Latest / Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert / Birch Babe, Kelsey Irvine

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Birch Babe, Kelsey Irvine · Found-HER with Kimberley Hiebert

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Besties.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Today we're just jumping right in.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna just join us in the middle of a conversation.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not even gonna introduce my guest uh because you're just gonna be so enthralled with her energy, how she talks, her business, just all of it.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: It will come out.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'll I'll say your name.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Kelsey Irvin, to the is it Irvine or Irvine?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's whatever you want to do.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's a funny, it's a funny answer.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: I asked my grandpa once as a kid, I said, is our name Irvin or Irvine?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, whatever you want it to be.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's a weird answer, but I usually say Irvine because I think it sounds fancier.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Irvine, Kelsey Irvine.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have the same problem with my last name.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: People say he bearer or he bird.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but I will say this.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Kelsey is uh the CEO and co-founder of Birch Babe, which is my favorite skincare.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Can I and it's a Canadian skincare brand, and it's fully organic.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I fell in love with you guys on Dragon Stand when I saw you because I'm an avid watcher of Dragon Stand.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um I loved your guys' story, and I just I feel so excited to have you here on the podcast.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Bestie's listening, you're gonna just love Kelsey and all that she.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: You made my day.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I where I want to start.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: I know you and I have been having some conversations offline.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we'll leave them there.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: But what I would like to I'll give you the opportunity is maybe give us a little frame around who you are and where you came from because I also find your history quite interesting, what you did.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like what you did before you became a founder of a product-based business, ladies.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for what I'll do for anyone who doesn't know Birch Babe, I'll give my three-sentence pitch just in a short little summary, and then I'll get into kind of where I came from.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So Birch Babe is all about high quality skincare for the low maintenance babe.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: I love that line, by the way.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's my favorite.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have it on a hat.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I'll get you one.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: It all started 10 years ago when our mom actually hiked from the southern tip of Patagonia to the northern tip of Chile by herself at the age of 57.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: It took her five months.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what not everyone knows is it was actually her first time on a plane solo and her first time traveling by herself, which we can talk about later.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, I know.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm turning 59.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: I barely like to go to Vancouver by myself.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, it's nice to have a buddy.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and she came home, she was so inspired.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I remember specifically, she said, I'm quitting my job and I'm moving to the cottage.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So she quit her job, sold the house, moved to the cottage with our stepdad, and then just started making skincare and body products for herself, friends and family.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: She was always really into health and wellness.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like we were not allowed to have pop or chips as kids.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was once a week on a Friday for TGI Friday.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't unusual for us to see her doing this.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it really came out of a love for nature and seeing that she wanted to ensure that everything was lake safe.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And she just started to see how poorly monitored skincare products were, especially in North America, and just how there was no regulation.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So she started making it for friends and family, and then people loved it.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So she started doing farmers markets, and then we convinced her.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: We said, Hey mom, you're really good at this.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you go back to school and get you know for skincare formulation?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So she went back to school at 60 and got two diplomas in organic skincare formulation.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's super crazy, super cool.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it was in the EU.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So everything's formulated to EU standard, which we're super proud of.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of just like us watching from afar.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was in Toronto, my sister was in Toronto, we were living our lives there, and then the pandemic happened, we both lost our jobs, and we thought, hey, what are we gonna do with this time?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, why don't we just take a few hundred dollars and we'll rebrand Birch Babe as some nice thing to do for our mom, and then we'll just go back to our regular lives.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: The rebrand was super basic, nothing was in boxes for the first three years.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: We printed our own labels on a can, a$300 Canon printer.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was you would mix up the toner from the face oil from the from the body oil because they were in the same container and looked like they had the same labels, and it just grew.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it grew naturally from being in 30 stores to 300 stores, and now three years later, today we're in almost 800 stores across Canada.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: We've since done another rebrand.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that scaled us significantly.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: You just said three years.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Literally three years.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, three years, it's it's chapter.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: So in the first during the pandemic, which is 2020, we launched the first rebrand.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And in three years, we went from 30 stores to 300 stores with like our basic branding.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then in 2024, we thought, hey, like, let's take this seriously.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's something here.