Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / The Growth Mindset Manager: Dan Saas's Evolution from Sales Star to Operations Leader

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The Growth Mindset Manager: Dan Saas's Evolution from Sales Star to Operations Leader · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and
0:17
today's guest is Mr. Dan Sauce, managing partner at Vaco.
0:22
Founded in 2002, they are a high growth global professional
0:26
services firm providing talent solutions and technology,
0:30
finance and more across 50 plus markets.
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They partner with over 15,000 clients to deliver specialized
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services such as accounting, HR and marketing support.
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Known for their innovative approach, Beco was recently
0:46
listed among America's Best Executive Recruiting firms by
0:50
Forbes. Now, Dan has been with Beiko for
0:53
several years, serving in roles like partner, senior director
0:57
and Director of Client Services. He currently guides the
1:01
strategic direction of Beiko's Columbus office that's in Ohio,
1:05
while also serving as a board member for Small Biz Cares, a
1:08
nonprofit that assists local businesses with community
1:12
outreach. Dan's breadth of experience in
1:15
staffing and his commitment to helping others make him a true
1:18
leader to watch. His passion for fostering
1:21
professional growth and empowering teams aligns with
1:25
Vaco's mission to connect talented individuals with
1:28
meaningful opportunities worldwide.
1:31
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2:02
All right, back to our guest today, the managing partner of
2:05
Bayko, Dan Sauce. I appreciate you making the time
2:08
to share your yeah. Glad to be glad to join you.
2:12
So Dan, let's go back before kind of work history and you
2:17
started as a sport management major at OU Ohio University in
2:23
Athens, OH. How did the skills or or mindset
2:26
from that background later influence your leadership style
2:30
in a professional services environment like Baker?
2:32
Yeah, in the spirit of, of, of honesty and vulnerability, I, I
2:37
wouldn't recommend my college trajectory to, to to many.
2:42
The only thing I I knew coming out of, of school is that I
2:45
didn't want to use the degree I had.
2:47
You know, the opportunities coming out of OU were, you know,
2:50
the great sports management program.
2:52
It was essentially a, a, a business degree with a sports
2:56
focus. A lot of the, the entry level
3:01
opportunities out of school were facilities, ticketing, event
3:08
management, none of which I really had a passion for.
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So, you know, I, I, I wish going back into school, I had more of
3:19
a, hey, this is what I want to be when I grow up.
3:21
I learned it later in life through some life experiences
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and and and you know, so probably a little bit late on
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the on the finding my path or, or or passion front.
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But you know, obviously a great program, great school build, a
3:38
great foundation for, you know, a lot of what I what I use today
3:43
and you know, I. So you got you were there more
3:47
for the business degree and this was kind of a a subset within
3:51
that business degree and it you went out into the world and you
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know, you were going to kind of find your way and, you know,
3:56
eventually figure out what your passion was.
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So what is it that kind of first drew you into the staffing?
4:02
Pure desperation to, to share a little bit about my story, you
4:07
know, and this kind of dovetails or, or parlays back to, to the,
4:10
to the school front. Came out of, of college and, and
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really looking to find my path. You know, I got into financial
4:17
services, you know, insurance investments and, and my series,
4:21
series 7 and, and life and health licenses.
4:24
But you know, that's a as as many, you know, a very tough
4:27
industry to, to break into without a, an established
4:30
network or, or family member or some legacy, you know, legacy
4:35
influence there. So, you know, that was a, you
4:38
know, here's your desk, have at it right.
4:41
And, and I wouldn't have bought insurance from me.
4:44
I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have invested with, with, with
4:47
myself. And, you know, I always kind of
4:49
fought that, you know, imposter syndrome a little bit.
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But Needless to say that that that it wasn't a much of by my
4:58
own doing, but wasn't the the long term fit for me.
5:02
And you know, you throw in a couple of kids out of school
5:06
early and and all of a sudden, you know, that Commission only
5:10
job becomes tough to tough to swallow.
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So, you know, I made a a tradition transition out of of
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financial services actually into an accounts receivable role.
5:21
Have you on the business to consumer and business to
5:24
business collection side. And I remember it paid 1250 an
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hour. And, and I, I, I distinctly
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remember feeling and asking, you know, if, if I work these hours,
5:40
you're going to guarantee me that 1250, right?
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Because I hadn't been guaranteed any sort of income.
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And, and just the, the thought of being in an hourly position,
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as modest as it was, was, was so refreshing to have some, some,
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you know, consistency there with, with my paycheck and I'm.
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You'd, you'd come from a Commission only environment and
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yeah, 12:50 an hour, not a lot of money for somebody you know,
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might, might not have had college debt.
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You've got a young family coming.
6:08
But hey, it's something and you wanted to make sure I'm correct.
6:11
Him and I at least I like to joke that I I broke I reset the
6:16
the the company handbook on amount of hours overtime hours
6:20
you can work. So they had to they had to cut
6:23
me off there after a while. But you know, you, you, you, you
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go from, you know, coming out of school and really not having a,
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a path or passion to, you know, getting into a relationship at
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an early age, having kids at an early age.
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And all of a sudden your why becomes extremely clear.
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And so I, I would became very, very good at, at business to
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business collections and, and accounts receivable and, and
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really the ability to have those kind of professional persuasive
6:57
conversations helped and continues to help me to this
7:03
day. So I take a lot out of that
7:05
experience. You know, I, I.
7:11
Say more. Yeah.
7:12
Say more about that. Dan, I I'm curious, like, how
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did you, do you think you had a natural knack for that right out
7:17
of the gate? Did you get some training?
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Was it just school of Hard Knocks where you kept trying
7:22
different things 100 different ways and, you know, eventually?
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Figured, you know, I, I, I kind of had a knack for it being able
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to connect with strangers, You know, you're making calls and
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reaching out with stressful information, right And, and you
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have an agenda and, and it's very different many times than
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the person on the other end of the phone's agenda.
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So it's, it's where can you create that, you know, where you
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can sort of put yourself on the other end of the table next to
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the person instead of the, you know, being the adversary from
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a, from the organization. And, and that's something I
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always, you know, tried to, to lean into was, you know, showing
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empathy, showing understanding, making sure that, you know, I'm,
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I'm coming from a place of, of partnership that I think
8:09
resonated well. And so you were, you found you
8:16
had a knack for having these conversations, these difficult
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conversations, right? These people are in a hard
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position that you're showing empathy, you're showing, you
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know, support, kind of putting yourself in their shoes rather
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than, you know, kind of coming at from an attacking
8:30
perspective. Did you find that this helped
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you be more successful in collecting?
