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Maximizing Instagram Reach · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
Hey, it's Jeff, it's him for coming at you.
0:12
I'm back in the chair in front of the microphone, another hot guest episode coming at you fast
0:19
and furious.
0:20
I've been away for a moment.
0:21
So I missed you.
0:22
Not sure if you missed me, but hey, it's been a couple of weeks since I got one of these
0:26
out.
0:27
We're back through the summer and into the fall season and coming at you with a very
0:33
special episode in just a moment.
0:34
But before I do, hey, I wanted to share with you a win of the week once again shout out
0:38
to Ori.
0:39
Ori's win of the week.
0:40
He shared in our private community of mortgage loan professionals is he was able to schedule
0:44
a continuous training of our library of done for you agent classes with a team of about
0:50
20 agents in his area.
0:53
These agents are consistently listed in the top in the state for exp agents shout out to
1:00
you.
1:01
Or you've been doing the work.
1:02
Hey, and that is my question for you, heading into the fall.
1:04
What is your plan for getting in front of agents at scale, adding value, differentiating
1:10
yourself, positioning yourself, who attract versus chase and build a personal brand reputation
1:18
that is one of a partner in a peer versus a vendor and a solicitor.
1:22
I heard it said a few weeks ago that everything you want is beyond is on the other side,
1:30
I should say, of your reach and reputation.
1:34
Everything you want is on the other side of your reach and your reputation.
1:39
So when it comes to getting referrals from real estate agents, how many agents are you
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reaching?
1:43
What is your reputation?
1:45
How well known are you?
1:46
You want to level that up?
1:48
You want to scale your reach?
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You want to expand and optimize your reputation.
1:52
You want to become known as the most value added mortgage professional in your backyard.
1:57
Hey, maybe you want to consider doing what Ori does.
1:59
Ori leads with educational content and classes and he's building a platform that helps him
2:03
rise above the noise.
2:04
Want to learn more about how we do that?
2:06
You can go to mortgage marketing.pro, mortgage marketing.pro.
2:10
Okay, my special guest this week is actually related to our private community.
2:15
I just told you about mortgage marketing.pro.
2:18
We can go check that out.
2:20
See what we do is we have a group of mortgage professionals from around the country who
2:23
every week we gather every Friday and we work on our skill set, our mindset and we also
2:29
bring a special guest in every single month, not only that, but we also help you, the mortgage
2:34
originator, do what I just described, do what Ori, I just told you Ori's story.
2:38
He's a member of our community.
2:39
He achieved those results because he's been in our community and applying what he's learning.
2:45
Going through, we're holding him accountable.
2:46
We've got a community of like-minded professionals who support him and who share best practices
2:51
and how to actually grow and scale your agent referrals without co-calling, chasing, etc.
2:56
So one of the things we do is not only do we meet every Friday, but once a month we bring
3:01
in a very special guest and what I'm going to do is, every once in a while, I release
3:05
one of these behind the scenes episodes of our monthly special guest call because that
3:12
I want to look, I mean, you want to get an idea of what we do in this group.
3:15
Here's your chance to listen into just one example of that.
3:18
So our special guest that we brought on for this month is renowned Instagram expert,
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Jen Herman.
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Jen, if you go to Chatchee PT and you look up best to learn Instagram from, Jen is ranked
3:30
number one outside of Chatchee PT.
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She's ranked as one of the top in the world to learn Instagram from and Jen is a part
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of our community.
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Jen is sharing Instagram insights, how to grow your reach, how to grow your reputation,
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and some cool tips and tricks that you probably haven't heard of before.
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Obviously, you've heard about reels, but did you know that there's a specific length
3:55
for reels if you actually want to grow your reach, understanding Instagram's new metrics?
4:00
What is Instagram prioritizing over reach?
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You hashtag still matter, and is it quality over quantity?
4:08
And then how do you leverage Instagram for showing up on Google SEO?
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Jenna impacts all that in more as part of being our special guest in our private community
4:16
of mortgage professionals where every Friday we meet as I said.
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So if you want to learn more about that group, you heard me shout it out a moment ago.
4:23
It's mortgagemarketing.pro schedule a call with me and I'll walk you through the whole
4:26
thing and see if we are the right fit for each other.
