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The Serendipitous Path to Brand Strategy with Patrick Collins · We Built This Brand

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  Yes you cant satisfy everyone, but if you have a strong
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  brand strategy and foundation and you do those workshops
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  And you continue to evolve and edit, zoom in and zoom out, you're gonna
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  be able to get all the way from like executive top, whether that's
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  a founder or CEO down to that like, you know, the, the writers and
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  design team that you're building, that brand book or those templates
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  for, and when they all sort of trust it and believe in it and, and
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  have energy for it, that's where you're gonna perform the best.
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  Welcome to, we Built this brand, the podcast where we talk to
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  the creators and collaborators behind brands and provide you with
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  practical insights that you can use in growing your own business.
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  Did you know that it doesn't always take a degree
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  in marketing to become an expert in this field?
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  Sometimes it takes a degree in art or medieval history or even women's studies.
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  In today's episode, I'm talking with Patrick Collins, the head of
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  strategy and partner at the Chicago based agency, some odd pilot.
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  We discuss his unconventional career path from an agree women's
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  studies to brand strategy and how it influences his work.
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  Today we dive into some great projects that he and his
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  team have worked on, like Darn Tough Socks, as well as
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  the rebranding of both Lollapalooza and Kimberly Clark.
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  And the contrast in between.
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  So get your marketing socks on and join me as we dive into
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  this conversation with Patrick Collins of some odd pilot.
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  All right.
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  Well, Patrick, welcome to We Built This Brand.
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  Thank you for having me, Chris.
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  How's it going?
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  It's going well, man.
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  I'm, I'm really excited to be here talking today about, um, your background
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  with some odd pilot and, and learn a little bit more about you and what you do.
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  So typically how I'd like to dive into these is just to learn a little bit
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  about where you got your start and what led you to where you are today.
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  So, um, yeah, how did you get into this industry?
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  Yeah, no, definitely.
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  Great question.
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  Um, it's, I sort of had a strange path, so I won't go like back
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  to when I was born, but I am, um, born and raised in Chicago
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  and I went to undergrad and grad school in Chicago at DePaul.
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  Um, and so in undergrad I actually studied women's
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  and gender studies and policy, public policy.
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  And then in grad school I studied gender studies so at first glance
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  neither of those You know might have like a clear through line to
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  creative strategy or brand strategy, but I think both ultimately are
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  about understanding people and so, and a lot of writing and research.
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  And so in the meantime though, after grad school, I was
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  working at a women's, um, cons, high end upscale women's
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  consignment store and boutique new clothing as well.
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  While working there began running the website or actually
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  like helped build sort of like working with a creative team.
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  At that point, I didn't even really know what a creative agency
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  was, but I was the client on the, on the other end of the calls
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  as we built this like very custom, really beautiful e-comm site.
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  And then ultimately I was the one that was managing that site.
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  So on the backend.
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  Um, the uploading all of that.
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  So in the CRM all the way to, like, I was writing the
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  headlines, the product descriptions, I was packaging the items.
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  Um, so I was all of a sudden getting unknowingly this sort of like
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  taste of, of e-comm and what sort of like agencies do and how they work.
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  And in the meantime, or at the same time, rather.
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  I was introduced to a friend of a friend, um, and she is one of the
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  co-owners of Semi Pilot, which is the agency I'm I'm a partner at.
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  And she knew I was a, you know, she knew my background, she knew I was a,
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  a good writer and that I enjoyed sort of like long, long form short form.
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  So she brought me in on like a one off project sort of almost as like
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  a favor to me but also a favor to them because they were in a pickle
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  So I came on for that project.
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  I wrote sort of this, this book for them, uh,
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  was here probably working like 20 hours a week.
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  This is like 20 16, 20 15.
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  Uh, and then I like to say I sort of like
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  Kim Gibblered my way into the industry.
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  So the project ended sometimes like literally the,
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  the founder, so the other owner of the company, Chris.
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  A couple years ago asked this too.
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  He was like, how did you get here?
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  And I was like, yeah, my freelance gig ended.
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  And I sort of like the next day just appeared
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  and was just on my computer doing my own stuff.
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  And, you know, someone was like, whatcha doing here?
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  And I was like, I'm just in case something comes in.
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  Uh, and then something came in and then something came in again.
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  And, you know, all of a sudden I, I sort of became our de facto.
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  Accidental writer and was hired full-time.
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  Wow.
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  So you just kind of hung around the office
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  until they started giving you more work?
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  Basically,
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  I hung around and then on my early projects, I truly,
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  you know, like I said, like I, I had been absorbing
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  creative and content, and I living in the fashion world.
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  Less so the gender studies, but that comes into play
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  a little bit more with how I think about strategy.
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  But in my early days, like I remember being in a meeting for one of
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  our shoe brands, this is literally month two and it was a brainstorming
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  meeting and I was, I was quick to speak up 'cause I was like, I want.
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  Be remembered here, right?
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  Like, you have to be valued to be hired.
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  Um, so I was, I was at the same time when I was
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  throwing out ideas, people were mentioning a deck.
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  I had no idea what a deck was.
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  So I literally am like in a corner googling what is a deck?
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  And getting, you know, images of a patio.
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  And now, you know, 10, 11 years later, I literally,
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  I tell my partner, I, I'll wake up and I'm in a deck.
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  You know, it's the last project I was working on the night before.
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  All I see when I dream now is just slides.
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  So.
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  The, the natural evolution becoming a creative
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Those, those decks.
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  Um, I've had to do a lot for startups in tech, in the tech world stuff, and
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  it's, uh, it's a lot of fun, um, having to create those, uh, all the time.
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  Yeah.
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  That's just because I, I, you know, do the strategy research,
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  writing, so that's just, that's the world we live in.
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  Absolutely.
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  So to to, to take it back just a little bit, you
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  mentioned you started in, in women's studies.
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  I'm, I'm curious what drew you to that?
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  To start with
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  A mix of things.
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  I, when I, you know, started freshman year in college, I think I
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  was, I was, I went to liberal arts school, so like classically I
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  changed my major like 33 times in a week without telling anyone.
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  You just sort of like decide at in the cafeteria
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  and I took an elective An important note here.
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  Also, I have six sisters, so I'm the only, I'm the only boy and I'm,
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  you know, more progressive and sort of was like finding myself at at
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  at, at college and I took an elective and I really, really enjoyed it.
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  And I sort of took another class that was like, you know, cross-referenced.
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  I checked off that elective, but it was also a women's
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  studies class and within a year I was all sudden just on
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  my way to just taking that as a major I already had my
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  Uh, public policy.
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  I was already like, sort of in line for that and then I, I realized
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  I could double major in it and then I just really, really grew
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  interested in the people I was meeting, the way that it was like
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  changing how I think like radically to, to that point on strategy.
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  I think that that's where it is really, really
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  helpful is gender studies is often about
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  Not locking something into a box, right?
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  Like we talk in gender a lot about objectivity versus subjectivity
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  and social constructs and all of these things that like, you
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  know, when you think about one of our footwear brands might not
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  make a lot of sense, but as you're actually like formulating and
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  structuring a project and the argument you're trying to make.
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  It's a lot of similar ideas because it's like a
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  lot of two things can be true at the same time.
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  And we need to draw colu, you know, you
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  have to draw a conclusion in gender studies.
