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280: Procrastinators Get Stuff Done: Dana K. White’s Five-Step, No-Shame Fix · JOY LOVING HOME - SAHM, Productivity, Home Organization, Declutter, ADHD Mom, ADHD SAHM, ADHD Brain

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Welcome, or welcome back to the Joy Loving Home podcast. I am so excited to
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have you here for today's episode because you are going to enjoy an interview
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I got to do with Dana K. White about her new book coming out.
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I enjoyed speaking with her. I really feel like this book in particular is super
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helpful for the fish brains that we have.
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If you're a regular listener to the podcast, I'm sure you have heard of her
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because I speak about her a lot.
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But this particular new book about procrastination leans so well into,
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what I comment about with our fish brains and just needing to figure out a way
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to work with the brains we have,
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and not necessarily follow all of the standard advice that has been given in the past.
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But on the off chance that you are not familiar with her,
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I would love to just sort of read the back jacket for you so that you know exactly
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what you're getting into. And then we'll jump right into the interview.
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Finally, a procrastination book that relieves pressure instead of adding to it.
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For years, Dana K. White, best-selling author, podcaster, renowned decluttering
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expert, and author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller, Decluttering at the Speed of Life,
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which has sold more than 500,000 copies, has helped millions of people face
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the piles, projects, and everyday overwhelm they have been avoiding with practical
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strategies that work in real life.
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Now, in her highly anticipated new book, Procrastinators Get Stuff Done,
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How to Go from Overwhelmed to Finished, White brings that same trusted,
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no-shame approach to procrastination.
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Whether it's a cluttered desk, an unfinished task, a stalled goal,
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or a hard conversation, White understands the emotional weight of procrastination.
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After years of helping people make real progress in their homes and lives,
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she knows procrastination is rarely about laziness.
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More often, it is rooted in overthinking, idealism, shame, decision fatigue,
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overwhelm, fear of doing it wrong, or simply not knowing where to start.
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Through introducing her five-step anti-procrastination.
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Process, White helps readers make progress through small, doable actions that
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conserve emotional energy, reduce overwhelm, and build steady momentum without
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pressure or perfectionism.
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Known for her wildly relatable voice and practical no-nonsense wisdom,
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White gives procrastinators a path forward that fits the way they actually think, feel, and function.
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Her message is clear. Procrastinators can get stuff done.
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They simply need a doable process that
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helps them move from overwhelmed to finished, one small step at a time.
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So tune in, enjoy, and if it is something you think you may be interested in
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purchasing, I highly encourage you to consider that pre-order.
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It comes with some great bonuses and it definitely helps a very hardworking
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author dream about some big goals. So in that note, let's jump right in.
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Welcome, Data. I'm so excited to have you today. And I am so excited to talk
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about this newest book, Procrastinators Get Stuff Done.
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I had the benefit of pre-ordering, which means I got a little sneak peek at
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the first few chapters, and I am hooked. I cannot wait till it actually arrives in full.
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But sort of start with, like, why this book? Why now? What's going on with this one? Yeah, it...
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So we've talked before. We've met before. Yes. And so you know that my background is decluttering.
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I mean, not my life background. That was kind of an accidental thing for me
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to teach decluttering to the world.
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But that's what I've been doing for 17 years. I've been teaching.
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In the beginning, I was just figuring it out. And then I started teaching people
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how to declutter, specifically for the people whose brains work differently.
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And some of the stuff that sounds like it should work never worked for us.
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And so then I'm here to, like, get into the nitty gritty.
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And I found myself, because all the things I teach are things that I've applied
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for myself, I found myself as I used my decluttering process,
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I was applying the same concepts to other areas of my life, like non-clutter situations.
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And it was changing how I thought. It was stopping me from procrastinating.
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I started hearing from other people who said, the physical act of decluttering
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using your method has changed how I thought I think about so many other things. And I was like.
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I think I've actually been teaching people how to not procrastinate.
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You know, like that's because procrastination and clutter so related,
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right? Like they're just related.
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And so it hit me that that should be the next book was like an actual something
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that could be applied to not just clutter, but like any situation that overwhelms you.
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Because that's what I teach people. How do you face something that feels so
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overwhelming and daunting and impossible and get started?
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I love that. I just, I do find it interesting because I am an accidental professional
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organizer because I was just trying to fix me and ended up so far down a certification
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pathway, I just sort of decided to finish.
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I love helping other people because
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it's a lot easier helping other people than it is helping yourself.