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Funds and. Were you commissioned?
8:38
No, I. Incentivize.
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My incentive was was to be the number one person, be the top
8:46
performer in my group and with the hopes of, you know, growing
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within the organization. And, you know, I made some some
8:55
steps along the way. But you know, it was 5 to say
9:00
three to four years in into into that opportunity.
9:03
When I mean, this was old school.
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I saw an ad on the on indeed and and applied and and, you know,
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didn't know what I was getting myself into.
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And, you know, when it, when it comes to staffing and recruiting
9:16
and really don't understand what the, the third party model was,
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but I knew that I had built myself into a, a hell of an
9:26
executor and somebody that had a high motor and a high drive and
9:30
a high desire and frankly need for success.
9:34
So, you know, that that desperation coupled with the
9:39
skills that I had learned, you know, from my previous
9:42
opportunity really helped me have a, a pretty St.
9:46
Steep trajectory and and in my infancy within staffing and
9:52
recruiting. Yeah.
9:55
It's interesting because what you were just saying, it
9:58
surprised me that you're not financially incentivized to
10:02
improve your collection rate, you know, at a company like
10:05
that. But I think it said a lot about
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your character that because I could see a lot of people just,
10:11
you know, kind of collecting the 12:50, kind of going through the
10:14
motions and, you know, making the calls and, you know,
10:17
checking a box. But for you it was like, no,
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like I, I, I want to be genuinely good at this.
10:23
I want to build my skill set. I want to prove my worth to the
10:25
company. I want to advance myself and
10:28
advance my career. And at some point, maybe you
10:31
kind of recognize that this wasn't where you wanted to be
10:34
forever. Maybe you kind of, you know,
10:36
reached the ceiling. And and so you decided, OK, I'm
10:39
going to respond to this ad the the in the staffing industry
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and, and so explain what the the third party model is that you
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weren't familiar with before. You know, the, the entire, you
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know, I, I idea of, you know, a client reaching out to a company
10:57
to help them find talent. You know, I was very myopic in
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my view that, you know, when somebody needs to hire somebody,
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they just go hire somebody that there was wasn't much more to
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that, you know, and then you sort of learn the challenges and
11:11
nuances to that and, and how, you know, a, a, a good partner
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in, in the third party world can offer a lot of value and, and a
11:19
flexible staffing option, you know, when, when interim and
11:24
temporary help was needed. So, you know, I kind of learned,
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learned as I go and learned as I went.
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Excuse me, but you know, certainly, certainly believe in
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in in the model and the value that that it offers.
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I started very on a very transactional, you know, I was
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placing admin assistants and, you know, accounting clerks and,
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and AP clerks and AR clerks. And I'm, you know, interviewing
11:50
these people and sort of Googling what they do on the
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side and, and learning as I, I go.
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And then I'm taking those folks to market.
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And, you know, like I said, I, I, I did it at a very high clip
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and I was able to have very strategic and conversations with
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people and bond with people, you know, whether it was in person
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or, or over the phone. So, you know, I was, I rose
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through the ranks fairly quickly and and into leadership.
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And so do you think to try to encapsulate maybe what is part
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of Dan's special sauce, no pun intended?
12:24
Is your last name it? Do you think it is sort of that
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ability to have empathy and put yourself in that other person's
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shoes? Is there more to it than that?
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Like if somebody's like, wow, you know, Dan, like it sounds
12:38
like what he's doing is pretty cool.
12:39
I'd like to do that. Like how how can I sort of
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develop or evolve those skills myself?
12:44
I mean, there's certainly a lot more to that.
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And, and, you know, I quickly realized and, and was I'm
12:54
humbled by the fact that, you know, I'll probably never be the
12:57
smartest person in the room. You know, it'd have to be a
12:59
pretty small room. I'm, but, you know, not being
13:04
too proud and being vulnerable enough to to admit that you
13:09
allowed me to surround myself with a very bright, very smart
13:13
people. You know, I had strengths.
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You know, I'm, I'm, I'm a coach, I'm a leader.
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I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm driven. I know how to motivate people.
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And I think that's just, you know, through my background of
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coming up through sports and, you know, volunteer coaching and
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things. So I, you know, I felt like I
13:27
had that piece sort of innately ingrained in, in me, But, you
13:34
know, I was rough around the edges with my industry knowledge
13:36
and, and, and, you know, professional knowledge.
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So, you know, my, I think my ability to, to, to, to be
13:44
vulnerable and ask, ask the stupid questions, even though
13:47
it, someone at my level at the time should probably have
13:51
already known that, you know, really helped me sort of round
13:55
out very fairly quickly. So, you know, it's part of, of,
13:59
you know, the ability to, to have empathy and, and you know,
14:02
there's some skill involved with, with strategic
14:04
conversations, but, but really it's, it's making sure that
14:08
you're open to feedback and guidance from people that have
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been doing this much longer than than than I have.
14:15
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I I think sometimes curiosity is
14:20
kind of undervalued. You know, being able to approach
14:23
this with not trying to demonstrate like what I know,
14:27
but being curious about what can I learn how, how can I grow in
14:32
this kind of a situation, in this environment.
14:35
So you, you had some stops in the staffing industry along the
14:40
way before you came to Vako. How did the opportunity there at
14:45
Vako present itself? How did you?
14:47
Yeah, I always had known of Vako.
14:52
They were a competitor when I was back at my my previous firm.
14:57
So you know, they were always in the in the periphery.
15:01
But an individual that I had worked with at that time had
15:05
transitioned to Vako and I was working at a, a non compete
15:11
after I had, I had left the organization for a, for a new
15:13
role and didn't know I was working at a non compete.
15:16
You know, I know plans of, you know, a, a pit stop per SE, but
15:21
he had been keeping track of me and, you know, 10 months in
15:24
said, Hey, you want to grab lunch and, and you know, the,
15:27
the rest is, is history. So it was actually a former
15:31
employee that that that had brought me on board with Teico.
15:36
What was it about Vako that attracted you?
15:39
Because probably had, I don't know, some level of comfort or
15:42
security where you were before taking a new job is a bit of a
15:46
risk, you know, a bit of an unknown.
