Latest / The Bright Side of Longevity (Hosted by Dr. Roger Landry, MD, MPH) / E118: Walking for Longevity: Ancient Wisdom Meets Modern Wellness

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E118: Walking for Longevity: Ancient Wisdom Meets Modern Wellness · The Bright Side of Longevity (Hosted by Dr. Roger Landry, MD, MPH)

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bright Side of Longevity. Join host Dr.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Roger Landry along with co-host Danielle Pai and guests as
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: they discuss the bright side of getting older through healthy longevity.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Guided by research, this lighthearted and educational show will leave
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: you with practical ways to brighten your life's journey. Jacques
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Morimarco is a doctor of traditional East Asian medicine and
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Dean Emeritus of the former Emperor's College of Traditional East
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Asian Medicine. A licensed acupuncturist since 1977, he took California's
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: first acupuncture licensing examination and later studied Sun Tai Chi
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: in Beijing with Sun Cherong. He is a fourth-generation lineage
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: holder of Sun Tai Chi and co-founder of the International
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Sun Tai Chi Association. He also supervised doctoral students providing
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: acupuncture at the PTSD Clinic at the Virginia Greater Los
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Angeles Health System. Yoon Kim is a director of traditional
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: East Asian medicine, licensed acupuncturist, founder of Emperor's Wellness, and
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: fifth-generation lineage holder of Sun Tai Chi. She has practiced
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: mindfulness and meditation for more than 20 years, studying with
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: teachers including Phich Nhat Hanh and Trudy Goodman. She completed
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: a doctoral clinical rotation at the Virginia Greater Los Angeles
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Health System's PTSD Clinic, maintained an acupuncture practice in Los Angeles,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: and earned her Doctor of Education from USC's Rossier School
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: of Education. Together, they bring decades of experience in East
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Asian medicine, Tai Chi, mindfulness, breathwork, and walking to walking
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  Speaker 1: your way to vitality, integrating walking, breathwork, and mindfulness into
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: your daily exercise. Today's topic is walking for longevity, ancient
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  Speaker 1: wisdom meets modern wellness. Music A good traveler has no
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  Speaker 1: fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Lao Tzu.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Well, welcome everybody to the Bright Side of Longevity.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: This is Dr.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Roger Landry, and I'm here with my illustrious co-host, Danielle.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: How are you, Danielle?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I am doing great, and I'm excited about today's episode.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Dr.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Roger, I don't know if you know this. I studied
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: martial arts for about 10 years, including like Tai Chi.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: I don't mess with you. I know you do.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: And I moved into yoga. And every once in a while,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I bring back the Qigong into my routine, and I
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: just feel such a difference. So I feel like today's
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  Speaker 1: message is really, really important.
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  Speaker 3: I totally agree. You know, when I went to medical
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: school ages ago, We learned only Western medicine. Between the lines,
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: they were saying this is the only thing that is
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: of value to us, and it's a shame because everything
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: I've experienced since medical school has debunked that assumption. And
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: today's guest... Although they're coming from the West, they're in California,
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: they're telling us about East Asia medicine, and we're very,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: very fortunate and very excited to have Dr. Jacques Mouramakro
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: and Dr. Yoon Kim. Welcome to our show. Thank you
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: for being with us.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having us.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: You have illustrious resumes, which the audience has already heard
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: in the pre-recorded introduction, so We don't have to repeat it,
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: but it is most interesting to me. And I would
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: love to spend a day with you talking about your
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: experiences or even more. But we have what we have.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: And so I'm going to jump into it if you're ready.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Ready to go.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Well, I know you know this, but I am just
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: always amazed how many of us overlook the benefits of
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  Speaker 3: the simple practice of walking. You know, and yet as
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: we look at the data and research, and you're going
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: to tell us even more, it is consistently valuable holistically
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: in all of our systems. So what does the research
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: actually tell us about walking and healthy aging?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the research is out there. You know,
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  Speaker 2: the step counts are out there. It's not the 10,000
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: steps as we were expecting. deceived by this little device
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  Speaker 2: called the Mampokai. It was developed in 1964, right after
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: the Tokyo Olympics. And the device went up to 10,000. So, oh,
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  Speaker 2: you need to do 10,000 steps. But the research shows
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: us that even as low as 2,500 to 3,000 still
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: has benefit. But ideally, we do want to be in
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: that 7,500 steps. And that's a key. That's a key.
