Latest / The Chiro Money Show / 032 | The One-Page Financial Plan: What Actually Belongs On It
Transcript
- Chris: Welcome back to the Chiro Money Show where we're helping chiropractors make better financial decisions so can build stability in finances and a lifestyle that they love. We're your host, Chris Scheele and Scott Campbell, financial planners with Align Wealth. Scott: Excited to be here today, Chris. Chris: So excited, Scott. Scott: You know, we're men of the people, right? We're here for the people, Chris. We need to be here on a weekly basis, in your earbuds, on your drive to the practice, or wherever you listen to us. I'd love to actually run a poll of where people listen to The Chiro Money Show. I'm ⁓ It'd be a short No. I'm sure there's some good ones. Chris: Be sure to pull. Yeah. Scott: We're heading out, we're going out town here in a few days and we're gone for the week so we can't record next week so we're recording this at the very end of our Friday and we're trying to close loose ends here before we're off and away for a week so but we're We're committed to the show. Chris: We're gonna do it and bring the energy. Just like you bring the energy to your daughter's soccer team as their coach and leader, we will bring the energy to the show. Scott: That's right. telling Chris, just coaching U9, my girls, my daughter's soccer team. And I don't know a whole lot about soccer. I don't know the strategy or tactics. I know the forwards need to get the ball down the field and score and the defense needs to stop it. But I don't know how to explain that to U9 girls very well. But we do have an assistant coach that is very tactical, but very soft spoken. So I've just said that you're just going to do the tactics with the girls and the sidelines. I'm just going to run up and down and I'm just going to bring the enthusiasm and the energy that this team needs. And that's all you get for me. It's what we need. I'm all good cheerleader. Good cheerleader. Yeah. I was even hyping up the parents last night, you know, how are we doing over your parents? How are we doing? Feeling good? Bring the energy level up. Chris: You're basically the cheerleader. You're very good cheater, Yeah. Wow. Look at you. Wow, I do not bring that enthusiasm to my U9 soccer team that I coach. Scott: Alright. Sounds like I need to do some coaching for you. Chris: Yeah, maybe on the enthusiasm side. I can bring the skill and the like soccer mind, but not the enthusiasm. Yeah. I do. I want to go back to that poll though, Scott. I bet you there's a lot of people that are listening to us when they're doing zone two work. Scott: Alright. So. Zone 2 work. Okay, you'll first have to explain what zone 2 work is for those that don't understand what that means. Chris: For our non-endurance athletes in the room or that track heart rate systems, zone two heart rate is basically a pace. ⁓ So you're running and you can ⁓ keep you're in zone two. If you can't talk, you're going too hard, you gotta scale back. And ⁓ training wisdom says that zone two should make up about 80 % or so. I'm probably, I mean. Some of our listeners probably gonna push back on that number, but that's what I was told. About 80 % of your training volume should be in zone two. Scott: You don't do that. I don't think you follow that rule, Chris. When I see your Strava, you look like you're going too fast for zone two, but maybe you're just that fast. Chris: Dude, check the heart rate zone, Scott: All right, Chris, are we talking about today? Chris: Okay, we're talking about financial plans Scott: Yeah, when you put it that way, gonna try and make it more exciting than just financial plans. Chris: Kind of, kind of boring. okay, here's, okay, here's the hook, Scott. What if, if we burned the 60 page financial plan that your parents advisor used to do, what would you keep? Is there anything you would pull out of that 60 page binder and keep? Scott: Yep. Yeah, we want to talk about how we could condense a financial plan down to one page. And if we were to have a financial plan on one page, what needs to be on that page? Right? First of all, I have to say, like, when I first got in the industry, the idea of a 40, 50, 60 page document, like I just think of it being in like a leather bound book, like. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Scott: that you'd put up on the bookshelf and you just glance at it and be like, I got a plan. I'm never gonna look at it, but at some point someone gave me this very important document and it's leather bound. So I'm gonna keep that there. It's probably better off as a doorstop, but no one's ever gonna look at it. No one's ever gonna look at it. But there is something important there that can be condensed down into one page, I think, to make it meaningful. Chris: Yeah. Paperweight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you bring up a good point there Scott. I think the the 60 pager leather bound I think pretty much the only value out of out of that is probably the whether you call it a false sense or a real sense of like security or or Confidence is probably the only thing that a client got out of that 60 page Document hey Scott: Yeah. I think it's two things. It's like the confidence that the work has been done, the analysis has been done, the