Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / Explore The Fascinating World of Your Endocannabinoid System, with Dr. Jim Connell

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Explore The Fascinating World of Your Endocannabinoid System, with Dr. Jim Connell · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

0:00
Speaker 1: There are certain compounds within cannabis that can actually have
0:03
Speaker 1: an antagonistic effect blocking effect at that CB one receptor.
0:08
Speaker 1: So there are cannabis tools that can help with appetite
0:11
Speaker 1: suppression and improving safetidy and improving sort of blood sugar
0:16
Speaker 1: and arrange different things there. So the endocannabinoid system is
0:19
Speaker 1: integrally linked to metabolism, not just through those sort of
0:23
Speaker 1: hunger cubes, but also through effects at the sort of
0:26
Speaker 1: pancreas and the liver and a range of other areas
0:29
Speaker 1: as well.
0:40
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, before we get into this week's podcast, we've
0:43
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1:54
Speaker 3: Doctor Jim Connell. Welcome to the podcast.
1:56
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me. It's pleasure to
1:58
Speaker 1: be here. Finally.
1:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, indeed, we've had a few back and forth. Now.
2:03
Speaker 3: I first met you. We had a quick chat at
2:05
Speaker 3: the Jesus I can't remember whether it was the Aslam
2:09
Speaker 3: Conference of the Act. It was one of the ones
2:13
Speaker 3: for health professionals, and you gave a super interesting talk
2:19
Speaker 3: on the endocannabinoid system, and I thought I got to
2:22
Speaker 3: get this guy in the podcast because I had a
2:26
Speaker 3: little bit of knowledge about the endocannabinoid system. Obviously know
2:29
Speaker 3: that we have the system, you know, that's what the cannabis.
2:33
Speaker 3: That's how it has an impact on the Brian because
2:36
Speaker 3: we have an indulge in the system.
2:37
Speaker 2: And I knew that it was involved in moot.
2:40
Speaker 3: But Jesus Christ, did you open my eyes to this stuff?
2:45
Speaker 3: So you're a GP, right, how does a GP become
2:51
Speaker 3: interested in the endocannabinoid system to the point where you
2:54
Speaker 3: become an expert and you're lecturing other health professionals on it.
2:58
Speaker 1: Well, look to a very good, good question. I was
3:01
Speaker 1: a GP really interested in complex and chronic disease management,
3:04
Speaker 1: managing chronic pain, mental health conditions, or just most patients
3:08
Speaker 1: out there have multiple comorbidities and they can't fit into
3:11
Speaker 1: a particular box. As much as we try and make
3:14
Speaker 1: them into one or two diagnoses, most patients don't really
3:17
Speaker 1: fit into that sort of paradigm. And the conventional sort
3:21
Speaker 1: of tools that I was using, the normal sort of
3:23
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical tools are really made to treat single conditions and
3:28
Speaker 1: have unexpected sort of outcomes for people who have more
3:31
Speaker 1: complex issues and could often lead to their own sort
3:34
Speaker 1: of morbidity and their own sort of side effect burden.
3:36
Speaker 1: So I was looking for solutions for my complex patients
3:39
Speaker 1: and who have tried many different things and treatment resistant
3:43
Speaker 1: in many ways. And I was very lucky to be
3:45
Speaker 1: in a practice back in twenty seventeen where there was
3:48
Speaker 1: actually a very early prescriber of medical cannabis in my clinic,
3:52
Speaker 1: and I was open to it, and he showed me
3:55
Speaker 1: how to actually do the application. And my first patient
3:58
Speaker 1: was a veteran who you know, being shot in the
4:01
Speaker 1: Middle East somewhere and had complex issues around pain and
4:03
Speaker 1: PTSD and was really struggling to reintegrate back into severe
4:08
Speaker 1: and life, and you know, he was affecting his relationships,
4:11
Speaker 1: and he was leaning too heavily on alcohol, and we
4:14
Speaker 1: didn't really have anything else to go for, so we
4:17
Speaker 1: trialed some medical cannabis with him, just a balanced oil
4:20
Speaker 1: to try and regulate his sleep patterns, and had wonderful
4:23
Speaker 1: improvements in his sleep, in in his PTSD symptoms, improvements
4:27
Speaker 1: in his pain control. And then I tried using medical
4:31
Speaker 1: cannabis with a few other patients within the clinic, and
4:33
Speaker 1: some had profoundly beneficial results and others had you know,
4:37
Speaker 1: marginal sort of improvements. Others had some side effects without improvements,
4:40
Speaker 1: And at the time, there was no education or training
4:44
Speaker 1: around this medicine, which is very novel at that point
4:46
Speaker 1: in time, and it is still quite a novel treatment.
4:49
Speaker 1: And then discovered through trying to understand how these medicines
4:52
Speaker 1: worked the end of cannabinoid system, and the more I
4:55
Speaker 1: delved into it, the more fascinated I became, and the
4:58
Speaker 1: more I couldn't understand and how this is not the
5:01
Speaker 1: foundational knowledge upon which all other sort of systematics sort
5:05
Speaker 1: of knowledge that we learned through medical schools was built.
5:08
Speaker 1: And so I've been trying to upskill and learn more,
5:13
Speaker 1: and then from what I've learned, educate others on this
5:16
Speaker 1: really importance of the system and then how to modulate
5:19
Speaker 1: it to help promote health and well being because this
5:23
Speaker 1: is a complex system for complex patients and complex diseases,
5:27
Speaker 1: and that's what most patients really really are in many ways.
5:30
Speaker 3: Can I just double click on that, actually, because you
5:33
Speaker 3: bring up a really interesting point which I think there's
5:36
Speaker 3: a limitation of Western medicine and Western science in general,
5:41
Speaker 3: because we have this Newtonian Cartesian worldview and science where
5:46
Speaker 3: we break things down into its smallest component part, which
5:51
Speaker 3: often necessities and medically starts going down at a cellular
5:55
Speaker 3: level and understanding stuff from that component, which is obviously
5:59
Speaker 3: given and us great knowledge. But then when it comes
6:02
Speaker 3: to interventions, I think you alluded to it there. It
6:07
Speaker 3: misses out the fact that we are a complex, equal
6:10
Speaker 3: system and that there are very few conditions that just
6:15
Speaker 3: are targeted on one little tiny part of the body.
6:20
Speaker 3: Tell us why you see, you know, give us your
6:23
Speaker 3: opinion on that, and why there is often so much
6:26
Speaker 3: core morbidities that pieces present.
