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Financial Red Flags In Relationships · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud your
0:04
Speaker 1: the Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
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Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
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Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
0:14
Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
0:18
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
0:22
Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
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Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
0:30
Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
0:33
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
0:34
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:57
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money Podcast, Millennials
1:01
Speaker 2: who want Financial Freedom. My name is Jessica Ricky, and
1:04
Speaker 2: today I am here with my favorite finance expert, Victoria Divine.
1:08
Speaker 4: You better not have any other favorite finance experts. I'm
1:10
Speaker 4: just saying, imagine if I said my second favorite finance experts,
1:14
Speaker 4: you should have red flag, which is very app flag Jessica,
1:19
Speaker 4: because in today's episode, we're going to be talking all
1:22
Speaker 4: about financial red flags in a relationship, which I feel
1:26
Speaker 4: like is a little interesting, a little a little spicy.
1:29
Speaker 4: We're going to kind of cover two really broad areas
1:32
Speaker 4: of conversation here, so I feel like it's important we
1:34
Speaker 4: do put a little content warning at the top. I
1:37
Speaker 4: think a content warning here is perfect, actually, Jessica, because
1:40
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, this topic can be
1:42
Speaker 4: a little bit painful or it might raise a few
1:45
Speaker 4: issues for you, and if it does, I mean, it's
1:47
Speaker 4: not great that that does, but I'm also glad that
1:50
Speaker 4: they're being brought to light so that we can deal
1:52
Speaker 4: with them. There'll be a whole heap of resources in
1:55
Speaker 4: our show notes as usual.
1:56
Speaker 2: But also if you just want to skip.
1:58
Speaker 4: Out on today's episode, there are three hundred plus She's
2:01
Speaker 4: on the Money episodes now that you could dive straight into.
2:04
Speaker 4: So if today's not for you, that is totally okay.
2:07
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Now, Via, I wanted to kind of start at
2:10
Speaker 2: the top because something we always talk about on the
2:12
Speaker 2: show is the importance of having conversations about money with
2:15
Speaker 2: your partner. And we've had people say to us before,
2:18
Speaker 2: I want to talk to my partner about it, they
2:20
Speaker 2: just shut me down. Any flag, Yeah, so would you
2:24
Speaker 2: say that that is a little bit of a red flag?
2:25
Speaker 4: I don't know if are they different levels of red flag.
2:28
Speaker 4: Can I have an orange flag, a red flag, and
2:30
Speaker 4: a crimson flag?
2:31
Speaker 2: I love it? Thank you.
2:32
Speaker 4: I feel like financial conversations are really hard and don't
2:36
Speaker 4: tend to come up very easily at the start of
2:39
Speaker 4: new relationships.
2:40
Speaker 2: Right.
2:40
Speaker 4: That's because most of the time we're just trying to
2:42
Speaker 4: impress the other person, So you like taking them out
2:44
Speaker 4: to different restaurants and bars, maybe you're getting hotel rooms,
2:48
Speaker 4: or maybe you're having like weekends away or showering them
2:50
Speaker 4: with expensive gifts, like often that is a way that
2:54
Speaker 4: we show off. But soon you might begin to notice patterns, right,
2:57
Speaker 4: and we've spoken about this offline a lot. The patterns
3:01
Speaker 4: might be oh, yes, sorry, I forgot to bring my wallet.
3:03
Speaker 4: I'll pay you back, and then they never pay you back,
3:06
Speaker 4: or too many times they're like, oh, you know, it
3:08
Speaker 4: was my turn last time, and you're thinking, like in
3:10
Speaker 4: the back of your head, you're like, oh, I feel
3:13
Speaker 4: like I paid for a last date. But okay, like
3:15
Speaker 4: gaslighting central, no worries. But it's one of those things
3:18
Speaker 4: that red flags can start green and then start changing
3:22
Speaker 4: to orange, and then they're red, and then you're not sure.
3:24
Speaker 2: What to do because you feel a little bit too deep.
3:26
Speaker 4: So I think it is really important to have this
3:28
Speaker 4: conversation today about what a financial red flag actually looks like,
3:32
Speaker 4: because sometimes when things seem really insignificant, financial red flags
3:37
Speaker 4: can compound faster than anything could in your subranuation account.
3:41
Speaker 4: So it's really, from my perspective, important to talk about this,
3:45
Speaker 4: especially because the statistic exists that sixteen percent of Australian
3:49
Speaker 4: women have or will experience financial abuse at some point
3:53
Speaker 4: in their lifetime. And obviously it's an important area to
3:56
Speaker 4: keep your finger on the pulse, even if the flags
3:59
Speaker 4: do seem a little bit harmless at the time. So
4:01
Speaker 4: it's about being educated and informed and on top.
4:04
Speaker 2: Of it for sure. And as this episode goes on,
4:06
Speaker 2: I think you'll see a little bit of a trend
4:08
Speaker 2: that there are certain things that contextually may or may
4:12
Speaker 2: not be a red flag because in one relationship, something
4:16
Speaker 2: you know, it might seem totally fine, and in another
4:18
Speaker 2: relationship it can be a bit of a warning bell.
4:20
Speaker 2: And I think that's why it is really tricky sometimes
4:23
Speaker 2: to take a step back and see these red flags.
4:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, and at the end of the day, you said
4:26
Speaker 4: it just before, like sometimes they can be small red
4:29
Speaker 4: flags and they start out as, oh my gosh, I
4:31
Speaker 4: forgot my wallet. Sorry, can you catch this one? And
4:34
Speaker 4: then they never pay you back. But they can actually
4:36
Speaker 4: very quickly snowball into something bigger. And I was reading
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Speaker 4: something the other day from a psychologist called Ronda Andrews,
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Speaker 4: and she has been a psychologist for more than thirty years,
4:46
Speaker 4: and she said that she thinks it's about the rush
4:48
Speaker 4: of getting into joint financial circumstances. And she says that
4:51
Speaker 4: she sees a lot of people suggesting that they stet
4:53
Speaker 4: up joint accounts when they've only just met someone. And
4:56
Speaker 4: as innocuous as it sounds, let's have a joint account
5:00
Speaker 4: so that we can say, for a joint holiday and
5:01
Speaker 4: be on the same page, it actually can be a
5:04
Speaker 4: massive red flag. So I think it's really important to
5:06
Speaker 4: talk about what this is and what healthy boundaries mean
5:09
Speaker 4: for you and your relationship.
5:11
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more so. Having that initial conversation about
5:14
Speaker 2: money can be a little bit awkward, and that in
5:17
Speaker 2: itself isn't necessarily a red flag. It could just be
5:20
Speaker 2: reflective of your new partner's money story or the experiences
5:23
Speaker 2: that they've had. How can we comfortably ease people that
5:28
Speaker 2: we're seeing or interested in dating into having those more
5:31
Speaker 2: challenging intimate conversations about money.
5:34
Speaker 4: So I think it's important to remember that not every
5:36
Speaker 4: conversation about money has to be personal, right, Like if
5:39
Speaker 4: I go on a date with you, Jess, which I
5:41
Speaker 4: should be so lucky. Actually, let's be honest. I've been
5:44
Speaker 4: out for dinner with you a billion times. I've probably
5:46
Speaker 4: been out for dinner with you more times than I've
5:48
Speaker 4: been out with Steve.
5:49
Speaker 2: Should we tell him? Should we let him know there's
5:51
Speaker 2: a third person in your relationship and it's me?
5:52
Speaker 3: Yeah?
5:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, me and Lucy. It's good anyway. I think
5:55
Speaker 4: it's really important to realize that if you're going out
5:57
Speaker 4: for dinner with someone or going on a date with someone,
6:00
Speaker 4: money conversations can happen in a non personal way. Like
6:03
Speaker 4: we can talk about your salary, great, really personal, but
6:06
Speaker 4: we could also just talk about inflation. We could talk
6:10
Speaker 4: about the interest rates. We could talk about how much
6:12
Speaker 4: dinner costs. We could start with really small things to
6:16
Speaker 4: get an understanding of somebody else's general attitude towards money
6:20
Speaker 4: and start kind of like teasing out how different their
6:23
Speaker 4: money story could be to yours. We could talk about
6:26
Speaker 4: financial goals. I don't have to have a conversation Jess
6:29
Speaker 4: with you about oh my gosh, how much money do
6:31
Speaker 4: you earn? To oh my gosh, are you working towards
6:33
Speaker 4: anything big financially at the moment, And they might say, yeah,
6:36
Speaker 4: I'm actually saving for a house, which is exactly what
6:38
Speaker 4: you would say, Oh are you close? Yeh, Oh my gosh,
6:40
Speaker 4: I'm talking to a broker. I'm so close. This is
6:42
Speaker 4: such an exciting conversation. That question, too, though, could be
6:46
Speaker 4: really scary for someone to be asked if they're in
6:49
Speaker 4: a mountain of debt, because I know, Jesse, if I
6:51
Speaker 4: asked you that six or seven years ago, you would
6:53
Speaker 4: have shied away and run for the hills because you're like, please,
6:55
Speaker 4: don't ask me that. That's none of your business. So
6:58
Speaker 4: it's really important to talk talk about money in your relationship,
7:01
Speaker 4: but make sure you're taking baby steps. You don't get
7:04
Speaker 4: to just dive in and go how much do you earn?
7:07
Speaker 2: What do you spend? What do you earn? What do
7:09
Speaker 2: you woe?
7:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you got any debt? What does it look like?
7:11
Speaker 4: How do you feel about your hex? Do you reckon
7:13
Speaker 4: your parents? Are go guarante or on a future property
7:15
Speaker 4: if we ever, you know, decided to do things together.
7:17
Speaker 2: Can't go full Victoria divine on your first day.
7:20
Speaker 4: No, I didn't, though, But I do think that financial
7:23
Speaker 4: intimacy is a thing, and I think that in the
7:26
Speaker 4: same way that you might not dive straight into bed
7:28
Speaker 4: with somebody. I mean you might, you might ask them
7:31
Speaker 4: how much they earn, but it's all about reading the
7:33
Speaker 4: other side of the table and going are they going
7:35
Speaker 4: to be comfortable with this?
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Speaker 2: Am I asking a question that.
7:39
Speaker 4: Maybe isn't actually related to the conversation we're having, or
7:42
Speaker 4: is it just on the right path? And I feel
7:44
Speaker 4: comfortable because I've had so many conversations, mostly in my DMS,
7:48
Speaker 4: with people being like, oh, Ve, like you said on
7:50
Speaker 4: a podcast that you would never ask on a first date,
7:52
Speaker 4: and haha, it came up in the first ten minutes
7:55
Speaker 4: of our conversation.
7:56
Speaker 2: That's so fine.
7:57
Speaker 4: I think it's more about respecting somebody else's boundaries and
8:01
Speaker 4: if they're being really evasive of money conversations, not to pry.
8:04
Speaker 4: It's not your position on a first date. Whereas if
8:07
Speaker 4: it comes up and it's just naturally flowing conversation, I
8:10
Speaker 4: don't see that as a red flag. I think it's
8:12
Speaker 4: really important to have these conversations, but really reading into
8:16
Speaker 4: what is appropriate and what is not appropriate, and that
8:19
Speaker 4: can be flipped to the other side, Jess, like if
8:21
Speaker 4: you consistently asked me about my income and what that meant,
8:24
Speaker 4: but I was clearly showing you evasive signs and I
8:27
Speaker 4: didn't want to have that conversation. I'd say that is
8:30
Speaker 4: a red flag, not just a financial red flag. But
8:32
Speaker 4: you can't read the room red flag.
8:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think what you said there is really
8:37
Speaker 2: relevant when it comes to the conversation because I think
8:40
Speaker 2: if you're just meeting someone and you're trying to put
8:42
Speaker 2: on your best face, it might catch you a little
8:44
Speaker 2: off guard. If I said, oh, how's the Brussels sprouts?
8:47
Speaker 2: By the way, how much debt do you have? It's
8:49
Speaker 2: a really jarring Are you actually tering Brussels sprouts on
8:52
Speaker 2: your first date? I mean, you love the ones that
8:54
Speaker 2: chin chin, which as I just wasn't sure, but that
8:58
Speaker 2: could be really disarming for someone who wasn't prepared for it,
9:01
Speaker 2: and particularly in the early signs of a relationship, you
9:03
Speaker 2: maybe aren't as comfortable having those conversations. So I think
9:08
Speaker 2: warming into those things. Working your way up is a
9:11
Speaker 2: really good way to approach it. But also understanding that
9:15
Speaker 2: people's reactions aren't necessarily reflective of a red flag immediately.
9:21
Speaker 2: Like if you ask someone about their finances on you know,
9:24
Speaker 2: your first couple of dates and they seem taken aback,
9:27
Speaker 2: that's not necessarily a red flag because they don't want
9:29
Speaker 2: to talk about it.
9:30
Speaker 4: Might they've just grown up with a different money story
9:32
Speaker 4: to you. If some money we've never discussed in their families,
9:34
Speaker 4: or in their past relationships or in their friendship circles.
9:37
Speaker 4: I mean, the more I'm in this community, the more
9:41
Speaker 4: conversation I have about money. Like Jess, We've just gotten
9:43
Speaker 4: back recently, in last month or so from a finance conference.
9:47
Speaker 4: All we did was talk about money. Yeah, can you
9:49
Speaker 4: imagine going to a lawyer's conference, how often money would
9:53
Speaker 4: have come up? Like, nobody in that space that I'm
9:56
Speaker 4: aware of openly discusses their salary, and they more often
10:00
Speaker 4: the not especially in Australia, don't discuss their salary because
10:03
Speaker 4: there's salary secrecy clauses in most lawyers employment contracts. So
10:07
Speaker 4: for different industries it's going to mean different things. Whereas
10:11
Speaker 4: jessl I know, you've got a lot of friends that
10:12
Speaker 4: are similar to mine, and they are nurses, they're on
10:15
Speaker 4: an award.
10:15
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, how long have you been working? Oh
10:17
Speaker 2: where do you work?
10:18
Speaker 1: Oh?
10:18
Speaker 2: That hospital?
10:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, the pay grade is xyzed like. There's such an
10:22
Speaker 4: open conversation around that. Whereas you flip it to different industries,
10:26
Speaker 4: it means different things. So I think you need to
10:28
Speaker 4: be really aware that there's no such thing as one
10:30
Speaker 4: size fits or when it comes to money conversations. But
10:33
Speaker 4: I think it's about once you get to know them
10:35
Speaker 4: a bit more and you understand their money story and
10:37
Speaker 4: you understand where they're coming from, that's where red flags
10:40
Speaker 4: start to mean something for sure.
10:43
Speaker 2: Now, in my mind, red flags go one of two ways,
10:46
Speaker 2: particularly when you are dating. So there's the red flags
10:50
Speaker 2: that go, Okay, you and I we're not in the
10:53
Speaker 2: same place, so I'm a saver and you're a spender.
10:56
Speaker 2: Or I want to buy a house and get married
10:59
Speaker 2: and have children and you don't want any of those things,
11:01
Speaker 2: And those are indicators that neither of you are necessarily
11:05
Speaker 2: doing anything wrong, but there's a misalignment there that potentially
11:08
Speaker 2: could mean that a relationship isn't going to work. Out
11:10
Speaker 2: in the long term.
11:11
Speaker 4: And I mean there are so many different examples of that,
11:14
Speaker 4: right like you said them before, But it doesn't even
11:17
Speaker 4: have to be financial. It doesn't even have to be
11:19
Speaker 4: the big things. Like you might be a vegetarian and
11:21
Speaker 4: you hate the fact that you're you know, person that
11:23
Speaker 4: you're dating eats meat, and then you realize you would
11:25
Speaker 4: never want to live in a house with someone who
11:27
Speaker 4: cooks steak every second night for dinner. Like, there are
11:29
Speaker 4: so many different things and reasons a relationship might not
11:32
Speaker 4: work out, but I do think that the crux of it,
11:34
Speaker 4: money can be one of the hardest things to get
11:36
Speaker 4: on the same page about.
11:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's those kind of little misalignment things, and
11:40
Speaker 2: then the second kind of red flag is something that
11:42
Speaker 2: signifies that there's some toxic behavior going on. So red
11:46
Speaker 2: flags that perhaps there might be a history or a
11:49
Speaker 2: future of financial abuse or financial control, which is obviously
11:53
Speaker 2: something that we are very passionate about, and we don't
11:56
Speaker 2: date that not at all. We've done a full episode
11:58
Speaker 2: on financial abuse. If if you're not up to speed,
12:00
Speaker 2: I would really recommend giving it a listen. And I
12:03
Speaker 2: want to talk to VD about how we kind of
12:06
Speaker 2: differentiate between the two.
12:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, So first to differentiate, I would really want
12:11
Speaker 4: to define what a financial red flag means. I think
12:14
Speaker 4: your two perspectives actually make a lot of sense. But
12:18
Speaker 4: from my perspective, a financial red flag is an ongoing
12:21
Speaker 4: money concern that's either causing a problem right now or
12:25
Speaker 4: has the ability to cause a problem a little bit
12:27
Speaker 4: later into the future. So if it is either of
12:30
Speaker 4: those things, which I think you've defined, I've just done
12:32
Speaker 4: it in like one sentence. Apologies, love your work, Jessica, Ricky.
