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Dungeon Crawler Board Game Draft! · Operation Game Night

0:15
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Operation Game Night Podcast.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: We're back, and we're better than ever.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: And we're joined by our good friend Vic from Games EMOS Games.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Yo Games EMoss podcast, not games.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wish.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Imagine if I had a company like that.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Games and games and games.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Games and games and more.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: And moss games and more.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: And you know, we'll throw in coffee there, I guess, or something.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: That's the moss.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: That's the moss part right there.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Have you done an episode about coffee yet?
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Are you are you like a third-wave coffee guy?
0:46
SPEAKER_01: So I am actually not a coffee guy, actually.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: I oh don't I don't like coffee at all.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: I it puts me to sleep.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I'm more of a tea guy.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: So okay, you know what?
0:55
SPEAKER_01: We'll change it.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: I I I retract my coffee statement and go uh I replace it with tea.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: So I'm coffee and tea, you know.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean uh games and tea.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Games and teas.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: So games and tea.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Games and tea.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Games ET, you know.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: We like to spill the tea, spill the tea on our latest and greatest games, you know.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: So also thank you guys.
1:14
SPEAKER_03: Also joining us is Clay.
1:15
SPEAKER_03: How you doing, Clay?
1:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just Clay here.
1:18
SPEAKER_03: There's no emos.
1:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm just Clay, and I have no coffee or tea, but I am happy to be here with Vic.
1:26
SPEAKER_03: I missed the last time you guys collaborated, and I listened to that episode and just felt like a little fly on the wall, just feeling sad and lonely that you guys talked about Twilight Imperium without me.
1:37
SPEAKER_03: So I'm here.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm unprepared, but I'm ready to do this.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: This is basically an improv show anymore.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's go.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: What else is this show if not improv?
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Like what we are just living by the seat of our pants and making things up as we go along.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: But today we do have a board game draft, very special board game draft where we are talking dungeon crawlers.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Because I have been reading a whole bunch of Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Deniman.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've heard of this.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: It's a book, it's a book, it's a great audiobook.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've been listening to them all on the audiobook.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: We'll get into that in an OTF.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Right now, I want to hear you guys create a Dungeon Crawler board game.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: So we're going head to head.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: If you have not listened to one of our episodes before where we do a board game draft, I'm gonna pull up this shoddy XL spreadsheet and do things on the on the side as they talk.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, but basically it'll be Klee versus Vic.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: And the draft goes through 10 rounds, and our contestants start with$30 each.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Each round has a different topic, like what combat system, what theme are they applying, what player count is it best at?
2:54
SPEAKER_00: What is the what are the components look like?
2:57
SPEAKER_00: And they're going to draft these different aspects of a board game to make the best board game that they can.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And maybe at the end I'll pick one that I like better.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: And so the options during each round range from$1 to$5.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: $1 is usually the least desirable,$5 is typically the most desirable.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: And as they spend their money, as we go through the rounds of the draft, they will spend their money, and then the following round, the person with the least amount of money gets to go first.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: So if you swing big on one round, that following round, you can kind of seize initiative if you think that there's something else there.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: But you know, if you continue to spend those high dollar value items, you're gonna run out of money fast, and then you might not be able to get anything the later rounds, and those are kind of washes.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: So you ended up with an incomplete game, and probably not one that I'm going to pick or that the people will pick because we're gonna put something out that says, Hey, tell us which game you would prefer.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: So, gentlemen, are we ready?
3:56
SPEAKER_00: How do we feel about dungeon crawler games?
3:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I love dungeon crawler games.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Half my shelf is Dungeon Crawler games, so okay.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh I am a big uh dungeon crawlers.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Would you say that dungeon crawler games are more merit trash type of games?
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, oh yeah, for sure.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: So those those are my those are my niches, you know, nemesis.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Love love love me some nemesis, bro.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh yeah, I love me some dungeon crawlers all day.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Give me dungeon crawler over euro anytime, please.
