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Kristin Graham on the Power of the Pause · Expertly Said

• Kristen Sweeney: My guest today is Kristen Graham, founder at Unlock the Brain. Kristen is the person you call when you're smart, capable, and still somehow getting in your own way. After a career in journalism and more than two decades leading communications at companies like Amazon and Expedia, she realized the most interesting story she could tell was the one happening inside people's heads. So she built Unlock the Brain and launched the podcast Fewer Things Better to do exactly that. You're listening to Expertly Said, a podcast on the art and impact of communication. I'm Kristen Sweeney, founder and CEO of Every Little Word. Kristen translates neuroscience into the kind of practical, clear, immediately useful insights that make you go, ⁓ that's what's actually happening. Her specialty is finding the smallest shift that creates the most momentum and making it feel obvious in hindsight. As someone who has lived on both sides of the overthinking and overdoing brain, she's now on a personal mission to find the art of slow productivity, good sleep, and making more space for fun in the go-go days. Kristen, welcome to the show. Kristin Graham: Thank you, Kristen. I love a double Kristen gift with purchase. Kristen Sweeney: Same, same. Very happy to have you here and really excited about this conversation. You're a self-proclaimed fellow word nerd, but with this really cool neuroscience lens on things. So I think we're gonna be talking, you know, not just about communicating, but about all of the sort of habits we have that inform our ability to do that. Kristin Graham: So true, so true. Kristen Sweeney: So tell us a little bit more about your origin story. Let's start with how you began in communications. Was that always a career field you were you gravitated toward? That's it for this episode of Expertly Said. We are produced by Every Little Word, a boutique content and communications agency. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Subscribe, share the episode with a colleague, or leave us a review. If you want to connect with me directly, please do. You can find me on LinkedIn, just search Kristen Sweeney. Thanks for listening. Talk soon. Kristin Graham: ⁓ I I didn't even know that was a career field. Like I thought that communication and storytelling was a personality characteristic. I mean, how did I start on an old typewriter in my bedroom? It's just it was out of ⁓ boredom that or or curiosity. I think that that was always talking to people and doing it. But I didn't know communications was really a thing. When I went to my small liberal arts college, Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Kristin Graham: I picked English as a major, it was the closest thing that would interest me. They didn't even have all those nuances now that you can do. And it was only later that I realized it was a skill set that could translate into a career, multidisciplinary career. But in the beginning I just thought it was, yeah, she's communicative, not communications. Which I'm both. Kristen Sweeney: ⁓ Yeah, I love that. So tell me about what happened after school then. You've got your English major and where do you go from there? Kristin Graham: ⁓ yes. I English, yes. English creative writing with my senior project in poetry. So I was destined for great things. I mean it was all it was all there. I yes. no, so after graduating, you you you just go to get any job. I mean, maybe there's other people who did it differently. Not for me. I was first generation female to ever get a college degree. I was just happy to to do anything and I started in nonprofit, which kind of just sets the bar for will work for free. And but I love being able to sponge up everything around. I just have a natural curiosity. So in doing that, people would just throw things at me. They're like, well, why don't you be in charge of all the interns? Why don't you do our ⁓ PR? And I'm like, okay, like let me go look up what PR stands for. And I stumbled through a lot of that until I I always wanted to do magazines. I thought that would just be the best thing ever. Kristen Sweeney: Ha. Kristin Graham: And I found a local publisher, the ones that used to do like Beanie Baby magazines and you know the New York Mets win the world series. Somebody's gonna correct me on that one. ⁓ but you know, the the standalones. And I was in and and I loved it. That's when the world wide web was evolving and the advertisers and the all of it. It was just such a fun thing. And I thought this can actually be a career. Maybe I should go to school and Learn the structure of that. And ⁓ that's when I decided to go to grad school and I went to journalism school. Kristen Sweeney: Nice, nice. I I love what you said about ⁓ setting a baseline for compensation. ⁓ try try weekly summer stock pay as an actor. Kristin Graham: Yeah, it's like ⁓ some chicken nuggets. Yeah. And you love it. You just love it. You're just so excited. Yeah. Kristen Sweeney: Yes, of course. Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ so take us through kind of next steps now, how you get from there to Amazon and Expedia and then all the way to sort of a I think a pr pretty pivotal moment in your in your career in your life that led you to ⁓ unlock the brain. Kristin Graham: Yeah, I always say that a story is good in telling only through hindsight. So my resume was accidentally strategic. None of it was planned. There was no PowerPoint. There was no like career mentors. It was very much like, okay. So I came out of ⁓ grad school and had a job offer to go to New York. You and I probably would have crossed paths because I know you were there as well. and my husband at the time was he was like, Why would we leave? I was in Chicago. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Kristin Graham: why why would why would we leave this city? And I was like, it's New York. Once you go to New York, and yes, we'll be super poor, but it'll be a story. You know, I like to collect stories. And it ended up being fortuitous as all major arcs tend to be, because it was 2001. And I would have been in New York on 9-11. And there's ⁓ there's just times where life knows better than you. That's kind of how I've come to see it. at the time. Like one of my favorite quotes, and I have many, is sometimes what didn't work out for you really worked out for you. And so what I was doing was being a stringer at in reporter in Chicago. And a girlfriend was dating a guy who was a recruiter. I didn't even know what that was, like what's a recruiter? And he was like, hey, I need people to go on interviews and you've got this pedigree, because I just came out of Northwestern. Like I had no applicable experience, but ⁓ I look good on paper. And he was like, Do want to go on a job interview? And I ended up going, imagine this, like your first kind of corporate y thing was a panel interview. Like, and again, I didn't know corporate. And I was like, ⁓ is this what everybody does? It's like you just come up with five people. It's like I was defending my thesis. I didn't know what this was. I was like, Well, this is fun, and we're gonna do a popcorn round. And they would ask these questions, which now I know are behavioral-based questions. And I just was like, Well, let me give you Kristen's free opinion, which Kristen Sweeney: Ha ha ha. Kristin Graham: really should be trademarked because it's never gone away. And I was like, ⁓ that sounds stupid. And I mean, I'm sure I was a little bit more, maybe, but I just christened all over ⁓ this interview. And oddly enough, they decided to offer me a job. They were kind of like, this this cat is not like the others. And that transition into corporate because at the time it was like a hundred-year-old, you know, Fortune 100 company, all the Kristen Sweeney: Ha ha ha Kristin Graham: all the stats and I got to do a rotation within what at the time was called corporate relations. Everything from speech writing to investor relations to events to this thing called new media. Maybe we should start a wait for it, intranet. So it was it was a really it was a really fun side door that I got into corporate thinking, ⁓ everybody must do this. But it was also very Dilbertian. Kristen Sweeney: Nice. Mm-hmm. Kristin Graham: meaning the Dilbert cartoon. So it was the best of both. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've you've talked about and I know we're gonna there's more to the career the career journey, but you've talked about it as a kind of a kaleidoscope career. And you've mentioned it was maybe accidentally strategic or not sort of pre-planned. I feel similarly that I've kind of moved through multiple Kristin Graham: Mm. Kristen Sweeney: It like really career reinventions, multiple industries. ⁓ and I wouldn't trade it, but it's I can also see that it's, you know, is when you're starting over, you're a little bit older, but you're still starting over. so how do you think about a kaleidoscope career? Is that something that's how do you define it? And is it something you're you think you know, young people, for example, should be aiming to achieve. If you did it again, would you say, ⁓ you know, set a goal and like work kind of work that plan all the way toward a clear goal? How do you think about it, as you said, in hindsight? Kristin Graham: Well, I love that you're asking that now because now I have children who are about ⁓ that age when I was making my very freestyling decisions. I my sons are 20 and 22, and one just graduated from college and he's doing his first kind of parlay into it. And no, I I very much identify with a kaleidoscope aspect of it because there is no formula. There's no formula. I mean, I was starting before or just as. The internet was evolving, and now we're in the age of AI, and both my kids are bemoaning that, saying it's gonna take our jobs, and mother's like, yes, and think of all the jobs it's gonna create that don't even exist yet. The fact that you and I both do podcasts was nothing I ever would have seen 10 years ago, much less back then. So, what I think becomes a lot more interesting is when there isn't a formula. Now I totally am coming back to what you're saying though. In the moment it's scary. You're on faith and fumes. But what I have found is to really pay attention to where the resistance comes. Because I like, for example, I went into this stayed insurance company. Now that wasn't my forever home, but my goodness, I got so much out of it. And if I had said, wait, is this the hat I always want to wear? Versus is this what I want to wear for now? Kristen Sweeney: Mm. Kristin Graham: And I knew that I was wired, at least what appeared differently, in that I got bored easily. That's that's what made me a good journalist, because I wanted to explore and keep learning. But that wasn't necessarily shown as a career path. Whereas now, when I look at my my oldest son, he had a YouTube channel when he was a sophomore, right? I'm still struggling with mine. And I think that there's this, there's this beautiful gig economy. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Kristin Graham: There's this element where our there's gonna be myriad outlets for our talent that w that will not be perfectly captured into a job description. And that's what I really hope people can release themselves from. Especially you talked about pivoting when you were unexpectedly pivoted through circumstances, and you're trying to go out and apply for jobs, and you're like, I don't fit here. You're not supposed to fit there. That's like a 60% match at best. And yet we try to cram ourselves into these identities and these career paths instead of being like, that sounds interesting. Let me see if I can give it a try. And I'll take confidence any day over competence because that's where the evolution happens. But again, easy for me to say looking back. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah, sure. The the ability to figure it out, I think, especially as a small business owner, is so critical, right? Like that ability to learn and I see yeah, certain traits, critical thinking, ⁓ that kind of like resilience, curiosity that tie very closely to our core values at our company that Kristin Graham: It is. Kristen Sweeney: That matter more than the specific domain expertise at the end of the day, because you will be willing to figure it out, even if yeah. Kristin Graham: Yes. Yes. And what I love your I love words and I loved your point about resilience. ⁓ I think there's something to be said when resilience is required and not a water bottle sticker, right? Like hashtag grit. ⁓ resilience is working for a nonprofit and trying to pay your bills. Resilience is all the things. I yes, going to going to grad school and Being pregnant did that. Just all of the, I think it's the grit that turns into grace later. But in the moment, it doesn't feel like I'm in my resilience era. It's it's the it's the gravel. And