Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep #74: Becoming a Divorce Mortgage Specialist

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Ep #74: Becoming a Divorce Mortgage Specialist · Mortgage Marketing Radio

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1:17
Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome to another episode of mortgage marketing radio.
1:39
So glad you're here.
1:40
Hope you're digging the episodes.
1:41
Would love to get a shout out from you.
1:43
If you ever want to reach me, you know you can.
1:45
If you've got one of those sweet swag and mortgage marketing radio t-shirts, hey, share
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it up.
1:58
Take a picture of yourself on Instagram.
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We're going to talk about Instagram in a coming episode.
2:01
So why not start using it?
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Take a little selfie on Instagram, tag me, mortgage marketing institute on Instagram and
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share the love.
2:11
Okay.
2:12
Good into this week's episode, man oh man, this is just a home run and it's a long time
2:18
coming and bringing this topic to you, the audience members.
2:23
And so let me actually open it up with this is that I know there's a lot of you listening
2:26
that have probably thought about specializing or pursuing the divorce niche.
2:34
And a few weeks ago, I received the good fortune of being invited to attend a class that
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was hosted by what I will call the premier training and education organization in the
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country for preparing and training real estate agents, mortgage loan officers, attorneys,
2:55
judges, financial planners, an amazing organization behind the organization called DivorceThisHouse.com
3:04
is a professor graduate of both Stanford University and Harvard Law School, and she's
3:11
a faculty professor at Vanderbilt University.
3:15
herself and Aunt Wendy, as you'll feel, Kyra, her affectionately referred to on this
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episode, have created, as I said, what I think is the premier destination.
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If you're at all considering specializing in the divorce niche, I know there's some
3:28
other options out there in the marketplace.
3:30
This would be the one.
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Why?
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Well, you'll hear a little bit about it on this podcast, but I would say the reason why,
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if there was only one, but there's more than one.
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But the reason why is because when attorneys evaluate you and they look at what knowledge
3:47
or expertise you have to be able to help them with their case files that are divorce-related,
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if you have an association to a respected law professor, that creates a eyebrow raising
4:00
eye-opening kind of, wow, very impressive reaction from the attorneys.
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What you need to understand is professor Murray, her name is Kelly Murray, the graduate of
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Stanford, graduate of Harvard Law School, the Vanderbilt University Law professor teaches
4:16
thousands of attorneys across the country every year, highly respected, highly regarded.
4:21
And so how important is that in terms of who you decide to receive your education from
4:26
when it comes to specializing in the divorce niche, and who you receive your training on
4:30
how to actually approach divorce attorneys and get noticed and get attention?
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So what I love about the divorce of this house is they have a designation actually versus
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a certification, which actually is more respected by the attorney in a lot of cases.
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But here's the thing I want you to take away from this podcast.
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If you're at all considering pursuing that niche, don't do it half-hazardly, get the proper
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training and education you need.
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And I'm proud to be affiliated with them at DivorceThisHouse.com because of the level of professionalism.
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They have because of where they're coming from and wanting to change the face of divorce
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in this country.
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And what you'll hear on this episode is I've got three special guests.
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Wendy with Sal, she's also known as Aunt Wendy, she's the co-founder of DivorceThisHouse.com.
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We have Wendy Thompson, who I've known for over 10 years, what's up Wendy?
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And she is a lender out of Tennessee, Memphis, and then Rita Driver, she's a realtor out
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of Memphis, Tennessee, with 26 years of experience.
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And what they're going to hear is their story about how and why they decided to get involved
5:35
in this divorce niche.
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What are some of the roadblocks to be aware of?
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How to approach attorneys, not to approach attorneys, why it's important to get properly
5:45
educated and trained and to just like any other specialty, you need training to be a special
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list.
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And there's money where specialties exist.
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So, the divorce niche is one that's growing, it's one that's always talk about within
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the lending industry, but many are approaching in a wrong way and a very unsuccessful way.
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Unfortunately, doing some brand damage to themselves.
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So check out DivorceThisHouse.com, but more importantly, in this podcast, we talk about
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upcoming webinar we have that is going to do a deeper dive for you loan officers listening.
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You want to learn more about how to actually receive your divorce specialist designation.
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You want to learn how to actually present yourself to attorneys, how to find attorneys,
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how to bring realtors into the loop, how to team up with realtors and have a unified
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front approach to attorneys in your local market, how to add this niche to your business,
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so you're not so dependent upon the single source of business, like real estate agents,
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for example.
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So if that's all, you know, anything for you, the webinar is going to be taught and hosted
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by a professor, Kelly Murray herself, right?
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And so if you ever want to education, a free education and divorce niche, approaching
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divorce attorneys, plus we're going to talk about the new tax changes in Alimony Taxation
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and the TCGA changes with the new Tax Cup Jobs Act for the new tax plan put into place
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by the current president, right?
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All some relevant info that you might want to know in your professional business.
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Here's how you register for that webinar.
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The link is in the show notes, but this is the webinar address.
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It's www.webinar.divorcemortgagespecialist.com.
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It's in the show notes, as I said, the webinar is coming up on Thursday, May 24th.
