Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / You Can't Make Your Wife Desire You, But You Can Ask For Her To Try

Transcript

You Can't Make Your Wife Desire You, But You Can Ask For Her To Try · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the doctor.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today, I'm going to be talking about how you
• 0:11
  can't really make your wife desire, you, but you can ask her
• 0:15
  to try and what does this mean? And what are the two different
• 0:18
  kinds of situations where the supplies?
• 0:21
  And one of them is post menopause and everybody's always
• 0:24
  so interested in menopause because, you know, a lot of you
• 0:28
  guys, see the writing on the wall, some some of the
• 0:30
  followers, I have women who are actively postmenopausal, or are
• 0:34
  women Who are actively postmenopausal, but many of my
• 0:37
  listeners just want to know what's going to happen at that
• 0:40
  phase of life. And so that's, you know, to your
• 0:42
  credit to try to plan ahead. You'll never exactly know till
• 0:45
  you get there though, but I will address that just as soon as I
• 0:48
  tell you to subscribe, my most recent subscriber episode was on
• 0:52
  how my advice to have sex with your husband differs from
• 0:55
  religious advice to have sex with your husband, even though I
• 0:58
  get a lot of religious people now, which is something that,
• 1:03
  you know, I never really, really Got the fourth seems like the
• 1:06
  idea of sex, being part of marriage.
• 1:11
  You know, the fact that I am in favor of that.
• 1:14
  Assuming both people want sex. If neither person want sex I
• 1:17
  could give a shit what you do. But the idea that if one person
• 1:20
  wants sex that is a meaningful you know thing that should
• 1:24
  create a and an impact versus just being ignored.
• 1:28
  Seems to resonate with a lot of religious people who's who end
• 1:33
  up in sexless marriages it seems as well and frequently for
• 1:36
  different reasons which have addressed a lot in my podcasts
• 1:39
  on my post. I think it was on basically be
• 1:43
  careful if you never have sex before marriage, but anyway,
• 1:46
  that's getting a little far afield.
• 1:48
  So, back to the topic today. So there's two types of people
• 1:52
  who are two types of women, who have low libido.
• 1:55
  The ones who still have sex with their husband, and the ones who
• 1:57
  don't. So the ones who don't they're,
• 2:01
  they're not really trying, right?
• 2:02
  I mean definitionally and I He's talking about within the context
• 2:06
  of a marriage that's at least somewhat functional, where the
• 2:09
  woman is not being abused, or something like that, where she
• 2:12
  wants to stay married. So if a woman wants to stay
• 2:15
  married, but just decides that she is never going to have sex.
• 2:19
  If she doesn't experience spontaneous desire, then she
• 2:22
  really needs to listen to my stuff on responsive desire.
• 2:25
  Of course, I'm not the one who came up with that, that is just
• 2:27
  a thing that exists in the world.
• 2:29
  You can Google it, responsive desire.
• 2:32
  I have a whole podcast about it. It's means.
• 2:34
  Basically when you touch and have foreplay and kissing, then
• 2:37
  you can get into the mood. But before that you have zero
• 2:40
  desire, and that's the type of Desire that most women with in
• 2:43
  monogamy, have especially over the course of the Life Span.
• 2:46
  Sometimes people write in there, like all my wife who's like, 25
• 2:49
  years old, still has spontaneous desire.
• 2:51
  Is she anomalous? Know, she's 25.
• 2:54
  Everything works better when you're younger.
• 2:56
  I mean, let's be real. So you know, wait till she has a
• 2:59
  few kids and she's in her mid 30s like you know then we could
• 3:02
  talk but yes, young man. Going to women.
• 3:05
  It's can be very, very, very high libido.
• 3:08
  You know, and, you know just want sex all the time in those
• 3:12
  kind of women. Usually don't have the same
• 3:15
  decrease although it will still be a decrease in monogamy with
• 3:18
  kids over time with age. But you know if you start out
• 3:21
  like super high libido having sex three times a day then of
• 3:24
  course the decrement is probably going to be less that's just
• 3:27
  common sensical. But anyhow, there's the women
• 3:30
  that refused to even try to see if they have responsive desire.
• 3:34
  And then there's the women who are trying.
• 3:36
  So it's like, you know, there are women who are
• 3:39
  postmenopausal, who are still having sex like once or twice a
• 3:42
  week, if you're in that situation and then you're still,
• 3:45
  you're complaining that she doesn't act like she desires
• 3:48
  you, but she's still trying to. I me shit.
• 3:51
  How much more can she do? Right.
• 3:53
  She doesn't have any sex hormones at all.