6:29
Speaker 1: With yeah, so on that you know, people are sort
6:32
Speaker 1: of dynamic, constantly sort of changing. So and most of
6:36
Speaker 1: the receptors you know that you know medications might be targeting,
6:40
Speaker 1: Our cells that medications might be targeting have multiple and
6:42
Speaker 1: varied roles you know, throughout the body, and you know,
6:45
Speaker 1: and there's a whole bunch of sort of epigenetic and
6:47
Speaker 1: dynamic changes that are ongoing all the time. So to
6:51
Speaker 1: look at something under the Petri dish, you know, at
6:54
Speaker 1: a single sailor sort of type sort of model, it's
6:56
Speaker 1: never really going to translate into the complex organis that
7:00
Speaker 1: we are as sort of humans. And I think a
7:03
Speaker 1: lot of that science, that deep knowledge around what the
7:06
Speaker 1: activity is at a certain sort of sealer level provides
7:10
Speaker 1: us with some reassurance and confidence when we're using these
7:13
Speaker 1: powerful tools, but whether it is actually telling the real
7:17
Speaker 1: story of what's going on within the body, I think
7:19
Speaker 1: is not necessarily true from my perspective. In regards to
7:23
Speaker 1: looking at patients developing multiple comorbidities, a lot of that
7:27
Speaker 1: comes down to the endocannabinoid system's role in the progression
7:31
Speaker 1: and the development of disease. And so this is a
7:35
Speaker 1: system that works on regulating our internal environment. It's the
7:39
Speaker 1: master homeostatic regulatory system. Yeah, yeah, And so as it's
7:44
Speaker 1: placed under increase of stresses and load with deteriorating sort
7:48
Speaker 1: of health, then it becomes unable to keep up with
7:52
Speaker 1: the demands that are placed upon it. And if our
7:54
Speaker 1: main internal balancing systems aren't able to keep up with
7:58
Speaker 1: the demands, then more things be come out of balance
8:00
Speaker 1: and we start developing issues across other physiological sort of
8:05
Speaker 1: domains and other things will start cropping up. So I
8:09
Speaker 1: often see in a lot of doctors would see this
8:12
Speaker 1: out there in the community that a patient will come
8:14
Speaker 1: in with a particular condition and they'll be managing for
8:17
Speaker 1: a period of time and they'll be you know, they'll
8:19
Speaker 1: be struggling through and struggling through and then something, you know,
8:23
Speaker 1: another factor, another stress that will be placed upon their system,
8:27
Speaker 1: and you know, the straw that breaks the camels back,
8:29
Speaker 1: so to speak. And then things start unraveling and they
8:32
Speaker 1: sleep becomes disregulated, Then their mood becomes disregulated, they start
8:35
Speaker 1: becoming metabolically disregulated. They start getting sort of obesity, diabetes,
8:39
Speaker 1: and a range of other things. And in my opinion,
8:43
Speaker 1: all of these, you know, comorbid conditions have a central
8:46
Speaker 1: linking system. That is, if we can support it and
8:51
Speaker 1: tonify it in a positive way, then we can help
8:55
Speaker 1: across these myriad of domains that are becoming disregulated.
8:59
Speaker 3: You just kind of preempted my next question was, you know,
9:02
Speaker 3: having listened to your talk, but my eyes really lit
9:05
Speaker 3: up when you talked about the role of the endocannabinoid
9:08
Speaker 3: system in homeostasis in the body. So, for our listeners
9:12
Speaker 3: who may not be well versed on this, let's talk
9:15
Speaker 3: a little bit about homeostasis. Because the body's got there's
9:19
Speaker 3: so many things that it tightly tightly regulates, right from
9:23
Speaker 3: our blood sugar to our blood pressure, to our pH
9:26
Speaker 3: to our hormones, to our temperature, give people a sense
9:30
Speaker 3: of how important this internal homeostasis actually is. And then
9:37
Speaker 3: the second part of the question is is it just
9:40
Speaker 3: the endocannabinoid system that is responsible for running at or
9:43
Speaker 3: is there a number of different systems that interact with
9:45
Speaker 3: the endocannabinoid system for homeostasis A big question and it
9:50
Speaker 3: goes podcast of an entire podcast on that food.
9:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, look, the body needs to be finally trained
9:57
Speaker 1: all the time to make sure it's functioning, it's optimum
10:00
Speaker 1: in the environment that it finds itself. And I think
10:03
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's homeostasis, which is that really tight
10:06
Speaker 1: you know, regulation of things like the acid base, you know,
10:11
Speaker 1: pH balance with it within the body, which you know,
10:13
Speaker 1: if it goes outside of a very finite sort of
10:15
Speaker 1: set parameter, then it leads to catastrophic consequences. I think
10:20
Speaker 1: where the endocannabinoid system sort of fits in is more
10:23
Speaker 1: of an allostatic tool, which is.
10:25
Speaker 3: The just on my next bloody question, but anyway, go aheads.
10:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's the it's the capacity to maintain dynamic
10:32
Speaker 1: equilibrium between you in a state that's constantly shifting and changing,
10:37
Speaker 1: and that needs to occur to allow us to adapt
10:41
Speaker 1: to many different sort of circumstances and environments. If we
10:44
Speaker 1: were if we had to be so tightly controlled that
10:47
Speaker 1: we were only you know, within these very finite set parameters,
10:50
Speaker 1: we would only be able to live in a very
10:52
Speaker 1: finite set of circumstances. And as we know, humans can
10:56
Speaker 1: survive and you know, in a range of different sort
10:59
Speaker 1: of environ it's you know, have people sort of in
11:01
Speaker 1: outer space, and so we have to be able to
11:04
Speaker 1: continually adapt and change, and it needs to be dynamic,
11:08
Speaker 1: but there does need to be an optimum way that
11:12
Speaker 1: our bodies are responding in all of these different environments,
11:14
Speaker 1: and the endocannabinoid system fine tunes this process so it's
11:18
Speaker 1: not evoking all of the change. It's like we have
11:21
Speaker 1: all these opposing networks, a myriad of opposing networks within
11:26
Speaker 1: the body. And so you know, say with something like inflammation,
11:29
Speaker 1: you know, too much inflammation can cause injury and pain
11:32
Speaker 1: and disease. It also is necessary to fight off infections
11:36
Speaker 1: and to help with healing and repair and arrange of
11:38
Speaker 1: different things. And so the same process can be positive
11:42
Speaker 1: or negative depending on the situation that finds itself. So
11:46
Speaker 1: the body needs to have a sort of a fine
11:48
Speaker 1: tuning feedback system that make sure that the body's response
11:52
Speaker 1: is an appropriate one to the insult or the stressor
11:56
Speaker 1: that has been placed upon it. And it's this fine
11:58
Speaker 1: tuning sort of processes where the endocannabinoid system, you know,
12:02
Speaker 1: is the main process that makes this sort have happen.
12:05
Speaker 1: They've done studies where they you know, knocked out the
12:10
Speaker 1: you know, the endogenous endocannabinoid system or the or the
12:12
Speaker 1: receptors in mice in the past, and it doesn't kill them.
12:15
Speaker 1: They just have a very miserable existence. The you know,
12:18
Speaker 1: the depressed, they feel pain more strongly. They're you know,
12:21
Speaker 1: li in motivation that sleeps this regulated and arrange of
12:24
Speaker 1: different things. So it's it's it's the system that helps
12:27
Speaker 1: us reach our best best potential in many ways.
12:31
Speaker 3: So if we take that into stuff that I'm more
12:34
Speaker 3: familiar with with alastatic lord, So you're talking about other
12:38
Speaker 3: siss and alostatic lord basically around stress and those chronic
12:43
Speaker 3: stressors that then increase our stimuliate adaptations in the body
12:50
Speaker 3: that will So there's the end of cannabinoid system. Then,
12:53
Speaker 3: from our understanding what you said, it comes in to
12:56
Speaker 3: help the body to rebalance, and there's sometimes does that
12:59
Speaker 3: mean balancing at a different level, or is it often
13:04
Speaker 3: try and then to just come back to a natural
13:07
Speaker 3: level of homeostasis.