15:47
What? What did you see there that was
15:50
attracted? To it was the autonomy that I
15:53
was given to build something the way I wanted to build it.
15:57
So when I came on board tennis years ago, Vako was, was a, you
16:06
know, $250 million organization and we've grown, you know, 5X,
16:13
you know, in, in that time. So at the time it was really,
16:20
you know, hey, what do you want your title to be?
16:23
What do you, what do you want your team structure to be?
16:26
Who do you want on it? And how do you plan on running
16:28
this thing? So I, you know, it was a good
16:31
progression and step up from being in a similar situation.
16:35
But everything, you know, the lines were very clear, You know,
16:39
decisions were, were, were made at at 2 levels up.
16:43
And and you know, you just had to adhere and March forward to
16:47
being in a position where they said create this, we expect it
16:50
to work, but, you know, put the pieces together anyway you see
16:54
fit. So that was exciting to me
16:57
coming in and, and you know, I, I, I stepped in to lead our
17:03
staffing group again, a very transactional apar temporary
17:09
accounting, finance and, and HR associates or contractors,
17:13
excuse me. And, and you know, at the time
17:16
we were, we had a very modest pool of, of, of clients and you
17:25
know, we grew that by, by 10X and, and you know, at one point
17:30
at 100 and 150, you know, folks working for us just within that
17:33
division. So it was exciting.
17:36
And then, you know, was tapped on the shoulder to, to pivot
17:41
over to our Consulting Group to, to run that run that team.
17:48
And, and that was a huge learning experience for me, you
17:50
know, not coming from a formal accounting and finance and, and
17:53
IT background, But, you know, I was, was able to get that group
18:00
humming. And then, you know, eventually
18:02
was was asked to, you know, have that oversight over all of all
18:05
of our lines of business and accounting, finance and IT And
18:09
that was, you know, a couple of years ago.
18:11
So I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna take a couple of steps back in
18:15
and then I, I want you to kind of explain the three different
18:17
areas that that Vacos serves. But before we do that, I want to
18:20
call attention to something because you guys have obviously
18:23
grown a lot in the 10 years that you've been there.
18:26
That's clear. But when you started there, a
18:28
$250 million business is still not a small business.
18:31
That's a, it's a pretty good size, you know, significant
18:34
business. And so it strikes me as unusual
18:37
that they were like, hey, Dan, like what do you want your title
18:40
to be like? How like you would expect that
18:42
if there's like, you know, 3 or 4 guys like having a beer
18:45
together, like, hey, let's start a business together.
18:47
Like what do you, what, what do you want to be chief of?
18:50
What do you want to, you know, you don't expect sort of like
18:52
picking your own title and having that degree of autonomy
18:56
in a business of that? Well, the, the answer was
18:58
because it was three to four guys on the back of a napkin
19:01
saying, Hey, we're going to build a business together.
19:04
So that was our, that was the beginning of vaco in a, in a
19:07
broom closet, you know, in, in, in Tennessee.
19:11
So we and, and still do have maintain a very entrepreneurial
19:16
spirit. You know, we and, and even back
19:22
at the time, yeah, the, the, the company was a decent size, but
19:26
you know, every office was different.
19:27
Every office leader was different.
19:29
There was some offices that leaned into a certain service
19:33
offering than than others. So it was the, the, the
19:37
organization grew by basically going into markets and saying,
19:40
you know what, you do this very well, we're going to plant a, a
19:43
VACO flag here. And, and you continue to do
19:46
this, whether it's a managed service offering or consulting
19:49
offering or, or, you know, a pure staffing offering.
19:53
So you know, VACO looked very different from from office to
19:56
office to office to office. And really it was like, we're
19:59
going to find top talent, we're going to get them in the right
20:03
seat and then we're going to let them do their thing.
20:04
Now eventually we got to a size and we are at a size where, you
20:07
know, it's difficult to scale. Yeah, exactly.
20:14
You know, so, so that's where we've really, I would say
20:18
matured as as, as an organization and, and put some
20:22
parameters to, you know, what are we known for, what's our
20:24
brand? But at the time it was very
20:26
loose and, and you know, this was, this was before the time
20:29
that, you know, everything was interconnected through, you
20:33
know, you know, globalized delivery.
20:36
And, and so, you know, it was very much, you know, we had our
20:40
local presence, we had our local brand and it, it looked kind of
20:44
similar, but not the same as as another office.
20:46
And, and, you know, to, to kind of progress to, to where we are
20:53
today. It was really when, when COVID
20:56
hit where, you know, I think the world realized that that, hey,
21:03
people can work remotely. The sun does come up the next
21:05
day. We took that opportunity to
21:11
really operationalize ourselves and take advantage of the fact
21:17
that, hey, just because, you know, we have a managed service
21:21
practice that sits out of San Francisco, why can't we offer
21:25
that in Ohio? Just because we have a
21:28
consultancy out of DC, Why does that just need to be ADC play
21:33
really so? Meaning you've got like a
21:36
consulting office there, but why can't those consultants provide
21:39
the service to clients all over the country?
21:41
So we, we really leaned into that point of, of creating, you
21:47
know, those three lanes of delivery being, you know,
21:50
managed services consulting and, and strategic talent
21:54
acquisition. And really it was the
21:55
culmination of, of things that had are always existed in the
21:58
BECO world, but it just sat geographically in a in a
22:03
different area. So we've since, you know,
22:07
enhanced and refined that massively into a very powerful
22:13
delivery engine and a very broad way that we can, we can help
22:19
clients and and clients and customers solve, solve business
22:24
challenges. So kind of walk me through those
22:29
three different areas. What do each of those things
22:31
mean? I think the first one you
22:32
mentioned was managed services. What is that?
22:34
Essentially that. And who?
22:36
Yeah. Essentially that's any business
22:37
function or operation that an organization wants to outsource.
22:42
So the the most simple example that I can provide is is near
22:45
shoring and offshoring. You know, a company might reach
22:48
out to us and say, you know, hey, we've got a team of of 10
22:52
people in, in, in AP right now. I'm looking for cost arbitrage.
22:57
I'm looking to eliminate the fact that I can't hire within
23:00
this group. It's not operating correctly.
23:03
We'll take that entire function for an organization, put it in,
23:08
in, in our near shore location and just provide that
23:11
deliverable back-to-back to the client on a monthly basis and
23:16
it's seamless with significant cost savings.