• 3:55
  She's getting into bed with you. She's trying to experience,
• 3:59
  desire. I mean she's having sex.
• 4:03
  You don't like you can't. You And get blood from a stone,
• 4:06
  you know, she has no desire anymore, she doesn't have
• 4:10
  spontaneous and she may not have much responsive, but if she is
• 4:14
  postmenopausal and and I will have also a podcast coming out
• 4:17
  because some guys are like, well, she's postmenopausal, but
• 4:20
  she refuses to take hormones. Like so, you know, I mean
• 4:24
  there's there's a stages of life here, you know?
• 4:27
  And but I'll talk about that in the upcoming podcast on it.
• 4:30
  But like, you know, guys act like that's a free lunch and we
• 4:33
  all know what I say my Husband said it's going to make it into
• 4:35
  a drinking game. How often I say?
• 4:37
  No free lunch on these, but there's no free lunch, guys.
• 4:41
  Everything has side effects. Everything has even just
• 4:45
  emotional and spiritual, you know, and we'll talk about that
• 4:49
  in that podcast. But that one, just irritates me
• 4:51
  because it's like well then why don't you take a damn pill to
• 4:53
  get rid of your sex drive? Because I mean what the fuck?
• 4:57
  Like it's not it's not a natural state, right?
• 5:00
  For like somebody who is postmenopausal to have like a
• 5:04
  Active sex life, when they can no longer have babies, when
• 5:08
  that's no longer, kind of the point, if they're still getting
• 5:10
  into bed with you and trying good on them.
• 5:15
  Great on them, they are really being an active participant and
• 5:18
  they're trying, you cannot Beyond a woman getting into bed
• 5:22
  and you trying to be the best lover that you can be at the
• 5:25
  post menopausal stage. Or let's say, she's nursing,
• 5:28
  right? Nursing also puts you into sort
• 5:30
  of a menopause like State, because as I explained so many
• 5:34
  times another Podcast, your body doesn't want you to have another
• 5:36
  baby so it's not making a lot of Desire.
• 5:39
  Because why does it want you to have another baby?
• 5:41
  Your milk is going to go away, you're not going to have the
• 5:43
  resources for the current baby Etc.
• 5:46
  Anyway if you are wife is getting into bed with you and
• 5:51
  she is trying and she is game to try.
• 5:54
  You cannot ask for more than that.
• 5:57
  Do you have to stay with her? No.
• 5:59
  Do you don't have to do anything in this life, right?
• 6:01
  I mean, you could get divorced. You can do whatever the hell you
• 6:03
  want, but Tell you, you know, if you are going to leave a
• 6:07
  postmenopausal woman that's still dried to have sex with you
• 6:11
  then. I mean, I don't know, like, it's
• 6:13
  some point, we got to think about ethics, you know, but then
• 6:16
  again, maybe she would be thrilled if you left because
• 6:20
  then she'd be like, thank God, I can just be basically, there was
• 6:23
  a funny meme. That said, I want to go into my
• 6:25
  swamp which stage like a woman saying that she's ready for her
• 6:29
  swamp, which phase, which is just like the time when she
• 6:32
  doesn't have to care how she looks anymore.
• 6:34
  You know, and it's just over kinds of that whole, you know,
• 6:37
  hormonal e driven looks driven cycle.
• 6:40
  She felt that she was in the next stage and you know,
• 6:42
  thousands upon Millions probably of women like that Meme because
• 6:47
  there's something, you know, like there's something natural
• 6:51
  about it. Like, it's so funny.
• 6:53
  When sometimes I say to men and couples counseling, I'll be
• 6:55
  like, but what about your grandma, like should somebody
• 6:59
  have been trying to, like, have sex with your grandma all the
• 7:02
  time? They're like, no, no that's
• 7:03
  different, you know. Understand.
• 7:05
  You know, my wife is a very attractive 58 year old woman,
• 7:11
  she looks nothing like my grandma, give a shit how pretty
• 7:14
  she is. She still 58 year old woman like
• 7:16
  your grandma was people don't, you know, get their hair done
• 7:19
  once a week at the salon in rollers anymore but it's still
• 7:22
  the same body, the same biology, whatever.
• 7:27
  So here's, here's the point. You can ask for your wife to try
• 7:32
  but you cannot create desire out.
• 7:34
  Of nothing. And I'm totally on board with
• 7:38
  helping her, be her best self and try to be the best lover.
• 7:42
  You could be tried to open up, conversations, about sex.
• 7:45
  Try, try to be do whatever her love language is.
• 7:48
  I talk A Million Ways about how to be a better partner lover.