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  When I'm writing a page paper, you have to arrive at
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  something, but that doesn't mean that my um, classmate.
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  Who drew a different conclusion.
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  It doesn't mean that that was wrong either.
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  It's just all about like sort of getting pointy, putting a
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  lens on it, putting pieces together, and then arriving at
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  something that feels sort of substantial and digestible.
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  And then who knows?
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  Like, you know, as with brands, a month later.
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  So social constructs change.
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  Our, our culture is changing minute by, well, by the time we're off this
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  podcast, I'm sure we'll learn something new, um, when we open up our phones.
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  And so then it's all about going back to it and, and updating it
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  and, and just really sort of like keeping your perspective alive
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  and just that ability to, to change and adapt and evolve and not
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  Think so.
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  Black or white.
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  Yeah.
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  I, I, that makes a lot of sense because when you're dealing with
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  brands, especially in the identities, the people behind brands, I've
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  talked to a lot of people about that, of how, um, you know, people
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  really, they're looking for a brand to say, this is my identity.
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  This is who I am, this is what I am.
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  And I mean, even, even today when I was looking over the website and the clients
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  you worked with, I noticed like Patagonia and Chaco are on there and some place.
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  I'm really finding my identity right now is in.
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  Might laugh at this, but fly fishing, it's been a lot of fun to learn.
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  It's been a lot of fun to get into and um, you know, Patagonia is
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  a brand that I really love and respect and that's where I'm finding
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  identity is in that style of clothing, equipment, all that stuff.
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  Even Chaco to some somewhat the same degree.
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  So I can see why having an understanding for that fluidity of that change.
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  Matters.
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  Um, in a lot of ways.
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  Yeah, absolutely.
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  I think Pat, I mean, Patagonia's, Patagonia, so it's always, we've
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  worked on a lot of, I've been able to work on a lot of really great
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  projects with them here, um, from some smaller, sort of more political
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  campaigns back in like 20 15, 20 16, and was also able to work on them
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  developing like PAW Patagonia action works we sort of like led that.
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  It's funny when we bring it up in, in client meetings
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  though, almost to your point of like knowing who you are.
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  Uh, especially on like pitches.
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  We'll, you know, we'll mention I work with
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  Patagonia and a lot of people are self-aware.
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  A lot of marketers are self-aware enough to be like, we
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  love it, but like it's very hard to be Patagonia, right?
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  Like to have that band, uh, brand.
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  Foundation and be so, um, committed because not every brand can do that.
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  But I think Chaco is a good example of that, that pivoting and the
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  work that I've been able to do with them because when we inherited
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  that brand initially, they already had, you know, the fly fishers
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  and the rafters and this really core audience of outdoorsy people
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  and granola people and like fifteen year old camp counselors
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  And when they, when they came to us, the brief then was
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  really like, we need, you know, we're, we're doing well,
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  people love us, but we have to open up to new audiences.
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  And so we were, we came in to evolve.
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  So like, not to, not to change, but just be like, okay, there's
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  other ways we can think about like what this product can mean and
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  what this brand can mean for like a whole new set of consumers.
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  And so we opened them up to lifestyle, but we didn't lose that thread to the you
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  know, rafters and the fly fishers those outdoor core I think when you do that
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  When you lose the thread, then I think you lose sort of like all
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  connection to who you are and then, then you're not just having
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  a rebrand every couple years or you know, evolving a campaign.
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  All of a sudden that's when those brands have
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  those aha moments of like, oh, we really ed up.
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  Who are we?
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  Yeah, for sure.
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  And then they've gotta go and they do the apologies and.
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  Have, you know, have all the, yeah, I'm sorry, tours and, oh, we're
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  trying to get back to where we were in our roots and yada yada.
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  So
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  we were just joking.
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  Um, last week, my team and I about the, do you remember
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  like the Dominoes apology that they did a couple years ago?
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  Domino's Pizza they did like, and it, this is like, I don't even remember,
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  not not recent years and years, but they had changed their recipe.
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  This is like sort of just a funny story, but they, their sort of like stunt
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  that they did was like this big apology that like, we know we, we screwed up.
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  Um.
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  You know, we, we've updated our, our pizza recipe and it completely worked.
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  Domino's is doing very well, so sometimes, sometimes those
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  apologies if you turn it into a stunt uh, and get some good press.
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  It works in your favor.
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  Yeah.
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  What, what is it they always say there's no such thing as bad press.
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  Yeah, exactly.
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  I think there's, there's some, yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I agree.
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  But, but it definitely, definitely is all a matter of how
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  you, how you approach that and how you handle that in the end.
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  Yes, absolutely.
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  I think that like the other thing about, when I think about
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  gender studies and sort of like taking a look back on how I've
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  arrived where I am right now, I think another overlap to like
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  brand strategy is, and brand strategy, but also just like as a
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  strategist, a lot of times people are like, what does a strategist do?
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  And it's different at every agency, every type of creative agency.
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  Uh, but a lot of it for me is like not just laying the foundation,
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  but it's also like you really are on multiple teams so you
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  like you do have a foot in account you're working extremely
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  close closely with designers and video producers and editors.
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  I have the, the writers are on my team in terms of how we run our
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  structure, so extremely closely with them and, and guiding there.
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  But, um, I think that ability to sort of like pivot, like we talked about,
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  but the context switching, the connecting dots, the, like, the ability to
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  like zoom in and zoom out and not get so narrowed in on one specific detail
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  is a big part of brand strategy for me because it's that ability to like
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  Take a step back, take a breath and sort of
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  say, okay, what are we actually doing here?
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  And do we actually need to accomplish?
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  Rebrand.
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  Or a, you know, a marketing campaign or a spot, regardless of the ask.
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  I think sometimes we go through those moments of like, we started with three
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  directions, then we got, they chose one, and then we went there and then, you
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  know, and I've been a part of this as well where I've let this happen, right?
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  And then the client made an edit.
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  And then we made an edit and then you're like, wait, how did we get here?
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  And how does this once again connect back to
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  our brand DNA or what we set out to do here?
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  And so that balance of sort of creative and practical thinking,
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  I think is a big part of, of how I think about strategy.
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  Yeah, and I like what you said about zoom in and zoom out too.
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  'cause I feel like when it comes to strategy for
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  anything, like you need to be able to take it from.
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  Um, the highest level of like, this is our broad idea for what we're doing.
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  And be able to communicate that all the way down to
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  the most tactical decision you make in the campaign.
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  Um, because you know, it's not just you working on it.
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  You've got writers, you've got all these people up and down the chain, and
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  if you're able to explain it properly, then they understand, well, this
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  supports this, which supports this, and that's the strategy we're going for.
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  Um, and I think that's evidence of a clear campaign to be able to.
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  Manage it like that.
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  Let's talk a little bit about your, your, um, your company.
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  Some, well I guess not your company, but the company you're a partner in.
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  Um, some odd pilot.
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  Tell me.
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  What, what is some odd pilot?
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  That's such an interesting name.
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  Yes.
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  Yeah, so, um, we are based in Chicago.
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  We're in the Wicker Park neighborhood.
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  Um, I'm sitting there right now, um, and we were founded in 1999, so we
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  just last year celebrated our 25th anniversary, which was really fun.