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So get registered for that.
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It's going to be at 11 a.m. Pacific, and we'll walk you through a lot of the next steps
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in this process for how you get the designation.
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What is the training roadmap?
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How can you team up with your local real estate agents and host a class to get your real
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estate agents designated with this specialty as well and start adding this source of business
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a very profitable source of business to your overall mortgage career?
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So with that said, enjoy this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio.
8:07
Let's get into the show.
8:09
Hey, everybody.
8:11
Welcome to the show.
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I've got a unique group here today.
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I've actually got three powerful women on the call.
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So I'm very excited to introduce my special guest, and here's how we're going to do this.
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Everybody knows who's who with the voice.
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Let me start off by allowing you each to introduce yourselves, who you are, and what you do.
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I'm Andy Wissell.
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I'll go with you first.
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Okay.
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Thank you.
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Well, I'm Wendy Wissell, and I'm co-founder of DivorceThisHouse.com.
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And we train divorce lawyers, judges, family judges, mediators, paralegals.
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And we're also training real estate professionals, particularly realtors and now lenders on how
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to work with the divorce attorneys early in the divorce process.
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And we're very proud of what we're doing because we're changing divorce across the country.
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Fantastic.
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Thank you.
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And Wendy Thompson, tell us about you.
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Hey, I am Wendy Thompson.
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I am a mortgage loan originator in Memphis, and I actually have a team that actually
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assists me.
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And I've been in the business about 17 years, and Jeffrey, you'll know that I don't know
9:21
how long I've been a client of yours, but I firmly believe in educating realtors.
9:26
So I definitely recommend it for anyone.
9:29
Yeah.
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I think you called me out last time we talked, and you said, we've known each other for like
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10 years.
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I'm like, has it been that long?
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It has.
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Jack, it has.
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For sure.
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So great to connect again.
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Small world, this lending industry.
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Okay.
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So last but not least, Rita Driver, tell us about yourself.
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Well, thank you so much for having me here.
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It's an honor and a privilege.
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And with the other two powerful women.
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I am Rita Driver from Memphis, Tennessee.
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I've been a realtor for 26 years.
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I'm in my 26 year, so I'm a little older than the rest of you here.
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And I have been working with divorcing couples and family attorneys here in the Memphis
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area for probably seven or eight years and figured out that Wendy was sell has the greatest
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and best opportunity for a realtor to educate themselves to truly be on the side of the
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divorcing clients when it deals with their home.
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And part of that is so huge, in my opinion, that they have brought together attorneys,
10:42
realtors, and lenders for all of us to work together because it's all about the client.
10:49
Yeah.
10:50
Absolutely.
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Thank you for those introductions.
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Okay, so in the formal intro, you know, basically you guys heard about how we all came together
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and for those of you that might have fast-forwarded through that.
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So I have recently become associated with divorce this house.com because of the good things
11:05
they're doing in the industry to not only change the face of divorce in this country and
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help people going through that very difficult process, but also to your point, Rita, I think
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they've from what I've personally seen done the best job out there in terms of bringing
11:21
the right parties together and creating a platform that allows all of us to come at it from
11:28
the right mindset, benefit the client ultimately, but of course, you know, I mean, it's a strong
11:33
benefit for our business as well because all of us are looking for, you know, a unique
11:37
value proposition in the marketplace and I know the people on this call and the people
11:41
that listen to my podcast are service-oriented first and we all know that that leads to
11:47
growing our business.
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So with that said, I wanted to ask Wendy, let me take you first, Wendy Thompson because,
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you know, most of the people listening to this are going to be loan officers. Why did
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you decide to pursue, you know, the divorce niche in your lending business?
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Well, for one, I think it is always going to occur, unfortunately, whether their interest
12:13
rates are high, interest rates are low.
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So I think what it actually does for us is it will allow you to specialize in an area
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that is not going to be dependent upon right and it's always going to be needed.
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And with that, you know, probably yourself and other people that are listening, we have
12:32
all had clients that have been through a divorce and then they come to you after the fact.
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And so I felt like it was really important to be able to offer advice and solutions
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in advance as opposed to after the fact.
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And so it was really a combination of being able to add a different area of my business
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that would be, you know, I guess for like a bit of term recession proof.
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And then as well as really being able to help people before they went through a divorce
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as opposed to trying to figure out a solution afterwards.
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And what has been the change in your business since doing that in terms of your sources
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of business?
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Let's say I'm curious to see.
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And if I'm correct, before we hit record, I was talking with Rita in terms of, you know,
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the timeframe for you in this space.
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So I may be asking the question a little unfairly, I've been prepared for it.
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But what, either what percentage of business are you, you know, now getting from this niche
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or do you foresee this being as a, you know, overall piece of your business?
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Well, I only took the class, I think, in either late February or the beginning of March.
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I have had, I'm actually have a client currently that was going to a divorce and actually
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I'm helping both the husband as well as the wife or ex-wife to be purchased the home
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and he's refinancing.
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I have, in all fairness, I have not marketed it like I should, but just think getting
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in the way, but I expect this to be a, definitely a pillar of business that I will be going
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after for sure.