4:30
Make sure what you do though by listening to this episode is you check the links in the
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show notes.
4:34
Go follow Jen on Instagram.
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There's other episode resources in there for you to check out.
4:39
And so without further ado, let's get into this week's show.
4:44
So Jen Herman was on the podcast get this July 2019 episode 130, right?
4:52
And Jen, I'm about to cross 350 on episodes, so it's been a minute, right?
4:58
But Jen, it's funny how you connect with people and then you stay connected because you
5:03
know these people are like the real deal.
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And I love how I will call Jen one of the truth tellers out there because she's not afraid
5:10
to call BS on some things that we hear about Instagram, even if it comes from Instagram.
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And so we're probably going to talk about that.
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But do a little first of all, I put her link in the chat there.
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You all should follow her because, hey guys, I'm sure you know this, but Jen is listed
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as one of the top 20 best Instagram experts to follow in the world.
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All right?
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So we're not invested around folks, we're bringing you the high end people here.
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And so you definitely need to go follow her, subscribe, follow everything that she does
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to the wealth of knowledge, what's interesting to me though is that you actually have a degree
5:49
in forensic science.
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We're going to talk about that, but ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Jen Herman
5:55
to the call today.
5:56
And if you guys have a chance, yeah, thank you so much for being here, I know you're
6:00
busy.
6:01
Okay, so anything you want to tell our group here today about you to set any context?
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So ball, if you've asked chat GPT, I always do this because I bring receipts, if you
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ask chat GPT, it will tell you I am the number one expert to learn Instagram from.
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So you know, I'm just saying, it's not even top 20.
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I tried that, my GPT was down this morning, I also wanted to say that.
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But so yes, this is something that I do, I live, sleep, eat, breathe, all things Instagram
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to Jeff's point, I'm the first person to call out out of Missouri, the head of Instagram
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when he says certain things, because what he's saying isn't wrong, it's just what he's
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saying is for this type of audience, and then there's all these other audiences.
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And in the real estate space and the brokerage space and mortgages and all these types of
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things, you all work differently.
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You are not a B2C company, you don't have a widget to sell.
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You work differently.
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And so a lot of the things that impact you on Instagram are different than how they would
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impact other businesses, they've been working with the real estate industry for years.
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As Jeff mentioned, you know, at least 2019, and before that, I'm actually speaking in
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California Association of Realtors next week in Long Beach, California, and I've been
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at NAR.
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I've worked for a number of brokerages and mortgage companies and that sort of thing
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on a private consulting basis as well.
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So I am familiar with your industry and how things are different.
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So I'm excited to dive into some of these topics with you.
7:34
That's awesome.
7:35
Thank you.
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And just to give you a little bit more context, obviously, this is all mortgage loan professionals
7:38
here, and we or they serve two audiences.
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One is obviously consumer direct, but secondly is what we do here, Jen, is this is a platform
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where I equip them with content and classes to go teach real estate agents on how to succeed
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on various things.
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It includes Instagram, Facebook, chat, TVT, the NAR, settlement, you name it, right?
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This group here leads with education.
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So I just want to give you that context.
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Not people.
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So I love it.
8:05
Yeah.
8:06
Exactly.
8:07
All right.
8:08
I wanted to open up the conversation with I think I told you this before today's haul
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is I wanted to really focus, but you can drive this wherever you want.
8:15
I think when it comes down to it, you always ask people like, what's your biggest challenge
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with social media?
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I know you've heard it.
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It's like, what do I post and all that.
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But I think you tell me, it all comes down to reach an engagement, am I right?
8:27
Yes.
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And this is where I am mad at Instagram right now, because I have always said reach is the
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most important metric.
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And recently, my account flipped over last week, but about a month ago, Instagram has changed
8:41
the primary metric to be views.
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This means that now all posts, real speed post stories, all having metric called a view.
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A view is how many times that post was seen.
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That is different than reach.
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Reach is how many people saw the post.
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Views is how many times it was seen in total.
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So if I see your post three times, that's three views, one reach, right?
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So reach is always going to be technically lower than your views.
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But Instagram has made this switch.
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So now when you go into your insights on Instagram, you're actually seeing view counts.
