Latest / Salt of the Earth / Ep 123: Provenir _ Chris Balazs

Transcript

Ep 123: Provenir _ Chris Balazs · Salt of the Earth

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the start of the year.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking to the government, we'll get it over the law, we'll change the laws.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, right, so your pitch is to build the first mobile abattoir in Australia and change the laws as well.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yep, and we're going to do it.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're talking about one of the most innovative ideas in Australian agriculture.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Australia's first mobile abattoir.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: But this isn't just a story about processing beef.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a story about five people who believed there had to be a better way.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: We all shared the dream of being actually able to process animals on the farm.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: They battled through years of red tape, changed legislation, and built a company from the ground up.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Chris Bellage came from a biopharmaceutical science background, so he brings a really interesting perspective to animal welfare, meat quality and traceability.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: We also talk about the personal challenges he faced while building the company, including losing his wife and raising teenage daughters during some incredibly tough years.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: What I really like is that Chris doesn't just want Provenir to succeed, he wants others to follow the same path because he believes this model can change the industry.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fascinating conversation about innovation, persistence, and thinking differently.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Here's Chris from Provenir.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back, Chris.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Darren.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me back on the show.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Mate, always good to chat to you.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us a 60-second snapshot about Provenir?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: So Provenir is Australia's first and currently only mobile abattoir specialising in beef.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So essentially, instead of the animals going to the abattoir, the abattoir goes to the animals.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So think a very large truck that's got a lot of technology in it to be actually able to process cattle on the farm.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a team of four highly trained specialists that come out and we process the animal on the farm there, which removes the requirements for live transport and the stress associated with that.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we think it's a better solution.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's an awesome solution, mate.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll hear that I am a big fan of yours.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's been just over 12 months since our last chat.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: That was episode 61, and it rated really well, mate.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for that.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I recommend our listeners to go back and maybe get a more in-depth picture.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: But we're going to talk about a few other things.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Going back to before you started, you basically changed the law.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So when we first started, the the big idea that we had is if we want to produce Australia's best beef, how do we do that?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And being a farmer myself, you know, I really was unhappy about putting cattle on the back of a truck to go to a sale yard or an abattoir.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, these are my cattle, and if I'm going to do the full job, that includes the processing and producing the meat as well.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So little did we know at that stage some of the regulatory hurdles that we had to get over.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So Provenir was founded in 2017.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: There was five founders back then, and we all shared the dream of being actually able to process animals on the farm, connecting the farmer to the food production side of meat and remove the stress from the animals as well.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that was something that I was quite passionate about.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: We thought, what a great idea, and it's not a novel idea.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's been many that have attempted this before with limited success, and none had successfully done it in Australia before.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we founded the company and started the regulatory pathway of getting the truck licensed.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: So in Victoria, the regulations are managed by an organization called PrimeSafe.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we went to PrimeSafe at the start and said we're going to build a mobile abattoir, we want to have a chat, let's talk about how this can be.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we got nothing back from them, like zero response.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Multiple emails uh were going through, phone calls, it was just dead silence.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So one of our founders, Phil Larwell, had been talking to government about how do we make this possible.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: So spoke to the minister at the time, who was Jala Pulford and a great advocate for uh Victorian produce and the sort of paddock-to-plate industry as well.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so she basically told them, you've got to talk to them, okay?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're the regulators, um, they want a license, you have to talk to them.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, right uh from the first meeting, we showed them the designs and said, you know, how we're going to meet, this is where it gets a bit technical.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: But but even leading up to now to showing them the designs, you had put an enormous amount of work into researching and designing the truck and so forth to be able to present something to these people.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we we had spent a lot of time doing the research of all the regulations.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So in Australia, there is a single Australian standard that each of the states have adopted, which is Australian Standard 4696-2023, the production of meat for human consumption.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: All the legislation and the regulations is based on this standard.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the standard is not prescriptive, it's outcome-based.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: So as long as you achieve what the standard says you have to achieve to be able to produce meat for human consumption, that's okay.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't tell you how to do it, it tells you what the outcome has to be.