Latest / Sales Trajectory Podcast / Elite Sales Performance Meets Equipment Rental Innovation with Michael Larsen

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Elite Sales Performance Meets Equipment Rental Innovation with Michael Larsen · Sales Trajectory Podcast

• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the sales trajectory podcast, where innovation meets execution in sales.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jason Howes, your host, a 35-year sales veteran and lifelong student of the game.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is for leaders and sales professionals with a growth mindset.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: You'll hear real sales stories about new products, motivating teams to prospect, and boost productivity.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: We dive deep into sales process, cutting edge tech, and recruiting top sales performers.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get started.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is someone who brings a completely fresh perspective to our conversations on sales, leadership, and high performance culture.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Larson is a global voice in the equipment rental industry, co-host of the Rental Journal podcast, which now gains over 120,000 impressions per month across all platforms.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Michael is a second generation of the Larson Hire family, specializing in solution-based rental equipment for Australia's heavy industries.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Michael and the Rental Journal have interviewed hundreds of operators from around the globe that centers around authenticity and personality in customer relationships and the idea that the fastest growing companies are the ones that with meaning, the science of performance with the art of human connection.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're going to explore the crossover between elite sales performance, consultative selling, solution-based thinking, recruiting top sales talent, and the intangibles that truly drive success.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Michael, welcome to the show.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, and thanks for having me, Jason.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Additionally, a thank you to yourself on behalf of the HRA Queensland Committee for your unbelievable continued support and your unbelievably talented daughter, Charlise, as well, for not only your continued support but sponsorship of our AGM last fortnight.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love the fact of your world of elite sales performance, sales culture, transformation, and recruiting top-tier sales talent intersects beautifully with the world that I live in through the discussions with the world's leading minds of the rental industry that we're fortunate enough to host on our platform of the Rental Journal.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And to how we provide targeted solutions in the equipment rental industry here in our rental store of Larson Higher, providing to Queensland's largest contractors and tier one clients across various heavy industries.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, over the past few years and the interviews that we've done with, like you said, hundreds of operators across the globe, has not only revealed but solidified one thing consistently that the companies that grow and thrive don't just supply good equipment, but they have elite salespeople.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Michael, you uh hit the nail on the head there, and it takes uh a lot to make a high performance sales team and a lot for a business to become successful.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: But look, I do appreciate your kind words, and we did really enjoy attending and sponsoring the event.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for yeah, allowing Charlize to come along and and we grab some absolutely amazing footage there of the beautiful Brisbane skyline, high quality uh images, some great people around, and even did a couple of short interviews as well.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, Michael, um just tell us a bit about I know I ran through some key areas about yourself and what you do, but I mean, what does a day-to-day activity look like for you and your business?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we provide rental equipment to various heavy industries across our state uh with portable HVAC equipment and power generation, and then also with the with the sideline doing the the podcast as well, which has just been unbelievable exposure for not only our our business, growing connections across the rental community and international friendships now and to having opportunities like this.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: You always make the time to talk to people, you always make the time to to put yourself in other people's shoes, and I think that's that's a great thing that that really impressed me uh with yourself and and I believe you've you've become a very big part of the HRIA group as well in a short period of time.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's I've been extremely fortunate, that's for sure.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh being in a small family business in a regional area, you kind of become like a horse with blinders-ons.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, getting out, seeing the broader industry uh and linking with people in more domain-specific areas like yourself on sales really helps me grow as a young person, um, not only in the rental industry, but in my career.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, Michael, just a quick one we always ask, I guess, what drives you to sell more?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's that overarching drive to win, and that relates directly to sales.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: My dad always says that businesses like his sport, and I think that that's extremely the case.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: People that are naturally inclined to a high performance culture naturally will probably land in a sales role.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so people-based as well, uh wanting to connect and drive and and solve those solutions, which I think perfectly ties into to what you do and the psychologies and uh the problem solving, solving areas that you focus on when looking for elite salespeople.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, you're right, Michael.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I actually did have a good chat to your dad the other night, and uh yeah, I can see uh you're obviously uh, you know, he's he's he's a good guy, very passionate what he does, and yeah, no, it was really good to chat with him as as well.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we'll we'll move into uh some of these key areas that that we find critical for sales success, and that is the psychology and problem solving, and and that leverages off to consultative selling, question-based selling.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And where where I've done a lot of work over the years is is when we're coaching and training salespeople andor recruiting, we're always looking for people that are really good listeners and people that can be in the moment and and put themselves in somebody else's shoes because I think if you're not that person, well then it you're going to really struggle to to see opportunities arise.