Latest / Beyond The Trailhead / Why Everyone Loves Alpha Direct | Beyond the Trailhead Podcast Ep. 40
Transcript
- speaker-0: Welcome back to another incredible episode of Beyond the Trailhead. This week is a great week. We've got Joe with Far Point. ⁓ how are you doing, Joe? speaker-1: Good. Thanks for having me on. speaker-0: Caught you mid sip, sorry. speaker-1: No, it's all right. speaker-0: Awesome. Well, wanted to have you on. I know ⁓ we I we didn't really meet too much, but it was at trail days. ⁓ I saw your gear and ⁓ saw everything and and loved it. And then we kind of reached out and chatted a little bit more about having you on and just talking about the gear that you have. I'm repping a little bit of it ⁓ right now as well and I see a ton of people ⁓ on trail everywhere, you know, especially ⁓ on the AT. I see it all over the place. But ⁓ see it everywhere now and people are are really into ⁓ this type of wear when it comes to ⁓ the trail. So I guess if you can just go right into like what ⁓ who you are, what Farpoint ⁓ is and how you kinda got into what ⁓ what you do and then exactly what what it is I'm wearing. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. So ⁓ Farpoint is a small company. We're based out in Oregon on the Oregon coast in Newport. we do all a hundred percent of our products are made in house and we've it's been that way since the start. ⁓ we've been we've been in business since twenty twenty one, where initially I started ⁓ I was working out of my garage for the first couple of years and it was just me for the first year doing all the sewing. And cutting. And then the second year I brought on this woman, Yusha, who's been with me. She's still with me and she's really amazing. ⁓ and she makes the absolute best best kimchi I've ever had. ⁓ yeah, she's she's fantastic. A total machine too, with work wise. She'll Yeah. Yeah. She just yeah, she's great. ⁓ that's awesome. Yeah, we got a small team of like eight. And ⁓ so we we specialize in ultralight fleece and ultralight clothing. we we make sunwear but mainly fleece. ⁓ we started with Alpha Direct. And so back in back in twenty one, a buddy of mine was like, hey, let's hike ⁓ the Colorado Trail. And ⁓ at the time I just started just started getting into hiking in the PNW. ⁓ and I was really excited to do it. So we went out there and I had this old like ⁓ sort of like military beanie that I wore the whole time. It's like a traditional 200 weight fleece. Pretty much what you see like Patagonia cinchilla made out of. ⁓ and so when I got back, I wanted to I had seen Alpha Direct on Reddit. ⁓ Sinchi was just starting to do some sales and I saw a Mac pack. Nitro, which was my first alpha hoodie. And so I bought a used one on Reddit. And I loved the fabric. I thought it was awesome. Yeah. ⁓ and so I bought a couple yards of bought a couple yards of the alpha. And I bought a small little sewing machine. It was like that big. It was tiny. ⁓ it was pretty funny. And ⁓ I made some patterns for this ⁓ like four panel beanie. So it'd have like two, one stripe, and then, you know, the brim. And I made I think I got like a dozen of them, sold them on Reddit, which took off. I did like four, maybe five sales on Reddit, which would have like I don't know, two dozen items, including hoodies. I started making hoodies at that point. And then ⁓ yeah, we did Started taking custom orders, which was really fun. If you look back on our Instagram, you could see a lot of the custom work. ⁓ Yeah. But I quickly realized like this can't keep up with this, so went strict to strictly to ⁓ just stock ⁓ stock stuff and yeah started making pants. ⁓ yeah, and and and right off right out right off the bat I thought Sunware I wanted to I definitely wanted to get involved in Sunware. And so we were making sun hoodies ⁓ back in like twenty one and I remember a lot of people being like, ⁓ Merino isn't for Merino isn't for hot weather or like why would you do a sun hoodie when you could do a button up? And ⁓ I was like, No, the sun hoodie's the way to go And it's funny 'cause I it's like everyone's making sun hoodies now, but ⁓ yeah, I've always I've always loved the sun hoodie and I'm I always like completely cover up when I'm in the sun. when I'm out hiking. ⁓ I hate hate sunscreen but baby bum on my face and hands and Yeah. Yeah. Merino is awesome too. Merino is ⁓ people say, ⁓ merino's just for just for hot weather or just for cold weather. But no, Merino is like a ⁓ temperature regulating fabric. It does really well in big swings attempts and ⁓ Yeah. And it and it you can see it now a lot of ⁓ a lot of companies are getting involved with Merino, so it's cool. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, I see I see a ton of people like you t like you said, like everybody's kind of in in the the thing now making making these and stuff like that. But you know, you kind of alluded to like, you know, you made custom stuff before. And ⁓ I know I usually go into more about the history of everything with you, but I think just hearing what you said about like you were doing custom stuff and now it's like, okay, I realize that that's gonna that takes a lot more work. And it's great that you can order custom. I know some other people do custom stuff, but ⁓ in order to really grow, you probably say, Okay, I have to in order in order to make money, in order to grow my company, I'm gonna have to just go with, you know, pre done stuff. And you got a lot of great patterns and and stuff already on the site and and stocks. So you're you know, you're in touch with it. I saw like there's like an A T version ⁓ that's out there and stuff like that. So what ⁓ Yeah, what's the difference between going from I guess just jump right into like what what's the difference between going from custom to doing like stuff that all you can only order ⁓ direct? speaker-1: So the typical route is gonna be ⁓ sourcing ⁓ material sourcing and then ⁓ working with factories and pretty much doing a cut and so factory, which they would require it's called a tech pack. And so you usually work with someone who would develop a tech pack for you. You send it to a factory, the factory send you a sample for you to approve and then they start production. I I never went there ⁓ And I think the big reason was when I had hiked the Colorado Trail, I actually