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: We got some financing from the BDC and we used that money to rebrand Birch Babe.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: But we knew that we had to have a point of difference, otherwise, we'd just get lost in a sea of a gazillion other skincare brands out there.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So our mom was like, well, if we're gonna be the known as, you know, if we're gonna be the safest skincare brand on the market, if we're gonna be the most trusted skincare brand in Canada, it really starts at day one.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so we need to launch a babyline.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so with our rebrand in January of 2024, we launched Birch Babe and Birch Baby, becoming a family brand for families.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that grew at 20% month over month in 2024, and then in 2025 we grew 174%, and now in 2026, we've already smashed 2025 by like 190 in the first six months.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're now in around 750 stores, and but it's taken five, six years to get here working together.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe it's in six years.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and that's really, you know, this podcast.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, congratulations to your family for all of that.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we make it sound like like I was like, what?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: And all it's a very short timeline to reach those kind of though that that kind of output.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not talking like revenue, profit, you know, all that kind of, but that kind of output.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm guessing, and this is where the the really heart of our podcast really lies, is neither one of any three of you probably were were uh had a playbook, if you will, with for how to build how to build a product business.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: Never mind how to build a the number one selling skincare brand.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: What do you say?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um our way.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, our mission is to be the number one trusted skincare brand in Canada, and then to put Canada on the on a map on the map as a global leader in the natural skincare space.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like our mission.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we're on our way there.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right, but you don't have a playbook.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so those those five I didn't even have a business plan.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even have a business plan for like the first three years.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I call it chapters, because right the first three years with that basic canon printer branding.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: We we didn't like it wasn't like what you see on the internet today where everyone's like, you know, build in public and we're gonna build this brand and it's gonna be amazing.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: You one that didn't really happen in the on the internet back then.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like you sort of like kept it you just sounded like an old person.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: That didn't really happen on the internet.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't happen on the on the world wide web.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't happen.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, well, because everything is a good thing.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't happen on the Google, it didn't happen on the Googs.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um it didn't happen on the Google.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, it didn't.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was very like you kept it a secret and then you launched it, you know.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's it's so interesting to see all the stuff behind the scenes.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we I did not have a desire to make a CPG brand.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know it was something I could do.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know it was a possibility.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: It really just started as a labor of love of let's just make our mom's brand a little less confusing.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: A little less confusing, I like that.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and then and then we'll let her just kind of and then the pandemic just kept going, so we just kept going with it, and then and then you know it wasn't until 2024 when we thought, okay, there's something here.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now with this rebrand, let's make it elevated, approachable, whole, whole food shelf-ready.
• 8:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that was always our goal to be on the shelves of Whole Foods across Canada.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of where the recent rebrand came from.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't have a business plan in the first three years.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I made a business plan to get the financing from the BDC because they wanted a business.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because they did they asked for one.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: They needed one to give us money.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, You're like, okay, well, what is a business plan?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: Literally.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: So if we go back to your search bar back then, I was like looking up templates.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was 50 pages.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really good business plan, and now I still use it and I update it every few months.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know what would be fascinating.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: So throw that into a uh Claude and evaluate the business plan from then until now.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh anyway, that's just the geek side of me now.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: I take those and that's what I do.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: I throw them in.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: But so let's let's just pause for a second and I uh I want to know are you two the only do you have other siblings?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have a half brother and a half sister, Carly and Clayton from a different my dad's side.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: He has a another.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so there you don't have siblings related to your mother's side where you guys okay.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because I was just curious about sibling rivalry in the business.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: But tell me a little bit my husband and I, this is our fourth family business.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: So we yeah, we've had three other family businesses, and we wrote a book called Awkward Family Dinners about some of our awkwardness, and not that I want you to dump the tea, but tell tell me.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'll dump the tea.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'll hang those bitches out.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll dump the tea.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's how how's it been transitioning to like you guys had your own independent careers, your own independent lives?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: And now I'm guessing that you're all very tied to the same ecosystem, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um I know you have your own, but tell me a little bit about that for you and your sister and your mother, and how's that journey been?