Latest / On Your Own Time Podcast / Why Your Past still affects you || Even when you think you're fine
Transcript
- speaker-0: I hi Sylvia, you're very welcome to I'm your on time podcast. You're a very, very, very busy lady. So you wear many hats. ⁓ so for anybody who's listening doesn't know you, who are you? speaker-1: everyone, so my name is Sylwia Kuczyna, I'm psychotherapist, dramatologist, lecturer, author, ⁓ mother of two teenagers and wife. I don't know. There's a lot, a lot. speaker-0: Yes, Sylvia, so I actually came across your page and I find your verse f your stuff very, very interesting. And even the phone call we had, we had a little bit of a a discussion. We nearly went into the podcast before we actually w recorded it. so we'll go we'll take you back to ⁓ till ⁓ to your like you became a mum at eighteen and ⁓ you taught me that you've you've achieved not it's people told you you you'd achieve not in life because you you had become a mom so early. ⁓ talk to me about that. speaker-1: Of course, obviously no girl plans a pregnancy at 18, but people who meant to support you and who meant to be there for you, they were not. So I often heard from people, from my parents, my friends, you will achieve nothing. That's it. That's your life just has ended before it even has started. I never, it was hurtful. to hear those things, but I never took it to heart. never said that, yes, that's my truth. That wasn't my attitude at all. If anything, it was wait and see. If you think like this about me, you obviously don't know me. So basically that's, I took it from there. When Adam was born, he was my motivation. He was the reason why I wanted to achieve so much and why I wanted. ⁓ to prove them wrong basically. He's fantastic. speaker-0: That's great. And ⁓ so what would you say now t ⁓ what would you say to now an eighteen year old who's who becomes a parent and they're going through the same situation, what would you say to speaker-1: Keep believing in yourself because pregnancy is not the end of the world. Pregnancy is not your life ending. Pregnancy could be a window of opportunity for you to look at your life from a different lens, from a different perspective. It can be your motivation, but it's really up to you. People will have perceptions of you. People will be judging you. People will have their own opinions. You don't have to listen. It's not, you're not their opinions. You're not, don't owe them anything. This is your life. You're in charge. speaker-0: That's a great point, ⁓ Sylvia, because we always hear on social media and see on social media hate and we talk about people not taking chances because they b they care what other people think of them and and what they might say. especially from your day to day job. Do you see much of that kind of in people? speaker-1: Absolutely. ⁓ Loads of judgment, loads of fear of being judged. But the problem is much more deeper than just being afraid of being judged. Usually it comes from back to your childhood when you have been constantly made the scene that you're not important, you're not significant. You're there just to meet someone else's expectations. It's very difficult, it's frightening to be constantly rejected because that's what it is. When we feel judged, we automatically take it as being judged or something wrong with us. So we make sure we stay safe. We stay in the loop of safety, whereas I meet your expectations, tell me what you want me to be and I will be exactly that. So it will be safe for me to exist. So it's not... It's not as simple as being afraid of being judged or someone else has a different opinion about us. It's much more deeper than that. It's a deep childhood wound that most of people will have. speaker-0: It's very interesting as well because I I look back on your y a lot of your social media and you're on about trauma and is does trauma always come from childhood or kinda happen throughout your your life as you grow older? speaker-1: ⁓ no, you of course can happen at any stage of your life, but there is different type of trauma. Like there's a relational trauma, which that trauma or developmental trauma and those types of trauma will always happen in the childhood. It's based on the relationship with your parents, with people that take care of you. And if there was neglect, abuse, ⁓ you know, your needs were not met or the roles were reversed when you... as a child you had to act like a parent to your parents, you had to manage your mom's emotions and you had to manage dad's moods. Something like that doesn't just... One event like this will not traumatize someone. But if it's for years and it's so subtle and it causes the disconnection from who we are and... taking care of other people becomes our role, becomes our identity. That's where we say this is developmental or this is relational trauma because we don't see ourselves. We don't really have separate identity from what we know, what we have to do in ⁓ childhood to survive basically. But of course, answering your question, trauma, PTSD can happen also in adult life. speaker-0: Yeah. So the reason I brought it up so early in the conversation is because we're gonna touch on this more bit more in the later in the later c in the conversation. But ⁓ I wanna take you back to you first study law. So what ha what happened there? What what made you make the change or speaker-1: long story. ⁓ Not really. yes, psychotherapy wasn't always on my agenda. When I was a child, I promised to God that if I will survive my childhood, I will help to save people's lives. That was my goal. And back then I was about six or seven. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I said the only role that I knew that was saving lives was a doctor. So I said, will be a doctor. And that was my goal for a long time until I came to Ireland with no English, came to secondary school and I never ever felt so stupid in my life. I could not communicate at all. People were talking to me and I just did not understand what they were saying. So horrible feeling. speaker-0: That must be difficult though. speaker-1: It was, it was, but part of my identity kind of clapped, you know, I had to find myself again. And then when Adam was born, I was like, okay, what will I do? Like, want, obviously I want to be a doctor and get the points, you know, broken English. So then law happened, like I was like, okay, I have enough points to get, to do the law. I said, law is also, you know, I was. fantasizing then about me helping people, know, women empowering women and solving people's problems. And I'm like, hey, I will still be helping, you know, in some, to some extent. And I finished that. I worked in solicitor office in Limerick. It was not for me. ⁓ The emotional side definitely was, was messing. yeah. So that's basically, then started, I Googled like, you know, I think I Googled, ⁓ psychology and then the course started like in, so let's say that was Saturday and then on Monday, the course was starting. was like, ⁓ Jesus, like I have literally one and a half day to apply. Okay, let's go for it. So basically that was it. speaker-0: was probably the best thing that happened here probably had no thinking time, just go for it, jump in. speaker-1: Yes, yes, no time to think really. It's one more idea and then you do it, that's it. speaker-0: Yeah, no good, good. At the age of twenty six we talked about you changed careers. How frightening was it to walk away from a path that you've already invested your life in it? So you've already invested in two college to go do law. But how frightening was it? speaker-1: To start college or to change the career? No, it wasn't. That's where you have to ask yourself, are you happy where you are? And if not, why not? You spend loads of time at work. It's a huge part of our lives. It's a huge part of who we are and how we live. It affects our mood, it impacts our relationships outside of the work. So if you're not... speaker-0: Changed career, yeah. speaker-1: happy if something is missing, your life belongs to you. If you're not going to make that decision, who else will make that decision for you? So it wasn't difficult. It was just about. Even gay, like, okay, I'm going to change the decision. Like, you know, I'm going to change the career, but is that the right decision? Is that going to be the decision? Is that going to be the good fit for me then? But then you will never know unless you do it. speaker-0: Yeah, I love that because I taught my previous episode I taught me ⁓ I talked about my story and I've been thinking about podcasts for years and people always said, ⁓ you've a stammer, you're dyslexic, you're dis and you won't you wouldn't suit ya and I said to myself a few months ago, I was like, I'd rather I'd rather say I tried it than look back at ten years' time and say I'd never tried it. I regret not trying it. speaker-1: Exactly. And that's the mindset that you need to have. Exactly. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, so s so do people stay in c we talked about s t not really a fright but not staying in in jobs that you don't like, but do people sometimes stay in careers or relationships or situations that they're unhappy and simply because they're invested too much to change? speaker-1: Of course they do. Of course they do. It's not... They do stay in places that they're not happy about. you know, psychotherapy is all about that, finding out why, finding out what is it that is stopping us from making those changes. You know, sometimes it could be like finances, but that's a huge aspect in our everyday life. know, someone becoming, you know, someone is depending on the other person or Relationships that are hard to but we still feel like we can't leave. Something unconsciously is happening for us when we feel like we can't change. We can't do it. It's not simply just, don't like it. I will change it. It's never like that. We need to look at our support network. We need to look at how do we see ourselves? Like, do we see ourselves as capable people? we, do we believe that we can do it? And then. Maybe unconsciously we try to repeat our childhood patterns that was never resolved and we will stay until we feel like this has been changed. So it's never as black and white. I'm not happy. Let's just leave. speaker-0: Yeah, no, that's good and like it's mad talking to you like 'cause I can have I can be closed minded at times and you're like blowing up my some my my mind. There's a lot of stuff you're saying. ⁓ but it it it makes a lot of sense. It does make a lot of sense to people. Like ⁓ I know a lot of people I I've known over the last couple of years and they're not happy in their jobs and like especially my I my current job I work in the defence forces, but like a lot of people are going from the defence forces to the guards or their prison service and and then they're realising they don't like it. And we're talking about jumping careers, but the same kind of positivity and they're saying, Well if it if well it's a a job, if I'm not enjoying my job, I'm not gonna stay in it. ⁓ so it is a great point. ⁓ so what what was what so what was psychotherapy? So what what made you think of that down that road I know there's many paths you can go down, but what made you psychotherapy? speaker-1: It's my curiosity about people. I just want to, I never look at someone and judge them by their behavior. I see their behavior like this is their language. So they responding to something like why do they behave the way they do? it's, I'm always looking for a person behind the symptom, behind the behavior. So what made you to... do this or what made you to believe that this is the only option that you had. So it's, it's, it's really my curiosity about the patterns that, you you say that even today that sometimes we stay in relationships that are not working for us. We know logically something isn't good for us and we still feel like we can't change it. can't do it. So psychotherapy, allows me to find out why. Psychotherapy, the unconsciousness of someone's behavior or someone's belief patterns, emotions, it allows me to see people underneath. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people's souls. It's very deep. I love it. speaker-0: ⁓ do ⁓ would you ⁓ would you would you say assess anybody you're in your company? So if you're meeting your friend for coffee, would you have a chat like which is ⁓ what's going on today? I know you're I know I know there's something going on with you today. Would you be able to w was that the way you are? speaker-1: People often presume that this is the way I am, but I'll be very honest, I could not care less. speaker-0: Brilliant. No. Brilliant. speaker-1: I don't, I know I do want to have fun as well. Like I'm quiet, chatty and bubbly person like, know, privately. Sometimes in my, you know, with the session, during the sessions too. But no, I don't tend to go like, ⁓ no, like this person is like, okay, this is in your office. I don't, I don't care. To be honest, I literally don't. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I feel like someone is not my person, like I will not make effort, but I'm not diagnosing, I'm not asking why, what is wrong with that person. I don't do that. But then having said that, my children, my brother, my parents, you know what? So that's a different story when they ask for help. It's a different story. I don't do it voluntarily. But when they ask, sometimes it's difficult to say, it's okay, you go to somewhere else. speaker-0: I'm too busy today, I'm having a coffee. I'm having a coffee, leave me alone. ⁓ yeah, so was there anything in your own life that made you curious about what people think, feel or behave in a way? So you talk about you always wanted to help people, but was there anything in your own life that you always that that made you kind of that way? speaker-1: My whole childhood. If I be very honest, it's my whole childhood. ⁓ Yeah, I was praying to survive my childhood. It wasn't the easiest ⁓ experience. It wasn't the easiest time of my life. ⁓ Sometimes I feel I only started to live really and coming out of my survival mode when I was 18, when I actually gave birth to my son. speaker-0: So becoming a parent actually gives you ⁓ since I I became a dad, it kinda opens your eyes to a lot more and you're aware of a lot more s in your own surroundings. It's mad. So I like speaker-1: Sometimes becoming apparent it wakes us up but also opens up old wounds. speaker-0: It also stresses you ⁓ out. So you're also a lecturer and an author of three books. What made you want to teach and write as well as ⁓ work with people directly? speaker-1: Probably I always wanted to make an impact. That was always something. In me, maybe, psychotherapy is definitely my passion. I absolutely love what I do. I don't feel like I'm working, ever. Don't get me wrong, I do work. I don't just have my clients or my patients like, was your day? Doesn't look like that. I do work, but I love it. I love it to the extent where, like, I... Actually, no, maybe I just don't like limits. I'm not the kind of person who likes limits in a way. I like to push myself out of my comfort zone and books. know, say that sometimes they say that you have a book in you. I've always been told that. I always write diaries. always was writing, not podcasts, but articles. It was always in me. I love. writing so sometimes putting your own thoughts into book it's it's nice speaker-0: No, that's great, it's great. ⁓ so does becoming a psychotherapist mean that eventually you have your all your own stuff figured out? Or do therapists have their own struggles as everybody else? speaker-1: Of course we do. And that is the presumption that most of people will have, that people, know, psychotherapists, will have their shit together, is my language. But it's illusion. It's no such a thing because life, life happens, you know? And if, if a therapist will want you to feel like they have their shit sorted out, it automatically means that they're putting themselves above the person they sit in front of. That's not, don't get me wrong. You need to feel like your therapist can hold you, can hold the space for you that will, that you will be heard and seen without your therapist constantly talking about themselves. Like that's not okay. But therapists also have private life. They have their own families. have their own family drama. Like there's always drama in the family. So there's always things. happening in the background. So it's never like this is just the perfect model person who has never any problems, never any emotional breakdowns, never cry. That is just illusion. speaker-0: Yeah, no, it's it's good. It's interesting it's interesting because when I was thinking of this I was like dude like they're taking all everybody else's problems into them and listen to it. Like there has to be eventually some some sort of okay, I need to breed myself. speaker-1: And it is, it is, even it's interesting because recently my son even told me, he asked me to help him out with something. And I did, we spent hours talking and he says, mom, how do you do this? I mean, how do you do this? You have your own life, you have us, you have that, you have your students, you have your patients. How