4:24
SPEAKER_03: I it's not really my wheelhouse, so I feel a little outgunned here by Vic.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: But I think you got the experience you got the experience with the these grass.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm going in here blind.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm ready to run, though.
4:37
SPEAKER_03: I've only played one dungeon crawler, and that's dungeons and dragons.
4:40
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, the ultimate played nemesis.
4:45
SPEAKER_03: We played nemesis once.
4:47
SPEAKER_03: I just yep.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: Betrayal betrayal dungeon crawler.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: No, I would also put betrayal at House on the Hill on that list.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Interesting zombicide, but zombie side zombicide.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: I would put that as a dungeon crawler crawler as well.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay, there you go.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: All right, all right.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: Are we ready?
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Are we ready to jump in?
5:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you each start with$30.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh, first round is what sort of combat system you want in your dungeon crawler.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: We're jumping right in with something that is pivotal to the game design itself.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Vic, I think I'm gonna let you go first.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: So I don't have a coin to flip, and you're our guests.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: So for you have rolling compare, that dice attack and defense type mechanism.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: For two dollars, we have dice pool building.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've got like magic dice or defense dice or attack dice, and you're kind of building this pool that you can pick and choose from to attack.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh for three dollars, we have card modifier deck, like Bloomhaven, where you have like, I don't know, these different status effects that you can apply apply to the combat.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: For four dollars, we have dice and ability card combos, and for five dollars we have multi-use, multi-ability cards, uh, maybe like um unmatched or something like that.
6:01
unknown: Okay.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking?
6:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh well, I am a big sucker for dice, so I really like dice building.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, because just something about you know, building your dice, that two dollar dice pool building is calling my name, but also that dice and card ability combo is really nice.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, to be able to combine it.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a big fan when it comes to card ability, card abilities, because it's just they're just more reading, you know.
6:28
SPEAKER_03: Yes, and I agree with Vic for once.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: And I just want to throw some dice, you know.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: I just want to throw some dice, and the only ring I want to do is what what the rules says, and then that's it.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: We go into it.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I am gonna go with the two dollars of dice pool building.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, I love that.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I think there's nothing more satisfactory of on your turn, you build some you build this like little pool of dice and you get to chuck.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, in especially if you're like starting off with like three dice, and then as the game progresses, you your dice pool gets bigger and you get to use more combos with it.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm I I'm a big sucker for that, so I'll go with definitely big dice pool building for that one for two dollars, please.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: I screwed that up.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: I did not change that one.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: All right, here we go.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh Clay, what are you thinking?
7:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah for your combat system.
7:11
SPEAKER_03: I too treasure a good dice roll for combat.
7:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I'm not gonna go so far as to add some ability cards because, like Vic alluded to, I'm a little averse to reading a bunch of stuff when I'm playing.
7:25
SPEAKER_03: And if I'm in the heat of the moment in a dungeon crawler, last thing I want to do is rifle through cards and try and find abilities.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: I just want to grab a fistful of dice or even just one very special die and give it a roll and see what happens.
7:39
SPEAKER_03: I like simple combat mechanisms, so I'm going with just the one, just roll and compare.
7:45
SPEAKER_03: I want to wow, roll an attack, yeah, monster rolls the defense, and we see who wins.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, beautiful.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice, okay.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh round two, dungeon layout.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Now, Vic, you spent the most amount of money in round one with a whopping two dollars.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: So you get to pick how your dungeon is laid out.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: For one dollar, you have fixed map slash board, it's the same every time, nothing changes.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, for two dollars, you have a random room deck or tiles, kind of like your betrayal house on the hill where you're building it out as you go along.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Oof.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: For three dollars, you have module tile exploration.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: So you can you know what the tiles look like and you build it out ahead of time, but you can mix and match them however you want.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, for four dollars, you have a branching dungeon map where you can choose your pathways through the dungeon, and then for five dollars, you have a fully procedural procedural dungeon generation.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's an app assisted.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of what I mean by like procedural when I talk about that here.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: It's app assisted, it's AI assisted.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: It's something that tells you like here's a scenario.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: So uh, what are you thinking for your dungeon layout?