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think challenges that you found.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's definitely challenges every day.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think it helps just to know sort of where we come from because we come from very different backgrounds.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Our mom was a serial creative entrepreneur, just like throw things at the wall and try different things and um evolving her.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like we grew up, so I come from a family of entrepreneurs.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So my grandfather started the largest car park distribution company in Durham.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: My dad took it over, my aunt and uncle own a water park, it's like one of the biggest water parks in Durham area.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: My girl, so we I come from a family of like just seeing entrepreneurs.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that we had our mom was more of the creative type.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um, it does really help that we're all doing this together because our mom is extremely smart and very savvy, but she's more like the maker, she's the creator.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so she actually owned and started with my stepdad the Great Little Bread Company, which was a place that we illegally lived on top of in high school.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um in a and it was a bread company where she just taught herself how to make bread from scratch.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so and I didn't realize how big of a deal what that was until during the pandemic, everyone was trying to make sourdough and having a hard time.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, what's so what what's so hard?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in high school just waking up to 12 different loaves of bread being ready by my mom.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so she taught herself how to make bread and started this really cool cafe ahead of its time with art artists on the wall, and Serena Ryder used to play there on Thursdays.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really eclectic and super cool, and it was a loft style, and so we lived on top of it.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay when the fire department found out they kicked us out.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we had a very like eclectic kind of childhood.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so I went to school for advertising, so I actually grew up Oh, so you have a lot.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was in advertising, which really helped me with growing Birch Bay because I worked in a lot of big ad agencies in Toronto, so I saw how the creative process worked from copywriting to art direction to messaging to digital to out of home to all of that, and then I really wanted to get into uh a more tangible part of the business, so I started producing and I got into producing because the first film I ever made as a side hustle while I was working in advertising got nominated for an Oscar, and so I went to the Oscars.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know really what film it was called Claude Lansman Spectres of the Shoah, and it was a film so random.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: It got bought by HBO, it got nominated for an Emmy in an Oscar.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: We totally bootstrapped it, team of like four, made up that we had a production company, went to Paris, filmed it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was like that's a crazy sketchy bootstrap, super scrappy, made this film, and I didn't even know it.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I got an Oscar nomination.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I went to the Oscars.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had like I like a gallon.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh god, did you have wow uh a whole other podcast?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so, anyways, long story short, so I had that, so that Oscar nomination allowed me to come back to Toronto and be like, I'm gonna try and be a producer.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually spent two years.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I would just get a job as a producer, and everyone's like, No, you have no experience.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up producing commercials eventually, and so I learned the whole production side of businesses and advertising and marketing and how to film and what to film and how to make something look good.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then I really wanted to be a director because I saw there was no woman directors out there, not very many, anyways.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I spent two to three years dedicated to being a female direct a woman director.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually it was really tough.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I did a lot of spec work.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I paid people to let me help them on set.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, I will pay to let me help you make me make this.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was like, I would find implementing right, so I could get experience.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, one day I was producing a job in LA and it was covering the black IPs in like an ATT commercial, and they fired the director, and I said, Well, who's gonna direct it?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And thank God the client just looked at me and said, You're gonna direct it.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so my first job as a woman director was the black IPs, Apple DF.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I took that experience and I started directing.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, I was directing, so I then so I had all this experience of advertising, marketing, storytelling, production under my belt.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when the pandemic hit, all my directing jobs that I had built this career around got canceled overnight.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And my sister um simultaneously was running the largest, uh, sorry, the most popular, I like to say, dive bar in Toronto called Sneaky D's.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: So she was the general manager of Sneaky D's.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so she has all this experience with managing people and inventory and oh yes.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: You guys had a lot of good crossover skills.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of great crossover skills.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so then she lost her job during the pandemic, and so we all had very different skill sets.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we were rebranding BirchBeebe, we never started going over top of each other.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was always automatically kind of the lead on branding and how you do this and where to source it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And my sister was always the one that was organizing the studio, shipping.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I've shipped one box in my life.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't touch, I don't even know how to fold the box if I had to.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's like me with doors.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: I have not fixed it, I don't fix doors.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, yeah, I don't know.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't, I think I've labeled two things.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So my sister was doing all the labeling and all of that, and our mom was the formulator.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we never really had that issue of you know, what upping each other or just who won't yeah, fighting for roles or whatever.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was super, super helpful and really showed me the importance of leaning into people and making sure that your leadership team is filled with people who are not the same as you.