projections are in there. There's all the charts and the graphs and the pie charts and all the things that we see in a 60 page document. I also sometimes think it's like a way for an advised or to show their capabilities by producing something of that magnitude where it's like, look at all the work that we've done here. I have this huge document. It must be very important. There's a of important information, but the one thing we can say about any financial plan, even one page financial plans is that, you know, sometimes the moment they're printed, like it could be outdated, right? Chris: Yeah. Scott: And I say that lightheartedly, of course, right? But our life changes so fast these days. Goals change, objectives change. All the things that tie into our life with money, those all change so fast. put it into a 60 page document when that's gonna be stale dated in maybe six months from now? Chris: yeah a joke in the ⁓ planning that like as soon you as soon as you you complete a plan it's ⁓ it's a wrong ⁓ basically. ⁓ yeah mean struggle with this be honest like there are still parts of me that I'm like yeah should we be delivering an actual document ⁓ as ⁓ Scott: Yeah, for sure. Chris: you know part of a financial planning process. We are we you and I Scott are in agreement now that like financial planning is not the document you receive It is the process of ongoing communication conversations You know diving into different different segments of your financial life and going deep on those and then zooming back looking at the whole pit big picture again Continuously reevaluating and improving over time as life changes unfolds. That's real financial planning, right? Scott: Yep, yeah, for sure. And we'll get into that, I think, here later in the conversation of how we view it. Chris: Yeah. Scott: And like what our process looks like and why that differ. Like it's a bit different from some of the industry where it's like the outcome is to have maybe a series of meetings, but the outcome is going to be here's the document. Here's all the things that, you know, we've analyzed and here's our recommendations. And then it's like, here you go, go implement it. Right. Or we're going to kind of get into kind of how we view that differently. And obviously not to say one's bad or good, but we just view planning from a different lens. Chris: Yeah. Right. For sure. even with all that, I still like, ⁓ know, to go back to the first comment about the 60 page plan, ⁓ still some good that probably came out of that, even if it was just that false sense of security. So I do ⁓ question our own processes and say like, you know, should we be delivering something tangible that people can feel like? Yeah, it's a question. We'll keep coming back to it. Hey. Scott: sure. For sure. Yep. Well, the topic for the conversation today, Kate, was really driven by a lot of this book called The One Page Financial Plan written by author Carl Richards. Chris: Yeah. Scott: I've been a big fan of Carl Richards and his sketches and the handful of books that he's put out over last decade or so. He's just a master in communication of taking complex things and making them very simple to understand. And he really the driver of like, ⁓ you're working with a financial advisor or not. If you even if an individual whether they're sitting on even working with a financial advisor, if we were to boil down everyone believes everyone needs a plan having a plan results into at least having some clarity of where you stand today and where you want to go and what some of the goals and objectives are. So we could boil ⁓ financial plan down to one page. What needs to be on that page to maybe check in on that ⁓ page document every once in a while just as a point of reflection to kind of check in, Calibrate have a good conversation with your spouse and move forward maybe with some minor adjustments Do you agree Yeah, yeah, well I have some ideas of what I'd want to see on that one page document But we probably both know what should be at the top We asked us we asked a pretty big question at the start of all of our kind of initial discovery meetings with our clients Chris: Are you asking me? you putting me on the spot here? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Since you're in the business of holding up things today, I got one too. It's all about the why. Scott: What's that say? Where'd that come from? Chris: Yeah, I don't know. It's been on my desk for 10 years. I don't know where it came from. But yeah, that's exactly kind of what should probably be at the top of the page. It's like, why are we doing this? Why is money important to you? What is the problem that we're trying to solve here? Scott: Okay, all right, we're going to dive into that. Have to start there. What are we doing? Why are we doing this all for? And we're not even talking about goals yet or anything those lines. It's just like, why is important? Right? Call it like a statement of financial purpose. Like what are we doing this? Like ⁓ why are showing up at your practice every day? Why are we trying to earn an income? What are we doing with that? Like what's the life that we're looking to live? What's important to us? Chris: Mm-hmm. Scott: I think it's important that you dive in and dig into that question, which we try