• 7:53
  A Kinder person, Stop Playing devil's.
• 7:55
  Advocate stop soaking. Stop drinking.
• 7:58
  Stop being an asshole. All of these things, fine.
• 8:01
  But you cannot get blood from a stone if a woman The not have
• 8:05
  any desire and she's still trying to be with you, then at
• 8:10
  some point. Don't you just have to say, do I
• 8:12
  love this person and will I recognize that they're trying?
• 8:15
  And can that be enough for me? You know, for many people you
• 8:19
  know, they can't have an epiphany like yeah.
• 8:21
  Like, literally, like, kind of what else can she do?
• 8:24
  You know, it's like it reminds me.
• 8:25
  I use the kid with ADHD analogy all the time.
• 8:28
  A lot of people they think their kid is just bad.
• 8:30
  They're just misbehaving, they're just kind of being like
• 8:33
  a smartass. Then they get an ADHD diagnosis
• 8:36
  from an evaluation. And the parent is like, oh my
• 8:39
  God, that is the best. They could listen, they can't
• 8:43
  listen, they can't listen, their brain doesn't let them listen.
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  So I guess for my kid, they're behaving pretty good for who
• 8:51
  they are for how their brain is wired.
• 8:53
  They're behaving pretty good. So like if the kid doesn't even
• 8:56
  try, there's a big difference between a kid that literally if
• 8:59
  you go back through all the memories, you could be like,
• 9:02
  they just kind of don't hear me. It's just like Charlie Brown's
• 9:05
  mother talking when I talk, you know, Rama Rama Rama, you know,
• 9:09
  and that must be what it's like for my kid.
• 9:12
  And so, there's a big difference between that kind of kid, and
• 9:15
  the kid that says, fuck you Mom, I'm not doing x y z, right?
• 9:19
  So your wife, if we're going back to the analogy is not
• 9:23
  saying, fuck you mom. She's trying.
• 9:25
  She's getting into bed, she's trying.
• 9:27
  But if there's no response of Desire either, what would you
• 9:32
  have her do would you? Have her ride around to give a
• 9:36
  fake orgasm performance, like Meg, Ryan and went to Harry Met
• 9:39
  Sally. She's just gonna end up
• 9:41
  resenting. You and hating you.
• 9:43
  And looking at you, like a child, that needs to be lied to.
• 9:46
  And I always tell women not to fake orgasms, you know, because
• 9:50
  it trains the man to do the wrong thing, but you also can't
• 9:53
  really fake desire. You can act enthusiastic at the
• 9:56
  beginning stages to try to get yourself invested, you know, and
• 10:01
  but if you don't feel any desire.
• 10:04
  Or no matter what you do and you cannot like, pretend to be a 25
• 10:10
  year old woman in the throes of passion.
• 10:12
  If you are, if that's inverted and you're 52, year-old woman
• 10:15
  and you just don't want to do it anymore.
• 10:18
  So if you're still getting there and doing it and going to bed
• 10:22
  with a game face on, but you just don't feel the same level
• 10:26
  of desire, which is what a lot of men say to me, but but she
• 10:29
  just doesn't act like she wants to, you know, be there the same
• 10:32
  way. It's just not the same way.
• 10:34
  It's It's just not how it used to be.
• 10:36
  Yeah, you know, like you're also not how you used to be.
• 10:39
  I'm sure. And it's just like, if she said,
• 10:42
  can't you just act, you know, I made this analogy at some point.
• 10:45
  Can't you just remember that time?
• 10:46
  We were both 17 and you blew off work and we went to the beach
• 10:50
  and and, you know, we had sex and you wrote me a poem.
• 10:54
  You're not that guy. You're running a business.
• 10:56
  You're doing whatever the hell you're doing.
• 10:58
  You're probably a lawyer. Well, doctor whatever you can't
• 11:01
  just do that type of shit anymore because you're not 17.
• 11:04
  Old and neither is she. So at a certain point in life,
• 11:09
  there's a balance between acceptance and change with
• 11:11
  everything. If your wife is trying to still
• 11:14
  be game and she's still trying to get herself in the mood.
• 11:18
  And you're just noticing an absence of the same desire that
• 11:22
  she used to have, what else can she do.
• 11:23
  She can't do much if it's really that upsetting to you and it
• 11:27
  usually is because it means you're old, the guy doesn't want
• 11:30
  to be old anymore. I talked about this in the
• 11:32
  menopause podcast. He does want to be old yet.
• 11:34
  Yet. And so her accepting her age and
• 11:37
  her being like, yeah, I guess it's just not how it used to be.