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um because we were able to kind of stay in our own lane and then collaborate in the middle.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Will we did did we disagree?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: We disagreed on a lot of things.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: There were a lot of things that have you sorry, when you say disagree on things, do you guys have like a um uh like a SOP, if you will, or uh format for managing disagreements?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like have you ever heard the um midday squares?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, midday squares.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like the yeah, like they have like the so they have like uh or one podcast I heard, they have like um a process for the three of them as family to manage conflict, right?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: In the we do and we don't.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Our process is that usually the person who's leading a certain category will bring something to the table, yeah, we'll ensure that they triple bid it and do their due diligence, and then they'll bring it to the table and we'll all agree if that purchase or that investment or that team is something that we want to do.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, I run marketing, and if we want to hire and like we hired a team earlier this year that was quite expensive and it was for our ads, it didn't work out.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so we before I would make that decision, even though the decision kind of falls on me because I'm the one that's gonna be the closest to it, we will have everyone on the team meet that team so they can get a vibe check, they know what the cost is, and we all agree on it together.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if something doesn't go well, you don't feel like you're pointing the finger at someone for making we're like we all made this decision together like unanimously and together.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't hold bad decisions over each other.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're just like, you know, that's that team didn't work out.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we let them go before their contract was up.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was a three-month contract.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: We let them go at two months and paid them for their third month for to have no bad blood, and it was just cleaner to like fire or like let go of things early if it's not working, don't have bad blood, eat eat the cost if you have to.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we did that, and we don't hold it over each other because it's not useful.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: We just go, okay, this wasn't helpful.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: What have we learned from it?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we know we're gonna do this, okay.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Fine, moving forward.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we definitely disagree.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's definitely been things that have happened where it was a bad decision.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but our kind of workaround is we let the person who's leading that category kind of take the lead.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's a unanimous decision we have to make, um, and it's two against one, we just move forward.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's two against one, and we just we'd move forward in that what sometimes you don't get what you want.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then if it doesn't work out, we you know, maybe you can have like a five-second bragging rights.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: I told you so.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: But that's it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have time for that.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's no rubbing faces in the dirt, and we move on.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I think that really helps.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's good that you have that um agreement and understanding amongst you because yeah, you don't want to be you don't want to be biting at each other every yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: And when there's a decision made by the whole, it's important that everybody, it's like when my husband and I decide to get the second dog, I was like, we both need to agree to this because when it becomes a pain in the ass, uh-huh, I do not want to hear you say, Well, you wanted the dog.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we can't, that's not uh-uh-uh, that does not happen, right?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really important for that.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I I would say that even in my my partnership with Darren, because just him and I that make the decisions, but that's how we are.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: We are when we make those decisions, he trust me, if I make a decision and then we've done that too, hired in an agency, and 60 days in, I'm like freaking out.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not working, I'm it's not working.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: We're dumping you know tens of thousands of dollars monthly into it, and I'm almost like, we got to put a plug on this, we gotta start, you know.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: And he still's like, and I'm like, shit, I just lost us like 30 grand.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, whatever.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so that is helpful to keep moving on.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: What has been the one thing?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I want to jump in one thing with that.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: What helps us is that instead of I never look at it as we should have done it that way, right, or we lost this much money.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I try to look at it as, and we were talking about this before we pressed record, as I go, okay.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can't always be a learning because then you're gonna be like, it was a learning, lap, but like there's some serious stakes that are happening here.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, it's a learning, but I but that's why it's good to fire to let go of things fast if they're not working and have no bad blood.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: But we also I really try to look at it and be like, thank goodness this happened now.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes, that's right a year from now.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because the money loss now is way less than it will be a year from now when our company is twice the size.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm so glad that I'm learning this lesson now than a year from now.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I just yeah, and I and like you you know, a lot of these things we're gonna do anyways.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I had a friend that's a business person being and runs another business, and they're like, I was gonna tell you not to hire that team.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew that you would have done it anyways.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, honestly, I would have done it anyways.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would have done it anyways.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: So what's the what's the one thing?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um what has been the biggest surprise in this journey for you going from film into building a business with your family?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it could even be along the CPG, like you've had you guys were on Dragon's Den.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: You had a couple of people, a couple of dragons want in.