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there's plenty of salespeople out there that will turn up and just pitch but not even ask about where the the client's at or what they're looking for or where their problems are from your perspective in in the hire industry and what you guys do in your business.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think that relates back to to uh being successful in sales?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks, Jace.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's such a great place to start because I I really believe the equipment rental industry is a masterclass in the field of consultative selling.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're often selling solutions with impacted weather conditions, breakdowns, reducing risk and downtime, aligning contractors in meeting compliance requirements or looking to help the client to gain operational efficiencies as well.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Rental companies used to simply sell or just provide equipment, extremely transactional and hard to separate or differentiate yourself or your service when you operate in a commoditized arena, which, you know, always initiates a price battle, which ultimately leads to a race to the bottom and overall an unhealthy industry, you know.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: But we're now seeing our industry adapt, focusing on value-based sales, how they can sell outcomes, sell solutions, and gain differentiation across the market.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: But that shift requires a totally different breed of salesperson to everything we've seen globally on the rental journal, the biggest separator can be easily summarized and sounds extremely simple in a vacuum, but is so hard to 100% master.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that elite salespeople leave with questions, not with statements.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: That average salespeople conversate with customers, but elite salespeople display genuine curiosity during that conversation.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a perfect illustration of this is the famous scene from the Wolf of Wall Street and the sell me of this pen scene that I'm sure most of the audience at home have seen.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: But the sell me this pen test, it isn't about promoting the product's features.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you see all the time most people jump straight into features.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: They're talking about the ink quality, the grip, the durability.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the point of that exercise isn't to sell a pen, it's to see whether the salesperson can uncover further context of the customer.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: It displays a salesperson's ability to uncover the client's true needs, gain context to the customer's environment, areas of emotion, and discover areas where they can add value.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's such a value in these why questions and seeking the emotional aspirations of the client.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why do you need this pen?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: What's at stake?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: What does success look like for you when using a pen?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because Jason, you know, people hate being sold, but boy, don't we love shopping with friends.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that I think the job of sales people isn't to push products, but it's to build relationships of value and present solutions that solve real problems.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me, that's sales psychology 101, playing empathy and interest in the client's desired identity.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why curiosity beats cleverness every single time, regardless of the industry.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we need to push for our salespeople to be curious over having charisma, that's for sure.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Love that, Michael.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh look, I've come from a manufacturing background and I've worked through wholesale and I've worked in trade a lot.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if I look back at the greatest sales success I always had and some of the really, really big contracts that I won, it was always based on finding a solution for a problem and helping them improve their situation, whether that's cost, whether that's supply, whether that's less waste, whether that's a servicing or whatever it is.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, right now it's it's really about, and I always say this to people, it's about being in the moment.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a and I left a space there after it because it that really makes the impact of silence.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we all need to, and it actually feels good when you do it, man.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's like most, you know, we should know the questions to ask to uncover the opportunities that we have in sales.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a top sales performer, you should already know what are the issues in the industry, and you should be able to then mirror that with the types of clients or the pri types of problems you've solved for other companies that have been successful.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Once you get that right and you have a sales process that you can follow and you can build on, then you can then move that through to the execution stage of going and seeing new people.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: But again, sitting down and and talking crap, literally, about how's your day and all that.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because right now, buyers are busy.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's juggling multiple balls at the moment.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a big thing.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, money's tight, margins are down, sales are down.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think to be a top sales performer, really need to be understanding of who you're targeting and how you're helping them, and don't waste their time.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that really flows into being proactive in your approach as a salesperson as well, not operating in this reactive mode that we were talking about a couple of nights ago in Brisbane, Jason.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think, especially in rental and operationally sporadic or intense industries, you know, and and rental by nature is reactive.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Something breaks, someone calls, someone needs something fixed right now.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's unavoidable.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: But the elite operators and elite salespeople, they don't react, they anticipate.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking to proactively see through this reactive matrix that we operate in.