Latest / Libido Lounge / Unsexy Habits That Quietly Ruin Relationships with Dr. Emily Jamea

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Unsexy Habits That Quietly Ruin Relationships with Dr. Emily Jamea · Libido Lounge

• 0:00
  Sex is most of the time a physical act.
• 0:03
  Of course, it's hugely emotional and relational and I write and it's an opportunity for self
• 0:08
  expression concepts that I write about extensively in the book.
• 0:11
  You know, I I had kinda noticed an increasing the high number of people in my office
• 0:17
  complaining about this inability to quiet down the mind enough to focus on the sensations of
• 0:25
  Zach.
• 0:26
  I think thanks in large part to our smartphones and the degree to which we're multitasking all
• 0:32
  day long.
• 0:33
  So, you know, when you're having lunch, just sit and have lunch.
• 0:36
  Or when you're having a glass of wine in the evening, just kind of stop what you're doing
• 0:41
  for a second and just actually taste the wine or the coffee or the tea whatever it may be.
• 0:46
  Just elongate the time that you're kind of touching and exploring each other's bodies, so
• 0:53
  that you can make that transition of the chaos of your day and to kind of this sacred space
• 0:59
  that the two of you can share.
• 1:01
  The whole premise of the book draws from flow state sign.
• 1:05
  One of those is clear goals with immediate feedback as to whether or not you're reaching
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  So wanttowantit.com, the name of my book.
• 2:14
  Now back to our show.
• 2:16
  Hi, LAPIDO Lounge members and listeners.
• 2:18
  It's so good to have you back here for another podcast.
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  I had a really exciting guest today.
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  I have doctor Emily Jamia.
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  We are gonna talk about her book, Anatomy of Desire.
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  So we're gonna go deep with this because one of the cool things about having an author on these
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  shows is I get to read these things and formulate all my questions that I have, that I
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  think you might have, and then we get to have a real live chat with doctor Chinia herself.
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  So that's what we're gonna do today.
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  We're gonna talk about what really drives desire.
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  We're gonna talk about safety and this concept of disembodiment, like, when people are just,
• 2:56
  like, not present or not in their body, they're not experiencing the sensation.
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  What's happening there?
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  One of the questions that I'm gonna ask her, which I'm so excited to hear her answer to, and
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  I know you will be too, is if you followed me on this show before, most people I interview
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  say, hey, it is a really, really bad idea to have goal oriented sex.
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  They should not do that.
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  One of the things that Doctor.
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  Emily says on page 52 of her book is that this is not what she says.
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  So we're gonna get to what's going on, why she says this, and so much more.
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  So welcome to the show, Emily.
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  I'm so happy to be here with you.
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  Thank you so much for having me.
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  I am thrilled to be chatting with you today.
• 3:39
  Yeah.
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  It's gonna be such a fun conversation.
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  Let's get started.
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  So let's talk about this concept of disembodiment.
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  So this is something that I know some of our listeners have heard before, and and the way I
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  oftentimes look at disembodiment is, hey, we are not able to feel the sensations in our body
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  sometimes due to things like trauma where we just go into this almost like freeze mechanism.
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  But talk to us about just a little bit more about, like, how you define disembodiment, what
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  it is exactly, and what role does it actually play with desire intimacy?
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  Why is this so important?
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  Yeah.
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  So, you know, sex is most of the time a physical act.
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  Of course, it's hugely emotional and relational, and I write, and it's an
• 4:26
  opportunity for self expression concepts that I write about extensively in the book, but by and
• 4:31
  large, it's a very physical act.
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  And, you know, I I had kinda noticed an increasing the high number of people in my
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  office complaining about this inability to quiet down the mind enough to focus on the
• 4:46
  sensations of sex, you know, they would say things like, I'm there with my partner, we're
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  kinda going through the motions, but then I have these thoughts like, you know, have I
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  registered my kid for summer camp?
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  Do they have coats that fit them for the next season?