• 11:39
  He takes out personally and it's much worse.
• 11:42
  If he has preoccupied attachment refer to the preoccupied
• 11:45
  attachment husband podcast. And then he thinks that
• 11:48
  basically she is sliding him into an early grave by her
• 11:52
  ability to quite honestly admirably.
• 11:55
  Except where she's at in life, which is really kind of the goal
• 11:58
  of all therapies, like, self compassion, acceptance, that
• 12:03
  kind of thing. So, Like realizing where you're
• 12:05
  at maturity evolving, you know, that that's where a lot of men
• 12:11
  and women are cross purposes because I talked about this with
• 12:15
  the biology of women across the lifespan etcetera, women have
• 12:19
  had a lot of change biologically over their lives.
• 12:21
  They've had, they've started to have their period had about 12
• 12:24
  or 13, then later on, they get pregnant.
• 12:26
  They start nursing, they stopped nursing they get pregnant again,
• 12:30
  you know, they get their body back, they don't get their body
• 12:32
  back. Whatever the case may be women.
• 12:34
  I also have more medical issues because of all of this
• 12:37
  childbirth stuff, that's always happening, you know, and there's
• 12:41
  just and then they have menopause.
• 12:42
  So, I mean, they're kind of used to the fact that like, you can't
• 12:45
  try to and they have PMS every single month, you know, they get
• 12:48
  their period. So, they're used to the fact
• 12:50
  that like there's no accounting for biology.
• 12:52
  Like you can't get out ahead of Life Changes, you can't decide
• 12:57
  they're not going to happen, you know, that doesn't matter.
• 13:00
  So like they're better at acceptance generally.
• 13:03
  The women that are not Are like sometimes I get in, you know,
• 13:07
  women are like 30 years old. They're like, my 60 year old
• 13:10
  mother, she tries to, like, dress the same as me.
• 13:12
  She tries to flirt with like my husband, the women that cannot
• 13:16
  accept getting older and do crazy.
• 13:17
  Things like that are generally of the more narcissistic
• 13:20
  variety. So it's actually a positive.
• 13:22
  If your wife is not like that, be the be-all of this as it may.
• 13:27
  We cannot create desire out of nothing.
• 13:29
  So if a woman is trying, she's trying to get in bed with you
• 13:32
  and she's trying the Young Unger.
• 13:34
  She is the better. It's gonna go if for her to try
• 13:38
  then mostly her responsive desire will probably kick in.
• 13:42
  So it's like, this, here's another good analogy that is
• 13:44
  actually not just an analogy because many of you may be in
• 13:47
  this position. So let's say that your wife is
• 13:49
  on an antidepressant. And the antidepressant mean she
• 13:52
  has no desire and she can't orgasm the situation.
• 13:55
  Many of you are in because of the high rates of
• 13:58
  antidepressant, use, so many women will do this cost-benefit
• 14:02
  analysis. So how much do I need?
• 14:04
  Antidepressant. Can I try another
• 14:06
  antidepressant? So if they will try, if they'll
• 14:10
  think about trying, another one or, you know, at least talking
• 14:13
  to their doctor, then they're trying, you know, their game
• 14:16
  there. They understand.
• 14:17
  Sex is important to you at cetera, Etc.
• 14:19
  But what about the situation that they've tried everything,
• 14:22
  this is the only antidepressant that works so that they're not
• 14:24
  suicidal or Screaming in Rage at your children, right.
• 14:27
  They already go to therapy and this antidepressant.
• 14:31
  Adjunctive Lee is the only thing that has made their life.
• 14:33
  Bearable Well, you know what, then it is what it is, right?
• 14:36
  I mean that that's what I think as a therapist as a human being
• 14:40
  ethically. Then it is what it is.
• 14:42
  And if you can't live with that then you need to have a
• 14:44
  conversation that says, I need a woman who expresses more desire
• 14:48
  to me, you can no longer do that with the antidepressant or
• 14:51
  insert with menopause here or whatever.
• 14:55
  And so we need to talk about ending the relationship.
• 14:57
  So, what's so wonderful? By the way about doing that, and
• 15:00
  I don't mean this to be snarky. This is dead serious.
• 15:02
  It's if you do that. You may actually end up with a
• 15:06
  woman that doesn't want to be with you, anyway, which is the
• 15:09
  best case, right? So like if a woman has had,
• 15:14
  let's say an active sex life with you for 20 years.
• 15:17
  And so she met you when she was like 35 now she's 55.
• 15:22
  She does not have an active sex life with you anymore.