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  Speaker 2: So we have to move. And they don't have to
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  Speaker 2: be done in one go.
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  Speaker 3: And it isn't just about physical, the physical part, the
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  Speaker 3: muscles and that sort of thing. It's about more than that.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. And I think that's where the East Asian view
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  Speaker 2: of the mind-body comes into effect. And that whole field
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  Speaker 2: of what we call that neuropsychoimmunology, where, you know, the
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  Speaker 2: mind connects to the nervous system, to the immune system, and,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the ancient Chinese physicians, they knew about that
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  Speaker 2: by observation, empirically. So even though they did not know
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  Speaker 2: things like T cells or, you know, natural killer cells,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: they were aware of certain mechanisms and that's the key.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: And that's what we try to bring in with this
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: book is just go beyond step counting, go beyond just
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: your daily, you know, 20 minutes out, you know, how
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: can you derive the maximum effect to the different practices?
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  Speaker 2: especially also coordinating breath and walking breath work. Dr. Yoon. Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: So movement is one of the pillars of health, right?
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  Speaker 4: We've got to move. Exercises is key. In the walks
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  Speaker 4: that we introduce, the secret sauce is the mindfulness component.
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  Speaker 4: So bringing attention to the present moment by anchoring our
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  Speaker 4: attention in the body. So feeling the feet on the ground,
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: feeling the knees lifting, feeling the shifting of the weight, counting,
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  Speaker 4: feeling our breath, counting our breath. So these are exercises
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  Speaker 4: that we can do, really powerful practices that can bring
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: us great, great health benefits. And research is now validating
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  Speaker 4: the incredibly powerful health benefits of mindfulness, being in the
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: present moment.
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  Speaker 3: I'm really talking about a walking meditation, I think you
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: were describing. And I think people should know that it's,
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  Speaker 3: and you have told us, it has a positive effect
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  Speaker 3: on our cognitive health also, which so many of us
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  Speaker 3: worry about as we get older as well as the
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: other things. So it's, you can do many other things,
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  Speaker 3: but if you do just walking and do it, you know,
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  Speaker 3: the way you described that you can have a healthy
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: aging experience. So thank you for that.
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  Speaker 1: I tell you what, this got me through college the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: first time many years ago. I would do Tai Chi
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  Speaker 1: and walking meditation because I grew up in Pennsylvania in
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: a kind of, not rural, but it was very, let's see,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: my exposure to the outside world was limited. And then
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I moved to Manhattan to go to NYU and it
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: was like shock. So for me, the introvert, even though
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I don't come across as an introvert on these calls,
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  Speaker 1: I know, but I would, kind of go off on
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  Speaker 1: my own and just practice. And it was the only
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  Speaker 1: thing because I couldn't shut my mind off. It was
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  Speaker 1: the only thing that helped me connect breathing and movement
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: to do a moving meditation, which gets me to my question.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: How can this mindful walking help those who struggle with meditation,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: who can't turn their minds off?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you may have experienced this. Those who have
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: done sitting meditation, people are very, you know, familiar with
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  Speaker 4: monks sitting for long periods of time, counting their breaths
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  Speaker 4: or doing a mantra. Difficult, difficult for most Westerners to
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  Speaker 4: be still and to be silent and to be with
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: their minds. And so I think that moving meditation in
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: some ways can be much more accessible because we move
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  Speaker 4: all the time and many people walk. So it's combining
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  Speaker 4: the movement with the mindfulness, with the breath work, really
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  Speaker 4: can enhance your daily practice.
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  Speaker 1: So what changes physically or mentally when we are intentional
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  Speaker 1: about our breathing and where we put our attention when
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: we're walking?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, for starters, you know, the biochemical changes are... there,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the cortisol, which we all know about, you know,
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  Speaker 2: that stress, you know, that sympathetic, parasympathetic event that occurs.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: We always go, go, go, you know, especially in New York,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the A-type personality, we have to go, go, go.
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  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I have a Tai Chi
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  Speaker 2: student that's a native New Yorker. He says, I really
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  Speaker 2: have a hard time slowing down. That's not in my fiber.
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  Speaker 2: So it's balancing that slowing down. It's just that mindset
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  Speaker 2: in going back to the nature of mind. The nature
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  Speaker 2: of mind has this tranquility, but we have to reconnect
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  Speaker 2: with it. And that's the key. So, you know, the
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: practices like yoga, breath, Tai Chi, mindful walking, all those
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: components can bring us back to that nature of mind.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Very well said.