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we put into our design.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we had engineers draw it all up and, you know, in consideration of the standards and also the various acts that guide meat production in Victoria.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we showed that to the regulators and said, you know, how come you're not even talking to us?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Their response was, well, we had a look at this and we can't license you because it's a vehicle.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: To which, yes, we had a similar response, you know, quizzical.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an abattoir is a place in which an activity occurs according to the standards.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: So whether it's on the wheels or it's cemented to the ground doesn't actually make a difference to the outcome of what you're doing.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So then it got fairly esoteric, really, in their interpretation of the standards.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: So as we were trying to understand what was the actual nub of the issue that they said that they couldn't license us, it actually came down into the definitions section of the meat, uh the Victorian Meat Act 1973, in which it has the definitions of all the various you know aspects that are in that act.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what is an abattoir, what is meat, what is a vehicle, what is you know, power, you know, it's got all the definitions in there.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So under the definitions of an abattoir, it was a place in which the processing of meat for human consumption occurs.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a a building is a place, a vehicle is a place, a boat is a place, you know, they are all places.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we said there's no problems with that.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So where's the issue?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, ah, if you go down, it defines what a vehicle is, and a vehicle is for the transportation of meat from an abattoir to a further processing facility or retail outlet.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we went, that's fine.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, ah, but you can't be a vehicle and an abattoir at the same time because of the two definitions.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we said, that's actually ludicrous.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Two things can be true at the same time.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, they dug their heels in and said, no, we're not doing it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um we then went pretty hard lobbying the minister.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, lobby is probably a very strong word.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was a grand total of sort of five farmers, chefs, and vets, sort of sending emails and making phone calls.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: In the end, they actually took it to, I think it's cabinet, to determine whether they were actually going to update the law.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we were very excited when they called back and they said, actually, Cabinet's actually passed it, and it goes into what's called an omnibus bill, which is basically a bill that just cleans up all the acts, makes them relevant to the times.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So they might, you know, there are no big changes or anything else.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so this was going to be included in the omnibus bill.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: That took uh another probably 12 months.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So this is back in 2017, was when we were really starting to push it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it didn't really get introduced until 2018, and I know far more about the legislative process than I ever wanted to know, and what anyone else would ever want to know.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it has to go through three readings in the lower house.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Final reading is a vote on it, and if there's a majority, it'll go up to the house of review.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's got to be three readings there as well.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we got so we got through the lower house, and then you have to see when it's actually going to be gazetted to be read in the upper house, and that was another six months.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So all the time we were actually still continuing to build the truck.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um you had some confidence at this point?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we were all in.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: We had people who were backing us as well and said, you know, we want to see this happen.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is ridiculous that we're stuck in this regulatory quagmire.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it was coming up to, I think it was around October 2018, and the election was in November 2018.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: It got the second reading.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: It actually got the third reading, but because it was an omnibus bill, so there was a whole lot of acts that were being updated, there was something else that got rejected, which brought the whole thing down.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: The whole bill.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So because we were a small part of the bill, something else, it was actually to do with duck shooting.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was the Greens or the Animal Liberationists, put an amendment in there that the government wouldn't agree to, and it brought the whole thing down.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we thought we were scuttled at that point.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: The uh Labor government got back in in 2019.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was a new minister.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So straight ahead, straight away, we were contacting her and saying, look, the bill went through last time, you know, push it through again.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there was other people with other amendments in the broader bill that wanted it passed.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so they put it in, and this time it took probably another 12 to 18 months to get through, but in October 2019, so it just took over a year, it actually went through.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the big change was in the definition of abattoir, it states an abattoir is a place and or vehicle in which the slaughter of animals for human consumption occurs.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So is that the only change?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, and or vehicle was that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so then PrimeSafe had to come to the party and go through the licensing process.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: But then if they were originally saying a mobile abattoir couldn't be a place that you'd transport meat, but then you've got a separate semi-cool room, a separate semi-trailer happy as well.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so we have what we call the MPU or the mobile processing unit, which is the truck that's pretty much got all the tech in there that enables us to process up to 950 kilo animals.