23:19
So, you know, that can be very transactional accounting and
23:22
finance that can be mid to high level IT and, and we've we've
23:30
found ourselves in in some massive projects with the likes
23:33
of of Google and TikTok and Netflix and OK.
23:39
Rather significant sized clients who who who are kind of the
23:42
ideal fits for the the managed services portion are are they
23:47
the really big companies? Surprisingly and I would say the
23:53
beauty of our model is in a scalability where you know we do
23:58
service the Fortune 1, you know the Fortune 10.
24:01
But where we've seen the biggest growth within managed services
24:07
has been in that we'll say 150 million to and, and lower, you
24:12
know, nonprofits, you know, small to mid size players where
24:19
you know, they either don't want to to continue to have something
24:23
sit on shore. They're looking to save money,
24:26
they're looking to become more efficient.
24:31
That's really been the biggest uptick in in our business has
24:34
been in that that small to mid size space.
24:38
OK, tell me about the kind of the second pillar, the
24:41
consulting. What?
24:42
What? What kind of consulting?
24:43
It's, it's accounting, finance and IT consulting and, and that
24:46
group is very broad in, in how they service clients.
24:49
A couple of main areas I would I'll provide is, is you know,
24:53
ERP implementation and support data, AI transaction advisory
25:04
are are a couple of the the key pillars.
25:06
But essentially our, our Consulting Group will come into
25:09
an organization that has an issue that they don't have a
25:12
road map for, they don't have internal expertise.
25:17
They need to rely on some pretty heavy hitters in in with solid
25:23
accounting finance pedigree and know how to to game out, execute
25:28
and and deliver back to that client a a finished project.
25:32
Whether that be assisting with, you know, and a new accounting
25:36
software or, you know, maybe an organization wants to go public
25:40
providing guidance on on what sort of reporting they need to
25:43
have in place or they want to go public to private or, you know,
25:46
they're purchasing an organization or being purchased.
25:52
So those are just a few areas that we support through our
25:54
consulting offering. So before we talk about the
25:58
third area, are your vaco employees or your, you know,
26:04
offshore near shore folks, are they generally confined to one
26:09
of these three pillars or do you see people your, your team kind
26:13
of move in between providing consulting services or managed?
26:17
From a delivery standpoint, we're specialized.
26:21
So, and that's very much intentional.
26:25
You know, we from a sales standpoint, I'm having
26:29
conversations with clients about all of these, these offerings
26:34
and how we can blend and, and, and put something together
26:37
that's truly customized for them.
26:40
But you know, I don't want my delivery team to be masters of
26:43
none. So, you know, we've, we've put a
26:47
lot of of really smart people into some, you know, some pretty
26:53
defined lanes from a delivery standpoint, which is which has
26:56
been a competitive advantage for us.
26:59
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. You know, as you were talking
27:01
about before when you guys were, you know, growing super fast, it
27:05
was like, hey, you're talented, go do your thing your way.
27:08
And yeah, once you get to a certain size, like, you know,
27:11
having Sops, having standard processes, having things siloed.
27:15
So it's like I, I can be the expert of this domain and I
27:19
don't have to worry about all this.
27:21
But from a sales perspective, obviously you need to be able to
27:24
talk about all those different functions because you don't know
27:27
what a client's going to need. You know, it's like they, they,
27:29
they could have needs that fall into the different buckets, but
27:32
from a delivery standpoint, it, it makes a lot of sense to have
27:35
them siloed. So tell me Dan, Dan, about the
27:39
the third one, the strategic talent acquisition and staffing.
27:43
So we provide interim the contract and indirect hire
27:48
support to over 10,000 clients as an as an enterprise.
27:55
So that can mean anything from hey, my receptionist went on
28:02
vacation for or you know, it's got to leave for the next month.
28:06
I need somebody to come in and, and man the front desk all the
28:09
way up to and including, you know, our, our CFO is, is has
28:14
resigned and we need, you know, a contract CFOCEOCOO senior
28:20
finance resources. So we've got, we've got our, our
28:23
teams specialized in, in again to, to, to focus on certain
28:31
areas. And, and, and so it's, you know,
28:35
contract staffing and we, we have a consulting offering where
28:38
we, we essentially loan staff individuals that we've brought
28:42
on full time. And then we've got a very
28:44
experienced direct direct hire group that is recruiting full
28:47
time for clients that you know would prefer a, a, a full time
28:51
hire versus you know, an, an interim or contract option.
28:57
And so the geographies that you guys cover, is it all 50 states,
29:02
is it? So we're global, we've got 40
29:05
offices across the the States, we're in Canada, we're in the
29:08
UK, we're in India, we're in the Philippines, Trinidad, we do a
29:14
lot of of our near shoring to to Trinidad and and so.
29:19
But in terms of the geographies that you've.
29:21
Yeah, from a, from our perspective here in in Ohio, we,
29:25
we service greater central Ohio area.
29:27
We will service Cleveland as well.
29:29
We've got an office in Cincinnati that services that
29:33
area. And I would say a little bit
29:34
into Kentucky, but in the states, we've got 40 offices
29:37
that service every, you know, every state.
29:40
And so your role now is you're head of the Columbus office,
29:45
manage all the services coming? That's correct.
29:49
And so the, the trajectory that you sort of described for us
29:53
before and sort of the the, you know, make up your own title
29:56
when you come in and then, you know, get tapped on the shoulder
30:00
to, you know, move into the Consulting Group and all that.
30:03
That was specifically within the Columbus room that you were
30:07
making those moves. Got it.
30:09
OK. And I'm seeing here, you know,
30:13
vehicle was recognized by Inc Magazine for its growth and
30:19
workplace culture. What what do you think sets the
30:22
culture apart from other services firms and especially
30:26
with you guys being so distributed with so many?
30:28
Different, I'd say from a culture perspective, we've been
30:31
able to maintain our entrepreneurial spirit as we've
30:35
grown. Now it's not what it was, but
30:40
you know, I've, I've been in other firms where just the lines
30:44
are so solid and getting outside of, of the prescribed box is so
30:50
difficult and it limits the sharing of good ideas.
30:54
It limits, you know, trying something new.
30:57
You know, we keep those lines intentionally blurred a little
31:00
bit where we want people to, to build something if it's, if
31:04
it's, you know, a good business decision and, and, and drives
31:09
value and, and in, you know, relates to, to, to our, our core
31:14
values that, hey, let's, you know, we, we, for instance, we
31:18
don't have a networking group in this space.
