from having words I could just choose to be growing up.
3:24
Speaker 3: And I think that's why it's stuck, and that is
3:27
Speaker 3: why the book is called Bravy.
3:30
Speaker 2: I love the idea of choosing to be. I've never
3:33
Speaker 2: thought about that.
3:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, it's nice, like we can't choose
3:37
Speaker 3: to be everything we want in the world, but we
3:39
Speaker 3: can maybe we can, but that, you know, this is
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Speaker 3: a step in that direction, and it gives us more agency,
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Speaker 3: which is probably all we want in the world when
3:49
Speaker 3: we're trying to do challenging things, you know, very much.
3:52
Speaker 2: So you started running at a young age and realized
3:57
Speaker 2: pretty quickly that you were great at it. But then
4:01
Speaker 2: I was surprised to read you loved improv, you loved
4:04
Speaker 2: the arts, you were very creative. I mean, we just
4:06
Speaker 2: found out that you're a poet. When did you decide
4:10
Speaker 2: that running at an elite level was something you wanted
4:13
Speaker 2: to go all in on.
4:14
Speaker 3: So I was a good young athlete, and running was
4:17
Speaker 3: what I was best at in a lot of the
4:19
Speaker 3: other sports that I played. But in college I wasn't
4:24
Speaker 3: the best athlete. I was like the worst on my
4:26
Speaker 3: running team because in high school I took a few
4:29
Speaker 3: years off because these high school coaches wanted our whole
4:31
Speaker 3: team to just run, and I wasn't ready to do that,
4:34
Speaker 3: and so I didn't just run. And when I got
4:36
Speaker 3: to college, I wasn't so great at running because I
4:39
Speaker 3: hadn't been doing it. And so I found the arts
4:42
Speaker 3: and these other things which I really love still and
4:45
Speaker 3: what made me really want to commit to just running
4:48
Speaker 3: for a period of time and I was never just running,
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Speaker 3: But I think to make it my number one north
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Speaker 3: star was real encouragement from the creative advisors in my life.
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Speaker 3: And I think that was surprising to me because I
5:00
Speaker 3: expecting that when I had the choice to pursue this
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Speaker 3: kind of more olympic path or keep going with the
5:06
Speaker 3: writing path that I was on in college, I was
5:09
Speaker 3: expecting my running coaches to really pressure me into running,
5:13
Speaker 3: and my creative mentors to pressure me into the arts.
5:17
Speaker 3: But it was actually the creative mentors that were like, look,
5:21
Speaker 3: you know, your time on the track is not going
5:23
Speaker 3: to be a waste of time, but it is a
5:25
Speaker 3: really limited, special window of time when your body can
5:28
Speaker 3: do these hundred mile weeks. And so I think it
5:32
Speaker 3: was that that permission, paired with the belief that some
5:37
Speaker 3: of my coaches had in me, that made me feel
5:41
Speaker 3: like safe to take that brave leap because it's a
5:45
Speaker 3: really uncertain path, right. You're like living in Eugene, Oregon
5:50
Speaker 3: and running, and I think I've always really appreciated that
5:55
Speaker 3: kind of mentorship. I kind of wish I didn't need it,
5:58
Speaker 3: like I wish like in my but I could have
6:00
Speaker 3: made all those decisions alone. But I think that would
6:02
Speaker 3: be not the truth. I think the truth is that
6:05
Speaker 3: it is really helpful to have encouragement, and if people
6:07
Speaker 3: don't have it personally, like they don't have someone to
6:11
Speaker 3: just say like, I personally believe in you personally. I
6:14
Speaker 3: think we can still find that permission from satellite mentors
6:18
Speaker 3: that we just pretend are talking directly to us. So
6:20
Speaker 3: I think, you know, create that find that's wherever you
6:25
Speaker 3: wherever you can.
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Speaker 2: You know, I've never heard the term satellite mentors, and
6:29
Speaker 2: I love that because, I mean, we do learn so
6:32
Speaker 2: much from biographies and memoirs and other people's stories. And
6:35
Speaker 2: if you don't have someone in your immediate circle, watch YouTube, right.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and just pretend they're talking to you. Like my
6:43
Speaker 3: mentor one of them always says like, do what's useful,
6:46
Speaker 3: And I'm like, look, if it's useful to pretend this
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Speaker 3: audiobook is talking directly to you or this podcast or
6:53
Speaker 3: whatever it is, like, why not just suspend your disbelief
6:57
Speaker 3: or just decide that that's true?
7:00
Speaker 2: That And also the best podcasts make you feel that way.
7:03
Speaker 3: You know.
7:03
Speaker 2: When I listened to Glennon Doyle, I feel like I'm
7:06
Speaker 2: just in her living room with her. So yeah, So
7:10
Speaker 2: there was this passage. I don't mean to read your
7:12
Speaker 2: own writing to you, but I'm going to for a second.
7:15
Speaker 2: It was from chapter four and you write all dead
7:18
Speaker 2: people should know this. They're going to matter, even if
7:21
Speaker 2: they think they won't, and even if they don't want to.
7:23
Speaker 2: I understand now that toward the end, my mother was
7:26
Speaker 2: so sick that she didn't want to be a part
7:27
Speaker 2: of this world any longer. She thought she could fade away.
7:30
Speaker 2: But her absence meant as much to me as her
7:33
Speaker 2: presence would have. Maybe my mom thought that she was
7:36
Speaker 2: being kind to me by leaving, that because she was gone,
7:38
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have to deal with a crazy mother. But
7:41
Speaker 2: by leaving the way she did, my mother actually burdened
7:44
Speaker 2: me with the task that could have come to define
7:46
Speaker 2: my young adult life to grow up without her. So
7:51
Speaker 2: when you lost your mom you were four or five
7:53
Speaker 2: years old, only can you tell me about your childhood
7:58
Speaker 2: and what it was like growing up in your house?
8:01
Speaker 3: Before I was even born, my mom, my understanding is
8:04
Speaker 3: was had a lot of back pain and mental health
8:08
Speaker 3: pain and addiction to painkillers and just really not now
8:13
Speaker 3: I understand, not the greatest support for all those things.