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's probably a bit of a canterian take, but it's so aligned with this conversation.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I believe that most sales teams don't lack motivation, they lack permission.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: The normal statement that you hear all the time is that our salespeople need more drive, they need to hustle more.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I think in some circumstances, we need to honestly ask ourselves if those salespeople are potentially trapped in a poorly designed system.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Systems that reward reactivity, not proactive decision making, when response time is rewarded over progressing customers through and along the pipeline.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Salespeople become expert, reactive problem solvers instead of proactive deal drivers.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we need to kind of reframe it and utilize a proactive framework, looking to diagnose, engineer, execute, support, and improve.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: When pondering on this concept yesterday, I actually remembered a story by Jin uh Jim Rohm, who talks about two salesmen waking up on the same rainy morning.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: When the first salesman looks out the window, he goes, Oh no, look at this storm.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: With weather like this, they can't expect me to go out and make sales.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: So he stays at home.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas the second salesman, who only lived two doors down, sees the exact same storm and says, Wow, what a storm.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is such a great opportunity.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: With weather like this, it's the perfect day to go out and make sales because most people will be at home, especially the other salesmen.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: But that to me, that's the definition of being proactive.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: The same rain, the same environment, the same opportunity for success, yet a totally different mindset, turning a shared obstacle into a vastly different outcome through a proactive pro and Jason, I'm sure you've seen anecdotally over the years that reactive salespeople, they live in their inbox, they wait for quotes, they confuse keyboard activity with progress, or like this story before, they stay at home and don't get out in the rain.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think proactive salespeople block time, they hunt intentionally and they move opportunities through the pipeline with purpose and with deliberate focus.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Michael had a lot of year done a lot of years in sales, uh always learning though.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um 35 years now.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh manage sales teams for probably nearly 15 of those national teams.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and I always remember my guys used to get annoyed because if I was out there, if we were doing dual calls, I would always push for one more call.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: If we looked at the end of the day and we're like, oh no, I think we've we've had enough, it's like, let's just do one more call, right?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Love the concept of go one more.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a fitness guy called Nick Bear, and his company is called Go One More.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all about in his specific case, it's about one more rep, one more workout, things like that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: But a power of one more or one percent better every day, that compounds.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Look, it does.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, right now, I mean, I work with a lot of sales teams, and and one of the biggest issues at the moment is and what and my focus, my core focus is to make sure that leaders and businesses and our clients are making a return on investment on their salespeople.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's no use going into the the business and seeing all the youths in the driveway every day.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're sitting there, the reps are at the computers, they're in reactive mode.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I always say to people, you know what, if you really want to know what a salesperson's up to and what's happening, is have a sit down with them, say, right, oh, let's look at your calendar.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Where's your appointments?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you going this week?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because if they're not in there or where's your target list, if I if I ask you straight away, you should be able to go bang, bang, bang, you should be able to name at least five to ten targets and you should be able to show where you're at with those opportunities.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a huge cost.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh$200,000 for a salesperson, if you're talking a BDN,$200,000.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, if you're not a lot of people don't understand how to the calculate to see whether they are making a return on investment, and that's why it's really important because I mean, if if all your people are there just doing customer service, and it's easy to get, and I've been there, like I did years on the road, and I I know it's easy to get in there and check your emails and put out a few fires, but normally once you get to that 10 or 11 a.m.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: bracket, if they haven't gone, well, they're not gonna go because I'll go, I'll go tomorrow.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think the biggest issue in that regard is them just not knowing what a good client looks like.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think this happens, Jason, because no one ever stops to define it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, most salespeople are told to go sell more, but not told who to sell to, which is perfectly connected to one of the chapters in your book, which I loved reading as as well over the weekend, Jason.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: But that's surrounding assessing the capabilities and understanding what good looks like.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly aligning your internal sales team with the goal external stakeholders, that a good client isn't always the one with the biggest budget.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: A good client is someone whose problem set matches your solution set.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: When companies clearly define their ideal customer, a clear vision of the key industries aligned with scale, buying urgency and buying triggers, everything can prove from the internal communication, defining qualifications of your salespeople, streamlining pipeline flow, and it determines what success looks like at the end of the day and the required customer experience to deliver.