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  Uh, founded, I mentioned earlier, but, uh, Chris is our founder and we.
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  Fashion.
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  I think it maybe makes, it makes sense how I got into this business
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  because Chris, similarly, um, you know, he started this as a record
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  label and began working on, you know, various projects with, he's very,
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  very, uh, immersed in music and the indie music scene within Chicago.
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  Photo and so.
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  Um, you know, hired his first person and somehow Pilot as
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  a name actually comes from a lyric in a, or the name of a
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  song that him and his band wrote when he was 13, I think.
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  13 or 14.
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  So we, we have the lyrics like printed out downstairs on, on a wall.
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  Um, the, the original sort of like hand scratch and,
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  yeah, since, since, sorry, began sort of slowly grow.
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  Pitchfork back when it was based in Chicago,
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  before it was Conde Nast and all of that.
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  Um, basically like shared the building or the block on the same block as him.
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  Um, and this was back when before they had a brand or a logo or
• 16:38
  I think every page of the website back then was like hard coded.
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  Um, I wanna say this is like 2003 ish.
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  And so he was talking to there.
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  Decided to do like their first brand identity, um, and logo and website.
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  And so sort of just like checked a couple boxes and just grew from there.
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  And then Annika, um, who I also mentioned, came on as sort of like a managing
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  director and helped really sort of like steer and grow, grow the business.
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  But right now, yeah, we're a.
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  I think another interesting part about about our agency model or why I
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  enjoy working here is I'm on the second floor of our office in Chicago,
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  but on our first floor is what we call, it's called Public Works.
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  Um, and that's sort of like our community arm.
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  So it's an art gallery, a retail store, a venue.
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  Um, and so we do shows throughout the year.
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  We do limited edition apparel and collabs.
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  We have different artists in, so we're open on Saturdays and Sundays.
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  So you sort of have this like upstairs, downstairs, you
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  know, a lot of the, a lot of the creative and the output
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  that happens downstairs as like a sandbox for creativity.
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  If you'll, is done by the same people working up here on
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  like very big brand, you know, structured, uh, projects.
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  That's, that's really neat because then that
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  gives them an outlet for their creative endeavors.
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  Whereas, you know, the work that they're
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  doing on a day in, day out basis may not be.
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  That outlet may not be that opportunity.
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  Definitely.
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  And I think it, it's, it's helpful in particular too,
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  in terms of, you know, one of our greatest assets I
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  think at Summit Pilot is like our connection to culture.
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  And so it's not about studying culture.
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  I think like as a strategist myself, like I'm less, um, qu on.
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  I taking the pulse on that culture and understanding like where
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  our brand lives now, who sort of like our target is, where the
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  trends are taking us and what's happening in this larger universe.
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  And so like being in the neighborhood that we're in, in the city
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  we're in, and then having this space that like culture is literally
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  flowing in and outta just feels like a really organic sort of
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  place to live and, and to be Working on my computer right above
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  that is really neat.
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  I'm, I'm just like, man, that sounds like the.
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  Yeah, I'd love to work there.
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  If I didn't already have my own company,
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  I'd be like, can I, can I come work here?
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  So you've come into some autopilot, you've, you've become a
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  partner there, um, over time, and that's, that's really great.
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  But what, um, what have been some of your favorite projects?
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  What have been some of your favorite things that
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  you've been able to do since you've been there?
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  Yeah.
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  Um, I'll, I have a couple in mind.
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  One that immediately comes to mind just because I'm in the
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  middle of it, um, or I'm in the middle of sort of year or two.
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  An extension is a campaign that we've been working on, a brand campaign
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  that we've been working on with a brand called Darn Tough, and they are
• 19:36
  a sock brand family owned, based in Vermont and just extremely beloved.
• 19:41
  So.
• 19:44
  We joke here, like when we win a piece of
• 19:45
  new biz, someone's either friend or parent.
• 19:49
  I mean, hopefully we're all very excited too, but there's
• 19:51
  always that like, oh my God, my dad's freaking out.
• 19:54
  You're working with like cat footwear or whatever.
• 19:56
  It's, and for this one with darn tough, we had a lot of, a
• 20:00
  lot of our team and parents we're excited because it's just a.
• 20:04
  Like I said, beloved Sock brand, but it's also, you know, they
• 20:08
  sell at REI, they sell at a lot of local independent stores.
• 20:10
  It's a big like hiking sock brand.
• 20:13
  Um, and they're extremely comfortable, comfortable
• 20:16
  and they also have a lifetime warranty.
• 20:18
  So there's just like all these great things that check a lot of boxes and a lot
• 20:20
  of boxes for like parents of adult children and something they can put in a.
• 20:33
  For their first ever brand campaign.
• 20:35
  So they've had just like this consistent, you know, they have a
• 20:39
  great marketing and brand team, but in terms of working with an
• 20:42
  outside agency, they've just had consistent growth over time.
• 20:46
  But they, similar to Chaco, we're starting to reach that sort of like,
• 20:50
  you know, we can stay on this path and that's great, but we have such
• 20:54
  great product, such great, really incredible internal company culture.
• 20:58
  Um.
• 21:00
  And just so much brand love that we feel like there's audiences
• 21:03
  sitting, like whether it's a town over or you know, they're in
• 21:06
  Vermont all the way over in California that just would love us
• 21:09
  project our product if we gave them a chance to learn who we are.
• 21:13
  And so, you know, from what I've just said, brand
• 21:15
  awareness, obviously a big part of that brief.
• 21:18
  And we developed a campaign for them that's called Darn It.
• 21:21
  So.
• 21:28
  It's amazing.
• 21:29
  Yeah.
• 21:29
  Um, and darn is, you know, within their brand name is already pun because it'd.
• 21:40
  We, the big sort of unlock there and, and something that I think
• 21:44
  is another really important part of my strategic practice is that
• 21:47
  like in person immersion or, you know, not can't always be in
• 21:51
  person, but in terms of really getting to know the stakeholders,
• 21:55
  you know, it's not just about like absorbing old brand books and.
• 22:00
  Sent like the consumer segmentation that a different
• 22:02
  agency did and piecing everything together.
• 22:04
  That's a big part of it.
• 22:06
  But usually like that, we like to say like hidden gems over here, right?
• 22:10
  Like we like to find a brand's hidden gem and usually
• 22:13
  that's not gonna come reading 500 pages of different decks.
• 22:17
  It really requires like those one-on-one meetings, those conversations with.
• 22:23
  Even the conversation with the employee that's been there for
• 22:25
  like three months and it's like, what drew, what drew you here?
• 22:28
  Why?
• 22:28
  Why did you apply for a job at this company?
• 22:30
  Um, and so.
• 22:37
  We got to walk around their mill.
• 22:38
  They make everything there, it's all, it's all American
• 22:40
  made and got to meet the founder, um, and hear about
• 22:43
  sort of his vision and how the company organically grew.
• 22:47
  And in doing all of that, you know, we knew about the warranty, but
• 22:50
  it's something that's just like, it's nice, you know, a warranty at
• 22:52
  that point is sort of just like a nice to have and warranties right now.
• 22:56
  Consumer goods are so confusing because usually they don't mean much.
• 23:00
  Right.
• 23:00
  There's so fine print and we, when we were at mill.
• 23:08
  And it was just incredible.