do you do this, mom? I said, I don't know. I like it. I like it, but I do then take some time for myself when I don't answer my phone. I'm in my pajamas all day and I just don't want to. I'm not existing to the world. speaker-0: Yeah, no I think you have to have that and everybody must have that. ⁓ the word trauma is everywhere on social media now. Do you think we use sometimes use it that word too loosely? speaker-1: Of course. And I love that you mentioned that because... It became this modern world that it sounds cool. Like everyone is traumatized and I'm just, no, I have an exam and ⁓ my God, that exam has traumatized me or I had a driving test and this person does traumatize me. It's not being stressed. Your exam has stressed you, but it hasn't traumatized you. There's a massive difference because trauma is. Trauma happens when there is a massive disconnection from our identity, from who we are, when we don't have connection to our emotional side of things, when sometimes we disassociate from reality. It's massive. it's, you're absolutely right. I do believe that trauma is used too lightly. speaker-0: Yeah, no, it's good. is because everywhere on social media, even if you go on TikTok or any of that stuff, and if you even if you type in trauma, like is hundreds of pages come up, I'm traumatized this, I'm traumatised that. And my my reading is exact same as you. ⁓ everybody goes through s stress, diff work driving driving to work sometimes in traffic. But trauma's a different thing. That's that's internal in my opinion as well. so we talked a small bit about ⁓ childhood. So how much can a childhood experience affect the adult? that we become what it was realizing it. speaker-1: Do you want me to give you a number in the percentage? speaker-0: What is it up? Is it? speaker-1: Well, if you would look at, you know, like I'm psychodynamic, psychotherapist, so I can only speak from my own belief, but I do believe that child whose childhood experiences have 100 % impact on how we are in adulthood, who we are as adults, our belief system, how we relate to people, how we see relationships, how we see... friends, everything, our job, even the job that we pick. You know, like it's already tells me something about you. Like, you know, you work in the army, you say it. So you like obviously power, you like order, you like when things don't really surprise you, like you probably like control. So that gives you a sense of safety. speaker-0: Yeah, so I I majority of people I kind of from my area was I d I I left school after my junior start originally. So the only job that we were always told was, ⁓ you you don't have a leave in search, you need to go to the army. So like everybody was just going that way. But like the good thing about the army is now th they're bringing you back for to college. Like so I I have I have stuff sort of done through Limerick and Carlow and which is it's made me a better person. ⁓ but at that time when I was young young like it was there was no option. It was literally you've no leaving start, go to your go to the army. And that was coming off from my grandparents and my uncles that were in the job, so and you just nailed it on the head. speaker-1: It It always comes with generators! speaker-0: Yeah, no, and and that's the debate thing about all them jobs. Like if you all like we all talk there's many people in the army that have grandfathers, fathers, all that stuff, relatives in the army, ⁓ which is a very, very good point you you know on the head. ⁓ the biggest thing I see around people is like ⁓ is addiction. So drug addiction, ⁓ or drink addiction, if is f if the kids are around it at such a young age, they tend to not all of them but ⁓ they tend to be go down the same route. speaker-1: Again, that's when we talk about trauma. That's where we talk about generational trauma. You know, it's not always... We see what we, you know, what, what was surrounded, but you know, what we have been surrounded by, but it's also who we identify ourselves as. You know, every child will have something that we call unconscious loyalty. So we might know that the parents hurt us or that they were not there for us, but we still have that longing for love. for to be accepted, to be loved, for them to see us in some way or another. So sometimes when we have tried everything and it's never worked, what we will do unconsciously, we will go and repeat their own path. So maybe, look mom, look that. You didn't see me when I didn't take drugs. So now I'm just like you. Will you accept me? Look, we're the same. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I a hundred percent I agree. A hundred percent agree with ya. ⁓ can someone having a loving childhood still carry experiences that affect them later in life? speaker-1: Yes, they will have very secure attachment styles. speaker-0: Yeah, no, it it it is. It is very ⁓ that the the reason I w I wasn't gonna ask you that question because I knew it kinda tripped from the previous question. ⁓ but having a loving childhood and like we always hear of people have loving childhood. ⁓ like I had a person on my podcast recently and they were I had a great I had a great living, a great childhood and it went down the the road of drugs. ⁓ so that's the reason kinda saying it. Can you grow up and have all the love and support from your parents, your family, and then go down the wrong road? speaker-1: Well, your previous guest is the proof that it can happen. But again, I wouldn't say it's a black and white answer because often I will ask my patients, how was your childhood? What kind of answer do think I'm always getting? Fine, grad. There was never any problem. you know, dad was working, mom was cooking, everything was fine. I had the