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Without us clearly defining our ideal customer, you don't have a sales strategy for your people.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're just operating on hope and letting them sit in the ute until 10 a.m.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or sit in the ute on the side of the road with the air con on doing customer service, Mike.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big uh key area we work with our clients is really understanding what a good client looks like and how you help fix their problems.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you without being as I said, I'm a salesperson, right?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the difference.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've done it for years.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: I still sell actively sell every day.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: A high percentage of salespeople have never had any training or development.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you can get so far, but you get to that point where you really need to, you know, pull out the big guns and be able to win, you know, your dream clients and do it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's where they really struggle, right?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then on the flip side of that with sales management, someone might have been good at Sally, you know, good at sales, and all of a sudden someone's left and they're like, right oh, you can manage the team.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you also have to manage your own territory.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So someone will only coach and teach to the ability that they've been taught.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Again, most sales managers have never been taught how to manage and lead a sales team.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of um roadblocks to greater sales success.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: I could honestly sit here and say that if someone, you know, some companies might be happy with five or 10% growth.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: What's the impact to your business if you start to get 30 to 40% growth?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: What's the impact to your business if you start to win your dream accounts and your salespeople out in the field more?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: You've got internal support people, which are probably paying them a third of the price, right?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, or you're using automation and you're using technology.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we're missing the really big opportunities at the moment.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's sitting here making excuses for the marketplace.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's not as busy.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there's a lot of competition or pricing's very competitive.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: We need to remove all those excuses.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you'd see this in your industry, I'm sure, as well.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of companies don't have a sales manager.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: So effectively the business owner or the manager is the sales manager, but they're doing operations, accounting, finance, all these other things.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's there's a there's a big there's a big gap there at the moment.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, and I think it's one of the biggest uh global issues that we see that great salespeople don't automatically become great managers.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And too many businesses hire someone, hand them the keys, and hope for the best.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's not leadership, that's just outsourcing your accountability.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And something that owners consistently mentioned to me is that they become accidental sales managers and that they were never taught egos get in the way, coaching is non-existent, is unclear, and accountability is non-existent.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we're also focused on integrating these digital tools to solve these inefficiencies that we've mentioned.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: But humans build trust and drive successful teams.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Digital tools are more of a vitamin and a supplement to empower your sales team.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: But proactive and expert sales managers, they're the true painkiller that drives true sales team performance.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: But you can't replace expert presence or active leadership.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but I like to look at this conversation of sales attributes through a more optimistic lens regarding the nature versus nurture conversation.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hiring based purely on nature, meaning sales pedigree, resume, and background, is one of the biggest mistakes that's been described to me globally, that this fixed mindset, it's pessimistic.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: It assumes people can't grow beyond their past and that their value is predescribed and fixed.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: But when you hire through a lens of nurture, you're hiring with optimism that people can grow, they can develop, adapt, and respond to coaching.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It raises your ceiling of what's possible.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Even the biological framework of epigenetics and environmental influences further affirms that salespeople, like all people, are no different.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: That we're all lifelong learners and we're all extremely malleable.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: But someone with the right traits and a high-performing culture with a clear runway, coaching, structure, and accountability, their capability will extremely multiply.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite metaphors is actually from uh a Joe Rogan episode with Adam Carolla, and it's this brilliant story of how sniffer dog trainers actually select bomb-sniffing dogs from the pound.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the trainers never choose on a specific breed or pedigree, but they look for all the dogs with the most enthusiasm and driven nature because they can be taught the best.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, similarly to an episode I did with a guest named Elliot Vidil, who explained that his best sales people across the US, they never came from.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Traditional backgrounds.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: They were involved in sport, music, grew up on a farm.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: They worked in hospitality or they served in the military.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: They displayed a built-in discipline.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: They were coachable.