8:18
Speaker 3: This was in the nineties when mental health support and
8:21
Speaker 3: I even think physical health support was just different. And
8:25
Speaker 3: when I was born, she was just not in like
8:30
Speaker 3: a huge position to be, you know, a mom right then,
8:35
Speaker 3: but definitely didn't forgive herself of those responsibilities. And so
8:40
Speaker 3: I think she tried to be a lot of things
8:42
Speaker 3: at the same time when she was really really sick
8:44
Speaker 3: or now I just call it like mentally injured, because
8:47
Speaker 3: I think that the brain is a body part really,
8:50
Speaker 3: and that she just had an injury. For me, it
8:52
Speaker 3: meant she was mostly absent. She was mostly like in
8:56
Speaker 3: and out of rehab and or hospital, like she was
9:00
Speaker 3: just like gone and then home and then gone and
9:02
Speaker 3: then home. And I didn't I was really young, so
9:04
Speaker 3: I don't remember her being around a lot. And the
9:07
Speaker 3: results that I have really only like four distinct memories
9:10
Speaker 3: of her, and three of them are really bad, and
9:13
Speaker 3: one of them is really really difficult to think about
9:16
Speaker 3: because I like saved her life one time when she
9:20
Speaker 3: was trying to take her own life. And I was
9:22
Speaker 3: just four, but knew, you know, even at that age
9:25
Speaker 3: that you know, blood and all these things I was seeing,
9:28
Speaker 3: we were not okay. And I think what it meant
9:33
Speaker 3: for me, really, I mean, look what it meant for
9:35
Speaker 3: her was this is tragic and this shouldn't have happened.
9:37
Speaker 3: Because I do think that the support I now know
9:40
Speaker 3: she got wouldn't have helped me in my own post
9:43
Speaker 3: Olympic depression, But what it meant for me as a
9:45
Speaker 3: kid was one that I would need to be really
9:50
Speaker 3: cautious around people, like people who you might feel you
9:54
Speaker 3: should feel safe around. I needed to be careful because
9:56
Speaker 3: she was kind of like really unpredictable, and so it
10:00
Speaker 3: like this empathy in the world where I think, I'm
10:04
Speaker 3: really careful and thoughtful about how my actions and words
10:09
Speaker 3: are affecting other people. And I think that's a good thing,
10:11
Speaker 3: but it's also really difficult to like tread like that.
10:15
Speaker 3: And then it also made me feel like I was
10:17
Speaker 3: gonna have to take care of myself. And my dad
10:20
Speaker 3: is amazing and raised us as a single dad, but
10:23
Speaker 3: he was really focused on, like, you know, his engineering
10:27
Speaker 3: job and like providing for his two kids, and he
10:30
Speaker 3: didn't he didn't, you know, we didn't talk about our
10:32
Speaker 3: feelings so much, and so I needed to really come
10:34
Speaker 3: up in the world as a girl on my own.
10:36
Speaker 3: And I think that's why I am so drawn to
10:38
Speaker 3: mentors and to satellite mentors, because I needed all that
10:41
Speaker 3: stuff and I felt like I needed to patchwork quiote
10:43
Speaker 3: that together for myself and then with mental health. I
10:47
Speaker 3: wasn't told how she died until seventh grade when my
10:51
Speaker 3: best friend told me. And at that point I was
10:54
Speaker 3: told that basically, she was just so sad that she
10:56
Speaker 3: had to leave, and that's not I don't think the
10:59
Speaker 3: case with the hion in mental health now. But it
11:02
Speaker 3: made me want to be nothing like her, and because
11:05
Speaker 3: that felt dangerous or if I felt anything relating to
11:08
Speaker 3: what she felt, then maybe I would have the same
11:11
Speaker 3: inevitable fate. And I really was scared of that, and
11:15
Speaker 3: it drove me to perform and to be objectively happy,
11:19
Speaker 3: and it really did, I think, get me to the Olympics.
11:22
Speaker 3: But it was not healthy and it wasn't sustainable, and
11:25
Speaker 3: it wasn't fun to feel those things while chasing those
11:29
Speaker 3: big dreams.
11:31
Speaker 2: I have so many questions, Yeah, anything based on what
11:35
Speaker 2: you said. So did you grow up resenting your mom
11:41
Speaker 2: even after her so?
11:42
Speaker 3: Not before I Yet, when I knew how she died, okay,
11:46
Speaker 3: I was like a teenager about it, honestly, Like where
11:48
Speaker 3: before that, I was like, oh, it's so sad she died.
11:51
Speaker 3: I thought she died of smoking, And then when I
11:53
Speaker 3: learned how she that she took her own life. I
11:57
Speaker 3: was really mad because I thought that was like really
12:00
Speaker 3: selfish and rude, and you know, like all these you know,
12:03
Speaker 3: I was in seventh grade, so what words I knew
12:05
Speaker 3: I used. And I stopped visiting her, which means I
12:10
Speaker 3: stopped visiting her tombstone because I used to go and
12:13
Speaker 3: talk to her and like tell her what was going
12:15
Speaker 3: on in my life, and my dad was really good
12:16
Speaker 3: about bringing us there, but I just refused because I
12:19
Speaker 3: was mad at her. And I feel like the relationship
12:24
Speaker 3: with a dead person can be just as like fluctuating
12:27
Speaker 3: and alive as if they were alive, if you are
12:29
Speaker 3: learning more about yourself or about them. And I learned
12:33
Speaker 3: more about myself and about her, So I was mad
12:36
Speaker 3: at her for a while. And I remember the first
12:38
Speaker 3: time I visited her again was like late towards the
12:43
Speaker 3: end of high school, and I felt really like I'm
12:46
Speaker 3: ready to like forgive her or something, but I still
12:49
Speaker 3: didn't understand her. I don't think I understood her until
12:52
Speaker 3: I had a post aly a big depression. So yeah,
12:54
Speaker 3: it's been a process, but we're cool now. We're really
12:57
Speaker 3: cool now.
12:58
Speaker 2: You guys are on good terms.
13:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're on good terms. I mean, I think now
13:02
Speaker 3: she's like I mean, I wrote this, but I cannot
13:05
Speaker 3: think of a better like visual other than like, she's
13:09
Speaker 3: like Puck from a Midsummer Night's Dream, who's sort of this.
13:13
Speaker 3: He's like a mischievous good fairy. And I feel like
13:16
Speaker 3: I've had a lot of good luck and a lot
13:18
Speaker 3: of like bad luck in my life, and I think
13:21
Speaker 3: a lot of that could be her. I don't know
13:23
Speaker 3: where else to attribute luck other than her, So that's
13:28
Speaker 3: a fun thing to think about. But you know, I
13:30
Speaker 3: actually had this epiphany this past week though that I've
13:34
Speaker 3: never shared because I just had it. I think a
13:37
Speaker 3: lot of my life was like trying to be not
13:39
Speaker 3: like her and creating a life where I didn't have
13:42
Speaker 3: to even like venture into that territory. And in the
13:46
Speaker 3: last couple of weeks, I feel like I've had more
13:48
Speaker 3: chance in my life to be outside of my nurtured self,
13:54
Speaker 3: which I think is like the the thing. You know,
13:56
Speaker 3: it's how you're raised, but I think it's also how
13:58
Speaker 3: your life around yourself. I was like, like listening to
14:03
Speaker 3: music in my kitchen alone the other day, and I
14:05
Speaker 3: just had these like impulses to I don't know, like
14:08
Speaker 3: dance or move or like cook and have my hair
14:10
Speaker 3: down a certain way, like just certain things where I
14:12
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I think there's like I think I
14:15
Speaker 3: there's a nature inside of me that's very much her
14:18
Speaker 3: that I've like really rejected and now I want to
14:20
Speaker 3: really let in. And that's really new.
