Latest / The Other 22 Hours / Low Cut Connie on front-facing data, the two things that last, and a good schvitz.

Transcript

Low Cut Connie on front-facing data, the two things that last, and a good schvitz. · The Other 22 Hours

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: that what gets me up in the morning, if that person sold this many tickets, and I sold that many tickets.
0:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the people I know in this industry, and wish sometimes I could hug people and be like, you're doing great.
0:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You put no good songs, people are coming to your shows, don't be so stressed, try to enjoy it.
0:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We often define artists by their output, their records, books, movies, and the times they're on stage.
0:28
[SPEAKER_00]: But the art is made in the quiet, the struggle, and the mundane, the hours that no one sees.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm McKayla Ann.
0:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Aaron Kaffer-Hase.
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the other 22 hours.
0:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The exploration of the creative life lived in between.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Today we feature our conversation with the singer, a songwriter, Adam Weiner, who has been releasing records independently for over 25 years.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And since 2010 has been performing under the moniker, the rock and roll band, Locut Connie.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: He has been outside of the traditional record industry for his entire career.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And on top of performing it, all of the major festivals such as Newport and Bonnaroo, he can count public support
1:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Bruce Springsteen and Rob Thomas of Matchbox 20.
1:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And this conversation, I came away feeling so grounded.
1:33
[SPEAKER_00]: He's had the kind of reverse cycle that many musicians would have where his cynicism has decreased the longer he's been in the business of sharing his music.
1:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just a really beautiful conversation about focusing on the feeling that we get from music and we give from music.
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: it's a heart-driven episode over a head-driven episode.
1:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have to say definitely.
1:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Please enjoy our conversation with Adam Weener with Lil' Cut Connie.
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But we like to always start the conversation the same way every time with how are you?
2:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a how are you really?
2:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And where are you physically and creatively?
2:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Whoa, that's heavy.
2:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I can skip therapy this week.
2:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing good.
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm having a good day.
2:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I got up really early.
2:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I went for a job.
2:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a good schvitzel on.
2:29
[SPEAKER_02]: and I've gotten so much work done today.
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is my little vacation getting to talk to you guys.
2:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, good.
2:36
[SPEAKER_02]: In general, like everyone I know, there's just a running pile of stress and existential dread.
2:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Every day that isn't just about the music business, that's about the world, it's about my family, it's about my friends, it's about health, it's about the state of the world in the future.
2:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And I no longer have any ability to like a scape, but running, feeling of dread.
3:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I can like rise above it with the work I'm doing and stuff, but it's just gonna be there.
3:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel lucky that I have a job that makes me feel useful in the world in some regard.
3:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm lucky that I have a lot of gigs and I'm very busy and there's a lot going on.
3:20
[SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
3:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you had asked me maybe a week ago, I might have been a little more pessimistic but today I'm feeling pretty good.
3:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
3:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
3:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I get that the perpetual seesaw of the whole thing.
3:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, as I was preparing for this and listening to your new record and your the way that you've posted about your new music of that it's a protest, but a party album of like things are fucked and we need to protest them, but we also don't want our joy to be stolen from us.
3:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so tricky because I often feel this ping-pong of, I just open my phone and it's like a researcher just quit and the sounding the alarm that anthropic and open AI are like doing things that are like showing them that they will have human extinction in the next decade.
4:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And like,
4:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and now I'm gonna like go make our two-year-old lunch, like not to mention the host of other horrific things that you just consume on a daily basis in your phone, but then I feel like there's these voices sometimes that are like, yeah But things have always been bad look on the bright side and you're okay and be grateful for today And I'm like, yeah, but it feels like this constant ping pong and if we look too much on the bright side I feel like we should be running in the streets
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: sounding the alarm of how terrible some stuff is.
4:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So where do you stand on that and how you then metabolize that into your music as well?
4:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I am a realist.
4:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I am neither an optimist nor a pessimist.
4:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I am surrounded by people who generally fall into one of the two categories, Optimus or Pesumist.
5:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've never been particularly optimistic about the future.
5:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Neither have I ever woken up feeling like this is the end of the world of me know it.
5:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sort of happy that I'm a realist by nature.
5:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty disposed that way.
5:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Even with my self and my career, really good things happen, I have trouble feeling really great about them, but also when really bad things happen, I don't put my head in the oven.
5:26
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm like, this was another day at the office.
5:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Today was pretty good.
5:32
[SPEAKER_02]: High five, tomorrow's another day, though.
5:35
[SPEAKER_02]: today was a rough day.
5:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what's going to happen, but tomorrow's another day.
5:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm kind of like that with everything.
5:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that we have great reason for alarm on so many different fronts.
5:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have kids, but my friends and family members were raising kids.
5:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I talk to them all the time and I just feel deeply concerned about the world that we're raising our kids and handing
6:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I also am mindful when I talk to people of where we've come from and I read a lot and watch a lot of films from a long time ago that put in perspective how bad this country used to be in all these different ways and we are backsliding but we have come a long way and so I feel pretty energized actually to continue to fight for the gains that we've already gotten.
6:32
[SPEAKER_02]: maybe go get some more.
6:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's my age because I'm not young anymore.
6:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And everything that you said about our phones, phones, and social media are still a novel to you to me because I didn't have a cell phone until I was 23 or 24.
6:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm on it more than I would like, but I still see it as new and I still see it as not my entire existence.
6:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I have the benefit of getting a go out on stage so many nights, making people feel good, helping people process their stress, grief and dread, and then releasing them back into the world a little more energized, and then energizes me.
7:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm also doing this work with my upcoming tour.
7:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm working with the Garciss Foundation, which is based here in Philadelphia, but is now a national foundation and they are providing educational and health resources for immigrants.
7:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
7:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
7:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're doing a mislanguage classes.
7:33
[SPEAKER_02]: They're helping council how to navigate this crazy immigration process.
7:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But also connecting for free dental care or health care family resources, the Garciss Foundation.
7:46
[SPEAKER_02]: The other organization I've been working with a couple years is called the Western State Center.
7:51
[SPEAKER_02]: They are based in the Pacific Northwest, but they're also become a national organization.
7:57
[SPEAKER_02]: They do a number of things, but the centerpiece is preparing what I'll call third spaces.
8:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So that could be music venues, bars, restaurants, record store, any place where people gather.
8:10
[SPEAKER_02]: public, right?
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Preparing them for how to deal with the realities of 2026 bad actors.
8:18
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you deal with ice rates?
8:20
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you prepare for ice rates?
8:21
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you prepare for white supremacy groups to come into your club?
8:26
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you prepare for guns to come into your place?
8:30
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you prepare for online doxing and toxic behavior, bomb threats like
8:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You name it all the things that we have to worry about.
8:38
[SPEAKER_02]: They work with third spaces to prepare its free resources and it's so that we can continue to have safe places to gather around art.
8:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And we don't let bad actors make us feel to intimidate it to gather in public.
8:57
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the Western State Center.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I've done work with them.
9:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a while, but I've been a part of multiple cohorts.
9:03
[SPEAKER_00]: One was like a musician cohort that was trying to build almost like a manual to support artists who want to.
9:11
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
9:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, feel braver to share values through shows, music art platforms and kind of guidelines and help.
9:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things I almost brought them up earlier because when you were talking about like in community.
9:26
[SPEAKER_00]: They often would talk about how it's so much easier to be brave to stand up for causes and things that you believe in when you have community around you and you're not alone.
9:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've mentioned Eric Ward, who's no longer the director, but was the director of Western State Center when I was doing work with them because he's just a profoundly inspirational person that I still am thankful to call it to your friend, but he said,
9:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Artists are so invaluable to social change because artists have the ability to imagine a new future.
9:58
[SPEAKER_00]: That sticks with me all the time and just, yeah, this makes sense that you work with them.
10:03
[SPEAKER_02]: This is really funny.
10:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I was doing some work with them and then something bad happened to me last year.
10:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I started getting a lot of death threats and threatening messages and stuff.
10:17
[SPEAKER_02]: because of things that I was saying and my canceling my show at the Kennedy Center and putting out an anti-Isong.
10:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Having already become friends with them, I then needed their services.
10:30
[SPEAKER_02]: They helped me figure out how to keep going, doing the things I was doing, but stay safe while I was doing it.
10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: They reminded me that there's a community out there of people who are like, we've got you.
10:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We've gone through this and worse.
10:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you're gonna be okay and don't shy away from what you're doing.
10:49
[SPEAKER_02]: That feels good.
10:50
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels good to be amongst people who were doing even more than me being very impactful and just lending my voice and support to what they're doing.
10:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes me feel good.
11:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel as pessimistic as I feel about our political, economic, and in many ways cultural future.
11:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I also feel kind of energized because I feel like part is one of the only things that's going to move us forward.
11:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I set this in my mission statement that I put out early this year that has traveled pretty far that statement.
11:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Big tech is not going to save us.
11:25
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not our friends.
11:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, a lot of the music business is big tech now.
11:31
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not our pals.
11:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're not really focused on art.
11:35
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to save us the people that own and run the platforms that we're using, communicating with each other.
11:41
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not our pals.
11:43
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not operating with a moral compass and our political systems kind of collapsing on all sides.
11:51
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just not working.
11:52
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to save us.
11:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So we kind of got to do it ourselves and I feel lucky that I have a job where I can write songs and put shows on and it can be impactful in some way.
12:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I simply, I've used this year to try to push and call on other artists of all different media to do the same.
12:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever that means to you, try to make yourself useful.