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: They could handle feedback and have immense resilience.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's true sales talent to me.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: They can we can all teach process, but you can't teach drive, which directly ties into your work, Jason, with crystal ball recruiting.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: That assessing the capability, removing bias, selecting indicators like hustle, humility, and hunger.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly how elite sales teams are built and what makes great sales managers.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Michael, you're talking my language now.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: For those that don't know, I'm just about to publish about to be published.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just fine-tuning a few things before we uh we go online.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then the look, the reason I wrote the book is is to try and help business leaders and owners to be able to hire with more confidence, to be able to do something new.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're stuck in this traditional recruitment method and process that doesn't work anymore.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Add in AI, the fact that people can now get a better resume or a cover letter that they didn't even write.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I've actually had some uh some guys work for me over the years from from the Navy and the Army, and you're right, they're very regimented, they're very uh they'll always turn up, they'll always do the job, and they will always be consistent.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing I really liked what you talked about is always being interested in people that have uh trained a lot for sport or competed a lot, whatever it is in life, because I think if you can find someone that has that that commitment and that energy and the motivation to succeed, I think that's that's one of the key areas as well.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: But with uh with my book, like it's written across, it's not just about recruiting, it's it's attract, recruit, tame.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the key areas that we need to be looking at now because a lot of companies know 50% of hires fail.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: They say it's up now to 75% of hires fail.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: You've you would have seen it before though, too.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's if you're lucky enough and you get into a really good business and you have the good accounts, well, it's easy to sort of look like you're doing really well.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, the true salespeople, the true sales professionals, I should say, are the ones that can create progress and win new business opportunities.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the key area that I want to try and help your group as well as other associations we're involved in is giving them the best salespeople and and investing in their training and development.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's a thing.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in a lot of situations, it's it's still not being done and it needs to change.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's having a huge impact on companies.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think going back to your comment of retain, because it's easy to to get someone interested, but to keep them around for the long run.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually how you gain differentiation over a long term with that accumulation of knowledge on the customer and those built-in relationships that are grown over a long time that supply you with dividends in the future, which I think going back to that word retainment, it's a really more alignment and providing focus for the sales team, which is so critical.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, segmentation of the market, it gives salespeople focus.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Elite performers, they don't chase everything, they pursue high probability opportunities inside a defined lane.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's how they operate the best, which I think perfectly links to um a conversation that I had this year at the American Rental Show in Las Vegas, which was described to me as the seven secrets to mastering the art of influence, which comprised of understanding your audience, adapting proactive communication, active listening and orientating your storytelling, looking to be a situational chameleon across not only your sales, but deliberate with marketing alignment as well to your ideal customer.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when the market isn't segmented, solutions don't land.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: When it is, sales becomes repeatable and clear instead of random and undefined.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need to be relentlessly niche and have a holistic approach with our sales processes to our market segmentation and specifically that ideal customer profile.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think we can all agree that an increased focus reduces friction, increases velocity, and overall improves moral morale by presenting a shared vision.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how we can retain those really key people.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that when sales teams know who to sell to, their confidence goes up, not down, because they have a runway towards the sales success finish line.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: What I love about the HRIA is I really do love the culture you guys got.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've said this to people before.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't actually seen a culture so strong within an industry association.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a credit to you.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you've also got a lot of companies that have really good culture.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: In crystal ball recruiting, we do talk a lot about if you want to attract the top performers, well, then you've got to tick a lot of boxes to do that.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to have a strong culture, you've got to have a supportive network of people in there to make sure that the people can be on boarded successfully and can be managed suitably.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it needs to be a good place to work, somewhere they're proud to work.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: You need to have those good products and services, you need to have good marking that they can utilize.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you don't have that, well, again, you might attract, but you're going to lose them.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that that retainment part is critical.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that again comes back to some of the chapters that talks about how to attract, how to select, how to make sure you're rewarding them properly.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: There is a lot of boxes to tick, but the as you know, these are areas you can improve on.