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Um oh geez.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, is that branching dungeon map?
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Is that um randomized whenever we're choosing uh path, or is it kind of generated?
9:07
SPEAKER_01: We kind of know where we're going.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Because that one, I don't know.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: Because that one's gonna make or break.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: If that one's a random one, randomized.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: I really like the randomicity of it.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Um I do like also the random deck tiles, but if I like the being able to choose the path you get to go to and then finding out what happens in that path um more than just random whatever you pull out of a deck.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm leaning more towards that because I really like the the choice of what we're doing.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Not that you can't choose with random decks and tiles, like in betrayal, but this is kind of gives you more of a sense of where you're going, especially when it's the dungeon crawler, because you're we're achieving a goal, trying to get somewhere, and you have to make a choice of that.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go with that four dollars of branching dungeon map.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm okay.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: I think we could get some good moral storyline when it comes to that nice aspect for sure.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: Four bucks on that one.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: All right, nice.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: And all of these are made up anyways, so like you can make it whatever you want.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: If you say that the branching path is, you know, something that you choose and it leads you down a different pathway versus randomized, like, sure, go for it.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: This is all made up and the points don't matter.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: So beautiful.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: Clayton, what are you thinking for your dungeon layout?
10:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, Vic and I are on the same wavelength here again because I like random tile flips, deciding to go somewhere and then just hoping and seeing what's there.
10:29
SPEAKER_03: I think that's a lot of fun.
10:31
SPEAKER_03: I like push your luck games, I like that randomness.
10:33
SPEAKER_03: So I'm going with the two dollar random room deck and tiles.
10:37
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
10:38
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: Nice, nice.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Boom.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: Bang.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: So now entering round three.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Vic, you have$24 remaining.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Clay has$27.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh for round three, we have the initiative system.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: You're entering combat.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: How do you determine who attacks in what order?
10:58
SPEAKER_00: So for$1, you have turn order.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: For$2, we have a speed stat for your character that determines your order.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: For three, you have roll for initiative, like Dungeons and Dragons.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: For four, you have an initiative track that players can manipulate.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: So maybe you do something great the next or the turn before it puts you in route in line to go first the next time.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then for five dollars, we have simultaneous action selection with initiative numbers.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Let's say you like play cards simultaneously, and each and those have different initiatives on them that kind of procedurally generate uh or you know, tell you how to um deal with the initiative.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh who's going first?
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Who's going first on this one?
11:45
SPEAKER_01: Vic, you have$24 remaining.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: So you are first.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Oh geez, man.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: Um that that speed stats is calling my name on that one.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, because that's very, very betrayalisk, and I really enjoyed that where it's like your speed determines it.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: And that also can change because, like in betrayal, your speed can go lower, so then your initiative goes lower.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, so there's always changing.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: Um I am a big sucker again with dice rolling, and I really like that initiative roll because it always has that randomness of it gets to go first, and you get to think more because maybe the person that we need to go first rolled low, so now we got to readjust our strategy and figure out how it is.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking this dungeon crawler of mine is gonna be a cooperative kind of game.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: So thinking okay.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm gonna go with initiative dice roll because I really like the randomness output and I like to keep my players under toes.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: So you know if the suckiest player or the least stat player is you know going first, and then we gotta we gotta switch stats up and get in with some very nasty results or some triumphant results that come out and memories are made.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: So okay, so an initiative dice roll for three dollars.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh Clay, what are you thinking for your initiative system?
12:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I don't know how this this plays out in a dungeon crawler, especially if it's a co-op and everybody's selecting an action card that has an initiative value on it simultaneously.
13:08
SPEAKER_03: But that's one of my favorite mechanisms in games when people select things simultaneously.