12:35
Speaker 4: I feel like yours makes more sense. Minds a little
12:37
Speaker 4: bit more clinical, you could say. But red flags, as
12:41
Speaker 4: you said, not always a relationship deal breaker, but if
12:43
Speaker 4: they're not addressed, they probably will create a pretty significant
12:48
Speaker 4: relationship and financial strain, Which means, the sooner jest you're
12:52
Speaker 4: able to identify any red flags in a relationship, the
12:55
Speaker 4: sooner you can work to address and resolve them. So
12:58
Speaker 4: I guess that's why we're talking about this, to so
13:00
Speaker 4: that we can actually understand some of the common financial
13:03
Speaker 4: red flags, what you can do when you see those
13:05
Speaker 4: red flags, and also be able to identify what it
13:08
Speaker 4: means when it goes beyond just being a red flag,
13:10
Speaker 4: because at the end of the day, a red flag
13:12
Speaker 4: is just an indicator that something might be wrong. Sometimes
13:15
Speaker 4: we get false reds, but of course not every single
13:17
Speaker 4: partner who displays a red flag to us is going
13:20
Speaker 4: to be a financial abuser, right like, at the end
13:22
Speaker 4: of the day, just because we have different red flags.
13:25
Speaker 4: I mean, if you look at my financial circumstance, I'm
13:27
Speaker 4: sure we could find some Absolutely we could. But it
13:30
Speaker 4: could just mean that someone is bad with money and
13:33
Speaker 4: doesn't know how to end the cycle of credit card
13:35
Speaker 4: debt or making poor money decisions. It doesn't mean that
13:38
Speaker 4: they're abusive, but in some circumstances it does mean that,
13:42
Speaker 4: and we need to be really clear when that happens
13:44
Speaker 4: what we need to do. What we need to do
13:46
Speaker 4: is get out of that circumstance.
13:48
Speaker 2: So what indicators are there that the red flags that
13:51
Speaker 2: we're seeing might be a symptom of a large issue.
13:54
Speaker 4: As we discussed Jess in the episode about financial abuse.
13:58
Speaker 4: So we believe that you're in a financially abusive relationship
14:01
Speaker 4: if your partner does any of the following, So if
14:03
Speaker 4: they give you allowances or budgets without your input, if
14:06
Speaker 4: they require you to account for each and every single
14:09
Speaker 4: dollar that you spend. If they pressure you to quit
14:12
Speaker 4: your job or sabotage any of your work responsibilities, if
14:16
Speaker 4: they feel entitled to your money or your assets, if
14:20
Speaker 4: they spend your money without your knowledge, they control how
14:24
Speaker 4: all of the household finances are spent without your consent.
14:28
Speaker 4: They limit your ability to attend job training, pursue higher education,
14:32
Speaker 4: or otherwise advance your career. Or they limit access to
14:35
Speaker 4: your own bank accounts or joint bank accounts. And obviously
14:38
Speaker 4: there are a heap of other indicators of financial abuse. However,
14:42
Speaker 4: as we discussed in that episode, it is financially abusive
14:46
Speaker 4: if it is beyond your own personal control and you
14:49
Speaker 4: don't feel like you have a say, so, it can
14:52
Speaker 4: actually be a whole heap of things, Like Jess, it
14:54
Speaker 4: could be threatening to cut you off, But at the
14:56
Speaker 4: end of the day, it means that you are not
14:59
Speaker 4: in control of your personal financial circumstances. And if that's
15:03
Speaker 4: the case, it's not a red flag. It is financial abuse.
15:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, that's really solid, and I feel like that
15:08
Speaker 2: gives us a good basis understanding of where that line
15:11
Speaker 2: in the sand is. Obviously, like we said before, you
15:14
Speaker 2: really need to read the room, and sometimes it does
15:16
Speaker 2: take a couple more dates to figure out if something
15:19
Speaker 2: is just them doing something you don't agree with, versus
15:22
Speaker 2: something where they're trying to be controlling of you. So
15:25
Speaker 2: I think let's digest that, let's go to a quick break,
15:27
Speaker 2: and then when we come back, I want to talk
15:29
Speaker 2: through some of the other general red flags you might
15:31
Speaker 2: want to keep an eye out for. Don't go anywhere,
15:38
Speaker 2: all right, VD, Let's talk through some of the red
15:40
Speaker 2: flags that we can expect to see in a relationship
15:43
Speaker 2: and why we might need to be concerned about them that.
15:45
Speaker 4: We can expect to see in a relationship.
15:47
Speaker 2: I hate that well, that we should make an eye
15:50
Speaker 2: out for in a relationship. Maybe a little less hush.
15:52
Speaker 1: All right.
15:52
Speaker 4: So number one I have written down is that your
15:55
Speaker 4: partner refuses to talk about money. So I feel like
15:58
Speaker 4: this is an interesting one. I get it, talking about
16:00
Speaker 4: money sucks. It is hard, nobody likes it, especially when
16:04
Speaker 4: you're trying to keep thing sexy at the start of
16:06
Speaker 4: a relationship. But I think there's a really big difference
16:09
Speaker 4: between feeling a little bit uncomfortable when it comes to
16:11
Speaker 4: talking about money and outright refusing to have a conversation,
16:15
Speaker 4: regardless of how long you've been with that person. From
16:17
Speaker 4: my perspective, a partner who actually refuses to talk about
16:20
Speaker 4: money could be doing so for a number of reasons,
16:22
Speaker 4: and all of them leave room for concern.
16:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And that's kind of what we covered
16:26
Speaker 2: off earlier when we said, you know, it is a
16:28
Speaker 2: little bit of a bad sign if they're not willing
16:30
Speaker 2: to talk about it at all. And there is definitely
16:32
Speaker 2: a big difference between being uncomfortable versus flat refusing to
16:35
Speaker 2: get involvedible, and the flat refusing is to me the
16:38
Speaker 2: red flag. It's not just being uncomfortable. Everyone gets a
16:41
Speaker 2: little bit uncomfortable with pervy topics. I think it's the
16:44
Speaker 2: flat out refusal me red flag. Yeah.
16:47
Speaker 4: Next one is when your partner is being super secretive
16:50
Speaker 4: about their spending and saving and investing behaviors. I think
16:54
Speaker 4: that that, to me is a little bit suspicious, especially
16:57
Speaker 4: when you get deeper into a relationship.
16:59
Speaker 2: So it's obviously really sexy to think that.
17:02
Speaker 4: I keep using the words sexy because relationships should be,
17:05
Speaker 4: but I think it's nice to romanticize that your partner
17:08
Speaker 4: might hide some funds away to one day purchase an
17:10
Speaker 4: engagement ring right, Like, I've thought about it. My partner
17:14
Speaker 4: did it money in It was very exciting. But while
17:17
Speaker 4: all of that seems really romantic, it's less romantic when
17:21
Speaker 4: all of their spending and saving habits are hidden. Secretive
17:25
Speaker 4: behavior is obviously a massive concern if you have joint accounts,
17:29
Speaker 4: or you're working together towards a common financial goal, like
17:31
Speaker 4: you're saving for a house, and their secretive behavior is
17:34
Speaker 4: actually completely throwing you off the rails to being able
17:37
Speaker 4: to achieve that goal, or something that they're spending their
17:40
Speaker 4: money on doesn't align to your financial goals and you're like, well,
17:43
Speaker 4: where is this going to me? It's not necessarily about
17:46
Speaker 4: having different money priorities. It's actually about the secretiveness of it.
17:50
Speaker 4: And this can lead to obviously bigger issues, like it
17:53
Speaker 4: could lead to a gambling addiction, or it could mean
17:56
Speaker 4: that they have a credit card that you weren't aware of,
17:58
Speaker 4: or maybe they're carrying debt that they didn't bring up
18:01
Speaker 4: earlier and didn't know how to bring up with you.
18:03
Speaker 4: I think it's a really worthy conversation, but I do
18:05
Speaker 4: think that another red flag is when someone is super
18:08
Speaker 4: secretive about their spending habits. I think particularly as well,
18:12
Speaker 4: even just beyond the financial aspect of it, your partner
18:15
Speaker 4: is arguably the person in your life that you know
18:18
Speaker 4: the most intimately or if not one of the most intimately,
18:22
Speaker 4: and so if they're not in a position where they
18:25
Speaker 4: feel comfortable opening up to you, or you don't feel
18:27
Speaker 4: comfortable opening up to them, I think that you need
18:30
Speaker 4: to consider whether you are in fact comfortable with that
18:33
Speaker 4: person to level that you want to be. And I
18:35
Speaker 4: guess we maybe should define this at the top. But
18:38
Speaker 4: when we're talking about these red flags in relationships, we're
18:41
Speaker 4: talking about long term relationships. Ye're not like first date
18:45
Speaker 4: red flags.
18:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not necessarily for someone that you're going to
18:47
Speaker 2: go on one date with and never see again, have
18:49
Speaker 2: a good night, thank you, wambam, thank you, ma'am. It's
18:52
Speaker 2: more about, okay, well, if you're planning on potentially spending
18:56
Speaker 2: the rest of your life with this person, if you
18:58
Speaker 2: can't get comfortable enough with them to be honest about
19:00
Speaker 2: your debt that you're embarrassed by, I've been there, or
19:03
Speaker 2: absolutely the roles reversed and they're not comfortable enough with you,
19:07
Speaker 2: is the level of trust that you would hope to
19:09
Speaker 2: see in a long term partner, does it exist, because yeah,
19:12
Speaker 2: it can be embarrassing, it can be confronting to talk
19:14
Speaker 2: about these things. But if you're not in a place
19:17
Speaker 2: where you can do that, are you in a place
19:18
Speaker 2: where you can get married, Are you in a place
19:20
Speaker 2: where you can have children or grow old together? Because
19:24
Speaker 2: I think that it's important that you are able to
19:26
Speaker 2: get on the same page with these things because they
19:28
Speaker 2: impact your financial wellbeing really significantly one hundred percent.
19:32
Speaker 4: And that leads into my next red flag when it
19:34
Speaker 4: comes to money in a relationship, Jess, and that is
19:36
Speaker 4: that your partner's financial values don't actually align to your own.
19:40
Speaker 4: And to me, this is a rare flag. It's not
19:42
Speaker 4: a be all, end all, end of relationship conversation, but
19:46
Speaker 4: I think it's really important to be one aware of
19:49
Speaker 4: your partner's financial goals to a point where you deeply
19:53
Speaker 4: can overlay your goals and go, oh, we're on the
19:55
Speaker 4: same path or we're not. And I've openly discussed before
19:58
Speaker 4: that prior to meetings Steve, I didn't want to buy property.