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And did you pursue this niche because, you know, you and I both know this, right?
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You know, I'm tired of working with the Realsers or whatever, no offense Rita.
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But, you know, was, was that part of the mix?
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Did you want to like, you know what I mean?
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I know there's more to it behind that.
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So come on, let's let it loose.
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Well, yes, yes.
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And I don't know, well, and that it really is and I just feel like that most long originators
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if you are not currently trying to be self-destainable without realtors, then you're making a big
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mistake.
14:39
Again, no offense to realtors.
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I think that it's always going to be a, you know, a percentage of your business, but
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I think that we all, we, we need to be actually going out and being able to create our own
14:50
business, whether that be from an online source or from our past client or, you know,
14:55
fear or having a niche like divorce financing.
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I had a few years back, I had been interested in this and just never really pursued it.
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So Rita and myself have been partners forever.
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My son is really 14 and October and we've been friends and partners since what's free
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to throw over 15 years, I think.
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So when Rita was very passionate about it, she's like, hey, I really want you to do this
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with me.
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I said, Rita, funny.
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You know, you asked me, this is something I'm very interested in passionate about as
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well.
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So it was one, you know, to have that certification and to be able to do that with Rita, I'm
15:32
alongside with Rita and also just for myself to better serve the clients that I have, that
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I would normally help and then to be able to go out and get additional business on my
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own too.
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Again, I, you know, I definitely, definitely feel like that going forward, loan originators
15:51
are really going to have to be creative and to be able to stand out with something as
15:57
an expo that the online providers may or may not actually have or just, you know, stop
16:05
working at Pizza Hut last week and decide they want to be a loan originator.
16:09
So, no, I mean, I think that's the real case.
16:15
That's real.
16:16
That's real.
16:17
That's real.
16:18
It's a real case story there.
16:19
Yeah.
16:20
So, yeah.
16:21
So that's really the reason.
16:23
That's a good answer.
16:24
Okay.
16:25
Thank you for sharing that.
16:26
And so I'm following a very logical process here.
16:29
First I wanted to, for you listeners, I wanted to address the question of why as a loan
16:33
officer you should consider this as a possible niche for you.
16:36
And by the way, this isn't right for everybody.
16:39
I guess I should say that as well.
16:40
And before I let you go on this segment, Wendy Thompson, would you want to point out,
16:45
you know, when I say that, you probably are aware of a few things I might mean by
16:50
that.
16:51
But do you have any commentary about, you know, hey, it's not right for everybody?
16:54
Um, well, again, I feel like it's just like with anything else.
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I mean, it is definitely an area of expertise and you really have to know what you're doing
17:05
because you could give, you know, bad advice.
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So I guess that where you're kind of going with that, that you have to kind of understand
17:11
underwriting guidelines and situations and make sure that you're giving good advice to
17:17
the client or to their attorney.
17:19
What I mean by that more so is there are people that are relationship based and transaction
17:24
based.
17:26
And I know who you are, you know, we all love to do transactions, but it's a relationship
17:30
that right supersedes that.
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And so what I want to make clear is that, you know, to your point about the pizza hut
17:35
person who's now, you know, working in a call center, whatever, you know, this is really
17:39
about, I believe you've got to approach this with the same fiduciary responsibility that
17:44
a financial planner has, you know, when you're dealing with this subject because you're talking
17:49
about people's lives.
17:50
Oh, absolutely, absolutely for sure.
17:54
And like I said, I think probably for your audience, Jeff, most of us are professionals.
17:59
So I think that probably the people that listen to your podcast would all be a good candidate
18:06
to actually do this course as well as, you know, offer to teach other courses that you
18:12
actually have as well.
18:13
So I'd, you know, I would say, you know, I'm a CPA by trade, so this really fits well
18:18
into my experience and just really, I like being technical.
18:24
And I think it just makes me that much more valuable to be able to go and actually speak
18:30
competently and professionally to attorneys.
18:35
And like I said, it's really a great opportunity for someone to get this designation because
18:40
of their ability to potentially, like I mentioned, I've got someone that's currently going
18:44
through a divorce, the wife is purchasing another home, the husband is maintaining the
18:49
home.
18:50
And so I'm able to do two transactions in one.
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You could even have a situation where you're representing both of them on purchasing another
18:57
and they're actually selling the home.
18:59
But yeah, but I like to say, I think more of your audience base, you know, I listen to
19:04
your podcast and I know a lot of my friends listen to your podcast.
19:08
And so I think that most of your audience, this is definitely something that they should,
19:13
you know, at least look into doing.
19:15
Well, I appreciate you acknowledging my audience listeners right now as professional.
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So I would have to agree with you.
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So thank you for that.
19:23
Listeners.
19:24
Yeah, Wendy's putting the love on you.
19:25
Thank you.
19:26
Okay.
19:27
So Rita, you know, the same similar question for you because I'm sure some, and I may be
19:33
wrong on this.
19:34
These are some assumptions I'm making, right?
19:35
I just put myself in the shoes of all the different roles involved on this call and don't
19:39
worry Aunt Wendy.