12:17
[SPEAKER_02]: In the past, maybe I didn't do enough and now I'm trying to do as much as I can.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this awareness of your greater power or greater purpose as an artist, whether that's stepping on stage and giving the audience permission to feel how they need to feel or to step into their joy or like go of their burdens from the day and release them back happier like you were saying,
12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: or this platform that you have and the ability to create community as a public facing failure.
12:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this something you've always been aware of or is this something that you've stepped into as your career has progressed?
12:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really increased.
12:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been doing this a long time.
12:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been touring and putting out music for 25 years.
13:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And the first 10 years of it, I had no success.
13:06
[SPEAKER_02]: didn't really have a lot of fans, but I did it.
13:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of at that very, very bottom of the food chain for music.
13:13
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a piano player in New York City on the gay bar circuit.
13:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I played piano in a lot of different gay and drag bars, tying restaurants, ballet classes, all that stuff.
13:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when I started touring, which I did at that level for years, I was playing the diviest bar, so you can possibly imagine.
13:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Anybody that would have me, hostile audiences.
13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And not just in the U.S. overseas, and I was kind of addicted to playing in the most hostile situations.
13:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I developed a tough alligator skin that I had to as a performer.
13:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw cultures of every state in America and all over Europe and elsewhere, see how people live.
13:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't depressing, but I did have a very cynical attitude.
14:04
[SPEAKER_02]: In the last 15 years, things have happened for me, I've had some success, and this crazy thing happened that all of a sudden, a lot of people likes my music and started coming to my shows, and it had a very positive ring about it.
14:19
[SPEAKER_02]: not hostile audiences, beautiful, accepting people come to my shows and make friends with each other and say, want to you join my book club or want to you join, you know, couples would meet and they come back five years later and say, we got married and then they come to years later and they say, we had a kid and we met at your show and my very, very cynical
14:41
[SPEAKER_02]: cynical New Jersey, his stuff, Gallo's humor, self, slowly became a little bit less cynical and a little bit more hopeful.
14:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I take my job really seriously and the fact that these folks get so much from it means that I approach it with both seriousness and the responsibility for giving them what they need.
15:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And people need positivity, people need to feel good.
15:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I just opt to do it with a dose of reality, meaning I come out on stage and say, how you've been feeling lately, and people say, shitty, I feel depressed.
15:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel stressed, I'm scared, I'm worried, and I'm soon to work through it.
15:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have a lot of songs that pull no punches about what's going on in the world and how people are living, but by the end, we are ecstatic.
15:33
[SPEAKER_02]: not from a place of escapism, but from an elevated place because we've processed things together and that feeling of togetherness really elevates people's spirits.
15:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've become a little bit more a positive-natured person over these years who are doing this job that makes sense.
15:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That's beautiful.
15:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like the opposite of most, what happens?
15:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like, you've become more positive, more optimistic.
16:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Less than it go.
16:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Wild.
16:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You found the magical spring.
16:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Most people, a lot of people and a lot of friends with mine, they get so beaten down by the music business.
16:13
[SPEAKER_02]: The music business has not been my friend, but after having zero success in my 20s and early 30s,
16:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And then finding success, especially my middle to late 30s and now I'm in my 40s, but doing it by routing around the music business.
16:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I have no feelings about the music business now.
16:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Never really gave me a break.
16:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not imbittered.
16:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know it's not really my friend either.
16:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of artists carry bitterness with them and cynicism because they're working in the music business every day.
16:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do understand that, but I run my own label so I don't have to be pissed off at the people that signed me who aren't doing enough.
16:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I am the CEO essentially of my career, so I don't have to be pissed off at the manager that's not doing enough.
17:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I employ people that I like and trust.
17:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I go about my business in a very DIY way.
17:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, Spotify and Apple and all these platforms, it's never been the driver of my career.
17:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't feel enslaved to those platforms.
17:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And if they collapse tomorrow, I wouldn't cry.
17:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also know a lot of people make their living through it, so I'm not necessarily wishing for it to collapse.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I just kind of do my own thing, and it is a rare case where I am less cynical now than I was when I started in this business for sure.
17:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Listening to what you were saying, so it interesting to me because, well, one, backing up even more, you talking about,
17:48
[SPEAKER_00]: how your shows and your music and you are this catalyst for all of these networks of community that build and relationships.
17:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It made me feel emotional because it's just such a beautiful thing to really stop and think about that of the centerpiece.
18:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Your decision to go out and play shitty gigs like led you to this place where you get to bring people together.
18:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think
18:12
[SPEAKER_00]: one of the things like the kind of coping mechanisms or practices that I find helpful when I get pulled into a lot of negative stuff is really looking at that type of thread work, that fabric, that gets sewn together, and really look at it with such awe of just like how miraculous this is.
18:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just want to honor that of what you shared.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a step further when you talked about you don't really operate in the music business, but you are music and you are a business.
18:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you are the music business, and sometimes I think for musicians who are embedded even when I can think of friends or even myself at different times, even when we are doing our own thing.
18:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more emotional, psychological, spiritual if we're still looking to that entity, whatever we think of as the industry or the business or some scene.
19:05
[SPEAKER_00]: for validation of like sure I'm building my thing and I'm selling tickets in this place or whatever, but I just wish that I would get nominated for a Grammy or I just wish I was in the club enough that they would want me and I think that's such an individual process of whether you're vying for that or not regardless of what you build.
19:25
[SPEAKER_02]: They say everything is high school and when I think back when I was young, I was never one of the most popular kids.
19:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I got bullied a lot.
19:34
[SPEAKER_02]: My last name is Weiner.
19:36
[SPEAKER_02]: A Weiner.
19:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Come on, Miss.
19:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Come on.
19:40
[SPEAKER_02]: A damn Weiner.
19:41
[SPEAKER_02]: That ain't no joke.
19:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me tell you.
19:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I did later, make a lot of friends through art, through playing in bands, being in plays, photography, poetry, I started the Gaystrait Alliance Club at our high school, but I was never popular.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's put it that way.
19:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I also had no desire to be popular.
20:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I was never envious of the cool kids.
20:04
[SPEAKER_02]: nor was I embittered or have an axe to grind with the popular people.
20:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of them were really nice to me.
20:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I always felt like I just wanted to do my own thing to be around artsy people, but also like being alone too.
20:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And the same thing is true now.
20:22
[SPEAKER_02]: The industry lets me in that quote unquote club sometimes in certain ways.
20:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm not in a click.
20:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really in a scene.
20:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I live in Philadelphia, which I love.
20:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like Nashville or LA or New York, but it's this extremely competitive music industry town.
20:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not.
20:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really like part of a music scene where I feel in competition with anybody here locally at all.
20:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't feel in competition with other artists.
20:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't.
20:53
[SPEAKER_02]: My song gets on the radio.
20:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy.
20:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Other people get on the radio.
20:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Good for them.
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's a good song, I'm happy for them.
21:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think some people have advantages of being on a label or a big label or a big management thing or being in some proximity to some scene or whatever and that may help them.
21:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not bitter about that.
21:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I could move to Nashville and maybe that would help bike for everybody.
21:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to.
21:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not in it for that kind of comparative validation.
21:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't mean a lot to me.
21:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not what gets me up in the morning.
21:26
[SPEAKER_02]: If that person sold this many tickets, and I sold that many tickets.
21:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the people I know in this industry, I wish I could hug them.
21:34
[SPEAKER_02]: We always, it's so challenging, artists to artists to have these moments, and actually become friends.
21:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really hard.
21:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish sometimes I could hug people and be like,
21:42
[SPEAKER_02]: You're doing great.
21:44
[SPEAKER_02]: You put no good songs, people are coming to your shows.
21:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't be so stressed.
21:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Try to enjoy it.
21:49
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
21:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people I know get a little too fixated on it and they get mad at themselves for not achieving enough or you achieve that and then you're like, well, what next?
22:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm hungry.
22:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm ambitious, but maybe it's my age or something.
22:07
[SPEAKER_02]: The amount of followers or likes I have on something digitally is really not gonna determine my emotional state.
22:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
22:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it'd be more successful if I obsessed over that stuff, but I don't.
22:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think obsessing over at determines how successful you are.
22:26
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think.
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like I think it just determines your mental well-being.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey just a quick pause from this conversation.
22:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The other 22 hours is an independent production built entirely on the idea that he's quiet on his conversations matter.
22:42
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22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a small action that may save massive difference for us.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for being here.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get back to our conversation.
23:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you in the decades that I've been doing this, the worst thing that's ever happened in the music business.
23:07
[SPEAKER_02]: In my opinion, because people will say streaming, destroyed the record business, and in some ways it did, but what we have prior to that wasn't really great, either people like to talk about the past, like it was all glory or something.
23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It kind of wasn't, you know.
23:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I have no allegiance to streaming, and if it collapsed tomorrow, I'd be happy, but the next thing that'll come along won't be that great either.
23:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It won't be a level playing field.
23:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But the worst thing that has happened, not just from streaming, but from the last 20 years that has changed our
23:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
23:48
[SPEAKER_02]: The fact that you see the number of views on YouTube, the number of followers and streams on streaming, the followers on Instagram, TikTok, whatever, everything has a number attached to it.
24:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone sees it, whether you intentionally do it or not, everybody applies value.
24:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
24:09
[SPEAKER_02]: commensurate with numbers and those numbers generally are bullshit.
24:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not an organic system.
24:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It never really was and it's the perception of virality that makes people believe things are better than they are or when bad stories go viral, they think it's worse than it is and it's
24:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing wrong with marketing.
24:35
[SPEAKER_02]: There's been marketing in the music business for a hundred years, but it's actually affected our culture and how we see each other.
24:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Literally the first question you get.
24:44
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll say, have you heard of that artist that banned?
24:47
[SPEAKER_02]: There could.
24:48
[SPEAKER_02]: They have 300,000 powers and we're gonna do it.
24:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm older.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like, is there music good?
24:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there show good?
24:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they a cool person?
24:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
25:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, they have like three million.
25:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean anything to me.
25:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it really means a lot to most people, especially younger people.
25:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's been very detrimental to music and the culture of music.
25:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I gave up Spotify years ago at this point, not that anyone is really that much better than the other.
25:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I've used Apple Music for a long time, but one thing I really loved about Apple Music is that there's no data points to stare at on the screen.
25:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so there's been bands that I found that I'm like,
25:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, you got to check out this band of so cool and like little everybody was like, yeah, dude, they're massive and I'm like, that no idea, you know, and conversely there's been bands that I found that I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, so and so they're like, who, you know, and I have no idea if they have 10 monthly listeners or a million, even me, you know, and myself identity of like, I'm a musician's musician.
25:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the deep cut.
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I came up in the music industry, same as you playing in Italian restaurants in Brooklyn.
25:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And we did that together.
25:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, we did that together.
25:56
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like a hundred bucks on a bowl of spaghetti.
25:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, somehow that's good.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Somehow living in New York City and being on tour for four weeks in a five-person ban, we come back with like 50 bucks each in our pocket and somehow we existed in New York City with that.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
26:10
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, I am by far the oldest person in my whole organization, right?
26:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And my band members, most of them are 10 to 15 years younger than me.
26:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And my crew are like 20 plus years younger than me.
26:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have these discussions.
26:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And I talk about how I we toured with an Atlas.
26:32
[SPEAKER_02]: but the main thing, and I think this is a big part of why it took me so long to find an audience.
26:38
[SPEAKER_02]: The generation that I come from and maybe it was just me and my friends, but we didn't pursue music to be famous or to make money and did it to do it.
26:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But really no good reason.
26:51
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, if I did a show,
26:53
[SPEAKER_02]: whether it was in a Italian restaurant, a gay bar, or a diving bar, whatever it was, and there was 10 people there, 10 strangers, and five out of those 10 people enjoyed it, I would be high for like two days afterwards.
27:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
27:08
[SPEAKER_02]: If I did a show for 10 strangers in a bomb, it would bother me to know ends, until I could do another show there and fix it.
27:19
[SPEAKER_02]: The quest of being an artist and being as great a performer as I could be, writing as good as long as I could do, putting out music is such a thrill.
27:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It truly didn't matter if it was ten people or a thousand people.
27:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I never played
27:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I ever played for more than 100 people in my 20s.
27:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I played to 100 people and I killed, that would have been the peak for me.
27:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if I could financially survive at that level, I would have been happy like that forever, I think.
27:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Things have worked out so that I performed the thousands and sometimes tens of thousands of people now.
27:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't get any more enjoyment because it's that much more people.
28:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm aware that like, my career could go down and I could be back to plan to 50 people in the eight
28:09
[SPEAKER_02]: like I want to survive doing it and make a living and make as big an impact as I can.
28:14
[SPEAKER_02]: But the motivation part, why I got into it in the first place, and nothing to do with money, fame, or validation.
28:22
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why these social media platforms, I use them and I have done some things I'm proud of on them, or it was, but I'm not.
28:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I have no allegiance to the platform.
28:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and talking about the forward facing data and how I do think that from a sociologist standpoint, I'm sure there's going to be studies and research of over time, like how this has changed the way that we perceive each other ourselves, how we also experience art, so like thinking about
28:54
[SPEAKER_00]: what it is to perform in a loud restaurant to ten people and try to get connection with five of them.
29:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a different experience than making a video of yourself and posting it on your phone and staring at this little screen and watching the numbers and checking back and seeing if the numbers have gone up and did you get a comment and that
29:18
[SPEAKER_00]: informing.
29:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a slot machine.
29:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just trying to then give you a buzz or not and it's designed to be like a slot machine and create that addiction.
29:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not healthy and then it changes the purest of us.
29:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still is so pervasive that it can change our motivations or our thoughts.
29:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I will catch myself being like, oh, I should post something on Instagram.
29:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I should
29:47
[SPEAKER_00]: The whole song doesn't fit on the video.
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
29:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You get 30 seconds.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You get a verse.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Just the best line of the chorus.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: This is so fucked up.
29:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we're over time.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It degrades our ability to even listen to a four minute song because we're like, no.
30:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We only consume a chorus.
30:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the main thing is that it takes people having conversations like this and artists, being like, let's be in person and people craving that human to human experience and connection and not just going with the tide.
30:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I think constantly of what's the little kid movie that we watch with Georgia of,
30:30
[SPEAKER_00]: the alien and the robot and like everybody's overweight and getting spun around.
30:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Wally?
30:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Wally.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Wally.
30:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, if we're not careful, we are going to be all those people in Wally, just drinking soda, camp moves.
30:48
[SPEAKER_00]: We're in a bit of funnier, wow.
30:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's the thing, I put out music before there was social media and one day if I'm live long enough, I will put music out in a post social media page and I feel like if you're a musician, if you're a musical performer, there's only two things that will remain because I listen to a lot of music, I have a wide variety of tastes with music but I do specialize in music
31:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can talk about that in a second because it's a topicum endlessly fascinated by it, but there's artists from the 1920s, 30s, 40s that we still listen to and talk about.
31:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's because they've left us two things.
31:36
[SPEAKER_02]: They've less of two things that are a musical legacy.
31:40
[SPEAKER_02]: One is their recordings, like the music that they recorded that has survived and two the way that they made people feel when they performed continues to be spoken about, written about.
31:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And to me, those are the only two things I care about.
31:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I have to play the game from a business standpoint to promote and market and have a career.
32:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But ultimately, in the big picture, there's only these two things that last.
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: the songs, the music, right, that you release and how people feel when you perform that stays with them.
32:18
[SPEAKER_02]: When you do a concert, do a performance.
32:22
[SPEAKER_02]: People do not remember for weeks, months or years afterwards.
32:26
[SPEAKER_02]: The set list, they don't necessarily remember what you were wearing.
32:31
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't necessarily remember if you hit the right note on that song or anything about it except.
32:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
32:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been to concerts throughout my whole life where I don't remember a lot of the details, but I remember how I felt.
32:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a there's a memory within me that sticks with me and I'll continue to talk about and seek out that feeling.
32:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So, those are the things I aspire to create is a positive feeling when people that will last.
33:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Those stick around.
33:04
[SPEAKER_02]: One day, Instagram will collapse.
33:07
[SPEAKER_02]: One day, TikTok will collapse.
33:09
[SPEAKER_02]: One day, Spotify will collapse.
33:11
[SPEAKER_02]: YouTube, one day, ticket master live nation.
33:14
[SPEAKER_02]: These things, they'll come and they go, but those two things won't remain.
33:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
33:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd say, I've transitioned from mostly being on the road to mostly being in the studio, and that's what's always grabbed me about making records.
33:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like you're making a sculpture.
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You're making this thing that is timeless.
33:31
[SPEAKER_01]: As amazing as live shows are in live performance as an art form that is so in the moment and it takes both the performer and the listener takes both to be active participants in that event to make it amazing.
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You can have a great band
33:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You can have a shitty band in a great crowd and it's just going to be mad.
33:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You really need a great crowd and a great performer together to create that energy in the room, which is incredible, but that's momentary.
33:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was kind of raised grew up loving jamb bands, and so there's all these live recordings.
34:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm in there cool, but it's not the same as being there in that room, and the feeling in that room that lasts.
34:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, not to beat it over the head, but like with the front facing data.
34:13
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been tricked by these companies into thinking that quantity beats quality because for them quantity is the thing.
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: People pay for ads on meta based on the amount of views, the amount of clicks, it's all quantity based.
34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So these companies need to trick us into thinking that quantity is king.
34:30
[SPEAKER_01]: When actually it's the quality of connection and we see that as podcasts hosts where it takes a specific type of fan, whether it's a fan of our guest or a fan of our conversation to sit through a 45
34:43
[SPEAKER_01]: minute hour long conversation on something like this that can get in the weeds can get pretty insider-based ball-up points, but it takes you know a quality of connection with the guests and with the conversation to stick through this and we see time and time again that that number that you see on social media or on Instagram does not translate into somebody that wants to spend quality time listening to a long-form conversation like this.
35:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I believe that if you choose to do something in the arts, whether you're a writer, a dancer, a painter, or a songwriter, or a producer, whatever you do, you've chosen the hardest path.
35:23
[SPEAKER_02]: if you're trying to have to have a career where you've chosen the hardest path.
35:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But the best thing that you can do to build succeed and make a lasting impact is to work on your own talent.
35:35
[SPEAKER_02]: People ask me all the time if I had $25,000.
35:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Where would be the best use of that money for my career?
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And you hear this sometimes parents will ask me about their kids who are
35:52
[SPEAKER_02]: should we hire a radio?
35:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Should we do ads?
35:55
[SPEAKER_02]: What should we do?
35:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Should we do playlist pitching?
35:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, you're absolutely asking the wrong person.
36:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You could do any of those things.
36:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And you wouldn't be wrong because anything that works do, sure.
36:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But the question I have is, why not invest in your talent?
36:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Because at the end of the day, it's all you'll be left with.
36:17
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're a stand-up comedian, if you can't make people laugh every single time,
36:22
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to have a really long career, and so you need to actually bomb as a comedian over and over so that you learn how to be funny every single time.
36:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you're a saw writer, you've got to write like a hundred songs.
36:38
[SPEAKER_02]: to learn how to write one good one.
36:40
[SPEAKER_02]: If you wanna be a performer on stage, you gotta do like hundreds of shows before you have the commands to be great on stage every single night in every situation.
36:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you wanna have a life in music, a good amount of your focus should be there in my opinion.
36:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Whether you're doing well, not well, have money, don't have money on trend off trend.
37:02
[SPEAKER_02]: That's still all you will have is your ability.
37:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And for me, I want to be able if it all fell apart tomorrow.
37:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to be able to walk into an open mic in like a small town in Louisiana and be able to sing a song and have people feel something good and have their heads turned.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that's really at the end of the day all that's in our control.
37:25
[SPEAKER_01]: We've all experienced it.
37:26
[SPEAKER_01]: This business is not a normal business.
37:28
[SPEAKER_01]: The normal business you do A, B, and you get C. You know, you just do it at a little bit larger each iteration, right?
37:34
[SPEAKER_01]: The music industry, it's like A plus B equals X.
37:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, okay, well, at least I know that.
37:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're A plus B, now it equals L. And you're like, there's nothing consistent here except for, like you said, what we create, how we create it, how we show up to do that act.
37:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and also, it goes back to like, why are you pursuing a music career to begin with?
37:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it to get attention or create a business or is it to be able to do this thing that you love with frequency and that it's your life?
38:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So why not be the best that you can be at that thing?
38:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Invest in piano lessons, voice lessons, work on your songs.
38:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, again, we're at an interesting time
38:19
[SPEAKER_00]: with AI and stuff trying to tell us, oh, that stuff's not worthy.
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You just have a computer make it and then you can market it where it's going to suck all of our souls out.
38:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, you want to be able to if you're the career and all of the outside stuff goes away, you still can have the experience, the fulfillment, the joy of going and singing a song.
38:45
[SPEAKER_00]: and writing a song.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything stripped away.
38:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing can take that away from you.
38:49
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've invested the time and effort to access it in yourself, to improve your skill, your ability.
38:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been a music teacher forever since I was in college.
39:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We both went to music school in New York City.
39:03
[SPEAKER_00]: We went to jazz conservatory at the new school.
39:05
[SPEAKER_00]: and I still teach songwriting as I've been a touring musician myself and I am constantly like, this is for ourselves.
39:14
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not to get the end goal.
39:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so that we can have the joy of playing a song.
39:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You learn these skills and the tedium of
39:24
[SPEAKER_00]: practice so that you can more easily express the thing that's inside of you.
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's frustrating when I can't play something I hear in my head, but the more I work on it, the more I have that ability, and then the more free and expressive and soulful I feel, and then the outside stuff doesn't have as much power over us.
39:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I meet again.
39:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I hate to go back to this hundred years ago thing.
39:49
[SPEAKER_02]: but recorded music like AI was seen as a threat to music and art and the careers of musicians.
40:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And this seems strange, but there was a lot of amazing musicians, for instance in New Orleans in the early jazz era.
40:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the greatest jazz musicians refused to be recorded.
40:18
[SPEAKER_02]: have this record and they didn't have record players most of these people would be stealing your sound.
40:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be reproduced and copied and the sound that you made as a singer, a horn player, a piano player is all you had and if you recorded it, you would give it a way forever.
40:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Sadly, we lost some of the greatest performances that they were recorded.
40:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That was an inflection point about can recorded music have a soul and can it be an art or is it just a way to cash in and on what's already been made, right?
40:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We've had to ask that same question about every innovation and every inflection point and we're really going to ask it now about AI for sure.
41:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I'm less pessimistic than other people because I see in how music great performances and songs that persisted for 100 years.
41:15
[SPEAKER_02]: A great song, an amazing voice, a great band, an amazing spirit of a performer, still inspires people.
41:25
[SPEAKER_02]: as the industry goes up and down and the technology goes up and down.
41:29
[SPEAKER_02]: People still, even though they don't have money, even though the tickers are so expensive, even though the world's on fire, they still by tickets to go and see that performer, and they anticipate that two-hour concert for months and months and months, it still means that much that many people.
41:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You could sit at home and watch
41:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Netflix or TikTok, but people still are going the concerts and they're still obsessing over songs in music.
41:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Despite the obstacles and so I do feel that we're at another inflection point where we will question does the soul survive in music.
42:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people souls won't, but in the general population
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's so beautiful.
42:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We like to be wary of the time that our guests give to us.
42:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But just like we start all the conversations and we also like to wrap them up the same way.
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is with a choose your own adventure type question.
42:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So it could be...
42:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Something that somebody has said to you or maybe you read something you've gathered along the way along your journey that continues to fill your cup and keep you inspired, keep you rolling down the road or conversely, you could be something that 18-year-old Adam wanted to know when you were first setting off and whether you knew it or not, building a career based on your creativity.
42:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
42:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, when I was 19, and they can't, I grew up in New Jersey.
42:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never been anywhere down South other than Florida to visit my relatives.
43:03
[SPEAKER_02]: But music was like a portal to other worlds, right?
43:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And I became obsessed with Southern music, old Southern music, blues, country, early rock and roll, rockabilly, early jazz.
43:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything that was from Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Louisiana,
43:24
[SPEAKER_02]: from 60 to 100 years prior where my head was at.
43:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I did this crazy road trip when I was 19 down to Mississippi.
43:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I spent two weeks in Mississippi with my friends.
43:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And Mississippi in 1999 was truly another world.
43:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And then by the way, then I spent a year in Memphis when I was 21 at the University of Memphis because I just had to be down there.
43:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there was a musician that I saw perform.
43:50
[SPEAKER_02]: They most Vincent who was in his 80s.
43:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Then
43:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So, he probably had been performing, I think, since the 40s, maybe 30s, 40s.
44:01
[SPEAKER_02]: My saw Honey Boy Edwards, who was like 100 at that time, I've been playing since the 20s.
44:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I had some experience of seeing music by musicians who played before the modern era, before the record business was the dominant thing in music.
44:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I had experiences going to find the grave sites of some of these old blues guys that I've become obsessed with.
44:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like a whole world was opening up to me.
44:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, it was the beginning of a great adventure.
44:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of people in my life, my family and friends were like, we don't get it, what are you doing?
44:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I really wanted to learn how to play piano in that style.
44:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I really wanted to learn how to sing.
44:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But mostly, I wanted to learn how to make people feel that way that I felt about that music.
44:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It felt like you're going to another world.
44:51
[SPEAKER_02]: that feeling of wonder, it comes in and goes.
44:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And as you get older, it becomes harder to access.
44:57
[SPEAKER_02]: But I still get those chills.
44:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I still remember that feeling and I can still access it.
45:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know when I'm at a concert or there's a piece of art that once in a while really gets to me, I get that same feeling.
45:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also know from the other side what it feels like to provide
45:21
[SPEAKER_02]: when people leave my show and sometimes they say, you know, that wasn't just the best show I've seen this year, that was the best show I've ever seen.
45:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Or it was like going to church or people will say, when I die, I want that song played at my funeral.
45:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Or we played your song at my dad's funeral.
45:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That to me is the quest I've been on, the event
45:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And it really has to do with depth of feeling, trying to access the depth of feeling, that people like the three of us, we walk around with feelings.
45:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And we make people feel.
46:00
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the gig.
46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I enjoy even despite the obstacles and the stress and the financial hardship and the craziness of this industry.
46:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I still get excited about that.
46:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we have asked that question as the final question for probably the last about 100 episodes.
46:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We've done about 170 of these and I will say that that is the first time that anybody has chosen to answer it with a feeling.
46:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, every other answer has been a quote or something that somebody has told them or something they've heard along the way And that's the first time that somebody has responded with a feeling that fills their cup and it just summarizes this whole conversation for me so well Yeah, it's been like a very heart-led Exploration of what we do rather than just like a top-down mental and and it's been so inspiring to me to be able to kind of look at it from this angle So thank you for being so open with us.
46:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it was pleasure
46:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like my body has just been like relaxing through this hour.
47:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Like just like, oh, that's okay.
47:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It worked.
47:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We're okay.
47:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We started on existential dread and we had to don't mind.
47:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Chase that feeling.
47:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Good.
47:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's beautiful.
47:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you so much for this whole conversation.
47:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me, guys.
47:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you for your bravery and how you're sharing.
47:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So we really appreciate you.
47:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, keep your podcasts going.
47:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Keep your music going.
47:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And I hope I see you.
47:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure I'll see you guys down the road.
47:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure of it.
47:36
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Adam.
47:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a great rest of your day.
47:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
47:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
47:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Take care.
47:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We know your time is valuable and we're grateful you chose to spend this hour with us.
47:47
[SPEAKER_00]: If this conversation resonated with you, know that it is just one of many.
47:51
[SPEAKER_00]: We have an archive of over 140 conversations.
47:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're looking for a way to go to next, you can find curated playlists by topic on our YouTube channel or simply scroll back in this feed to find our conversations with Rose and Cash, New York Times bestselling author, Maggie Smith, Lucius, J.D.M.E.Ferson, and many others.
48:08
[SPEAKER_01]: This shows produced by me, Mary Chaffer-based, with help from the Kayla Anne.
48:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And all the music he hears written, performed and produced by me as well.
48:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Our show is edited and mixed by Leeland Holden at Pod Punch and we are proud members of the Bluegrass situation podcast network.
48:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for being here.
48:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you next time.