• 15:24
  She tries to have sex with you is certainly not what it used to
• 15:27
  be and she doesn't have an orgasm, a lot of the time she
• 15:31
  doesn't want to go on hormones for various reasons.
• 15:34
  Let's just even say that she had a breast cancer risk.
• 15:37
  And her doctor said to her, this is something that I hear people
• 15:40
  say to me, my doctor said, I shouldn't do it.
• 15:42
  If I have a breast cancer risk or let's even forget about the
• 15:45
  cancer risk because that is some people say, it is a risk.
• 15:49
  Some people say it's not a risk, the evidence inconclusive.
• 15:51
  But let's easy, Let's do an easier one.
• 15:55
  She doesn't want to do it because she's up to menopause.
• 15:58
  Like psychologically, it would be incoherent for her to have
• 16:03
  the desire. Drive of a younger woman when
• 16:05
  psychologically, she is made. She's made peace with getting
• 16:10
  older, right? And she's ready to be at that
• 16:13
  stage of life. So, if you say to her, you know
• 16:16
  what, 20 years of sex notwithstanding at this juncture
• 16:20
  at 55, I do not like that. You don't have the same desire
• 16:25
  as a younger woman so I would like to bring up the
• 16:27
  conversation of us separating. You're making it so easy on her
• 16:31
  because you sound like a prick Ivy.
• 16:33
  Really You sound pretty selfish whether or not you are is not my
• 16:37
  purview. I'm not sure, you know,
• 16:39
  spiritual advisor, but you are going to sound like such a dick
• 16:43
  to her after the 20 years of trying to give, you know, you
• 16:47
  her best on her, you trying to give her your best.
• 16:50
  She's going to be like, man, he just literally is so scared of
• 16:53
  Aging, my God, you know, like I guess is going to go be one of
• 16:56
  those guys that they to 20 year old girl, good live.
• 16:59
  And be well, many women will say that you'll be giving them like
• 17:03
  a better. Excuse them, like they're not
• 17:06
  going to be as unhappy with you leaving if you frame it like
• 17:09
  that because truly what it means is I'm not with you for better.
• 17:12
  And for worse, I'm just with you till the end of this extra it in
• 17:16
  the case that the woman is still try.
• 17:19
  In the case that she still try to save with the antidepressant
• 17:22
  woman, if she's still getting into bed and try if even, let's
• 17:25
  say, in the case of menopausal women with vaginal atrophy,
• 17:29
  which is as attractive as it sounds, it means that the vid
• 17:33
  the muscles and the the Flesh of the vagina it atrophies because
• 17:37
  there's no more estrogen there. Right.
• 17:39
  And this is what some women take estrogen cream to help with.
• 17:42
  Doesn't help us much with desire.
• 17:44
  But it helps with the pain of intercourse.
• 17:46
  Would you have after menopause? So the women with vaginal
• 17:48
  atrophy, if she still tries to give you like a hand job or a
• 17:51
  blowjob every so often great, she's being an awesome wife if
• 17:55
  you say, but she doesn't look at me with love during the blowjob.
• 17:58
  Well then you know, I mean, really, I mean, what could you
• 18:01
  really say? Are you 100% perfect of a
• 18:03
  person? But does this mean you have to
• 18:05
  stay married? No but also as I said in the
• 18:08
  menopause podcast certainly know that you're not coming off like
• 18:11
  mr. Deep, but you don't really you
• 18:14
  may not really care. You may say I have one life and
• 18:16
  I want another woman to look at me with desire before I die.
• 18:19
  All right, cool. So you got to really make peace
• 18:22
  with who you are and what you want.
• 18:24
  But what is it really fair is to say to a woman.
• 18:28
  I even though you're trying is still not good enough because
• 18:31
  your desired levels are not high enough in the This situation,
• 18:35
  you probably should cut her loose and let her live her best
• 18:38
  life, where she doesn't have to get into bed twice a week with
• 18:41
  somebody that you know is still not happy even though she's a
• 18:46
  different human being that she was years ago or in the the
• 18:51
  antidepressant situation even though she has the sex drive of
• 18:55
  a cabinet, you know, like nothing.
• 18:58
  So anyway I hope that this opens up your mind to a different
• 19:00
  perspective as I always try to do, please do subscribe.
• 19:04
  Scribe. And please do join my Facebook
• 19:06
  group. It is almost a 12.
• 19:07
  By the time you hear this, I record these in advance.
• 19:09
  I'm sure I will be over 200 members in there and it's
• 19:14
  awesome discussions and you would really like it if you like
• 19:16
  listening to me. All right, talk to you soon.
• 19:18
  Bye, bye.