Latest / The High-Performing Technical Leader / Ep.5- The Revenue Impact of Enablement Most Teams Miss with Yotam Rotgoltz

Transcript

Ep.5- The Revenue Impact of Enablement Most Teams Miss with Yotam Rotgoltz · The High-Performing Technical Leader

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello, everybody.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you're catching us live or later on the recording, I'm super excited to be here.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: I am RV.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the founder of Elite Talent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: I work with SaaS companies to hire top-tier pre-sales and post-sales talent, but today is not about me.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Today is really about showing the leaders building the go-to-market teams and the strategies that actually work in today's market.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, one quick note before we jump in here and I'll introduce my lovely guest today.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: These conversations are live and intentionally unedited.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: So what you hear here today is real and exactly how it happened.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: We obviously stream this live, but you also get to catch the replay on our podcasts across across Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: If you get value from the conversation, make sure to follow, subscribe, or leave a review.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: I personally always read every single one of them.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: With that being said, today I'm super excited to be joined by Yodam.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he is the sales engineering lead and onboarding manager for Rep AI.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he has a strong track record in the space.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, thank you so much for being here, Yodam.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very excited to hear about your story and all the value you're going to share today.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, RV.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, glad to be here.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I'm I'm excited to be here as well.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for inviting me.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to just give everybody a quick background about your story.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: How did you even end up in pre-sales and go to market leadership?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, well, that's a great question.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been in the pre-sale sales engineering, I would place call it a little differently, for a little over seven years now.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my background story in getting to this world of this profession that I love and hope to do for the rest of my career is um a little unconventional.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually started out my, well, if we look at my the beginning of my career, I was uh well, I was an intelligence officer in one of the special forces units in the IDF.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, worked a little bit with for some intelligence organizations afterwards, a little hush-hash work.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when it time to figure out uh what to do, let's say, is my uh more of a my adult career, uh, there was several several options of what to do, um what to go to Linton College.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually I decided to study law and philosophy, um, which is a bit of uh, again, unconventional practice with someone in pre-sales.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, made my, although it it uh becoming a lawyer made my parents really happy at the time, but after a relatively short period of working in the profession, I realized it's not really for me.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I like more to work with people and not arguing against people in a court of law.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to solve problems.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: So based on my um technical knowledge and experience, mostly from the service, um, I got a first position in a company that sold uh business intelligence and intelligence products and was actually the first pre-sale there.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And from then on, I moved more to uh working in companies in cybersecurity and the AI field, all the way to what I do today as the sales engineering lead and operating engineer in repai.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: RepAI is uh, in my opinion, in uh the leading AI uh company for e-commerce businesses.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we help to solve the by basically creating, let's say, a little bit of a ChatGPT experience for uh for our customers within their website.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And as part of that, I'm in charge of all of the pre-sale elements as well as the onboarding.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm gonna backtrack real quick and just say like it feels like you got the best of both worlds here with pre-sales, um, still solving problems, but not necessarily in front of a court of law to be able to do that.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I did want to ask one quick question.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of people don't necessarily start conventionally in pre-sales.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, first of all, how did you discover pre-sales?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the how did that role come about?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the second question here is a lot of people ask me this question of like, okay, how do I transition?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not in pre-sales.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: How do I transition?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, what made it that gave you or that company that gave you the chance of transitioning to pre-sales?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, and and this is a theme that I always speak about when it comes to the pre-sale profession.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, a good pre-sale professional is a little bit like a Swiss Army knife.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: He has a lot of skills.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, some of them are more, let's say, hard skills, technical skills, analytical skills.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are more customer-facing, soft skills, commercial skills.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that combination, in my opinion, that makes uh a good presal great.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the that fact actually allows to a relatively wide range of people from different professions to move to transition into the pre-sale world.