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But I do think there is so much related between decluttering and procrastination
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because a lot of people think you're procrastinating on decluttering,
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but you're sort of describing it as,
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I don't know if I would say two separate things and maybe you are,
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but how do you see, like decluttering is just not procrastination,
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but procrastination is just not a result of clutter.
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Right. It's a fear of making decisions.
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You look at an overwhelming situation, whether that be something you desperately
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want to do, like you want to start a business, or something that you have to do.
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I have to get these forms filled out for, I was just talking to somebody yesterday,
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and college applications with her son, figuring this stuff out.
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It's so overwhelming. It's new to me? I don't know.
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I can do all this research, but I never can actually end up getting started.
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Looking at that thing, and it feels like it's going to be so many decisions to make.
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And because it's unknown, like, I don't know what it's going to be like when
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I get into it. Like, I think I know, but I, you know, and so I'm dreading making all those decisions.
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And I just don't have the emotional energy to make all these hard decisions
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I think I'm going to have to make.
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And so that's why I've taken what I did with decluttering, which,
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you know, when I wrote decluttering at the speed of life, I created a five-step
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process. taking all the things I was doing to declutter and putting it into
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a step-by-step process.
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I did that for the book. And then I went, oh, having a process is incredibly powerful.
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Like knowing what to do next. Like, I don't know what I'm going to face,
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but if I have a process, it's going to help me identify the next thing to do and the next thing to do.
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And so, and I saw that so much of the value of that process is the first three
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steps are decision-free, meaning I'm going to go ahead and get started and make
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progress before I have to make any decisions, before I have to use any emotional energy.
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So I took that, what I learned was so powerful, and I put it into my.
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An anti-procrastination process that can be applied to anything,
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not just stuff. You know, we're not in my decluttering process, we look for trash.
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In my anti-procrastination process, we take the power of that looking for trash
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and we apply it to anything. We say, we're going to look without the commitment
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to do anything about what I'm seeing.
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Like, I am going to count this as legitimate progress to open the email,
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to read through the application for the college that we're most excited about.
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I, you know, whatever it is, I'm just going to look and I'm going to count that
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as success because there's something about making immediate success and looking
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at the overwhelming problem from a perspective of success,
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that really starts to change things.
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I love that. I love that. I'm curious because the two words that sort of my
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community gets hung up on is consistency.
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And I know you address this a little in the book, and this sort of endless desire
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to find the right system, and I'm using air quotes in the word right system.
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Do you see process and system differently? Do you want to comment on consistency? I'm good with either.
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Let's talk about consistency first, because I specifically talk in the book
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about the myth of consistency, okay? And consistency, obviously,
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of course that's the goal. Like, of course it is.
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But it cannot be your goal when you are procrastinating.
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Okay. When you are facing an overwhelming situation, maybe I want to get in
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shape, I want to start cooking at home, I want to whatever.
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And it is the most normal thing in the world to think that your goal is to be consistent.
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Yes. But it is not possible to be consistent right now.
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Right. It is not possible for me to be consistent today.
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Oh, I like that. Yeah. Consistency is in the future. And so I get overwhelmed
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by the goal of consistency because I haven't even done the thing yet.
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And so I am blowing the thing up to even bigger because it's like,
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well, it's not going to count if I'm not consistent.
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But I've never been consistent before.
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So what makes me think I would be able to do that? And then I start blowing
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the thing bigger in my head and making this big, huge, elaborate plan.
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So instead I said, let's don't talk about consistency.
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Let's talk about right now. What is the thing I can do right now?
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Like, let's say, and I know, and I talk about it in the book,
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and I know there's people who are like, well, you know, the 10,000 steps thing
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is something somebody pulled. That's not what we're talking about.
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I'm not saying 10,000 steps. I'm just saying like, that's a very common goal
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that people have, right?
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Like I want to consistently take 10,000 steps a day. A lot of people say that.
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But if I'm thinking of, I need to make this consistent, I start looking at my
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calendar and I go, okay, so on Mondays, I can do this.
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Oh, on Tuesdays, I can, okay, Tuesdays, I can actually really do,
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oh, it's Wednesday. I should have done that yesterday.
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Oh, okay. And then we start thinking about, okay, so I don't know that I'm ever
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going to be able to take 10,000 steps on a Thursday because of the way that that day is.
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So does that mean I have to take 15,000 steps on Wednesday and 15,000 on Friday?
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What happens when I go to Disney World and I take 30,000 steps?
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Does that mean I don't have to walk for the next three days?