19:40
We're going to get to you soon.
19:41
But Rita, Rita, why would a realtor want to consider this niche and is, you know, same
19:48
question, right?
19:49
Is it right for everybody?
19:50
I can only attest to my personal level of passion for this certification, this particular
19:58
education for realtor.
20:00
It is a passion for me because I have as a 26 year veteran in our real estate industry.
20:08
I've been along Wendy's line, Wendy Thompson's lines as a lender.
20:14
I have been the realtor.
20:15
I've had clients come to me after the fact of a divorce and realized that when I'm getting
20:23
ready to list the house, whoever stayed in the house has been abused financially by the
20:29
one that left the house generally as a rule.
20:32
That creates a lot of problems for them to either a clear the title or b clear the loan.
20:39
It creates a marketing challenge for me because the last 10 years, we've been in a
20:45
down market.
20:46
So it's created even further depression of distressed property.
20:51
My greatest reasons behind me receiving the education that I am great before every day
20:57
is because I can hopefully stop the damage that is created post divorce.
21:07
If I can get in front of the divorce attorneys and in front of the divorce judges who are
21:12
granting these divorces and get in front of the lenders to let them know, hey, we need
21:17
to sell this house.
21:19
We do not need to allow a spouse who has no job to stay in the house and make somebody
21:25
else responsible that's not in the house to make the notes, they've lost their job.
21:31
Now we've got two people with terrible credit and we've got a house that's upside down.
21:37
We've got children who are being evicted and they don't understand that we're sitting
21:42
in a position unfortunately at that point as the realtor that we look like the really bad
21:47
guy who's standing out with the sheriff's department putting their little bed and their
21:51
little toys out on the sidewalk.
21:54
I don't want in that position.
21:56
If I can stop it, I want to stop it and the only way to stop it is to collaboratively
22:01
work together as a unit which is attorneys, realtors and lenders to give them the better
22:09
options so that when they're signing that final divorce decree, that MDA, that Mural Discollusion
22:15
Agreement, before they agree to those final terms and a judge stamped it done, they know
22:22
they're educated of what the ramifications are of their actions in the future.
22:28
Just immediate relief today.
22:31
Right.
22:32
Well said.
22:33
Well said.
22:34
Thank you.
22:35
Okay.
22:36
So we're bringing around full circle to Aunt Wendy.
22:39
That's how we affectionate her.
22:41
Yes.
22:42
I know.
22:43
I'm calling on you today.
22:46
Okay.
22:47
So how do you tell me tell me the mission behind divorces house first?
22:55
All right.
22:56
Well, the mission is consumer protection for divorcing homeowners.
23:01
And what we want to do is we want to we take no sides for completely neutral.
23:06
It's all about education and having the professionals in place, real estate professionals working
23:12
with legal professionals so that we help the house spouse and the out spouse make the decision
23:21
early in the divorce process.
23:22
So we're changing the divorce timeline.
23:25
And we want to protect this credit score of both individuals.
23:29
And we want to preserve homeownership eligibility through working early in the divorce process,
23:36
helping the lawyers with trained professionals that they will rely on as resources and not
23:42
as competitors and not as transaction driven people, but rather a team.
23:49
Those lawyers will respond best to a team who has tools and training.
23:56
Okay.
23:57
Love that.
23:58
Well, well said.
23:59
So then kind of put the pieces together for those listening that, okay, we've heard the
24:04
reasons why a lender, a realtor would want to add this to their overall mix of business.
24:10
Then how does that happen in, you know, take, take us through.
24:14
I'm a lender.
24:15
I'm listening.
24:16
It doesn't make sense to me.
24:17
I got a couple of realtors that I think would want to partner up on this.
24:21
How do we come together and all get along?
24:23
How do we, you know, approach the attorneys because I've been told stories before and you
24:29
know this as well.
24:30
It's like, hey, these attorneys are tough to approach and get an audience with.
24:34
And I know from taking your class, there's some things that you do not want to say and
24:38
do not want to show up, right, with a certain type of a presentation.
24:42
So can you unpack that a little bit?
24:44
Because, well, our class teaches you what to do and what not to do.
24:49
And why it's important because when you learn what lawyers are doing wrong, and of course
24:54
every lender and every realtor that has been in the business for at least a few years
24:59
and has come across a divorced property or a divorced client, you see these mistakes
25:04
and you think to yourself, why did you do this?
25:07
I mean, even as a stager, I was a solicited stature and I had staged about 300 homes and
25:13
I could not understand why these divorced properties were being sold so soon after
25:18
the divorce was final.
25:19
You know, when they could have sold it earlier in the process and been business partners
25:24
because whoever the house bouts is was taking all the hit on the cost.
25:29
And so, Professor Murray is our faculty and I'm going to brag about her because lawyers
25:37
respect education in every capacity.
25:41
And so, when Professor Murray trains our realtors and lawyers and lenders and other professionals
25:48
that we're training now, they're getting a top notch education from a woman who is well
25:54
educated herself because she graduated from Stanford, Phi Beta Kappa, and then she went
26:00
to law school with Barack Obama and our newest Supreme Court judge, Neil Gorsuch.