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you were, let's say, more in a in um uh technical role, uh, a developer, an engineer, an analyst, um, you still have that technical capability and a technical know-how and the understanding of how things work in the backhand.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you can maybe just improve a little bit of your soft skills, of your more commercial skills, and transition into that world.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, same way if you maybe then into a more customer-facing role, account executive, customer success, um uh self-representative, stuff like that.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's of course depends on the company and the role, but it's really easy today to expand your knowledge on technical elements.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to necessarily go to college or university and get your CS degree or an engineering degree.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of courses and options to increase your knowledge.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And in that case, all of the soft skills that you've uh encouraged during your career can be very helpful.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I do see, and and I mentor a few people who are interested in transitioning into the SE world, that that range of uh that flexibility and professions can be really helpful.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: In case of, let's say, more junior roles, um, it's sometimes a little bit more difficult, but I do see people getting into uh sales engineering roles after they've been uh as part of support teams, as uh as sales development representatives, uh developers.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the the case always happens to transition into that position, regardless of what your previous uh career path was.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm and I think I'm I'm a good proof uh proof of that.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I totally agree with what you said because um, at least even the clients that we work with, um, it'll be times where they just want somebody that was strictly a software developer, right?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: And they want to get into pre-sales or more customer-facing.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't think that there is like a wrong background to be in, especially for pre-sales, because like you said, it's such a Swiss army knife type of role.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so a lot of people can fit into it.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I will just add on top of what you said that if you are looking to break into the space, the easiest way is to go after the vendors or the types of companies that you already have experience with and go after those first, right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Or whoever you've used the product with.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: So at least you have knowledge of that product and it can make it a little bit easier to transition.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I love how you broke that down.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for doing that.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I do want to shift gears more into your actual role now and enablement and you know all that fun stuff.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously, you're working for a smaller startup.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think one of the biggest things when it comes to startups is that enablement is often often informal.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything that usually breaks first when there's no clear onboarding or enablement process in place when it comes to either a current team member or to team members or as you're hiring new ones?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, and and this is in many cases the challenge in in small startups, is that there isn't necessarily uh uh a strict guidelines or uh or a static process.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, based on my experience, what I usually see that breaks first, especially in the cell side, that it creates more friction and lampest uh makes the process lengthier.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And as one of my previous managers told me, uh time kills deals.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: So even though um everything is possibly working well, it's working slower.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there is that eventually leads to lower win rates.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um now when we're looking at it, let's say after the deal has uh been closing and it moves more to the CS side, and the onboarding and enablement is a little bit more on, let's say, advanced training on the solution or the platform for the customers.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: If there is a steady process there, it usually, again, in my experience, um, reduces the con the customer's confidence with the system and with their ability to use the system.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that creates to more workload on the on the support team, on the customer success, and to try to solve problems for those end users and again uh increase the churn risk.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, when we and and it's something that is usually a work in progress in small startups, but step by step we're getting there.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, when we create those processes, we shorten the sales cycles, we create more confidence with the platform and for the user to use that platform, and reduce the turn rate on the churn risk on the long run because the user knows how to use the system, understand the system's value, and in many cases, even enjoys using it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, very, very, very cool answer.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I I definitely tend to agree with it.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I'll kind of piggyback on this one because I it kind of relates to my second question is obviously you wear multiple hats across sales engineering and onboarding and customer success.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is it what you just mentioned that really tends to have the biggest impact on whether a deal actually sticks or not?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or is there other parts of enablement on how you know owners or founders or even leaders in the space can try to prioritize in your experience?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that again, um in the case of sales engineering of pre-sales, as we wear those those multiple hats, uh, we need to be the main point of content and the main pivot, both uh when it comes to the sales cycle and a little bit after when it moved to to CS.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, in we're focusing on the on-boarding elements uh in the when the sales cycle is still on.