• 23:09
  Like the, we each got to open a, a bag of socks that had been returned to
• 23:14
  each of our teammates, and we're sitting and there's like dogs all over.
• 23:17
  It's just like the most like picturesque
• 23:19
  sort of little place that you'd imagine.
• 23:21
  You're like, oh my God, these businesses still exist.
• 23:23
  I can't believe that.
• 23:24
  And we open them up and in every single one is
• 23:27
  like a letter and it's, it's like I bore these.
• 23:30
  Through throughout my entire college experience,
• 23:34
  and they went with me to three different continents.
• 23:36
  And I'm so sad to give them up, but there's a hole
• 23:39
  in this one, or it's ripped here, or it burned here.
• 23:43
  Um, and I mean, just the most incredible stories of like wearing them, um.
• 23:49
  You know, in Afghanistan or like to their wedding and just, just crazy.
• 23:55
  So an incredible amount of brand love.
• 23:57
  And they get these wedding invitations, but within that, they also
• 24:00
  had in on the wall in the back some of their favorite letters and
• 24:05
  they had pinned these socks that were like the funniest stories.
• 24:08
  So it was like.
• 24:10
  One in particular that was like very disgusting.
• 24:12
  But the dog, it was like this, the sock may look okay, but my dog ate it
• 24:18
  and then it came out the other and they were like, I don't know if this fits
• 24:23
  your warranty guidelines, but I'd love, this is my favorite pair of socks.
• 24:28
  And because it's a one sock you have for life, they're
• 24:32
  you.
• 24:37
  And in finding and then covering those gems, we're like, okay, so
• 24:40
  one thing that's clear, we all felt so inspired being there and the,
• 24:44
  and the company culture, which is so important, I think like the
• 24:47
  output of a company, you know, the output of a co company culture.
• 24:50
  If you could successfully let the world know
• 24:52
  that through brand communications, job well done.
• 24:56
  And so they had, they checked that box, they checked
• 24:58
  this like insane rabid fan base and consumer love.
• 25:01
  And people that like aren't just, you know, the average
• 25:05
  return or warranty is like fill out, you know, print out
• 25:08
  the return label, send it in, and yet people are, have.
• 25:12
  Watercolor paintings they've done with these socks.
• 25:15
  And then lastly, as we sort of looked at like the landscape and
• 25:18
  the competitive landscape and the outdoor landscape, we were
• 25:21
  like, okay, everyone's warranties and return policies are crazy.
• 25:26
  So much fine print.
• 25:27
  They're all going away.
• 25:28
  And so we sort of like wrapped that up into like,
• 25:30
  what's the pointiest campaign we could do there?
• 25:31
  And it was, darn it, brand awareness.
• 25:35
  So let's get the name campaign.
• 25:40
  We consumer stories and consumer love and make seen.
• 25:45
  So we built it all around these little stories and
• 25:51
  scenario.
• 25:53
  Where people are, you know, where their socks are getting destroyed.
• 25:56
  But ultimately the most important unlock
• 25:58
  was we need to double down on the warranty.
• 26:00
  So the whole idea is like, life's tough,
• 26:01
  our socks are tougher guaranteed for life.
• 26:04
  So it's all pushing.
• 26:05
  It's like taking that emotional side of the
• 26:07
  strategy and pushing it entirely into like.
• 26:10
  Because you can't go all emotion.
• 26:12
  You still need to functional, like, why should I buy
• 26:14
  this product in terms of some ROI on the campaign?
• 26:17
  And so it's just been, it's been really successful and you know,
• 26:21
  it's not the biggest brand we've ever worked on, but it's one that
• 26:23
  I feel really proud of, of having like a tight, succinct insight.
• 26:28
  Having the creative just look and perform really, really well.
• 26:31
  And then now moving into year two, there's always the test with
• 26:34
  the client is like, this did so well working with you so well.
• 26:38
  We strategy, we're extending it into a.
• 26:43
  Yeah.
• 26:44
  And that's, and that's, I mean, that, that
• 26:46
  just speaks well to the work that you've done.
• 26:48
  I mean, definitely paying attention to the customer.
• 26:50
  I'm always big on, you know, getting as close as you can.
• 26:52
  I've, I've said in previous podcasts, but fingertip
• 26:55
  close and you were actually going out to their site.
• 26:58
  I. Feeling, you know, feeling things out for
• 27:00
  yourself, opening, physically, opening bags of socks.
• 27:02
  I mean, you don't, you don't get much closer than that.
• 27:05
  And you said you had the privilege to do that, but my thought
• 27:07
  when you said that was like, oh, did that, that stink?
• 27:10
  I hope.
• 27:10
  I hope they were clean at least when they got sent.
• 27:13
  I think we had glo, I think we had gloves on.
• 27:16
  They weren't clean, all of them, but I think we had gloves on.
• 27:20
  I also think a big.
• 27:20
  A big part of strategy.
• 27:22
  I mentioned this a little earlier, but is also like really being able to
• 27:26
  tap in and build that trust with stakeholders because not only is that
• 27:30
  where you uncover the hidden gems, but that's also where you're able to
• 27:33
  like get that buy-in every meeting, every little check-in, every formal.
• 27:38
  Presentation and those stakeholders could be like, you know,
• 27:41
  the marketing or brand team that hired you, but in the case
• 27:43
  of darn tough, it was also in being able to meet the founder.
• 27:46
  And then you're able to recognize, okay, what are some brand challenges here?
• 27:50
  It might be a f this, this founder and of this
• 27:53
  family owned company has never worked with an agency.
• 27:56
  So you have to imagine what, what does that feel like?
• 27:58
  There's gonna be a little bit of trust, mistrust, or going into it.
• 28:02
  And so build trust early on.
• 28:05
  I. Not only did it unlock some things that even he told us that then inspired
• 28:10
  the our creative work and have continued to inspire our work with them.
• 28:14
  But you also get that buy-in and that positivity and that's how you know that a
• 28:18
  team's actually gonna put money behind the campaign 'cause they believe in it.
• 28:22
  And when you don't have that, I think across the board.
• 28:24
  And the same goes for rebrands, right?
• 28:26
  Like when you don't
• 28:30
  all pieces.
• 28:33
  Put them back together, get that buy in from like all forms of leadership.
• 28:38
  It, it ends up being one of those rebrand that just, you know, doesn't
• 28:42
  come to life well, or like, you know, you work with them and a year or two
• 28:45
  later you look and the website's different and you're like, what happened?
• 28:49
  Uh,
• 28:50
  and it's because where'd our campaign go?
• 28:52
  Yeah, but it's 'cause a new CMO came in.
• 28:54
  Right?
• 28:54
  And, and there wasn't like enough of that buy-in across the board.
• 28:58
  The time wasn't at.
• 29:02
  Just that like, yes, you can't satisfy everyone, but if you like.
• 29:11
  And you continue to evolve and edit, zoom in and zoom out, you're
• 29:15
  gonna be able to get all the way from like executive top, whether
• 29:18
  that's a founder or CEO down to that like, you know, the, the
• 29:22
  writers and design team that you're building that brand book or those
• 29:24
  templates for, and when they all sort of trust it and believe in it
• 29:28
  and have energy for it, that's where you're gonna perform the best.
• 29:34
  Oh, for sure.