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  Did I remember to call my sister back?
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  This like never ending to do list, which, you know, that mental load is a conversation that
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  has become very prominent in the last couple of years, but, you know, I noticed just a huge
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  difference from when I first started working as a therapist to when I, you know, started
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  writing this book, and I started to wonder why that is.
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  And so I actually called up one of my first ever sex therapy supervisors, her name was
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  Doctor.
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  Ruth Sherman, not the Doctor.
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  Ruth, but another wonderful Doctor.
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  Ruth, to ask her if this was a problem that she remembered her patients complaining of.
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  And the reason I called her specifically is because at the time she was my supervisor when
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  I was just a baby sex therapist, She had retired from seeing clients, so this would have
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  been back in like 02/2008, 02/2009.
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  And people had smartphones, but we were not as app driven as we are this day and age.
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  Like Instagram, I think, had maybe not even come out yet as an app.
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  So, you know, I I asked her if she remembered her patients complaining about this.
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  She took a few days to get back to me, and she said, you know, Emily, I definitely had people
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  who would get distracted over things like body image concerns, or I had men worried about
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  losing their erection, but she said this never ending chitter chatter in people's heads that
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  you're describing, she said, I I thought a lot about it, and I just don't remember that being
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  a complaint, which kinda confirmed my hypothesis, which is that we are becoming
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  increasingly disembodied as a society.
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  I think thanks in large part to our smartphones, and the degree to which we're
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  multitasking all day long.
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  You know, our devices allow us to listen to a podcast when we're out for a walk, or check
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  emails while we're sitting down for lunch, or read the news when we're stopped at a traffic
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  light.
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  So you cannot expect to go from split attention all day long to the singular focus of sex.
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  You know, not just that, but our calendars are just, I think, overly full with commitments and
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  obligations.
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  Our lives have just become a lot busier.
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  And, you know, so I just don't think it's realistic to go from split attention all day
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  long, you know, or two people who are just busier, kinda living like two ships passing in
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  the night, to then, you know, deciding on a moment's notice to reconnect and stay fully
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  present and engage with the body during sex.
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  And so, you know, this is the focus, I would say, the sensuality chapter of the book.
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  It's kinda like how to Marie Kundo your sex life and and really get back to the basics, but
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  in a really deep and meaningful way, and and, and so, yeah, that's kinda what that's about.
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  Well, and you you kinda started answering my second question, which my second question was
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  gonna be like, how common really is this, right, from a standpoint of like statistics and
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  that sort of thing?
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  And it sounds like what you're saying is like, hey, in talking to one of your mentors, like,
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  it's becoming, like, increasingly more common that this is happening over time based upon
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  things like multitasking smartphones, how much we are pulled in different ways, and ultimately
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  being pulled in different ways where I'm, like, I can put my mind on this, and I can put my
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  mind on this, and I can put my mind on this, ultimately means we're probably not putting our
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  mind on the sensations of our body.
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  Correct?
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  Exactly.
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  Precisely, and that's what embodiment is all about.
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  It's a step beyond mindfulness.
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  You know, mindfulness is such a buzzword, and we hear it all the time, and it's a great tool
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  for a number of things, and it's a wonderful first step.
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  You know, mindfulness is all about noticing the intrusive thought, but then kind of detaching
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  from it emotionally and redirecting your attention back into the body, but that sort of
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  this kind of back and forth of noticing the thought coming back into the body, noticing the
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  thought coming back into the body.
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  People who are truly embodied, especially when they're doing things like enjoying a meal or
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  out for a walk or having a really great sexual experience, don't have those thoughts at all
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  because they are so fully present in the body.
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  I love one thing that embodiment expert Mark Walsh says, which is that mindfulness is kind
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  of like being aware of the body, but embodiment is being aware as the body.
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  So we The differentiation.
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  I love it.
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  It's just a simple change in proposition, but it kinda packs a major punch.
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  I mean, it's a huge shift.