road tripped I went to Chicago where my family is, and then we road tripped my mom and brother road trip back here to Oregon. And on the way back, we stopped at Melanzano. And ⁓ I was waiting in this line for like an hour. And, you know, you could see inside they they do in house production as well. And ⁓ And it was very inspiring and I was like, Man, this is the way to do it. You got a small team. you're taking care of you know, you you're in your community, taking care of this small team of people. Yeah. ⁓ you always have eyes on production, always have eyes on quality control. And so when I got back, that's I I knew that was the route I wanted to go. it is yeah, it is a really unique route. And for anyone who is thinking about getting into the clothing industry, it's not It's not your typical route. ⁓ but if you can make it work, I know I've talked to some other ⁓ clothing company owners and they said they tried it and it just wasn't working and so they switched over to cut and sew, which is, you know, it's great. But ⁓ if you can make it work, I think it's really awesome. We do you know, we do like a quarterly party, ⁓ Every every birthday party everyone's birthday we do a birthday party, so we get like lunch and then they get the option if they want their birthday off, which I always loved. ⁓ yeah, it's a lot of fun. But it definitely takes a lot of time and ⁓ just a lot of dialing and stuff. Initially, like I said, that machine was like this big and now we've got over a dozen ⁓ over a dozen industrial machines. bunch of surgers, cover stitch, straight stitch, zigzag. our most recent machine is a cylinder bed cover stitch and we apply our elastic to our pants with it. It's really nice. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, but it's it's a unique route but I think it's it's really worth it. I think it's an awesome, awesome setup and it's it's fun 'cause when you buy Far Point you're you know, you're directly supporting a small team of people that ⁓ that made your product. So Yeah. speaker-0: No, that's great to that's great to hear that you're doing it locally that way too. Cause I think, you know, sometimes people think when a company grows, they immediately go overseas. And again, there's nothing wrong with going overseas. It's just, you know, you're like, hey, I I like this method and it works for me. And ⁓ you know, some people are like, you know what, I'd rather just go overseas. There might be little more communication stuff that goes on there and and everything. You might be actually saving more going overseas in some regard, but then you have that. That family and stuff like that. Go ahead. speaker-1: No, yeah. Like you said, the ⁓ the margins are ⁓ the margins overseas are way bigger. And I and I mean but also your MOQ, your minimum order quantities are much larger too. So it is scaling can be really big with that. And then ⁓ I was watching your video, your interview with Dan Durston, he was talking about cash flow. That also becomes very critical if you start to work overseas or with a factory because there's a lot of money up front and then there's a lot of waiting. ⁓ we're doing small batch turnarounds every month and yeah, it kinda it helps with cash flow. It's nice. But then also yeah yeah, payroll, so you gotta yeah, you gotta keep keep ahead of it, which is speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I always go back to like I used to want to grow my business and I was like, ⁓ I'll bring on some more photographers and and everything. And then I like, you know what? I'm just gonna stay boutique y I think certain growth patterns are good for some people. They know how to handle it or they wanna handle it. And other people are like, you what, I just wanna stay there's nothing wrong with staying small and doing it yourself. Right. But then it's also great when you can put you're putting back in like you have your team. Like you're like, ⁓ she makes great kimchi, you know, like you you know your team so well that if you just one big family, ⁓ I think that's that's really, really cool. So going back to the beginning of when you started, so I guess from when did you go from doing it yourself and doing custom? How long were were you doing that before you were like, Okay, I gotta make this switch? speaker-1: ⁓ just about three years ago is when we went from the garage to a a large shop space, ⁓ which was kind of funny 'cause at the time I was ⁓ living in Newport. ⁓ me and my girlfriend at the time were we were renting ⁓ one side of a duplex and directly next door was this huge shop factory with three units and ⁓ the middle unit opened up for rent. And so Yeah, I went in and and ⁓ talked to Bill, Bill Mulder, who's a really wonderful guy. And he was like, Yeah, you you know, we can rent it to you. I had I had my LLC by that time, so which was really important if you're trying to rent a ⁓ like a retail space. But ⁓ yeah, he said, Yeah, we could do that. It's a three three year contract. And so that was easily my biggest commitment at the time. I had called my dad and asked him about it. Should I you know, should I sign this lease, three year lease with a big commitment? And he said, Yeah, go for it. ⁓ you won't even notice. It'll just go it'll just go by so fast and and then we just we just re signed last month, for another three years. They they wanted to do five, but I like, ⁓ let's keep it to three. Let's see how we yeah, how where we're at in three more years. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. And so Yeah, and it worked out really well. We had ⁓ we had as soon as we as soon as we got into the shop, we had brought on this woman, Megan, and she helped me set up ⁓ she helped me set up payroll and I started doing interviews, which was kind of funny 'cause I had never I had worked in like management positions, but like you know, like valet where I was parking cars in Chicago. Yeah. Nothing like production. ⁓ and so That was a bit of a trial and error. ⁓ hiring people and having to let some people go 'cause they just weren't the right fit. ⁓ getting people trained up and then them realizing ⁓ I can't stand sewing all day long. so they take off, which which happens. but yeah, we got a really good crew right now. And ⁓ yeah, so it's part it's part of it. It's part of the ⁓ the difficulties of speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: running your own production facility. But ⁓ again, I think it's all worth it. And like we were saying, yeah, you know, overseas, even even domestic cut and sews can offer a bit better on the margins. But ⁓ it's never I mean it's never really been about that. It's always I've been like obsessed with fabrics and fabric properties and how they perform for a long time. ⁓ even before hiking the C T I was like I dove real real deep into hemp fabric. I've always loved hemp. And ⁓ yeah. So it's always the whole journey's been about making awesome clothes and then going out and testing it out and seeing how it works. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, I I I feel like I had seen an Alpha Direct sleeping bag like inner liner on a sleeping bag or a quilt, like just maybe recently or f like maybe six months ago. And I was like, ⁓ that would feel so good on on the inside of the bag, as opposed to like my skin sticking to everything all the time. so When you were saying like you started growing and getting getting people, what's the biggest headache w you know, for people who are listening, what's the biggest headache you found? I maybe you already alluded to it little bit, but when you're starting to grow your business and you're hiring staff, you know, you just kind of said like, you know, some people just realize I I just can't sew all day or this isn't for me, or maybe they're just not have a good work ethic. Like what were the what was the biggest headache ⁓ hiring hiring staff for the first time, especially just, you know, running your own business? speaker-1: ⁓ honestly the biggest headache was like being like, ⁓ we just gotta get staffed in here and so someone would come in and for an interview and you're like, ⁓ might maybe not the best fit, but we need we need someone, so let's hire ⁓ on. Yeah. And then you know, you go through two, three weeks with them and you're like, Yeah, they just aren't a good fit. And so Yeah. Yeah. Instead of yeah, not rushing it with with hiring people, especially if you're if your gut feelings like, yeah, this isn't gonna work. Cause then you you know, all you're doing is you're just kind of wasting money, wasting their time, wasting your time. ⁓ so, yeah. Once you have like an established team, obviously you can be a little bit more choosy with who you're gonna bring on now. ⁓ Yeah. We just had someone who's she's she's moving on, going to college, ⁓ out of town. And so she just put on a two weeks. She's she's been really great though. And so Yeah. He's like, ⁓ you can hire you can hire my friend. And I was like, Well, if we hire someone again, we're gonna definitely want ⁓ to have like ⁓ industrial sewing experience at this point. Yeah. So yeah. And training is fine. You you can train people ⁓ on machines, especially like a serger, that's definitely the the place to start with training. ⁓ an Alpha Direct surges up really easy. Like ⁓ an MYOG hoodie. Alpha Direct is it's easy to work with. ⁓ your hardest part is gonna be making a pattern. But ⁓ you can just copy a sweater that's really comfortable. ⁓ yeah. Try to think about the stretch. The stretch on alpha is a bit minimal and so you wanna add a little bit usually. But yeah. Tra training people on a surge is nice. It's a good way to start. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, when when you say like getting staff, I think if you're not really good at if you're if you're not a person, people person or you are, it's just you just don't have the heart to kind of let go people sometimes. It can be a detriment to you, right? 'Cause you hire somebody and then you're like, Man, I just can't have them on, but you just don't have the heart to let them go. I I had an assistant for a while and I just didn't have the heart to kind of let them go. And it was just like I was doing all the work at the the photo shoots I was doing and I was like, What are they you know, other than holding a light for me, I was like, what are they really doing here? They're not doing anything. They're not proactively doing anything. And then finally I was like, okay, listen, before I blow up, I'm gonna go ahead and like have a sit down and go, Hey, I you know, this is great. And but sometimes I think sometimes you can think as a business owner, you can kind of think, is it something that I'm doing instead of is it something that they're doing wrong? You know, like maybe I'm not training them properly. So you try again and you try again and then you go, wait, actually maybe it is them. Maybe I need to To let them go and let them go in a nice way, you know, but ⁓ but no, that's that's great insight in into into that the whole thing. ⁓ I guess going into the actual material and stuff itself, I see it all the time. I just we just had Ripstop by the roll on. We just had ⁓ Jameison from their marketing team just talking a little bit about materials and everything else. So when you started and you were kind of getting into material, were you like super nerding out on materials? ⁓ when you when you started or were you just like I know you kind of get in depth, right? So kinda run through like what your process was for you. Did you run through a bunch of different materials or did you just start right away with this? speaker-1: No, so yeah, Alpha Direct was pretty fresh on the market at the time, only since she was really doing it. ⁓ and I his name's Ryan and I think he was he was still doing all the production himself and stuff really small, limited batches that he was selling on Reddit. ⁓ and so I started selling stuff on Reddit too and it it worked out really well. I think for like number two as far as like involved with Alpha Direct in the cottage world, we Yeah. We were like ear we were early in the game and ⁓ which worked out really well 'cause there's a lot more a lot more companies now working with it because it's such a fantastic fabric. ⁓ Yeah. But yeah, I I ⁓ I initially worked with alpha ninety and sixty weight and at the time the one twenty weight was difficult to find. ⁓ and I didn't even I didn't even realize there was a one ninety weight, ⁓ which is nice as well. But Yeah. Yeah. Alpha. Alpha was it for at least the first two years. And then I found ⁓ T Jin Okta. and I tried working with Okta for a bit and it just wasn't performing as I had