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  Speaker 3: I've, you know, I'm always amazed you go to New
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  Speaker 3: York and you see a lot of people walking and
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  Speaker 3: they walk a lot, but they're walking, you know, with
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: a destination in mind or with all their, all the,
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: the cares of the day there. So, I mean, it's valuable,
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  Speaker 3: but not what we're talking about. It doesn't, it sounds
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  Speaker 3: like they're missing some of the, the more substantive value
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  Speaker 3: of that. I mean, this should not be a surprise
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  Speaker 3: to us, anyone who knows the history of our species.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we started out very nomadic and we were
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  Speaker 3: for the longest time. I think some of the tribes
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  Speaker 3: that are still out there, they take 20,000 steps a
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  Speaker 3: day when someone counted it. But it was, again, I
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  Speaker 3: think you bring You open our eyes to not only
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  Speaker 3: the value of walking, but the value of a holistic
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  Speaker 3: experience that you can get. So you actually introduced us
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  Speaker 3: in your great book, which we'll be telling people about,
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  Speaker 3: at least five different kinds of walking. And so could
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: you briefly explain those types and the value?
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  Speaker 2: So, you know, just an overview. The first chapter, we
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  Speaker 2: talked the traditional walk. And inside that traditional walk, we
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  Speaker 2: even talk about retro walking, which most people might never
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  Speaker 2: heard of, you know, walking backwards. Is that a type
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: of walking? I experienced that in China about 30 years ago.
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  Speaker 2: There you see people walking around the park backwards. And
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  Speaker 2: actually there's a component in the Tai Chi Chuan practice
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  Speaker 2: called repulse the monkey. And then I found out later
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  Speaker 2: on that that has, Some of these components, stepping backwards
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: by placing the ball of the foot and rolling back,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: you know, you affect your proper scepter, you affect your quad,
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  Speaker 2: your glutes. It really gives you a whole different sensation.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Saves on the knees, especially when a small incline. Make
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: sure everything is clear. But that retro walking was done
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  Speaker 2: already over 100 years ago. And in that first chapter,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: we talk about how some individual in 1915 went from
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: San Francisco to New York. walking backwards in less than
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: a year with a mirror documented. And it was a $ 5, 000 bet.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: That was a big bet. And he did it at
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: 260 some days. Yes, yes. So the second chapter, we
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: talk about the vitality walk. And that's really important because
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: there's a very key principle, which Dr. Yoon would talk
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: about the principle of vitality. So just say a word
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: about the principle of vitality. And I would describe the
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: vitality walk.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: Principle of vitality.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: It comes from Latin, life, right? And, you know, what
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: kind of a life do we want to live? Do
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: we want to live a life in which we feel
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: energized and nourished and we feel resilient and healthy? And
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: these are some of the very simple and safe practices
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: that we can engage in to help stay vital. And
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: I'll bring out this quote, which is the foundation of
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: East Asian medicine, which is about preventative medicine. So we
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: start our book with a quote from the Yellow Emperor's
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: classic 2,000 years ago. And it goes, superior physicians do
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: not cure diseases. They prevent diseases. Securing a disease after
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: it's risen is like casting weapons when the battle has
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: begun or digging a well when you're thirsty.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: It's too late.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: But we want to edit the 2,000-year-old classic and say
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: it's never too late.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: You have to pay attention to something that was written 2,000
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: years ago.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. Following up this idea of vitality, of course,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: breath is involved. And in this particular walk, a walk
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: that was introduced at the basis of the Malayan Range,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: But 50 years ago, I was in my 20s and
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: already black belt in martial arts. And I thought I
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: was in tip-top shape. And next to me, some of
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: our guides were in there. They were really old at
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: that time in their 50s or 60s. I said, these
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: guys are really old. They're walking really fast. And their
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: key was coordinating the breath with the stepping. So they
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: were walking and doing a dynamic breath, and I will
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: demonstrate by sound. So they were doing this inhalation, inhalation,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: exhalation with a specific rhythm. So that was my first
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: exposure on that. So that's our vitality walk. We used
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: it and taught it to so many patients and students
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: over the last number of decades, including early on to
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: my full-blown AIDS patients back in the mid to late
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: 80s and into early 90s. When I was in Palm Springs,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: I worked exclusively with full-blown AIDS patients. And some of
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: these individuals were originally given 18 months lifespan. They were
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: able to live until the medication came about into the
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: mid 90s. So it was really amazing. I saw it firsthand.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: So that's that vitality chapter. And then we have a
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: chapter on mindfulness. That's what was your first experience with mindfulness?