13:09
Speaker 1: It's more trying to help the system find or rebalance.
13:14
Speaker 1: So it's the adaptation to the environment, which so it's
13:17
Speaker 1: not if the body's trying to adapt in a positive way.
13:20
Speaker 1: It's not going to say, I'm going to know, bring
13:21
Speaker 1: you back to what you've always been, because that's where
13:24
Speaker 1: my set parameters are. It is a much more sort
13:27
Speaker 1: of dynamic and intuitive types of a process, and so
13:30
Speaker 1: it's a cellular communications system within the body that is
13:33
Speaker 1: helping to regulate all of these other intricate processes that
13:37
Speaker 1: we have going on. A good way to sort of
13:40
Speaker 1: try and conceptualize it is, you know, your body is
13:42
Speaker 1: like a complex symphony orchestra. We have all of these
13:45
Speaker 1: amazing sort of pieces playing these intricate and really sort
13:48
Speaker 1: of detailed sort of parts. But if they're doing it
13:51
Speaker 1: out of time, out of sync, what we're going to
13:53
Speaker 1: have is this horrible and discordant noise. So the endocannabinoid
13:57
Speaker 1: system isn't playing any of those parts. It's there. It's
14:01
Speaker 1: making sure that they're working together at the right volume,
14:04
Speaker 1: at the right tempo. Each part is playing when it's
14:07
Speaker 1: supposed to, so that we can actually create this beautiful
14:10
Speaker 1: symphony that we have with this complex human beings that
14:13
Speaker 1: we are.
14:13
Speaker 3: That makes perfect sense and jump into your hova.
14:16
Speaker 2: What a role that.
14:17
Speaker 3: Is when we take into all the different systems that
14:21
Speaker 3: are in the body. So before we dig into practical
14:25
Speaker 3: implications of the endocannabinoid system, there's different types of receptors.
14:30
Speaker 3: I remember from your talk you talked about CB one
14:32
Speaker 3: and CB two receptors, So how do they differ in
14:37
Speaker 3: their function and location throughout the body.
14:40
Speaker 1: I guess the evolution of our understanding of the endocannabinoid
14:44
Speaker 1: system came from trying to understand how THHC, these plant
14:47
Speaker 1: based cannabinoid was trying to have an impact on the
14:50
Speaker 1: body and why it was causing the intoxicating effects and
14:53
Speaker 1: the physiological changes that were all sort of familiar with.
14:57
Speaker 1: And so when they were looking at that process, they
14:59
Speaker 1: saw that THHC was actually binding to these receptors you know,
15:02
Speaker 1: on the cell surface, and the first ones that were
15:04
Speaker 1: found were the CB one receptors. So the CB one
15:07
Speaker 1: receptors the main receptors within the central nervous system, and
15:11
Speaker 1: the brain. Like when I first started learning about the
15:15
Speaker 1: endocannabinoid system, I thought, oh, it must just be this
15:18
Speaker 1: minor system, otherwise we would have all been sort of
15:20
Speaker 1: taught about it. But the CB one receptor is you know,
15:23
Speaker 1: the most abundant G protein coupled receptor within the brain.
15:27
Speaker 1: You know, oh really, yep, wow. You know, all of
15:31
Speaker 1: the other sort of seven trans membrane G protein coupled
15:33
Speaker 1: receptors combined probably have about the same amount as the
15:36
Speaker 1: CB one receptors.
15:38
Speaker 3: Which then suggests that it's doing a massive role, massive role.
15:43
Speaker 1: It's it's everywhere, and it's not just on the on
15:45
Speaker 1: the cell surface. There's you know, in more recent years
15:47
Speaker 1: we've found that it's actually intracelar as well, within intracellar
15:51
Speaker 1: organelles and helping the mitochondria like regulate the cell cycle
15:55
Speaker 1: and cellular respirations. So it is not just these interaction
15:59
Speaker 1: but tween cells, but also regulating things within those cells
16:03
Speaker 1: as well. So it's got an absolutely huge role. But
16:06
Speaker 1: CB one is yea predominantly brain central nervous system, but
16:09
Speaker 1: it is in a range of peripheral sort of organs
16:12
Speaker 1: as well, in varying sort of densities and even though
16:15
Speaker 1: these different so in all of these different areas, the
16:19
Speaker 1: activation of CB one will have slightly different effects on
16:23
Speaker 1: where it is and where it's located on that cell,
16:25
Speaker 1: but the aim is always the same. It's the fine
16:27
Speaker 1: tune and balance, and it does this by having this
16:31
Speaker 1: retrograde signaling sort of process. So normally, you know, most
16:35
Speaker 1: neurotransmitters produced and they're held within a neuron and then
16:38
Speaker 1: they're released when that sort of impulse to be released occurs,
16:42
Speaker 1: and they have this antio grade sort of activation where
16:45
Speaker 1: they move from a pre sign addict to a possone
16:48
Speaker 1: appdicts that a neuron activate the neuron and it causes
16:51
Speaker 1: downstream effects. When that happens, there's a bunch of calcium
16:56
Speaker 1: that sort of goes into the neuron and that causes
17:00
Speaker 1: these endocannabinoids to be created, and they're created from the
17:03
Speaker 1: cell membrane itself, from the phosphate lipid bilayer. And then
17:07
Speaker 1: because that cell's been activated, it releases endocannabinoids and it
17:12
Speaker 1: moves back in a retrograde fashion and it closes. It
17:15
Speaker 1: starts shutting down the calcium influx into that cell and
17:19
Speaker 1: reduces the release of those neurotransmitters. So it's a sort
17:22
Speaker 1: of a local negative feedback system. So when a system
17:26
Speaker 1: is bank sort of doesn't matter what it is really
17:29
Speaker 1: when it's being overly activated, the endocannabinoid system is trying
17:32
Speaker 1: to sort of tone it down, turn it down, and
17:35
Speaker 1: make sure that it's not becoming over zealous and doing
17:38
Speaker 1: its job too well.
17:39
Speaker 2: That just stimulated a thought, So let's tick something like
17:43
Speaker 2: SSRIs are sn ris So for.
17:46
Speaker 3: The people listening, these are drugs that are used for
17:50
Speaker 3: mood disorders. Because they are having an impact on the
17:55
Speaker 3: between the pre and the pulse synoptic neuron, do they
17:57
Speaker 3: then influence the endocannabinoids them in the post synoptic neuron.
18:02
Speaker 1: Look, I'd say anything that's causing a physiological disruption of
18:06
Speaker 1: any sense is going to be you know, is going
18:08
Speaker 1: to be affecting the endocannabinoid system, and so the vice
18:12
Speaker 1: vice versa. I don't have specific examples in regards to
18:15
Speaker 1: those to those medications, no, but.
18:17
Speaker 2: It just you cause kind of answer my question because
18:20
Speaker 2: one of my questions was going to be what are
18:22
Speaker 2: the what are.
18:23
Speaker 3: The substrips for for producing or the raw.
18:27
Speaker 2: Materials for the endocannabinoid system. Now, you said that in
18:31
Speaker 2: the post synoptic cell, it's that it was the calcium
18:34
Speaker 2: release that stimuliates it.
