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Scott Strubel - Scaling Partner Revenue at Smartsheet · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries about channels and partnerships on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Effa and excited to introduce our special guest, Scott.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Scott, how are you doing?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great, Effa, and congratulations on what I understand to be over 200 episodes now of Partnerships Unraveled.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: V close to 200 episodes marked recently, and honestly, time goes past so quickly.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe it's already been 200 episodes, but it's been such a uh pleasure uh to be running this podcast and thank you for joining us.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm very glad to join you today, and I look forward to the conversation.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Scott, maybe for the uninitiated, you could give us an introduction, tell us who you are and where you come from.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, I'd be glad to.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I joined uh Afa Schoen Leitner's Global Partner Organization at Smartsheet four months ago, EFA, to lead our America's partner organization.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, prior to Smartsheet, I I've roughly divided my sales leadership time equally between leading direct sales organizations for other software companies or technology suppliers, and leading partner sales organizations for technology companies.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So prior to coming to Smartsheet, I've led uh global commercial sales for Hitachi Vantara, um, global sales for NetApp Software, I led U.S.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: sales for HP Software, and then I've led partner organizations at Commvault, at HP Software, at NetApp, and at Darktrace.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's I think it's fair to say that you're a veteran in the channel partnership space, and Smartsheet brought you for that reason with a clear mandate.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Your goal is to increase revenue through partners.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what's the first thing uh you have to change to make that possible at Smartsheet?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that uh a great leadership team on AFA's staff uh that I'm part of, we are focused on really five major changes that we're trying to affect, AIFA.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: The first is continuing to work with the great solution partners that Smartsheet has been working with that know our software very well, but also to augment that as we grow through expansion into other types of partners that are going to bring us sales extension.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to bring us more professional services capacity.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, secondly, we're going to keep a laser focus as we build this together on demand generation and deal registration.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thirdly, I've got a big mandate to make uh significant inroads into working with our hyperscaler partners in the cloud marketplaces that I suspect we'll talk a little bit about today.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, fourth, we're going to align our partner sales team even better to our direct sales organizations so that we're working much more closely together across the top 30 markets of the United States and also the primary areas we're going to be going after in both Latin America and in Canada.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like you have a lot on your plate.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I want to start off, we'll definitely get to talking about demand gen and hyperscalers, especially AWS, but I kind of want to start with distribution because last time we talked, you said that uh you declared distribution partners for North America and also planning to do for the Latin region as well.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what can you uh explain the strategy behind why distribution?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you doubling down on that strategy right now?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, I'll be glad to, Effa.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm committed to achieving Smartsheets market ambitions with great distribution and aggregation partners like those that we've already got signed up in North America today, that includes Climb Channel Solutions and Kerasoft.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: They help us better go to market.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: They help us better support our reseller partners.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I've found uh EFA in prior roles the same thing repeatedly, and that is that the benefits of teaming deeply and significantly with distribution or aggregation partners include, I don't know, about five things: demand generation to bring more top of uh funnel opportunities to our partners.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, the selective recruitment of new partners into our program.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've used them thirdly, significantly for partner onboarding and enablement.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, fourthly, I believe they know more about local country taxation and import-export complexities when dealing outside the United States than oftentimes uh the companies I've worked for have been ready to deal with.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and fifth and finally, Effa, I find that when you're dealing within the United States and United States federal and state and local governments, the contractual buying vehicles like GSA, NASPO, Omnia, Texas DIR, TIPS, Vibor, Vista, there's a whole bunch of them, and these distribution partners know them well, carry a number of them, and and uh it makes for a good teaming relationship.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you talked about uh how distribution can help you with that localized support.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like also, especially outside of the United States, I think it's going to be quite helpful in the Latham region.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but also, you know, the things that their experts said are you know partner recruitment, at scale, demand generation, type of funnel lead enablement.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, really excited to hear more about how that uh strategy is going to help you going forward.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you also mentioned the other part of the coin is uh marketplaces, hyperscalers, uh, especially AWS.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to me about your strategy behind uh you know investing in that relationship?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, I'm glad to.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're going to go after cloud marketplaces quite aggressively, and we will have multiple marketplace partners over time.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: But my current focus is in scaling an already great relationship with Amazon Web Services or AWS.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we'll have a lot more to share with our partners after we work together in the upcoming uh AWS reInvent, their annual global conference hosted by AWS for the cloud computing community.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let me share, though, why I'm so committed to accelerating our growth with AWS.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's because first, our customers want me to, and secondly, our sales organization wants me to.