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And it's very misleading because if you look at, and I live in data, I'm to Jeff's point
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to have two science degrees.
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So I love it, a data analysis.
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When I go into my insights two weeks ago, all my reach data shows me that posts, not
9:36
reals, are my top performing for reach.
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And I know that because I watched my data.
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But now that they've switched to views, reals are my quote, top ranking content because
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I get more views on reals.
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Obviously, I have reals that are six seconds intentionally so that if you look at it and
9:56
you try to read the caption, you've watched that real two or three times.
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There's ways that we're getting more views on reals.
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So it looks like reals is my top performing content, but it's not.
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It's actually posts.
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So I'm navigating this because it's the one that's happened in the last couple of weeks.
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But yes, reach should be your primary metric.
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You can still get that out of all your insights.
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You can still get that out of your overall account insights as well as individual post insights.
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Reach is your baseline.
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If you know that on average, your posts reach 1,000 people, that's your baseline.
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If a post reaches 2,000 people, that is one we want to know more about.
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Why?
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Was it the time of day?
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Was it the time of the week?
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Was it the content?
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Was it the title?
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Was it the colors?
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Was there a person or not a person?
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What made that content perform exceptionally well?
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Similarly, if you have a post that reaches like 200 people, you're like, okay, we missed
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the goal on that one.
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What was wrong?
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All the same questions, but in reverse.
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And over time, you can start to find these trends, and you start moving that reach from
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1,000 to 1,200 to 1,500 to 2,000, and that's how you actually build your reach and distribution
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over time.
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Okay.
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Lots of the impact there, and of course, when you want to chime in and ask the question,
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you can either put it in a chat or raise your hand on a view of whatever.
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All right.
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So for a period of time, I don't know a couple of years or so at least, I've been conditioned
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on.
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I don't know my reach.
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I need to do reels.
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Yes.
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What say you to that today?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And yes.
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And I say that with exhaustion, because if you've ever heard me speak anywhere, if you've
11:41
ever watched any of my videos, I hate reels.
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I hate them.
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I don't like consuming them.
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I don't like filming them.
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I don't like posting them.
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But go look at my Instagram.
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Okay.
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There's a lot of a lot of reels over there.
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So this is a, you know, remember back in the day when Facebook launched Facebook groups,
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and like everyone's like, oh, this is a fun new thing.
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And then Facebook came out and said, you have to have a Facebook group.
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If you want reach and everybody made a Facebook group, because it was the only way you were
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going to get reach and distribution.
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Well, that's how meta Instagram is treating reels.
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They're telling us we have to be there.
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And if you want to take advantage of the platform, you kind of have to be there.
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So you have to be creating reels.
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The key is to do them.
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Period.
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They don't have to be good.
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I am the queen of a one-taker.
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I literally, I'm like, if my camera falls, if I make up words, which I do all the time,
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I don't care.
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I just keep recording.
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I'm a one-taker.
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This is not something where I'm spending three hours editing a video, doing transitions,
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making all these fun animations.
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If you or your clients, your real estate just want to do those things, go for it.
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Go gangbusters on it.
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But you don't have to.
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The key is to start doing it, start doing the reels, pro-tip, reels under 30 seconds,
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get distribution to new audiences.
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I see Tiffany nodding her head.
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She already knows this trick.
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Reels over 30 seconds serve your existing audience.
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If it's over 30 seconds, it will very rarely go into floor and rock and rock.
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That's the cutoff.
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I thought all reels reached new audiences.
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I had a reel that went out.
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It was a minute, minute 19 seconds.
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It went to 9% new audiences, and I was like, screw you in Instagram.
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They typically will not distribute longer form anything over 30 seconds into explore, search
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or recommended posts because most of that content, if people are seeing it for the first
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time, don't have a bandwidth for 90 seconds.
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They're going to give you about five to seven seconds tops and scroll past if you make
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it that long on a new cold audience who's never seen your content.
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We want super short videos for reach and distribution for growth.
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We want the longer reels 30 seconds and beyond to serve your existing audience.
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Those are where you give the value.
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Those are where you give the knowledge.
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Those are where you give the value ad content that our clients, our customers, our target audience
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want, but you can't come out to a cold audience with that longer form content with the way
14:19
the distribution channel they're set up.