26:07
So she went to Harvard Law School.
26:09
And when you get our education, she doesn't dumb it down, but don't you think Wendy and
26:14
Rita, you understand exactly what she's teaching you and how you fit in.
26:19
And it's all done through actual cases, so it's a lot like a reality program.
26:26
And we show you how you fit in, but most importantly, we teach you to speak away a lawyer needs
26:34
to hear it.
26:36
Most of the time, lawyers tell us and we've trained thousands of lawyers.
26:40
So the lawyers tell us that they're bombarded with literature and it's unsolicited by them.
26:47
So they're getting flyers and brochures and all kinds of things and then emails.
26:52
Never want to call a lawyer to pitch your niche, they don't want to be pitched.
26:59
They want you to fill in need for them.
27:02
And so what we've identified is what the lawyer actually needs from a lender.
27:08
And Wendy Thompson, wouldn't you say that that was one of the main things that you learned
27:11
from us?
27:12
Oh, absolutely, for sure, Wendy.
27:14
And then Rita, we taught Rita, driver, and everyone in her class exactly how the real
27:21
tour can reach out to the lawyers coming from a position of need, not greed, because lawyers
27:29
are constantly bombarded with realtors hoping to get a client who needs to buy a house and
27:36
possibly sell the house.
27:37
And with real tours in the right position, we call it a horizon market.
27:42
It's the best market you can be in with a lawyer because when a lawyer has a client and
27:49
it dawns on the client by doing their due diligence early before mediation and recognizing
27:55
that keeping the house is not in their best interest, it will dawn on them that they need
28:00
to sell the property.
28:02
And we've positioned the real tour along with the lender helping complete a case file.
28:08
You don't know really what goes in the case file to take our class, but suddenly you are
28:13
helping put information in the hands of the very person who may need your services.
28:19
And then working with you will make the decision to go forward or to refinance just exactly
28:24
what Wendy Johnson just said.
28:26
She has a divorcing couple and she's working with both of them because she's a neutral
28:29
party, helping them move forward and actually be able to heal post-divorce with both of
28:36
them preserving their financial future.
28:42
Can you share, you know, without giving the keys to the store away, what it is, what
28:51
of those, how do you help a lender realtor because I know part of the concept is the lender
28:57
and realtor should go in as a team to the meeting with an attorney, right?
29:01
Yes, ideally.
29:02
Yeah, ideally.
29:03
And we give you a five-point lawyer presentation agenda.
29:11
So when you take our training, you're going to learn everything that goes wrong in divorce
29:14
real estate and how you are the solution to the problems and how you help the clients
29:19
but you also help the lawyer and the lawyer has employees within the law firm that you're
29:25
also going to be interacting with and supplying information through.
29:31
And with this five-point agenda, we give you your elevator speech.
29:37
And with this elevator speech, it is the hook that will introduce you in the way a lawyer
29:45
needs to learn about you and your services.
29:49
And so it's a different point of view.
29:52
When a lender is talking about refinance, we don't want you leading with refinance.
29:56
And Jeff, you were in the class and you remember, Kelly Murray was very particular about how
30:01
you introduce your services and you're not hiding anything.
30:05
It's just that you're going to lead with the need and not with the greed.
30:08
And within the five-point, oh.
30:13
That's fantastic.
30:14
That's what I was actually alluding to earlier when I asked Wendy that question about this
30:18
isn't right for everybody because if you lead with greed, that's just going to show up.
30:22
What did you say?
30:23
Somebody else?
30:24
The way they described it the other day, somebody used the term commission breath?
30:27
Oh, yes.
30:28
That's the CEO of the National Association of Divorce Professionals says that they've
30:35
that everyone who joins their association and we've now affiliated with them.
30:41
And so we're helping them grow and they're all about every one of their members getting
30:46
more education because think about it.
30:48
Lawyers are education snows.
30:50
And so when you take our training as opposed to other training from non-lawyers and you
30:58
throw out Professor Murray's curriculum detail to the lawyer that you're presenting to
31:03
or the mediator or the paralegal, it doesn't matter.
31:07
The first word out of their mouth is wow.
31:10
And the second word is tell me more, now you get a sentence from them in a question because
31:16
they actually want to hear what Kelly taught you because she is so highly regarded.
31:22
She is the leading scholar in the country on divorce real estate reform.
31:28
And so we're trying to make divorce real estate better and having people trained and working
31:36
as a team, if you look at the legal community, they purposely named themselves that legal
31:43
community.
31:44
But the legal community looks at the divorce real estate industry as an industry of competitors.
31:53
So with divorce this house and the National Association of Divorce Professionals, we're
31:58
creating a community of real estate professionals who are now elevated because they've elevated
32:04
their education and their position so that they will be accepted by the Bar Association
32:11
and we even show you the different types of lawyers that you want to introduce yourself
32:17
to and how to get to them.
32:19
We never want you making a call call or a cold email or introduction.
32:24
You can get a warm or a hot introduction and that's another part of our class.
32:28
And then you're going to know exactly what to do and we do all of your marketing material
32:32
for you.