and do with our clients when we bring them on, take them through our process. But yeah, what's that first question we ask, Chris? Chris: Yeah. Yeah, why is money important to you? Scott: Why is money important? What do think that most two common things are that people say? Because if we just ask that question, what's the gut reaction that we hear nine times out of 10? Chris: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So it's either freedom of some kind or security. So this sense of either the... Yeah, it's two real feelings that are coming to the forefront, right? It's like this feeling of knowing that I'm going to be okay and having confidence that I'm going to be okay. That one is, you know, primary motivator for a lot of women. Scott: Yeah. Yep. Chris: And then the other side, not always, right, but more often than not it's the women that are having that strong desire. And then the other side it's, you ⁓ want freedom. I want to be able to do what I want, when I want. Scott: Yeah, we hear that line a lot for sure. But the thing to do, at least from our perspective, is be, ⁓ that's the answer, like carry on. But we could go so much deeper than that. need to, you know, we wanna go through this exercise where we're really. Chris: Yeah. Scott: asking that why question another two, three or four more times to really uncover like what's important, right? Chris: Yeah, we gotta go through that example you had. Let me ask you the question and you give me the responses of what this can all too commonly look like. All right, Scott, why is money important to you? Scott: Sure. Sure. Well, I want financial freedom, Chris. Chris: that's interesting. ⁓ So why is financial freedom important to you? Scott: Just leave it there. That's all we need to share. Well, I don't know, like, just so I don't have to worry about money anymore. Chris: ⁓ is it about like worrying about money or not having to worry about money? That's important to you. Scott: Well right now I just feel like I'm worrying and thinking about it all the time. Like sometimes just be like adjusting a patient and part of my brain is just kind of running numbers and thinking about overhead and payroll and my own personal finances and spending and all that stuff. Like it's always on my mind. Chris: why does that bother you? Scott: Why does that bother you all? I feel like I'm just not being very present. I'm not being present. my patients deserve a doctor that's fully present in there and ⁓ like the best he can, where my brain might be elsewhere. Same thing when I get home and I'm with my spouse and my kids. they deserve a present dad and a present father, But I feel like money and my attention around it and the things I worry about are constantly taking my attention and pulling me away. Chris: Yeah. why that presence matter so much to you? Why do you want to be present like that? Scott: Well, because I guess if I look back at my family history, like my dad worked all the time when I was growing up and I never got to see him. He didn't show up to my sporting events and he was just hardworking and I appreciate that about him, but he just wasn't there a whole lot. He wasn't the dad that I needed and I just didn't want to be that guy and I feel like I'm becoming him. Chris: So it sounds like ⁓ real answer is not necessarily financial freedom. Money is important to you because you're terrified of becoming your father and money stress is pulling you in that direction. Scott: You dug deep there, Chris. You dug deep. Chris: We dug deep. Scott: I know that was just an example. I know that was just an example, but that's what we're looking for, right? Like we want to understand like why are doing this? What's the lifestyle that you're looking to build, And sometimes money is such a big component of our life. Chris: Just an example, Just an example, people. ⁓ well. Scott: where it sometimes is driving the bus and gets us off track on the things that are truly important like being a present father and spending time with the family and being present when you're with your patients at the table, all that good stuff, Chris: Yeah. Yeah. And so now once we've identified that, feel like that at the top of the page of you know, the desire is to be present and, you an engaged member in my practice, an engaged leader, engaged father for my kids and however we can kind of put wording to personalize that for the individual. It's just so, so powerful. when we can reflect on that, that purpose with a decision, we have the opportunity to make a good financial decision. And so let me give you, give you an example. ⁓ You keep, role playing here, Scott. You're, you're, you're a chiropractic client here. Okay. So Scott: Okay. Chris: Hey Scott, I've got this great opportunity for you. It's a rental property. It's a fourplex, four different units. You know, there's four different tenants in there right now. Super awesome deal. think you, I think this would be great for you. Are you interested in doing this? You have to manage the tenants and you know, the mortgage is, it mortgage pays for itself, it covers it, but you know, it's a little bit of an older building. There's a little bit of maintenance that might come up, but like you're going to, you're to get like a 12 % ROI. Go for it. Scott: 12 % ROI sounds