13:14
SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna spend big on this one.
13:16
SPEAKER_03: I'm going five.
13:17
SPEAKER_03: Oh, and we're we're randomly, well, not randomly, but we're selecting a card simultaneously, and that's gonna determine our initiative.
13:25
SPEAKER_03: Nice.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, okay.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: We're going on to round number four, which is enemy activation system.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: So players all go in whatever order is generated by the initiative system.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: Now it's the enemy's turn.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: So, how do they take their priorities amongst the players to attack, to defend, to do whatever they need to do?
13:47
SPEAKER_00: So, Vic, you have$21 remaining.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Clay has$22.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: So Vic, you will pick first out of these options for$1.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Move towards the nearest hero for$2.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Enemy type behavior chart.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: So if you have like a ranged versus a healer versus a brute versus a whatever it is, they will behave differently.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh for three dollars, enemy action deck.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: So you flip a card and it'll tell you how they move and how they behave.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh for$4, enemy priority system, uh, not based on their enemy type, but what character they are actively attacking, they will behave differently for the different, you know, clap character classes.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then for$5, you have a scenario-driven AI script, kind of like return to Dark Tower or something, where it tells you how the enemy will react to uh what you've done.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking for enemy activation system?
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Hot take is I don't really have a preference when it comes to enemy activations.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm more player-based, the enemies, whatever the game gives me, I'm whatever with.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: So I'm actually going to go with the classic uh no one dollar move towards the nearest hero.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think if that is a great strategy when it comes to when you're playing these games, you can um, you know, prioritize.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay, if we move here, this guy's gonna come closest to me.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: So we should probably like strategize on where we're gonna place our characters, uh, do our actions, and then kind of move out so we can figure out, you know, we can manipulate the the enemy movement and maybe a little cheese it a little bit and funnel them in.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just gonna go with that one dollar one, move towards near zero.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Don't need to get more complex than that, just keep it simple, move close to zero, and that's it for the enemy turn for sure.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: I like it.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Clay, what are you thinking?
15:37
SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking I'm gonna go with the enemy action deck.
15:41
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to have to do any algorithms in my head or any complex permutations.
15:48
SPEAKER_03: So I just want to flip a card, let the card tell me exactly what happens, and then I can move on with the fun part of the game.
15:55
SPEAKER_03: Uh I the my biggest hang up on a lot of these dungeon crawler type games is doing the enemy manipulations and trying to figure out what happens in between your turns.
16:05
SPEAKER_03: That tedious stuff gets on my nerves.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: So I think just a real clean action deck says this enemy moves wherever and does this much damage is is sufficient for me.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: Keep it simple.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh so clay, with that selection, you have seized initiative for this next round.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh you have$19 remaining.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Vic, you have$20.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and for round five, how does the loot and equipment system work?
16:36
SPEAKER_00: So for one dollar, you get gold based on your encounters.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: For two dollars, random treasure deck for three dollars.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: You have equipment slots like weapons, art armor, items for four dollars.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: You have a crafting system where you can combine items or create items, and for five dollars, you have a tiered loot with these high-ranking legendary items that have special abilities.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: I know that these are not like mutually exclusive, and a lot of games combine these, but what are what are the ones what's the one that you want to guarantee is in your game?
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Clay, over to you.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
17:12
SPEAKER_03: Can't say it enough, but I love the randomness.
17:15
SPEAKER_03: I'm going with a random treasure deck.
17:17
SPEAKER_03: I want to find out when I open the treasure chest what's in there.
17:21
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to know beforehand.
17:23
SPEAKER_03: I want to, you know, get in the fight, put it all on the line, and then flip over the treasure deck and be like, oh, it was just a sock.
17:31
SPEAKER_03: And then and then have to deal with that.
17:34
SPEAKER_03: So that's the type of stuff that's memorable to me, is when things don't go the way you're thinking, or on the other hand, they'd go a lot better than you were thinking.