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um what has been the kind of biggest surprises for you, exciting or otherwise, in the journey in the last few years that have kind of brought new dimension to you?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think the biggest surprise is just seeing how capable I am.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said six years ago, it was never an intention to be the number one skincare brand in North America, like number one natural skincare brand in North America that just would never felt like it was something possible.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't in my mind, it wasn't something that I was grasping.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we had a partner at the time and it didn't go very well, and we ended up buying them out early on.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very early on.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: We used our um family inheritance to ensure that this was a woman and family owned company very, very early on in the first year.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember saying to myself, in those first six months of having to buy this person out who was kind of saying, like, you're not gonna be able to do it without me, and yada yada yada.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking, like, I can't do this without this person, like I don't know how I'm gonna do this.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how I'm gonna like build a website or manage a website and like the logistics of a skin.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know how I'm gonna do this.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm doing it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and I and I constantly have to remind myself because it also comes down to there's every team we've hired has been it's not that they've been a bad team, but they just weren't the best fit.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And in some cases, I've hired, you know, an ads team recently, and they were a great team, just wasn't the right fit.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I really believed that they would know the brand better than I would and how to scale the brand in online ads.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Funny.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Already scaling them quite successfully, but I thought if we're doing it successfully, someone else can do it way better than I can.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it's their zone of genius.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's their zone of genius, and then passing it off to them and seeing just how much it it actually hurt the brand, and it wasn't scaling it at all, and it was costing a lot of money, and then taking it back in-house and seeing how I was able to reverse that and improve the the ads by 40% within three days.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And just how capable, it doesn't mean I should be doing everything because that's not possible, but just how capable I am and I've become of knowing this brand and what's best for it and scaling the company, that has surprised me the most because I I I don't I don't think I could have imagined this six years ago.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, see, and this I do we were just having this conversation this morning because there is something when you're still very much attached to the building of your your business and your product or service or whatever it is, like we're still very founder-led as well.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: You have a connection to the language, the vibe, the vision, all of that.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: That when you have to translate it to an organization, there's a loss sometimes in translating that, or they can't pick it up in the same way.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: No matter how many assets you've created or what kind of onboarding you do.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where I come back to every single time, because then what happens is we outsource what we think.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh yeah, we don't want to be doing everything.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: So then we're challenged to outsource, but then it feels like we're outsourcing that messaging because uh it's so hard to replicate it when it's still very much it's still very much in its infancy.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's like sending an infant, you know, to be kind of supervised at large, not nurtured, right?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: They're still the nurture of the business.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so I know I this has been a challenge for me most recently, especially in the adoption of AI in franchising and in the service-based franchising.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: And do I hire out?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: But then, but then the again you get that that translation problem, I think is what it comes down to.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then realizing you know your brand best does that, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: How do you start to develop a little bit in-house?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's a constant conversation, but I love that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you've learned to trust that you can do it.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Six years ago, yeah, you're right.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: You had no idea, but now you do, which also fuels you for the next challenge, whatever that is.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Everything that the thought that comes to mind is everything is figure out about what I need is is deep within within me.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like there is the answer is deep within me.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, of course, I can find it through people, places, things, and guidance and coaches and help, but uh we are so capable of uh guiding and leading ourselves more than I think we realize.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just listening, listening to that inner compass.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: So, what do you think because you're you have a you have a product business, and this is a lot, everything you know about business right now and marketing.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: What moves the needle in your brand?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: Is it more visibility on the actual product or on you guys as the creators and developers and nurturers of the business and the product?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: What what brings more?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm still figuring that I'm still it's an evolution.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: One of the short stories I always like to tell to founders, especially, is that in 2024 when you launched the first the rebrand, like the very pretty rebrand that you see online today with the craft packaging and the colors.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I naively thought that because and also coming from my commercial directing background where everything was very polished and beautiful, and I worked on massive brands, so everything was really stunning, and that was kind of like the that was the baseline.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we had this gorgeous photo shoot with models and beautiful packaging and beautiful photography, and that's what we launched on our website, and that's what we did in our ads, and that's what we did on our social media, and I kind of thought that the brand would just sell itself because it looked so pretty.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was humbled completely because between January and March or April, the sales plateaued, and then they even dropped a couple like they even started to drop.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was we were freaking out because this is a new Ray brand.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: We had to pay back the BDC, so you get a loan, but you got to pay it back.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not free money.