roof, had electricity, we had hot water, no problems. But as we talk and as we get to unfold how it was really, after a few months we might realize actually, maybe it wasn't as great as I thought it was. So obviously some of the needs were unmet. I don't know what needs were unmet, but obviously something wasn't working. speaker-0: Yeah, and ⁓ that's good. And the the next one I was trying to think of was can ⁓ can understand where a behaviour comes from become an excuse for it? Or should understand lead to responsibility? speaker-1: That's a very, actually very good question. Very good point. Because understanding is the first step. But when we being stuck in understanding and we don't process, we don't go and connect with the emotions. We don't do the work basically. ⁓ I know. And that's it. You're stuck. You're exactly where you are. And then it is, then becomes an excuse. Then we become. It becomes like another avoidance almost like, you know, I know I don't need any more help because I understand where I'm coming from. like, okay, you understand. And like, what did you take from it? Where's the other? No. So absolutely understanding ⁓ can be used as avoiding the process. speaker-0: So we we hear about inner child. So what does the inner child actually mean without all the social media language around it? speaker-1: Hmm, very good. I actually did the, book is on the inner child and trauma. So it's our emotion, it's our inner self. It's our emotional part of ourselves, much more younger part when we remember things. When logically we might not have the access to like the memory of what was happening, but emotionally we do remember. Sometimes this is the reason why we might have a strong reaction to something without realizing that we have it and we don't even know why we have it. Because we've been triggered without realizing that we have been triggered. We might have strong response to someone, to something, without having the connection to understanding why we have such a strong reaction. So the inner child part of us remembers. speaker-0: ⁓ the reason I asked you that is because in the form where they were filling, you have you wrote down your book in it and I did a small bit of research into it. And it actually isn't I've heard people say, ⁓ the inner i this brings the inner child out with me. ⁓ but I didn't know really what that meaning was. I often heard about the balloon underwater. So this is a bit of a long-winded question though. Okay, so ⁓ I've heard difficult memories and emotions described like trying to hold a balloon underwater. You can keep pushing it down, but eventually it wants to come back up. Is it a good way of explaining what can happen when we suppress things? speaker-1: Hmm Yes and no, because suppression happens in a much more subtle way. At the beginning, when we're starting to suppress our emotions, it's easy. We don't need much energy to actually keep suppressing. There's loads of space, so we keep suppressing. And it's fine, but then those suppressed memories, those suppressed difficult emotions, they don't just disappear. And all of the sudden, then we feel some kind of, ⁓ it's not as easy to keep it under control. So then when it gets too much, then it's like the balloon under the water. Absolutely. But at the beginning, it works. This is why so many people actually lives in their own head and they don't connect with their body because the emotions are in the body. So they keep thinking. internalize, they intellectualize. It's just, I will be thinking, I will create a plan, I will know what to do and I'll just go through my life like this without paying much attention to emotional side, which is what does that do to me? How does that affect me? We don't pay attention. what happens usually then is that Our head gets too busy, our mind is constantly running, and then we're starting to feel anxious. Shit, something isn't working here. Like, why can I not know? Now my body is doing another thing, I don't like it. My head is too busy. Like, you lost. speaker-0: So what actually happens psychology when someone triggers an old emotion or memory? speaker-1: Usually in that moment we acting from that place when that situation happened for the first time. let's say you're torsified, you've been triggered and you're responding like you're fine. You don't feel like an adult. You don't responding from an adult. You, you're responding from much more younger, much more vulnerable part of you. speaker-0: Can something that looks tiny to everybody else triggered? Something that's small to me, can I bring up memories in you? speaker-1: Absolutely. we, our first language is language of symbol. So it's never, it was never words. It's object. It's pictures, it's symbols. So what might trigger us is not even us. It could be a smell. It could be someone how they behaved in that situation. It brings us right back. to when we didn't feel safe, to when we felt hard, when we felt vulnerable. And for someone else who might not have the same experience, they will look at like, what is going on? There will be no connection. no. it's, triggers are very subjective. They're very intimate. But it has a huge window to your inner world. What is going on for you? speaker-0: Yeah, 'cause I I've often heard what's wrong with him? That's only small. I d I didn't mean it, ⁓ that was only minor. I and I also keep saying to them, especially in my my job my own job I mean at the moment, like if if I hear anybody saying saying something that's which I have seen in the past, say something, and I pull him aside and they say, You can't talk to him like that. Well ⁓ sh I'm only messing, he don't have the money messing. No no. How do you know that might be messing to you but it's not messing to them? ⁓ so it is a good excellent point. And there like the reason I'm asking this job is because a lot of asking these questions is because a lot of these questions I've come across in in my own my own particular life in terms of my jobs, my ref I do refereeing as well and the army. ⁓ men and we talked about this on the phone, ⁓ Sylvia, so men, I'm grand and not asking for help. I'm probably guilty for this. I'm my biggest thing is I I anybody asks me ⁓ what's up with you today, ⁓ grand, don't worry about. So that's probably a norm for you, is it? speaker-1: I see that in men often, but... Think about men in social aspect. For many decades, if not centuries, you've been told men don't cry. You've been told get on with it. It's not a big of a deal. Don't cry. So if we would look at the social expectations, men were never expected to show emotions. In fact, for you, it was never allowed. You never got permission. to allow yourself to feel. The only one emotion that was socially acceptable for men was anger. So, when you ask some, if you ask man, how are you? I'm grand. Sometimes actually what's underneath, it means I don't have the permission, I don't have the support, I don't feel safe to talk about my emotions. So it says, I'm grand. Men don't always say, I'm tired. They would say I'm fine, you know, or I just need a drink or they will not say I'm stressed if something is really stressing me. Like you don't even allow yourself to say it because your identity, man's identity is what? To be strong, to be the providers, to be the macho who will always take care of everyone else. So for a man who holds that identity and then is expected to talk about emotions, we don't know or men don't know how will that impact their identity of being strong? I think that in the health room all the time. speaker-0: I think of men as well, I think they're they're afraid to put the burden on other people. They're like okay, they enough gun on their life, they don't listen to me. speaker-1: Yes, but that also comes with men's capacity and their identity. You want to be perceived as the strong one, especially, for, you say, the high-pressure jobs, you the army, the guards. You are seen as someone who always, you know, from the public to rely on. You're the one who brings the support. You're the one who holds the space for everyone. Like, you make people feel safer. So there's high expectations in that and all of the sudden how someone who has that expectations on them that you're the one who helps, now is actually asking for help. How does that fit? It doesn't. speaker-0: Yeah, 'cause it rolls into my next question, 'cause my next question was can s can somebody become so used to dealing with everything themselves? And receiving help actually means uncomfortable, they're uncomfortable. speaker-1: Absolutely. Because it can be seen as too risky to their identity. It can be too risky. Okay, if I'm asking for help, who am I? Am I still this strong person or am I weak? Like for men, usually men hate to feel that you're weak. But again, it's not something that, it's just the expectation that was put on you, like what you should and should not be doing or saying. So for men it's always easier to express anger. You know, anger, it's like a protection. speaker-0: Yeah, no, no, no, definitely. A hundred percent. ⁓ sometimes trying to control and manage everything yourself can look micromanagement to other people. Could it sometimes come from an anxiety, pressure, or difficult trusting others people to take the load? speaker-1: Absolutely, but also in your list you also forget comes from safety. When we control, who has? There's no unpredictability. So nothing can surprise you. You're in charge, you're in control, but that means you create safety. Safety for yourself, safety for everyone around you. It's good. It's running smooth. So when something runs smoothly, we're safe. speaker-0: So when does being independent and capable become unhealthy? speaker-1: That's a very good question. And I alternate with that question. speaker-0: No. Well is a good question 'cause speaker-1: It is, it's when we don't allow people to come in and to our life. It's when we use independence. as a shield from other people. It's like, okay, I'm independent. I will do everything on my own. I don't need help. But then we isolate ourselves. We don't allow ourselves to experience maybe help. And how would that actually feel? We don't allow ourselves to experience something different because how we connect asking for help is probably being judged, being rejected. So. becoming independent or not trusting others can be much of a shield of not allowing ourselves to connect with other people. speaker-0: Yeah, no, definitely. ⁓ do we need to stop simply telling men talk more and start asking why some men don't feel safe and comfortable talking in the first place? speaker-1: Of course. Imagine if you'd be just demanding, why are you not talking? to me. And for decades you've been hearing, you can't talk. Just get on with it. So it's like we're jumping from all or nothing. It doesn't work like that. If we want men to normalize vulnerability, if we want men to normalize feelings for themselves, we do need to create space where they feel like they can open up. rather than just talk to me, how was your work? Tell me about your feelings. Maybe it's like when your man says, ⁓ I'm just tired, had a tough day at work. What it would be like, you know. to dig a little bit more about why are you tired? What's going on? what maybe, or even sometimes naming the emotions for your man. You know? Like if he asks, I'm fine, I'm grand. I don't want to talk about the stuff, they at work. Maybe you're just tired. do you need? speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. That's