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I mean, like, these are the things that go in our brain that, like, spin out, right?
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Like, my specialty with decluttering is a process that helps you from spinning
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out. So it's the same thing. Like, these are the things that go through our
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mind, and we still haven't taken a single step.
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So the only thing I can do right now is to get up and walk, right?
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Like the only thing I can do is to start walking right now.
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And then tomorrow, the only thing I can do is get up and walk.
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And the next day, the only thing I can, and then I will achieve the consistency.
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But the goal of consistency itself is not a good goal because I haven't done anything yet.
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I love that. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's a really great way to frame it out because
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we will defeat ourselves from starting when we get too far down the road of
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where we see we're going to fail.
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Well, and procrastinators and people who struggle with clutter,
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we are overthinkers. We just are. Like, we...
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And we tend to be very intelligent and delightful. Like, we're so much fun.
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And we, I mean, like, we, it's not that we haven't thought this through.
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Oh, 100%. Yes. Right. And I think that somebody looking on going,
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why haven't you done this thing yet?
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Have you not thought about how much easier it would be in your life if you would
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do this? Oh, we've thought about it.
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Don't even worry. We have thought about it. We've thought about it so hard that
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we've ended up overwhelmed and can't move forward.
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And so that taking action, the teeniest, tiniest bit of action has so much more
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value than so much thinking.
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I love that. I love that. So two thoughts are swirling in my head.
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One is, is do you go over the five steps? Are we saving that for the book?
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Or do you want to say like, what's the first, the best first step?
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Sure. I mean, people who know me know that I just go ahead and say everything.
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I mean, I think because this is not my first book. This is my sixth book.
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I know that I don't want somebody to not have what they need,
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but I also know that you're going to get a lot more from the book.
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You're going to really be able to wrap your head around it from the book. So I'm happy to share.
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So the first three steps are decision-free.
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The first step is to look and count looking as a legitimate step because avoidance,
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oh boy, we procrastinators are amazing at avoidance, right?
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Yes. I mean, we would rather create a Trello board with 15,000 steps on it than
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actually look at the thing that we're dealing with, right?
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Yes. So look is the key and count that as success.
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Step two, and look may mean I, you know, I'm looking at my situation. It's not research.
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Okay. It's I'm looking at my, you know, like what shoes do I have to go walk?
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Okay. I mean, you know, like what's the weather like right now?
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I'm in Texas as we're talking.
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I can't walk at three o'clock in the afternoon right now. Right.
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Like it's a, I need to walk after sunset or, you know, before,
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you know, before it gets too hot.
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So like this reality of I'm going to look at my actual situation,
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look at what I'm dealing with. I'm going to open that email that I've been dreading
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opening and I'm just going to read through it.
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Step two is to do the easy stuff. That's the same as the step two in my decluttering process.
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Step two is what do I already know needs to be done and I already know how to do it.
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So it's decision-free stuff. I'm identifying what in this thing that overwhelms me.
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If I'm going to walk 10,000 steps every day, I know I have to get up and walk.
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So I'm going to get up and walk.
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I'm going to do the easy thing. I'm not accomplishing the big goal.
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I'm literally just doing the easy thing. So many times the easy stuff ends up
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getting all the way through this thing that I've been procrastinating on it.
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I've still got three more steps for when it doesn't, But like those easy things,
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like I ask myself again and again and again,
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what is the smallest thing I can do right now that I already know would have
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to be done if this bigger project was ever to actually be finished?
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What's the smallest thing I already know to do?
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So I do that for as long as I can. And then step three is noncommittal experimentation.
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And this is the step that the feedback I've had from people that I've shared
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the process with are like, this changes everything.
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Because we're overthinkers, we're overplanners. We are generally highly intelligent
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people who do really well on some things. And then there are other things that
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we are completely stuck on.
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And so we're trying to apply, oh, but I'm smart and I can figure things out.
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And we're trying to apply that on this thing that overwhelms us.
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And we're just like, I got to figure it out before I do it. I'm sure you hear
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this from your community as well, but I hear from so many people like,
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okay, so I've made this big plan of how I'm going to get my house all the way decluttered.
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And I need your opinion on this thing that I'm going to do on day 47,
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but they haven't even started day one yet. Right.
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Right. Like, have you had those types of... Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like,
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it is very... This was me. That was my thing before, too.
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My house never got any better. What got better was when I started doing stuff.
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I started doing the easy stuff, you know?
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And so as this noncommittal experimentation is the freedom to say,
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I don't have to know exactly what I'm doing. to do it.
