Latest / Talk Copy to Me | Content + Copywriting Podcast / Want to Know What Copy Coaching Is Really Like? Peek Behind the Scenes

Transcript

Want to Know What Copy Coaching Is Really Like? Peek Behind the Scenes · Talk Copy to Me | Content + Copywriting Podcast

• 0:00
  Have you ever wondered what it's like to get professional feedback on your copy, and not just this needs work, you know, but specific actionable guidance that actually helps you improve as a writer and a marketer?
• 0:16
  Today I am taking you inside what a copy coaching session looks like to show you exactly how the feedback and collaboration process works for a done with you copywriting project.
• 0:32
  I.
• 0:43
  Last week we talked about the done with you approach to copywriting and why copy coaching fills such an important gap in the market.
• 0:52
  .
• 0:52
  The process itself, in all honesty, work that I do changes with every client.
• 1:01
  And because everything is so custom, I think it's very normal to wonder how detailed the feedback would be, what collaboration actually means, , and how we work together to go from a rough first draft to a polished piece of final copy.
• 1:19
  So I hope that this episode answers some of those questions for you.
• 1:25
  I will talk about my feedback process.
• 1:27
  I will talk about how we work through revisions and what the collaborative writing looks like when it all comes together.
• 1:35
  So as I mentioned a second ago.
• 1:37
  Done with you.
• 1:38
  Copy can change vastly depending on the pro on the project.
• 1:43
  And if you are curious about the two main ways I work with people, it's usually before a project gets started.
• 1:50
  And it's usually after copy has been written.
• 1:54
  But regardless of the way that we start to work together, what happens is that at some point.
• 2:00
  Copy and content has been written.
• 2:03
  So let's start with part one, which is the initial review process when a client submits their first draft to me, my review process has several layers.
• 2:13
  I am not reading for typos or grammar.
• 2:16
  Or I should say, maybe I'm not just reading for typos and grammar, but I'm specifically not doing that in the beginning of the project, during that first draft.
• 2:25
  I don't care if you know how to use a comma, if you love ellipses or if you want to write in all caps for half of the first draft, as long as the content is there, that's what I'm going to focus on.
• 2:40
  When I do that, the, the copy and the content is really looked through multiple lenses.
• 2:45
  First, I'm reviewing it against the strategy that we have already determined.
• 2:50
  Does the copy accomplish what we set out for it to do?
• 2:54
  Is it actually speaking to the right audience?
• 2:57
  And if so, does it address their main concerns?
• 3:00
  Does it address the hesitations that they have before buying?
• 3:05
  And doing a strategic review first often reveals opportunities for improvement.
• 3:12
  Maybe someone does speak to an audience, their audience in a way that feels really good and, you know, picks up on the concerns that they have.
• 3:22
  However, the way that they're addressing those concerns and desires might not be how we originally set out to approach it.
• 3:30
  For example, sometimes people are very,, pain point heavy, but earlier in our conversations they've made it, you know.
• 3:37
  Pretty clear that that's not what they like to do in their writing.
• 3:40
  So it's easy for me to start with strategy so that way I can review to make sure everything we set out to do has been accomplished, and if not, know what needs to be done or changed.
• 3:53
  Once that's done, I will look at the structure and flow.
• 3:57
  Does the copy move logistically from one point to the next?
• 4:01
  This specifically is something I see consistently when I am editing other people's writing.
• 4:09
  There are no transitions built in, or there are abrupt gaps that might need to be filled and.
• 4:16
  We don't wanna confuse our readers.
• 4:18
  We want the flow to take them on a journey as, as corny as that sounds.
• 4:24
  So we want to make sure that there is a hierarchy to our, what we're we're creating.
• 4:28
  You know, there's actually a flow in place.
• 4:31
  There's an outline that takes them from intro to conclusion on a logical manner, and that we actually present it that way and well in our writing.
• 4:42
  After I've done strategy and structure, I will move on to messaging.
• 4:46
  Is the value prop clear?
• 4:48
  Are we leading with benefits or do we just get bogged down with the features?
• 4:54
  , Is the language compelling and conversational?
• 4:57
  Does it actually sound like them?
• 5:00
  So often I think people think that they need to sound professional in their writing, and we're gonna throw some air quotes on that word professional because what happens is their copy and content come off as too corporate or too stiff and it feels.