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously the roof has to raise to be able to do the process, and then connected to that is what's referred to as an MTV or a meat transport vehicle, right?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where the carcasses go in to be chilled and then transported back to what we call the hub or butchery, yeah, uh, where we hang the meat and then break it down.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever have doubt?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think you always have that little voice niggling in the back of your mind.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if you really believe in something, it's you know, you've had many, many guests on on this show that when you have a purpose and that's your goal, you're not going to let a couple of hurdles uh stop you.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like, you know, we've got to do this.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we were licensed in New South Wales.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and that's it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's the stupidity, is we could drive up to New South Wales, and that's where we started back when we launched in 2019.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: We were processing in New South Wales because those regulators looked at New South Wales regulations, said there's nothing that prohibits it.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing saying that it endorses it, it's silent on it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as long as you meet the standards, no problems.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we would drive to New South Wales, drive the meat transport vehicle back to Victoria.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you could do that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And our butchery was licensed by Prime Safe, there was no problems, and we were selling the meat in Victoria.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we're like, what's the purpose of blocking exactly right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: You had five founders, is that right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And five of the best by the sound.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: The mix was perfect.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess you had to all believe in each other.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: You had your own roles to play.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a great collection of skills.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: We all had the same motivation.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we had Phil Larwell, who is a veterinarian and very much into uh regenerative agriculture as well, is really passionate about that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he's the one that kicked off the regulatory engagement with the government.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: We had Christopher Howe, who is an excellent chef and is really passionate about food provenance as well.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: His partner, Jane Newgreen, so she had worked a lot with farmers markets in the marketing side of that, so really knew how to tap into people who care about this as well.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then we had Marissa Martinez, who's our current chair at the moment.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Long-term friend of mine is a barrister, comes from Townsville.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And when we were going into these early stages, we were like, we really need some legal, uh, legal support.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a bit of a funny, funny story as well, because when we kicked this off, we went through uh AgTech startup called Sprout X, uh, which was an excellent program.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, you know, we had this idea how are we going to turn it into a business?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we went into the incubator as a six-month program, taught us how to do, you know, the 30-second elevator speech and you know, how to talk to potential investors about you know the terms of coming in, what a con node is, what a safe node is.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So gave us a really good grounding around how to be a startup.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: But very early on, which I'm still surprised that they selected us because there was only 10 that got selected to go into the program.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we were talking to the selection committee, and Marissa wasn't with us at that stage.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: The review board basically said, So, look, we love the idea.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we think this is great, we reckon it's gonna get some good traction.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Our understanding it's not legal.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we said, look, don't worry about that.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're we're talking to the government, we'll get it over the line, we'll change the laws.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, right, so your pitch is to build the first mobile avatar in Australia and change the laws as well.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah, and we're gonna do it.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we did, which is fantastic, and and a feather in uh Provenir's cap.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a lot of people who went, right, we're gonna back you, we're gonna give you guys a crack.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's probably been a theme through Provenir's history.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then when Marissa, she was the only law-talking guy that I knew, and so I called her up and I said, Um, Marissa, I'm I'm starting this new project, you know, what do you think about it?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And she's a complete foodie, and she's like, I love it, it's fantastic, that's brilliant.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Go you.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then I said, Look, you know, it's going to get pretty legal, and there's a lot of regulations that we have to wade through and so forth.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know anyone that you know we could you know tap on the shoulder, potentially come into the company?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've got no money, but you know, having some legal expertise would be really helpful.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're too busy, but you know, have a think and see if you think if there's anyone else that you know can do it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Two days later, she said, I've been thinking about this.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um would you would you be happy if I came in?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and I said, Oh, that would be fantastic.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, a bit too quickly, because she says straight after that, she goes, That was your plan all along, wasn't it?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Oh, you just needed a bit of time to think about it.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um, she's been incredible.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so many hurdles and so time consuming in that time of your life, but you had a lot of other things going on in your life too.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I had a uh what was it, 17-year career as a um uh biopharmaceutical scientist for a large multinational called uh CSL, which was Aussie Company went global, which was fantastic, but that course had had run its track, uh so to say.