• 29:35
  And and it definitely sounds like, I mean, y'all are
• 29:37
  doing the right things there too, which is awesome.
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• 30:21
  And it's funny, funny too, we're talking about socks.
• 30:23
  I am literally sitting here with a hole in my sock.
• 30:26
  It's a running sock that I've had for a while, and
• 30:28
  I'm like, I, I should probably check these guys out.
• 30:30
  The, I mentioned, um, we're working on a new project
• 30:33
  with them, but it, it involves running socks.
• 30:37
  Very much so.
• 30:39
  So you should check them out.
• 30:41
  They make awesome running socks.
• 30:43
  Yeah.
• 30:44
  Yeah.
• 30:44
  And I'm, I'm, yeah, 'cause I'm gonna have to replace
• 30:46
  these and I was already like, oh, these were pricey when
• 30:48
  I got 'em, so, yeah, I know the, I know the emotion there.
• 30:52
  Um, so that's.
• 30:54
  That's, that's really neat.
• 30:55
  So you've, you've worked with Darn tough.
• 30:56
  I think you mentioned there was, we were talking about just
• 30:59
  some of the contrasts and clients you have too at some odd
• 31:02
  pilot and some of the challenges that come along with that.
• 31:05
  Um, one of the ones you mentioned was Lalapalooza, which based on
• 31:08
  the background now makes total sense while you're working with them.
• 31:11
  'cause at first I was like.
• 31:12
  How does an agency get Lollapalooza and then,
• 31:15
  well, obviously you were a label at one point.
• 31:17
  You're in the indie scene in Chicago that now makes total sense.
• 31:20
  So tell me more about that.
• 31:23
  Yeah, yeah.
• 31:23
  No, Lalapalooza was, was awesome to work for, especially as a Chicagoan.
• 31:29
  I remember taking, I grew up in the suburbs and taking the train
• 31:31
  in when I was like 14, you know, 15 and, and going down and before
• 31:36
  cell phones were as common and mother was fearful of, you know.
• 31:41
  50,000 crazy people.
• 31:43
  But um, yeah, no, we started, we, so we rebranded
• 31:47
  Lalapalooza two years ago, so for their 2023 festival and
• 31:52
  then, you know, that, that brand identity lives on today.
• 31:56
  And they just, they just sort of announced their lineup,
• 31:58
  which people have really, uh, a lot of excitement for.
• 32:01
  But working with them was really interesting.
• 32:05
  Involved multiple sort.
• 32:10
  Live Nation C3.
• 32:13
  A lot of layers there, a lot of buy-in.
• 32:15
  And this, the brief there was also interesting, and I think
• 32:18
  this is a really classic brief and it's hard to know, but
• 32:21
  it's like, you know, get Gen Z but don't lose our court.
• 32:25
  And it's like, well, that's what everyone wants, right?
• 32:27
  Um, or that's what, that's what, that's the goal
• 32:30
  of many of our projects, at least I would say.
• 32:32
  And so in working with them, we did that same level of immersion.
• 32:37
  Thankfully, with our roots like Chris and Annika and a lot of the
• 32:40
  team here knew the brand very, very well, but we were still able to
• 32:44
  talk to the right people, uncover those insights and really try to,
• 32:48
  I think not Then you have, that's like the zoom in moment, right?
• 32:50
  Like you're like, okay, what needs.
• 32:53
  Why isn't this working from a practical standpoint, whether that's
• 32:56
  like templates because they presume, you know, as you can imagine with
• 32:59
  a music festival, you're taking like a design and a verbal and visual
• 33:02
  system and extending it to literally 10,000 different touch points.
• 33:06
  I mean menus and from main stage to like food and beverage
• 33:10
  carts to wristbands and V wristbands and VIP packages.
• 33:14
  So right there, that's like a practical issue.
• 33:17
  But emotionally it was just that the brand had become, it
• 33:20
  had just sort of like lost its meaning the brand identity.
• 33:23
  And so that was like the zoom in.
• 33:25
  But then zooming out and looking at, okay, well these two
• 33:27
  core audiences, you've got like Gen Xers really as like
• 33:30
  the early, you know, this festivals in around for 30 years.
• 33:34
  That were going there back when it was very
• 33:36
  subversive and a little bit more political.
• 33:39
  And then you've got Gen Z right now who's very digitally native.
• 33:44
  And we found this like very unique overlap
• 33:46
  with this idea of like zines and zine culture.
• 33:49
  And so it connects to like our core fan base because it
• 33:52
  just represents this DIY aesthetic that does feel sort of.
• 33:57
  Innately anti-corporate, but then if done correctly in the way
• 34:00
  that we did it, it also really resonates like digitally because
• 34:06
  it has this sort of like, not like a glitch, but it's that
• 34:09
  layering, it's that like DIY aesthetic, it's something that like.
• 34:13
  As we, as you and I know, and people in our industry
• 34:16
  now, 13 year olds, are creating and layering content
• 34:20
  and collages, you know, within seconds on their phone.
• 34:22
  Things that used to require Photoshop and,
• 34:25
  and a whole lot more, uh, time and effort.
• 34:28
  And it sort of became that, that perfect.
• 34:31
  Um.
• 34:32
  Connection or overlap of those two.
• 34:35
  So going back to this, our nineties roots,
• 34:37
  but not making it feel nostalgic per se.
• 34:41
  It's more of like a wink there.
• 34:42
  And then something that now with the rebrand and with the
• 34:46
  launch is just very, very beautiful and it's makes people smile.
• 34:51
  Um, but it also feels creative and intentional.
• 34:55
  No, no, I was just gonna say that, I mean that's, um, it's a
• 34:57
  challenge to try and connect everybody, but I hadn't thought about.
• 35:01
  Um, zines really, really playing an impact on that.
• 35:04
  But yeah, I've noticed they're starting to make a bit of a comeback and that
• 35:08
  reaches all the way back into like the eighties and probably even earlier.
• 35:12
  So you're reaching, you're reaching those old OG
• 35:16
  Lollapalooza audiences with that kind of content, I'm sure.
• 35:19
  Right.
• 35:20
  And it's not even, and you know, it's not even the production of zines, it's
• 35:23
  just that the design system itself has that sort of like, pasted together
• 35:28
  and, and very like, you know, this wasn't done by a professional vibe to it.
• 35:32
  Um, we didn't wanna go and a lot of.
• 35:36
  Music festivals right now either go sort of like full
• 35:39
  chaos, um, which is fun, but it depends on the festival.
• 35:42
  And this is a really large festival, so there has to be some level of control.
• 35:46
  But otherwise they go, I think, a little too clean and crisp.
• 35:49
  And we also didn't want that, that didn't
• 35:50
  feel true to like the roots of the brand.
• 35:53
  Uh, so this was a nice happy medium there.
• 35:55
  Yeah.
• 35:56
  Yeah.
• 35:56
  If you go clean and crisp, I think you're gonna
• 35:58
  go for like the Gen X millennial crowd maybe.
• 36:02
  Right, right.
• 36:03
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:04
  Exactly.
• 36:05
  It's the balance again.
• 36:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:08
  And then you're, then you're like, well, what kind of bands are gonna be there?
• 36:10
  You know, the most bland artist you've ever heard of, and, okay, well,
• 36:15
  no, that's, that was another interesting part of the, the
• 36:18
  strategy on that one though too, because you know, every, you get.