18:36
Speaker 3: But do we know, like for instance, you know, certain
18:39
Speaker 3: neurotransmitters rely on amino acids that we get from the diet.
18:44
Speaker 3: Is there something similar going on with the endocannabinoid system
18:46
Speaker 3: that it doesn't have raw materials that we need to
18:49
Speaker 3: be consuming.
18:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, really really common common raw materials as well. So
18:53
Speaker 1: they come from polyunsaturated fatty acids, as poly ansaturated fatty acids,
19:00
Speaker 1: cocdonic acid, you know, derivatives predominantly. So I think one
19:03
Speaker 1: of the issues with the endocannabinoid system was that it
19:05
Speaker 1: was you know, it was associated with cannabis, and therefore
19:10
Speaker 1: it's uptake in regards to general education has been the
19:13
Speaker 1: stigma and the bias of cannabis that has influenced its
19:17
Speaker 1: sort of take up. It could have been, in course
19:19
Speaker 1: an a cozonoid signaling system or the master homeo asthetic
19:22
Speaker 1: regulatory system, and it probably would have had some better
19:26
Speaker 1: uptake if it wasn't so closely associated with cannabis. But yes,
19:30
Speaker 1: the precursor es central fatty acids are there within that
19:33
Speaker 1: sort of you know cell membrane that stimulates the bunch
19:37
Speaker 1: of enzymes that then sort of you know, create these endocannabinoids.
19:40
Speaker 1: They're on demand, as required, and then they're released, they're activated,
19:44
Speaker 1: they're taken back inside the cell, and they're broken down.
19:47
Speaker 1: So it's this They don't sort of linger and sit
19:49
Speaker 1: around for a prolonged period of time. So it's very
19:52
Speaker 1: specific and targeted to that area of need.
19:55
Speaker 3: Okay, cool and very interesting, right, So let's not get
19:58
Speaker 3: into that's scat cannabi a lot of the gig So.
20:02
Speaker 1: I was going to say, we spoke about the CB
20:03
Speaker 1: one receptor, but then the CB two, sorry, the other
20:07
Speaker 1: one there, which is predominantly in the immune system, so
20:10
Speaker 1: mainly mainly in splain and immune cells, and you know,
20:13
Speaker 1: it's modulating the the you know, we've got the CB
20:16
Speaker 1: one predominantly modulating the nervous system and cbdo predominantly modulating
20:20
Speaker 1: the immune system. But then these both of these receptors,
20:23
Speaker 1: you know, the nervous system and the immune system, are
20:25
Speaker 1: in all other organs and tissues as well, and they're
20:29
Speaker 1: often there instead of varying varying amounts in varying ratios,
20:31
Speaker 1: these cannabinoid receptors, you have different densities in different parts
20:35
Speaker 1: of the body, depending I guess on how tightly regulated
20:38
Speaker 1: those systems need to be, but they, you know, the
20:41
Speaker 1: role is generally the same, is to try and maintain balance.
20:44
Speaker 3: And hence why it has such widespread effects on human
20:49
Speaker 3: health because it's intimately involved in the function of the
20:52
Speaker 3: nervous system, the central nervous system, and the breeding as
20:55
Speaker 3: well as the immune system, which is pretty bloody significant, right,
20:59
Speaker 3: And you mentioned in the mitochondria because as you were
21:01
Speaker 3: as you were talking about but I was wondering, just
21:05
Speaker 3: given my very superficient knowledge about the impact on so
21:09
Speaker 3: many different diseases and processes, I thought it's got to
21:15
Speaker 3: be interacting with the mitochondria. It's somewhere just give bart
21:19
Speaker 3: because we recently did a podcast on the mitochondria, did
21:22
Speaker 3: a Deep Dave on the mitochondria, so our listeners will
21:25
Speaker 3: be quite familiar with the importance of the mitochondria in
21:29
Speaker 3: both physical and mental health. So talk to just just
21:32
Speaker 3: a little bit about the interactions between the endocannabinoid system
21:36
Speaker 3: and the mitochondria.
21:38
Speaker 1: Look, I think this is an area that you know
21:40
Speaker 1: needs a lot of extra developed development. But I'm pretty
21:43
Speaker 1: sure you know plays the same role as it does
21:46
Speaker 1: does elsewhere in the body, and that's to try and
21:49
Speaker 1: sort of help with those adaptations to the mitochondria, to
21:52
Speaker 1: sort of improve the function of the cell, to make
21:54
Speaker 1: sure it's going through appropriate sort of you know, cell
21:56
Speaker 1: cycle sort of processes. You know, it's utilizing energy in
22:00
Speaker 1: a sort of you know, dynamic and in sort of
22:02
Speaker 1: flexible sort of way. It's an area that I'm interested in,
22:04
Speaker 1: but really does require a bit off more in depth
22:07
Speaker 1: to the research before I can give you a specific
22:09
Speaker 1: e system.
22:10
Speaker 3: It's just another instrument than the orchestra that it conducts, right, That's.
22:13
Speaker 1: Right then, I think, you know, we are sort of
22:15
Speaker 1: saying how important the mitochondry are in regards to health,
22:18
Speaker 1: disease and the longevity and life cycle and metabolic function
22:22
Speaker 1: and a range of other things. So I'm going to
22:24
Speaker 1: have to listen to your podcast and upskill myself on
22:27
Speaker 1: the mitochondrial function.
22:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, it's pretty fascinated podcast, But let's not talk
22:32
Speaker 3: about the impact on our health. So you mentioned the
22:36
Speaker 3: immune system. Just take us on a bit of a
22:39
Speaker 3: deeper exploration of the end of cannabinoid system and its
22:44
Speaker 3: impact on overall immune health, and I guess a sub
22:47
Speaker 3: question is do we see it playing a role in
22:51
Speaker 3: autoimmune conditions, either the pathology or the resolving of them.
22:56
Speaker 1: So once again it's this balance, isn't it, between overall
23:00
Speaker 1: devation and underactivation of the immune system, which is typical
23:03
Speaker 1: of disease. So we've got autoimmune conditions where there's an
23:06
Speaker 1: excessive immune response to non threatening sort of andigens and
23:12
Speaker 1: self cells, and so that's an increase of inflammation. And
23:15
Speaker 1: people who have immune deficiencies who can't fight off infections
23:20
Speaker 1: and viruses and different set of diseases because their immune
23:23
Speaker 1: system is at such a sort of low level, And
23:26
Speaker 1: the endocannabinoid system is really sort of important in that
23:29
Speaker 1: sort of adaptive sort of immune response and the body's
23:32
Speaker 1: understanding what is a threat and what is not and
23:35
Speaker 1: to help regulate that process reduce the inflammatory sort of
23:39
Speaker 1: mediators that might be causing excess inflammatory response. So the
23:44
Speaker 1: majority of the time it is an immune immune modulating
23:47
Speaker 1: sort of experience and anti inflammatory sort of effect that
23:50
Speaker 1: activation of the endocannabinoid system has In areas it's an
23:54
Speaker 1: adaptive response as well, so the body will start expressing
23:57
Speaker 1: more CB two receptors in the areas where there's an
23:59
Speaker 1: in to help improve that sort of healing and repair process,
24:03
Speaker 1: so it's not the static, static thing that's going on
24:06
Speaker 1: in regards to autoimmune conditions. I think it's incredibly important,
24:10
Speaker 1: not just because of how it affects the immune system,
24:12
Speaker 1: but because of how it affects the gut as well
24:14
Speaker 1: and does regulate in many ways the function of the gut,
24:18
Speaker 1: the secretion of fluids, the motility, sort of the healing
24:21
Speaker 1: and repair the actual type junctions as well, so reducing
24:26
Speaker 1: the exposure to inflammatory mediators that lead to that cascade
24:30
Speaker 1: that lead to autoimmune conditions.