20:01
Speaker 4: I didn't think that that was a line to my
20:03
Speaker 4: own financial goals. I was scared of it. I didn't
20:06
Speaker 4: want to take on that amount of debt. I didn't
20:08
Speaker 4: want to owe the bank that much money. I was
20:10
Speaker 4: obviously a financial advisor when I met Steve, and I
20:13
Speaker 4: was so excited about the share market and that's where
20:16
Speaker 4: all my wealth was. And so for me, yeah, our
20:19
Speaker 4: financial values did in the line. But what it meant
20:21
Speaker 4: was we opened that conversation up how to chat and
20:24
Speaker 4: realized that relationships are about compromise, how do we both
20:27
Speaker 4: meet our financial goals. So to me, it's a red
20:31
Speaker 4: flag in a good way. It's an indicator that you
20:34
Speaker 4: need to have deeper conversations, But it goes back to
20:36
Speaker 4: the other issue where if your partner then doesn't want
20:39
Speaker 4: to compromise, or then your partner doesn't want to have
20:42
Speaker 4: the conversations around money, that red flag becomes crimson. So
20:45
Speaker 4: I think it's about are you willing to be flexible?
20:48
Speaker 4: Are you willing to have a conversation about how to
20:50
Speaker 4: get on the same page, because you're never going to
20:53
Speaker 4: meet someone that you're one thousand percent on exactly the
20:56
Speaker 4: same page, as like, life is about compromise and change
20:58
Speaker 4: and being flexible, and a partner who doesn't share your
21:01
Speaker 4: financial goals could be an indicator that they're not on
21:03
Speaker 4: the same page as you long term, which inevitably is
21:06
Speaker 4: going to put you in a position of frustration and
21:09
Speaker 4: lack of control and feeling upset and maybe even heartbreak
21:12
Speaker 4: down the line.
21:13
Speaker 2: How do we differentiate between things that we shouldn't shouldn't
21:17
Speaker 2: compromise on? And I know should and shouldn't is very
21:20
Speaker 2: definitive and it's really hard personal. But I mean, you know,
21:24
Speaker 2: when you're in love and you're in those early days
21:26
Speaker 2: and you're so you know, you're in the moment and
21:28
Speaker 2: you're in your little rose colored bubble, I think it's
21:31
Speaker 2: really easy to go, oh, you want to buy a house.
21:34
Speaker 2: That's fine, we can buy a house beause I love
21:35
Speaker 2: you and I want you to be happy. How do
21:37
Speaker 2: we figure out where the line in the sand is
21:39
Speaker 2: between things that we are okay with being a bit
21:41
Speaker 2: f explode, Like I want to live in the city
21:43
Speaker 2: and you want to live in the country, So maybe
21:45
Speaker 2: we live in the middle versus the things that are
21:48
Speaker 2: us fundamentally changing our wants and needs out of love
21:54
Speaker 2: in a way that won't necessarily make us happy.
21:57
Speaker 4: So I think it's different for every single person. But
21:59
Speaker 4: the we did it was having a conversation about the
22:03
Speaker 4: importance of those goals. It wasn't just Steve going I
22:06
Speaker 4: want to own a house, full stop endo story, Like
22:08
Speaker 4: we quite literally were like, how important is it to
22:11
Speaker 4: you to have a house? And you know, it didn't
22:14
Speaker 4: happen overnight. It happened over a number of years where
22:17
Speaker 4: we came to the general consensus that yes, buying a
22:19
Speaker 4: house made sense. But it made sense because his love
22:23
Speaker 4: and want and goal of buying a house was far
22:27
Speaker 4: stronger than my want to be in the share market
22:30
Speaker 4: for the long term. So I think it was about
22:32
Speaker 4: the importance and where you value it. Whereas you know,
22:35
Speaker 4: house ownership was sitting quite low on my priority list,
22:38
Speaker 4: but it was very close to the top for Steve,
22:42
Speaker 4: and as his partner, I want him to achieve those things.
22:45
Speaker 4: So for me, I wanted to be on that journey
22:47
Speaker 4: with him because it was no longer about just the property.
22:49
Speaker 4: It was about helping my partner achieve his life goals.
22:53
Speaker 4: And so I think you need to take it a
22:54
Speaker 4: little bit further and really weigh up the pros and
22:58
Speaker 4: cons of it, because pathetically, if we were in a
23:01
Speaker 4: different financial circumstance, that wouldn't have made sense for me
23:04
Speaker 4: to support that because I could have been like, great,
23:06
Speaker 4: but it's going to take us another ten years and
23:08
Speaker 4: we don't have the income to support a mortgage, and
23:10
Speaker 4: you know, there could have been a million stumbling blocks.
23:13
Speaker 4: But I think it's about having open, honest conversation, and
23:16
Speaker 4: for us, it was actually about saying, let's put aside
23:18
Speaker 4: your feelings, Victoria, and let's put aside your feelings, Steve,
23:21
Speaker 4: and go what does buying a house financially look like?
23:24
Speaker 4: What doesn't mean for us? How would this work? How
23:27
Speaker 4: would it impact all of our other goals? And that's
23:30
Speaker 4: kind of how we came to the decision to actually buy,
23:33
Speaker 4: because we're like, all right, well now we're on the
23:35
Speaker 4: same page about exactly what that means. It was a
23:37
Speaker 4: less emotional decision, so it was taking the emotion out
23:41
Speaker 4: of it, being able to have a pragmatic outcome, and
23:44
Speaker 4: then overlaying the emotion again for me to go, yep,
23:46
Speaker 4: it's still not like my number one priority, but I
23:48
Speaker 4: can see how much that means to you. Does that
23:50
Speaker 4: make sense?
23:51
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely. The next red flag I.
23:53
Speaker 4: Have just is borrowing money consistently from family and friends.