14:22
Speaker 2: That's really big. I think that comes with so much healing.
14:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I think it's healing. And I think it's
14:28
Speaker 3: also like maybe this is why like I don't I
14:32
Speaker 3: never thought about nature versus nurture, Like I never thought
14:35
Speaker 3: about what does it matter that your half DNA is
14:38
Speaker 3: from half of one parent and the other. And if
14:41
Speaker 3: you know your parents, I think you can be like
14:43
Speaker 3: that's so my dad, that's so my mom. And if
14:45
Speaker 3: you don't, then you just get these little pulses of
14:48
Speaker 3: things inside of you, like impulses that have nothing to
14:52
Speaker 3: do with anything that you can you can't point to anything.
14:56
Speaker 3: And I think that is maybe her side of me.
15:01
Speaker 2: It's curious, does it make you feel more connected or
15:04
Speaker 2: how does it make you feel?
15:07
Speaker 3: Yeah? I feel connected. I think I used to be
15:09
Speaker 3: really afraid of her, and now I'm letting her inside
15:13
Speaker 3: of me out a little bit, and she was a brilliant,
15:17
Speaker 3: artistic woman, as I understand it, but I don't really
15:19
Speaker 3: don't know much about her at all, And so I'm
15:23
Speaker 3: excited because I think there's like a huge part of
15:25
Speaker 3: me that I haven't given space to explore.
15:29
Speaker 2: As you said, part of crafting your own life in
15:33
Speaker 2: opposition of who your mother was helped get you to
15:36
Speaker 2: the Olympics. And I want to better understand what you mean,
15:40
Speaker 2: because do you feel like the trauma you experience fueled you.
15:46
Speaker 3: Yes. I think that many athletes that I met in
15:50
Speaker 3: Rio at the Olympics might agree that we're all not everybody,
15:55
Speaker 3: but I think a lot of us are pushing up
15:57
Speaker 3: against something and that it's really power, whether it's like
16:01
Speaker 3: a poor relationship with someone or fear or traumatic experience.
16:06
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people I've met are pushing
16:08
Speaker 3: up against something and it's like a super you know.
16:11
Speaker 3: It's like the difference between playing racquetball against like a
16:14
Speaker 3: really hard surface that like the ball really bounces off,
16:18
Speaker 3: or like maybe something softer where it doesn't bounce as hard.
16:21
Speaker 3: Like I think I had like a really hard backboard
16:23
Speaker 3: to like hit against. It really drives you because I
16:26
Speaker 3: got my drive was like directly to be happy, to
16:29
Speaker 3: be successful, and to matter, like really to matter, because
16:32
Speaker 3: it felt like in my misunderstanding of her that I
16:36
Speaker 3: might not have mattered enough for her to stay right.
16:38
Speaker 3: And so I was like, I'm I will matter, and
16:40
Speaker 3: I will figure out a way to matter. And the
16:42
Speaker 3: Olympics is a really really good way to matter. And
16:45
Speaker 3: so yeah, it drives you to go to painful places
16:48
Speaker 3: and to really be disciplined and to know why you're
16:51
Speaker 3: doing things. But it's not that fun to be driven
16:55
Speaker 3: that way, and it's not sustainable and it's not a
16:57
Speaker 3: reasonable thing to ask of yourself for your whole life.
17:01
Speaker 2: I think people look at the Olympics as quasi superhuman.
17:08
Speaker 2: Do you feel like it's it almost takes that superhuman element,
17:13
Speaker 2: Like there's a driver that's coming through you, Like, yeah,
17:19
Speaker 2: is that what it is?
17:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, you're just well I don't know, because you
17:23
Speaker 3: can't put yourself in anyone else's mind or body. So like,
17:25
Speaker 3: I have no idea right like if other people, but
17:29
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that I've gone to like unreasonable places
17:35
Speaker 3: mentally and physically. And the expectation I think from the
17:40
Speaker 3: Olympian or from these people who are chasing things from
17:43
Speaker 3: that place is that at a certain point you will
17:45
Speaker 3: feel fulfilled for your void, whatever that is. And what
17:50
Speaker 3: you find is that when you get to that pinnacle,
17:53
Speaker 3: whatever that that is, usually you do not feel fulfilled
17:58
Speaker 3: in the way that you expected. Feel actually just an
18:02
Speaker 3: anxiety to find the next way to keep filling it.
18:05
Speaker 3: And that's really that's what my post Olympic depression was,
18:08
Speaker 3: was like that feeling of wanting to feel complete. And
18:11
Speaker 3: I did great and I loved it, and I did
18:13
Speaker 3: feel really really gratified as an athlete, but I still
18:16
Speaker 3: felt like I needed the next goal and I needed
18:21
Speaker 3: it yesterday. But you're right, there's like a mythical feeling.
18:26
Speaker 3: I don't want to say superhuman because I'm not gonna
18:28
Speaker 3: be like we're superhumans, but I think we're like there's
18:30
Speaker 3: a creaturely element. Well.
18:33
Speaker 2: Part of my job is interviewing people that have had
18:36
Speaker 2: these unique experiences across industries, and when you hear stories
18:42
Speaker 2: from people who are the best at what they do,
18:48
Speaker 2: so often it's fueled by just frustration or pain or something,
18:53
Speaker 2: because it's almost like there's this inner voice that has
18:58
Speaker 2: to move you along that just I don't I guess
19:00
Speaker 2: I always wonder if you can do it in a
19:02
Speaker 2: healthful way.
19:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So like can you find is there like
19:09
Speaker 3: a sustainable version of this or like a healthy version
19:12
Speaker 3: of this? Yes, okay, And I think there is. And
19:15
Speaker 3: I think that it starts with not belittling or not
19:22
Speaker 3: saying that chasing big dreams, that the dreams are the problem,
19:25
Speaker 3: because I think that it's very easy to like watch
19:29
Speaker 3: a documentary about you know, mental health and Olympians or
19:32
Speaker 3: something and be like, Wow, the Olympics is bad. It's like, no,
19:35
Speaker 3: the Olympics is not the problem. The Olympics is a
19:37
Speaker 3: beautiful gift. It's an opportunity, and so are all these peaks.
19:41
Speaker 3: Like we talked to I met Jimmy Kimmel on press
19:44
Speaker 3: for my movie Olympic Dreams, and he was saying he
19:46
Speaker 3: had the same feeling after hosting the Oscars of like
19:49
Speaker 3: this post Olympic dip. And I don't think it's the Oscars.
19:52
Speaker 3: It's really our preparation for those events and also our
19:57
Speaker 3: outlook on the journey versus the peak. And I was
20:04
Speaker 3: never someone who was told enjoy the journey and really
20:08
Speaker 3: like believe that. It just feels it felt very vapid.