24:31
Speaker 3: So, and just to clarify out a bit of depth
24:34
Speaker 3: of that, for our listener's gym, about eighty percent of
24:37
Speaker 3: our immune system resides in the gut, and so we
24:40
Speaker 3: know that when you get gut despiosis or our leaky
24:44
Speaker 3: gut as people will know, it has that that can
24:47
Speaker 3: trigger auto immune conditions. And so not only is the
24:52
Speaker 3: endocannabinoid system helping to regulate the immune system, but it's
24:55
Speaker 3: also helping upstream in terms of that in protecting basically
25:00
Speaker 3: looking after the health of the gut. Is that correct?
25:03
Speaker 1: It is correct, and so there's even an interaction with
25:06
Speaker 1: these you know, the microbes within the body and they
25:09
Speaker 1: can produce endocannabinoid like compounds. Ash interesting part of the
25:15
Speaker 1: you know, part of the way that they communicate with
25:17
Speaker 1: us is through is through these endocannabinoid likes that the mediators,
25:21
Speaker 1: so these yes, is very much involved in that sort
25:24
Speaker 1: of gut brain body you know access that is being
25:29
Speaker 1: recognized as I guess one of the most important sort
25:32
Speaker 1: of access for health and diseases.
25:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, both physical and mental. I think we're starting to
25:37
Speaker 3: see that gut brian immune axis is like hugely important.
25:42
Speaker 3: So just stay on the on the topics of autoimmune
25:45
Speaker 3: conditions then, So has there been any research done on
25:50
Speaker 3: the efficacy of medical cannabis for people with autoimmune conditions
25:56
Speaker 3: or is it more for things like pin our inflammation
26:00
Speaker 3: and those sorts of things. I know there's an interaction
26:02
Speaker 3: between those.
26:02
Speaker 1: But look from a clinical perspective, and I've treated many
26:05
Speaker 1: thousands of patients, there are different sort of cannabinoids that
26:09
Speaker 1: can be utilized to really help support patients with pain,
26:12
Speaker 1: with stress reducing sort of inflammation and have positive effects
26:16
Speaker 1: on their sort of immune markers as well. There's plenty
26:19
Speaker 1: of research out there from a preclinical and animal studies
26:22
Speaker 1: sort the model in regards to the endocannabinoid system and
26:25
Speaker 1: cannabinoids and how they can be useful in these types
26:28
Speaker 1: of conditions, but a lot more sort of you know,
26:30
Speaker 1: large scale randomized control trials necessary to give us more
26:34
Speaker 1: definitive sort of data.
26:35
Speaker 2: But from a clinical perspective, have you seen people with
26:40
Speaker 2: and autoimmune conditions that you're using medical cannabis with them
26:45
Speaker 2: having positive effects not just on PAN but on some
26:49
Speaker 2: of their symptomology as well.
26:51
Speaker 1: Yes, I have, Yeah, definitely seen some positive effects. I
26:54
Speaker 1: think there's so many who're talking about cannabis as a therapy.
26:58
Speaker 1: There's so many different cannabinoids within the cannabis plant, and
27:01
Speaker 1: they all have slightly different sort of effects, and I
27:03
Speaker 1: think we're still scratching the surface of what we can
27:07
Speaker 1: achieve with these different sort of combinations of cannabinoids to
27:10
Speaker 1: be more sort of targeted for certain disease states. So, look,
27:15
Speaker 1: I have seen positive effects. I've seen you know, people
27:17
Speaker 1: have had improvements in their pain, they sleep, the inflammation,
27:20
Speaker 1: their stress. But I wouldn't say clearly that yes, using
27:23
Speaker 1: medical cannabis is a great treatment for X y Z
27:27
Speaker 1: autoimmune condition, but it can be a useful adjunct for
27:30
Speaker 1: people who are going through those other therapies.
27:32
Speaker 3: Okay, that makes sense.
27:33
Speaker 2: So let's not turn back to the Brian and the
27:36
Speaker 2: central nervous system and talk about the role of the
27:39
Speaker 2: end of cannabinoid system on mood and particularly stress and anxiety,
27:45
Speaker 2: because I from our conversation to I'm suspecting it's playing
27:49
Speaker 2: a significant role there.
27:51
Speaker 3: And take our listeners through what we know. What's the
27:53
Speaker 3: current state of knowledge in.
27:55
Speaker 1: This in regards to sort of stress and anxiety.
27:58
Speaker 3: And stress anxiety a mood and generally and the end
28:00
Speaker 3: ofcannabinoid system and high and interferces with those things.
28:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look, it's regulating all of our neurotransmitter sort
28:07
Speaker 1: of function in many ways. There's you know, these opposing networks,
28:10
Speaker 1: opposing sort of neurotransmitter systems. The endocannabinoid system, especially those
28:14
Speaker 1: CIBBI one receptors sort of more dense in certain parts
28:17
Speaker 1: of the brain that control mood and anxiety and the
28:20
Speaker 1: fear response. So there's a high density of cib one
28:23
Speaker 1: receptors in things like that anegdalla and the hippocampus as
28:26
Speaker 1: well as you know, the cerebral cortex. So being able
28:29
Speaker 1: to rationalize that emotion to understand whether it's what the
28:33
Speaker 1: appropriate response to that might be. So it is regulating
28:37
Speaker 1: those areas. There's high densities of the CIBI one receptors,
28:41
Speaker 1: specifically on the gabonergic sort of receptors, which is the
28:44
Speaker 1: main inhibitory sort of neurotransmitter system within the brain, but
28:48
Speaker 1: also you know, it regulates serotonin and dopamine, then glutamate
28:53
Speaker 1: as well to a less lesser extent than GABA. So
28:56
Speaker 1: it is regulating all of those essential neurotransmitters within the
28:58
Speaker 1: brain that you know involved in that stress response. But
29:01
Speaker 1: the stress response is not just occurring within the brain.
29:05
Speaker 1: You know, there's the parasympathetic and sympathetics that are nervous
29:08
Speaker 1: systems being involved. And there is a high density of
29:10
Speaker 1: CB one receptors in the vagus nerve and also interesting
29:15
Speaker 1: in the paraventricular nucleus. I think it is around the
29:19
Speaker 1: area that sort of is where the cortisol and or
29:23
Speaker 1: the precursor sort of hormones that release cortisols that act
29:27
Speaker 1: on the adrenal glands and the endocanabinoid system is involved
29:31
Speaker 1: at all of those parts of the pathway, but one
29:34
Speaker 1: of the things I think with depression is that we're
29:37
Speaker 1: starting to realize that it's not necessarily a deficiency in serotonin.