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And let me expand on that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Customers utilize the AWS marketplace to simplify their procurement, to optimize their cost management, and to better to get better control and governance.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Our sales teams want this partnership because it allows them an opportunity to access budgets set aside in the marketplaces that we won't get to if we don't have this teaming relationship.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, you know, I've found over time that we will benefit from going aggressively after two types of private offer agreements with AWS, the SPPO or Solution Partner Private Offer Agreement, and then the CPPO, the Channel Partner Private Offer Agreement.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: We will work through both of these agreements over time.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the latter means that we will also be including our reseller partners for the great work they can do in providing implementation and integration and uh consolidating together the multiple expenditures that their and our customers have with AWS.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's amazing how much AW has AWS marketplace has grown over the last few years.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what you said about I always say it's you know procurement on steroids for customers.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned that's how the customers want to buy, right?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like at this day and age, uh for a lot of ISVs, you kind of have to be there.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned, you know, your sales team wants to work with you because it's also such an easy way to tap into those budgets.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um by the way, if I if I may, you said something really insightful there.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Vendors like Smartsheet have to be there, but in my experience, the vendors that really succeed in accelerating their revenues with and through cloud marketplaces like AWS are the ones that approach it because they want to be there, not just because they have to be there.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we are gonna go after this like it's a place we really want to be.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wanna, I'm glad you said that.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to explore that a little bit deeper.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe because we have a lot of ISVs listening to us, a lot of ISVs at this stage, maybe they are thinking about building that call-cell motion with AWS or there maybe at the early stages.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what's your success plan?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to make sure that that partnership is going to be successful?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe what are the internal changes that you're making to make sure that it's going to be a fruitful partnership?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: There are changes that include both technology and the training and education of people, and I'll touch on them in that order.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: There will be system changes that we will make that will allow us to effectively and properly do both SPPO and CPPO types of uh arrangement deals with AWS.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we will also be making sure that we put a lot of energy into the training and education of our sales organization and the awareness and enablement of our reseller partners that we will be teaming with that who are also often aligned with AWS.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So there's, you know, to take the friction out of the system, you have to make sure everybody knows where you're going and what success looks like.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: We will define success internally as a certain percentage of our indirect transactions occurring on a cloud marketplace like AWS.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Then once we've defined what success looks like, we're going to teach our entire organization and our partners how to properly and quickly work together so that working through the marketplaces doesn't slow down opportunities.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: It actually speeds them up and it brings both the access to budget and the time to value for our customers to be shorter and quicker than it was before.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you touched upon kind of two key things.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing is making sure that your salespeople are enabled and trained and everywhere, and there are no hiccups on the way with working with AWS.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the other part is uh the technology and building, creating a clear objective and metrics to define success, and then that is kind of uh the keystones of your coherent strategy with AWS.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, apart from you know talking about distribution uh AWS marketplaces, one of your also biggest focuses right now is embedding AI to drive faster time to value for customers.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to me about like how AI is embedded into your Smartsheet solution right now?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, I can.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let me begin by taking one small step back to put our efforts with AI into the context of the mission that Smartsheet has.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Our mission is to provide our customers with the intelligent work management platform.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we're developing a work management platform, and AI plays a big role in that intelligence.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is intelligent work management?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's an evolution of the smart sheet platform we've had that unites people and data with the power of AI.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we think of intelligent work management in the following kind of definitive areas.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's four of them, Effa.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: One is a digital workforce that works with you.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, a single enterprise grade platform that can work for many projects being housed across many business units and divisions of very large enterprise companies.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Number three, creating a world-class user experience on our interface.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: It feels natural, it feels easy to use to the people that use our software.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And fourth and finally, intelligent work management effort, when done right, is a way of empowering our customers to focus on the highest value work that they're trying to accomplish.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: So what we're doing with AI is amplifying human potential, not replacing it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, as we go a little further here, if you want me to, I'm glad to share updates, Effa, in two different areas.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: One would be what we're already doing right now, today, utilizing AI within our platform.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other is to share with you and your viewers and listeners some things that we're bringing to market that we've just committed to our customers in our recently held Engage event, which is our annual conference for both customers and partners.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would love to talk about both of them.