20:12
Speaker 3: To be told like enjoy the journey. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
20:14
Speaker 3: yeah yeah, but like it's about the goal. And then
20:17
Speaker 3: I was on a walk in La a couple months
20:20
Speaker 3: ago and I thought about, well, I was pursuing another
20:22
Speaker 3: goal that I had that was not unlike an Olympic dream,
20:27
Speaker 3: and I was having a lot of fun chasing the
20:30
Speaker 3: goal that I had, and it was like a film
20:32
Speaker 3: related goal. And I went to bed kind of sad
20:36
Speaker 3: every night because I was so happy chasing that dream
20:40
Speaker 3: that I wanted. I was sad that I might not
20:42
Speaker 3: be able to do it forever, or that I might
20:44
Speaker 3: not get the dream that I was chasing, which would
20:46
Speaker 3: allow me to do it more. That's how sometimes creative
20:50
Speaker 3: goals work. And then I realized that like whether or
20:54
Speaker 3: not I get the goal or not, which was like
20:57
Speaker 3: I was auditioning for something, whether or not I get
20:59
Speaker 3: that role or whatever doesn't change the entire process there
21:05
Speaker 3: as long as I'm pursuing it with like integrity, presumably
21:08
Speaker 3: whether I get it or not doesn't change, like the
21:11
Speaker 3: moment from when I committed to the goal to like
21:13
Speaker 3: the moment when I find out if I get it
21:15
Speaker 3: or not. And then I realized that chasing the dream
21:18
Speaker 3: is a part of getting the dream, because I would
21:21
Speaker 3: have taken the same steps. I'm not like trying less hard,
21:23
Speaker 3: I'm not doing anything like I'm doing it just like
21:25
Speaker 3: anyone who would get it. And that was much more
21:29
Speaker 3: resonant to me than enjoy the journey. It was actually,
21:32
Speaker 3: you are in the dream as long as you're chasing it.
21:35
Speaker 3: And I think that the sustainable thing is to really
21:39
Speaker 3: relish the fact that while you're chasing the dream, you
21:42
Speaker 3: are in fact living a part of that dream that
21:45
Speaker 3: you have, and in fact, most of the time is
21:48
Speaker 3: in that chasing period anyway, Like you're spending most of
21:51
Speaker 3: your time chasing your dream, not the moment you get
21:54
Speaker 3: it or not. And so I've had a lot more
21:57
Speaker 3: fun in life, and I think it is a lot
21:58
Speaker 3: more sustainable to kind of let go of whether I
22:01
Speaker 3: get that thing or not and just kind of pretend
22:04
Speaker 3: like I'm getting it while I'm chasing it and know
22:07
Speaker 3: that that's actually the truth too. So I don't know
22:11
Speaker 3: if that answers you know, your question, but to me
22:15
Speaker 3: it feels like a step in the right direction.
22:18
Speaker 2: I agree, and I love that you are such a
22:21
Speaker 2: dream chaser, and I love that your valleys have not
22:25
Speaker 2: deterred you from chasing dreams. So I want to talk
22:29
Speaker 2: about the Olympics so that we can go through what
22:32
Speaker 2: you experienced right after. So in twenty sixteen, you competed
22:35
Speaker 2: in the Olympics for Greece. Your dad is Greek, which
22:38
Speaker 2: I didn't know, and you broke a Greek national record
22:42
Speaker 2: and then improved your own national record during the Olympic Games,
22:45
Speaker 2: which is insane. And while most people would consider the
22:49
Speaker 2: Olympics the biggest challenge of their life, yours actually hit
22:54
Speaker 2: right after. So you talk about this as your post
22:57
Speaker 2: Olympic dip. Can you explain what that was was and
23:00
Speaker 2: what it felt like.
23:01
Speaker 3: Yes, So there is a natural dip after, like any
23:07
Speaker 3: life peak that any of us have. And I think
23:09
Speaker 3: it's part literally like energy and a dreanal fatigue of
23:14
Speaker 3: like what it really takes to be committed to a
23:17
Speaker 3: goal like that. I think it's actually like pretty pretty chemical.
23:21
Speaker 3: It's why people get like sick the day after like
23:23
Speaker 3: a big pinnacle in their life. It's like your body
23:26
Speaker 3: has been like like showing up for this thing like
23:30
Speaker 3: a superhero. If we accept that as a natural next
23:35
Speaker 3: step to the moment after you chase a dream, is
23:38
Speaker 3: that you have this little dip, then I think we
23:40
Speaker 3: can navigate it gracefully and pause and let us reinflate
23:46
Speaker 3: like a little marshmallow that we've squeezed, you know. But
23:49
Speaker 3: but I did not accept that because I didn't understand it,
23:53
Speaker 3: and I was rejecting that feeling, that potential feeling for
23:57
Speaker 3: my whole life. And so instead I pushed on the
24:00
Speaker 3: gas when I should have paused. And that's the opposite.
24:04
Speaker 3: That will make it worse. Right, if we are in
24:07
Speaker 3: a little moment of needing recovery and we don't, it'll
24:11
Speaker 3: just exacerbate it. And so I felt anxiety about what
24:16
Speaker 3: was next because I didn't have a goal after the
24:18
Speaker 3: Olympics exactly. I felt I was making a lot of
24:21
Speaker 3: changes in my life to try to set myself up
24:23
Speaker 3: for momentum and success. So I had sponsored negotiations. I
24:28
Speaker 3: tried to change coaches and change events and move and
24:32
Speaker 3: any one of those things is too much. The months
24:35
Speaker 3: after the Olympics and I tried to I changed everything.
24:39
Speaker 3: I was in like what's called like a situational depression,
24:42
Speaker 3: where a number of things happened to you. It could
24:44
Speaker 3: be like a death in the family. It could be anything,
24:47
Speaker 3: your job changing, And I just like refuse to accept
24:50
Speaker 3: that I needed help because I didn't. I just didn't
24:55
Speaker 3: understand that you could just have a mental health injury.
25:00
Speaker 3: And then my dad just started to notice like comments
25:04
Speaker 3: I was making on calls to him that were red flags,
25:06
Speaker 3: like I messed my whole life up, or like I'll
25:09
Speaker 3: never be better than I was, or I want to
25:11
Speaker 3: go back in time, and things like if you ever
25:15
Speaker 3: want to be in a different time period than you're in,
25:18
Speaker 3: it's like not a healthy sign because like it's impossible
25:20
Speaker 3: and it's not logical. And I wasn't sleeping. So I
25:24
Speaker 3: was sleeping like an hour a night and running one
25:25
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five miles a week at altitude at
25:28
Speaker 3: eight thousand feet in Mammoth Lakes, and I got injured,
25:32
Speaker 3: so like another part of my safety went down, you
25:35
Speaker 3: know out and I'd never been injured. So is this
25:37
Speaker 3: all this stuff collapsed? And I just kept speeding up.
25:42
Speaker 2: Were you manic or how were you only sleeping an
25:45
Speaker 2: hour a night? Uh?