31:20
Well, why don't we build 1? You know, we don't have a
31:22
quarterly women's leadership group.
31:24
Well, let's build 1. And, you know, even, you know,
31:30
hey, I've got a new, new idea about a, a business service
31:32
offering. Let's, let's talk through it.
31:35
Let's give it a shot. And, and if it makes sense,
31:37
let's, let's go all out. So, so I think that's kept
31:41
people engaged and, and feeling like, you know, they're not just
31:45
a cog in the machine and that that good ideas and new ideas
31:49
and, and outside thought is, is certainly welcomed and
31:52
celebrated and acted upon. I'm kind of curious, you know,
32:01
since you've stepped into sort of this managing partner role a
32:04
couple years ago, is there a particular innovative or
32:09
out-of-the-box strategy that you and your team have introduced
32:14
that's really helped you guys kind of stand out in a
32:16
competitive space? When I came on board as the
32:21
managing partner, I, I quickly discovered, you know, there's no
32:24
real magic bullet to what I was doing.
32:29
You know, I wasn't going to come up with something that was
32:31
completely radical and game changing.
32:34
We had a, we had an issue with execution.
32:37
We're really good about talking about something we were going to
32:40
do. We're really bad at actually
32:42
doing it. So if there's one thing that I
32:48
knew I had to fix and was passionate about optimizing, it
32:52
was our ability to execute. I'm not an organized person by
32:56
nature. I'm not AI, don't have a project
32:58
manager mindset. So, you know, for me, it, it, it
33:02
did not come naturally. You know, I'm a former sales guy
33:07
that colored outside of the lines and was Wheeling and
33:10
dealing right. So becoming an operational
33:12
leader was, was certainly an area of growth for me.
33:16
But you know, I, I, I can proudly say that we've, we've
33:20
come leagues in our ability to take a good idea, do something
33:25
with it, see it through or punt, you know, midway through if it's
33:28
not the right move, but, you know, actually giving things
33:32
fair shots and fair shakes. And, and that's been, that's
33:35
been critical in, in our growth. I think from a service offerings
33:41
perspective, you know, our integrated ability to, to offer
33:46
back to that managed services consulting and, and town
33:49
acquisition blend has allowed us to, to have very honest and
33:55
consultative conversations with our clients where, you know, I
33:59
don't come in with an agenda. My agenda is to, well, certainly
34:03
to solve a problem for an organization, but it doesn't
34:05
have to look a certain way. And often times it doesn't.
34:09
Sometimes it's a, a little bit of, of, of staff augmentation
34:13
with, you know, some oversight from our Consulting Group.
34:15
And some of that work may sit on shore, near shore or, or
34:19
offshore. And it's all based upon what the
34:20
client challenges and what they're hoping to accomplish.
34:23
So, you know, I know a lot of my industry peers are coming at
34:27
this through, hey, do you need a body?
34:29
Do you need a body here? Do you need an extra body here?
34:31
And you know, if the market conditions last year were such
34:35
where a lot of times that answer was no and that conversation
34:38
could never go any further. So, you know, really leaning
34:42
into to, you know, an integrated blend of, of delivery mechanisms
34:45
was huge. It's interesting what you said
34:50
about when you came in. You guys were really good at
34:52
talking about what you do, not so good on the execution part.
34:56
And you called out exactly where my brain went is, yeah, sales
35:02
guys, they're great at sales. They're not usually good on the
35:05
operational front there. There generally isn't very good
35:08
crossover between those two functions.
35:10
Your brain is sort of, you know, pre wired for one way or the
35:14
other. So did you guys get a lot better
35:16
because of, you know, some of the internal team members that
35:19
you had where you're like, hey, I recognize that this is
35:22
something we really need to focus on.
35:25
I'm going to need your help because this is kind of the way
35:27
your brain works to person X wires.
35:30
You know, we did, we did have a a couple of folks internally
35:33
with very operational focuses in, in, in, in mindsets coming
35:40
in. So leaning on those individuals
35:42
to, to drive things. But I put a lot of that on
35:46
myself as an area of growth, area of opportunity to round
35:48
myself out professionally. It's not just because it doesn't
35:51
come naturally to me doesn't mean it's something I can't do.
35:54
You just have to try a little bit harder and be a little bit
35:56
more intentional about it. So, you know, I took a lot upon
35:59
myself to say, you know, this is impossible.
36:03
The idea of execution isn't, you know, something you, you, you
36:06
have or don't. It's just about, you know, if it
36:09
doesn't come naturally, you got to put a little more work into
36:11
it. I, I am.
36:13
I'm so happy to hear you give that kind of a response because
36:16
I think it highlights something that a lot of people don't
36:21
understand and those who do understand it need reminded of.
36:25
And it's this idea of growth mindset versus fixed mindset,
36:28
right? It'd be so easy to say, well,
36:30
I'm, you know, Dan Sauce, like I'm a, I'm a great sales guy.
36:34
Like that operation stuff, you know, like that's not for me,
36:38
like, you know, that's for somebody else.
36:40
And, and I've got two young boys, they're 8 and 10.
36:43
And I always try to think about ways to sort of, you know,
36:46
educate them and teach them of this, that you may not be great
36:50
at something today, but that doesn't mean that you can't get
36:53
better at it. Like we all have opportunities
36:56
for growth and we can stretch ourselves into these new and
36:59
uncomfortable places. And so I love to hear that.
37:03
You know, it was like, hey, it was a combination of I leaned on
37:06
some people internal that, you know, they have sort of the
37:09
background, the expertise in this.
37:10
And at the same time, I told myself, hey, you're leveling up.
37:14
Like I got to show up and and I got to help to make this entire
37:18
operation better. 100% and I face the same challenge with my
37:22
kids. Yeah, you haven't.
37:25
No, I don't. It was more of a question of how
37:27
you're doing. I don't, I don't think it's
37:31
sinking in quite yet because you know, my 10 year old, he's like,
37:37
Dad, I'm already good at football and I'm like, yeah,
37:40
yeah, you got, you got some skills and like, and if you want
37:43
to get better, like you can practice or, oh, Dad, I'm not
37:47
good at social studies or I'm, you know, I'm not good at, you
37:50
know, language arts and like, well, how do you get better?
37:54
So no, I I don't, I don't have the.