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also I want to talk about uh a lot of partners, they see the value in AI.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of customers come to them asking about AI, uh, but it can get a little bit too overcomplicated for no reason.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the messaging has to be really clear, slick, and has to be tied to the problems and challenges that the customers are facing.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I would love for you to talk about the things that you mentioned, but also on top of that, also how are you enabling partners to uh have those conversations with the customers without getting lost in the buzzwords?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, that's uh that's an important or insightful comment because, like you, I'm sure I read a lot about what other software vendors and technology companies are doing to embed AI into their solutions.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of, at the risk of a generalization, I see two different things.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: One is a list of marketing buzzwords that makes it look like every technology OEM is checking every box they think they need to check to say they're doing everything.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the other is, and I'm gonna make the argument that this is where Smartsheet is at right now, today, it's when you are effectively utilizing artificial intelligence in your offerings and sharing, you know, easy to understand ways that you're going to continue expanding on that.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: So let me share a little bit on each of those.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about the AI features that are available in Smartsheet today, and then we'll talk a little bit about some things coming around the corner.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think today we're doing four things really well with and for our customers, and we're doing this through the partners that are so deeply committed to Smartsheet.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Our partners are bringing these four things, EFA, to market today.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: The first is we are now utilizing natural language to generate formulas.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of writing formulas manually and making sure that you have the proper and correct syntax, now our customers can speak in plain English.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for example, telling Smartsheet, I want you to sum up a budget for the marketing department for me.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And Smartsheet's AI converts that into a working formula with proper syntax.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, we're using AI for data analysis and visualization.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So in an enterprise class software platform like Smartsheet, our customers can now say how many projects went over budget across the following business units or divisions in the following period of time, like let's say last year or last quarter.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can surface insights without having to manually build formulas and charts.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: The AI-powered software is doing that for our customers today.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thirdly, text generation and summarization.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of tasks that need summarized in a long project note or in the comments that go into a very detailed project, like let's say the construction of a high-rise building.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so we can now help generate stakeholder communication across different types of users to make sure they're talking about what's most important.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, Effa, and this is all in being done today by Smartsheet with and through our partners, we're using suggested descriptions for assets.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, in the brand folder digital asset management solution that Smartsheet has, you can store digital assets like images and documents, and then AI can create descriptions and tag them and use the right metadata for searchability and consistency.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Those four things are all happening right now, today, from Smartsheet with and through our partners.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like you have really clear use cases that, you know, paints a clear picture in my mind.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of also, you know, go back to the question: how are you helping the partners have these conversations?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, you have a lot of partners, you're thinking about onboarding distributors.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's going to be a lot of partners that come along with that as well.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how are you making sure that your partners can have those conversations with customers clearly and, you know, um explain the value proposition of Smartsheet and how they can solve their business problems?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um in our industry-leading aligned partner program, we have a fantastic partner portal.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And at our engage event that I referenced, we recently had for customers and partners, we were showing partners the significant enhancements and advancements we've made to our partner portal to make sure that any sales or technical professional employed by one of our partners has the same breadth and depth of information available to them that we make available to our own sales and technical organizations.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we work on the information that we want our partners to be able to communicate in two different ways.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And this is really key, Effa, because you know this quite well.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: But anybody who goes to market through external channels has added a layer or more than one layer of abstraction.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Between what a vendor knows they want to say to the marketplace and how that message eventually gets to the marketplace.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So to make sure the message is clear and accurate, we work on first the right sales and technical certifications to make sure that people say that when they say that they are certified to speak about the solutions that Smartsheet brings to market through them, that they know what they're talking about.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then we work on it after certifications are completed by putting more information out there through our great partner portal that's empowered by ImPartner.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I can imagine as you're rolling out new updates and making Smartsheet a better product, you know, better AI models.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's also your responsibility to make sure that the market's updated, you know, as the as your solution gets improved over time.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you also mentioned previously that you're one of your priorities right now is to reduce the time it takes to get your message to message to market through your partners.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now you you talked about your partner portal.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know what, what what other you know content tooling automation uh are you using to shrink that window to get the message uh to market through your partners?