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: So about 20 years ago, I started to get very
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: interested in mindfulness and sitting meditation and walking meditation. And
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: I had the great fortune of doing a retreat with
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: a great Vietnamese peace activist and monk Thich Nhat Hanh,
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: who's since passed. He has a retreat center in Southern
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: California called Deer Park Monastery. And his signature teaching was
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: walking meditation. He has a wonderful book called Peace With
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Every Step. And we did a walking meditation together from
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: the meditation hall up to the hill. And it was,
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: I can still picture him leading that meditation, 200 retreatments
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: in silence. It was incredible.
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  Speaker 2: He emanated peace.
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  Speaker 4: And I thought, wow, this is amazing. This is something
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: that I want to incorporate into my life. I would
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: like to also cultivate this this deep sense of peace
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: that I felt in this great teacher. And so that
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: was the inspiration.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Dr. Roger Landry is a preventive medicine physician trained at
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Tufts University School of Medicine, and Harvard University School of
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Public Health. For nearly two decades, his focus has been
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: on empowering older adults to experience a healthy longevity. He
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: is the award-winning author of the book Live Long, Die Short,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: A Guide to Authentic Health and Successful Aging. Dr. Landry
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: is an inspiring storyteller and presenter. His keynote addresses are powerful, entertaining,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and optimistic. Learn more at LiveLongDieShort.com. So then we move
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: on to another chapter, which.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: We call the Immunity Walk. In this chapter, it's very interesting.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: This is one of the practices that is done in China,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: started in the early 80s by a group that was
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: inspired by this amazing artist named Guo Lin. So this
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: is a cancer support group that uses this specific style
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: of walking, again, with inhalation, exhalation, different than the vitality walk,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: different hand positioning and foot position. So that is our
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: immunity walk. And then moving on to a very interesting
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: chapter called the Tai Chi animal walks. So, you know,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: now it's big boss Tai Chi walking. Well, Tai Chi
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: walking is like a westernized way of, you know, taking
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: one simple element of weight transference in the Tai Chi form,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: whatever the style is, and incorporating it into a practice.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: But the Tachi animal walk, we've taken three of the specifics.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: One of them, we call it the feline walk or
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: the cat walk. It's based on the movement, transitional movement
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: that you might see in a cat or a tiger
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: or a leopard, Very, very consciously placing the heel, rolling out,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: being aware of the dungeon, the lower abdomen, the core,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: and having that weight transfer. Then we move on to
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: the Golden rooster walk, which is found in a lot
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: of style of Tai Chi, which is basically the one
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: leg stance. And that's really a key. And you have
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: seen studies, you know, how you determine strength and longevity,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: stand on one leg. That's a specific exercise we use,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: including our QR code. So you can actually see the
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: live demonstrations. The pictures are good, but the new ideas
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: of the book is the QR code. So we have that.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: And then we do the bear spirit walk, which is
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: A little bit more advanced is coordinating movement and relationship
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: to the power of the bear. So this great physician
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: called Watteau around the second century, what he did, he
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: observed the animals and he discovered that certain animals had
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: specific attributes. So the bear has a very strong shoulder
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: interscapular area. So absorb that the tiger has attributes in
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: some of the lungs and also the the joints and
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: the muscles. So you, you, you absorb that the birds
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: have attributes like the crane for balance, elegance, and you
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: take those attributes. So those were done for health. And
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: of course you study Danielle martial arts. And you know,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: there are some movements that come from the crane, like
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: some kicks or elbow blocks or, from the tiger, like
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: the tiger claw, or whatever style that you do. Even
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: they have a monkey style, a mantis style. They all
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: have different elements from the martial style. But Watteau discovered
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: and brought in these health therapeutic benefits of the animal walks.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: And then we have the very interesting, the bagua. So
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: if you study martial arts, you know that that's a very,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: very special type of martial art that has a circular pattern.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: But the idea goes back to circumambulation, which is done
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: through sacred sites in the East, even in the West,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: where you walk around a sacred monastery or a site
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: or a church, or even there's a big mountain at
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: the border of Tibet. It's called Mount Kalesh, and it
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: is the circumambulation. It takes seven days to walk the
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: whole periphery of the mountain. So that is... the idea
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: of that circular walking, which is a very specific walking
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: that also works on the inguinal area and the way
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: you step, you really work on this inguinal area, which
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: is really amazing because of the lymphatic and we know
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: all the circulation that occurs there. So that's in a nutshell,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: we try to take the essence of some of these practices,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: which are Quite challenging at times, but you know, put
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: them in a simplified form. So our patients and students