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  And so, you know, people in my study or, like, in Peggy Kleinplatz's research as well, which
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  sort of, have a very large part kind of inspired my work, you know, talks about how,
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  you know, people will say things like, you know, my hand went there because that's what it
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  wanted to do.
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  You know?
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  So it's it's a really, to a large extent, kinda deeper level of presence with the body and with
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  the five senses, while at the same time kinda holding space for your partner's experience as
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  well.
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  You're really doing a good job of just like leading me perfectly into the next question, so
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  I ask, which is wonderful.
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  I'm the first rodeo.
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  So
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  so Well, you've mentioned something in just what you said that you also said on page
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  eighteen and nineteen of your book, which is about using things like movement and eating,
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  like, these types of things can be ways of practicing embodiment, that these can actually
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  be embodied types of activities.
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  So my question for you then is, like, how do you, from a standpoint of actionable steps, you
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  know, people are listening to this and being like, wow, I'm definitely not embodied most of
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  the time, which frankly, I think is actually a lot of humans, how do people begin to recognize
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  like, this is like truly, I am not in my body, like what what is that point of like, oh,
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  right, here's me not in my body, here's me coming back to my body?
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  Yeah.
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  I think what I hear most often is is phrases like, I just feel like we're going through the
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  motions, and you know, I'm physically present, but I'm not emotionally engaged.
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  So, you know, but even that that statement, I'm physically present, I would argue, I guess,
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  because you know, if you're not engaged with the body, yes, you may be there, but you're not
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  really present.
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  So, know, what I encourage people to do, especially if this is their issue, is to do
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  little things, especially on a day when they're wanting to have better than average sex, single
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  task as much as possible.
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  It's, you know, it's kind of a, like, a little muscle we have to start flexing, you know.
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  I I write in the book, you cannot expect to walk to run a marathon if you've never walked
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  around the block.
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  So, you know, when you're having lunch, just sit and have lunch, or when you're having a
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  glass of wine in the evening, just kinda stop what you're doing for a second and just
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  actually taste the wine or the coffee or the tea or whatever it may be.
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  You know, people in my research, you know, talked about how they were the kind of people
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  to stop and smell the roses when they were out for a walk, or you know, they would really
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  notice the sensation of the shower in the morning.
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  So, you know, as much as possible, practice throughout the day being present in the body.
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  And then aside from that, there's lots of little ways to transition from the chaos of the
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  day to day into the body space that's required for truly embodied sex.
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  So I'll tell people to do things like, you know, take literally thirty seconds.
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  You don't need more than that just to do some deep diaphragmatic breathing to calm the
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  nervous system, or, you know, when you and your partner start to engage, just elongate the time
• 13:02
  that you're kind of touching and exploring each other's bodies, so that you can make that
• 13:08
  transition of the chaos of your day into kind of this sacred space that the two of you can
• 13:14
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  Now let's get back to our episode.
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  You know, a lot of people rush through sex, and oftentimes don't give it the time it needs to
• 14:18
  get into a focused state.
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  So we know from research, like on focus and attention, that it takes people on average,
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  like twelve to fifteen minutes to get into a highly focused state, and when that focus is
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  broken by something like a ping on the phone, it can take twenty five minutes to regain that
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  focus, and so, you know, there's a lot I think to be said about that, because, you know,
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  oftentimes people don't even have sex for twelve to fifteen minutes.
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  And so if the goal is to work on embodiment, and presence, and to awaken the five senses,
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  you know, if I had to put everything down in kind of a a nugget piece of advice, it would be
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  to slow down, way down, you know, and talk to your partner about that.
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  I I was just kinda scrolling on my Instagram the other day, and this sex coach shared a post
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  that I thought was so great.
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  She said, you know, we think of arousal and kind of foreplay as this very you're kind of
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  trying to excite someone, like activate the nervous system, but she's like, what if we
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  think about it more as like a grounding experience?
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  And I was like, yes.