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'd I'd actually finished up with that and I'd actually started my own little paddock to play company called Sage Farm, going to farmers markets and pretty much doing everything.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: I had my own butchery and obviously grew the cattle as well.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And there was one piece that was missing, and that was processing inside of it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So when we sort of came together, it was like this is the missing piece.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't realise how hard it was for that missing piece.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so family life was pretty busy, you know, have three daughters into horse riding, so you know, lots of equestrian events and and so forth from there.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you lost your wife?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um separated from B, uh when was that, 2015?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pleased to say we were we were still good friends afterwards.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think we were particularly good as husband and wife, but we definitely managed raising the children together really well.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so she moved to a farm eight K's down the road, and so there was lots of horses and you know kids back and forth and so forth.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in 2018, she contracted a really rare cancer, synovial sarcoma, uh, which is generally happens to men, 90% men, um most of them 70 years or older life uh expectancy is around seven to eight years and diagnosis.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: B got it in 2018 and passed away in 2019.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm so sorry, mate.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was uh really really hard, hard time.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And your mind does funny things, it sort of blocks out the pain and so forth.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't have a lot of recollection of that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that was sort of the the timing was pretty challenging um because we became operational on the 24th of June 2019.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: We won Australia's Best Beef uh on the 10th of August 2019.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's eight weeks after you started.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And bee passed away two weeks after that.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh mate.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just like an absolute roller coaster of their emotions and and definitely a a hard time, and you know, it was it was really tough for the kids as well because I'm I'm doing this startup, which is like an extremely demanding fourth child that you're trying to raise and trying to be there for the kids as well as they and teenage kids too, teenage kids.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they were 14, 12, and 10 uh at the time trying to navigate that as a dad.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm sure your girls now look at you and go, Well done, dad.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I think they're um it it's hard for kids of parents that are really dedicated into a startup or that could be a sport or could be anything else.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's it puts a lot of demands on the time as well.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm super proud of the girls now, and you know, two of them off at uni now.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I think they're they're turning into really good humans.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but um what's happened over The last 12 months has there been any milestones?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: The journey continues.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have a mission of wanting to see multiple mobile abattoir across Australia, not just under the Provenir brand, but we we want to see this adopted by others as well.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we're working with a few groups at the moment as they start to navigate how to build a mobile abattoir.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's so much more to it as well, as on you know, the staffing side of things, and then you know, how do you compete in the market and you know which market are you going to compete in?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's there's a whole lot to it.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty exciting as we as we go down that path.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And well, that's very good of you because you could just have it as your company and keep growing that, and you can you can deliver anywhere in Australia.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: That that is true, but the mission of the company and and Marissa and I are really clear about this is we actually want to change the industry.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: We've gone through and we've sort of hopefully cracked open the ice, and we want others to follow as well.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, anyone else who's building a mobile abattoir, it's like you go.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a better way.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we don't want to be the only mobile abattoir in Australia.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: We want to see others and would really like to see producers, um, so the farmers actually adopting this and taking more control of the supply chain from there because it's really disjointed at the moment.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's producers and there's processors, and they're in most cases to completely different mindsets and mindsets, exactly, and commercial objectives.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: If we want real paddock to plate, I think producers and the farmers, you know, they're made of the right stuff to take it on.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it takes me back to the what you mentioned in our last episode when you were sending cattle off to the market and they were going up the race.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you thought, what's going to happen after that?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: All the stress they were going through.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is where the idea came from originally.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that was my you know sliding door or turning gate moment.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, I didn't know that mobile processing was the answer.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew that I wasn't happy with that, and then that probably started, you know, thinking about what the solution could be.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've seen you process two animals, and as I said before, it's it's so calm.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: The animal doesn't know what's happening.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's no noise in the truck.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: They walk up the race, up the ramp so calmly, quietly, no music in the truck, yeah, and it's all over.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of design, so it looks very much like a standard kettle crush.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's exactly what we want.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this isn't anything different.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I've seen this before, that's fine.