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: It is still um, like in all of the standard POCs or POVs or trials, is proving the value, proving the that the system really works, that delivers the value and the result that we want to show, and being a little bit more hands-on with uh explaining the customer how everything is done, doing a lot of the elements for them, but still with a little bit of um of um wouldn't say education, but in a in a training capacity to some extent.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So explaining that you know when you'll move forward, you'll be able to do X, Y, and Z just like I'm doing.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but here's how it works.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Here uh here are the results.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: When it moves to the phase after the deal has been has uh has closed, and a little bit before uh the handover to CS is completed, then we're we're really uh getting into the nitty-gritty.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Then you move more from uh, let's say, uh a parent who teaches their children how to walk from afar to a trainer that needs to run with them the miles, that needs to score the goals with them, that needs to show them how everything is done, so they'll be able to do it in themselves.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, bottom line, while in the sales cycle, it's more about okay, here's how it works, here's the value, a little bit of this is how uh how I'm gonna do it for you.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: When we go into the real onboarding, to the advanced training, this is how we teach them how to do it themselves.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, very true.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any um any common enablement or onboarding mistakes that you see teams make that either slow that adaptation or herd long-term revenue for the company?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I would say usually, let's say misalignment internally or um um problems with communications.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And this is both in cases with let's say uh internal GTM teams as well as internal uh um technical teams like the product and RD.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll give you know a very short example that I experienced in the past.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: If um I, let's say, got a question or uh or uh a need from a customer explaining on how to do something with the system, and I wasn't aligned with uh the sales leader who led the sales cycle as well as the relevant product manager and how exactly are we gonna do it and how we're gonna explain it to the customer that creates that friction that I talked about.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that makes things unclear for us and clear for the customer, uh, which is problematic.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um additionally, I think that when we want to make uh a proper process for onboarding in during the sell cycle and after, it's important to try, and you know, it's a little bit of a cliche, but um, to get all of your ducts in a row, both from our side, which usually do, but also from the customer side.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, if we uh expect, let's say that we want to deploy our product or a solution on um only a specific environment with the customers uh from the customer's side, or let's say if we're talking about OSI only on certain pages, it's something that we need to understand from as early as possible and not get it, you know, once we've started the the process with the with the customer, and if it needs to involve their developers as well.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that you know alignment and communication are the best uh best courses of action, uh, both internally with our team and then of course with the customer as well.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's that's great.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually gonna ask you how can we catch it before it happens, but you were ahead of me, so it's great.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: What um I will ask you this though.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: In today's market, the the buyer persona has evolved a lot, right?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody kind of catches on to things more quick and things like that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything that you see lately that really has helped in pre-sales uh with closing deals or getting them over the finish line that maybe you either weren't doing before or have noticed recently?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, wow, this is like this is uh this is working better right now.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um interesting question.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think that you know the the AI revolution hasn't uh skipped the the pre-sale profession, and it is something that um a lot of the both the tools that are known for everyone, uh ChatGPT, Clock, the likes, that in the past, if I needed, and I'm not a developer, I do have uh some experience in writing code and developing, but again, I'm not I'm not a software engineer or developer.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: But if in the past, uh, in order to do uh let's say internal fixes or changes within the system, I could have started it myself, but I needed the help of uh someone from the RD team to make sure that everything works properly or QA, now I can do it much more easily and faster than I did uh five or even two years ago.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one element.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh additionally, when it comes to a lot of the um let's say in-between missions uh um that are more of uh I don't know, I wouldn't call like uh emails, like messages, like correspondence with the customer, yeah, uh drafting elements, AI is is of course helping.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: I do know, and I still haven't uh had the personal experience with that, that the world of um uh software which are aimed for uh for pre-sale professionals, uh for better demos, for better POCs is evolving.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I had some experience with that, which was helpful, but I believe that we're still see, we can still see a lot uh expanding in there that can be helpful.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think that AI obviously, I think everybody has noticed at this point and has honestly, I don't think I've ran into a company nowadays that hasn't implemented some sort of AI, uh, probably because they are extinct already in that point at that point.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: But um, it does give you a lot more capacity, right?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: It helps speed up your process in your role, but also the um the sales cycle.