• 5:15
  Very much like there is a distance between the reader and the business owner.
• 5:20
  Alternatively, sometimes I think people try to have way too much personality and they write as they think they are talking.
• 5:30
  However, what they're writing sounds a little bit more like pop culture memes, should I say?
• 5:39
  And finally after I do all of this, I'm gonna look at the technical elements.
• 5:43
  Are there calls to action?
• 5:44
  There are.
• 5:45
  Is the formatting correct?
• 5:47
  Is the readability correct?
• 5:48
  Because white space is some of the easiest things to change.
• 5:52
  We don't want huge blocks of text and huge paragraphs.
• 5:56
  We want to make sure, sure, that if there's anything we need to call out, we do that with headings and subheadings so let me give you an example.
• 6:04
  Over the past year, I worked with a business coach on her services page.
• 6:09
  She had previously had multiple services pages, and she wanted to combine them under one services page on her website that just showcased the different offers.
• 6:20
  Now, the first draft that she gave me was well written.
• 6:25
  But what it did was focus almost entirely on the process and, and I don't know if credentials is the right word, but like the process she has and why she is the right person.
• 6:37
  And that's not necessarily what needs to happen on a services page that has multiple options because.
• 6:44
  Clients usually at this stage want to know that the, there's a solution, they wanna know that she can solve their problems and they can learn more about her by going to her about page.
• 6:58
  And , in this case it worked out well for her to have her own process page.
• 7:03
  , That was kind of summed up quickly on the services page, but removing some of that really gave the end user a chance to.
• 7:12
  Visualize whether the product, the service that she was offering was actually relevant to what they needed.
• 7:19
  It allowed them to see themself as a potential client because it showcased that she understood their desires and you know, the challenges that they were facing.
• 7:29
  And then it presented solutions to them.
• 7:32
  It did not talk about how each solution could be resolved in like a 14 step manner.
• 7:39
  It didn't talk about what it would be like.
• 7:41
  , During the work together, it just presented the solution and introduced them to the idea that they could reach out to work with her if they felt like the solutions that she was offering was what they needed.
• 7:55
  I think that kind of is a quick overview of what an initial review is kind of looking like.
• 7:59
  Again, it's strategy, it's structure, it's messaging, it's technical, , creative writing elements one question that I get asked specifically about done with you copywriting is about the feedback that I'm doing because I think people are worried I'm going to take a red pen to their content and really judge their efforts.
• 8:22
  Or alternatively, I think people are worried that I'm gonna just put a note there that says this section is weak, and then move on without giving.
• 8:30
  Any more indications of why I think it's weak or why it's not working.
• 8:35
  The feedback that I provide is specific and it's actionable so that you can understand what needs to change, but more importantly, why it needs to change.
• 8:46
  Do not hire a copywriting coach if they are not able to teach you how to improve your writing so that you eventually can do this all on your own, or, I mean, you can continue working with them if you like it, but you don't want a copywriting coach who is going to.
• 9:04
  Make you reliant on them, you want to improve.
• 9:07
  That's part of the coaching is the improvement.
• 9:10
  So for each section that I'm reviewing, I am trying to identify what's working well.
• 9:16
  This could be, , really strong phrases or maybe just an effective structure to what's being, what's written.
• 9:23
  Let's say it's a blog post, it, maybe the outline is really strong and it just needs to be fleshed out a little, because understanding what works.
• 9:33
  Also helps my clients replicate those strengths throughout the piece.
• 9:38
  Not just the needs improvement things, but what's working is helpful as well.
• 9:43
  While I'm doing this editing, I'm also providing specific rewrite suggestions.
• 9:50
  So sometimes a client might just need to see an example of how to approach a tricky situation differently.
• 9:56
  Often I will say like, this is yours.
• 9:58
  You use it, you, there's no need to attribute anything to me here.
• 10:02
  Like you can take my exact words if it works for you, or I'll say like, here's the gist of what I'm trying to say, and here's how you can make the adjustment, but do it in your own words.
• 10:14
  So I'm not specifically rewriting their copy for them, but I'm showing them a direction that they can take, or multiple directions they can take within the copy itself because through the feedback I'm teaching copywriting principles, because you know, I've said this already in this whole section, but the goal is for my clients to understand the reasoning so they can apply it now and in the future.