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: throughout this last many decades have derived the positive effects.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And we want to share that with, with, with our audience.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: I think it's ingenious that you, um, I think it
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: would be difficult to describe a walk, uh, just in words,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: but to then have an animal and how they walk
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: and use that as a model. That's ingenious, and I
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: think it allows for a lot of versatility in how
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: you walk. By the way, our listeners can't see you,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: but you just gave us a hint of your age,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: and you're looking very much younger, Dr. Jock, than that age.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Well, the hint that that was 50 years ago in
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: my 20s. Is that it? Yeah, that's it.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you look much younger than that. So it's working.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you for those kind words. The one
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: thing I have to say, that when I was licensed
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: here in the state of California as a practitioner of
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: East Asian medicine in 1977, I was the youngest licensee. So,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: you know, it was around that time.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: He had an early start.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: So I have a proposal, Dr. Roger. We'll see if
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: they agree. So this is audio only, but what if
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: we did a little... like mudra or breath something, and
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: we can put it on our YouTube channel, would you
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: be willing to teach us a little something that we
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: can share?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Sure, we can do that.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Are you okay with that, Dr. Roger?
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, because I love that you had different mudras with
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: the walking, so it was just hand positioning as well?
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, so one of the key mudras, the mudras are,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: they're called spiritual gesture, but actually it's position of the hands.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: With different walks. In this case, the vitality walk, we
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: use called the primordial mudra, which is a very interesting mudra.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: And the mudra word itself is a Sanskrit word. So
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: the Sanskrit word for this position of the hands. Now,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: back in antiquities, they weren't aware of the monculus. They
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: did not know that different parts of the brain control
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: the different fingers and and the space that is taken
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: by the hand inside our brain is quite large. So
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: the Adho Mudra, basically you fold your thumb into your palm,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: and then you very gently close your fist. So naturally
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: you are stimulating. In acupuncture, the thumb is controlled by
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: the lung channel, which is very interesting. And where you
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: close the palm, you have also a very important point
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: called the Lao Gong point, which is a key point
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: to calm the mind. And in terms of Ayurveda, which
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: is the medicine from India during the time of the
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Sanskrit language, this thumb would be considered the fire element
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: and the ring finger is the The ring finger is
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: the earth element. So by being close to that base
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: of that ring finger, you're strengthening up the earth element.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: So you're rooting yourself. So this mudra, just having the
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: thumb inside a very gentle fist, which is the primordial mudra.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: That's what a baby has. That in itself is a
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: key thing to ground yourself. So Dr. Yoon, you're a
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: patient that just did that.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: One of my patients got the book and she said
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: that's all she did. She incorporated the mudra into her
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: daily walk. And she said she felt so vitalized she
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: could walk up the hill faster. And so if there's
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: one thing that your listener would like to gain from
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: this interview, just try out the mudra. Doesn't cost anything.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Wow. And there's one extra benefit. Can I have that phone, please?
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: So what is the benefit of this? Yes. You can
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: scroll your phone and walk.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Now does it matter what your hand position like when
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: you're walking.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Does it just just very gently on this side you
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: don't have to pump the fist or do anything yeah
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: just just very gently have this position okay.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I'm taking that with me to sedona.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's the walking mudra and you will feel that
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: there is a subtle change in the breath and the
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: way you walk and the centeredness you know we all
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: have seen pictures of of individual meditating by touching the
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: thumb with the index finger that's you know the very
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: basic meditation mudra but then you know there's mudras where
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you place one hand on top of the other so
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: there's many different mudras and we we go over it
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: in some of the mindful walks so a very common
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: mudra is a prayer of course the prayer there's also
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: half a prayer you just hold one hand so interesting
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: that some of these ancient ideas now getting validated by
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: modern science, neuroscience. You know, the brain has such a
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: large area connecting with the hand. No wonder they knew something.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: They were aware of the sensation in the body.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: It absolutely makes sense. Well, I'm just starting to walk again.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: I just had a total knee replacement, so I will
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: definitely try that.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: It's most interesting.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: Danielle, you have another question.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Well, so I get often asked when people are talking
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: about Tai Chi or they're talking about yoga, when the
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: word Qigong comes up, they're like, how do you explain
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Qigong simply to people? So can you explain it in
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: simple terms for our audience who may not have heard
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the term before?