23:58
Speaker 4: I think this is a massive red face flag, and
24:01
Speaker 4: like I get it. Things happen. It's pretty common to
24:03
Speaker 4: have to borrow money from a friend or a family
24:05
Speaker 4: member at some point, sometimes somewhere, but I think the
24:09
Speaker 4: problem arises when it's pretty consistent, so every single weekend
24:12
Speaker 4: they're borrowing money from their mum but they have a
24:14
Speaker 4: full time job, or they're always borrowing money from friends,
24:17
Speaker 4: like I just think that that is an indicator of
24:20
Speaker 4: poor money management. And obviously, not only does money come
24:24
Speaker 4: as a massive burden, I'm very against lending money to
24:26
Speaker 4: your friends or your family where you can avoid it,
24:28
Speaker 4: because I think that it plays into a far bigger
24:31
Speaker 4: issue and often a power dynamic. But I think it
24:35
Speaker 4: also just shows that your partner is not very good
24:37
Speaker 4: at money management. And to me, if you want a
24:40
Speaker 4: financially secure future for future you, that to me would
24:44
Speaker 4: be a red flag of like, this person needs to
24:46
Speaker 4: get it together.
24:47
Speaker 2: Would you say, the excessive usage of credit cards and
24:50
Speaker 2: buy now, pay later services comes in my same cutry.
24:53
Speaker 2: So to whip up the rest of that point, I
24:56
Speaker 2: also think it's a bit of a lack of respect
24:58
Speaker 2: for your friends and families generos, and also they just
25:01
Speaker 2: don't have clear financial boundaries, which I think is again
25:04
Speaker 2: red flag. But the credit card thing, Yes, if they're
25:07
Speaker 2: over using a credit card or racking up a heap
25:10
Speaker 2: of debt, or falling behind on credit card payments or
25:12
Speaker 2: opening a new credit card to pay off the old
25:14
Speaker 2: credit card, I just think that that's an even bigger
25:16
Speaker 2: problem that needs to be addressed. That if you end
25:19
Speaker 2: up in a relationship with that person, arguably becomes your
25:23
Speaker 2: issue too. And I'm not saying that that is your
25:25
Speaker 2: responsibility to pay it off. But at the end of
25:27
Speaker 2: the day, if you're in a relationship with someone who
25:30
Speaker 2: has pretty significant personal debt, that's going to stop you
25:33
Speaker 2: moving ahead in the future. It's arguably a bit savage, Jess,
25:37
Speaker 2: but it is the truth. And I have one more
25:40
Speaker 2: financial red flag before I ask you if you've written
25:42
Speaker 2: down any and my last financial flag is and this
25:46
Speaker 2: has come from previous experience in an old relationship that
25:50
Speaker 2: we won't mention ever again after this episode. And that's
25:53
Speaker 2: when your partner is overly frugal with their money but
25:56
Speaker 2: super frivolous with yours. So I hated this, so.
26:01
Speaker 4: Obviously we know that, oh my god, honey, I left
26:03
Speaker 4: my wallet at home.
26:04
Speaker 2: Can you get this?
26:04
Speaker 4: And then they never transfer you the money back, but
26:07
Speaker 4: something that and this is so niche.
26:09
Speaker 2: I hope no one resonates with this.
26:11
Speaker 4: But often when I was staying over at a previous
26:14
Speaker 4: partner's house, when we were seeing each other and it
26:17
Speaker 4: was all well and good, we'd go to the shops,
26:19
Speaker 4: and if we were buying ice cream and it was
26:21
Speaker 4: at his house and he was paying, it would always
26:23
Speaker 4: be home brand. But if he was at my house
26:26
Speaker 4: and we were going to the shops to get whatever
26:28
Speaker 4: we were getting, and maybe we're getting like a little
26:30
Speaker 4: dessert and wanted some connoisseur or vanilla ice cream, somehow
26:34
Speaker 4: it always made it into the basket that I was
26:36
Speaker 4: paying for, But if I put it in his, he'd
26:38
Speaker 4: be like, oh, it's not on sale, Oh we can't
26:40
Speaker 4: do this, and always go for the cheaper option. And
26:43
Speaker 4: to me, it was a massive red flag that he
26:46
Speaker 4: would be overly frugal with his money but not very
26:49
Speaker 4: frugal with my own, because I felt like that was
26:52
Speaker 4: generally disrespectful of my generosity and my financial boundaries. But
26:57
Speaker 4: I also think that it was a little bit deep
27:00
Speaker 4: representative of his lack of respect for my time, energy
27:03
Speaker 4: and effort that it took to earn that money, and
27:05
Speaker 4: he obviously respected his So to me, I'm like, oh,
27:09
Speaker 4: Victoria divine, you should have seen that earlier.
27:12
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yeah, one thousand percent.
27:14
Speaker 4: So, Jess, what red flags would you like to bring
27:17
Speaker 4: up with the team?
27:18
Speaker 2: I think you covered them all really well. The one
27:21
Speaker 2: big one I think for me that I think it's
27:23
Speaker 2: important to hit home is if you see a disconnect
27:26
Speaker 2: between the words of what your partner is saying and
27:28
Speaker 2: their actions. That's a huge red flag for me across
27:31
Speaker 2: the board in finances and in other aspects of the
27:34
Speaker 2: relationship as well. When it comes to finance, like you
27:37
Speaker 2: were saying, if you're talking about, oh, we want to
27:40
Speaker 2: buy a house together, and we have this big goal,
27:41
Speaker 2: but then your partner's going out and you know, dropping
27:44
Speaker 2: in a couple hun with the boys every weekend at
27:46
Speaker 2: the pub or things like that, I think it's important
27:49
Speaker 2: that absolutely you both have room to do things that
27:52
Speaker 2: are important to you, and nobody should be accountable to
27:54
Speaker 2: anybody else for every cent that they spend. But I
27:58
Speaker 2: think if your partner is saying one thing and doing another,
28:01
Speaker 2: it's a symptom of a bigger issue. So if they go, oh,
28:04
Speaker 2: I'm really trying to save money, but every date you
28:06
Speaker 2: go on is at a five star restaurant, you go
28:09
Speaker 2: you're not though, Yeah, exactly right. It makes me question
28:12
Speaker 2: their self awareness, whether they know what they're doing and
28:14
Speaker 2: they see the disconnect, or whether they don't recognize the
28:17
Speaker 2: problems that they have. It makes me question the validity
28:21
Speaker 2: of what they're saying as well, like are they just
28:23
Speaker 2: telling me these things because they want me to believe them?