25:47
Speaker 3: Well, I don't have bipolar. My mom had bipolar manic,
25:50
Speaker 3: But I think I just had so much anxiety that
25:53
Speaker 3: I couldn't sleep, and so I was up all night.
25:56
Speaker 3: I would like walk around our condo and just like
25:59
Speaker 3: try to make myself sleep, but falling asleep is something
26:02
Speaker 3: you have to let happen, like we can't make it happen.
26:05
Speaker 3: And I just had anxiety, but like debilitating anxiety. And
26:10
Speaker 3: eventually my dad like made me get help. He like
26:14
Speaker 3: scheduled these appointments and he's like, you're going. And the
26:17
Speaker 3: thing is is I love my dad so much. It's
26:19
Speaker 3: very rare that he makes me do anything. And so
26:21
Speaker 3: I listened to him, and I was like diagnosed as
26:26
Speaker 3: like the highest risk depression you can have, like you know,
26:30
Speaker 3: had suicidal thoughts. Like I never acted on my thoughts
26:34
Speaker 3: because I just I wouldn't do that to my dad.
26:39
Speaker 3: But I definitely had these like thoughts that you can
26:42
Speaker 3: have and it's literally like it's not you, like you
26:46
Speaker 3: are not your thoughts. You have thoughts, but they were
26:48
Speaker 3: like very loud and very distracting and really scary. And
26:53
Speaker 3: so I got help and this doctor, doctor Haya, helped
26:57
Speaker 3: me understand that like when you fall down and you
27:02
Speaker 3: scratch your knee or whatever, you break your gig, I
27:05
Speaker 3: had an injury to my brain, and that's when everything
27:09
Speaker 3: started to turn around. Because I, up until that point,
27:12
Speaker 3: thought that mental health was something where if you started
27:15
Speaker 3: down that track, you could never come back because of
27:18
Speaker 3: what I was told about my mom. And he just
27:21
Speaker 3: made me feel like I could heal and that I
27:24
Speaker 3: just needed to focus on my actions, which would change
27:27
Speaker 3: my thoughts, which would eventually change my feelings. And so
27:30
Speaker 3: I committed to that like it was an Olympic goal,
27:35
Speaker 3: and he became my coach.
27:37
Speaker 2: It must have been so confusing, too, because right after
27:40
Speaker 2: the Olympics, the world sees you one way and you
27:44
Speaker 2: almost feel the complete opposite.
27:48
Speaker 3: Yes, totally, And I was doing all these appearances. I
27:52
Speaker 3: don't know. I wanted to like maintain the image. It
27:55
Speaker 3: was part of my job. I was contractually obligated. I
27:58
Speaker 3: had like to speak to young teenagers, and I felt
28:02
Speaker 3: so crazy because I was like, yes, the way that
28:05
Speaker 3: they see me and the way that I should feel
28:07
Speaker 3: on paper, because the Olympics was great matches zero of
28:12
Speaker 3: what I'm feeling, and so I just felt completely detached.
28:15
Speaker 3: And I think that's one of the things about mental
28:17
Speaker 3: health challenges is you can feel so isolated when you
28:22
Speaker 3: don't feel the way you think you should feel, and
28:24
Speaker 3: should is not a very good word to have no
28:26
Speaker 3: matter what, but I had a lot of shoulds at
28:28
Speaker 3: that moment.
28:29
Speaker 2: I understand that there's this quote I love that you said,
28:34
Speaker 2: when you're a dream chaser, if you are aware this
28:37
Speaker 2: is a chapter after you are meant to repair or recover,
28:40
Speaker 2: the downs could help to be avoided. So, through working
28:44
Speaker 2: with this doctor and having gone through this experience, how
28:48
Speaker 2: do you think people can prepare to embrace the moment
28:51
Speaker 2: after a big high?
28:53
Speaker 3: Who expect it?
28:55
Speaker 2: Like?
28:55
Speaker 3: So now, I mean, look, isn't it true. I mean,
28:57
Speaker 3: I've never had a child or anything yet, but isn't
29:00
Speaker 3: it true that they have this new term called like
29:02
Speaker 3: the fourth trimester after you have a baby, where like
29:05
Speaker 3: you're just supposed to recover and like let yourself be
29:09
Speaker 3: in this maybe postpartum depression a little bit or however
29:13
Speaker 3: much you feel it. That I think is really brilliant
29:16
Speaker 3: because it's like recognizing preemptively that this is a thing.
29:20
Speaker 3: So I think just whenever we chase a big dream,
29:23
Speaker 3: which could be you're having a child, you're chasing your
29:26
Speaker 3: Olympic dream, you're putting up an art gallery, you're getting married,
29:30
Speaker 3: all the things. I don't know, whatever, anything that you're
29:34
Speaker 3: pursuing could be a dream to expect that the moment
29:37
Speaker 3: after there might be that little post Olympic depression. And
29:41
Speaker 3: I actually think this conversation is something that people are
29:43
Speaker 3: going to listen to and be like, I know, like
29:45
Speaker 3: people have been talking about it now, but in twenty sixteen,
29:49
Speaker 3: nobody prepared me for it. So I hope this isn't
29:52
Speaker 3: new to anybody in a way. I hope that everyone's like, duh,
29:56
Speaker 3: but I was not. I hope that it becomes commonplace,
30:00
Speaker 3: the moment after is given its moment, and that we
30:05
Speaker 3: can just let it, let it come, and approach it
30:08
Speaker 3: with kindness and patience.
30:11
Speaker 2: I don't want to trivialize the like the post Olympic depression,
30:19
Speaker 2: but I do think that this is so applicable to
30:22
Speaker 2: everybody's life, Like even something as small as a great vacation, yes,
30:28
Speaker 2: or a wedding, or just something momentous, there's always kind
30:32
Speaker 2: of a little slump that we don't talk about because
30:34
Speaker 2: it's supposed to be happy, so.
30:38
Speaker 3: Right, there's just there's going to be a dip after
30:40
Speaker 3: anything that's outside of your normal routine. How about that.
30:44
Speaker 3: I love the film production.
30:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, film production, you get it too completely. I grew
30:49
Speaker 2: up doing theater and after every show I was so sad.
30:53
Speaker 2: Had somebody told me to expect that, I would have
30:55
Speaker 2: felt way better.
30:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, the reinflation period or like we should call it
30:58
Speaker 3: something that's so sad because it doesn't really have to
31:01
Speaker 3: be sad. I think it's like genuinely just like it's
31:04
Speaker 3: like how people have to take weeks off after running
31:07
Speaker 3: a marathon. It's like expected, yes, just expect it. If
31:10
Speaker 3: you don't do it, that would be that would be unusual.
31:13
Speaker 2: I like dip. I think it should just be called
31:14
Speaker 2: the little dip or something like that.
31:16
Speaker 3: The dip.
31:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll do the damn. So you said that at
31:23
Speaker 2: one point you had a surprising realization that all pro
31:27
Speaker 2: athletes and runners deal with pain. You say, as it
31:30
Speaker 2: turns out running hurts for everybody. So how did you
31:33
Speaker 2: become a master of your own pain?
31:36
Speaker 3: I think similar to the post dream dip, I came
31:40
Speaker 3: to expect pain. Like when I was little, I was
31:44
Speaker 3: would be so mad anytime I was in pain, Like,
31:47
Speaker 3: and we're talking about good pain here. We're not talking
31:49
Speaker 3: about injuries or we're talking about pain that you can
31:53
Speaker 3: negotiate with and that you're allowed to push through and
31:56
Speaker 3: all that stuff. When I was little, I just like
31:59
Speaker 3: was like why is this here? Every time I felt it.
32:01
Speaker 3: I think with maturity comes the understanding that this is
32:04
Speaker 3: like a part of it, and then embracing expecting it
32:08
Speaker 3: so that when it comes you can greet it like
32:10
Speaker 3: an expected guest at your dinner party, and to move
32:14
Speaker 3: with it and even relish in it because it means
32:17
Speaker 3: you're going to an unknown or like exciting place.
32:21
Speaker 1: Right.
32:21
Speaker 3: So, I think it's just about like shifting the relationship
32:26
Speaker 3: with it, and we are allowed to do that with
32:30
Speaker 3: anything in our life, Like we can right now never
32:34
Speaker 3: again hate pain, or you could choose to never engage
32:38
Speaker 3: in it in a circumstance where you might be in pain.
32:41
Speaker 3: But if you are choosing to do something that might
32:43
Speaker 3: be painful, whether it's mental pain, like if you're writing
32:46
Speaker 3: something that's going to be painful too maybe, or physical pain,
32:49
Speaker 3: then just accepting that pain is a part of it
32:52
Speaker 3: and it is actually like indicative of a dream coming
32:55
Speaker 3: true because it's part of it.
32:56
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I want to get your take on this
32:59
Speaker 2: because we've seen conversations surrounding elite athletes and mental health
33:03
Speaker 2: really come to light. In the last year we saw
33:07
Speaker 2: Simone bios in Naomi Osaka speak out. It's so interesting
33:11
Speaker 2: to me that there's still controversy over an athlete or
33:16
Speaker 2: a woman just deciding to do what's right for them.
33:19
Speaker 2: What do you think we need to push the conversation forward?
33:22
Speaker 3: Okay? I think that the big challenge that people are
33:28
Speaker 3: having trouble wrapping their heads around is that there's not
33:31
Speaker 3: an MRI for mental health injuries, right, and so often
33:38
Speaker 3: what is required for people to accept an injury of
33:41
Speaker 3: any kind is like definitive proof. With these women and
33:46
Speaker 3: with a lot of with most mental health challenges, you know,
33:49
Speaker 3: you can get a doctor's diagnosis, but it shouldn't require
33:53
Speaker 3: and you know what, physical pain shouldn't require an MRI either.
33:56
Speaker 3: It should be ideally that the word pain on its
34:00
Speaker 3: own has meaning. This is bad pain. So we're now
34:03
Speaker 3: talking about bad pain, right, We're talking about pain in
34:05
Speaker 3: your body, pain in your mind. And I think the
34:07
Speaker 3: problem is that we are not accepting the word at
34:11
Speaker 3: face value when it comes out of these these athletes
34:14
Speaker 3: or people's mouths. A lot of runners I know will
34:18
Speaker 3: have physical pain, for example, and then be told by
34:21
Speaker 3: a doctor or physio even or a coach that it's
34:25
Speaker 3: just a weakness or it's not a big deal because
34:27
Speaker 3: we can physically push through because we are high pain
34:30
Speaker 3: tolerance people. And then with the mental health stuff, there's
34:34
Speaker 3: never going to be the MRI. It's always going to
34:36
Speaker 3: be you know, take take what I say as something
34:38
Speaker 3: that really is tangible. And so I think just the
34:44
Speaker 3: word needs to have meaning simply because we said it,
34:47
Speaker 3: the word pain.
34:49
Speaker 2: When you say good pain versus bad pain, can you
34:51
Speaker 2: explain that?
34:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, so good pain versus bad pain. I just started
34:57
Speaker 3: talking like that because I don't think all pain is bad.
35:00
Speaker 3: I think what we talked about a few minutes ago
35:02
Speaker 3: about how do you, you know, befriend pain and expect it.
35:05
Speaker 3: That's like the kind of pain where you're not injuring.
35:07
Speaker 3: You're not injuring yourself, you are simply like pushing your limits.
35:12
Speaker 3: But it is fundamentally like good and I think that's
35:16
Speaker 3: an intuitive feeling. You know, when what you're doing is
35:19
Speaker 3: painful in an injury way or not. And then there's
35:22
Speaker 3: bad pain, which is you know, meant you know, it
35:26
Speaker 3: could be depression, it could be you're pulling on a tendon,
35:31
Speaker 3: you know, if it's physical.
35:32
Speaker 2: Or you know, like like stretching your limits.
35:35
Speaker 3: Exactly when we talk about what is not taken seriously
35:40
Speaker 3: in the professional female sports world, it's bad pain that
35:43
Speaker 3: people are not they're pushing us to be tougher, and
35:46
Speaker 3: that is associated with good pain bad pain. We need
35:50
Speaker 3: to we need to think twice.
35:52
Speaker 2: I want to kind of get into your mindset because
35:57
Speaker 2: it's fascinating to me that you are able to be
36:00
Speaker 2: so reflective and so sensitive and so in tune, and
36:04
Speaker 2: yet you simultaneously have this no holds bar, go after
36:11
Speaker 2: it at all costs mentality. Yeah, so you say in
36:16
Speaker 2: your book, even if we did not meet our expectations
36:19
Speaker 2: for how a competition would go, we can see through
36:21
Speaker 2: a lens of growth rather than failure, which is kind
36:23
Speaker 2: of what we just talked about, right, Like that the
36:25
Speaker 2: good pain and bad pain. Why is feeling like a
36:28
Speaker 2: winner so important?
36:31
Speaker 3: Who I love feeling like a winner. I think feeling
36:34
Speaker 3: like a winner means crafting your narrative no matter what
36:38
Speaker 3: happens to you through that lens of growth, or like
36:41
Speaker 3: the universe is rooting for us way, so like if
36:45
Speaker 3: something bad happens to us, like we have a step
36:47
Speaker 3: back toward a goal, or we get injured or something.
36:51
Speaker 3: I think I'm always trying to find a way so
36:54
Speaker 3: that my later self will rewrite this challenge to be
36:58
Speaker 3: in my favor. And that means that, like, while I'm injured,
37:02
Speaker 3: if that's the circumstance, I'm going to like manifest some
37:06
Speaker 3: good other version of this time. So later I'm like,
37:09
Speaker 3: that's why I got injured because I really needed to
37:12
Speaker 3: have that life discovery, or I really needed to meet
37:16
Speaker 3: this person I would have never met, or who knows.