17:43
SPEAKER_03: And you're like, holy cow, I just uncovered this super awesome piece of treasure uh just because I beat this one little goblin up.
17:50
SPEAKER_03: And uh, yeah, that's that's fun for me.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: So I'm going with a random treasure deck.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: If if a sock is good enough to free Dobby, it's good enough for our adventure.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there you go.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh Vic, what are you thinking for your loot and equipment equipment system?
18:05
SPEAKER_01: No question that I'm going straight three dollars equipment slots.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: I love RPG elements where you get to equip your hero with things.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: I think it ties in with the tiered loot system as well.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: So you can get yourself a legendary item, a legendary sword, and equip it on your hero.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: And I mean it goes hand in hand with RPGs and dungeon crawler.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: So give me that, give me that all day.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: I love love that role-playing where I get to equip my character with some sick armor and stuff.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'll go with that for sure.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Great.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so you guys are tied, so clay is gonna keep initiative for this round.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: You're both tied at$17.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: You got three five rounds remaining, and for round six, it is the camp campaign structure of your game.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: So for one dollar, you have standalone scenarios, for two dollars, you have linked scenario progression for three dollars.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: You have a branching campaign map.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: For four dollars, you have a persistent world with persistent choices, and for five dollars, you have a legacy campaign system with like stickers and unlocks and things that you uh gain throughout the campaign.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Clay, what are you thinking?
19:15
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm thinking you really baited me into uh spending five dollars here because you know how hot I am for stickers after playing Cozy Stickerville.
19:25
SPEAKER_03: So that's really that's really turning me on right now is okay the stickers in the legacy campaign.
19:33
SPEAKER_03: That was gonna be my choice.
19:34
SPEAKER_03: That was gonna be my choice.
19:35
SPEAKER_03: Oh, well then I'm definitely I'll take stickers for five.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I love Mia Legacy legacy game, hands down.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you're a big fan of like the uh betrayal legacy, aren't you?
19:48
SPEAKER_01: Betrayal legacy, pandemic legacy, anything that has the legacy camping on, except Seafall Legacy.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: That game was trash, but that's for another that's that's another topic.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but anything that's what's your concession choice?
19:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go four dollars.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Persistent world with choices.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think that's the next that's be my second choices.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, anything that uh, you know, would your choices affect the world?
20:05
SPEAKER_01: I love that for sure.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: I love that in my video games and I love it in my board games.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: So it's basically just as good.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh Clay, still with you.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Round seven.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, how does your character progression work?
20:17
SPEAKER_00: Do you have fixed characters that don't progress?
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh for one dollar, for two dollars, you have a level up stat boost where your stats go up, nothing else changes.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh, for three dollars, you have ability card upgrades.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you put them in nice little sleeves that have upgrades on them.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Little uh card crafting.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes, beta four dollars, uh branching skill trees.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: So you are moving up the skill trees as you go along that uh develop your different categories of skills, and then for five dollars, you have unlock unlockable classes slash jobs during the campaign.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
20:55
SPEAKER_03: I am staying true to myself, and I am going with level up stat boosts.
21:04
SPEAKER_03: I think fixed characters would be pretty freaking lame, especially over the course of a legacy campaign.
21:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but also I do not like I said before, I will beat this horse over again.
21:17
SPEAKER_03: I do not like keeping track of card abilities, and I refuse to do so.