brilliant. so the last one and kind of the wrong main kind of health. ⁓ as a psychotherapist, what do you wish men understood understood about their mental health before they ever reach your door? speaker-1: that asking or coming to a therapy doesn't mean you're weak. That asking for help doesn't take your manhood away from you. In fact, in my eyes, I see it completely different because you need to have loads of courage to sit with me for an hour. Not that I'm scared, but you know. And you don't have to wait until your whole world laughs and you feel like you no longer can manage. Like you don't have to wait till everything's destroyed or when you feel like you are destroyed. You can come and talk. Sometimes therapy is not about fixing or making massive changes. Sometimes it's about allowing yourself to feel like you're being held. and hurt. Yes, speaker-0: No, definitely, definitely. ⁓ so I'm gonna move on to a small bit the the next topics mistakes, overthinking and self forgiveness. ⁓ just a small bit on this. So bit of background. I've refereed matches where I've made decisions and driving home long roads from all around the country and I always think about it. I'm always thinking about the whole way home if I made a bad decision. Or if I have to know if I haven't made a bad decision or not. I even stopped on the way home to look at decisions again because I needed to know whether I was right. I only really come to understand re ⁓ recently that mistakes are normal parts of being a human and sometimes you're not going to find an answer that makes everything okay. So I kind of suffer small bit in terms of overthinking a small bit and and no no and I need to know the answer. I have to know if I'm right or wrong. So why does the brain sometimes refuse to leave a mistake alone? speaker-1: Okay. you allow me. What you just shared, it's not really about you. say that it's overthinking. It's not overthinking. It's about you not allowing yourself and normalizing that you too can make a mistake. So I will bring you back to your past experiences. What was happening to you when you made the mistake? speaker-0: I I don't think it's probably speaker-1: What did you hear when you felt like you made a mistake? speaker-0: No, I I think it's more around like when I referee that I'll referee at decent level and you're it's every mistake sh is on social media, everything's on T V, everything's on so like knowing that you're right i it it's for me it I need to know I'm right or I need to know I'm wrong before I get home. Like if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I learn from my mistakes, but I have to know. ⁓ I think only Kem, I'm I'm about sixteen, seventeen years in the League of Ireland panel and It only came in then probably in that period of time that I need to know I'm right. And it probably has rolled into my own of proper life now. speaker-1: So Declan, you take loads of responsibility with that one decision that can impact many people and not only the players, but even, you know, the fans of the theme. it's loads of responsibility. So when we make a decision and we know there is hundreds of people behind this decision that will impact them, obviously you will. If you care, will not want to make a mistake. Then you feel like you do want to know. So that's not necessarily a bad thing. It only means you're a good person in the right place. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, it is. It is. The reason I say that is because I put I put myself out here and saying that because I I know a lot of people I'm talking to have the same situation and and it's obviously it's more trauma traumatic if you say in terms of what they're dealing with. Like mine is touch wood is no life or death. Mine is in relation to a football game. ⁓ but a lot of theirs is serious more serious. ⁓ yeah, so How do we ⁓ generally accept a mistake, particularly when mistakes affect somebody else? You kinda touched on it there. speaker-1: So it's what I said before, so if we are afraid that we will make a mistake or that we have made a mistake, you have to go back and try to figure it out. What, what mistakes means to you? How do you approach mistakes? What, what happens when you make mistakes? You know, because if it's a mistake of I put too much salt into the soup and that's the end of the world. You know, like what is going on? ⁓ do you need to have the perfect soup? You you chop the soup and you open the noodles, you know, be fine for one day. You know, what is mistake? What, again, we will come back to the language of symbolism. What mistakes symbolize? What does that mean? speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ the next one I want to touch on is ⁓ we hear like I do a lot of Martin runner, I know a lot of friends that do running and they always say the same kind of t stuff. We hear runners say, I don't run for my body anymore, I run for my head. What is actually happening when we're exercising? speaker-1: That's actually another good point because exercise can be very healthy. We're not only our brain, it's like basically we have to connect with our, look after our body. But that's what I said when I was talking about the anxiety, when we live in our head and we disconnect from the body, exercise becomes a shield, becomes an avoidance, becomes something that, you know, it's our escape from ourselves. So excessive, you know, exercises or training all the time because we try to escape from ourselves, that becomes a problem. speaker-0: Yeah, because I it's a great point because I I've I've talked to loads of people. That's great for a headspace. Is this great for a headspace? Yes, it is a great for headspace, but I mentioned in a previous podcast that's like