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I don't have to say I'm ever going to do it this way again. I am not committing
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to this being the right way.
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I am literally experimenting for the purpose of learning.
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I love that. I absolutely love that because my head is wrapping around a lot
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of times I will talk to them about if you do something for a while and then,
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for whatever reason you just get sick of it or it quits working or your brain
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gets bored and you just need to come up with something else.
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That wasn't you failing again. That was you spending some time,
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got some data out of it. Now it's time to start again. Something itches your
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brain and you decide to go towards the interesting thing again.
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And that non-committal part is the thing that makes us willing to do it.
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Yes. Saying that like, I don't have to figure it out ahead of time.
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Yeah. I don't have to know this is going to work to be able to, to be willing to try it.
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Approaching it as data versus a tried and failed system.
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Yeah. And so many times that mentality, it's done.
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The item is, the thing is done because I experiment and I go,
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oh, that worked or, oh, that didn't work, but I have new information to do better
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on the next thing that I experiment with.
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So, so that is, that's the key. And those three steps are all decision-free,
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right? Like, I mean, like you're, you're making a decision to experiment,
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but you have not made this final like, okay, you know, this is the right answer.
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No, I'm literally looking.
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I am doing the stuff I already know to do. I didn't have to decide it.
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I just go, oh, yeah, that needs to be, oh, yeah, that needs,
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oh, well, obviously that needs to be done, right?
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And then I am noncommittally experimenting. And then step four is to make your plan. Okay.
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And that's hard for those of us who are overthinkers and procrastinators.
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Yes, I will definitely look forward to reading that chapter because I want to
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dig into your thoughts on plans.
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Yeah, because plans feel like work, right? Yes.
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But if I'm making the plan before I've actually looked head on at this thing
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that I'm facing, I'm making a plan that's not based in reality. Right.
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If I'm making a plan and I have not done the easy stuff that I already know
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has to be done, I'm making a
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plan for a much bigger challenge than I actually need to make a plan for.
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Some things don't deserve to be on the plan. They just need to go ahead and
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get done because I already know to do them.
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Okay. I like the approach of that because I'm sitting here thinking how many
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times we've been drilled into our heads to have the plan laid out so that we
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don't misstep or do things out of order or get inefficient.
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I think that that efficiency word is sort of trips a lot of people up. Oh, yeah.
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And if I'm making a plan before I've experimented, I don't know.
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I'm not actually in it yet. Like, I'm making a plan based on what I think is
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going to work. I mean, this was my story with my house. I mean,
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for years, I was making a plan of how I was going to change,
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how I was going to do everything different, how I was going to this, and it never worked.
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The only thing that worked was when I got in there and basically did all these
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things that now I've put words to,
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Yeah. Yeah. So that's the plan. And the goal of the plan at this point,
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because I know what I'm dealing with, I am in it.
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And at this point, my goal is to make my plan be a list of the smallest completable steps.
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So that means instead of, okay, I need to, you know, I need to fill out the application.
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Okay, first thing I need, I'm going to go the smallest completable step.
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I need to turn on my computer.
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I need to, you know, search the website and find the thing. I need to download it.
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I mean, like, so really breaking it down into the smallest completable steps,
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which means that I can work, continue working on it. Right.
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And step away because life happens. Right. And so many times we think that the
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only way to accomplish the big thing is to have life not happen.
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And that's not reality. Yes. Yes.
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So smallest completable steps means that I, you know, am going to get distracted,
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but I can come right back and pick up where I left off.
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And that's really not doing things halfway. You know, like in my decluttering
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process, I, you know, I preach and teach, do not make piles,
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do not stick stuff in a keep box, because that's something partially done.
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Right. It is better to go ahead and take it to its home so that you don't end
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up with a bunch of partially things
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because that's what causes us to feel overwhelmed and get stuck again.
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So we go with small, completable steps. And then the fifth step is to finish.
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And depending on what it is, you know, like let's say college applications, you know,
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you may have thought ahead of time, I'm going to apply to 50 different places
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and I'm going to have all these different, you know, I'm going to have the top,
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choices and then I'm going to have these and I'm going to have safety schools and I do all this.
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And then you get through three or four and you're like, you know what, I think I'm done.
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Maybe the safety school did an automatic reply of you're in and you're like,
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you know what, that means I got a place to go.
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And so I'm going to apply to these three top things. But otherwise,
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this sounds great. Yeah, I mean, like.
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The finish is like that idea of I don't know until I'm into it and I have already
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been working through things.