• 10:39
  Okay, now let's talk about the collaborative revision process, because once my client receives my feedback, they need to kind of take it all in and.
• 10:49
  In some instances, it's helpful to schedule a revision session to work through the changes together.
• 10:55
  , Whether that is on a video call or whether we have just hopped into a Google document and we're both kind of chatting to each other as we make adjustments, that part doesn't matter.
• 11:05
  Basically, it's just a collaborative approach where the copy coaching part really shines.
• 11:11
  Let's say we're on a video call to do this together.
• 11:15
  In that case, we can go through the feedback systematically and I can explain my suggestions, or the client gets to ask me questions and together we can figure out the best way to implement changes that feel like, like it's their voice or that feel like they just don't know what to say, you know, to move on to the next point to to have a transition.
• 11:38
  And sometimes my suggestions spark even better ideas because of the client's input.
• 11:46
  So I might suggest one thing and they might say, oh, that reminds me of this client story where X, Y, Z happened.
• 11:55
  Would that work well here?
• 11:56
  Or for example, especially in a technical, like if I'm working with someone who has technical expertise, let's say a photographer, to make it more simple.
• 12:06
  If I suggest that they say something specific, they might say to me, well, I have a better way to explain that.
• 12:13
  You know, they might not be talking to their client, their own clients about their techniques or how they're editing their pictures.
• 12:21
  They might phrase it in a specific way that is just not familiar to me because I am not a photographer.
• 12:27
  So that's the collaborative magic, combining professional strategy with their own individual intimate knowledge of their business.
• 12:36
  And I guess the beauty of the collaborative revision, whether we're on a call or not, is that we can correlate together in real time.
• 12:42
  We're working together to craft headlines, to smooth out transitions, to strengthen calls to actions.
• 12:50
  My clients drive the process, but I'm there to help when they need it.
• 12:54
  And in doing this, sometimes there's co-writing that happens.
• 12:58
  That's probably the most misunderstood part of the process.
• 13:02
  I'm not writing their copy for them.
• 13:04
  It's not like my client comes to me and says, Hey, I, I'm writing my whole website.
• 13:10
  You know, we outline it together.
• 13:11
  They write four out of the five pages, and they come back to me and say, you know what?
• 13:16
  I'd rather not write my about page.
• 13:18
  So it's your turn to do that.
• 13:21
  But if you're listening, you're probably thinking, wouldn't that be nice?
• 13:25
  Huh?
• 13:25
  No one loves to write their own about page.
• 13:28
  , So yes, I'm, they're not parceling out things that they don't want to do, but what they're doing is they're indicating to me where the roadblocks are.
• 13:36
  Where are they getting stuck?
• 13:38
  Where do they maybe not know how to, , provide solutions or how to build up hype in areas for clients who are excited to buy?
• 13:48
  Light co-writing might mean that I'm helping to craft a particularly important section.
• 13:55
  Or it might mean that we are labor adjusting word choice because we're looking for something that's really custom to their business.
• 14:04
  Maybe it could be something like they're struggling with the messaging and they don't know exactly how to get that voice and tone to match how they're imagining it.
• 14:15
  And sometimes it just means providing alternative visions of tricky elements.
• 14:19
  So if a client is stuck on a headline, I might provide multiple options.
• 14:24
  To that, take different approaches and then we can discuss what direction really feels authentic to them and that they feel comfortable to do because.
• 14:35
  Another rule of copy coaching my friends are done with you copywriting, is you want to feel you as the client who hires the copy coach, want to feel like you have the ability to do whatever your copy coach is suggesting.
• 14:50
  You don't want to feel like it's a massive undertaking or you don't have the skill to do something that just means it's not right for you.
• 14:57
  You all have the skill to do your business.
• 14:59
  Writing a good coach brings out the best part of your skill.
• 15:05
  So that you can kind of let that shine and gives you options that maybe they make you a little anxious because writing makes everyone anxious.
• 15:12
  I even get anxious sometimes when I'm writing, but regardless of those anxieties, you still feel comfortable stepping into that writing that you have to do.
• 15:23
  I think what makes done with you copywriting so different from other types of projects is.
• 15:30
  Overall, the client is always in control.
• 15:35
  Whether we are collaborating on solutions, you know, it's, it's not me taking over a project and telling them what to do, and it's also not them coming to me and saying, here's how we're doing everything.