37:18
Speaker 2: That's the mark of resilience.
37:20
Speaker 3: Okay, I love that because I don't know why. But
37:23
Speaker 3: I don't know why we wouldn't want to feel like winners.
37:26
Speaker 3: It feels like maybe back to our original talk about
37:29
Speaker 3: why Bravy is helpful because it gives you agency. Yeah,
37:32
Speaker 3: I think we're not supposed to stay the same as
37:35
Speaker 3: people like We're supposed to evolve and grow and change.
37:39
Speaker 2: You know, at the beginning of this interview, we spoke
37:41
Speaker 2: about satellite mentors, and I know that finding women to
37:47
Speaker 2: look up to and to model was really important to
37:49
Speaker 2: you as you were growing up, and now you're a
37:53
Speaker 2: role model for so many people. What was that switch? Like,
37:58
Speaker 2: have you stepped into that role? Do you feel that yet?
38:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's been It's a really it's a
38:06
Speaker 3: it's a really great privilege and responsibility. At the same time,
38:10
Speaker 3: I'm really thoughtful about what I put out there because
38:12
Speaker 3: I know people are gonna take it and run with it.
38:15
Speaker 3: So like if I were to put a picture of
38:17
Speaker 3: like some like for example, like if there's a sandwich
38:23
Speaker 3: and there is bread or there's not bread, like that's
38:26
Speaker 3: going to be like a thing that people can extrapolate
38:29
Speaker 3: and use as their law if they really really look
38:32
Speaker 3: up to someone. And so I'm really thoughtful about that
38:35
Speaker 3: because it is you know, I know how because I
38:38
Speaker 3: really imitated people when I was that age, So I
38:41
Speaker 3: assume I'm going to be imitated and at the same time,
38:45
Speaker 3: I want to grow and be an adult woman that
38:48
Speaker 3: I am now. And I think what you can feel
38:51
Speaker 3: is that people sometimes not everyone the really not everyone,
38:55
Speaker 3: but some people would like you to be the same.
38:57
Speaker 3: And so I think where I'm at now is it's
39:00
Speaker 3: like I'm growing and I'm evolving, and I think I'm
39:04
Speaker 3: doing it with integrity, but I have to also be
39:07
Speaker 3: brave enough to evolve first and then hope that people
39:11
Speaker 3: are okay with that and handle that. And I'm finding
39:15
Speaker 3: that people are okay with that and are handling it
39:17
Speaker 3: for the most part.
39:18
Speaker 2: You know, I think the real ones grow with you.
39:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
39:24
Speaker 2: You said running is a way to push and explore
39:26
Speaker 2: the outermost limits of yourself. There is this Will Smith video.
39:32
Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite videos of all time. He
39:34
Speaker 2: accepts a Teen Choice Award and he says, there are
39:37
Speaker 2: two keys to life, running and reading. Running because if
39:42
Speaker 2: you get to that place where you're so exhausted and
39:45
Speaker 2: you don't think you can take another step, and you
39:47
Speaker 2: push through that, that's the kind of mentality that it
39:51
Speaker 2: takes to do to chase big dreams. And reading because
39:55
Speaker 2: every answer is in a book. There's everybody's been through it.
39:58
Speaker 2: You're not the first one to have gone through anything.
40:00
Speaker 2: I've never thought about that video more so than when
40:03
Speaker 2: I was researching you. What information have you learned about
40:10
Speaker 2: yourself during those moments of running when you felt like
40:12
Speaker 2: you couldn't go any further.
40:15
Speaker 3: I like learning principles or rules from other people I
40:18
Speaker 3: admire and then applying them in the most difficult moments,
40:22
Speaker 3: and I remember my coach that I revered and trusted
40:25
Speaker 3: said that you can do anything for three minutes or
40:28
Speaker 3: three more minutes, so I try. And he also said
40:32
Speaker 3: that there are rough patches and that they go away
40:34
Speaker 3: or they change if we sit with them. So I
40:36
Speaker 3: think I've relied again on mentors and just been like,
40:40
Speaker 3: I don't believe this, but I will suspend my own
40:43
Speaker 3: disbelief for the person that I respect and revere and
40:46
Speaker 3: give it a shot.
40:48
Speaker 2: So you wrote, good thing. I didn't accomplish all my
40:50
Speaker 2: goals yet, because then what would I do tomorrow? And
40:53
Speaker 2: that's on your Instagram now, mm hmm. What do you
40:57
Speaker 2: want your legacy to be? Alexi?
40:59
Speaker 3: I want to be a good teammate, Like whether it's
41:01
Speaker 3: like two people as a mentor you know, a satellite
41:05
Speaker 3: teammate to them, or to a scene partner right in
41:09
Speaker 3: front of me, to another athlete right next to me.
41:12
Speaker 3: I think I want to be a good teammate. That's
41:13
Speaker 3: what I want for like the world to feel from
41:15
Speaker 3: me and like in ways that I can uniquely be
41:18
Speaker 3: their teammates. So like with Bravy, I just knew I
41:22
Speaker 3: was like I have been to certain depths high and
41:26
Speaker 3: low that like me and I can say something and
41:29
Speaker 3: be your teammate in a way that maybe you'll trust
41:31
Speaker 3: the way that I trust certain mentors in my life.
41:34
Speaker 3: That's the legacy part. And then personally, I want to
41:37
Speaker 3: feel teammateship from other people and like be on teams
41:40
Speaker 3: because I like, I feel very happy when I'm on teams,
41:44
Speaker 3: and that those that can mean non traditional you know,
41:48
Speaker 3: iterations of teams. But I think that's what I want
41:51
Speaker 3: to feel too, and I think that's a healthier thing
41:54
Speaker 3: than saying I want to matter. I think being a
41:57
Speaker 3: teammate can can be a little healthier and more sustainable.
42:00
Speaker 3: You know.
42:01
Speaker 2: Most often what we want to give others is actually
42:04
Speaker 2: what we want people to give us. So it makes sense.
42:08
Speaker 3: That's nice. Yeah, that's true. I guess.
42:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it makes sense in your case. Okay, I
42:12
Speaker 2: have some rapid fire for you.
42:14
Speaker 3: Okay, let's do it.
42:16
Speaker 2: You are so incredibly talented. You're one of those people
42:20
Speaker 2: that it's like, leave something for the rest of us, Alexi.
42:23
Speaker 2: What is something you are not good at?
42:26
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm bad at baking because I don't like follow
42:29
Speaker 3: recipes very well. So good at savory cooking, bad at baking,
42:32
Speaker 3: and I mess up like probably like two thirds of
42:35
Speaker 3: the things I try and make up. I'm bad at
42:37
Speaker 3: water sports like water skiing, can't get up on a
42:40
Speaker 3: week board. And I'm bad at making small decisions. Really
42:44
Speaker 3: good at making big decisions, but the little ones, I'm like, well,
42:47
Speaker 3: I don't know, so that can be really uh. And
42:51
Speaker 3: sometimes I'm bad at sleeping.