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That's when I really understand and can identify or establish the finish line.
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It's so many times we try to think of that finish line before you see my dog. Sorry.
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It's so funny because my dog's in here, too. So for a second,
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I couldn't tell his window.
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Yeah. Do you have a German Shepherd? No. No, she's black and fluffy and it was
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just enough of a silhouette. I was like, is that mom? Yeah, yeah.
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That's funny. Does that make sense though? No, it totally makes sense.
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It absolutely makes sense. And not to shift gears because I love the thought process through that.
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But one of the things that stood out to me when I was reading before the interview
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is you have a comment on there's something between habits and pre-decision.
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Maybe I'm saying that wrong.
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So where are you with that?
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Yeah. So I used to think that, I mean, because it's very normal to like say
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the words and sometimes the words still come out of my mouth because it's just the most normal.
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I need to have the habit of doing the dishes every day. I need to have the habit
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of, you know, picking up every day or whatever.
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And kind of like the goal of consistency. Yes. You know, like how am I going
24:10
to do this every day as opposed to I'm going to do this right now.
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And then that's going to give me a lot of information that I need as I eventually
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figure out how to do it every day, right?
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So this habit thing, the problem with that word is that I have a lot of bad habits.
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And those are habits that I am like, oh, did I just do that again?
24:31
Oh my goodness, how did I do it?
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And so in my mind, habit, if I was going to establish something as a habit,
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it meant that it was not going to feel like work anymore. It was just going
24:40
to happen. Okay. Right? Right.
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And that's not a good mindset for me because I am 17 years in and I still have
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to go, I have to do my dishes because that's the thing that I have to do,
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right? Like I'm never like, oh my word, did I do my dishes?
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Oh my goodness, the kitchen looks great. I don't remember doing that.
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That does not happen for me, right?
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And so that thinking that that's what I'm going toward and then never getting
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to that point is incredibly discouraging, right?
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So instead, pre-made decisions work really well for me.
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Okay. Because basically, I do the experimenting.
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I try.
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I'm experimenting with when can I walk? Can I walk some during my lunch hour?
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Oh, if I walk from this place to this place instead of jumping in my car like
25:34
I used to, I add like a thousand steps doing that.
25:36
It just, you know, these little things I'm experimenting with,
25:42
and I'm gathering that data like you were talking about before,
25:46
you know, I'm getting this and then I realize if I will do this, this is the result.
25:53
So I am making this decision. I'm pre-making this decision to say,
25:58
I don't jump in my car to drive.
26:02
I'm just thinking like if you're a teacher, right? You know,
26:04
like to drive, you know, there's, I know my kid's school was like,
26:09
here was this class and then here was this class over here. I can totally see
26:13
a teacher who had to go to the office driving there because it was a really long walk.
26:17
But because I've gathered this information, I say, I don't do that.
26:21
I walk when I have to go to the office every morning for such and such reason.
26:25
I walk. That's why I do that.
26:28
And it's a pre-made decision. And the thing, too, is I tend to be a little,
26:33
I don't like to be told what to do.
26:35
You know, like, I don't like somebody to be like, this is what you need to do
26:39
and do this, this, and this, and then you'll achieve these results.
26:42
And I'm like, okay, but maybe I'm different, you know, or whatever.
26:45
Like, there's all these different, I just, that doesn't work well for me.
26:48
A pre-made decision is a decision I have made based on what I have observed,
26:53
both of doing it well and also what I've observed from not doing it.
26:58
Like when I do jump in the car instead of walking to the office,
27:03
I have a thousand fewer steps that day.
27:05
Dang it. You know, like. Yeah. But it's this thing where I'm like,
27:11
I have made this decision, and that may mean that every single day when I'm
27:17
like, I got to go to the office.
27:20
I may in my head go, I do not want to walk.
27:24
I mean, and that's okay. Yeah. And I can say, because I used to think that saying
27:29
I don't want to walk meant, oh, well, then I haven't achieved the habit I've failed.
27:32
Right? But instead, I'm like, I don't want to walk. And I'm like,
27:35
I've made this decision.
27:37
I don't have to have the inner turmoil. I don't have to have the conversation inside my head.
27:44
I get to skip that and go, yeah, I don't want to walk, but it's what I do.
27:48
Oh, I like that. Yeah. Yeah.
27:50
Taking out the, I mean, the word I keep hearing us taking out,
27:55
and maybe this is just is because in my community, there's so much failed attempts,
28:02
you know, and it's like, you're not failing if you still begrudgingly do it.