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So Qigong, Qi in the Chinese character, Qi gets
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: translated as, you know, the the effect of cooking rice.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: So it's, they might say energy. Okay. The release of
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the caloric energy of the rice. So energy, prana in
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: yogic terms, apnuma in Greek terms, this vital force. So
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: qigong is the practice of, gong means the practice of
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: cultivating your qi, or it could be in yoga, like
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: similar to pranayama, but the qigong has specific postures. And
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: there's hundreds of different styles of Qigong. So there's the
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: five frolics, Qigong Awato, which describe the way that five
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: animals move, which is the deer, the bear, the monkey,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: the crane. So those are the, and the tiger, of course.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Those are the animal Qigong. Then there is the Mada
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Wing Qigong. And there's the eight pieces of brocade or Baduanjin,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: the eight treasures. So there are different styles of Qigong.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: that works on different organ systems. So some Qigong have
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: sound with breath that might work on the heart, the lung,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: the kidneys, liver. So they're working on the system by
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: controlling the breath and posture.
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: And if you go on, well, I just wanted to
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: bring in the research aspect that if you go on, PubMed,
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: which is the NIH database of biomedical articles, there are
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: probably 1,500 articles, peer-reviewed articles on the health benefits of
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: both Tai Chi and Qigong. Everything from arthritis to fibromyalgia,
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: wound healing, cognition, cancer support, depression, and on and on
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: and on. So these are powerful, powerful medical therapies and very,
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: very safe. I don't think I've ever had a patient
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: who has been injured because of Tai Chi and Qigong,
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: because again, it's the mindfulness component. You're moving very slowly,
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: very intentionally.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, the Qigong also has static posture. So
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: you're holding some specific posture. So it's almost, you're getting
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: there like isometric benefits on top of it.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: I've seen the videos from China and other East Asia
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: countries where there'll be large groups in a park doing it.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: So I would love for it to get more embedded
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: in our own culture like that. I hope your book
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: does that. I think it's a giant step towards that.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: So again, thank you.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: The reason I'm laughing is way back when I was,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I think, maybe 19 or 28, and I was just
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: taking a class, and my teacher was standing in, I'm
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: forgetting the name of the pose now, whether it was mountain.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: It's called Zhang Juan. Zhang Juan. Standing pose, like tree pose. Okay.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Tree pose.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: He's standing like this, and I walk beside him, and
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: I stand there, and I ask him, what are we doing?
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: He's like, we're standing. okay then somebody else came in
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: and said danielle what are you doing it's like i'm
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: standing they're like that must be driving you crazy it
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: is so basically my teacher would say stand there until
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you bore yourself to death and that was my first
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: taste in meditation is just standing until your arms you
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: can't do it anymore so uh but but very powerful
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: i felt like so i had so much energy afterwards
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: um So I could talk all day, so I keep
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: doing these segues. So we know that balance is increasingly
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: important as we get older, and many of our listeners
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: are older adults. How specifically can this help with balance?
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the key for the balance would be
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: the so-called the animal walk, and especially the tiger walk,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: just having that awareness of stepping with your heel and
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: rolling into the ball of the foot. And also the
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: retro walk, also stepping with the ball and rolling back. Also,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: the golden rooster stands on one leg. You know, you can,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: at the beginning, just hold yourself on the table and
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: just stand with one leg up until you can step
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: like this. called rooster step, stepping and lifting up your
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: knee into that. We've seen it, the flamingo stance. Yeah.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: I can picture that. So, you know, one of the
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: problems that we have with any form of physical movement,
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: call it exercise or just physical movement, is consistency. I
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: think I know the answer to this after you've described this.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: This sounds like fun. So when something is fun and
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: makes you feel better, it's probably not going to be
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: a problem. Is that what you've seen?