42:53
Speaker 2: How many tattoos do you have and which one means
42:55
Speaker 2: the most to you?
42:57
Speaker 3: Three tattoos, And the one that means the most to me,
43:01
Speaker 3: honestly is my Olympic tattoo.
43:04
Speaker 2: Wait, can can I see that? I like that great positioning.
43:08
Speaker 3: It's great. You can hide it, but you can also
43:10
Speaker 3: like have it. It's great, It's this is a great
43:13
Speaker 3: place for a classy tattoo.
43:16
Speaker 2: So how many people get to put the Olympic circles
43:19
Speaker 2: on their body? Not many.
43:22
Speaker 3: You're meant to do it only once you've competed in
43:24
Speaker 3: the Olympics. But I have seen super fans get it,
43:26
Speaker 3: and I don't know, I don't know. I guess you
43:28
Speaker 3: can tattoo whatever you want on your body whenever you
43:30
Speaker 3: want to.
43:32
Speaker 2: What's the best thing that's happened to you this month?
43:35
Speaker 3: Uh, okay. I'm I made a new really good friend
43:40
Speaker 3: named Megan, who's film I'm putting together. And I haven't
43:44
Speaker 3: made like a really really good friend in a long time.
43:46
Speaker 3: And I don't ever expect to make a good friend
43:49
Speaker 3: these days, Like you know, it happens. But it's like
43:51
Speaker 3: a good pair of jeans. You're not like you can't
43:53
Speaker 3: like summon a good pair of jeans, you can just
43:55
Speaker 3: be open minded defining them. And I'm helping her finish
43:59
Speaker 3: her first indie film, and it's something I'm quite experienced with,
44:03
Speaker 3: and she came out and stayed with me, and it
44:04
Speaker 3: was like I didn't like to also make like a
44:07
Speaker 3: best friend, and she feels like my best teammates and
44:12
Speaker 3: friends and running feel like to me where it's like
44:14
Speaker 3: she just gets it. So that's been a pretty pretty
44:18
Speaker 3: cool thing this past month.
44:20
Speaker 2: Congratulations, that's rare.
44:23
Speaker 3: It's great.
44:25
Speaker 2: What's a book that changed your life?
44:28
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, Sarah Ruhle's Book of Plays. I think it's
44:32
Speaker 3: called like a Clean House and other plays, but specifically
44:35
Speaker 3: her play Eurriticy. I read it and found it in
44:37
Speaker 3: college and it just it was a you know, when
44:40
Speaker 3: you grow up reading plays, you can think there are
44:42
Speaker 3: a certain thing because you're reading like the classics whatever,
44:46
Speaker 3: you're just reading more traditional plays. And she is so
44:50
Speaker 3: imaginative and her just reading this book Jeremy, my husband
44:54
Speaker 3: and my partner gave it to me, made me like realize,
44:57
Speaker 3: like what you can do with work and what you
45:00
Speaker 3: can do with theater. And I got to meet her
45:03
Speaker 3: recently and she's just as wonderful in real life, and
45:06
Speaker 3: that was even better because I was like, yes, you know,
45:08
Speaker 3: when you meet the person and you're like, they affirm
45:11
Speaker 3: everything that I felt about their work.
45:13
Speaker 2: It's the best. How did you know that Jeremy was
45:17
Speaker 2: your teammate?
45:20
Speaker 3: I knew because we were really young when we met
45:24
Speaker 3: and we didn't need to be dating or hanging out,
45:26
Speaker 3: and we just kept doing it. I admire Jeremy so much,
45:31
Speaker 3: and for different reasons than I think he admires me.
45:33
Speaker 3: It's like a yin yang thing. I like watching him
45:38
Speaker 3: do his thing. It's the best, and he accepts me
45:43
Speaker 3: even when I have integrity and try my best but
45:46
Speaker 3: fallow my face.
45:48
Speaker 2: All the best people try. Okay, this is the question
45:53
Speaker 2: everything card deck tell me when to stop?
45:55
Speaker 3: Oh yes, stop?
46:00
Speaker 2: Okay, which historical event would you like to witness.
46:05
Speaker 3: I guess I was gonna say something in the future.
46:08
Speaker 3: You can is that? Does that? Does that? Is that against? No?
46:13
Speaker 2: I actually love that. I think that's great.
46:15
Speaker 3: I have no reason other than just saying I would
46:18
Speaker 3: like to witness like like another planet being inhabited or something,
46:24
Speaker 3: if there was some like like exploration that where we
46:28
Speaker 3: found something on another planet, or or if we did
46:31
Speaker 3: something on another planet, I think I would love to
46:34
Speaker 3: experience that.
46:37
Speaker 2: So I love your love for words. This is a
46:41
Speaker 2: perfect one for you. What is a lyric, poem, mantra,
46:44
Speaker 2: or quote that you hold on too tightly?
46:47
Speaker 3: Well, I just last week I started thinking, like I
46:50
Speaker 3: do what I can do when I can do it,
46:53
Speaker 3: and that it's not a point, it's nothing. It's just
46:56
Speaker 3: a quote I guess that I thought about. And that's
47:00
Speaker 3: just to say that I think we can say certain
47:03
Speaker 3: things and do certain things at certain intervals in our
47:07
Speaker 3: life and not assume that we will get that chance again.
47:10
Speaker 3: And so I think that's a really nice north star.
47:14
Speaker 3: And it makes every moment in our life, like every time,
47:17
Speaker 3: feel like it matters, and that we don't need to
47:19
Speaker 3: be going backwards and for us there is something to
47:22
Speaker 3: be doing right now. So I think that's it.
47:26
Speaker 2: And last question, what is the smartest decision you've ever made?
47:30
Speaker 3: Probably chasing the Olympic dream. To be honest, like this
47:35
Speaker 3: is it was smart, Like it was really scary. It
47:38
Speaker 3: wasn't certain, and I had a lot of more certain paths,
47:42
Speaker 3: but it was smart and it was the right decision,
47:45
Speaker 3: and I'm so glad that I did.
47:47
Speaker 2: It was a bet on yourself.
47:49
Speaker 3: Now I'm like, wow, that was like really brave. But
47:51
Speaker 3: then it seemed like fairly obvious to like do it.
47:54
Speaker 3: I mean it was terrifying. I felt sick when I
47:56
Speaker 3: turned down certain other opportunities, but sick and a good
48:00
Speaker 3: sick where you know you made the right decision.
48:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much. I know you mentioned the
48:07
Speaker 2: writer that was everything you wanted her to be. You
48:11
Speaker 2: were everything I wanted you to be. So thank you
48:13
Speaker 2: so much for your time. All Right, today's a good day.
48:33
Speaker 2: To have a good day. I'll see you next week.