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  Like, that is exactly what I'm talking about here.
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  You know, I personally noticed I needed that a lot more after having kids, you know.
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  I needed to kind of have a a more kind of present.
• 15:42
  I'm like, can you just kind of massage me in like a non sexual way, you know, for five, ten
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  minutes, so that I can make that transition, and so I think just when we're busy, and we're
• 15:53
  working, and we have a million commitments, or especially for people who have young kids at
• 15:57
  home, you know, these are the kinds of steps you need to take to start to get back in touch
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  with the senses and wake them up again.
• 16:05
  Yeah.
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  I've seen that so much in my work too around the massage, the bath, the even co showering,
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  like, and just, like, being there, holding each other, and just, like Yeah.
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  You know, just those types of activities.
• 16:17
  Like, we don't count those those things as foreplay, but in some ways, like, that's, like,
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  the most pivotal foreplay around, like, getting inside one's body, but having those practices
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  to actually do that before we actually go past there, because it's so easy to be just checked
• 16:31
  out into the day, the task, the things you forgot to do at work without those those
• 16:37
  situations, without that support.
• 16:40
  Yeah.
• 16:40
  So then moving on to one of our, you know, teasers for the episode here around because
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  this I found to be super interesting what you said on page 52, and you said that ninety nine
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  percent of sex therapists say that you should not have goal oriented sex.
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  And I know, you know, a lot of the way that this a lot of the reason for this is that, hey,
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  we don't want to hyper focus on orgasm, and so that's where a lot of this comes from is like,
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  hey, hyper focus on orgasm sometimes puts the pressure on, and that leads to oftentimes it
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  backfiring.
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  So, you know, you specifically in your book say, like, not me, which I just, you know, I
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  love your your your call out on that.
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  Yeah.
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  But I wanna know why.
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  Why not you?
• 17:22
  Why are
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  you a I bad know.
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  It's a bit it's a bit heretical.
• 17:27
  But yes, you know, it's not bad advice per se to to not have goal oriented sex, and of
• 17:33
  course, the idea is so that you you focus on the kind of those moment by moment pleasures,
• 17:38
  and there's so much to be discovered in the moment and and less in the outcome like the
• 17:44
  orgasm or having you know, sustaining the erection or whatever it may be.
• 17:48
  However, you know, the book, it the whole premise of the book draws from flow state
• 17:54
  science.
• 17:54
  So just briefly, you know, flow state is a decades old term coined by American Hungarian
• 18:01
  psychologist, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.
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  It describes the state of mind that we enter when we are so fully engaged, focused, and
• 18:09
  absorbed in an activity that, you know, time and space kinda disappear.
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  It has we have experienced a sense of effortlessness.
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  You know, think of a surfer who's at one with the wave.
• 18:20
  And when we look at flow state science, we see that there are eight core components of flow.
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  You don't have to have them all at the same time, but usually you have, you know, a few of
• 18:31
  them at once, and and you can say, yeah, I think I was in a flow state.
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  One of those is clear goals with immediate feedback as to whether or not you're reaching
• 18:40
  those goals, and it's one of the most predictable ways to get into flow.
• 18:45
  And I think it's best illustrated by, you know, think of like a musical band.
• 18:52
  Right?
• 18:52
  They have a goal.
• 18:53
  They have a song that they are working together to perform, and they know right in the moment
• 18:59
  whether someone is off key or makes a misstep with their instrument that that goal maybe
• 19:04
  isn't being reached optimally, and so they'll readjust that they as a group can meet their
• 19:09
  goal.
• 19:09
  Same with a sports team, you know, they can't stop and talk through every move when they're
• 19:14
  out there on a field.
• 19:15
  There's a cohesiveness, a synchrony that we see, and again, when someone makes a misstep,
• 19:20
  they're then working against the goal of winning the game.
• 19:23
  So they talk at length about what their goals are.
• 19:26
  We can look at, you know, the BDSM and Kink community.