• 36:28
  The better to a certain extent, but we also know, like at, at the end of
• 36:31
  the day, it's great to have everyone connecting with and buying your brand.
• 36:36
  Um, and so like really thinking through like segmentation
• 36:39
  and personas and psychographics is really great.
• 36:42
  But for Lalapalooza, for Music festival at that size, I
• 36:45
  think like our first year that we did it there were like
• 36:50
  attendee and spending a lot of money on this and.
• 36:56
  But the brief there is wide on consumers because yes, like
• 36:59
  I know we were talking of like, you know, gen Z up to Gen X,
• 37:02
  but in terms of the genres that also spans so wide, right?
• 37:07
  So this isn't like, it can't in inherently
• 37:09
  read as like punk rock or pop, um, or rap.
• 37:13
  It sort of has to, the brand has to be able to flex to that,
• 37:16
  but not flex so hard that it loses its own point of view.
• 37:20
  It becomes unrecognizable.
• 37:23
  Yeah, it's, it's a challenge when you get big festivals.
• 37:25
  We've got, um, down here in Tennessee, we've got Bon Rouge.
• 37:28
  You may be familiar.
• 37:29
  In fact, they're, they, the company that puts all
• 37:31
  that on is based out of Knoxville where I live.
• 37:34
  And, um, it's, yeah, it, we see, we see in here a lot of that conversation.
• 37:40
  Um.
• 37:41
  You know, just being local and stuff.
• 37:42
  So it's always interesting to me when you know, you're
• 37:45
  trying to put together a festival that people want to go to.
• 37:47
  And we have the big Bonnaroo Festival, but then we had the Big
• 37:50
  Airs Festival here in Knoxville too, which is like hyper indie.
• 37:54
  I don't know if you're familiar with that one or have heard of it, but.
• 37:58
  It's wild.
• 37:59
  Um, the artists and stuff that I've, I've been introduced to as a result of it.
• 38:03
  But you know, like, like if I'm looking for one of my favorite bands from
• 38:06
  way back, like Deer Hoof, I'm more likely to find them at those smaller
• 38:09
  festivals and things like that versus, um, I. You know, something like
• 38:13
  Lollapalooza, although they probably have played there at some point.
• 38:17
  Uh, yeah, they've got everyone.
• 38:18
  That's the, that's what makes it so hard.
• 38:20
  You, it's like the most indie of the indie are also still there.
• 38:23
  They're just in like a lot smaller font on the, on the, on the poster.
• 38:28
  Yeah.
• 38:28
  They're on that shrinking part of the poster.
• 38:30
  But that's, that's, that's, um, that's,
• 38:33
  that's quite the challenge to work with them.
• 38:34
  And then you mentioned you were also like
• 38:35
  working on another campaign in tandem with this.
• 38:38
  That was like some, I guess, challenge of context switching.
• 38:41
  I. So tell me, tell me about that.
• 38:43
  Definitely.
• 38:43
  That was actually another rebrand, so a brand building exercise.
• 38:47
  And so at the same time, same year that we were working on Lalapalooza, we
• 38:51
  actually rebranded, um, and I helped lead the rebrand of Kimberly Clark.
• 38:55
  So.
• 38:57
  Big, big, you know, 40,000 employees, very global company, 150 years of legacy.
• 39:04
  And so, yeah, LA Palooza has, you know, multi decades,
• 39:06
  but this was a whole different, whole different ball game.
• 39:10
  Um, but it was really interesting to be working on them at
• 39:12
  the same time, because I think there's some, there's, there's
• 39:15
  shared lessons, but also a really different brief and a really.
• 39:24
  When they came to us.
• 39:26
  I mean, because it's such a massive brand, it has so
• 39:30
  much legacy, but it's also like a parrot brand, right?
• 39:32
  So like we all know the logo, but ultimately it's like,
• 39:35
  we also know like it's the brands that sit below it.
• 39:38
  Like we're talking like Kleenex and Huggies and Tex and Scott and whatnot.
• 39:42
  So there's, so there's a lot happening
• 39:44
  there, but just as Kimberly itself has these.
• 39:51
  And they needed a brand refreshed.
• 39:53
  Basically, they like, you know, there was like sort of a
• 39:56
  talent deficit or they really wanted to like, uh, attract
• 39:58
  and retain younger, great talent to work for the company.
• 40:03
  And they also had that issue with like, cohesion, just
• 40:05
  like La Palooza, you know, some of its brand assets.
• 40:08
  They wanted to just like tighten up and create a system that was flexible.
• 40:14
  Even almost, it's like less, they, they don't have 10,000,
• 40:18
  uh, touchpoints in a park in Chicago, but they have 10 million
• 40:23
  touchpoint in, you know, every single country and continent.
• 40:28
  And, and, and ultimately what, what in working with them in.
• 40:34
  Working very closely with the stakeholders in that, in those zoom
• 40:37
  in moments, we began to realize like this was, you know, such a
• 40:42
  massive ship that this isn't something that you come in and sort
• 40:47
  of like make a complete, you know, 90 degree angle left or right.
• 40:50
  Like you can do a lot of work in updating a
• 40:53
  brand and brand building just with like more.
• 41:02
  Right now what?
• 41:03
  What's in favor with a lot of, and especially legacy brands, I think we're
• 41:06
  seeing this even more, is like this idea of like disruptive innovation.
• 41:11
  And we came in and really understanding the heart
• 41:14
  and the DNA of Kimberly Clark, which really is about.
• 41:17
  They're a paper goods consumer brand, but they do, you know,
• 41:20
  their brand platform is better Care for a better world.
• 41:22
  There's a lot of intentionality and they have a really great
• 41:25
  vision and they're making a lot of really great things happening.
• 41:28
  And so we came in with this idea of, you know, responsible innovation.
• 41:32
  So like.
• 41:33
  You know, we had a big slide that was like evolution, not
• 41:37
  revolution, and it was this idea of like, how can we like
• 41:39
  update the brand and some of our like central tenets, our visual
• 41:43
  system, we updated the logo, but like, you know, very nuanced.
• 41:48
  We created new, new typefaces that, you know, every
• 41:51
  single one of those decisions, as you can imagine.
• 41:55
  And required lot of buyin and a lot of pressure testing.
• 42:00
  But ultimately I think it was really interesting because with what came out,
• 42:06
  you know, at the end of the project was this like completely different looking.
• 42:10
  Crazy colorful, you know, musically driven brand identity and
• 42:15
  what came out of the Kimberly Clark work, which took just as much
• 42:18
  time, if not longer, is it, like I said, so much more nuanced.
• 42:22
  But I think that that also is a sign of not just
• 42:25
  good strategy, but like with our, our creative team.
• 42:28
  The ability to like have with straight and to understand
• 42:31
  that like very specific decisions and decision making can
• 42:36
  ultimately like steer your ship in the better direction.
• 42:38
  It just, like I said, doesn't need to be going so far left or right.
• 42:42
  And also just a good reminder, I think like, you know, I feel like
• 42:44
  Jaguar always comes up now, which is like the most obvious example.
• 42:49
  So I, I hate to bring up, but this idea of
• 42:51
  like when you're working with a legacy brand.
• 42:53
  Particularly one with, you know, like I said,
• 42:58
  a lot like agencies.