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, if you just had this one quick question that a software developer or software engineer can solve, but I can ask AI and it can help me solve it in the spot as I'm on the call with the with the customer, with the client, then that will help me get that answer instead of saying, hey, I'll get back to you.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I agree.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think AI has been really, really awesome in that regard.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, with that being said, I I'll just ask this since we're in the AI topic.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't personally think it's gonna replace humans or pre-sales or even sales anytime soon.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Can it help accelerate things and do certain things for them?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, what is your opinion on that?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I believe that in in GTM roles and sales and pre-sales and customer success, uh, customers still need that uh that human connection, that um person that they can speak with, that they can share their problems with.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: That um one of the things that I've experienced with AI is uh first, AI is very eager to please sometimes.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um which is which is great, but sometimes you need to know how to say um no, or we can't necessarily do it this way, but we can do XYZ.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: And AI currently I don't I don't really think that has that capability.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so don't know if you've heard about the notion of uh what we call AI hallucinations, that because it's eager to please, yeah, it sometimes twists the truth a little bit, uh, which a human wouldn't and shouldn't do.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't, yeah.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and beside that, of course, that human connection, that uh that close relationship, both in the sales cycle and of course it's pre-sale uh and customer success, I think is really important.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't see users and customers uh uh skipping it anytime soon.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, agreed.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think the more AI the world becomes and the more automated, the more we crave human connection.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was actually speaking to a different leader the other day, and he was saying how of course, you know, a lot of things are being automated right now, but people are craving that human connection more than ever.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: So even like in-person sales is kind of coming back because people like to see you, like to not feel you per se in the literal word, but uh in the subjective word of like see the person, see the company, you know, all that stuff.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a very interesting uh buyer market right now in that sense.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and in a funny way, I was actually at a conference and the uh HubSpot CMO was speaking and she was saying how uh, you know, we're trying to automate as much as we can.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: But if somebody were to reach out to me and I could tell that that is automation, that's a turnoff for me, and I probably wouldn't respond.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's you know, it's very funny uh how more AI.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: We need more human connection.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think, you know, I think that the the uh smart and really innovative companies will the one that will know to use AI with a combination of the human connection and to make the AI um, I wouldn't say as human as possible, but more human than it is today.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can, for example, tell you that the example that what we're doing, what one of our rep AI solutions is aimed to uh build a little bit like that cell representative that um you meet when you go into a brick and mortar store.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not the one that jumps on you when you enter the store and hey, how can I help you?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And in many cases, deter people in real life.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: But being that type of one that identifies when you need help, when you're about to be uh disengaged and basically like leave the store and see how they can help you.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, if you'll ask it a question or need any help, he'll know it will know how to answer you.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: So just like we're doing that today, I believe that similar companies that will know to make the AI more human are the ones that's gonna have that axe cractor and continue on.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's actually a really great point because it has me thinking if I'm in a store and somebody asks me, Hey, what can I help you with?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: My typical answer is, you know, I'm just looking.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like if I have AI ask me that question, I might be more prone to actually answer what I'm actually looking for because in my mind, I just at least right now, I think okay, AI can sell me, I can be open and honest to the AI and they can actually help me.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I can see how that is useful.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's actually a really cool product that you guys have.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty awesome.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, cool.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I would love to shift gears a little bit more into like the talent side of things.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: So when it comes to like enablement roles or even sales engineering, and in your case, obviously they're kind of mixed together.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a trait that companies look for early on that is important for this role to have?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think if we're if we're focusing specifically on more enablement and let's say onboarding roles, um, it needs to have, let's say, a little bit of a teacher or mentor mentality that they really want to make sure that the end user, that the customer learns and understands and properly uses uh the system or the solution, and have this uh um again uh teacher or mentor mentality that they know how to answer questions, they know how to uh explain complex subjects to uh possibly not so technical people uh and do it in in simple ways and in uh sometimes what what I like to do is to do it in a in a fun way or use it in a creative way.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think that that one of the the most important traits when it comes to specifically onboarding and enablement sessions.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sorry.