so I think that there's the other thing that I've really come to learn is figure outable isn't always a natural or teachable skill. Sometimes it Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Kristin Graham: comes in different forms. And that's part of what I've learned through my work with ⁓ neuroscience is that the elements as I said earlier, I thought that communication was just my personality. The fact that words come easily to me, I have now learned is part of my brain wiring, just as the people who are very musical or or multilingual or really can do the math easy. I'm more like, I'll wait, I'll wait till y'all figure out the tip. But there's We have natural strengths, but that doesn't mean that we can't explore the areas. And having ⁓ I have two neurospicy children, adults, I guess, ⁓ and being like, ⁓ figure out is different to me than it is to my son who's on the autism spectrum. So not making it a story of this is entrepreneurial, more like this was my path, and it might look different for others, but there's room for all of Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, absolutely. So let's take take us through ⁓ that pivot into neuroscience. I know there's some family ties kind of that that drove part of that, at least part of that decision. Can you talk us through it? Kristin Graham: Well, it wasn't even conscious at the time. Like I said, I'm this curious, multiple changing jobs, doing different things. And that first job I was mentioning to you offered an MBA to employees or or to a cohort. And so I'm like, I'm new here. I have no experience. I feel like I should raise my hand. Which BT dubs, always raise your hand. Always raise your hand. If nobody picks you, fine, but somebody might. And so I had the hubris to go and be like, hey, do you do you want to pick me? And here's where where I will make a note on diversity, where it worked in my favor. ⁓ they were like, Yeah, I guess we should have some women in this program. So there was 25 people selected. It it it in hindsight, it was it was they paid for the MBA, they brought the professors to the campus, all the accoutrements of corporate life at that time. But there was five women and I got pregnant a month into it and then had with my first child and then had my I was seven months pregnant when I accepted the degree on the stage with my second child. So in the three years that I got my MBA, I had the two babies. part of the pivot came just through ⁓ not even understanding what neuroscience at the time, ⁓ because I had just finished stint in my Midwestern corporate. ⁓ very, very rewarding, very stable. But I decided for fun to ⁓ go to the dot coms. So neuroscience came to me on a personal basis at first. And it when was tipping into ⁓ Big things in my career. I had just taken a job at the dot-coms and moved to the West Coast. And my kids were not even two and four by this point. And right before, and ⁓ their their dad was a stay-at-home parent, which was amazing because I got this global 24-7 dot com job. And my oldest was in preschool at the time, and right before we moved out to Seattle, where I still am. Happily. The preschool people said, Hey, we're not able to continue having this at the time, three and a half-year-old. And be and here's a sheet of paper that explains what autism is, a single sheet of paper. And they slid it across the desk, and I was like, okay. I mean, I'd heard of it, like we've heard of other things, and I I knew that's a whole separate story about parenting instinct, but also. the limits that labels put on to people and good intentions of information and education do not a future make. So when these people said, here's why your son can't be in this school, and a photocopied piece of paper, and one of the things was here's here's what they may never be able to do. And the only thing I remember was it said, say I love you. And like, you wanna piss off a scrappy mama bear? Like, I was like, okay, have you have you met my son? No, but and I'm like, okay, that's all I need. And I took the little piece of paper and went and sobbed in my car, as one does, and went home, kissed both my kids, got my suitcase and flew out for my interviews for the dot coms. And it was we didn't have Wi-Fi and planes at that time, but I started looking into What is this neurodivergence? And what I found in that from my journalist roots was neuroplasticity. And I was like, so the brain is like Play-Doh. And so there's there are parameters, but there's also potential. And so it is it was through that basis of using, yeah, just adrenaline, right? With with research. And at the time, I then take a new job and I get elevated very quickly into a communications role. I became the basically the chief of chief comms at this over the course of the decade I was there. I was spending my day doing elegant words. And I was going home and being like, How do I communicate to this different brain? So, and then I got an extra universal blessing because my younger son is ADHD. So one size doesn't fit all even when you're trying to do neuroplasticity. So I'm like back to the research we go. And the more I studied or learned, I should say, the more I realized God, I could really bring this stuff to corporate. I could bring this to the dot comers. I could and plus it was a global company. And then that all they kept putting like learning and development was under me and diversity was under me. And I'm like, well let's go, because this is just my life. And I was like, wait a minute, these principles Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Kristin Graham: really apply, yeah, th I can't do one beautiful message that I thought the poetry major in me thought was fantastic. Instead I'm like, I have to understand the audiences and I have to understand how people process information. And I and then I also did speaking and and helping everybody and like, how are they learning? What's our auditory capacity? And it just became the most unintentional life lab that my beautiful career allowed this intersection with my life. And and at at that time I just thought both of these things will make both of the areas better. I didn't have a vision at that time that I would end up doing this for a living. But neuroscience was another side door. Kristen Sweeney: What a like you said, in retrospect, right? Everything seems to kind of fit beautifully together and makes perfect sense. It doesn't always feel like that. ⁓ I know that you've you mentioned kind of in your bio, right? We heard