• 43:02
  Doing that disruptive side of, of, of branding and brand strategy
• 43:06
  where they're just, in my mind a legacy brands like Currency
• 43:10
  and Equity is in their legacy and, and being recognizable.
• 43:15
  Um, and so that's something I think you just need to protect.
• 43:18
  Um, and it doesn't mean that you need to like let it live
• 43:21
  in the past, but you need to protect that, that core.
• 43:25
  Yeah, I mean, JAG Jaguar is a great example.
• 43:29
  Of like, just going off the deep end and just, just because they
• 43:35
  felt like the trend was this, and they need to make a car for this.
• 43:38
  But everybody knows a jag, you know, for the
• 43:41
  style and the, and the car that they've built.
• 43:44
  I mean, they built beautiful cars to begin with and the new
• 43:46
  ones aren't, I mean, they're really different, but they're
• 43:49
  not, they're, they're not like the worst things in the world.
• 43:53
  Like they'll, they'll probably be accepted in
• 43:55
  time, but yeah, that rebranding can really.
• 43:57
  Um, really muck up your.
• 44:00
  You're, you're thinking, and I mean it would've been better had they said,
• 44:03
  this is our new product line, or this is an offshoot or a separate company.
• 44:07
  We're trying something new like
• 44:08
  limited edition.
• 44:09
  And then see how it, see how it sort of tests.
• 44:12
  Exactly.
• 44:13
  Maybe that's a, goes back to what you said
• 44:15
  earlier at the beginning of this though of, uh.
• 44:18
  Maybe, you know, bad press is what is it all bad, bad
• 44:21
  press Is good press or no such thing as bad press.
• 44:24
  I
• 44:24
  mean, when it comes to cars though, it's a little bit, it's a
• 44:26
  little bit harder 'cause there's, there's an affinity for like
• 44:29
  a certain style or look like, you know, if they were chasing
• 44:32
  the cyber truck, they were probably following the wrong path.
• 44:35
  Um, you know, and there's other connotations that
• 44:38
  come with chasing that style of look or that car.
• 44:41
  Um, even, even now,
• 44:44
  also a massive investment.
• 44:46
  Massive invest.
• 44:47
  Huge.
• 44:48
  We're not talking about socks anymore.
• 44:50
  Yeah.
• 44:50
  Yeah.
• 44:51
  You're you're talking about like a, a giant, if it's, if
• 44:54
  it was still around a giant episode of Top Gear where they
• 44:57
  would talk about how Jaguar failed and why they failed.
• 45:00
  I mean, they, they helped create some of the
• 45:03
  image that I think of when I think of Jaguar.
• 45:04
  So.
• 45:05
  Um, you know, that, that's, even that, but yeah.
• 45:08
  When it comes to like Kimberly, Kimberly Clark and the, the brand
• 45:11
  redesign, like, I, I totally understand what you're saying about
• 45:14
  the slow evolution 'cause you're talking about a trusted brand.
• 45:16
  I mean, I've got two young kids.
• 45:18
  We use a lot of Kimberly Clark products in our home probably without
• 45:21
  thinking about it, and I. That brand recognition really does matter still.
• 45:26
  You need to know what you're going to get.
• 45:28
  And if it looks too different, like in the example of
• 45:32
  Jaguar, like you're not gonna recognize that on the
• 45:35
  store shelves, and that's where it has even more value.
• 45:37
  So I can see, I can see why that matters.
• 45:40
  Um, I remember when I was at at t they did a
• 45:43
  rebrand and all they did was flatten the logo.
• 45:47
  They went, we have the 3D globe, now it's flat.
• 45:49
  And I'm like, okay.
• 45:51
  But so much thought goes into that.
• 45:53
  And I know it does, but like so much effort, so much thought
• 45:56
  goes into those little changes 'cause it all has an impact.
• 45:59
  Even changing the font affects the printers that you choose.
• 46:03
  And you know, if you make a brand color change, it might
• 46:05
  even change the ink that you just, all these little
• 46:08
  things you don't think about on a day-to-day basis, but.
• 46:11
  Exactly.
• 46:11
  I think those are both, at t's another good example of like with
• 46:15
  those more nuanced, the slow evolution, you have to sort of go that
• 46:20
  route often because there's like a trickle down effect that's gonna
• 46:24
  happen that yes, you can do like consumer testing and focus groups
• 46:27
  and all of this to sort of see how is this gonna perform, but for.
• 46:34
  You really don't know, like what that means when
• 46:35
  someone's gonna resign their, you know, their phone.
• 46:39
  And if they had slightly sort of.
• 46:44
  In the back of their heads, that's where that brand building is happening.
• 46:47
  Where like, for some, in some capacity, even if you've lost like 2% of that
• 46:51
  person's trust, that could mean an entire phone plan or for Kimberly Clark,
• 46:56
  that could mean like a, okay, yeah, we've been buying these, you know, uh,
• 47:00
  more trusted brands, main, uh, mainstream brands like a Hugs for example,
• 47:06
  but like a slight change there and a slight change there itself and all.
• 47:14
  Uh, this belief, oh, I think they've lost some quality.
• 47:17
  Maybe I'll, maybe we'll try out the disruptor brand
• 47:21
  or even the generic brand or whatever it might be.
• 47:23
  So,
• 47:24
  and on the other side of that too, you've got the, the historical side where
• 47:27
  if you don't continue to update your brand, you do start to look dated.
• 47:31
  And it looks like, oh, well, you know what used to be
• 47:34
  your favorite logo might still be your favorite logo.
• 47:36
  Like, if I look out my window here to my right.
• 47:39
  I've got an old Coke logo, like the old, like somebody painted
• 47:42
  on the side of an old building coke, um, the Coca-Cola sign.
• 47:46
  And yeah, it's beautiful.
• 47:47
  I love looking at it and it's a, it's a cool shot of downtown, but, um, but
• 47:52
  by the same standpoint, you wouldn't expect that logo to still look the same.
• 47:56
  And if you look like you've gotta update for the times too.
• 47:59
  So that's another piece of it I think that,
• 48:01
  um, you don't think about until that brand.
• 48:05
  Evolution happens, if that makes sense.
• 48:07
  Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 48:09
  Yeah.
• 48:09
  I think you, you can't run the risk of like being a dinosaur.
• 48:12
  You just need to go about it in a smart, in a strategic way.
• 48:17
  Absolutely.
• 48:17
  Well, Patrick, this has been fantastic, um, chatting with you today.
• 48:23
  I always like to just wrap up with a couple of questions, um,
• 48:27
  before, before we go, and we'd just love to run those by you now.
• 48:30
  Um, so.
• 48:32
  First one is just, you know, what, what
• 48:34
  is top of mind in your industry right now?
• 48:36
  Is there anything for you that, as you look at, like brands
• 48:39
  or branding over the coming year, that you think like, oh, I
• 48:41
  gotta really keep my ear to the ground or keep my eye on this?
• 48:47
  Hmm.
• 48:47
  Um, I mean, in terms of just like trends that, that I know like.
• 48:53
  I, we've been enjoying in terms of like how
• 48:55
  we're idea and concepting for some of our brands.
• 48:58
  I love where sort of the beauty, fashion, lifestyle world is going with
• 49:03
  this mixture of like quiet luxury and then chaos sort of colliding.