29:42
Speaker 2: That is, I think it's nigh.
29:45
Speaker 3: I actually interviewed one of the authors on that seminal
29:49
Speaker 3: paper that completely debunked the cerotonin theory of Mark Matson. Actually,
29:55
Speaker 3: I think he presented the same conference we were at.
29:57
Speaker 1: Okay, all right. Unfortunately I didn't to go to as
30:00
Speaker 1: many talks as I would have liked at the conference,
30:02
Speaker 1: but there was some fantastic speakers. But I think what
30:05
Speaker 1: it really is, it's the capacity for the brain to
30:07
Speaker 1: sort of adapt and adapt and change, so to create
30:10
Speaker 1: new pathways and memories and neurogenesis around that sort of
30:14
Speaker 1: hypocampal regions of the brain. I think that's one of
30:16
Speaker 1: the key features of depression, is there's inability to create
30:20
Speaker 1: these create these new pathways, and the endocannabinoid system is
30:23
Speaker 1: heavily involved in instead of neuronoplasticity and sunaptogenesis and neurogenesis
30:29
Speaker 1: as well and creating those new sort of pathways. So
30:31
Speaker 1: it is strongly linked to these to mental health conditions.
30:35
Speaker 3: I remember just when you said that about neurogenesis. I
30:39
Speaker 3: remember years ago when I'm very very light on the
30:42
Speaker 3: detail because I read a resoarch paper years ago showing
30:45
Speaker 3: that people who had recreationally smoked cannabis seemed to have
30:51
Speaker 3: less Alzheimer's disease, and they thought it was because of
30:55
Speaker 3: the impact on neurrogenesis. So, does medical cannabis then has
31:00
Speaker 3: a pub a positive impact on neurogenesis or is it
31:04
Speaker 3: is it a bit more complicated than that.
31:06
Speaker 1: Look, I believe it can you know, have a positive
31:08
Speaker 1: impact on ont of neurogenesis when used appropriately, But if
31:11
Speaker 1: people are abusing you know, high concentration of THHC and
31:15
Speaker 1: disregion anything.
31:16
Speaker 3: There's limits.
31:17
Speaker 2: There's yeah, there's limits, and it's it's like many things
31:20
Speaker 2: that come into the body. There's Goldilocks effect, right.
31:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's all about finding it's all about finding
31:26
Speaker 1: the sweet spot, you know, especially with with THHC, which
31:28
Speaker 1: is the one of the most powerful but also one
31:31
Speaker 1: of the most risky sort of cannabinoids within within the
31:33
Speaker 1: set of cannabis plant and it directly it has a
31:35
Speaker 1: lot of direct activity at those you know, CB one
31:38
Speaker 1: receptors and and so through through that can have powerful
31:41
Speaker 1: positive change if used it the right doses in the
31:44
Speaker 1: right patient but if overused and abused, it can lead
31:47
Speaker 1: to further dysregulation of an out of balance system, which
31:50
Speaker 1: is going to be going to be negative. But the
31:53
Speaker 1: compounds themselves can have neuroprotective sort of properties and anti
31:57
Speaker 1: inflammatory and antioxidant sort of properties as well. I think
32:01
Speaker 1: you know there's been some observational sort of studies that
32:03
Speaker 1: have shown that people who have had head injuries while
32:06
Speaker 1: while using cannabis may have been more likely to have
32:08
Speaker 1: that head injury because of the cannabis, but actually had
32:10
Speaker 1: better protection, be better outcomes than say, if someone who
32:15
Speaker 1: is just using alcohol without the sort of combination of
32:17
Speaker 1: the two, so reducing the insult to the brain that
32:21
Speaker 1: occurs through those traumatics at the injuries. So there's a
32:24
Speaker 1: lot of signals to suggest that yes, cannabis could be utilized,
32:28
Speaker 1: if used appropriately, to help people with neurodegenitive sort of
32:32
Speaker 1: changes and improve brain function in those types of conditions
32:36
Speaker 1: like Alzheimer's.
32:38
Speaker 3: Interesting you mentioned there particularly about TC right, which is
32:42
Speaker 3: is the one that when taking and excess can have
32:46
Speaker 3: negative effects.
32:48
Speaker 2: There's this and I'm not sure whether there's research on
32:50
Speaker 2: this or or it's maybe just your opinion, but we
32:53
Speaker 2: know that the cannabis that's available these days has got
32:58
Speaker 2: much much higher to at C T it's TSC concentrations.
33:02
Speaker 2: Then when me and you we were youngsters smoking the.
33:05
Speaker 3: Od joint, right, is this the driver of the increased
33:11
Speaker 3: risk of psychosis that we see, particularly with teenagers and cannabis.
33:16
Speaker 3: And by the way, I'm not suggesting that they are all
33:18
Speaker 3: teenagers with cannabis can develop psychosis, but it does seem
33:21
Speaker 3: to be a significant risk factor both psychosists and schizophrenia
33:26
Speaker 3: in teenagers who start And is that because of the
33:31
Speaker 3: developing brain? So so two questions, One is it is
33:33
Speaker 3: it the TTC concentration it's doing this? And b why teenagers?
33:38
Speaker 3: Is it because of that? There's so much development happening
33:42
Speaker 3: that that disruption of the endocannabinoid system can have wide
33:46
Speaker 3: spread effects?
33:48
Speaker 1: Really good question in when are we doing a podcast
33:50
Speaker 1: ontoon with a with a psychiatrist myself? Actually, but look,
33:54
Speaker 1: the endocannabinoid system is so important to the maturation of
33:57
Speaker 1: the of the brain, and the brain doesn't stop maturing
34:01
Speaker 1: till the age of twenty five.
34:04
Speaker 3: We're sixty five for some people.
34:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, some people never get there at all. But
34:08
Speaker 1: women it's a bit it's a bit a bit earlier
34:10
Speaker 1: around seat of twenty two, you know, that kind of age.
34:13
Speaker 1: And so this, like the optimization of the endocannabinoid system
34:18
Speaker 1: through this time is incredibly important to make sure that
34:21
Speaker 1: all the neural networks and pathways are at their best,
34:24
Speaker 1: and it sets us up, you know, for life through
34:27
Speaker 1: this sort of period. You know, it might it seems
34:31
Speaker 1: like there's lots of conditions that have, you know, at
34:33
Speaker 1: their core, a dysfunction of the endocannabinoid system.
34:37
Speaker 3: You know.
34:38
Speaker 1: My theory and this is just my theory, is that
34:41
Speaker 1: you know, people who are sort of you know, who
34:43
Speaker 1: are prone to developing a psychotic illness or schizophrenia likely
34:47
Speaker 1: have a dysregulated endocannabinoid system. Many of many of them
34:51
Speaker 1: will started office, right, many of.
34:53
Speaker 3: Them, because it's a master regulator of so many things.
34:56
Speaker 3: That's that's that's, that's.