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um when we're talking about, you know, I think that when we're talking about pre-sale and sales engineering roles um as a whole, it needs to be again, we're going back to that uh that Swiss Army knife uh example.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a good pre-sale needs to know wear both hats, the technical and analytical one, as well as the customer-facing uh uh commercial one, let's say.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that that combination of being that Swiss Army knife is is the way to uh be the best uh pre-sale that you can be.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's important to know the fact that you are a priest uh a Swiss Army knife doesn't necessarily mean that all of your tools are in uh 100% uh capacity.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Capacity, right?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Some some people have you are are better with the technical elements, some people are better in the soft skill.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's just need to know how to leverage your own strengths.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um specific also, I think that you know, and and this is specifically for startup, but I think it's it's helpful in any type of company.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so determination and resilience.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are a lot of uh a lot of unknowns, in many cases, a little bit like you spoke in the beginning, there's not necessarily um specific guidelines or processes.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: You need to know how to build them.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And as uh I think those are like the the best rates that someone needs to have when uh starting to work in a startup.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to dive a little bit deeper into the examples that you mentioned because I think in pre-sales and enablement too, we we hear this word a lot around wow, around a lot.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: That was a mouthful.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, where it's like I need them to be able to explain technical things, you know, in a very simple way.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any tips or tricks?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you mentioned in a funny way.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is there any tips or tricks that you have for anybody watching this that could say, like, you know, how how do I pull from that, right?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I have an idea on how to do it, but what is our some like technical steps that you take to actually implement that?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, as part of just like you leverage your own strength, leverage your own um your own uh experiences and your own world.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it can it doesn't necessarily have to be in the professional stuff, it can be in the personal stuff.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'll give um I'll give an example.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um so for me, um it's it's one of the previous companies that that I work with was also uh an e-commerce company in the AI um oracle.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to use the the example of what is the difference when in order to explain different capabilities of the system when it came out to the came to the AI.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: What is the difference when I'm shopping for something for my wife compared to what uh what is when I'm shopping for something for my my two-year-old son?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what I also really like to do is uh let's say compare things to to let's say my hobbies.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I enjoy working out, diving, reading, and traveling.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I can give certain examples based on that.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that one of the best ways is of course doing it on yourself is easier, but try to get a little bit into the to the mindset and even to the again personal life mindset of uh of your customer or user.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know that um here's an example.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one of our customers was um heavy into um surfing.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm a diver, he's a surfer, so it's two different worlds, but we both uh spend a lot of the time uh in the water.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'm terrible at surfing.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I did it once and I I was under the water uh more time than I was on the board.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: I never tried it, but I think I would be too.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's um it's uh it's a thrill and it's uh it's a wonderful thing.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So basically what the system is going to do is a little bit like it's gonna start and then I use that metaphor that fit into that person's personal life, and he got it.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: He got it, yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um really quick, I wanted to add this.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I might be butchering this name, but a line.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he said, as an AE, I always ensure my relationship with my SE is solid when you can play off of each other with prospects and clients, that's where the magic happens.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd love for you to put your own opinion into this and your experience as to, you know, is there any tips or anything that you think can really solidify the AE and the S E relationship?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: How can they get together and work together more like a partnership versus like a me versus you thing?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, and thanks to Elaine, and I hope uh uh I hope I pronounced this right as well.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a great, uh, a great point, and I really believe that uh the best AESE relationships are the one of true partnerships.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it is a subject of another lecture that I'm working on to to give to uh ALE leaders in uh in Israel in the future, but that's another topic.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I really like the there's two examples that um that I really like.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: One of the both are a little bit about partnerships uh in the AESC world.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: One is uh the relationship between uh a fighter pilot and the navigator in a fighter jet.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh both of them fly the plane together, both of them have their own capabilities.