28:26
Speaker 2: Are they saying I'm really frugal because they know that's
28:29
Speaker 2: important to me, But ultimately they're not h so are
28:32
Speaker 2: they lying to me? And ultimately I just think you
28:36
Speaker 2: know that there's that all daying actions speak louder than words,
28:39
Speaker 2: and maybe they aren't comfortable having those money conversations like
28:42
Speaker 2: we were talking about at the top of the episode,
28:44
Speaker 2: and that's okay, But if you're saying one thing and
28:48
Speaker 2: doing another, it says to me that there's a disconnect
28:51
Speaker 2: either within yourself or with me, and either way that's
28:55
Speaker 2: a big issue.
28:55
Speaker 4: I agree, And I think one of the most important
28:58
Speaker 4: things to come out of this episode is not just
29:01
Speaker 4: the red flags, right, Like red flags are going to
29:03
Speaker 4: be different to everybody, Like a red flag could actually
29:05
Speaker 4: just be an ikey feeling that you get about a
29:08
Speaker 4: circumstance that if you wrote it down you'd be like,
29:10
Speaker 4: that makes no sense. But I want you to know
29:12
Speaker 4: that that is a really valid ikey feeling and you
29:14
Speaker 4: can hold onto that and think about it and you
29:16
Speaker 4: can look deeply into that. But I think the one
29:19
Speaker 4: thing that I want you guys to get out of
29:21
Speaker 4: today is to know when to walk away from a situation,
29:23
Speaker 4: a relationship, or you know, anything that is not serving
29:27
Speaker 4: you any longer. And I mean, we live in a
29:29
Speaker 4: world where women are often encouraged in a way to
29:32
Speaker 4: stay in less than ideal circumstances in exchange for financial security,
29:37
Speaker 4: and that's not what we want for the She's on
29:39
Speaker 4: the money community. We want you to be empowered, and
29:42
Speaker 4: we want you to have your emergency funds, and we
29:44
Speaker 4: want you to be able to say no to anything
29:46
Speaker 4: that doesn't respect you or the circumstances or what you
29:49
Speaker 4: have worked towards. Right, So you, personally, each and every
29:52
Speaker 4: single one of you deserve to be in a relationship
29:55
Speaker 4: that serves you, one that aligns to your goals and
29:58
Speaker 4: your values for the future and prior ortizes your well being.
30:01
Speaker 4: And your financial wellbeing and a relationship that is built
30:04
Speaker 4: on mutual respect and trust. And I feel like these
30:07
Speaker 4: red flags are all indicators that those things aren't there.
30:11
Speaker 4: And so from my perspective, I think that such a
30:14
Speaker 4: significant part of this episode is just knowing your worth
30:17
Speaker 4: and knowing that you don't have to put up with
30:19
Speaker 4: financial red flags and we can say no, thank you,
30:22
Speaker 4: this doesn't align to my goals or my values. And
30:24
Speaker 4: as much as walking away can be super, super difficult,
30:28
Speaker 4: it's a way of protecting you when your financial health
30:30
Speaker 4: and your financial future and you need to give yourself
30:33
Speaker 4: the respect you deserve. And I think that's that's what
30:36
Speaker 4: I want you to get out of today, not just
30:38
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, here's a particular red flag, like yeah,
30:40
Speaker 4: the red flags are a bit of a fluffy catchphrasy
30:43
Speaker 4: way of being like, hey, guys, listen to this episode.
30:45
Speaker 2: We want you to know your worth absolutely, And going
30:48
Speaker 2: back to the conversation at side of the show, if
30:50
Speaker 2: you are unsure about anything you're experiencing, if you're feeling
30:54
Speaker 2: like your relationship might be taking a turn for the worst,
30:57
Speaker 2: please have a look at the resources that we've got
30:59
Speaker 2: linked in the show notes talk to your friends and
31:01
Speaker 2: family as well. I think sometimes your girlfriends or your
31:03
Speaker 2: boyfriends are a really good sense check for You'd be like, hey,
31:07
Speaker 2: my date, did this cool or a cool or nah?
31:10
Speaker 2: Usually nah? If you have to ask those usually nah
31:13
Speaker 2: for sure. But you know, if you're going is it
31:16
Speaker 2: just me blowing something out of proportion? Which I think
31:18
Speaker 2: is women we sometimes do a lot.
31:20
Speaker 4: No, not the blowing it out of proportion. We just
31:22
Speaker 4: assume we're blowing it out of proportion when it's usually
31:24
Speaker 4: a crimson flag.
31:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't gaslight yourself. Talk to the chicks, talk to
31:28
Speaker 2: the dudes, get a bit of a sense check on it,
31:31
Speaker 2: and if in doubt, chat it out. Oh I love that.
31:35
Speaker 2: I love that we're keeping that. Get me right, I
31:39
Speaker 2: think we are done.
31:40
Speaker 4: As always, it is paramount that you connect with your
31:42
Speaker 4: friends and support networks if anything has been brought up
31:45
Speaker 4: in this podcast that you would talk about. Obviously, you
31:47
Speaker 4: can chat with our friends from the National Debt Helpline,
31:50
Speaker 4: and there are going to be a heap of resources
31:52
Speaker 4: in the show notes of this episode, so please check
31:55
Speaker 4: them out.
31:55
Speaker 2: See you on Friday, guys. Bye.
32:03
Speaker 4: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
32:06
Speaker 4: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
32:10
Speaker 4: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
32:13
Speaker 4: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
32:17
Speaker 4: If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
32:19
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