34:57
Speaker 1: Right, and it's regulating a lot of those dopamonetic sort
34:59
Speaker 1: of you know, systems and other things that are going
35:01
Speaker 1: on there. And so a lot of people will develop
35:04
Speaker 1: a pro joable illness. So they start you might have
35:06
Speaker 1: some social isolation, stress, anxiety, depression, these types of things
35:12
Speaker 1: that are happening before they develop a florid sort of
35:14
Speaker 1: psychotic illness, and at that point in time, if things
35:17
Speaker 1: are you know, if they're engaging in really great behaviors
35:21
Speaker 1: around sleep and stress reduction, and they're probably going to
35:24
Speaker 1: rebalance their system and prevent themselves going into that more
35:28
Speaker 1: chronic sort of psychotic illness sort of state. If they
35:32
Speaker 1: find something like cannabis, which a lot of them will
35:34
Speaker 1: be experimenting and self medicating with a range of different
35:37
Speaker 1: sort of substances, and they find it's beneficial for a
35:39
Speaker 1: lot of those things. Unfortunately, we don't have the cultural
35:42
Speaker 1: sort of wisdom and guidance to help these teenagers understand
35:47
Speaker 1: that there is you know, there is that Goldilock saying
35:49
Speaker 1: that the small amount can be really profound and powerful
35:52
Speaker 1: and beneficial, but too much is too much of a
35:55
Speaker 1: good thing actually is going to lead to negative health outcomes.
35:57
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of them use more and
35:59
Speaker 1: more cannaid because they think that it's helping.
36:02
Speaker 2: Them get an initial benefit. Right, it feels good, So
36:04
Speaker 2: the theory is more should be.
36:06
Speaker 1: Better, More should be better. They use more, and therefore
36:08
Speaker 1: they actually start disregulating things further, and then they're more
36:12
Speaker 1: likely to you know, promote those symptoms or those the
36:16
Speaker 1: dysfunction within the brain that leads to those to the
36:18
Speaker 1: psychosis and those sort of symptoms. So there is a
36:21
Speaker 1: correlation with the increased overactivation of those sort of receptors
36:25
Speaker 1: with high concentrations thatt of THHC products, things that aren't
36:27
Speaker 1: sort of balanced with CBD and other neuroprotective sort of
36:30
Speaker 1: you know, cannabinoids is more likely going to you know,
36:34
Speaker 1: lead to more psychosis.
36:36
Speaker 3: No, I'm a word that we do have limited time
36:39
Speaker 3: because you have to get onto it. So anybody's ever
36:41
Speaker 3: smoked a joint will be familiar with the munchies and
36:44
Speaker 3: some forgetfulness you mentioned earlier on the impact on the
36:47
Speaker 3: hippocambus and hence then the inability to form memories or
36:52
Speaker 3: forgetting or recall those memories. So talk to us about
36:55
Speaker 3: the role that it plays in eating and hunger and
37:00
Speaker 3: then potential uses of the endocannabinoid system in this area.
37:04
Speaker 1: The monov I could just go one step back in
37:06
Speaker 1: regards to the forgetfulness, and most of the time we
37:10
Speaker 1: sort of think of the forgetfulness you know that might
37:13
Speaker 1: come when using something like THHC as a negative sort
37:16
Speaker 1: of side effect, and for a lot of people that's
37:18
Speaker 1: the case, but for patients who are experiencing re experiencing
37:21
Speaker 1: sort of trauma in PTSD, the forgetting of these negative
37:26
Speaker 1: experiences can be really powerful and in a condition. There's
37:31
Speaker 1: some evidence, some pretty good evidence to show that there
37:33
Speaker 1: is a dysfunctional endocannabinoid system in those who have autism
37:37
Speaker 1: spectrum disorder. And one of the things it's often that
37:41
Speaker 1: I see that's the hardest thing for many people with
37:44
Speaker 1: autism to deal with is the excessive overwhelm and overload
37:49
Speaker 1: of a whole bunch of information that they just don't
37:52
Speaker 1: need that they can't get rid of appropriately. So they're remembering,
37:55
Speaker 1: you know, all of these insignificant not always, but a
37:59
Speaker 1: lot of difference that have, you know, events or occurrences
38:02
Speaker 1: or details that just aren't actually helping them sort of function,
38:05
Speaker 1: and that leads to complete overwhelm, and the inability to
38:09
Speaker 1: forget these things is actually what's causing the dysfunction. So
38:13
Speaker 1: that forgetting nature is really important in health as well.
38:17
Speaker 3: And I think important for a good functioning Brian on
38:21
Speaker 3: a daily basis, because we are bombarded with so many
38:24
Speaker 3: bits of information right taken into the brand and it
38:27
Speaker 3: can process all that ship, that's right.
38:29
Speaker 1: So we need to get get rid of the stuff
38:31
Speaker 1: that doesn't set of service, and we need to be
38:34
Speaker 1: able to hold on to the things that are important.
38:37
Speaker 1: And if we are scared or traumatized, we need to
38:40
Speaker 1: have appropriate ways of extinguishing that that sort of fear response,
38:43
Speaker 1: otherwise it can lead to lead to sort of issues
38:46
Speaker 1: as well. So I just wanted to make that comment
38:47
Speaker 1: on memory and forgetfulness, but there are other connabinoids that
38:51
Speaker 1: can actually help with memory. But moving on to the munchies,
38:55
Speaker 1: you know, so the classic, the classical munchies and that
38:57
Speaker 1: that is that CB one sort of activation at different
39:01
Speaker 1: parts of the brain, but there's also other you know,
39:04
Speaker 1: things that occur there from a metabolic sort of perspective.
39:09
Speaker 2: So there are.
39:11
Speaker 1: Certain compounds within within cannabis as well that can actually
39:14
Speaker 1: have an antagonistic effect blocking effect at that CB one receptor.
39:19
Speaker 1: And so there are cannabis tools that can help with
39:22
Speaker 1: appetite suppression and improving satiiity and improving sort of you know,
39:27
Speaker 1: blood sugar and arrange of different things there as well.
39:30
Speaker 1: So the endocannabinoid system is integrally linked to metabolism, not
39:35
Speaker 1: just through those those sort of hunger cues, but also
39:38
Speaker 1: through you know effects that they're sort of pancreas and
39:41
Speaker 1: the liver and a range of other areas as well.
39:44
Speaker 1: And it actually looks like that the people in an
39:48
Speaker 1: a base state have excessive production of endocannabinoids, so partly
39:53
Speaker 1: there's a dysregulated endocannabinoid system there, so rather than being
39:57
Speaker 1: low functioning, it's overfunctioning. There's belly an excess amounts of
40:00
Speaker 1: a mega six essential fatty acids through you know, all
40:03
Speaker 1: of the vegetable oils and these types of things that
40:05
Speaker 1: we're getting through our packeted sort of food sources, and
40:08
Speaker 1: so that's putting people into a continual sort of state
40:11
Speaker 1: of being in permanent sort of you know, having the
40:14
Speaker 1: permanent munchies and can.
40:15
Speaker 3: Lead just an interact with leaptin at all, It does, yeah,
40:18
Speaker 3: very much. So that makes perfect sense, right because leapt
40:21
Speaker 3: is involved in in secession of eating as well as
40:24
Speaker 3: volntary physical activity, right.
40:25
Speaker 1: That's right. So yes, that's one of the main main
40:28
Speaker 1: key hormones that it's interacting with to drive the sort
40:30
Speaker 1: of feed forward sort of processes around sort of hedonistic
40:33
Speaker 1: sort of eating patterns that were that were often seeing
40:35
Speaker 1: so Yeah, the modulation of the endocannabinoid system through obesity
40:40
Speaker 1: can be really really interesting potential to treatment for many
40:44
Speaker 1: people too.