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, however, it's important to know that the fire the pilot sits in the front and the navigator sits in the back.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And in some, and I know at least in some old aircrafts, um only one of them had the joystick of where the plane would go.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this is okay, but it's not perfect.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh they both have their own roles, they both have uh their own capabilities, they are flying the jet together, but eventually there is one person who will make the final decision, and that's usually the AE.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's another example of a partnership, again from the aviation world, of a helicopter, in which both pilots sit side by side.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Both of them have the joystick.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually, there is the commander and the second in command, and the commander will uh decide eventually how where the helicopter will fly, but it will do it will do it with um in a cooperation with the the second in command.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: The second in command, in many cases, can take over if needed on the helicopter if there is uh if there is a problem, and both of them basically decide how um on the flight is going to be together.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the bottom line is really to know how to work together with partnership, involve your SEs in the strategy of the deal, uh, explain to them what you see as important, and don't, in my opinion, don't do that hard division of I'm in charge of the commercial side, you're in charge of the technical side, and that's it.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Leverage your SEs as a true partner of not only how we make sure that it's the best demo or how we do that PLC, but really to explain how to share with them how you see the strategy of the sales cycle.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think you've given one of the best metaphors and comparisons that I've heard in a very long time when it comes to how the AE and S E relationship works.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really easy.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: I can see why you can explain technical terms in a very easy way to understand.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, really love that example.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I will say exactly why you said it, but in a very different example.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not, I can't take credit for it.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: This is all Chris White.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: I had a conversation with him and he explained this very well as well.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: He said that um he has this thing called uh the 50-40 rule, and it's in his book, The Six Uh Habits of Highly Performing Sales Engineers.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And he said that 50% of the decision is always gonna be the A, but you still have that 40% of the decision making in the sense of like you can influence it, right?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you can say, here's everything that I think, and this is where I think we should go.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: But like you said, at the end of the day, somebody's gonna take the control and make that final decision.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: So um it's you know, he has kind of he has a brain in my mind or embedded in my mind, the 50-40 rule.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I really loved how you said it as well.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty awesome.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's definitely I also I know I follow Chris's work on LinkedIn for for a few years now, and the book is for my reading list for 2026, but I think it's uh it's a good summary of I mean the fact that's that there is that it's not 80-20, it's not 70 uh 30, it's 5040, uh which makes the S ENA a lot more aligned and more partners than you know, co-workers.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, love that.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I wanted to ask this, and I think this is in a way controversial when it comes to leaders and candidates overall, but typically it comes down to the hiring process.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a hiring process in your experience when it comes to obviously you know the interview process that is kind of like the the best of both worlds, right?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: You've probably heard before candidates saying, Oh my gosh, this is way too long of a hiring process.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes when it's too short, it ends up hurting the company and of course the person that's hired if they get let go too soon and all that good stuff.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is there, in your opinion, like a kind of sweet spot for the hiring process and what should that look like?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so um for me personally, I prefer it to be on the let's say on the short and focused scale than on the lengthy seven to ten stages um process that involves, you know, okay, here's this, this, this, and go have an interview with the janitor as well, so he can see that we're a clean person and um more on the on the lower side.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that you know, too short can be can be problematic for the company and and the uh candidate in the future, but I I prefer to keep it focused, you know, to make sure that we're not wasting the candidates' time, that we're not wasting our time.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And usually I try to do it, let's say up to four to five stages the most.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say that you know the initial stage, and it of course depends on the size of the company.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh larger companies have the um HR uh departments and the poorers like, but if we're focusing on more medium to small companies, basically the first interview should be with, let's say, the hiring manager, the one that the candidate will uh will uh work closely and on a daily basis and see if there isn't you know at least an initial fit there.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um now optional is let's say another second interview with um uh maybe not the higher manager, but someone from another department that will work closely with that person.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, for example, in the pre-sale world, it can be you know one of the account executives, uh maybe someone from the CSI, just to see to give another feedback and another perspective on that user.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that that for uh that person, sorry.