32:33
And there isn't a lot of it because lawyers want you to meet them one-on-one face-to-face.
32:39
And Rita Driver is a perfect example of that.
32:41
She has wonderful relationships and she can tell you about them with individual lawyers
32:47
and one of her biggest fans is her real estate attorney.
32:52
And I got the privilege of meeting him and he is so behind what we're doing from a position
32:59
of real estate, but he's also a lawyer and so when he talks to lawyers and judges about
33:04
Rita's services, he did serve more credibility.
33:08
Well, can you talk a little bit about the, because there's, I think, when I came to your
33:14
class, I was unaware, if you will, of how uninformed attorneys are in this space around real
33:22
estate because they've got enough of their own stuff to worry about and it's funny I was
33:26
watching one of the videos on your website the other day and one of the comments was
33:30
from an attorney was that, you know, hey, we're not trained in real estate, right?
33:34
Particularly if you're not a real estate lawyer attorney or divorce attorney, why would
33:37
you be, right?
33:38
So, what are some of the things they're unaware of that we, you know, as lenders or realtors
33:44
can add value, right, and create that aha moment?
33:47
Right.
33:48
Well, this is pretty shocking, but since we've trained thousands of lawyers, I can speak
33:53
from experience.
33:55
Lawyers have to take continuing legal education every year and in order to keep their law
34:00
license active, but they never have to take a test and they don't have to pay attention
34:05
in class because they're reading a people magazine.
34:08
And so, and they're not required to take, and this is what drives me crazy, lawyers are
34:13
not required to take CLE in their genre, so if you are a divorce attorney, for example,
34:21
you can practically take, if they offer it for continuing legal education, you could
34:24
take underwater basket weed.
34:26
Now, of course, there's no such class, I'm being suspicious, but it's ridiculous.
34:31
You can take criminal law, you can do anything you want in these classes.
34:35
And when they go to law school, I know Vanderbilt Law School has already invited Professor
34:41
Murray to actually create a class on divorce real estate because it is not a of focus in
34:49
law school.
34:50
And so lawyers learn a lot about a lot, and then they pass the bar association, and they
34:56
use something called a custom, and you can ask Rita about this, because I'm sure she's
35:00
quite familiar with it.
35:01
The custom is appraisal minus mortgage, equity, and you're done, so it becomes, the house
35:09
becomes a monopoly game, and I'm not going to tell you what we teach the lenders, but
35:15
what we want to do, and this is where the lending industry has a very respected lawyer
35:22
counting their praises, because in our due diligence that we train judges, lawyers,
35:28
mediators, and paralegals on, we tell them that if their client only does one thing to
35:35
go beyond, you know, the appraisal, it should be pre-divorced mortgage consultation.
35:42
And I won't expound on that, but imagine having a lawyer like Professor Murray promoting
35:51
the need for mortgage consultation early in every single divorce before mediation, because
35:57
mediation can bind you.
35:59
You make a mistake in mediation, and the judge can't undo it in many states.
36:03
And we go state by state.
36:06
So if we're training people in, you were in California with us, Jess, and we were talking
36:11
California divorce law, not to turn people into many lawyers, but if you understand what
36:17
lawyers need from you, and you understand what they are not aware of, and where you, again,
36:23
there's a problem, and you're the solution, you can speak with conviction, when Wendy
36:31
Thompson speaks to a lawyer, they're going to listen to her, because she understands
36:37
fully her role in this, and Rita driver, that's why judges rely on her, because she knows
36:43
what she's doing, and she realizes that they need to believe her, and so that's why Rita
36:50
is constantly improving her education and learning, because lawyers are people too.
36:55
And when they realize that you're actually helping them, and you're not charging them
37:01
by the hour, you're creating a better result, because even the laziest lawyers out there
37:06
want a decent result so that they can get their clients, pleased with the result, and
37:12
referring them to another client.
37:15
So a couple of great points in there, and I think the biggest takeaway for me is if you're
37:19
going to be attempting to work in this market of divorce attorneys, it's very important
37:25
that you know what to say, and how to approach them, because they will just, you know,
37:31
see you out the door, if you even get to the door.
37:34
They'll be polite about it, but they won't work with you.
37:37
Again, if you don't show them that you understand their need from you, and how you fill it,
37:45
you've got to be a good communicator, and that's why we started writing, the script for
37:49
everyone, and creating the marketing material, because left to our own devices, a lot of
37:53
us will get lazy, and we'll think, I'll just mail this to someone.
37:57
You land one lawyer, and that lawyer, you do a good job for one lawyer, they're going
38:01
to give you probably two or three more lawyers.
38:03
Absolutely.
38:04
They'll run and you.
38:07
May I jump in here, Jeff?
38:09
Yeah.
38:10
I want to expand a little bit on what Aunt Wendy just had to say, because she's counting
38:16
my praises, and I appreciate that.
38:21
There's really no praise to you to a realtor that is a true bonafide, not saint of heart
38:29
realtor.