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, also, let's talk about consistency. Yeah.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Well, it's, you know, you've got to make a commitment
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: to your health. So I recommend a short challenge. Doing
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: a practice, even for 10 minutes or 15 minutes, but
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: do it every single day. So really committing yourself to
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: a practice and then maybe increasing that to two weeks
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: and a month challenge. I myself did a thousand day
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: Tai Chi challenge. So four rounds of Sun Tai Chi,
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: so 30 minute practice every single day for a thousand days.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: And gosh, after having done it, I just wonder at myself,
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: how did I do that? When I made a commitment,
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: I made a commitment. Every morning, I would think, when
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: am I going to do my practice today? And I
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: did that every single day for a thousand days. And
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: if I can do it, anybody can do it.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: I really, yes.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Well, that whole idea of starting with a short period
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: and then extending it as you go, probably willingly extending it.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's the key to any kind of change
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: in our lifestyles. I know that we have found that,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: you know. So I think that that would definitely work.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: And one of my meditation teachers said, you know, you
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: don't forego brushing your teeth every day and do it
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: for an hour on the weekend. You do it every
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: single day. It's kind of a cleansing. So you're kind
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: of building that muscle, right? These daily practices, right? are
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: very important.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: The effects are cumulative.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: I think we are creatures, basically some more than others,
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: of ritual and habit in a good way. And so
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: I think that's excellent advice. And I know that that's
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: what I found sometimes difficult getting started or something that
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: I wasn't enjoying or tried to do too much too
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: soon and fell off the wagon. Whereas just as you say,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Do something in small doses and let it organically increase.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I hear that in coaching. So I'm a mindfulness coach
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: and do some coaching in the mental health space. And
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: that's what you hear all the time. They're so excited.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I want to do an hour. Every day. And I
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: applaud their enthusiasm, but I'll say, okay, but I'm going
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: to hold you accountable for five minutes or ten minutes. And, Raji,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you make a good point about making things a habit.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Habit stacking works really well. So for some people, it's like, okay,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have my morning coffee or tea, and
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go for a walk, or I'm going
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: to do my walk, and then I'm going to journal.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: But stick it with something they're already doing, and it
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: just makes it easier, I think, for people to commit to. Yes.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: So in our book, the interesting thing is that we
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: have the Tachi animal walk and the Bagua, the circular walk.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: That can be done if it's extremely cold, if there's
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: a blizzard, snowstorm, we can go out. But yes, you
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: can still have a relevant practice and do it in
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: your living room or even in a room. You can
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: walk that circle walk or work on some of these
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: animal walks. So there is room to also incorporate some
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: variety and break that constant, okay, I have to do
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: the same exact thing. Well, you can change it up
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: and pick a specific walk for that day. Maybe you
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: want to be more vital on a specific day. You
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: do want to do the vitality walk or you want
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: to get more rooted and you might want to be
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: more into the mindfulness walk. So all of them can
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: be adapted to the person individually. And then also mixed
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: in a series of practices. Once you build it up, okay,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: today I'm going to do five minutes of this one,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: five minutes of that one, and make your own program.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: And we'll give some examples.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: So I don't want to forget, where can people go
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: to learn more about you and your book?
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: We have a website.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: It's name of the book, the title of the book, walkingyourvitality.com.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: And we're also on Instagram, Yeah. That's walking your way
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: to vitality.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: So walking your way to vitality, there's, you know, in, in,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: in the LA area, we do have a free event
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: coming up.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: We do have an event on November 4th. If any
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: of your listeners are in Los Angeles, it's at the
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: Venda museum in Culver city, California. And we will be
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: teaching one of the walks at that workshop.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And free of charge. Yes.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: Well, this has been enlightening, as I expected that it was.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: In fact, my initial comments about my medical school curriculum,
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: it would be my hope that this could get into
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: the medical school curriculum, at least into doctors' offices and
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: their waiting rooms, and get out there and to individuals.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: So I thank you, first of all, and I wish
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: you great luck in spreading this word. And I know
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: that Danielle and I will because we're committed to healthy longevity.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: And I see this as a major contributor to that experience.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: So thank you for this work. I know what it's
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: like to write a book. It's not easy and it's commitment.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: But you've demonstrated that you are people who can commit
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: to something. So thank you very much. And I wish
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: you great luck with this wonderful book.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you for everything you do.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: You've been listening to The Bright Side of Longevity with
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: host and preventive medicine physician and award-winning author, Dr. Roger Landry,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: and co-host, nationally board-certified positive psychology and mindfulness coach, Danielle Pai.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: If you like the show, please rate and review and
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: be sure to click to follow.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Thank you.