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So do we look at the 30 seconds or less as kind of like the bait or whatever the teaser
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is, and then we hope that they then go to our whole file, follow us.
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Yes.
14:31
Yes, absolutely.
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So we want those short videos that are like a one tip thing, right?
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This is not going to be like how to prepare your home for fire season, right?
14:42
That's a long video.
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But you know, what does the new NAR rolling mean for you?
14:50
And it could be something as super simple as like here's two or three really short bullet
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points.
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And that video is nine seconds, 12 seconds long.
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And then that's it.
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And it's like go to my link and bio for more or follow me for more information.
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Like you have some sort of simple call to action.
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And what happens is they come over to your profile.
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If they're if they consume it and they like it, they go to your profile, they're going
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to see all your other content, which probably has more information around that.
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Or here's the advantage to reels.
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If you watch one of my reels and you don't follow me.
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So I get a 12 second reel out to you somehow through distribution, whether it's explore
15:28
recommended posts, whatever it is.
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And you watch that whole 12 seconds or even like eight of the 12 seconds.
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Instagram's tracking that behavior and they go, all right, cool.
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You liked my video.
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So the next time I post a reel, Instagram's going to show it to you again, the new one.
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And if you consume that one, Instagram goes, well, now we know you like Jen's content.
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So it becomes a pseudo follow.
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They're not actually following you.
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You don't have the metric that says they're following you, but they start regularly seeing
16:02
your content in this kind of for you, these recommended posts.
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And so they start seeing more of your content and then they will start seeing the longer
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videos.
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They will start seeing your other posts and their feed recommendations.
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So it's, it, it works to build towards that, even though you may not see the actual
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follower account and corrupt.
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Okay.
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And this is why it goes back again to reach is the key metric because reach doesn't, you
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can reach a whole bunch of people who aren't your existing followers.
16:33
Right.
16:34
Okay.
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Question on the short reels 30 seconds or less, that's that's kind of attraction or
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helping that content gets, gets some views engagement.
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So send us a signal to Instagram to push this out to more people and reach more people,
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right?
16:49
Yes.
16:50
Then knowing the behavior on Instagram, like you said, you got like a three seconds or
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less or whatever on those, on reels in general, I don't know if it's different for
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these specific less than 30 seconds.
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How important is it to have a caption on that video frame that they see?
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It depends on the video.
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So there's kind of like three types of reels.
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So option one is going to be a super short reel.
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You're going to put a few bullet points in the text and you're going to have basically
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no caption.
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It's going to be something, something, you know, basic like, you know, go to my link
17:22
and buy or follow me for more or, you know, it's literally just a short video with a couple
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of things and it's intended to get people to watch that reel on loop two or three times
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to be able to consume the content that's in that reel, not reading a caption.
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That can type of video is you do a super short reel with a very long caption.
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So these ones, someone had posted it up in here that it's like a looping video, right?
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So your video will only be in two seconds.
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I think they're for doing a blank video, right?
17:53
So the idea of being, you put up a title, you put up a text box, something like a question,
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right?
18:00
So, you know, what is not a ruling mean for you?
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And then you write this really long 2000 character caption because you're going to have only
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200 characters, but you flood the caption.
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The idea behind this being, you are going to watch it in the video, you're going to see
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the video to get your attention, you're going to open the caption while you read those
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2000 characters.
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That video is now played eight times, 12 times in your feed.
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So it looks like you really like that content, but you're disseminating the information almost
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as you wouldn't a feed post with a warm caption, you just have a looping video behind it.
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If you do these, do a dark background for your videos.
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The last thing you want for the sake of argument, I'm going to throw Dina or Dina under the
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bus because she's got a very bright background behind her.
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If you put text on that, it's white text on an Instagram video, you can't see that.
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So you want something that's more like just video background where it's dark and the
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white text stands out so people can read it, otherwise they're not reading it.
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The third video is where you're going to do everything in the video.
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So you're going to have a very long video where you have all the information, everything
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they need is in the verbal content that I have throughout you, in which case you have
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a short caption.
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Your caption is basically the title.
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It is basically like what the topic of the video is and maybe a call to action.
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So it depends on how you want to craft your video in terms of how long your caption will
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be.
19:31
Okay.