38:31
If a realtor is looking to a divorce attorney or a divorced judge to be their bread and
38:38
butter, simply because they state that they're a realtor, and they've been one for 20 minutes,
38:44
it's probably not the best realtor fit in that divorce case.
38:52
The way I laid mine out, and Aunt Wendy has said it so eloquently, is my closing attorney
38:59
is also a practicing civil attorney who is also a mediator.
39:08
I started with him, that's exactly how I started.
39:12
I already had a positive relationship with him, because he knows that when I bring him
39:18
a file to close, I've not fooled any funny business.
39:22
I've given him every piece of the transaction that I possibly can, and I have helped him
39:28
to set up his file down to giving them, they are in, they're going through a divorce or
39:35
this one has filed for a divorce, everybody has to be here.
39:38
This is the wife.
39:39
This is a girlfriend, so don't take her signature.
39:42
I do everything in my power to protect my closing attorney, so he already knew that.
39:49
I do the same thing to protect my lender.
39:52
I actually got involved with him after taking Kelly Marie's class and meeting Aunt Wendy
40:00
and Kelly, because I saw the need for him to be able to improve his business relations
40:09
with his clients who were divorcing, no matter who listed the house or who refinanced
40:16
one spouse or the other.
40:18
It was a need that had to be filled.
40:22
My experiences have carried me now from starting with just him to he is putting me in divorce
40:29
to crease.
40:30
I get those calls from one spouse or the other, you and I were discussing earlier prior
40:36
to recording, and it's a shock to them, but it's gotten to a point also where I have
40:43
to go to court and stand in front of a judge and be nonjudgmental of either spouse, be
40:51
very transparent with both spouses and both attorneys.
40:56
When you get into a courtroom, now you're in front of two potential buyers, a potential
41:03
seller and two additional attorneys who are representing each party.
41:11
There's how I grew my business because I had that credibility, but you better be ready
41:18
as a realtor to stand in front of that judge and tell it like it is and be able to back
41:25
it up with your solid foundational truth.
41:30
Absolutely.
41:31
Again, what I was saying earlier, it's the ought to be the right person who's willing to
41:37
make that level of investment and commitment to being a professional in all of that means.
41:43
It's funny what just dawned on me is for those listening that right now, lenders and
41:47
you're thinking about, geez, how would I at least get a realtor interested in this potentially.
41:52
We've got some solutions for you on that before we wrap the call, but also have them listen
41:57
to this podcast because it's a great way to introduce them to the overall concept of
42:01
that and just be kind of the start of that conversation.
42:04
Would you think that's a good idea, Aunt Wendy?
42:07
Yes.
42:08
And send them to our website, divorcethishouse.com, people are on it all the time.
42:14
You'd be amazed when you ask a realtor if they have thought about working in the divorce
42:20
niche.
42:21
They're going to have a strong reaction positive or negative.
42:25
And those folks that get in touch with me, lenders and realtors will say, oh my gosh,
42:31
I just found you, I was googling divorce, you know, real estate on the internet and saying,
42:38
goodness, you're out there.
42:40
This looks perfect for me because everybody has a different reason.
42:44
You know, they personally have gone through a divorce.
42:46
We have a lot of realtors to take our trainings whose child is going through a divorce.
42:50
And we have those statistics, which is fascinating is that Jeff, you were learning about the
42:55
grade divorces and the silver divorces, you know, that's our fastest growing divorce
43:01
market and they have equity.
43:05
They can refinance.
43:06
They can get a right size residence, but they need help.
43:09
And the lawyers, once the lawyer realizes the help that you can provide as an RCSD and
43:17
that stands for real estate, collaboration, specialist divorce, then they start helping
43:22
you and referring you and Rita driver is a perfect example of that.
43:27
And then Rita invited Wendy to come on board and get the training and see we want either
43:32
the realtors will bring us the lenders or the lenders bring us the realtors and we're
43:36
going to be bringing the lender class online probably next month, maybe that hopefully
43:44
the end of this month, but next month for sure.
43:47
And then we already have the realtor class online, but we also do live classes and that
43:52
was like the one that you attended Jeff.
43:54
Exactly.
43:55
And of course, the one I attended part of the that is you and I discussed before is I see
44:01
this as a great opportunity, which is of course, you know, proof and proof is in the
44:05
putting right here with Wendy Thompson and Rita together here for you loan officers listening
44:09
is this is of course a great opportunity to team up with a few select agents and invite
44:13
them to participate, you know, you know, in becoming a divorce specialist, but along
44:18
with that, you know, what you could do as a lender if you're listening is once you complete
44:22
the lender class, you can then host your own realtor class and, you know, bring at Wendy
44:28
and Professor Murray to your city and be a great way for you to ignite and grow your realtor
44:32
relationships there as well.
44:34
So let's transition, I guess in the few remaining minutes we have to talk a little bit about
44:39
next steps for those listening at Wendy, because I know what we want to do is there's
44:43
only so much time to cover on the podcast and there's probably going to be some questions
44:46
and people want to take a deeper dive.
44:48
So we've got a webinar that we're going to do for those that want to, you know, learn
44:53
more about this and how do I possibly, you know, take the online class or host a class
44:58
for realtors and when are you coming live to my city, all those different questions and
45:01
then of course, right, what does it mean to be to become to receive that designation
45:05
as a loan officer?