40:44
Speaker 3: I can see just from this conversation and from your
40:48
Speaker 3: awesome talk that you give why you are so excited
40:50
Speaker 3: about this, And it must be like, as you get
40:53
Speaker 3: into this, every time you turn over a rock, there's
40:55
Speaker 3: there's like a whole ecal system under there are to explorers.
40:58
Speaker 3: So tell me what are you excited about about cannabinoid
41:04
Speaker 3: research going forward? Because the potential here, given the widespread effect.
41:09
Speaker 2: That the end of cannabinoid system is having on metabolism,
41:13
Speaker 2: immune system, nervous system, it's got to be so exciting
41:17
Speaker 2: the potential research, but also difficult to do and probably
41:22
Speaker 2: going to take a long time, I would imagine.
41:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, and the incentives I guess for people sort
41:27
Speaker 1: of you know, studying naturally occurring compounds that can't be
41:30
Speaker 1: patterned is often lacking when a lot of these trials
41:34
Speaker 1: cost means of dollars. But the thing that really excites
41:38
Speaker 1: me just from cannabis in general, is that we have
41:40
Speaker 1: a complex tool to actually better treat complex, complex conditions
41:46
Speaker 1: or patients with multiple sort of chrimorbidities. Because Cannabis is
41:50
Speaker 1: not a panacea in any ways they perform, and it's
41:53
Speaker 1: not always the most powerful treatment for anyone particular to
41:56
Speaker 1: the condition. But if someone has five different sort of
41:59
Speaker 1: ailments with sleep, they've got pain related issues, digestive issues,
42:03
Speaker 1: you know, anxiety, stress, whatever it might be, it might
42:06
Speaker 1: improve each one of those, you know, ten fifteen, twenty percent,
42:10
Speaker 1: and improvement across multiple domains can actually lead to significant
42:14
Speaker 1: improvements in quality of life. And so therefore you've got
42:17
Speaker 1: less barriers that are stopping people from engaging in a
42:20
Speaker 1: whole range of other health promoting activities, and you're giving
42:23
Speaker 1: them better opportunities to do more exercise, to have more
42:26
Speaker 1: meaningful social connections, to be more engaged with their family
42:30
Speaker 1: and their children, and all of this has you know,
42:32
Speaker 1: it's the combination of reducing the symptomatic burden, but then
42:38
Speaker 1: getting them to engage in a whole range of other
42:40
Speaker 1: activities that naturally support and upregulate their endocanabinoid system and
42:44
Speaker 1: bring joy to their world. They can have long term,
42:47
Speaker 1: profound beneficial outcomes.
42:49
Speaker 3: Getwere effect right, You're talking about a classic Geitway effect
42:53
Speaker 3: where it has an impact that then opens doors or
42:56
Speaker 3: gets to lots of other behavior sorry impacts, that's.
42:59
Speaker 1: Right, you know, like cannabis prescriptions should never be done
43:03
Speaker 1: on their own, you know, just people providing cannabis access
43:06
Speaker 1: I think is completely inadequate. And you know, there does
43:09
Speaker 1: need to be a whole lot of education and support
43:11
Speaker 1: and guidance to create functional and personalized set of goals.
43:15
Speaker 1: You know that people are sort of working towards to
43:17
Speaker 1: better their health than naturally as well. But I also
43:19
Speaker 1: think there's a whole Like I said, there's hundreds of
43:21
Speaker 1: different cannabinoids out there. They all have slightly different effects.
43:24
Speaker 1: We can create more specific and targeted medicines for different conditions,
43:28
Speaker 1: you know, down the track, and reduce the amount of
43:31
Speaker 1: THHC that people are using as well, because even though
43:33
Speaker 1: that's a powerful medicine used in high risk individuals or
43:38
Speaker 1: the wrong amounts, it can be sort of problematic as well,
43:41
Speaker 1: and it's an outlier. It's very much an outlier in
43:44
Speaker 1: the cannabis plan, and that it's the only really intoxicating
43:46
Speaker 1: sort of compound within cannabis. The rest of them are
43:49
Speaker 1: work through so many different sort of mechanisms of action,
43:51
Speaker 1: but they're very generally, very safe and have more side
43:54
Speaker 1: benefits than side effects, which you don't, which is hard
43:58
Speaker 1: for many medical practitioners to think about because we always
44:01
Speaker 1: think of drugs that work across many domains as being
44:04
Speaker 1: dirty drugs or causing a lot of increase sort of
44:07
Speaker 1: side effects, and we just don't sort of see that
44:09
Speaker 1: with cannabis and you know, and other herbal medicines in
44:12
Speaker 1: many ways too.
44:12
Speaker 2: Jim, Sorry, I could continue this for you just because
44:15
Speaker 2: it's so interesting, but I.
44:17
Speaker 3: Know you do have to go. So where can people
44:20
Speaker 3: go to find out more? So, whether it's whether it's
44:24
Speaker 3: a GP.
44:24
Speaker 2: That wants a bit more education around this, or just
44:28
Speaker 2: whether it's individuals, where can they goal to find out
44:31
Speaker 2: more about you and what you do and the Heyday
44:33
Speaker 2: clinic and stuff like that.
44:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, so look in regards to of myself, Yeah, we've
44:38
Speaker 1: got a website hedamedical dot com and that's you know,
44:41
Speaker 1: puts people in contact with our sort of adoptors. But
44:44
Speaker 1: there's also different blogs and information there about around these
44:46
Speaker 1: sort of endocannabinoid system for prescribers. You know, I've put
44:49
Speaker 1: together a lot of prescriber education sort of tools. Like
44:52
Speaker 1: I said, we have our own sort of podcasts that's
44:54
Speaker 1: only allowed to be sent to healthcare professionals because otherwise
44:57
Speaker 1: it's seen as advertising here in Australia. But there are many,
45:01
Speaker 1: many great podcasts out there. Curious about Cannabis is one,
45:05
Speaker 1: you know, it's a US based podcast that I've got
45:07
Speaker 1: a lot of really good information out of myself. There's
45:10
Speaker 1: a couple of North American clinicians that have you know,
45:13
Speaker 1: YouTube videos that are very informative as well. So people
45:17
Speaker 1: like doctor Dustin Sulak and doctor Bonnie Goldstein as well
45:22
Speaker 1: as doctor Ethan Russo they you know, have been working
45:25
Speaker 1: with these medicines for for a long time and are
45:28
Speaker 1: very much holistic in their approach towards prescribing cannabis as well.
45:31
Speaker 1: So look up some of those ogs if you're wanting
45:34
Speaker 1: to get some more information.
45:36
Speaker 3: Awesome, Jim, thanks for your time. That's bloody awesome. It's
45:39
Speaker 3: really opened my eyes to a pretty bloody important system
45:44
Speaker 3: in the human body and the human Brian. So I
45:46
Speaker 3: will be going and exploring a little bit more for one.
45:49
Speaker 3: Thanks Jim. Cheers, Baul, Hope we'll do it again sometimes. Indeed,
45:52
Speaker 3: all right, anyway,