37:57
I tell you what we could probably spend 8 hours on, on
37:59
that topic alone, but you know, coming from, you know, now an
38:05
adult having, having kids, it's, it's interesting that overcoming
38:09
adversity is such a, a challenge for, for kids these days.
38:16
It's, you know, that immediate gratification.
38:17
And if it's not there, it's, you know, I'm not interested.
38:20
So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm right there as well saying, you know,
38:23
you always have to be pushing yourself, striving for
38:26
excellence. How can you get better if this
38:28
is indeed what you want? I'll, I'll, I'll spell the path
38:31
out for you and you're not on it.
38:35
So yeah, it's. And along these lines, it we'll,
38:40
we'll kind of get back to the main topic here, but I think
38:42
this is kind of an interesting sidebar.
38:45
You know, as parents, like we, we really want to protect our
38:50
kids from hardship and struggle. And, you know, we hate to see
38:55
them be hurt or sad or, or, or angry.
39:00
And at the same time, we recognize that there's value in
39:05
that struggle, right? Like you, you've mentioned, you
39:08
know, several times here, sort of the, you know, like the
39:11
learning curve that you have moving into the Consulting
39:13
Group, the, you know, the, the challenges of, you know, you
39:17
kind of focusing more on operational stuff to help fix
39:21
your execution. Like, like that was hard, right?
39:24
That that was that was that was a struggle didn't come naturally
39:27
to you, but you know, as you look back, like what a great
39:31
path for you for you to have taken.
39:34
And so as as parents, it's kind of hard to watch our kids
39:37
struggle, even though we know that often times that struggle
39:40
is the way for them to. Grow and right, you know, I
39:44
think sometimes it's I want to go pay my neighbor 20 bucks to
39:48
say the same thing to my kid as I've been trying to say just so
39:50
they hear it from, from somebody else.
39:54
But you know, I, I, I think it, you know, it comes down the, the
39:59
reality. You don't want your kid to be
40:01
punched in the face when they have their first job.
40:03
And, and I certainly grew majority of my growth and, and
40:07
advice comes from the mistakes I made.
40:10
And you always want that for your kids.
40:12
But you know, I have. How do I find that balance?
40:16
Yeah, but because in parents you go into protective mode.
40:20
Yeah. OK.
40:22
So get getting back to sort of the work that you're doing,
40:24
doing at Beiko, the the incredible growth that you guys
40:28
have experienced is, is this due in part to acquisitions?
40:33
Has that been part of the strategy?
40:34
Yeah, both we've we've acquired and we've grown organically.
40:38
You know, we've entered into, we've made some business
40:41
decisions that that making, making some acquisitions was a
40:46
good entry point into a certain market.
40:48
You know, that's how we got into Canada and and you know, we've
40:55
acquired some, some fairly sizable shops on the West Coast
40:58
as well. So but you know, it's, it's
41:00
organic growth as well. It's really a mixture of the
41:01
two. And Betco's a publicly traded
41:06
company now. No, it is not OK.
41:10
So it's it's it's started private.
41:12
It's remained private. What was what did you say?
41:15
Was it 3 or 4 guys in a broom closet on the back of an?
41:17
It was a bunch of of very driven, passionate and talent
41:21
individuals that that decided that their current company did
41:25
did a lot right, but wasn't always humane.
41:29
And so they their, their goal was to take the best parts of
41:32
that and, and strip out the BS and, and start a business with
41:39
with that simple operating model.
41:42
What do you mean the the previous models were not?
41:45
Human, this industry, you can get really married and I think
41:51
in any sales position to, to the activity.
41:54
And we always want our sales people to, you know, have high
41:57
activity levels, but you, you can't do that at the at the
42:01
expense of results. If somebody's hit their quota by
42:08
2X, I'm not going to beat them up if they're two meetings short
42:12
of hitting their goal, because it shows me that they're
42:15
spending the right time doing the right things.
42:17
And their, their model and approach may be different than
42:20
the other person. But you know, there's plenty of
42:22
shops that will make you explain those two meetings that you
42:25
didn't head and, and you know what, what exactly you were
42:29
doing with your time. And, and you know, that gets
42:32
abusive after a while. And, and especially when you get
42:36
some tenure and you, you know how you see success and it, it
42:40
may not be right along the company handbook of, of you know
42:45
how it's written, but, but you're going to have a lot, you
42:48
have to allow for that or you're going to, you're going to lose
42:51
talented people after they start understanding that.
42:56
So, you know, we've, we've eventually found our way into
43:01
some middle ground where, you know, back to it can't be the
43:04
wild, Wild West and we've scaled to a a large organization,
43:07
right. There needs to be some, some
43:09
structure and some expectation and and prescription around, you
43:14
know, the the amount of activity needed to succeed.
43:17
That's just the recipe to, to how to do well in this industry.
43:21
But you know, you, in my opinion, you know, taking a
43:24
results first mindset versus an activity first mindset makes a
43:30
lot more sense and, and allows me to judge people on the right
43:34
and grade people on the right things.
43:38
That makes a lot of sense. I'd like to hear more about how
43:42
you personally as well as maybe you know, VACO as an, an
43:45
institution, think about recruiting, retaining team
43:50
members. What, what have you done?
43:53
You know, whether it's sort of your, you know, full time
43:56
internal people, whether it's offshore near shore, whether
43:59
it's, you know, contract folks that you're, you know, placing
44:02
at your, at your clients sites. What have you guys?
44:07
You know, it continues to be a tight labor market for a lot of
44:09
folks. So what have you guys found
44:12
success with in terms of finding people sort of, you know,
44:16
sifting through all the noise and then you know, once you've
44:19
got them like to hold. On from an internal perspective,
44:24
I want to provide every opportunity for somebody to grow
44:28
into my role and not be threatened by that.
44:34
So, you know, I'm sharing, you know, monthly financials with,
44:39
you know, my lines of business leaders and saying, Hey, what do
44:42
you see here? What are your areas of
44:43
opportunity? What have you learned from this?
44:45
And, you know, getting them to have ownership of, of AP and L
44:50
and, and, you know, feel like they've got some stake in the
44:53
game rather than just reporting a number to, to somebody up the
44:56
food chain. And I, I really think that
45:00
empowers leaders to, to take ownership of their work and take
45:04
ownership of the work of their teams.
45:07
And, and so I certainly lean into providing every opportunity
45:11
for someone to grow with us. You know, like I said, I'm
45:15
surrounded by people that are, are smarter than I am.
45:17
So I I I don't fail to utilize them.