45:07
So we have a webinar.
45:08
I'm going to put a link in the show notes, but the address for it, if you are listening
45:11
and you want to register, it's webinar.devoursmortgagespecialist.com, I'll say it again, webinar.devoursmortgagespecialist.com
45:23
and the link will be in the show notes.
45:24
So if you're listening, you can just get a link right there.
45:25
It's a webinar.
45:26
It's going to be Thursday, May 24th, 11 Pacific, where's that 11, that's 2 o'clock Eastern,
45:32
so it's going to be about 45 minutes and we're going to be going through, right, some
45:37
of these elements that we just don't have time in this format to dive deep into, everything
45:41
you'll need to know to make an informed decision about taking the next step and receiving
45:45
your designation in this specialty, this niche.
45:49
And Wendy, any other things you want to add to that piece or anything else?
45:53
Well, just adding that we're going to be talking about the TCJA, the tax cuts and job
46:00
acts, the changes that will be affected with the divorce, and Professor Murray is going
46:06
to be actually doing the webinar, so you'll get a taste of what it's like to have Professor
46:11
Murray live on webinar, and then we're hoping that we'll have other people training for
46:17
us in other states for the live classes that we're starting with this to see interest.
46:24
Absolutely.
46:26
And I can tell you personally having gone through the class, it is definitely top notch,
46:30
I learned a lot of things in there, it's not light and fluffy, it's not a brush-over,
46:35
you're going to learn a lot of stuff that you didn't know about the mortgage process
46:38
and some really eye-opening things, and then of course, along with that is, for me, as
46:44
I sit there, I'm scratching my head going, man, I wish I was still originating because
46:49
to Wendy Thompson's point earlier, we're all looking for that kind of slight edge and
46:53
how do we not be so dependent upon one niche that's historically being real estate agents,
46:58
still a great niche, still very profitable, and if I could, I'm going to press you just
47:03
a little bit at Wendy to share one or two success stories from some of your other loan
47:07
offers of students across the country who are far along in their journey on this in
47:12
terms of what it's made a difference in their business.
47:14
Well, I have one loan officer who took the training January 2017, and I would send an
47:21
email saying, hey, do you need any coaching, how's it going over there, and I would just
47:25
get a thumbs up from his phone, so I let him be, and I got a call from him last November,
47:32
it was around Thanksgiving, and he said, hey, Wendy, I want to thank you, and I said,
47:35
for what?
47:36
Nothing.
47:37
And he goes, what?
47:38
I've done 20, he goes, I had 70 transactions with just two divorce attorneys in Denver.
47:45
And so he is a great success story.
47:49
Now he was lucky.
47:51
Divorce attorneys are like any other professional.
47:54
There are those that have very large practices that are busy and have high asset divorces,
48:00
and he was lucky to land two of those who have an ongoing 50 client a month business.
48:09
So they have ongoing divorces of about 50 clients a month.
48:13
Some are larger, Tampa, I've had someone in Tampa who's almost reached that number.
48:19
And we will teach you to work with divorce attorneys, but also financial professionals.
48:23
So that's another niche.
48:26
And Professor Murray is going to be training them in a more official capacity, third quarter,
48:33
fourth quarter of this year, and then going into next year.
48:37
And we'll show you how to do that.
48:38
And Jeff got to learn about how when we're doing live classes, we'll invite a financial
48:43
professional lunch and learn.
48:46
So instead of breaking for lunch and everybody just chitchatting, we invite you to invite
48:51
your financial professionals to come for lunch.
48:54
And Professor Murray teaches them in about 20 minutes what's missing from the marital balance
48:58
sheet.
48:59
And people in the class who invite a financial professional, if they're working with divorce
49:04
attorneys, you will get an introduction to the divorce attorney that week.
49:08
Wow.
49:09
That's awesome.
49:10
Fantastic.
49:11
Well, look, once again, the link will be in the show notes to the webinar webinar.
49:14
divorce mortgage specialist.com, encourage you to be there, make, make, make plans to
49:18
be there right now for Thursday, May 24th, register.
49:21
I'm trying to come up with a, what do I call you?
49:24
Power trio here.
49:25
We got Wendy and Wendy.
49:26
You guys need to name like superheroes or something.
49:31
Fantastic.
49:32
I appreciate you guys making time from your busy day.
49:37
And you know, thank you so much for sharing and I know this is coming all from the heart
49:40
from you guys.
49:41
And that's why I just appreciate you all being here so much.
49:43
Well, you appreciate it.
49:44
Any opportunity?
49:45
Awesome.
49:46
And listeners, as always, if you like this episode, please let us know, leave a review.
49:50
Feel free to reach out to me over email, contact me on the blog.
49:54
And we'll look forward to hopefully seeing you on that webinar in the show note links,
49:58
show notes.
49:59
Check it out.
50:00
Thursday, May 24th, 11 Pacific.
50:01
Until the next one.
50:02
Okay.
50:03
Great day.
50:04
Bye.
50:05
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