putting a plaster over a wound. And keep putting a plaster over a wound. speaker-1: Exactly. And that wound is going to keep bleeding because there is something going on with that wound, you know, it's not healing properly. speaker-0: Yeah, no, I've a lot of questions. I've we're covering a broad topic if you kinda understand so we're from one one extreme epic. So why do couples sometimes become teammates raising ⁓ raising children rather than being ⁓ being partners or in a relationship anymore? speaker-1: simple question is because there is I don't, well, I actually don't think there's a simple answer to your question. Many aspects. But the person that comes to my head right now is the measurement of the roles. The, you know, when the baby comes to a family, there's always, newborn always bring some kind of crisis, crisis to our identity, crisis to our roles, more responsibilities, more financial pressure, sleep deprivation. Then we get lost in all of that new role of becoming a parent and we forget to be Sylvia, we forget to be Declan, we forget to be Amy, we forget to be Kevin. We're just parents. So when we are just a parent, we don't think about our own needs. We don't see the other person as someone that we are attracted to. We see them as... someone who needs to help us survive this situation, you know, and then the conflict will begin when we are being triggered by each other. We might have need that we don't know how to communicate those things. And the conflict, and we just feel like we're going separate ways. speaker-0: So that's good, yeah. So a small bit about yourself. So the last one, Sylvia as a mum ⁓ as a wife, a mum and a person. Okay, so you've told me you've been married for seventeen years and you named your husband as the p person who inspires you most. So what is about him it still inspires you? speaker-1: It's his determination of he never gives up. When he puts his mind to something, he will always do it, but he often do it not by constantly pushing. And that's probably my job. You know, keep going no matter what. He's like, doesn't work, another world, another road will work. So he's chilled by, you know, in that, but... Also, he's not afraid of stopping me sometimes and say, whoa, come down here. you're not all of that. Like you still have, you know, there's still more of you. it's, ⁓ he never allowed me to become just a mother. Basically. always was telling me, okay, you know, you're still my wife. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ brilliant, brilliant. So you mentioned his ambition, loyal ⁓ loyalty, support and trust. Which one is which one of them most ⁓ matter most? Ambitious ambition, sorry, loyalty, support or trust. speaker-1: Loyalty for me is a big one. So for me, him being loyal and not ⁓ in every aspect loyal to my, you know, where we got my head, like we were what? I was 18, 19 nearly when we got my head. So we were very young when we got my head and we were in a way we were growing up together. Like we were maturing together, you know? ⁓ And sometimes I would make decisions that they were not great decisions, you know, and he still was by my side. He was still, look, we learn from that mistake, we'll move, we'll pass it. It's that kind of loyalty as well. It's just, he never judged me or made me feel like I'm not competent or if I'm not inadequate, you know, like he never made me feel that way. speaker-0: No, brilliant. ⁓ people once told the eighteen year old ⁓ you that your life was over. If you could put that woman, a young woman, in a chair opposite you now, let her see the life you've built, what would you say to her? speaker-1: I feel like this is a bit of a therapy now. speaker-0: You're teaching me from your podcast and your videos. speaker-1: Now you're using me as my weapon! speaker-0: Ha ha ha. speaker-1: No, what I would tell her, I'm very proud of her. And I'm happy that she never gave up on herself, even though people around her has. Situations when she felt she was so weak and vulnerable, that was actually her biggest strength. Those moments when she felt like she was going to give up, she never, but those situations, her weakest moments were her biggest strength. speaker-0: Yeah, Sylvia, ⁓ we're gonna finish off with one more question. I finish off the d this one with the ⁓ to say finish off every episode with the same question. Sylvia, after everything you've experienced, what does on your own time mean to you? speaker-1: It means to trust the process. It means that everything happens in their own time and you just be either the witness or you'll be the main character of driving that. So on your own time, trust yourself. Trust that this is your journey, this is your life. Everything happens for a reason, no matter how traumatic. It has another end. You just have to find it in your own time. speaker-0: Brilliant. Brilliant. So anybody who's watching us or listening to us now and ⁓ it's in a bad situation or going through anything in in their life, follow Sylvia on her Instagram page. I'll share everything on my YouTube panel, ⁓ channel and my social media channels. She hers her her information is very, very positive and ⁓ can help someone. Sylvia, thanks very much for everything. speaker-1: Thank you very much Jacqueline. Thank you everyone for listening. speaker-0: That's it for today's episode. If you've enjoyed the conversation, please take a second to like, comment and share this video. It helps the channel grow and helps us reach more people with great stories. And remember, if you have a story to tell, we want to hear it. Get in touch through the comments or send us a message. Your story could feature in a future episode. Thanks for watching, thanks for your support, and we'll see you in the next one.