45:22
And it's big and smart of you to recognize that, that you've got
45:27
folks around you that are, you know, better at their individual
45:30
roles than than you are, that it shows that you're hiring
45:34
correctly, right? Yeah.
45:36
You're putting the right people in the right seats.
45:38
Yeah. And you know, our attrition is
45:40
for our industry is very low, very low by comparison.
45:45
And I think the, you know, we treat people like adults, we
45:48
invest in them and we we foster growth.
45:52
And I think people appreciate that.
45:54
And, and, you know, there there are, you know, there's always
45:58
this war to, to pluck talent from from other agencies and,
46:03
you know, bring people in. And frankly, I'm never concerned
46:06
about losing anybody to another agency, to another firm because
46:10
I know what we have can't be matched, at least not in the.
46:16
And you think it's, it's, it's mostly based around that fact
46:20
that you, you really encourage and foster individual growth in
46:24
your team. We provide, I, I have standards,
46:27
right? We, we have expectations as a
46:30
business, but you know, we offer a lot of flexibility to, to
46:33
folks and I think that's appreciated.
46:36
You know, if, if it's abused, we'll, we'll address it.
46:40
It normally isn't. But you know, we try to hire
46:43
the, the, the people that you don't have to keep your thumb
46:45
down on to, to produce when you look the other way.
46:50
And if we've done that right, it's just about, you know,
46:53
training them up in the right way, giving them the right
46:55
environment to succeed and let them go.
47:01
Dan, what's a serious challenge that you've had to overcome?
47:05
What was it? What did you learn?
47:07
How did you get through it? I dealt with a lot on my plate
47:14
from a personal standpoint over the last, I would say 5 to 10
47:21
years. Couple that with the stresses of
47:26
the job and my inherent need. If if you ask anybody that knows
47:31
me well enough to to try to control every variable with
47:35
within my life, right, Whether that be, you know, the what my
47:40
kids are doing to you know, what an ex-spouse is doing or how
47:44
they're thinking to, you know, how's everything on the home
47:47
front now to every variable that, that that comes up in
47:51
every everyday business. And it was madding and I didn't
47:55
deal with it well. And so I got burnt out and I
47:58
wasn't the father I wanted to be.
48:00
You know, I, I was in shutdown mode immediately after work
48:05
because I was just, my cup was full, right?
48:08
And I couldn't offer my spouse the attention that she needed,
48:13
my kids the attention that they needed because I was too busy
48:16
trying to wrap my arms around every single thing in my life
48:20
and spin those plates and, and keep them up at all times.
48:25
And, and that continues to be a struggle.
48:29
I'm a control person by nature. I want to, I want to feel like I
48:32
have some effect on an outcome, realizing that I still can, but
48:35
I cannot, I have to let go of some of that, you know, whether
48:40
that be through, you know, believe in a higher power,
48:43
through religion or, or or wherever you, you know, choose
48:46
to, to exercise that. But but letting go and saying,
48:48
you know what, there are things and variables in my life that I
48:50
can control, but there's a hell of a lot that I cannot.
48:53
I have to be OK with that. It's going to suck because it's
48:57
it again, it doesn't come naturally to me to just, you
49:01
know, believe in the outcome, but it was necessary for me to,
49:07
to sort of balance my life from a personal and, and professional
49:11
standpoint and, and feel like I could let some of that, that
49:14
stress go was, was huge. I think, I think what you're
49:20
touching on here doesn't get enough airtime.
49:24
Yeah, it's sort of this because I mean, you know, type A hard
49:28
driven, you know, people like ourselves, you know, it's it's
49:33
both a blessing and a curse, right?
49:34
Like you're good at what you do, Dan, because you are thinking
49:39
about all the details and, you know, controlling all these
49:42
different aspects that you can. But the reality of the world is
49:45
that it's so complex and there's so many other variables outside
49:49
of our control that you can line up all of your pegs exactly, you
49:54
know, in a straight row and, you know, be completely prepared.
49:57
And then something happens that you could have never foreseen,
50:02
wouldn't have any influence on. And it completely, you know,
50:05
disrupts your your game plan. You mentioned, I mean, you
50:09
touched on faith. Is that something that has been
50:11
an important element for you and and at least to some degree
50:16
starting to let go of this sense of trying to control or
50:19
something? Ampersand and, and, you know, as
50:22
part of a, a, a small group of, of, you know, some, some great
50:27
individuals that I, I, I met with on a weekly basis.
50:31
Unfortunately, schedules have gotten away from me where that's
50:33
no longer always possible. But, you know, that was a, a big
50:36
focus in, in, you know, throughout a couple of
50:39
conversations with that group kind of immediately hit a chord
50:44
with me, that man, you've got a stranglehold around it on to
50:48
different things. And, you know, a, you can't
50:51
control how that person is thinking, how they're feeling,
50:54
what they're going to do, But you're sure as hell putting a
50:58
lot of thought into it and, and allowing that to dictate your,
51:02
your, your happiness and your state of mind.
51:05
And, and you have to let some of that go.
51:08
Like you have to know you're doing the right things, but you
51:11
have to know that you can't control everything.
51:12
And, you know, whoever you trust or believe in or what you
51:15
believe in, you know, it's, it's, you know, very cathartic
51:20
to, to, to come to that realization.
51:23
And, you know, you kind of feel like you've taken some things
51:26
off your shoulders. So not to say that it's fixed.
51:28
Like it's still my mentality. And, and that's my default,
51:32
right, is, is to stranglehold. And I have to remind myself that
51:36
listen, it's impossible to do. It's it's this game of of
51:41
constant tug of war, right? Like that part of your brain can
51:44
say, hey, yeah, I recognize I need to let go of things.
51:47
And another part of your brain is yeah, but I don't.
51:49
Or what happens if I do right, right.
51:54
So, you know, and, and then from a business standpoint, that just
51:56
goes down to goes back to, you know, bringing the right people
51:59
on board, trusting them and, and knowing that you've, you've set
52:05
them up to succeed, but allowing them to succeed.
52:07
Similar to the path I was given coming on board, right?
52:10
It's just build this and you know how you think you ought to.
52:15
And we're going to give you the resources and have the
52:17
expectation that you're going to go out and do it right.
52:19
But we're going to give you the space.
52:23
Dan, let's say you and I connect again a year from now and you're
52:26
celebrating something. What would that be?