hoped. And so I kind of phased Okta out. We worked with it for a little while. ⁓ and and there's variants of Okta as well, but I think we worked with one that was similar to like a 90 weight alpha. And some people do like it 'cause they're in the face. It doesn't snag as easily. It's not okay so brutal. If like ⁓ if velcro touches it, it's not gonna absolutely destroy it like Alpha. Okay. ⁓ but yeah, the Octa what it what it what it really was for me is we've worked with Steven Zieber from Backpacking Light, and he does re real like scientific testing of fabric. So he'll do like thermal testing, he'll do wetting out testing. And he had told me that ⁓ he had told me that when alpha, if you completely wet out alpha and octa, by the time alpha is dry, octa is just starting to dry. And so that when he told me that I was like, okay, I I think ⁓ we're just we're just gonna cut octa out. ⁓ so And so for a while I I'm always looking for new fabrics. I love testing new fabrics. ⁓ usually jersey fabrics are the easiest to to test, different different merino blends, ⁓ different hemp blends. Yeah. ⁓ this actually what I'm wearing right here is Deadstock Appalachian Gear Company fabric. I had bought I think I bought it on on eBay and then I made my ⁓ I just cut it out of our out of our Alpha Cruiser. ⁓ and made yeah, you know, like a s a sun hood with it. It's a fantastic fabric. And I absolutely loved App Gear Co. when they were around. ⁓ yeah. And hopefully one day they do come back. I know I'd I had talked with the owner a little bit online. ⁓ but that that was proprietary technical fabric ⁓ that you don't really see. You see a lot of app ⁓ alpaca clothing, but it has a very like traditional looking weave. App Gearco was was a very technical ⁓ Yeah. speaker-0: I have yeah. I have like one of their son hoodies and then I have like a T shirt ⁓ that they had and I did my first couple of hikes or not my first couple of hikes, couple of hikes a few years ago in it and I was like, Man and then I was like, ⁓ they're gone. No. speaker-1: Yeah, I know. Like overnight too. It was real quiet. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's too bad. ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ but so I I just got back from what's it the North Cascades and hiking there and my friend he swears by like I always wear a sun hoodie kind of like you said, like I'm always fully covered. You know, you walk by people, it's it's funny as hikers, you know, there's tons of people that hike and they all have hot sun hoodies, but you see other people and they look at you and go, Why are you covered up? You must be so hot. But I don't think people realize like you were kind of talking about earlier the thermal properties. of Alpha Direct are so crazy that ⁓ I didn't even think about maybe I should have worn this out there even though it was like really, really, really hot. I I wore my like ultra really thin. ⁓ I don't even remember what what what the material was. It's just something I always always wear when I'm out there that I I always know. But kind of what are the temperature ranges of Alpha Direct for people who are listening who are not necessarily in the industry, but just people who love sun hoodies and stuff like that, who are like, ⁓ I didn't realize I can w can wear this in this type of temperature. speaker-1: Yeah, so Elfa actually I'd only recommend alpha for like colder weather, or like around camp. But as far as like ⁓ so like again, this is like definitely personal preference on temperatures. Like I run really hot so I can get away with like a fifty degree bag. ⁓ but yeah, alpha alpha's great for like a chilly morning start or if you're hanging at camp, you can wear it underneath your ⁓ your reindeer. A some people say it can, some people say it can't, but it can replace a ⁓ like a down jacket or a jacket. Yeah. Especially ⁓ do what's called a far point duo. So it's a two layer sixty GSM alpha hoodie. ⁓ we we make in a full zip or just just a hoodie version. That combined with a combined with a wing jacket definitely feels like a puffy. ⁓ the two layer again Steve Zieber actually he came up with the idea. He wanted me to make one for him. And sure enough he did thermal testing. He said it was by far like the best ⁓ warmth to weight ratio of an alpha garment because the two layers really trap heat between with the loft. And ⁓ it's been a it's been a big hit for really small batches of those a couple of times a year and they always sell really quick. ⁓ and for good reason they're they're fantastic garments. yeah. But for Sunware, initially, like on the CT, I had worn the Vormy River Run hoodie, which was at the time, I think it is, is one of the lightest at 100 DSM, it's one of the lightest merino blend. ⁓ sun jerseys you can find. It's a proprietary which I think a lot of their fabrics are. ⁓ The only one they're the only ones working with the fabric. They own the rights to the fabric. ⁓ unlike Alpha Direct, which is a Politech fabric, and anyone who ⁓ you reach out to Mill Direct and you can any Politech fabric from them. ⁓ But yeah, so I was wearing the Bornee River, which still is an awesome it's a sun sun jersey hoodie. At a hundred GSM. ⁓ which you you won't find a sun or you won't find a jersey fabric, at least a merino blend, that's a hundred PSM. You might find a fully synthetic, but I personally wouldn't I wouldn't wear fully synthetic jersey because when you start to sweat in it, it almost feels like a shower curtain. ⁓ a hundred per yeah, a hundred percent poly jersey. I I've just never been into it and ⁓ You I'm not throwing any shade. I know a lot of people work with a hundred percent jersey for sunwear. Yeah. And some of it can be really, really nice, but ⁓ I've made at least 40% merino involved with my sunwear. And so I had found a merino blend. My personal favorite blend is ninety percent merino, ten percent nylon. That's gonna give you the nylon's gonna give you durability and then you get all the benefits of the merino with ninety percent. Yeah. ⁓ and so I found some we were ordering it from New Zealand, but then when terra set in and some other costs, ⁓ we weren't able to really pick it up from there anymore. But ⁓ we've actually just been working with that we're gonna release ⁓ well we're gonna pick one of ⁓ and release a new sun wheel for next spring. And ⁓ I think we found a winner. It's at like a hundred twenty GSM. Really nice. ⁓ I'm about to send a couple out to a to a a couple of buddies that do a lot of like rock climbing and their full exposure in the sun. Yeah. How it holds up, but I'm pretty sure we found a good one. ⁓ but yeah so PolarTech does make a fabric called PowerWool. It comes in 150 GSM and then 100 GSM. And the Powerball 100 is also a really nice fabric. ⁓ we sell it in color red rock and a lemonade. But that's a really nice, very lightweight merino blend. It's actually yeah. It's unique. It's most fabrics are they blend they blend the ⁓ fabric content. But power wool is a synthetic face with a merino back. So it's a pretty easy design ⁓ and very creative of Polar Tech to make. Yeah. speaker-0: That's cool. I I I'm I'm gonna be doing some factory tours hopefully soon ⁓ on the pod ⁓ for video. We'll still do the audio version of it as well, but we're gonna be too in some ⁓ touring some ⁓ textile factories and everything. And I'm just so amazed by how they make certain materials. You know, like you said, like it's not woven together. It's like a backing and everything. did you ever run into other than that one time you kind of phased out that one material, you know, for People who are I guess this is more on a style side, maybe, but ⁓ now that we talked about the material, but do you find you have to keep up with a certain style? I know that trail styles especially change every once in a while. Are you more so changing material or are you looking at it and going, ⁓ I need to change the way that this is this fits this year versus other years? Like how how do you as a designer follow trends and stuff like that? speaker-1: So as as we've seen ⁓ as we've seen the rise of Alpha Direct, a lot of people the number one complaint is that Alpha it sheds a lot. ⁓ it does a lot of pilling and it can vary. I've seen it vary from roll to roll, even like between sixty and ninety, one twenty. The one ninety when we work with the one ninety weight, ⁓ when you're surgeon, I mean, this stuff is all over the place. So it is it is a messy fabric. And the biggest problem is that all of that shedding is just microplastics. It's a hundred percent polyester fabric, ⁓ which does really well for fleece. ⁓ as I said earlier, you know, not that good for sunwear, but fantastic for fleece. ⁓ Yeah. And and so for a while I've been looking for a solution, trying to figure out a way to ⁓ kind of deal with that. How c how can we as a community ⁓ you know, we love the outdoors, but this this new ultralight fabric is pretty much polluting. ⁓ how can we deal with that? And ⁓ I've been going to different ⁓ fabric trade shows over the years and I actually the fabric you're wearing is the one that ⁓ we just released in May. It's called Technol. And so it's a ⁓ it's different, it's not a Politech fabric. And it comes in three weights. I initially saw I I think I you pronounce it newer or guru ⁓ that really like hip hip brand out of port out of Portland. ⁓ they were working with like a 150 weights version of it. And then I got in touch with the mill that's that produces the fabric and they showed me that they had just started making a 60, a 90, and a 120 weight. And so then in May is when we did our initial release and all three weights. Yeah ⁓ which is pretty much what Alpha Direct. People almost everyone leans towards the 90 weight and for good reason. Yeah. It's great all around fabric. And so we did the initial release. we did exclusive wholesale with garage grown gear. ⁓ and we both saw excellent results. People seem to really love it. It's it's around forty. All three weights are they have different fabric content, but they're almost all of them are around 40% wool. and which around around 40% wool is when you really start to see the benefits of wool. It has the temperature regulation, especially in big swings. ⁓ if you're dealing with really hot and really cold temps throughout the day, it it regulates really well. ⁓ antimicrobial so especially for long distance trekking two, three weeks you could be wearing been wearing the techno wool and ⁓ it still feels and smells fresh when ⁓ yeah you know a hundred a hundred percent poly you can put it on it's gonna your body odor's gonna linger. which you know that happens but yeah. And then my my favorite part of the techno wool is that it has a four way stretch and so there's a stretch up and down and so You really feel it in the upper body, in the shoulders. ⁓ we're we're actually just about to start our second production and we're gonna offer camp pants this round. And so I've been I've I've been wearing some pants here at the cabin. ⁓ it still gets kind of crazy. It's still getting into the forties at night here. And ⁓ Yeah, I know, it's wild. ⁓ but the pants with with that four way stretch, they have a really, really nice fit. ⁓ speaker-0: Sweet. speaker-1: Yeah. And so yeah, we're we're gonna offer camp pants in the techno wool and ⁓ hoodies and crew necks. And it it sheds way less than ⁓ Alpha Direct and and Alpha Direct is still a fantastic fabric, especially if you're looking for the lightest and ⁓ it's hydrophobic. Techno wool due to the ⁓ due to the wool content, it does hold moisture a bit more. But ⁓ wet wool. still keeps you warm, which is nice. Yeah. ⁓ but yeah. And so there's a lot less shedding with it. ⁓ and I think as far as trends, ⁓ as far as the future of technical wear, I think a lot of it is moving towards blended fabrics rather than all synthetic. And ⁓ we're seeing a we're seeing some mills get really creative with their ⁓ with the designs, with their weaves. And ⁓ I I think the future of technical fabric is blended. ⁓ and so we'll we'll see how it goes. I know we do work directly with Polar Tech as well, and towards the end of the year they're releasing an alpha wool blend. ⁓ that's that's actually made for ⁓ standalone garment. There is like an alpha wool on the market right now, some Some of the smaller cottage companies are working with it. ⁓ but Politech said that that's that fabric was made specifically for like a liner and ⁓ like jackets and stuff. And so it's I know I know some people have seen success as far as making hoodies, but it ⁓ it definitely pills really hard. After two or three wears, you see all of it pilling quite a bit. And so we We work with it for hoodies and we used to make ⁓ fingerless gloves. ⁓ we never we never put it into production for hoodies. ⁓ we use it for beanies, I'm sorry. We've made it for beanie production for hoodies. ⁓ specifically because of the the ⁓ pilling problem it has. It's like it sheds way more than alpha. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so speaker-0: Okay. speaker-1: Politech also is addressing the the shedding issue. They're releasing an Alpha Direct two point ⁓ I think they said probably around the beginning of next year they're gonna release And we got they actually sent some of the fabric and we made a couple garments with it. ⁓ and it's it's really it's ⁓ there it there is a lot less shedding going on with it. And so ⁓ excited to see when that really rolled out into the market to see how the community responds to it. ⁓ it's it's a good fabric. So Yeah. speaker-0: No, that's cool. I like that you're you're not only innovating, but you're also looking at the future of materials. Cause I think a lot of people just kinda sit there and go, Okay, I'm gonna stay with this. And I I've met a lot of companies that they just stay with one thing and they never innovate it. They think it's done. And I think the people that are successful are those people who are like, Okay, I need to innovate this thing, or what what else is coming up next so that you can keep you're gonna also keep your customers. interested in what you're doing too. You know, it's not just yourself. It's like, hey, what what can I make better for my customer? And your customer realizes, hey, ⁓ he cares or she cares about what I'm making or what what my customers are wearing and stuff like that. So that's really that's really cool. So I guess now going into maybe an ⁓ crap moment for you, like was there a since you've had been going for the last few years now, what is like one big kind ⁓ crap moment you've had over the years that you can share with everybody? speaker-1: ⁓ so when we first went to the shop and started hiring people, I had I I hadn't taken out any loan. I I had done this all from just like doubling down on my money. ⁓ and and so, you know, I used to work I was working in a restaurant prior to starting Far Point and and then COVID hit and I got my COVID money. And that's when I bought a little bit of fabric with that. And so I've just been doubling down and and and never took out a business loan. And so by the time we hired on like four people to really step up production the first time, so like the first year in the shop, there was a few moments where it was like, ⁓ boy, like cash flow is getting tight as we're trying to finish a large, a large wholesale order, but we're going through payroll. And so there was a few of those. And so keeping an eye on cash flow can be ⁓ can be a difficult thing, especially in the early days of a business. speaker-0: Like, hey guys, ⁓ I'll buy pizza for you, but I can't pay your wages for the next two weeks until the gas flow comes back in. speaker-1: Yeah. Luck luckily that it didn't get to that point, but it like yeah, it got it got low and I was like, ⁓ buddy. And ⁓ Yeah. but when we when we decided that we were gonna roll out the techno wool fabric and and offer this whole new this whole new product line, ⁓ that's when I looked into getting my first business loan, ⁓ pretty much just to cover the expense of the of the techno wool. And ⁓ it was pretty funny. It was almost like my my business bank was like waiting for me to just ask them for money because I was like, hey, I need what to me seemed like a lot of money. And they're like, Yeah, no worries. And I was like, Do you want to see any paperwork or anything? Like, no, no, no, no. Here you go. It's in your it's in your account. And I was like, okay. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. And so yeah, I took out my first loan like late last year to to really start working with techno wall. And ⁓ yeah speaker-0: I feel like they're watching the your bank I get phone calls from my bank every once in a while and they're like, Hey, just wanna talk about your business and like, W what do you care? And then I I'm like ⁓ they see the money coming in, so they're like, Hey, we know that we can lend him money 'cause he's gonna definitely be able to pay it back, so speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, they definitely do. Yeah. speaker-0: So I think transitioning into how like you as an outdoors person now, I know you're recording at your cabin right now, so maybe that that's the answer to my question, but like what ⁓ what are some ways that you still stay connected to the outdoor industry now that you're running a company and you're busy looking after your employees and everything else? speaker-1: ⁓ so I I try to get outside every day for at least an hour. ⁓ even in the winter if it's raining, just get out there. ⁓ I do a lot of running, ⁓ especially trail running. I got my my little blue healer and so he he pretty much demands it as well. ⁓ yeah. And so getting outside, testing fabrics. ⁓ there's been a bunch, you know, there's been a handful of fabrics where I tested and we just never even rolled out into production because yeah, it just doesn't I like to think of like me as a consumer and if I'm not happy with it, then the community isn't gonna be happy with it. ⁓ and so trying to get out as much as possible. I love I love backpacking. Like this coming weekend I'm gonna do the Timberline. in August ⁓ couple good friends are coming out. We're gonna do Goat Rocks. I actually got a really big route in Goat Rocks planned. It's like a lollipop, so you'll go We'll go over Knife's Edge twice and my brother's gonna be with us and he likes the he likes the fish. So we'll stay at a couple of different lakes. ⁓ and so and then September, hopefully I'll do two weeks on the PCT southbound from Washington. ⁓ and so yeah, just just getting outside as much as possible. It's what it's what got me started in this and you never really want to lose sight of that. ⁓ I just love keeping under the stars, you know. So yeah. speaker-0: Do you think that I I I feel like most creative people like you have going outside really help like I was I just got back from a trip like I mentioned and I I feel like I have a hundred different ideas 'cause you have all that time on trail or when we just