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the third stage or second stage if we if we don't do the interview with uh with the other department, is I do understand that assignments are needed to understand the skills of the candidate, but they need to be focused, they need to be relevant, and um they shouldn't take a lot of time for the candidate to complete and to present.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I usually recommend in those cases, uh, especially if we're talking, let's say, about the the pre-sell ward, is that I would like the the candidate to give me a demo of either uh a company uh product that they know best, because then I can really understand both their technical understanding, their presentation skills, their capability of uh of uh dealing with pressure and questions.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and in some cases, and it really depends if we have the time capacity, maybe give them the assignment of demo on our product, uh while giving them the enough the enough access and enough time to prepare.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, next step should probably be pretty much the the last step, uh, which uh by the way, that demo is of course would be done to to the hiring manager in that case, possibly uh another colleague, or let's say the the VP sales or CRO, the one that uh is basically my boss.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um after that, maybe again just one more interview with the CRO, with the VP of sales to see that uh to give let's say a clean deal of health to that user, and and that's pretty much it.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that four, five stages uh is is more than enough.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's more than enough.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: I agree, I agree.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think that uh, which I you you didn't mention it, but I totally think that you guys do this in with between each stage.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one thing that I've seen work really well as well, and of course when the team is also in person, right?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: When it's not, it it you figure out how to do it a different way.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: But he's having like an interview that has like nothing to do with with the team or with the work itself, just what they call like a team bonding type interview, and that just really showcases you that person as a person versus a professional, and it actually you'd be surprised how much you can learn from somebody when you take off the pressure of the interview itself and just let them be.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've personally done this before, and it's been anywhere from people that just like like to complain.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, is this person just gonna complain on the job as well?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, while they complain personally, and there's been people that you know it's kind of like that, you finish each other's sentences and it's like great, this is a great culture fit.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that virtually you kind of do that on each stage of the interview, you know, maybe a small talk in the beginning or a small talk at the end where you start to figure out, okay, is this person a good culture fit or not?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, yeah, that's quite right.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, when when I think of of interviews and the way that I interview, I try to do it.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a little bit like I do with uh with demos or with uh with PLCs.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a lecture, it's a conversation.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I it's not that I'm the only one asking questions and getting answers.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear, you know, what the what the candidate is asking, what uh how uh how they compose themselves, what are they talking about?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And also if I can, and we have time to learn a little bit about them as as you mentioned, as a person and not only as a professional.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I love that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you for sharing all that.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love to end with this question.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, where do you see shifts happening in SaaS or pre-sales or even enablement in the next 12 to 18 months?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything that either individuals or leaders should prepare for as they step into the space or continue working in the space?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, great question.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think again, we're we we talked a little bit about uh AI at the beginning and in the middle.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're um I mean it we we it we're not over the hype yet, but we do understand that AI isn't, let's say, a magic bullet that can solve everything.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um I believe that you know the the good leaders in in SaaS and in such and presal and enablement will continue to leverage AI, but understand that like a lot of uh types of technology or tools in the past, it's a tool, it's not a silver bullet, it's not gonna completely replace uh humans and human interactions and human connections.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know we can't necessarily or we shouldn't necessarily rely on it completely, but how we need to understand how we integrate it to our day-to-day work as well as our let's say long-term projects, but still keep in mind um our employees, our customers, our colleagues, our competitors who eventually are still humans, um until AI will decide that uh you know he's gonna compete against us as well in that.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: the the the the the really excellent readers will know to do that combination uh with again continuing to use the ai as part of the process that's cool i love that yeah i think it would be definitely an interesting world if the ai becomes the buyer persona who knows we might be heading there um well thank you so much yodam this is this was awesome thank you so much for uh first of all joining being super transparent and just sharing a ton of value there's a lot of notes to take from this episode overall um for those of you guys joining live thank you for for joining us uh or if you're catching the replay uh please make sure to connect yodam is linkedin the best way to connect with you uh yeah definitely linkedin is the best way i'm by the way i usually uh i like to increase my connection always like to uh love meeting new people so feel free to send me uh send me a connection request and a dm uh you're you're probably gonna get approved if you're not a boss love that now watch out now your dms could start blowing up so we don't want that cool well thank you so much again for tuning in Yoram it was great and I'll catch you all in the next one thanks Arvi it was great meeting you and uh great being here thanks so much thank you