• 19:30
  Tons of goal setting to create these scenes that they have envisioned playing out in their
• 19:37
  head, and a lot of conversation around things like boundaries and safe words and and that
• 19:42
  sort of thing, and we know that people in the BDSM community experience flow state more
• 19:47
  frequently than people who, you know, kind of have more vanilla sex.
• 19:51
  Not that you have to have BDSM to experience flow, and I write about this in the book, but
• 19:56
  this idea of being clear about what you're wanting from the experience, I think, is a bit
• 20:03
  of a reframe that we can pull from occasionally to, to add a bit more intention to what we're
• 20:11
  doing.
• 20:12
  Because when we are intentional about what we want from the experience, we can work together
• 20:18
  as a team to create the desired experience.
• 20:22
  And sometimes it may be things like, hey, I wanna see if I can have multiple orgasms, you
• 20:27
  know, let's play with that today.
• 20:30
  Or, you know, I sometimes it's more meaning making, like, god, I just want this, you know,
• 20:36
  when we make love tonight, I want it to feel really romantic, and tender, and soft.
• 20:41
  And so everyone shows up with that intention, and when you're intentional about something,
• 20:47
  you focus on it, and flow follows focus.
• 20:51
  So anything we can do to help drive focus is gonna be more likely to get us into that flow
• 20:57
  state.
• 20:58
  Yeah.
• 20:58
  It's so beautifully said.
• 21:00
  I see that in my own relationship too around certain things where it's like, oh, we're gonna
• 21:04
  play with this tantric breath work practice tonight, for example, or like when you're
• 21:08
  talking about like the different feelings, I have different playlists for the type of
• 21:12
  intimacy that we want that night, whether it's gonna be, you know, like, way more just, like,
• 21:19
  sweet and that sort of thing versus just, like, way more intense.
• 21:23
  Right?
• 21:23
  That's gonna have a very different type of setting.
• 21:27
  And so Yeah.
• 21:27
  You will even set the stage and be like, oh, yeah.
• 21:29
  This is the playlist we evoke that versus this is the playlist we evoke that.
• 21:33
  Yes.
• 21:33
  That's a perfect example.
• 21:35
  That's exactly what I'm talking Beautiful.
• 21:37
  And then, so talk to us, because you talk about this too in your book on page two forty seven
• 21:41
  when you talk about the flow state.
• 21:42
  You talk about transient hypofrontality.
• 21:45
  So tell us about that.
• 21:47
  What is that, and how does that influence flow?
• 21:49
  Yeah.
• 21:49
  Such a wonderful, like, brain phenomenon that happens when we're in a flow state.
• 21:56
  And, you know, I I like to talk about it in comparison to the honeymoon stage, you know,
• 22:02
  because everyone is looking back to the honeymoon stage as kind of the, you know, the
• 22:08
  place that they're trying to get back to, but nobody in my research cited the honeymoon stage
• 22:14
  as the best sex.
• 22:16
  They all talked about sex that happened way later, so that's one a huge myth that we have
• 22:21
  to move away from.
• 22:22
  And when we're looking at what's happening neurochemically in the brain during the
• 22:27
  honeymoon stage, you know, of course we have a ton of dopamine, which is the reward chemical.
• 22:31
  We've got the oxytocin from all the physical touch, which feels really good.
• 22:36
  We've got norepinephrine, which kinda makes us feel charged up.
• 22:40
  But we experience a dip in serotonin, And that's a problem because what serotonin what
• 22:47
  serotonin does is make us feel kind of calm, steady, and at ease.
• 22:51
  You know, people who have low serotonin levels have things like anxiety and OCD, and because
• 22:57
  those levels dip in the honeymoon stage, why we kind of obsess over whether or not that new
• 23:01
  person is gonna call us back, and we kind of ruminate over them, and it it kind of creates
• 23:05
  anxiety early on.