21:22
SPEAKER_03: So I am just gonna have stats that get better and better, and this will make me happy.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: I like it.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: I thought maybe you would go for the card crafting, but uh Vic, over to you.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
21:33
SPEAKER_00: Character progression.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I'd really like that branching skill trees option, but now I'm just leaning.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: If I I feel like if I want that option, I'm just going straight into video game territory now.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm trying, I'm trying to keep it more board game ass.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to get complexity.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Leave that to the Skyrim, leave that to the other stuff.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh oh man.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: This is all right, this is gonna be a hot take one here for me, but I am actually gonna go fixed characters.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm going fixed characters.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Because I already have my equipment slots, so that is my level up level league up system.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: My characters stay the same, but my equipment improves my character, so it gives you my characters.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Vic came to play, he's playing the game.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: That was what he's picking in previous rounds, and he's he's building upon those choices.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: It's time to play the game right now.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Love that.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we are headed into the final three rounds.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: For round eight, we have dungeon events.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh Clay, you have ten dollars remaining.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Vic, you have twelve.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: So for your dungeon events, one dollar.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: No, none.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: None dungeon events.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Nothing special happens between dungeons.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: It's strictly combat-based or exploration.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh for two dollars, we have random trap token tokens that will trigger.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Man, that's an alliteration.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh for three dollars, we have event cards when entering the room that might change the combat, might change the scenario.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, for four dollars, we have narrative story events that um unfold during the dungeon.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: And then for five dollars, we have persistent dungeon modifiers.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: Maybe this round it has a buff for combat, or it has a boon for this, or a buff, you know, something like that.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Something that changes the way that you experience the dungeon as you go through.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: So, Clay, you have the least amount of money over to you for your dungeon events.
23:21
SPEAKER_03: I am I am torn here.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, I really locked myself into something big here with the legacy campaign.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: Uh, so I feel like I have to spend a little more than maybe I want to right now.
23:37
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I wanted to say none because ultimately I think I have enough random things happening in my version of a dungeon crawler that adding some random dungeon events would be uh would probably push it over the line if it's not there already.
23:54
SPEAKER_03: But I do think a good story through line in my legacy campaign would be nice.
24:00
SPEAKER_03: So I think a story event you read when you go into a new room or a new dungeon could help pull it all together, and it can be something you just forget then.
24:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to see that card again be gone.
24:11
SPEAKER_03: We read it, we get it, and it added some flavor.
24:15
SPEAKER_03: So I'll take the narrative story events, okay.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you killed me.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: That was the one I wanted.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: Vicky, you want to go first?
24:23
SPEAKER_03: Spend more money.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: I know, I know, but oh jeez, okay.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: All right, well, um, I don't I don't like the persistent dungeon modifiers one because it just I don't know.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go with the event cards when entering a room.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm going sticking with the betrayal kind of format where whenever you get to a room, there's an event in there, stuff's gonna happen, and you're gonna find out what happens in that one.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think you could tie in with your persistent world choices.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Maybe the card could say if you've made this choice before, then this happens.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: If not, this other happens.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: So I think it could it can get chained up with that choice before for sure.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay, last two rounds.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh Clay, you're running a little short on cash.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: You have six dollars.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Vic, you have nine dollars.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: And for round nine, we have the best at player count.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: This is a pretty standard one that we've done in our previous drafts.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so for one dollar, you have a solo, it's best at a solo playthrough.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh for two dollars, you have two players, three dollars are three players, four dollars is four players, and five dollars is five players plus.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: So, Clay, over to you.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking for best at?
25:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, eight player dungeon crawler, get it.
25:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no thanks.
25:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, I think two.
25:44
SPEAKER_03: I'll take two for two.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I I need to I need to save for the final round.
25:51
SPEAKER_03: I need to be up there for some of those things I see on the on the last round, provided Vic doesn't well.
25:58
SPEAKER_03: If he jumps me, then he can't afford it.
26:00
SPEAKER_03: So anyway, I think two's fine.
26:03
SPEAKER_03: I I generally don't like playing games with a lot of people because it just slows things down, and I hate when games take too long.
26:11
SPEAKER_03: So I'm happy with a nice tight two-player dungeon crawler.
26:16
SPEAKER_03: So I'll take that.
26:18
SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: Vic, what do you think of four player count?
26:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm going four players.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: I think every good game has a good four-player count game.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, five plus is just ridiculous.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, you should not there should not be games that are like five plus games unless you want to play for hours.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I think four players is a good solid game.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: You also have that leeway of playing with two or three players, so you have that extra extra buffer there, but four players will probably be able to play best of my game for sure.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Nice, good choice.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, final round is component production.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: This is something that's put on top, little uh, you know, genesse quoi for the game.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, so for one dollar you have your standard can cardboard standees.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh for two dollars, you have wooden pawns, maybe like the root little character cutouts, meeples.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh for three dollars, you have hero miniatures.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: For four dollars, you have a full set of miniatures for all the characters in your game.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: And then for five dollars, you have the big super giant deluxe uh miniatures for the bosses, and you get deluxe boards on top.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Clay, unfortunately, you are locked out of that choice because you only have four dollars left.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: So, Clay, how do you want to spend your last four dollars?
27:34
SPEAKER_03: You know, I feel like the popular thing in in board gaming these days is to you know, virtue signal about how you don't need miniatures in games, and just like, oh yeah, I'm perfectly happy with the cardboard standees.
27:47
SPEAKER_03: That's BS.
27:49
SPEAKER_03: Give me all the plastic that my four dollars can buy.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: That's my boy Clay right there.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: That's my boy Clay right there.
27:56
SPEAKER_03: I'll take the full miniature set.
27:57
SPEAKER_03: All right, well done.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, Vic.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: Can't take it with you.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go ahead and assume.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're walking away.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm walking away with give me that deluxe, give me those metal coins, give me those big old bosses, give me all the minis, all the plastic.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, yes, cool cardboard standings.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you want to be boring, if you want to get immersed into a dungeon crawler, come on, you gotta have minis.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: You can't just have little round little cardboard tokens that say this is the Democorgon or whatever.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: You gotta have the thing, you know.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: You gotta have something to represent the world.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Make me feel something.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes, please, please.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: So massive busts.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I need to feel it.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: I need to feel the intensity of what I'm playing with.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: All right, Cthulhu's coming after me.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: I need to know what's happening.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: The Cthulhu, the Cthulhu games do have excellent miniatures.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: They do for the most part.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you guys spent all your money.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Well done.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Ended up with zero dollars.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: So clay, you have a rolling compared attack and defense dice combat system.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: You've got random room deck tiles that you're drawing and placing.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: You've got a simultaneous action selection for combat initiative, you've got an enemy action deck that specifies what the enemies are going to do and how they will react.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: You've got random treasure deck, you've got a legacy campaign with stickers and unlocks, you've got level up stat boosts when your characters move through the dungeon.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: You've got narrative story events.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: You said like when they walk in a room, you flip a card, it might have a little bit of story text, and then you move move on.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: You've got best at two player counts, and you have a full miniature set.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Now I I know I should have said this right from the front, but I put this as a dungeon crawler game draft, but it doesn't have to be specific to a dungeon.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: So, Clay, build out this game for me.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: What are you envisioning?
29:54
SPEAKER_00: What sort of like enemies are you facing?
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about uh your game, flush it out a little bit for me.
30:02
SPEAKER_03: Um, I think we're gonna go with uh a theme that's just never been done before, and that is a nature theme.
30:12
SPEAKER_03: I think we're gonna be ants are popular.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: I did that last time.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: Let's go with where it's an ant exploring a colony dungeon, and then there's different bugs, and as you tunnel through your little ant colony, you know, maybe this big dung beetle comes out and you have this big dung beetle battle.
30:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, I am leaning into the nature themes, specifically ants, ants and bugs.
30:40
SPEAKER_03: I watched a bug's life the other night.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Is this like you think this is part of the same line?
30:47
SPEAKER_00: Like your civilization game that was bug themed, and now you have the dungeon crawler.
30:52
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I'm not very creative.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: He created the the bug's life, the board game.
30:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, hopper's the final battle.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: That big old nice miniature.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's right.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so Vic, you have a combat system that's based on a dice pool build.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: You've got a branching dungeon map where you can choose your own adventure, kind of walk your way through your dungeon.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: You need to choose the path that you go down.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: You've got initiative dice rolls for uh you know turn order.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: You've got enemies moving towards the nearest hero automatically between turns.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: You've got equipment slots where you can equip weapons, armors, items to your characters.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: You've got persistent world choices that will follow you through the dungeon.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: You've got fixed characters that pair with your weapons and armor and item slots.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: So they don't necessarily level up or anything, but you can equip them with things that make them better and stronger.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: You've got event cards when entering rooms.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, that was uh your dungeon events, and then you're best at four with a massive boss, deluxe boards.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: You've got all the plastic, you've got all the coins, you've got all the paraphernalia to make this game excellent.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: Flush it out for me.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking?
32:07
SPEAKER_00: What is your board game?
32:09
SPEAKER_01: So I am with Klay where I'm stuck on a certain thing.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, Klay was stuck with bugs.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: I am stuck, and I blame you, Travis.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: I am stuck on zombies.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we've we've been talking about Resident Evil, and I'm digging the whole zombie vibe.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: There's a plenty of zombie games here, so I'm going more towards uh story-driven zombie game.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: You're a squad of four entering set assigned on a mission, um, and you don't know what is happening with the world around you, but everything seems to be going chaos.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: So you're entering this laboratory and you're choosing, making your choices and figuring out what is happening.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Why was there a distress call?
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Why is your squad sent out here?
32:49
SPEAKER_01: And as the story goes, that's not all that it seems.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: And so uh keep your squad alive, and uh you have different types of zombies, different types of mutation creatures as you go deeper into the game, bosses, mini boss fights, events that happen throughout throughout the world, and your choices matter because it'll it'll dictate what kind of uh ending you might get at the end of the game, uh, you know, or who lives or who dies.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: So uh I'm going more times why, yeah, because you know, President Evil's been on my mind a lot.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: So thanks, Travis.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for a good cause.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for a good cause.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, well done, gentlemen.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I don't think I'm gonna pick.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: I I would play either of those games.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: That sounds great.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: And I'm I love me a good dungeon crawler.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: All the ones that we've mentioned thus far, I am in love with.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: So uh well done.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna let the people decide if you want to watch this episode again.
33:45
SPEAKER_03: So there's like a there's like a double meaning there.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have a zombies walk, a dungeon crawler that's about babies crawling through like their living room, and that is the dungeon.
33:56
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, that's actually a brilliant idea.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: Yo, that's actually dungeon crawler.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh that's the board game.
34:02
SPEAKER_03: That doesn't even have to be good.
34:03
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we can literally slap a couple mechanisms on that, and the theme alone is gonna sell.
34:08
SPEAKER_03: We're going to Kickstarter.
34:09
SPEAKER_03: Oh, there it is.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: Hey, we can expect those con Gen Con, we can expect you there with that.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: All right.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, well done.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: If you're listening to this episode, if you're watching this episode, let us know which of those two games that you would rather play.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh, go check out Vic's page, Games EMOS podcast.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: They're on YouTube, they're on Spotify, they're on TikTok, they're on Instagram, they're on Facebook, they're on everything.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Everything.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: Apple Podcasts, they're on.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: You could find them probably at your local grocery store.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh Vic is doing good things.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: Go check him out.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Go check his page out.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Go give him some love.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Go give Clay's mustache some love, too.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Because it's creepy and gross.
34:55
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's not a good look.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: But this was a punishment for Mary.
35:00
SPEAKER_03: She was she gave my beard a lot of flack, and I said, Well, if you think that's bad, let me see what's next.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
35:09
SPEAKER_03: I just can't wait until the soul patch comes in.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh, there it is.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be nice.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: We have different stages of facial hero now going on.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: We got mustache.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Nice phases.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh okay.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's get out of here.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: We have uh you know tap down danced enough for Operation Game Night.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: I have been Travis, he has been Clay, he has been Vic from the Game Z MOS podcast.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us, and we are out.