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: The main thing that we're doing right now is bringing the same messaging to market in multiple and different ways from the way that our local partner account managers, partner business managers, channel development managers, and technical partner managers, four different types of roles that we have, the way that they go out there and communicate to their own partners, the way that we reinforce that message with what we leave behind by saying, here's where you go and click here and go there to look for more information.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you get in front of a customer and you get stuck, here's where you go for more help.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we're giving them multiple ways to come at the same information.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And this becomes really important for this reason, Effa.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: As we move into the future with a lot of incremental AI-powered solutions for our customers, there are going to be waves of new capabilities that we are bringing to market.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: We just announced six new AI-based capabilities to our customers.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I won't go too deeply into all of them, but let me just share with you why communication becomes so important.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to be releasing Smart Assist, a digital gateway to a powerful world of AI agents through our partners to our customers.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, smart agents that will work alongside our customers as digital coworkers, unlocking more capacity.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Number three will be smart flows to create complex, intelligent, automated workflows.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Number four, smart columns to allow data columns to instantly translate text and data and generate summaries for our customers without them doing it manually themselves.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Number five, a knowledge graph to help AI understand the entirety of the rows and columns of a complex project that is being managed through Smartsheet.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, bringing it all together with something that we're calling Smart Hub, which is the AI control panel for Smartsheet AI.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: All six of these things are coming now or soon to the marketplace.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we are going to be responsible, we being myself and my team and a lot of people that will help and support us, like our distribution partners, we've got to get a lot of messaging out to our partners in a short amount of time to make sure that the way that this gets communicated to over 100,000 different current customers and many more prospective customers, that it looks and feels and sounds consistently the same.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you sold it very well, Scott.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for also outlining everything that's coming up.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: If I was a partner, honestly, I would sign up to the Smartsheet Partner Program right now.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe to all the partners who are listening to us.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: A quick pitch, what why should they uh look into Smartsheet?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why should they sign up to your partner program?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: We are selectively recruiting partners in a couple of different ways, as any good software company does, Effa.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: We are looking for partners that complete our ability to go to market in certain geographies.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a particular province or set of provinces in Canada, it could be a set of the 33 countries of Latin America that these partners are really good in.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're going to make sure within the United States that we have an equally compelling ability across the top 30 markets in the United States to go to market.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll be selectively recruiting.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And here's why we believe, and we even know partners are going to be interested in talking to us.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um Smartsheet is already in over 100,000 customers around the world.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're in 85% of the Fortune 500, but we have so much growth opportunity.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Once we're into an account, we have an opportunity to expand across the business units and divisions of that account, and we have an opportunity to expand what our customers are doing with our software by selling additional or incremental premium applications.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I believe for our current and our future partners, there are these two compelling opportunities.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: One is the gross margin dollars that they will generate by helping us sell our software into their marketplaces, whether it's a vertical industry, a geography, a country, or whatever.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the second is professional services.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: For our software to be utilized at maximum capacity, it needs to be properly implemented and properly integrated across a number of other applications that our customers are using, where they want to go grab information and pull it into Smartsheet or take information from Smartsheet and push it out to other applications that they're using.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Those professional services help our partners because that's a good gross profit margin business for our partners.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: But even more importantly, it helps our customers, which ultimately means it helps Smartsheet.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And why is that?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because great professional services lead to great adoption of any enterprise software, and great adoption of your enterprise software leads to great customer retention.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're playing for, Effa.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Very well said, Scott.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, you sold it amazingly.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like, you know, you're good.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely some partners are going to be reaching out to you after this.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Scott, thank you so much for joining us.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have one last question before I let you go, which is we always end the episode by asking our guests to recommend, nominate a future guest on the podcast.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you think we should have next?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ah boy, I know some good ones for you, but I'm gonna give you one today that you absolutely ought to have on your podcast.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Dave Pulowski, and Dave is the vice president of global channels at Halcyon, a ransomware service provider.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Dave would be a great person for you to have on your podcast, and I bet he'd like to join you.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Dave, if you're listening to uh this conversation, I'll be reaching out to you soon.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hope we can get you on the podcast.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Scott, once again, thank you so much for joining us and see you in the next episode.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Epha.