• 23:07
  When we're in a flow state, however, and and we'll talk kind of about what that transient
• 23:12
  hypofrontality is, we we get the dopamine, we get the oxytocin, you know, through the sex, we
• 23:19
  get the norepinephrine, We also get endorphins, which can help us forget the pain that we're
• 23:25
  in.
• 23:25
  I actually talked to a lot of people in my research who were chronic pain sufferers, or
• 23:30
  who had chronic illness, who actually turned to sex as a way to forget their pain.
• 23:35
  We get anandamide, helps tighten focus, and we get a boost in serotonin.
• 23:41
  So you actually get a much more potent neurochemical cocktail during flow state than
• 23:47
  you do in the honeymoon phase, And, part of what causes that is this transient hypo
• 23:53
  mortality, so what that means is that the prefrontal cortex part of the brain, which is
• 23:58
  where our executive function or higher order cognitive thinking happens, things like, you
• 24:03
  know, rationality, decision making, planning, kind of that that monkey brain, it goes quiet.
• 24:11
  So when we're in a flow state, we're not really using more of the brain as you might expect,
• 24:16
  we're in fact using less of the brain.
• 24:18
  And, when that part of the brain goes quiet, because it also kind of houses our personality
• 24:25
  and sense of self, we're no longer self conscious.
• 24:29
  So the body image issues disappear, the, you know, insecurity disappears, the self doubt,
• 24:36
  the worry about quote unquote performance, which is a word my clients are not allowed to
• 24:41
  use, all of that quiets down because of this experience.
• 24:47
  So it's it's pretty fun.
• 24:48
  Yeah.
• 24:48
  It's so great.
• 24:50
  And everybody, we are gonna wrap up today's episode, but I wanna let you know some Emily
• 24:54
  has some amazing bonuses for you guys.
• 24:56
  We're gonna talk about those.
• 24:58
  We're gonna continue this conversation because some of what that some of what was just said,
• 25:04
  it's really important to think about, okay, well, what is happening at that beginning of
• 25:07
  the relationship?
• 25:08
  And, you know, and there's vulnerability there.
• 25:10
  And another thing Emily talks about in her book is this concept of of vulnerability and where
• 25:15
  that plays in at different points of the relationship and how that impacts sex and
• 25:20
  intimacy and desire and all that.
• 25:22
  And I also wanna cover with her in part two the concept of attunement because she says that
• 25:28
  this is one of the most important parts of sex is attunement, and I could not agree more.
• 25:33
  So we're gonna talk about that and so much more in part two.
• 25:36
  So I'm gonna link below this video how you access part two.
• 25:41
  But before we do that, I wanna make sure everybody knows how to get ahold of your book,
• 25:45
  your bonuses, and everything you have for us today.
• 25:47
  So can you share Thank
• 25:49
  you so much.
• 25:49
  Yes.
• 25:50
  So you if you purchase the book, you can visit my website, which is emilyjimiya.com, and
• 25:56
  there's an online form you fill out there, and you get access to hundreds of dollars worth of
• 26:01
  free bonuses with qualified book book purchases.
• 26:04
  So I have things like, you know, access to my master class, the intimacy discussion deck.
• 26:09
  I have a thirty day intimacy challenge, a pleasure playlist.
• 26:13
  You know, we were talking about music.
• 26:15
  So all, like, tons of goodies are there for you to check out.
• 26:18
  So it's a really good deal.
• 26:20
  And then if you wanna follow along for more daily tips, you can follow me across all the
• 26:24
  socials at d r emily jamia.
• 26:27
  Amazing.
• 26:28
  Well, thank you so much, and thank you for being here.
• 26:30
  And everybody, it's been a pleasure as always to have you here with me.
• 26:34
  Please do subscribe and share this with your friends.
• 26:36
  We'll see you again soon.
• 26:38
  Ciao for now.
• 26:41
  Thank you for listening to the libido lounge.
• 26:43
  Please don't keep me a secret.
• 26:45
  Please share this with your friends.
• 26:47
  You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.