pretty good. Yeah, it's more than what my advisor's getting me. Sign me up. Yeah. Can't be that hard to manage tenants and that should be okay. I'm sure I can manage that on my weekends and time outside the practice. Should be a big deal. Chris: Yeah, right? Yeah? Yeah? interesting do think that will allow you to be ⁓ or less present when you're in practice or at home with your kids ⁓ going to their soccer games ⁓ Scott: That's point Chris. That's a good point. I don't want to take more time away. I'm already taking more time away from being at the practice so... Chris: Right. Scott: It's tempting though. The driven side of me says, yeah, that sounds like a great opportunity. I have a bit of FOMO if I pass that up. Chris: Yeah, I mean, there's so many tempting opportunities. Yeah. Right. And how many opportunities like this are thrown at our clients every day? Right. Like we know how much ⁓ get marketed to and, ⁓ know, targeted with, with stuff like this. Like ⁓ endless. ⁓ Scott: Yeah. We've had a client single held me to tell us that they a basically because ⁓ a brought it to them and said, hey, like this is a great opportunity, great deal. Didn't really think twice about it and just kind of just emotionally pulled the trigger and said, all right, I'm in, like, I don't want to miss out. So let's do it. And then, you know, six months, a year later, maybe it wasn't the best decision. Like that doesn't serve what I'm trying to do and build in life. It happens to the best of us. Chris: Yeah, for sure, for sure. what we can have that clearly defined ⁓ of financial purpose and meaning of what we're trying to achieve and back a great conversation with some planners that are on your team and want to help you make the best decision for you. Hopefully we can have a better outcome. Scott: So what's next? I have an idea in terms of what I want to see underneath that. Let's call it a statement of financial purpose. Why is money important to us? Whatever you want to call it. What's next? Chris: Yeah. Honestly, I think need some kind of ⁓ of kind of where we stand at the moment, be that kind of net like a very, very high level net worth. ⁓ Scott: Yeah, I would say I would say before we even get there before we even get to like where we stand today, I think that's like maybe third on my list before we get before we get there. I would say we need to get clear. I'm going to use the word goals. What our objectives are. But one thing I love about Carl is he he always says this. He's like, let's just set aside the word goals for the moment and let's just call them guesses. Chris: Okay, one second, one second. Scott: Let's just take a moment to guess where we want to be, what we want to accomplish in the next six months, 12 months, two years, five years, whatever the time frame. think people got caught up with the whole question of like, what are your goals? Like, I know if someone asked me like, are your goals, Scott? Like maybe I could come up with a decent answer, but at the end of the day, they're just guesses. Like our aspirations and things like that, they change, But if we can take that pressure off and just be like, what are some objectives? Where am I guessing where I want to be? on paper first because then we can get to your next point Chris I'm like well all right we have an idea of where we want to go at least some guesses first we first we to find out where we stand today be that a network statement understanding that might be helpful like what do you have what what's the landscape look like what are your assets what are your liabilities that kind of paints the picture in terms of what your opportunities are what your income looks like Chris: Yep. Thank Scott: Where you're splitting up your income right now. that's a good starting point of like, here's where we stand. You have an idea of where we want to go. Chris: ⁓ sure. Yeah, no, I'm glad you brought up the goals ⁓ guesses. ⁓ think, yeah, we need to have something where obviously we have the value piece and like why money is important and that's going to kind of be that overarching framework. then there's going to be individual priorities or goals or guesses that we're trying to attain in the, whether they're short term or long term, that's kind of what sets our trajectory, So then when we know that trajectory, then we can kind of assess, okay, well, where do we stand today? And how close are we? like, you know, are we on, are we, are we, do we have a reasonable outlook at achieving those ⁓ So I think to kind of gauge that it needs to be like a very high level cashflow or net worth or something to like kind of just, you know, paint the picture, bring the awareness of like, where are we today? Scott: Yep. Yep. Yep, for sure. And from there, that leads you to the probably the next natural step would be we'll be just setting some ⁓ items, like what steps do I need to then take to move me a little bit closer to what these goals, objectives, guesses are, What needs to happen? you know, are the action items that we need to take right now that we can immediately start, you know, plugging away and taking some action on, or are they just action items that we know that we'll need to take in the future and we can kind of put them on the shelf for a moment until we, until the time comes. ⁓ Chris: Mm-hmm. Yep. For sure. Cool. What else would you have in there? Scott: think it comes to like long term, like I know this maybe is getting a maybe a touch technical, but I think helpful if I were to have this on my own one page plan ⁓ to have a clear understanding of how my assets are kind of made up and like call that your portfolio, of my net worth and my assets, what's in real estate right now? What do I have invested in the broad markets? What do I have in cash? Maybe if you want to go a layer deeper, what do I have in my various types of accounts versus real estate, RSPs versus what's in corporate cash or what have you. And then the reason why I want to have that is maybe to then tee up the next point on maybe kind of some sort of investment mandate or like some kind of verbiage of here's how I'm invested and why. Chris: Thank Scott: to give you that discipline that when things change in the market, things get scary, or your brother-in-law brings a hot stock tip to you, that you can reflect back to your one page plan and be like, first of all, here's my mandate on how and why I invest the way I do. Here's my current goals and objectives. they help me get to those anymore, anymore efficiently? Is it worth taking on this opportunity? And then back to that top of the page. Is this at all ⁓ to why I'm doing all this? Why money's important to me? Chris: Yeah, love that. Love that. Yep. At the end of the day, I think that one page financial plan that has all of that included in it is a much clearer purpose than the 60 page laminated do-tang binder, whatever. Yep. Yep. Scott: Yep. Yep. For sure. I think that's all I would personally need to have on my one page plan. I don't know if you have anything else to add to that. Chris: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I wouldn't put anything else in there. think is more. ⁓ Scott: Glass is more, for sure. And I know we do this in a bit of a different way, Chris, when we can kind of touch on how we do more module-based financial planning and come back to those different areas of your financial life. But I think in any capacity, if you're working with, like, whether it's us or another advisor and there's a one-page plan put in front of you that's been built, I think it also can give you certain people like, you know, from our perspective, Chris, we're doing all that background analysis with the spreadsheets and the graphs and all that kind of stuff. But we also know that There's a time and place to show that to the client if they're interested in getting into the weeds. But if we can bring it down to a page and be like, here's why money's important, here's our goals and objectives, here's the actions and items that we need to take you to get there, right? Here's where we currently stand. Let's check in on this in six months or a year. And if we need to look at the supporting evidence that's in the other 50, 60 page, we can. But if not, we're clear to move forward on what needs to happen next. Chris: you Yeah, for sure. and I think like just to speak further to the 50 and 60 pages that we're going to kind of ignore right now, it's not that we're ignoring them. We're just choosing not to include them in a document that you're going to get, right? Or a presentation. And the reason being is not that they're irrelevant. You know, we've already acknowledged that they're probably wrong right from ⁓ get go. And going to have to continually refine them. Scott: Yeah. Yeah. Chris: That doesn't mean that they're not important. They serve a purpose, but our eyes, it's not a static purpose, ⁓ It's a dynamic purpose. And that brings us back to that idea of like continual, you know, real financial planning, this continuous conversations three or four times a year, meeting course correcting. We update the you know, software and projections and our assumptions and our spreadsheets. in you know over the course of that whole year that all drives back to that ⁓ kind of summary and like ⁓ direction that we're going but I know again going to like is the is the document really needed like If I think of all the times that I'm in our planning software and I'm adjusting a client's and changing asset values or our ⁓ expected of returns ⁓ when Canada releases their new guidelines or decreasing their payments, changing their mortgage when they renew their mortgage, whatever it is, right? If we did that, if we had to print out a new ⁓ Scott: in good changes. Chris: every time we made a change on the plan, that'd be a lot of, a lot of documents. Yeah. Scott: Yeah. Yeah. I say there's a bit of a waste of trees in my, from my take, ⁓ not because, not because we're trying to save, not necessarily trying to save trees. ⁓ more so that if that document was actually printed out and delivered, is that a value? And that's where we kind of stand up. Like is it that, is that document actually going to be something that is worth referencing at some point in the future? Chris: Yeah, I was going to say that. Right here. Scott: We obviously work with our clients primarily online through screen share, which we actually think is such a great way to communicate where we can pull up a screen, we can pull up their plan, we can basically do live interactive, like we're gonna go right into our planning software, we're gonna show