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a big thing at the moment, the companies that will go outside the s the box and try new things.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you look at it right now, and I'd I'd love to get your thoughts on this, I it'd be fair to say there's a high percentage of companies that don't have a sales process that is built into technology that their new people can follow.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think if companies are wanting to to win these big whales, the dream accounts, there has to be some truths internally, which I think we can really break into three segments.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, number one has to be recruiting people with this right attitude that are hungry, curious, coachable, and have potential that we don't see as predetermined, like we mentioned before.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Potential is always activated.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think the second one has to be role clarity from the junk.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Elite individuals shouldn't be drowning in admin.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: They want to perform, they don't want to be handicapped.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because when a salesperson fails, it's rarely a talent issue.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost always an environmental issue within the organization.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the third one has to be setting a clear runway, which is a term that you said to me the other night, which I really like.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Big accounts, they take time, they take depth, develop relationships and patience over the long run.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can't win the big whales if your sales team and sales people are juggling everything and owning nothing with no accountability.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Most companies think they lose the big accounts because they're not big enough, when in reality they lose them because they're potentially not boring enough internally.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And when I mean not boring enough, whilst this sounds a bit backwards, but the big clients, they don't want to hear about your internal chaos.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to hear about the heroic-driven egos that you have within your sales team.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: They want boring relatability reliability and delivered consistency.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Dream accounts want innovation from your internal processes leveraged towards total and holistic reliability.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's suppliers with consistent solutions over the long run.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got the wrong people in the wrong role and they're doing the wrong activities and they're not even going to see anyone or they don't know who to see, well then you've got a problem, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And why I see this quite often, Michael, where someone will recruit someone and the manager's so desperate to get someone in the seat so that they can take all the problems off their off their desk.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what it's not all about.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: One of the areas we love to work with as well is that when we go and help our clients recruit or we recruit for them, we're always looking for the best salesperson, right?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we understand what the role looks like, we understand what needs to be done.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And again, a little bit different because I've been in sales.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a recruiter that's just turned up and started and never worked in the job, and I've led teams as well.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I understand, you know, how things work, but we're too focused still on industry experience.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: The talent pool is very small, and when you put in bias, which is a chapter on bias in the book, you understand more that how we're all trying to hire the same types of people.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're paying them more because they're so hard to find.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're turning up.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people, unfortunately, are not meeting expectations because the hiring manager is expecting them to fix all their problems.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going to happen.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: It might have a band-aid on there, but again, what we're talking about, that's why we're now focusing on the top 20%.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the elite is the top 5%.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Call it the unicorn, right?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: The unicorn.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Occasionally you can find a unicorn, but the top 20% will make a huge impact to your business if, as you said, you can hire the right person, get them the right activities, give them everything they need to succeed.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: No more excuses.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think we see this all the time, um, especially here in Australia.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: We reward tenure, not hunger.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And someone that might be quite young, in their twenties, mightn't have the industry experience, but they have that drive, that grit, that determination.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna outlast the guy that's been around for three decades that is still sitting in the Ute with the aircom blowing.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just because you've been there and been around doesn't mean you've been performing, right?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: We really have to focus on that high performance mindset.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Going back to something that you said to me the other night, Jason, which really made me think a lot about it, was the alignment between our sales and marketing, which I think is a non-negotiable.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing should be arming our sales with insight of the customer trends, the ideal customer profile that they're aligning their messaging to, context to what warms the buyer.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: But sales should be feeding back real-time and real-world intelligence and insights from their boots on the ground conversations with the customer on the customer's developing objections, questions, the customer's language that they're providing.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Most companies don't lose dream accounts of the competitors, they lose them to internal chaos.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: The common belief is that we need to have better sales tactics, but the truth is that a misaligned marketing rollout quietly kills your credibility and influences the customer's perception of your brand before the pitch even starts.