about kind of being on multiple sides of the maybe overwhelm, overdoing, overthinking spectrum. Have you had experience with burnout and ⁓ Kristin Graham: Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Hm. Kristen Sweeney: I ask this in particular because I think for, you know, we have a lot of comms and marketing folks. It's our audience. And those folks, it's very easy for your time to feel like it's been chopped up into confetti that you are across so many platforms and so many tabs and so many channels and so many ways to communicate and so much, so many different initiatives that ⁓ Kristin Graham: Yes. Kristen Sweeney: you're this can be my experience too if I don't structure my time well that that you're just kind of spinning your wheels and before you know it you're just clicking between screens not actually getting anything done. ⁓ which is certainly a recipe for overwhelm and burnout. So ⁓ curious about your personal experience and then anything you can maybe share that helped you ⁓ get out of it ⁓ I think would be really valuable for our audience. Kristin Graham: ⁓ my gosh, I it's just like hold my root beer. yeah, every damn day is my non-technical answer for short. When you are wired in the creative fashion that I think a lot of a lot of careers are who are doing storytelling in some form or fashion, ⁓ it is that that dopamine ⁓ of telling the stories and finding the the right hook and It is ⁓ what I ⁓ what I've come to learn is like our zone of genius. The things that come easy to us we overindulge in because I I was listening to one of your other guests, it was like, I can go nine hours and not and just realize I haven't been out of my chair. When you give someone who is who is wired like us the space to play, it becomes that hyper focus. It's it's the zone, but the zone needs A hall monitor because it's like you still need to hydrate, you still need to eat. It is a performance sport. So what's interesting when people look at corporate careers, they don't see it the same as a professional athlete, right? And I always try to encourage people these days as they're coming into careers of like, when are you gonna elevate yourself to the majors? Because in the majors, you get nutritionists, you get massage therapists, you get coaches, you get rest periods, you you ice thing, but corporate just says keep going until you fall down. Kristen Sweeney: Ha. Kristin Graham: And I think we need to change into mental athletes and come back and be like, you will get more out of me. It's Stephen Covey's sharpen the saw principle. Of I think we are gonna start going back to more analog thinking of, and that's that's where I came up with my one of my cornerstones is fewer things better, slow productivity and the elements of what is sustainable physiologically. And the the online space, the career space. says everything is possible and there's no there's no retention to it. So what I found when I was already carrying along neuroscience with me is that I was able to influence the the favorite word of our industry through science and data in a way that my instinct and ⁓ credibility couldn't get far enough. So when I could go to the executives or to the IT team and be like, you know, that's, you know, research actually says people stop processing after 111 words. So in order for your thing to be most effective, we're gonna need to edit it to this. ⁓ I once worked with an executive early on who said the data will set you free. And for me, the nerdy neuroscience throws a legitimacy on top of All of our fantastic skills in a different way. And it's they're both true. But it's being able to say, hey, ⁓ decision fatigue, attention, retention, all of these things, and burnout, gosh, burnout, it's not sustainable. Here's what the science says. So here are some alternatives. That has adjusted so much different than the just go and tell you collapse. But But it's a process. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, yeah. I I I love that. And I I appreciate your validation of both sort of experience and skills and alongside the data, right? But recognizing that sometimes data is the thing that sends maybe certain kind of personalities or folks in certain kind of positions ⁓ over and gives them that validation and ⁓ that confirmation. I definitely believe that our intu that intuition is a Kristin Graham: Yes. Kristen Sweeney: different way of processing lots and lots and lots of data that our brain's taking in, which you could probably validate for me. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ but getting that stat sometimes is the the thing that really can, you know, push something into the into a place that gives other people confidence, which is ultimately what's happening when they're uncertain or waffling or, you know. Kristin Graham: Yes. Yes. Abs it's it's very true. It's just it's data processing. Yeah. Yes. Well, I think anytime that there's change, people need a a touch point to validate changing. So that's where metrics and research or science can help people by just putting a a a little mile marker in the ground so that they can say, Yes, it's it's a journey and we're going that way. It doesn't quite yet exist, but keep going. I think that's important. In addition to the people who were influenced by all of the metrics and that, there's also watching what burnout does by those ahead of you. So I'll label this under cautionary tales. And I was only a year into my dot-com life. And not only did I get to do communications, I did it in the travel industry. I was working at Expedia Inc., the portfolio company that owned all so many travels. Those were my two passions put together. I was just like, I was in it was Charlie and then Chocolate Factory. And it was about a year in and I went to talk to the then president of Expedia, I think North America. And they had just announced his big promotion to something additionally big. And I walked in and and I said, Hey, before we get started, congratulations. And he was sitting at his table, he was looking out the window, he's Yeah, thanks. And it was the afternoon, and I thought maybe he was tired. And I was, I don't even know why, because we weren't that close at the time. But I just said, Are you not excited? I wouldn't have normally asked something like that. And he looked back over at me and he said, The thing is, this is a cake eating contest. And the reward for winning is more cake. And he went, looked back out the window again, and he said, I'm sick of the fucking cake. That struck me to my core as a young, ambitious, early 30s climber. I wanted nothing more to be on the executive path and seeing somebody on it who had the vulnerability to say it ain't all as cracked up to be. When I got there, I made sure to be transparent about the trade-offs. Yes, it is delicious. In a lot of ways. And I was always intentional to say, I have an at-home partner and I've been able to do this. I haven't been able to sleep six hours in two weeks. Because this whole glossing over, filtering, hashtagging, Instagramming, everything is a disservice. It's it's hard. Pick your hard. It's hard anywhere that we're doing it. But to pretend that it's not hard, that's not real life. So if that serves of anything, use it or don't use it. But it was a turning point for me to not chase blindly towards the the brass ring. There's ⁓ because the more you get, the less you're allowed to complain. And that's not human either. It's definitely not human. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, definitely. Sure. Kristin Graham: So yeah, privilege has a price. Everything has a price. It's just pick your hard. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. I ⁓ heard the phrase I I don't know who it's attributed to, but ⁓ like you can have it all, just not all at the same time, right? So Kristin Graham: ⁓ I I think that's tr I well, yeah. I mean you could Yeah. Kristen Sweeney: This reminds me of the trade offs, right? Of like there's there are Yeah, that I I can, you know, certainly think for myself. Like I have a lot of privileges, ability to make my own schedule. ⁓ I have young kids, so I get to choose times when I'm able to be there and take them to their activities. And sometimes that means I work at unideal hours and sometimes it means that my business doesn't grow as fast as it could if I were able to put in ten hour days and you know, so yeah, seasons and And and those trade-offs at least at certain moments. I think it it's it's important to at least acknowledge. And I think one of the themes that comes up for me ⁓ around your work is that when you have that moment of acknowledgement and self-recognition, you can go, That's why I feel this way. That's why I'm behaving this way. That's what's going on. Instead of what is wrong with me that I don't do better, that I can't do more. to it's just a totally different reframe. And maybe nothing about the circumstances changes except the way you view yourself within them, which is really powerful. Kristin Graham: Yes, thank you. Thank you. Yes. Well, and yes to all of that and the stories that we accept from others. So that that's kind of my point. I think that the human brain and the human body can sustain really great effort for a short amount of times. Yeah, so maybe you can have it all, but like for two hours on Tuesday. But but then at the other side, like it's life is supposed to go up and down, and so is our energy, and so is all of the things. There is there is no Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Kristin Graham: reality where it can always be up there and you can always be gracious, gracious, and happy all the time. And what are we in such a rush for? We're we want everything and we want it faster, but then we get there and nobody pauses to enjoy the life they work so hard for. And that's ⁓ I think that's the real shame. Yes. Yes, segue us. Kristen Sweeney: It's a perfect segue for us, actually. I'm gonna segue us into our one big idea. So this is a a chance to get into the details of one insight or experience that's impacted how you communicate. So we've heard you mention fewer things better, slow productivity. ⁓ the big idea we want to explore here is kind of doing less, pausing more. So Kristin Graham: ⁓ Kristen Sweeney: Where do you wanna start us with this concept? I know there was a a term, ⁓ a specific word that maybe's a good good jumping off point. Kristin Graham: There is. Thank you. Yes, I love me some words and I collect them and it was probably within the last decade I discovered this word discovered for me. It's ⁓ And it's actually a Hebrew word, but it has its origins. It has some musical components. It's a a lengthy intentional pause. ⁓ And is ⁓ A lot of life within that space. It's it's giving and receiving. So think of it from a musical perspective when you you come to that crescendo and then the music just kind of holds and holds it up in there. And you've seen that with performances and all sorts of beautiful things where you get that beat to savor. That is what selah represents and how I've incorporated it into all of the of what we're doing. ⁓ One of the most elements of who we are, even with all the automation and technology, we can go faster, but can we savor? That's not something my AI companions, and I have them, can really do. It's those moments where you have that belly laugh with somebody and you just look across and you lock eyes, and you have that moment. So selah ⁓ its own of being in the life ⁓ in the and now. From a neuroscience perspective, as I put these worlds together and they they wove together, I've also come to respect how it can signal processing. When I was in journalism school, one of our professors said, after every question, when somebody answers, hold the beat. Take three long beats. And it does two things. It lets the words land. And it also lets people step in with other thoughts that came to them as they were speaking. So that sela, whether it's our conversations or just our moments, also is a generous signal that we can give to somebody else that says. I'm receiving that. I'm hearing you. It also from neurodivergence, not everybody is ready to popcorn the way you and I clearly could do for hours at a time. And watching ⁓ my son and others be like, let me think about that. It is, it really becomes this pause, the Sela is so strategically kind and effective. It's also a gift that we don't have a lot of right now, and that is being heard. Being seen, yes, but just a pause for people to let what you did or said or experienced just let it land. And that that's something that we could use more of. Kristen Sweeney: I love that. I love the idea of it. ⁓ I actually think of myself as yes, I love this kind of banter. But there are times when I know that there's an idea kind of taking shape inside my brain, and I do the kind of I start the phrase and then I look off and I can feel it. And Kristin Graham: Yes. Kristen Sweeney: For better or for worse, since having kids since being pregnant and having kids, it's harder