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And out of desperation, we were like, What are we going to do?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I started talking to other founders, and one of my close friends, I asked her, like, what did you do?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Her brand was about a year and a half ahead of mine.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And she goes, Well, last year we just went to as many markets as possible.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a bit snobby because I was just like, Market.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like why we used to do markets and now we're online.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not doing, I'm not doing markets.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're going backwards?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going backwards.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, That's what we did.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, Well, I will do anything.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So then I signed up for one of a kind show on as many little markets as we could, and it was the best thing that we could have done as a business.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: We also signed up for CHFA to meet more retailers, even though we knew that was a long game.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the best thing we could have done because one of a kind show in itself is quite expensive, especially if you're a new and up-and-coming brand.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the booth is not cheap and it's a quite an investment, and no one knew who we were.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was we were desperate to get money.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: So every person that we spoke to, it was like the pitch of our lives.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say, oh my god, we're natural skincare.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're all natural, we're um sustainable skincare, we're made in Canada, and I could see you can see people's faces in person, what you can't see online.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can see if someone's interested, if they're stopping, if they want to talk to you, if they're if they want to put something on their hand.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: People don't lie.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, out of sheer desperation, I just said to someone, 10 years ago, my mom hiked in the southern tip of Patagonia to the northern tip of Chile.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And when she came home, she was so inspired, she quit her job, went back to school at 16, got two diplomas in organic skincare formulation.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Birthday was born, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I had this two-minute pitch, and people were not walking away from me.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: They were like putting the product on their hand, they wanted to learn more.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: They were telling me, Thank you so much for stopping me.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad I learned about this.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized that people were more interested in the story than the product and the branding.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we took that story and we put that into our online ads, and that is what scaled us the 20% month over month in the second half of 2024 was that brand story.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the story became our strategy.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's what got us into purity.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's what got our Disney collaboration marketing gold for anybody that's gonna be.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah while we were learning about what people were interested in.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then we were able to take that money from the market and put that into the ads.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then we were able to.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because you could create you could change the creatives based on the information that you received.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I saw you saw, and I think you can see it.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: You can see how people are interpreting your brand.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is the real gold here, is what you said is like you could see how people would react to like, oh, we're natural, oh, we're you know, sustainable, oh, we're organic, oh we're people are like, why, why?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then you tell the story and you see the shift and the change in the interest.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that to me is that that's the liquid goal.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's that is our so whoever's listening, when you're wherever this finds you, go back a little bit, five minutes, rewind, and start taking notes on how you can do that in your own business.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think so many, and ourselves included, we went right to you know, we do ground game stuff too, but we do meta marketing as well.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: And people go, especially in online space, they go right to online space without really truly taking the real life kind of it's market research, if you will, but it's it's it's more valuable than just would you like this product kind of market research.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's more thank you.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know a person I know a brand who in her first year she made a hundred K just going to markets.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't spend any money on advertising, you just went to markets.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I try to tell brands that all the time, and they kind of look at me and they roll their eyes, and I just find it so funny because even today we went to a market like a week ago, and no one at the market knew who we were, and everyone thinks everyone that knows Virch Babe is like, oh my god, Virch Vape's so big, you're everywhere, you're on dragons, and there's still pockets where no one's gonna know who you are, and it's really nice to get out of your own way and get out of your computer and talk to people.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if you feel like a market feels too small for you, don't post about it.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: No one needs to know you were there.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: Just don't do it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: No one needs to know you were there, and it's about the diversification of income.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we are 70% in 2025, we sold in 2025, in 2024, we sold 850,000.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: In 2025, we sold 1.7 million.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we scaled quite a bit.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: But being a bootstrap brand, you need diversification of income.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we were we're 70% online away from the money that we bring in and 30% wholesale.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's even being in 750 stores right now.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we do quite a bit online and we're only in Canada.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: All of our income, all of our revenue is a very important thing.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's all Canadian.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: You're not distributed.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: None of it is in the US yet.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: We'll do that soon.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so it really is important, in my opinion, as an up-and-coming brand, to be able to have the money from online, to be able to have the money from markets, to be able to have the money from wholesale, which you're not gonna see if you do for a while.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you yeah, wholesale with a distributor we use 30 to 60 days later.