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Walk in, secured, it's very quick.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's another reason why the quality of the meat is so good.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And also you have a focus on having these animals grow up in a regenerative farming method?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, provenir produces meat, but the the broader business has a very clear, I guess, stance and vision about what that meat will be.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you can have two pieces of meat that look identical on a tray.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: One comes through a supermarket that's been through feedlots and a path that most people wouldn't agree with.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I certainly don't.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can have a piece of provenir meat, which has come from a regenerative farm, 100% grass-fed, ethically processed, and delivered to your door.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: They look the same, but they are essentially very different.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, mate.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've I'd kind of look at yours stuff.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have it delivered, and I think we can know the difference, but we've stopped buying beef from the supermarket now.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: So and we order about 15 packs about every six weeks.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's an easy online order.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: It gets delivered to our door, the quality is awesome.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And launch subscriptions now, so you don't even have to think about it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I leave all that up to Leona, my partner.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: She might like going shopping.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, a question from one of our listeners: is there a minimum number a farm needs to have processed?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there is.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: So for our operations, there's certain commercial requirements that we need to have with regards to the number of the animals to balance with the customer demand that we have from there.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's around 15 to 18 animals, and that's highly dependent on the size of the animal as well.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: So some people go, oh, that's great.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, well, we've got 18 animals and they're 850 kilos each.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's basically two animals in one type of thing.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: So with that number, it's around that 550 to 650 kg.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: We can do larger animals, and we prefer not to do much under 450 just because it's very hard to finish an animal.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and roughly what age would that be?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: We do, which is surprising a lot of people.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: We actually prefer uh coal cows, so older animals as well.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So our preference is eight-tooth good condition cows.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people go, oh, isn't that the worst type of meat?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's not.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you talk to a lot of the top uh chefs, they all know that the flavor profile in older animals is more complex.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: They've got to be in good condition.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that'll come back to the farmer having to operation in a regenerative way.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a bit of science behind why cows work really well in our system.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's because we remove the stress.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: The ability for an animal to deal with stress and still retain good meat quality is solely dependent on its glycogen level.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So younger animals, like younger kids, have more energy.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: They run around and you know, they do all that and they can keep going.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Where us older people, yes, we have glycogen, but it runs out a lot quicker than that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so when cows are being transported, they don't have as big a glycogen bucket to get through the transportation process.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why the meat quality on the other side is vastly more variable, where we just keep the bucket full because then there is no transport.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: So then the meat quality is always good.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I also learned a lot about rigor mortis in your last episodes.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: A bit of a nerd.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, I loved it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Traceability is a big thing for you, too, isn't it?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have our packets arrived, and on the label we know which property it's come from, which is awesome.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that was part of our, you know, we want to champion farmers as well.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a farmer myself, so I put my own farm on there as well.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: But we want our customers to know exactly where their food comes from.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we see that as you know, a respect for the farmer, a respect for the customer.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also a sort of unique aspect of our business that we go to many farms and we can tell you from every single piece of meat, even down to the mints, which farm it actually comes from.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we sort of see that as you know, respecting our our customers and our farmers as well.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, they get to have a voice as well because there's just so many farmers that go into the system and they've got wonderful practices and you know they've got stories that should be told as well.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I made some uh wrissoles with some of your mints last night and I looked at the packet and it was from Yolandra.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the mother-in-law loved them last night with some bungarin mashed potatoes.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, right.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well, it's uh getting you in the good books.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to have a an MSI, a meat safety inspector, on the truck at all times?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so lots of regulations in the production of uh meat.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So MSI or meat safety inspector is someone that inspects the health of every single animal that goes through the process.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a 47-point check of what they have to check, the you know, the glands, the liver, and make sure that that meat is going to be safe for human consumption.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you have three MSIs on the track at one time.