and it takes a little longer. But I can like it's almost like I can feel something happening in there, like to bring what's in here out. ⁓ and it does. It takes time. Actual time that you can't really shortcut. Kristin Graham: ⁓ girl, yes. Let me let me give you a brain snack on that one. ⁓ when your brain is doing that, it is so natural. This is where the brainstorming came from, is the immediate reactions to things are our first drafts. A component of our brain is called the default mode network. And one of the things I have learned now in doing this work is when I'm getting that stuck or just can't reach for it, I will go out. I'll walk the dog, I'll do something tactical. Because what happens is that. Pause allows the next layer of thinking. It's pattern recognition. It's a lot of elements. you let your brain have recess, it will come back to you with phenomenal things that aren't at the ready. Because brain goes into skimming mode. It's always processing information. So it's going to give you the fastest reaction. ⁓ But you want the juicy, if you want the good stuff, have the pause. ⁓ And brain will trust you to bring out its really good stuff. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, I love that. Do you have any other examples of where this pause might show up? ⁓ whether it's in conversation, in someone kind of working on their own ideas, ⁓ developing, you know, maybe more a presentation or preparing for a kind of a performance. Like how can how can we utilize the pause strategically, I guess. Kristin Graham: Yeah. Well, I'll give you a biological example and then ⁓ a more communications-oriented one. So biologically, one of the because everybody wants a biohack these days, right? They're gonna go do a cold plunge, they're gonna do all this stuff. one of the single best things that you can do for your brain, for your burnout, and for your focus is hydration. And it's so like my mama told me to drink more water, type obvious, but when you look at the science, if Even a 1% drop in our hydration during the day will cognitively take us down four to five percent. And we are running too fast back to what you said earlier to be like, I can't even go to the kitchen or I'll just get more coffee. And hydr hydration can come in different forms. It's not just the bottle of water, but your biohack is literally right in front of us. If you ever are hitting that two, three o'clock slump, it's in part hydration. It's one of the fastest ways. And they've even done research on students who have had a 16-ounce glass of water before an exam and those who haven't. There is a lot that's obvious that we are just running too far past. So that's one thing that even taking a pause to hydrate really is sh right? Okay. Okay. So that's another like neurological thing. Modeling, mirroring is a neuro. Kristen Sweeney: Thinking about how I don't have a glass of water here right now. Kristin Graham: Pause. If you want to do anything, yawn or drink water. And people biologically want to react to that. You'll start getting thirsty. Even people listening right now are like, I am a little parched. So that's one of the things. From a communication and from another pausing perspective, when we are speaking in any form, even in a meeting one-on-one, your adrenaline lifts, and a natural response to that is to speak faster. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Graham: It's just that's human biology, especially if you're nervous or any of the other things, which most of us are. So going slower than sounds normal to you. I mean, I want you to think about being underwater almost. When you're starting to say your sentences slower than feels natural, almost to the point where you think the other person's gonna be like, What's wrong with you? That is actually the right listening cadence for others. And I study this, I teach it, and yet I will just jazz hands, talk so fast because I'm excited or nervous. So that slower, not just a pause between sentences, when you start to speak more slowly, you'll actually see people nodding their heads more and the retention of what they're doing. So there is a lot of leverage in going slower. It's the one hack nobody's looking at. Kristen Sweeney: That's so interesting. I I certainly Can you ⁓ relate to being a fast talker and someone who, or you know, I've probably, you know, come into a meeting with an overstuffed agenda and I'm like, want to get through every point, let's keep moving, let's keep it going, you know. ⁓ but the idea that it's I just think about it as as in a lot of ways, I've actually become a huge fan of listening to podcasts, helpfully, ⁓ as I have one. Kristin Graham: Yeah. Yeah yeah Yes, yes. Kristen Sweeney: But I really love writing in some ways for the speed, the ability to not just skim, but even read quickly and also to easily go back and reread if I need to. And just the I I find it very easy to kind of move around within text. yeah, I I I don't know. I don't know. I don't know actually what my my point is. I'm just kind of sitting with the idea that slowing down really Kristin Graham: Mm. Kristen Sweeney: is gonna help you be better understood. And I guess when I think about great speeches, great TED talks, they say a lot fewer words, than you think they're going to. And yeah. Kristin Graham: Slower. It's it's so true. And one of the things for any anybody in communications and marketing, ⁓ the bottom line on top is the the biggest ribbon you can put on the gift of words to people. Because we are constantly processing, multitasking everything else. If you and it's true of any meeting, if you say we are meeting or today's conversation is, or the the two decisions that we need to leave with, tell people up front. You never get more of their attention than you do in the beginning of a conversation. So if you tell them right from the beginning, this is what we're doing. And you know, you and I we're storytellers. We're like, well, so then one time Snoopy was on an airplane. Like we go into the whole thing, or or you know, neurodivergent, like, let me tell you five other stories that I just thought of. But if you can start and say, and I also learned this with my son on the spectrum, is to say, we're gonna talk about this. And here's what I need you to, do I need to know, do, like, Kristen Sweeney: Mm. Ha ha ha. Kristin Graham: What's my role in this? So the bottom line on top, because there are those studies that say the attention spans drop so quickly, both from a number of words and a number of minutes, and the retention, people aren't gonna be able to hold more than three key points. But storytellers, we are the most generous people. We're like the buffet of words. Like, come on in, you want some salad? I've got some, don't forget there's pudding. Like we we just won't want to give you everything. People can't digest it. So bottom line on top. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Kristin Graham: feels so mechanical and yet it's one of the best things for people to recall or to respond. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, yeah, that's great. ⁓ you talked about attention and attention spans and certainly, you know, marketing and comms, this is top of mind. You hear all the terrible stats about attention spans being only seconds long. ⁓ and yet I think there's also a great many people I speak with, including, you know, in our in our industry and otherwise, who that they don't want that to be. Kristin Graham: Yes. ⁓ Kristen Sweeney: them right they want the ability to pay attention and sustain focus. any guidance on we can call them hacks or they can be difficult easy, easy to hear and difficult to execute tips ⁓ on how to sort of improve or retain the ability to pay attention to something. Kristin Graham: This won't be a surprise to anyone, but kind of back to our obvious. ⁓ when you are sharing information with anybody, there it is being absorbed by two parts of the brain, right? Different processing centers when you are factually giving moving information from here to there. Stories light up four parts of the brain. Everything from the amygdala to the ⁓ prefrontal cortex. So a story is how we attach. Context to the data. So I could have at any point said, I decided to study ⁓ neurobiology because of the effects on communication. When I told you it was related to my son, you then had a connection to it. But not just in the moment, it really is impactful for recall. If you've ever been with a big, you're you're at a conference, you're coming out of something, and they're like, Do you remember what Kristen you said? And you're like, which one was Kristen? ⁓ that one. W when you when you dip into the story. So that element, not too many, right? But it's the it's the colors on an otherwise white piece of paper. And it goes back to neurobiology. So that is something that we're already naturally gifted at. Select them strategically, but the stories activate more of the brain. ⁓ same with infographics. Infographics and visuals. The brain can process Kristen Sweeney: Love it. Hmm. Okay. All right. Kristin Graham: visuals sixty thousand times faster than reading and so use them strategically within that but it is a snapshot for the brain versus a transcript. Kristen Sweeney: Strength. Interesting. Last question on this concept of Selah and the pause. ⁓ maybe it's my Midwestern roots, but I know I am someone who likes to fill a silence. so what how can we think about taking that pause for ourselves, giving that pause to others when it feels in some sort of social context like Kristin Graham: Yes. Kristen Sweeney: awkward or uncomfortable, even painful, maybe, right, in certain situations to take that break. what what can kind of help push through that and and take the pause anyway? Kristin Graham: Well, it's it's interesting. I I recently did an episode about how to say no and which I mean it's not just having the words, right? It it's having a whole ecosystem to it. But I feel like when we allow ourselves to have verbal placeholders, and that's gonna allow us in those moments where we need the pause, more comfort in asking. And I'll give you an example. So one of the things with my son that a as he was in school and the rest of it. He was able to learn how to be an advocate to say, let me sit with that for a minute so I can catch up. Or can you give me the first couple of steps to what that looks like? And it was only through exploring his own brain that he did that. And so him having ⁓ cue cards is something I brought forward into exactly what you were just saying. And I think from ⁓ from a couple of perspectives, if you were able when there's a A pause or there's something that's not quite there. One of the most effective things that I've seen is to s is to pause and then say, say more about that, Kristen. You're doing a couple things. You're using their name, you're asking them if they're done, you're letting them see if there's any trailing thoughts, but it also is allowing you to be like, How am I feeling about that? Do I have any questions on that? And it is a natural Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristin Graham: А natural taking a breath moment that is both ⁓ courteous and strategic. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, I I I really like that. I think that's I can relate that to something similar to what I do when I'm interviewing ⁓ executives and subject matter experts. There was certainly so I would say that when I kind of started down this career path, I actually felt like my job was to be a mind reader. and Kristin Graham: Says every woman. Yes. Kristen Sweeney: There you go. ⁓ and that my job was just to know my clients so well and be able to just, you know, lean in and then pick it up. And once we had a relationship established, kind of get everything right always and understand it. ⁓ so over time I've learned to do a couple of things. One is to say, and this I use it often all over in my life, is can you just repeat that? So I don't even need you to say it differently. Just say it again. So I could just I'm not done taking it in. Just just say it again. Kristin Graham: Yes. Right. Yeah. Okay. Mm. Love it. Say it again. Ooh. Like it? Kristen Sweeney: You don't have to reshuffle or anything, just the best you can recreate it, go for it. ⁓ and the other is that idea of the open-ended tell me more about that, instead of needing like a really sophisticated sort of response that parlays their technical answer and you know jumps off from there. There's plenty of that in our conversations, but sometimes you know, being able to have the confidence and recognizing. We are collaborating and co-creating and that actually being a mind reader isn't my job has definitely helped me use phrases that are similar to that and just a little bit more like, ⁓ yeah, go on. Keep going. ⁓ Kristin Graham: Say more. Well, one other thing I would add to that, because I think it's very natural, especially in professional environments, to want to immediately sound ⁓ competent, is giving the grace and the respect to somebody to say, ⁓ Let me come back to you with a more thoughtful answer or solution. I wanna I wanna give some respect to the the problem or what you just said, but we forget to ask for time back to a pause. And I think people would have a great consideration of like, okay, especially if we're specific. Let me come back to you with that tomorrow. I wanna give some I wanna have a thoughtful response on your question. I think a lot of people would be like, Take all the time you need versus the let me just try to bullshit you right now. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah. And also being someone who actually closes that loop and delivers on that promise can really help you stand out because Kristin Graham: That's a hundred percent. Yes, here let me let me put a pin on that for you. Specificity is the differentiator. Let me come back to you tomorrow at 11. I'll be able to give you a more and then do it. But specificity, yes, don't leave things open-ended. Go the extra mile. It's never crowded. Kristen Sweeney: And then do it. Yeah. Love that. You are full of gems. ⁓ my gosh. I love that one. But still. ⁓ All right. I'm gonna shift us now. I want to make sure we have time for our lightning round segment. This is the last word where every guest gets to answer the same five questions. Kristen, are you ready? Kristin Graham: ⁓ girl, they're not mine. They're not mine. My gosh. Yeah. No, but let's do it anyway. Kristen Sweeney: Great. Question one, what is your favorite word to say out loud? Kristin Graham: ⁓ gosh, ⁓ gosh. I was thinking about this because I have a lot that I do say out loud, but the one that I love is delicious. Kristen Sweeney: Well, I think you I think we got one of those earlier today too. That's great. Kristin Graham: Delicious. Yeah, I think you did it, but it's like not not just saying it, right? But also the the connotation that goes with it. Kristen Sweeney: Is it I'm gonna try and pronounce this word, onomatopoetic? Kristin Graham: ⁓ my gosh, ⁓ my gosh, I can't believe you just said that because your next question to me is gonna be what? Kristen Sweeney: What's a word you know for reading, but you're no don't know how to pronounce it? Is it really? Kristin Graham: Kristen, I am not joking that I wrote down onomatopia. Kristen Sweeney: I really am a mind reader. Kristin Graham: Yes, you heard it here, folks. That's why she is worth it. That's exactly it. I can't well, I can believe it, of course. But I mean, only Kristen word nerds would but that, yes, is the yes, so delicious. It feel it feels like that. It feels like a mouthful. But then what's something you're always upright? ⁓ no, no, yes, and I love it. I feel seen. Kristen Sweeney: That's amazing. Yes, it is. Yeah. That's amazing. I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to jump on your answer. Amazing. All right. Well, let's do question three. What's one phrase or saying you wish could be retired for good? Kristin Graham: Gosh. ⁓ gosh. I as you said, I spent a couple of decades in corporate and I've said all of these, but I think it's circle back. Well circle back. Well or it's kind of like o okay, so we're not we're not talking about it right now. And and it that's I think it's close cousin is well let's just put that in the parking lot. It's like Kristen Sweeney: Because no one ever does, in accordance with our If you really can put it in the parking lot and forget about it. But if you really can't, you know, that's the thing I think with circle back, et cetera, is like so often, circle back to me feels like it's more like I don't know, and it's too hard for me to think about it and make that decision. So I'm actually just putting it off. If there's a good reason for it, or it's really not a priority, that's fine. But so often someone else's work is hinging on. making that decision. And so now they're in this weird in between of so is it an emergency? Is this my priority? Is my time yeah yeah ⁓ Kristin Graham: Are we circling? Is it an oval? Yeah, well and for me, my reaction is, ⁓ please, we're not having another meeting, are we? We're not circling back in a meeting. So yeah. Kristen Sweeney: Right. Right. What's a communication practice or principle that's non-negotiable for you? Kristin Graham: Well I think there's this tendency to and I love mesymetrics, but there's tendency the the whole public reaction to things like Validating that that actually meant something because of how many views it had, that does not compute. So I think removing vanity metrics from our actual value helps. It's just This whole popularity race has nothing to do with impact. And yeah. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. That's a great way of putting it. They don't they don't correlate in the way that yeah, yes. Yeah, absolutely. Question five, what's the last thing you read, heard, or watched that really stuck with you? Kristin Graham: Does not equal sign. Yeah. Okay, I did a podcast episode a couple weeks ago, and I love me some quotes. So the podcast usually I dust off my bevy of quotes or go to my post-it notes. ⁓ and I tried to find the attribution for it, but it w it was this quote. It says, You don't have to be a good girl to be a good person. And that one cuts through everything that we just talked about and the overachieving and the burnout and redefining that we are not that buffet anymore. And whether it's saying no or unsubscribing from people, the the better I do, the less people are gonna like me because I'm no longer serving them. So not going with the social conditioning or the or the norms of Just be a team player, be the bigger person. Like no, unsubscribe. Kristen Sweeney: subscribe from that. There's a lot. That's gonna be our follow-up podcast episode. There's a lot to ⁓ to back there. Kristen, thank you so much for joining me today. If our listeners want to learn more about you, where can they go to find you? Kristin Graham: Unsubscribe. I am on YouTube under Fewer Things Better. I'm kind of nerding out over there. I'm on LinkedIn for anybody who wants to circle back and find me there. I've got a whole parking lot. But you know what? Here, I'm gonna try something revolutionary. You could just reach out. It's Kristen at unlock the brain.com. And I've said this for the last decade, and sometimes people actually do. So I R L in real life, baby. Kristen Sweeney: Love it. Thank you so much for joining me today. Really appreciate it. Kristin Graham: Thank you, Christian word friend.