got to camp, we just sat there and looked at the mountains for I don't like three or four hours. And I never usually get that. Usually it's I get to camp and it's, you know, thirty minutes before it's pitch black outside, so I'm running and setting up my tent and I don't get to enjoy the views. I get to enjoy the views on the way there, but I don't get to enjoy the actual campsite. And I was like, ⁓ we get to enjoy this this space. So do you f do you feel like you come up with a lot of ideas ⁓ on trail by connecting on the outdoor outdoors when you go out? speaker-1: No, funny enough, ⁓ when I'm on trail I try not to think at all about business or cap capitalism and ⁓ Yeah I'll yeah, I I really like you said, I'll just just take in the scenery and just kinda relax and try to try to decompress actually and ⁓ but I guess I guess yeah, you your creative mind does get going and ⁓ you know we we started well, we haven't really started making It's like an Alpha Argon overbag. ⁓ but I would do a lot of shoulder season hiking and you'd wake up in your sleeping bag soaking wet no matter what. And ⁓ and I came I wanted to start making this overbag to kind of absorb all that moisture and take the you know, take care of that. And ⁓ I had seen Timmermaid was making one and I think I think Timmermaid's a really amazing cottage brand. He does some really, really cool innovative stuff. and and so I made a couple for me and my buddy for ⁓ winter hiking and they're they're just fantastic. It's a great it's a great product. ⁓ I'm thinking about releasing it. Maybe I'm not sure. It's definitely been on my mind, but ⁓ yeah. Expanding in expanding into non stretch nylons has been an idea for a little bit. ⁓ a wind jack is the overbag. ⁓ Yeah, there there's some cool products out there, but yeah. speaker-0: That's cool. I like that you're thinking you're thinking future, which is which is awesome. And I think I like the fact that you said when you go out on the trail, you're like, hey, I'm not actually thinking. I'm trying to disconnect from everything so you can decompress. So when you do come back, you're fresh instead of just your brain keeps going and then you realize, ⁓ I didn't get to enjoy the thing that started the company in the first place, you know, the outdoors. So that's cool. what's what I guess the last question before we go into our kind of lightning round, what's some like very unique spots that you've maybe seen your product since you've you know, since your business has been open, have you seen it like the most random thing you can think of that you've seen your product, or maybe a great customer story that that really stood out to you? speaker-1: ⁓ I seen it on the timber line a few times. I I usually do the timberline like four times a year, ⁓ with different different routes, different speeds. yeah. So it's it's fun seeing it out there, which is probably one of my favorite Oregon hikes. One of the one of the craziest times I saw one of our products. I was hiking down on the Illinois River, which is down in the Kalmeopsis wilderness. It's very rugged. very ⁓ isolated kind of area and I've been down there over I don't know almost two dozen times over the years. I've never seen anyone on trail. And ⁓ me and a buddy are down there and we see this one dude and he's got this huge pack and it was a ⁓ it was like a raft pack. He had like a blow up raft with him. And We stopped and we're talking to him and he's heading towards a river that we just decided not to cross because it was way too deep and absolutely freezing cold. And my buddy's like my buddy's like, That river's gonna kill me. I can't get in there. And I was like, Yeah, let's let's just let's turn around, we'll figure out a different route. And ⁓ we run into this guy and he's heading toward that river and we talk to him for a bit and then he's like, Hey, aren't you at the end of it, he's like, Aren't you the far point guy? And I was like, Yeah, I am that's still That's crazy. And he's like, Yeah, I just bought one of your one twenty alpha hoodies and I mean it was the one and only time I ever seen someone on this trail and ⁓ he he recognized me and that was kinda cool. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: That's awesome. ⁓ that's cool. That makes you feel like Yeah. It makes you feel like a million bucks when you're like, ⁓ they recognize the product and the person behind it. And of all the things to see that random dude on the trail, you're like, what? I don't see anybody. And the one guy that I see on the trail is like, hey, I know you from somewhere. That's awesome. That's really cool. Well, I mean, Joe, thank you so much. I mean, I learned so much about I mean Far Point. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: material wise, I learned it, I learned a ton too, but just the process of it and everything else is great to see that you guys are growing and the future looks really good. ⁓ and I'm sure people are who are listening who are like into the outdoors, not just companies, they're probably going, I can't wait to get whatever he's about to come out with. So ⁓ I'm sure if they have any suggestions, they'll probably DM you on Instagram or shoot you an email. You probably get suggestions all the time, I would think, right? speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ we do actually and and I always appreciate it. Even from like, yeah, hey you should make this this little change on your website to make it easier to understand or you know, here's a fabric that ⁓ I think would be really awesome or or this or that product. I I always love any feedback, any suggestions. ⁓ Yeah. I always try I try my best to respond personally to ⁓ most of that stuff. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, if if anybody's looking for Far Point, ⁓ where can where can they find Far Point and get some gear? speaker-1: ⁓ our our biggest partner is Garage Grown Gear. We've been working with them from the start. long standing relationship with them. They're fantastic. ⁓ and then overseas, there's a couple couple companies, far lights. We're about to start working with Outdoor Line UK, I believe. And then ⁓ Yeah, there's Ults or what is it? ⁓ Pod Kilo 7. That's a UK company as well. I know. I know importing to the UK can be really ⁓ kind of a nightmare as far as as tariffs and all these different costs. So we try to work with ⁓ different companies around the world to to try to help with that. So speaker-0: Yeah. Awesome. Perfect. Yeah. Well, we'll we're gonna run right into the rapid fire round. just to get to know you a little bit more. I think you love the Timberline Trail. I know that for for a fact. So let's go first into your favorite national park. speaker-1: ⁓ I'd say up in the Olympic Peninsula, I don't know I think it is just the the Olympic peninsula, but I love it up there. ⁓ bef before I got my dog because dogs aren't allowed, but I was doing ⁓ a really big route up there a couple of times a year. ⁓ and it was it's just yeah. The Olympic Peninsula is unbelievable. Feels very ancient. Yeah. I always hike the southern section with the ⁓ What is that river? I can't remember now. ⁓ but I I've never been on the north, which I know is the more popular side. ⁓ yeah, I would do these. speaker-0: That's the only side I've ever been on is the north side of that, so speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Which is gorgeous. I think I actually was out there one time, but yeah, doing these like fifty mile loops on the southern side, ⁓ that puts you up on these like primitive ridge trails, back down to the river, back up where we pass it. Yes. It's ⁓ just unbelievable. It's wonderful. speaker-0: That's awesome. All right. Next question is ⁓ mountains, coast, trees, or desert? speaker-1: I my f hands down my favorite type of trail is gonna be a ridge trail. ⁓ and so I I just love being up in the mountains. If I could hike a ridge all day long, that's yeah, that would be the way. Yeah. speaker-0: It's so cool to be up on the ridge and just it's a completely different view. I I there's one trail I want to do. I can't remember what it is, but it's over in ⁓ Italy that I I can't wait to go back and and do that I kind of found the trail when I was out there with my wife. We didn't end going up because we're having such a great time at the cabin that we got with the hot tub and the sauna and everything. And I was like, Okay, we'll we'll do it another time. So no, I hear ya. And the the trip I went on, we were supposed to be on the ridge for most of The last two thirds of it were mostly on the ridge and we just ended up having to to tweak that trip because of the storms. But that's cool. All right. Next is what's your favorite trail snack? speaker-1: ⁓ probably peanut butter ⁓ and M's. ⁓ you just can't beat ⁓ Okay. They don't melt. You know, they're they're just yeah, they're awesome. I love peanut butter Ms. Okay. Yeah. speaker-0: And what's your worst trail snack you ever tried? speaker-1: ⁓ man, I can't do cliff bars anymore. ⁓ there's they got really gross. ⁓ and there was something else. I can't remember what was it. ⁓ I just ate it way too much on trail and I'm like, ⁓ this is so gross now. Yeah. I can't remember. On on the C. Just before we got on speaker-0: I was eating like I I I eat these all the time. ⁓ they'll get breakfast. I them on trail. But I was like trying to have one before because they're they're ⁓ these are out of date. So I was like, okay, I need to eat these before I have to throw them out and I got five more left. So I'm eating it before we got on with you, and I was like, ⁓ I don't like it right now. I was like, maybe I just need to be on trail for it to taste for it to taste good. ⁓ not saying, not saying that pro meal Bars are bad. I'm just saying I just didn't want it right now. Okay. First. Yeah. I just go out in the backyard and run around the house a few times and I'll just be like super stoked to eat one. ⁓ all right. Next is ⁓ if you could collab with any brand, who would it be and why? speaker-1: No, yeah. ⁓ man. Maybe someone who's working with like sleeping bags or something because I'd love to I'd love to really roll out that ⁓ the overbag. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, and I think it'd be r it'd be really fun working with someone who's already got experience with that kind of stuff. ⁓ yeah. The few I made were kind of you know, kind of a pain in the butt, but ⁓ they turned out good. But yeah, a sleeping bag company would be awesome. Might maybe ⁓ Feathered Friends or ⁓ Western Mountaineering, ⁓ I love those guys. ⁓ yeah. That would be awesome. speaker-0: That's awesome. ⁓ what's one of the biggest ⁓ purchases you ever made for your business? speaker-1: Biggest purchase. ⁓ man. Some of our fabric orders, they've been really expensive. And ⁓ never in my life did I think I'd be spending that kind of money. But here we are. And yeah. So yeah, fabric fabric throughout twenty twenty six has been easily the biggest ⁓ the biggest thing I've ever purchased. So Yeah. speaker-0: That's crazy. It's and and it's only gonna get bigger, right? You're gonna look back and be like, Man, I said that and then I two years later you're gonna be like, Man, look, I bought four times as much as I did last time. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: what's one word your team would use to best describe you? speaker-1: ⁓ I hopefully ⁓ patient would be nice. I I'd hope they say he's a patient, ⁓ he's a kind boss. I try to be, you know, I I think we've all had jobs where your boss is an absolute maniac and you're like, Man, this this guy would be so much better if he wasn't screaming at people or whatever. And ⁓ I I really try to be the boss that I would want. ⁓ so I try to be very understanding. You know, I I you gotta be firm and like we said earlier, it's strictly business if you gotta let somebody go. ⁓ yeah. But I'll always I'll always be kind and I'll I would never I would never yell at someone. I would never I would never like ask rhetorical questions like, Well, why'd you do that? you know, and yeah. Yeah. Treat people with respect. It's it's very important. It goes a long way. Yeah. speaker-0: That's cool. That's almost you just gave me some good parenting advice right there too for my kids. I should stop doing the rhetorical question thing. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: No, they won't. well awesome. I mean Joe, thank you so much for being on. Everybody, thank you so much for listening to be on the trailhead again this week and we look forward to seeing everybody out on the trail and enjoy the Timberline Trail. ⁓ next week, Joe, you're gonna have a blast.