you behind the scenes and show you what you need to see, but after the meeting it's like, all right, you know what you need to know. We know what our next action items are, we don't need to follow up with a large PDF document to say, all right, here's the plan, we're going to change in three or four months from now. Chris: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. there anything else you want ⁓ share about our planning process? what that looks like. Scott: Yeah, I guess good opportunity just to kind of reflect because I think when it comes to financial planning, think... I still think a lot of folks out there might kind of just assume like financial planning is investment management, right? And if you've been a long time listener, the Chiro money show, you probably gather that that's not, that's not our take on financial planning. There's so much more to it than managing someone's investments. whether it be personal cashflow or corporate cashflow, income and tax planning, insurance, you name it, all these different, we kind of call it the ⁓ modules of financial life. I guess our, processes rather than a whole bunch of data collection. and discovery and collecting all these documents and saying, all right, we've done our homework, Mr. And Mrs. Client, here's our 60 page document with 30 recommendations that we needed to go take action on and implement. ⁓ will it there. maybe they'll do some hand holding and get some things done. Our approach is a bit different. It's like, all right, we wanna meet you every, like we're onboarding a client. We wanna see you every couple of weeks. First, we're gonna go through this. We're gonna go through personal cashflow and then we're gonna go through your corporate cashflow and then we're gonna have a meeting strictly based on investments and then one on insurance. And from each of those meetings, it's gonna have its own set of recommendations. and various things that we need to implement, whether it be the client directly, there's homework for them, or we're gonna do it together, we're gonna help you accomplish those things, right? So rather than like one big document with 30 recommendations, we're gonna give you maybe 30 recommendations, but do it more on a module basis, kind of one at a time. Take things across the finish line. Yeah. Chris: So much more manageable. think the two things that stand out to me in that just hearing you talk that through is like, you want 30 recommendations at once? Here's all the things I need you to go do, or do you want five at a time, and do want them spread out over a manageable period of time where you can accomplish them ⁓ you go and ⁓ some momentum? one thing. ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ into the detail on each category, like, so say personal cashflow. So let's say we go through personal cashflow with someone and we make some ⁓ on adjusting their family's you know, let's consolidate accounts. Let's have one joint account maybe. ⁓ And have your, you know, your primary credit card serve this purpose and let's introduce a different vehicle to serve this purpose. make some recommendations there. I think that's way more powerful when you're in real time kind of going through it with the client and going into like a pretty deep level of detail on that and then immediately making the recommendation rather than what I've seen with some financial plans is you know just data collection let me gather all the data and then I'm going to compile all this for you and then I'm going to spit it out and say here here's what I recommend you do. I think, you know, it's just so much easier to implement if you understand a little bit of the reasoning and the why behind it, we don't make recommendations just because we feel like they're good. ⁓ yeah, you should do this because I like that. Again, it all comes back to the why. And so every recommendation that we make is gonna be evidence-based. you know, research backed, like it's gonna, there's gonna be clear evidence to support that, the case for that. And hopefully it's also, know, we've, we've our own personal biases from it. So it's not just like, ⁓ Hey, is what I like. So you should do it. It's. Scott: Yeah, for sure. More collaborative too. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yep. Cool. that was helpful. Shout out again to Carl Richards ⁓ ⁓ Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scott: If you're looking for a really great read, do recommend this book, The One Page Financial Plan by Carl Richards. Awesome read. I it's a great read if someone is truly, I'm a DIYer, I'm gonna do this all on my own. I ⁓ ⁓ or feel like I need a financial advisor planner in my life. Go that book. Excellent read. Chris: Yeah, it's a good one. Well, next time we'll be able to brag about our Hyrox results. ⁓ Scott: That's right, off to Toronto, off to Ottawa, a couple day conference in Toronto, and then hop over to Ottawa, throw down a couple of Hyrox races, and then we'll be back in your earbuds in a few weeks from now. Chris: Yeah, for more Zone 2 work. Maybe. Just making stuff up. Friday afternoon, let's go. ⁓ I need to go for a run. Scott: Whatever you say, Chris. You bet. Get right on it. ⁓ ⁓ guys. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next week. Chris: See you guys.