28:06
Just begrudgingly do it.
28:09
I love that you said that because that is so true. It's like,
28:13
and that's that idea of habits, right? It's like, it still feels hard.
28:17
So this can't be a habit because it still feels hard because it's really easy,
28:21
to do the bad habits. Like those don't feel hard.
28:23
But if it still feels hard, am I failing? No, there are some things,
28:27
but I have experimented. I have the data. I know...
28:32
Which way I have to go. Well, it's interesting, too. This podcast will air right
28:38
on the end of I did a four part series on why are we stuck.
28:42
And I love it. This is coming next. But one of the things that I was talking
28:47
about is we have like low capacity days sometimes and you need to match the
28:52
activity that you're willing to do on that day with the capacity that you have.
28:56
So if you know you're in a low capacity day, mindless things like,
29:01
I don't have to think about making my bed, but I know that if I just go through
29:05
the process, I'm going to feel a little bit better that the bed was made and
29:09
it took nothing else out of me because I can't actually think right now.
29:14
That's a non-thing. So it's kind of like sounding like that same sort of like
29:19
if the decision was already made, like I know that that's an easier thing in
29:24
my life when I walk by later and see to been made.
29:26
It's just going to feel better for whatever reason, but I don't have to have
29:30
separate energy to take care of that pre-made decision. Yeah.
29:35
So what would you say, since this is definitely on the heels of the end of this
29:40
series, like what is the number one question you would recommend like thinking
29:45
about when you're finding yourself stuck?
29:47
Like you're, you know, you're in a procrastination swirl or whatever.
29:52
What is the smallest thing I can do right now completely that would have to
29:58
be done anyway if I was ever to actually get this big overwhelming thing done,
30:02
so what and when I say smallest I mean smallest.
30:06
I mean, like an example real quick. So like I am hopefully I just became an empty nester last year.
30:15
OK, yeah. And I am like my goal is to get downsized, but my husband is not on board.
30:22
So it's like in the meantime, if I downsize in place, then when the time comes
30:28
that I can get him on board, I would be actually ready to take action.
30:32
So because it's this weird sort of swirly deadline that doesn't truly exist,
30:38
this effort to make myself go, okay, what could I be doing today?
30:43
Because to me, downsizing is this huge thing. So like, yeah,
30:47
do you have, and I know I'm throwing you at this in like real time,
30:51
but thoughts of like, what's one thing I could be doing that's going to have
30:54
to be done anyway? That's small.
30:56
Can we talk about the one thing and then can we talk about using the process
30:59
on that as well? Yeah, absolutely.
31:01
Okay, so the one thing you could do, and when I say small, I mean small.
31:05
Like, what is something that I absolutely know I would not take with me when
31:12
I downsize? And I'm going to get rid of that thing.
31:15
Okay. I'm going to, you know, like, I'm going to throw something in the trash
31:20
that I know I would throw in the trash when we're going to downsize.
31:24
Right, because then you're already doing that thing. That's what I mean by so small.
31:28
Is there a huge amount of stuff to do? And absolutely there is,
31:32
right? Like there's so much to do.
31:35
But that's a big goal that's overwhelming to you. Instead, you go,
31:38
what's the smallest thing that would have to be done? Okay, I'm gonna do that right now.
31:44
And as far as like the process would go, you know, like, what does it mean?
31:49
What you tell me, if we're going to noncommittally look, like I'm going to look at my situation,
31:58
what are some things that you could look at in this big overwhelming goal of
32:03
eventually downsizing?
32:05
That's a great question, because I can tell you where I've spiraled to. Okay.
32:09
Overwhelming situation is I will go through the process of, well,
32:14
I should start looking at houses that are smaller and what that means for land.
32:19
I can't look at a house now that I might move into in a year and a half.
32:22
So that's a waste of my time. Or then I'll be like, well, what if I needed to
32:27
start staging this house?
32:28
What if I take one bedroom where a kid's moved out and I start to eliminate
32:34
the things and get it staged? And it's like, but we're still going to go through.
32:37
I host everybody for Thanksgiving and Christmas.
32:40
And I have to have enough stuff here to do that. So that's that spiral of where I...
32:46
I think it's the, yes, those spirals happen. So we go, what can we literally just look at?
32:53
It's different to say, I'm going to start looking at houses versus to say,
33:00
I'm going to look and see what the square footage of a house that I can imagine would work.
33:08
Would work. I'm not saying I'm looking at houses because those houses are not
33:11
going to be available in a year and a half.