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we also do wholesale with like more smaller independent stores where you see the money usually immediately or maybe within 30 days.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have like a small storefront.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: So all of these are funding each other.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because sometimes we get a massive payout from our distributor, and that will help fund a couple major initiatives, but then sometimes ads are helping.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and then we also have email, and email is a whole fantastic avenue as well that we have that we've been building for a long time.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's not just uh it's not just about going to a market and getting your story.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Every market we've gone to has allowed us to collect emails that's contributing to you can eventually do it, yeah.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it's being really smart about that.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so, what what is the one thing that you would leave listeners with?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know you've dropped a lot of nuggets.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: We're I mean, quickly running well uh over well, not time, but you know what I mean.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: But what is the what is the one thing that you would leave for a founder listening who has come across this?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: What is yeah, your one piece of inspiration, quote, advice, maybe a messy middle moment that somebody else can feel that they don't have it figured out either, and still I'd say the best advice or I guess suggestion I can give that has helped me is find three businesses, one that's like your number one.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um the best thing I could have ever done is go for coffee one-on-one with businesses that were a year ahead of me, two years ahead of me, five years ahead of me, exit.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and those ones that are one to three years ahead of me were the most valuable.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And some people I only met with once, yeah, some people I've met with twice, some people I had just a quick conversation at a market, and I was like, How are you doing?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: What's new with you?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Every single one-on-one interaction I have with another founder that's ahead of me.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I learn the most valuable lessons from them that I have applied to Birch Babe.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or when I have wondered if we're doing something right or wrong with Birch Babe, and I've spoken to these other founders, and I've heard how long it took them to scale ads.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard how much they're spending on ads, I've heard what trade shows they're going to, I've heard what issues they've had after they raised with an investor and it went south.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard how much how much percentage of the company they gave up in order to raise X amount.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you have these one-on-one conversations, you can be like, oh, you raised how much did you raise?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I raised this much.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, do you mind me asking how much of your business you gave up?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll tell you these answers in one-on-one conversations, and it's really allowed me to understand where Birch Bape is in the grand ecosystem of growing a business and knowing that we are more than on the right track, and also knowing what to avoid, what to do, what to implement, what to lean into as we're scaling, because it can be really easy to be like, oh my god, I suck or something's going wrong, or what is it?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you go, no, no, no, wait, that brand, it took them this long.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna do this, this, and this.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: But that brand did this.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it feels good just to know that yeah, you're on the right track.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you like, I know we are all individual businesses were growing, but like for me in the franchise world, right?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know anybody that's franchising.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I I don't know.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is it is this normal that it's gonna take, you know, three three years to get my first five franchise partners?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: If you know my first year I wanted 10.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: I thought, and now I look back and I'm like, oh my god, that was so adorable.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: I can't like nobody gets 10 in their first year, right?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, bring it on, you know, the whole world.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, so thanks for that.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: How can people find okay?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, how can people get Birch Babe?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: And how can they jump into your world and uh follow you and um all the fun stuff?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: Your socials are always great.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I love the brand.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love all your commercials.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think you um the commercials, the ads, what however, sorry, ads.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm dating myself commercials.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: I love I love how you guys are presenting your brand.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: I love the story behind the brand.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people can find us at Birch Babe, so just at Birch Babe, and um they can find me at Kelsey L Irvine, I-R-V-I-N-E, on my own personal page.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you can just go to birchbabe.com and you can find Birch Babe there.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I always recommend the LTB bundle, which is the Light and Titan Brighton bundle.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: It is our top-selling bundle for sure, if you're not sure where to start.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it has the gentle face scrub, which came in first place at the Global Clean Beauty Awards.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like the evolution of that scrub from the 90s that shall not be named, um, but safe enough for sensitive skin.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have our vitamin C serum that was listed number one in Fashion Magazine.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the moisturizer which you're wearing right now.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you know this, but it's been called a skin suiticals dupe.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we just did a voluntary clinical study, and it came back with an over 80% um success rate of people noticing that it lightened, tightened, brightened, and gave more luminous, luminescent complexions.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: That was really fun.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have our hydrating face cream, which is two times award-winning and safe for sensitive skin, rosacea, eczema, psoriasis.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what you can find.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And other than that, there's our sunscreen that'll be back in stock.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I can't wait for that.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I can't wait to carry on the conversation.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.