52:31
You know, we've got some pretty gaudy financial goals for our
52:38
business that I think we're we're poised to to hit as long
52:43
as our execution and go back to that execution piece.
52:46
Is, is is an A or an A minus this year.
52:49
So I think we're putting ourselves, I think we've put
52:53
ourselves in the in, in the place where we can't hit that.
52:59
That's been a big, you know, goal from when I've come on
53:03
board to sort of hit that that milestone as an office.
53:06
So I hope to be and plan to be celebrating that, you know, over
53:10
the next year. And I would just, you know, from
53:13
a personal standpoint is, is continued investment in myself
53:16
and continue continued growth as as a professional, as an
53:20
individual. I know that's not quantifiable
53:23
at times, but I think it all always needs to be top of mind
53:26
and something that I always haven't placed a whole lot of
53:28
importance in. Can you say more about the
53:33
growth goals, either like what they are or why it is that you
53:37
feel so encouraged that you can hit them?
53:40
Yeah. So we've got our budget number
53:42
and and I've put our bogey about 30% above that budget number.
53:48
So it's, you know, it's gaudy, it's, it's going to be a, a
53:52
reach. But again, I think we're at a
53:56
spot where we're doing the the simple things right
54:00
consistently. And we're starting to realize
54:05
the power of, you know, being able to have larger, broader
54:13
conversations with clients about big ticket, big picture
54:17
initiatives, you know, that come with, you know, big, big price
54:21
tags and big paychecks. At the end of the day, if you're
54:23
taking an organization through a digital transformation or an ERP
54:26
implementation or you know, a, a, a very strategic and high
54:30
level journey. So you know, having that
54:33
mechanism to say, you know what Staffog may be down this
54:37
quarter, there may not be a lot of people bringing on contract
54:41
associates. However, a heck of a lot of
54:43
people want to talk about offshoring right now.
54:45
Heck of a lot of people want to talk about data optimization
54:47
right now. Heck of a lot of people want to
54:49
talk about AI right now. Let's have those conversations.
54:55
And you feel like you've got the operational support in place to
54:59
execute on those as you're striking up those you?
55:04
Know the our organization went through a a recent brand
55:07
transformation where we had a a a bit of a convoluted story to
55:11
tell. Just going back to, you know, my
55:15
earlier comment about every office looking a little bit
55:18
different. And as we started to to
55:21
operationalize that we were rolling out seven different
55:25
brands. You know, this is our supply
55:26
chain brand and this is our consulting brand and this is our
55:29
healthcare brand. And this you know, and it just
55:31
became word salad at some point trying to introduce these to
55:36
somebody who doesn't have a background in what we do.
55:41
We've we've merged those into an entity called Highspring, which
55:48
VECO is the talent acquisition arm of High Spring and High
55:52
Spring is our main delivery engine for managed services and
55:55
consulting and that's agnostic across organizations.
55:58
We'll still have, we still have the same specializations, but
56:03
you know it eliminates a lot of the noise and and how we
56:05
introduce ourselves and what we do.
56:08
So that's been powerful and that's resonated with market.
56:12
Now, Dan, I've just got one more question for you.
56:15
But before I ask it, I want to do 2 things.
56:17
I'm going to invite all our listeners, first of all, to go
56:20
ahead and hit the follow button on their favorite podcast app so
56:23
you can continue to get more great interviews like we've had
56:27
today with Dan Sauce from Vaco. Dan, I also want to let people
56:31
know the best way either to get in touch with you personally,
56:34
follow your story or that vaco. Yeah, connect with me on on
56:41
LinkedIn. SaaS is my last name software as
56:45
a service, so it's pretty easy to remember and great icebreaker
56:49
for me at times. Or stupid joke.
56:51
Or both. And I made one.
56:55
There you go. Yes, I.
56:56
Took it the other way instead of a pun.
56:59
Pun intended. Yes, yes, pun intended.
57:02
Yeah, sorry. Go ahead.
57:03
So, yeah. So LinkedIn, we'll include the
57:05
the the link here in the show notes, but you.
57:07
Know, send me an e-mail, ddsauce@vaco.com.
57:10
Happy to, to engage or answer any questions anybody may have
57:13
about what we do and, and how we partner with clients.
57:15
So, yeah, I'm, you know, certainly excited for the
57:20
opportunity to, to share our story and in my story.
57:23
And hopefully it's it's somebody out there finds value in it.
57:29
So last question for you, I want to make sure that we talk about
57:32
the the small biz cares that you're a board member of what?
57:39
What is this? How'd you get started with it?
57:41
What does it do? Gosh, I got started with small
57:43
biz cares. I'm a morning person.
57:46
And so I think it was a Sunday and I don't know if this show is
57:50
still on. Probably is it was experience
57:52
Columbus or something. And it comes on at 5:30 or 6:00
57:55
AM on Sunday mornings. And so I was walking the dogs
58:00
and sort of listening to catch up on current events around the
58:02
city. And Naveen Bansal came on and,
58:06
and he's the, the creator of Small Biz Cares.
58:09
And, and really he was looking for an opportunity to create a,
58:13
a, a group that fosters philanthropy, that is a resource
58:18
to organizations that say, hey, you know, I want to give back.
58:20
I don't really know how or I don't have the time to organize
58:24
my team into, you know, volunteering or whatever we may
58:29
want to do Small biz cares provides that is that outlet
58:33
and, and and mechanism in which they can engage with to to
58:36
become more involved in the community, to network with other
58:39
small business and small entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, as
58:44
well as some, you know, mid sized organizations.
58:46
So it's been a a great group to be a part of and I think we've
58:50
done a lot of good. You know, we have quarterly
58:52
events and, and we're volunteering, whether that be,
58:56
you know, life Life Wise of Ohio or, you know, the, the, the food
59:01
pantry or the Columbus Food Collective.
59:05
So we, we, we always try to do a lot of good.
59:07
And we have a scholarship offering as well that comes
59:09
through that group. So yeah, small biz cares.
59:12
How? How can folks?
59:14
Yeah, small bizcares.org. We'll make sure we include that
59:19
in the show notes too. And Dan Sauce, I want to be the
59:22
first one to thank you for sharing both your time and your
59:25
story with us today. I.
59:26
Appreciate the opportunity to be on Anthony and looking forward
59:29
to staying in touch. That's a wrap on another episode
59:34
of the Inspired Stories podcast. Folks.
59:36
Thanks for learning with us today.