33:13
But I am going to look at the square footage. I'm going to say,
33:15
okay, this this house right here does have, you know, an office space and a bedroom.
33:21
And it has, you know, looks like I could still host everybody for Thanksgiving dinner or whatever.
33:27
Maybe they couldn't stay there. But, you know, okay, this is it.
33:30
What is the square footage of that?
33:31
Like, So that's looking and saying in a way where I'm like, I have gathered
33:37
legitimate because that's the information you're going to need.
33:39
Right. And then you say this house has this much square footage.
33:44
House I'm in right now has three times that.
33:46
I have some information here that, okay, I'm going to have to get rid of two-thirds of my stuff.
33:51
You know, which is I've looked and seen that deal.
33:59
It might mean you look at what you think your house might sell for.
34:05
And, you know, like, you go, okay, I'm just going to look and see this is what
34:08
the houses in my area have been selling for.
34:11
And so we could probably imagine this is how much we're going to come out with.
34:15
And this is how much we're going to have to, yeah.
34:17
So like, it's a difference between research and like, okay, I got to find all
34:21
these different things. And you go, I'm just going to look noncommittally.
34:24
I'm not necessarily doing anything with this, but I have gathered information.
34:27
And now I know I'm going to have to get rid of two thirds of my stuff.
34:30
When you think that, all of a sudden, a lot of stuff is going to look different to you.
34:34
Right, right, yeah. And, you know, and then you go with the easy stuff. What is the easy stuff?
34:40
You know, is the going ahead and getting rid of stuff that you know you will never move.
34:45
You know, I always tell people when they're thinking about moving,
34:48
I say, go ahead and declutter for the house that you're in right now.
34:51
I'm guessing you have kind of already done, right? Because you're there.
34:54
But there's always more to declutter. Like there's always more to declutter.
34:58
So it's like, go ahead and declutter for this house.
35:02
The things that have no business being in this house, they're definitely not
35:06
going to have business being in the next house.
35:08
And so we, those are things that we can do right now. I can go ahead and go to my basement and.
35:15
Throwaway trash, you know, or whatever. Like the six boxes that never got open
35:20
when we moved here 10 years ago.
35:23
Great list of stuff. Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly.
35:26
So it's moving through that process. And then the noncommittal experimentation
35:30
maybe comes to, you know what, this house right here, we're not moving anytime
35:34
soon, but it kind of looks like the houses in this size that we're wanting to
35:38
go to have this size of a closet.
35:41
Okay, I'm going to mark off in my much bigger closet what that size is.
35:47
And I'm going to say, okay, well, then I would put these here.
35:50
Oh, just doing that made me make me realize I can go ahead and get rid of all
35:53
these things, right? Because I've marked off this is how big my closet rod is
35:57
going to be compared to two thirds, you know, bigger than that, that it is right now.
36:01
And then I experiment with that. And then it's going to move me on in, you know, the process.
36:06
And then you're going to have so much more information and you'll be in the
36:13
midst of the process when you actually get to the time where you have to make your plan.
36:18
Yeah, no, I like that.
36:20
I like putting things in like some concrete examples, like where people are
36:24
procrastinating on things.
36:26
And I do think the lack of a real deadline keeps things fuzzy enough that we
36:34
drag our feet on yes and sometimes well also because let's just be honest,
36:41
you will probably shine in that moment where the deadline happens.
36:44
And you'll be like, I got this.
36:46
But also, you know, I mean, all my kids are out of the house now and life is
36:51
not less busy. It's more busy somehow. Oh, yes.
36:54
What in the world? Why did we ever think it was going to get less busy?
36:57
But, you know, but then you end up regretting it or you end up not being able
37:01
to do things the way that you want to do it because you're like,
37:04
I've always been the rise to the occasion person, but I got so many things to
37:08
rise to the occasion about.
37:09
And so I'm overwhelmed and all that. So it's like, no, this is weighing on you
37:13
as I should go ahead and get some stuff done.
37:15
Using this process is a way for you to go ahead and get stuff done.
37:18
And then by the time you do have
37:20
to kick it into gear, you're going to be already so far down that path.
37:25
Right, right. No, I love that. I know we're about to wrap up our time.
37:30
So I just wanted to encourage anyone that's listening to pre-order.
37:35
Do you want to share what they're getting if they pre-order?
37:39
Because I know it's hard to get a procrastinator to not procrastinate about
37:44
taking action on this book, but you're not delusional about how hard that is.