• 49:07
  And you're seeing it in like.
• 49:08
  Mainstream brands, you're seeing it in editorial, you're seeing it in
• 49:12
  social content, but this like ability to still have like a refined held
• 49:17
  together brand, but starting to introduce bits of weirdness and chaos.
• 49:21
  And I think that that just is like a natural, you know, it's
• 49:24
  where we're at in terms of TikTok and Instagram and social and
• 49:28
  this ability for people to put their own stamp on something.
• 49:31
  So like you seeing.
• 49:36
  Being added into like a major campaign or you're seeing this likeness
• 49:41
  with social feeds that I think I find it interesting because it's such a
• 49:46
  delicate balance, a brand that comes to mind that like maybe isn't the.
• 49:51
  A good example of this ability to have that balance is always like Essence, I
• 49:54
  don't know if you're familiar with them, they're like a, it's a luxury e-com
• 49:58
  site, but they're, they're, they do an amazing job and, um, they're very well
• 50:02
  loved by a lot of people, but they, they have this like incredible ability to.
• 50:07
  Balance this like really refined editorial content with this
• 50:11
  really successful, I mean, it's literally an e-comm site.
• 50:14
  And then they also are just so tapped into culture.
• 50:18
  So this ability to be like subversive and just
• 50:22
  like it doesn't feel like they're following trends.
• 50:23
  It feels like, oh, I wanna follow them.
• 50:26
  Because I wanna see where they're going next.
• 50:28
  Uh, that was a long-winded answer, but let's just say like, uh,
• 50:33
  having a sense of humor and an ability to, uh, striking that balance
• 50:37
  of protecting your brand, but taking some risks when it comes to,
• 50:42
  to content in particular, their, their Instagram feed is just, um.
• 50:46
  Really great.
• 50:47
  Hmm.
• 50:48
  And is this essence, is it a, is it a, what kind of company is it again?
• 50:52
  It's, um, e-com.
• 50:53
  So like the, like apparel, accessories, furniture.
• 50:58
  It's, it's s it's S-S-E-N-S-E.
• 51:01
  Oh, okay.
• 51:01
  'cause I was, I was just googling it real quick.
• 51:04
  Trying to be quiet.
• 51:05
  No, no, no.
• 51:06
  Yeah.
• 51:06
  Yeah, take a peek at their Instagram after it's, they just do a nice job of,
• 51:10
  um, 'cause I think, you know, uh, when we get, when you get a campaign brief
• 51:15
  or, or re brief, you know, there's always like a bullet that's like increase
• 51:18
  social following and it's, that's that, you know, that's something that.
• 51:24
  Is a no brainer in terms of like, of course we all want that.
• 51:27
  How do we get on people's phones and, and something that they're not
• 51:31
  intentionally shopping, but we start to become a, a part of their lives.
• 51:34
  And I think you can swing, some brands swing so hard towards the product.
• 51:41
  That unless you're a diehard fan, you're
• 51:44
  probably not going to follow their social feed.
• 51:46
  You'll maybe go check out their website or this or that.
• 51:49
  Um, and then you can swing hard the other way into like, oh, we don't wanna, you
• 51:52
  know, we wanna be a lifestyle brand and let our products hit in the background.
• 51:56
  But then you ultimately literally lose the, you know, you
• 51:58
  lose what you're selling and how you're keeping the lights on.
• 52:00
  And I.
• 52:06
  They feel like something I wanna interact with.
• 52:09
  And then in the background, or, you know, in the setting of each of
• 52:12
  those things, the memes, the, you know, they bring in real Housewives.
• 52:16
  Um, they just have great editorial piece
• 52:19
  with one of my favorites, uh, Lisa Barlow.
• 52:21
  But the product is still a part of it.
• 52:24
  So yeah, they're great.
• 52:26
  A great company to check out.
• 52:28
  Yeah, I, I definitely will.
• 52:29
  That's, that's fascinating.
• 52:30
  Um.
• 52:31
  Yeah, I like that.
• 52:33
  I like that what you said about, um, what was it, quiet, luxury?
• 52:37
  Is that the, that's not the term.
• 52:39
  What is it?
• 52:40
  Yeah, sort of just, yeah, no, yeah.
• 52:41
  Quiet.
• 52:42
  Sort of like quiet luxury and then mixed with chaos.
• 52:45
  I was sort of saying, I don't know if that's, if I thought about
• 52:47
  it longer, I would call it something differently, but, um, yeah,
• 52:51
  no, I, I see what you're saying.
• 52:52
  It, especially from just looking@essence.com and looking at
• 52:56
  the website, at least as I'm seeing it now, it, it seems like.
• 52:59
  Very nice, very, very well done content, uh, very well done
• 53:04
  photography, but it has like this artistic style to it.
• 53:08
  It feels like something I'd seen in Art magazine, basically.
• 53:11
  Easiest way I can think to describe it.
• 53:13
  Exactly.
• 53:14
  Yeah.
• 53:15
  As a, as a photographer, I'm, I'm always
• 53:18
  admirable, a admirable admiring that kinda work, so
• 53:23
  Yeah.
• 53:24
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:24
  Absolutely.
• 53:26
  Yeah.
• 53:26
  That's awesome.
• 53:27
  Um, well that's, yeah, that's, that's definitely interesting.
• 53:29
  So, and then of course the last question I always like to
• 53:32
  ask is, you know, what is a brand that you really admire
• 53:35
  right now or really, really are crushing on right now?
• 53:39
  I would've, I should have said, I think I answered it
• 53:42
  when I naturally got to essence, let's say essence.
• 53:46
  Okay.
• 53:46
  Essence.
• 53:46
  It is.
• 53:47
  Essence.
• 53:48
  It is.
• 53:49
  Well, that's, that is awesome.
• 53:50
  And Patrick, thank you.
• 53:51
  Thank you for joining me today.
• 53:53
  No, thank you.
• 53:54
  I'm honored.
• 53:55
  Yeah, this has been really great.
• 53:57
  Yeah.
• 53:58
  So, um, where can people find you, connect with you if you want 'em to
• 54:01
  connect, and then where can people, um, connect with some odd pilot?
• 54:06
  Yeah.
• 54:06
  Um, so I know some odd pilot is hard to imagine
• 54:10
  how to Well, so it's S-O-M-E-O-D-D-P-I-L ot.com.
• 54:14
  That's our website.
• 54:15
  Check us out.
• 54:16
  Um, an Instagram, same handle.
• 54:18
  And um, yeah, I would say find me, find me through there.
• 54:23
  Excellent.
• 54:24
  Alright, well Patrick, thank you for coming on.
• 54:27
  Thank you so much, or on LinkedIn as well, Patrick Kelly Collins.
• 54:31
  Why not?
• 54:32
  Absolutely.
• 54:33
  We'll make sure you're, you're added on there.
• 54:34
  Well, Patrick, thank you so much.
• 54:37
  Thank you, Chris.
• 54:37
  Enjoy the rest of your day.
• 54:40
  Thanks for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.
• 54:42
  Don't forget to like and subscribe on your player of choice.
• 54:45
  You can also keep up with the podcast on we built this brand.com.
• 54:49
  If you like this episode, please give the podcast a five star review and make
• 54:53
  sure to tell all your friends about it so we can continue to build this brand.