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, well, we're down to one at the moment, but I'm doing my uh meat safety inspection certificate as we speak.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'll I'll be able to be uh MSI down the path.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And another question from a listener what happens to the awful?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: So when you say awful, what do you mean?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Liver, lungs.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, so there's edible offal and inedible offal.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um the edible offal, we retain that and we sell that online as well.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we we have a lot of people generally from a European background that have those uh recipes that honour offal as well.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of carnivores uh do that, and um we sell an awful lot of offal sausages, which are super popular, and a lot of people in um on carnivore diets or keto diets really like that as well because it's a it's an easy way to um get that offal into their diet as well.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the non-eating offal?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so the inedible offal, so offal is generally referred to as anything that's not the carcass.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the um the intestines from there.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um cows, ruminants, they've got four stomachs.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: It really depends on on the farm.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if they've got an appropriate system for dealing with the I call them inedible resources, because there's no such thing as waste, there's only a lack of imagination.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, like the farm that we've just been at, Yolandra has a really large worm farm.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so the inedible resources go into there, get broken down by the worms, he collects the worm juice and sprays it out on scale across his farm.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's this circular economy that Scott at Yolandra is doing, and and more and more farmers are starting to understand that that's actually a resource that they can use.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the future of the industry?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: If I had to say in two words, it would be crossroads.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's been quite a bit of focus, and I've been on a couple of working parties looking at the industry as it continues to centralize.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's just over 200 avatars in Australia.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: We process, I think it's 11 million head of cattle, vastly more sheep, and only 200 facilities actually do that.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's getting more and more concentrated.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this is creating a real challenge for farmers who want to do paddock to plate to actually get space to be able to send their animals in and get the carcass back so that they can do box beef, similar to what we're doing.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening is more of the medium, pretty much all of the large abattoirs are export licensed.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So export pays a lot more than what domestic does.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they're just focused on overseas, which is kind of distorting the market because they're still purchasing the cattle from the same farmer group from there, so they can pay inflated prices based on the fact that they can sell the meat exports, which means that it's harder for domestic producers to be able to compete for the cattle with the farmers.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, in the short term, this scenario is great for farmers, and I don't think anyone in the uh cattle farming game would be complaining about prices over the last 18 months to two years.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: The side effect of that is we are basically selling our processing capability to overseas.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can see this constriction of the medium and smaller abattoirs that are domestically focused because they can't compete in that scenario.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what's referred to as kill space or contract kills from abattoirs is rapidly decreasing and in some cases being removed altogether.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there was an abattoir that was run by the Hardwick family in central Victoria, got taken over by Kilcoi, a Chinese-backed company, and they stopped all contract kills.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so everybody who was, and that's where I did when we started with my sage farm, is I'll take my cattle up there, it might be two, it might be three, they would process it, not be able to get the carcass back and then go and sell it.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's disappearing now.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: So these independent farmers that are you know actually selling their own meat, that's getting harder and harder.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a question around our food sovereignty that is coming into you know stark contrast at the moment.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why we want to see more mobile processing units, more farmers saying, well, you know, do it yourself.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a five-year vision?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: It probably is the same vision that uh I had five years ago.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's multiple mobile processing units.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: We really want to see that get adopted because it is a better solution.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: We knew that being the first, we actually had to prove the concept.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not just on the first processing, that's years that you actually have to show that it's it can be done.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's years of meeting every single audit, it's years of operating every single week, it's years of growing your customer base and so forth.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and we feel like we've done that now.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think your customers have got a lot of trust.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, we respect that trust, yeah.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: It always like more customers.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was at a meeting in a working group last year, and there was about 30 odd people in the room, and one lady got up and said, Since listening to your episode on Salt of the Earth Farm Stories, she won't buy her beef from anywhere else now.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: She only gets it from you.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really nice to hear.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: That is lovely to hear.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, on our Google reviews, we get I love them because you actually get really personal um reviews.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And often it's you reply back, isn't it?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we reply 100%.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Every single review goes up.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: It may not be the same day, yeah.