37:49
Yeah. So do you know when this is going to come out? It'll come out next week.
37:54
Oh, perfect. Oh, yay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So for pre-orders,
37:59
pre-orders are really valuable to authors because it tells the bookstores,
38:03
hey, people want this book and then they'll put it on their shelves so then
38:07
it can gain momentum and people will actually be able to find it when,
38:10
you know, they hear about it and want to get it. So.
38:13
What I am giving for people who pre-order, okay, so just to be clear,
38:18
you pre-order wherever you want to buy a book in any format, audio book, ebook,
38:23
physical book, anything you, whatever you prefer, how to read, order it somewhere.
38:28
And then you come to my site at danakwhite.com slash procrastinate and fill
38:35
out the form there to get your pre-order bonuses because they're all digital
38:39
and they don't come from the people that you buy the book from. They came from me.
38:42
So you come in, you give us your order information, and we will send those out to you immediately.
38:47
So what you get is you get an excerpt of the book, which is what you read. Yes.
38:53
And that gives you an idea. We'll go ahead and get you started.
38:57
I've heard a lot of people who are like, okay, now I know for sure that you
39:00
understand me because you described me in the first several.
39:04
Yes. Trust me. This is a book my audience will love. Absolutely love. So thank you.
39:09
So you get that immediately. And then you get access, you get another email
39:13
with access to four strategy sessions.
39:16
So kind of like what you and I did here, talking about how do we apply this
39:20
five-step process to your overwhelming situation of, we know we're going to
39:26
downsize. We don't know exactly when. We don't know. It doesn't make any sense.
39:29
You know, you start spinning out. We apply that five-step process with four
39:34
people. So they're like exclusive podcasts. You can watch them if you prefer video.
39:38
You can read the transcripts if you prefer video.
39:41
Four people who had read the entire book and we go through their situation.
39:45
So the situations are things like somebody who it's, you know,
39:48
she's been working on a quilt for three years and she wants to finish it.
39:51
Somebody who needs to move a family member into assisted living.
39:55
Somebody who has a retirement account from a previous career and needs to get it moved over.
40:02
And it's been like 10 years and it's just, she had a huge Trello board of all
40:05
these, you know, steps that she thought she needed to take. And we talk through
40:09
how do we apply this process to this thing you've been procrastinating on.
40:12
And then there's one more that I can't think of off the top of my head.
40:15
But anyway, so there's four of these sessions that you immediately,
40:18
to just kind of start to get your mind around like, oh, let's think about these
40:23
overwhelming situations differently. How do we apply this process?
40:27
And then you'll get the book on October 6th, obviously, because,
40:30
you know, if you've pre-ordered it.
40:32
And then after that, we're going to have a book club. So we will meet to discuss,
40:39
the book over the course of October.
40:42
And then those will be available for you to watch. If you're not able to be
40:45
there live, you'll get to watch them through the end of.
40:50
My goal is to help you learn. I literally just had a conversation with my editor
40:55
yesterday for a podcast that's coming out next week about the book.
40:59
And she said, like, there's some statistic.
41:02
I don't remember exactly what it was, but there's some statistic that a lot
41:07
of times people buy self-help books and, like, never read them.
41:15
Because they feel like just buying the self-help book was doing something.
41:20
And I totally get that that's probably true. But my desire always is to actually
41:28
help people solve the problem that they're buying the book to solve.
41:31
I don't want you to not solve your problem of procrastinating.
41:38
That's my real goal. It gets down and dirty in there on let's talk about how
41:44
to actually fix this problem.
41:45
And so I feel like these pre-order bonuses for the people who are already there
41:49
ahead of time, it's a way for me to be like, hey, let's really get in there
41:53
and let's really work on this issue that's been weighing on you.
41:58
I love that. I love that. No, I think they're gonna definitely get so much out of this.
42:02
Just, I can't wait for mine to arrive, like I said, to keep reading because,
42:07
talking about the number of times you feel like you were inside of my head describing
42:10
things that my brain has gone through in my various attempts to procrastinate against things.
42:16
So, yeah, no, I love the opening is busting myths.
42:21
And I love the busting myths. And, yeah, I think it's going to be a great,
42:25
great book for anybody to order.
42:27
And I will put all of the links in the show notes and make sure everybody has
42:31
an easy way to get that if you're not sure where to go. But,
42:34
yeah, no, I appreciate your time. I appreciate the book.
42:37
Thank you so much for having me on again. Thank you.
42:42
I'm going to stop here.