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when sales and marketing work in silos and in isolation, friction increases.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And when they're aligned and collaborative, that fosters unbelievable advantages.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I actually studied uh marketing many years ago because I wanted to understand it more.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not a marketing person, right?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I openly admit that I'm a salesperson.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a thing.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you try and put a marketing person in a sales job or an operational person in a sales job, doesn't work.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, right now, one of the biggest opportunities is uh is aligning sales and marketing, making it work for your business, generating leads.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've told this story a few times that I've got one particular client, they've got more leads than they they know what to do with, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean the business does it so well because they're ticking all the boxes, you know.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think right now, I mean, when you think about it, a lot of companies can't afford to have a marketing manager.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where a lot of years ago that's what they would have said.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we're not big enough to have someone.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: But now you can outsource things all around the world.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, invest in finding a really good person for your social, your digital, and your marketing.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think again, it will help drive new business opportunities, make you stand out from the crowd.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I could honestly look at the industry I predominantly operate in and see probably count on my hands how many companies I see that do it really well.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's an untapped resource.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like we were mentioning before we started recording here, Jason, is the power of social media, the power of cross-pollinating with different industries and really growing your brand presence.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just uh absolute non-negotiable today and such a great thing to leverage regardless of the industry that you operate in.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, as a business owner myself, things are moving so quickly.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is hard to keep up on.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've got Google, you've got all, you know, the the paid ads or the sponsored ads on, you know, all the platforms these days.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in my opinion, right now, I think if you want to get any traction, you're gonna have to start paying for it.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you know, it's gonna be a battle.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: But then again, on the flip side of that, I've seen a lot of collaboration between a lot of companies and clients and getting really good traction.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I think that's the other area is to, you know, if you do your business really well and you're providing such a good product and a solution to the needs, well, then people will do your marketing for you.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's there's always uh exceptions to the rule, that's for sure, Jason.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if we had to summarize our conversation today, I believe that it has to be this overarching ideology that the highest performing sales cultures all share the same traits.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: They hire for this curiosity, they teach consultation, not selling, they define and constantly refine their ideal customer as they grow.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: They align sales and marketing, like we just said.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: They build proactive systems, not complacency followed by a reactive response.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they coach their people instead of throwing them the set of keys and hoping for the best.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And culturally, I think this mindset separates great sales teams from average ones.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: And something that I think we need to leave with our sales people and sales managers listening in today on how they can consistently be activating these philosophies that we've described is back to a concept that I really like called the camera theory.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Treat your life like a camera, focus on what's important, capture the good, develop from the negatives, and if it doesn't work out, take another shot.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's literally how elite salespeople operate.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they don't get stuck in the negatives, they develop from them, they adjust, they try again, they refine and again proactively seek another shot.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that mindset to me is exactly what yourself and arrow stands for, Jason.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I think, yeah, thank you for your time.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for this opportunity, and thank you to all of the listeners today.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's been great catching up with you, Michael.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I do appreciate you uh you coming on to the sales trajectory podcast.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think just just to finish on that coaching um comment you made there, 50% of a sales manager's time should be coaching and supporting their salespeople.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a small to medium business, we which we deal a lot with and you and there's no sales manager, well then as the business owner or the branch manager or site manager or whatever it is, that's you.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's you.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you know, we love helping companies that that want to take a fresh approach and and have that growth mindset and want to try something new.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a big thing at the moment.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna stay in the lane you're in, well then it's gonna be a struggle.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll finish up there, great chatting with you, and I will catch you around in the new year.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Happy New Year and uh have a safe and Merry Christmas.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, JC.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, buddy.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Got a product that's struggling or launching something new?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Reach out.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're inviting guests who want to make a real impact.