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we respond to every single uh review because I think if they've taken the time to be able to give us a good review, the least we can do is acknowledge it and think of lamb or pork, yep?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not as mobile processing.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: What we are doing is we're working with other regenerative farmers.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we work closely with Bandara, Lauren Stevens, uh, who's uh launched the microabattoir up at um Barham as well, which is a multi-species abattoir up there.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um we both know the um the highs and the lows of uh starting an abattoir.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we we sell her pork through our online store as well, and also we do uh wild pies, which is made from venison and wild boars and so forth.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: So some really interesting stuff on there.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do we ever stop and think, wow, I've changed the industry?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Haven't done that yet.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you have.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I might once there's 10, 15 mobile units going, and you know, I I'd love to see an organization where we can share knowledge and help each other out and and actually get a bit of a foothold into the broader industry.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um the mission continues.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Chris, your website is provenier.com.au.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's p-r-ovenir.com.au.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: I recommend all our listeners jumping on just for a look.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then going down running through what you might like.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's and we've got a new website being launched, hopefully, this month.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: We've taken the feedback from some of our customers about all the clunky bits, and so we think it's going to be really good with the uh the new website that's gonna launch.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Are you up for some off-the-ball questions, Chris?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Quickfire.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Biggest risk you've ever taken.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: Starting provener.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard that.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Best piece of business advice.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this was from my mentor, and he was quoting someone else, but he said it doesn't matter how many times you get knocked down, it's how many times you get up that counts.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Favourite cut of beef?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's winter, so I'm going to say brisket, a uh 16-hour slow brisket.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you put in with that?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've got a whole little recipe that I've posted on socials.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, super easy uh with our bone broth as as the base in there, and I like to do it with sort of Asian flavours in there as well.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, yeah, just afford the backup.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, it's amazing.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful makes me very popular at home.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a piece of steak, rare, medium, or well done?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Rare.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Stovetop, barbecue, or campfire?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Campfire.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, love, love camping.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love uh getting the campfire going.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: What do people still misunderstand about Provenir?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: That we are a home kill service.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: We we constantly get people saying, We've got two two cows.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Can you come out and do it?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've been asked that about you too.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Who are the unsung heroes behind Provenir?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot, but definitely uh Marissa Martinez, who has just been incredible with the guidance and um support for me as well as the chair of the company, super passionate.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the other unsung hero that I'd like to name, besides our all of our staff, who some of them you met today, who are fantastic, uh, is my partner Kira, who uh has been by my side the entire way.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, when the when the lip drops, she tells me to pick it up and uh keep on going.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's she's an incredible woman.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I guess they're farmers too, are unsung heroes of what they're who you're working with.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yes, but not necessarily unsung because we put them on every pack of meat and they're on our website, and we're very loud and proud about our uh farmers.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe not unsung, but yes, fantastic supporters of Provenir.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Chris, when you're sitting in the truck by yourself after a long day, what makes you think, yeah, this is why we've built Provenir?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's probably when I might get a text from a farmer who's proudly showing her son taking a mark at the local footy ground.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's at that point I realize that this is more than just a business.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is being able to connect with people and actually make a difference from there.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have you know someone that you have a commercial transaction with, but it goes so much deeper that you know they're sending proud moments of their kids taking a mark at putting, you know, it's like that means more to me.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and let's join through with our chats that we've had and and made once again today.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um always a pleasure talking to you of Lar Stack again.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's an awesome product.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Listeners, jump online, order it, it's easy, best quality.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again, Chris.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's been an absolute pleasure.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Daniel.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: A big thanks to Chris Balage for sharing the provenir story.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a reminder that some of the biggest changes in agriculture come from people willing to challenge the way things have always been done.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed today's chat, please follow the podcast.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Share it with someone who'd enjoy it too.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Darren Green.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And until next time, keep your hands dirty and your spirits high.