• 15:45
  It's us working together to find the best strategy or the best solution.
• 15:50
  , The clients are understanding the decisions that they make because.
• 15:55
  They're taking part in the role of making those decisions, and that's why copy coaching really does require the right mindset.
• 16:03
  You need to be an active participant and you cannot be a passive observer if you're looking for someone who will be able to take your project and handle a lot of it or make a lot of those decisions for you.
• 16:16
  Copy coaching's not for you, but if you want to be involved, if you wanna learn the process and ensure that your voice is coming through, this is where this collaborative approach can be really powerful.
• 16:27
  And not only is it powerful, but it's really strengthening your writing ability, because learning is really a huge part of the process.
• 16:37
  It's not just about getting one piece of copyright.
• 16:41
  It's about building skills you can use now, next week.
• 16:46
  Next year and as far into the future as you'd like to, as long as you're continuing to do the practice and the more practice you have.
• 16:53
  Like any sport, you know, I used a football example last week, but the more practice you have, the better you are at what you are doing.
• 17:03
  But more importantly, the more comfortable you feel with doing these things.
• 17:09
  So if sitting down to write a sales page for a launch stresses you out endlessly.
• 17:15
  But yet you've learned better skills.
• 17:17
  You have general templates.
• 17:20
  You understand why decisions are made in marketing.
• 17:24
  Now, the next time you write that sales page, or maybe when you write the email sales copy that go along with that sales launch, you're gonna feel more confident doing it.
• 17:34
  And a more confident writer really ends up having better output.
• 17:40
  And you're not just learning how to write, you're also learning how to edit because I want you to understand, again, you know my process of what I'm looking for and how I actually edit the work.
• 17:51
  I want you to be able to do that yourself.
• 17:54
  I've actually worked with someone multiple times who has.
• 17:57
  Significantly improved that their writing and instead of coming with a first draft, they come to me with a first draft that is already edited, meaning they have left me comments and questions and concerns all over the document.
• 18:14
  They're now able to say, I know I've really dropped the ball here, like I'm promising a lot.
• 18:19
  And then I jump and I start talking about like, who am I without kind of following up on the promise that I'm giving.
• 18:26
  But I'm really struggling on what to say before I do the introduction.
• 18:31
  So can you give me some suggestions to not make this feel so blunt or so choppy or, you know, I really want it to feel more welcoming.
• 18:40
  That that's making my job easier and it's giving them more value because we can push through this work quicker.
• 18:48
  I would say I don't, or maybe more efficiently, I would say that more, better than the word quicker, we can be more efficient, which allows us to do more work together.
• 18:57
  You know, instead of writing just one draft, we write those, the sales page and sales emails, or we edit them, whatever the work actually is done.
• 19:07
  If you're.
• 19:08
  Learning how to be a better copywriter, and you're learning how to be a better editor.
• 19:13
  You're just gonna be better at marketing overall.
• 19:16
  Many of my clients will tell me that working together really changed how they approach a lot of their marketing content because they understand their audience better.
• 19:26
  They're more strategic about messaging, and like I just said, they're feeling more confident in their own abilities.
• 19:35
  So to wrap this all up, copy coaching is really an intensive and collaborative experience that's combining professional strategy with your own unique voice and knowledge.
• 19:47
  The feedback that you're getting is detailed and educational.
• 19:51
  The revision process is truly collaborative, and the co-writing helps you through challenges while keeping you in control of your messaging.
• 20:00
  But copy coaching is not just about working with humans.
• 20:04
  As crazy as that sounds, a copy coach can also help you learn how to train I AI tools to create better content for you, or not even create content to repurpose content, to edit content.
• 20:18
  I hear so many people, friends, colleagues, clients, tell me that they're using AI tools to write their emails, social posts, maybe make Pinterest pin messaging, right, meta descriptions, whatever they're using it for.
• 20:35
  But they're not necessarily trained in using it effectively.
• 20:40
  A copy coach can help you develop the voice and tone and style guidelines, develop the instruction sets, develop the use cases to use AI so that whatever like output you're looking for is consistent and it's quality.
• 20:59
  So if you are interested in working with me for copy coaching, head on over to erin ola.com and learn more about how we can work together.
• 21:08
  But until then, I'll see you back next week where we're talking AI and copy coaching.
• 21:14
  Have a great day and let's keep talking Copy.