19:32
I'm going to have to ask it just to make sure I understand this is self-serving so if you
19:40
don't want to get in on something please jump in.
19:42
But I was under the impression that, and maybe we need to clarify, back to the actual headline
19:51
for the video, if you will, being actually text over the video.
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Yes.
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That's how important is that for real.
19:58
That should always be there.
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That is critical.
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And Adam Azari just told us it wasn't and then they released a new test feature that
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proves it is.
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So screw him.
20:07
Here's the thing.
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Your video, when it shows up in explore, a new feed, you know, recommendation, they go
20:15
to your profile, whatever it is, if that video starts playing, they don't know who you
20:19
are.
20:20
They don't know what you're talking about.
20:21
They don't know your face.
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They don't care if it's relevant.
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They're not going to watch it.
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But throwing up that text box across the first anywhere from like point one to one second
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of the video.
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It just has to be on there long enough that when they're scrolling and you start talking
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or the music starts playing and the video starts doing whatever it does, that title is
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a text box on the screen that tells them what that video is.
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It will drastically increase your retention and the views in front of your target audience.
20:51
It will also send some people away that aren't going to watch it.
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That's okay.
20:55
We don't need their view.
20:56
They're not your target audience.
20:57
So having that title as a text box is critical.
21:01
I've always looked at that as the headline for the video.
21:04
Yes.
21:05
Yeah.
21:06
It's just like a book title.
21:07
Right?
21:08
Yep.
21:09
And it can drop off, like I said, within the first second.
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It's just there so that when someone's scrolling and the video starts, they know what the video
21:15
is about.
21:16
Okay.
21:17
This might be relevant to the question I was going to ask you.
21:20
I see Caitlin's question, and let me set this up and answer her question as well, is
21:27
in regards to, like you mentioned, the white background, the white text, et cetera, to
21:34
me using platforms, editing platforms like CapCut or other things to package that video
21:41
to Caitlin's point.
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She feels the pressure to make Instagram and Twitter, real covers.
21:47
What do you say about that?
21:49
So yes, and yes, when it comes to your video, if you want to use something like CapCut
21:58
or another video editing tool, that's perfectly fine.
22:02
But the key is that you still edit within Instagram.
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So if you make this video in its entirety, in CapCut, you upload it to Instagram and say,
22:12
publish.
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Instagram goes, no, no, we know you put that video elsewhere.
22:17
We know it's on TikTok.
22:18
We know it's on YouTube shorts.
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We know it's on LinkedIn.
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We know it's everywhere else.
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This is not original content to Instagram.
22:26
It will reduce your reach on average.
22:29
If you do all you're editing in CapCut, or shit into Instagram, swiping from a filter
22:35
often, that's an edit, put a music behind it that you didn't do in CapCut.
22:40
That's an edit.
22:41
But the text box on that you just mentioned, Jeff, do that in app.
22:44
That's an edit.
22:45
The more these little, tiny, almost minuscule edits are enough to tell Instagram, this
22:51
is original content.
22:53
That video, as it is formatted in Instagram, does not exist elsewhere.
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It will increase your reach and distribution.
23:00
Not exponentially, but these days I will take on reach and distribution I can get.
23:05
So that matters.
23:07
We want to make sure that you're not doing 100% design outside and then just putting it
23:12
into Instagram.
23:14
Now to go ahead.
23:16
Yeah, real quick.
23:17
Just set otherwise.
23:18
What Instagram wants to see is you're using some of their built-in features.
23:21
That's like a, that's like a blip, you know, a sign of life that you're doing some editing
23:26
within the app.
23:27
And so therefore they assume it's native.
23:29
Yes.
23:30
And unique.
23:31
They're still, they're still this, you know, invisible, non-invisible war with TikTok.
23:36
So anything they can do to be like, you didn't put this on TikTok, we want original content
23:42
on Instagram.
23:43
So any sort of edit will help prevent.
23:46
All right.
23:47
What's your thought then about using third party platforms?
23:50
You might have answered it, but I want to be really clear.
23:52
Third party platforms for posting dot, dot, dot, because I remember I'm sure you do as
23:57
well back in the day, social media, marketing world and all these peeps we're like doing
24:01
these studies, right, of comparing posting within flat versus what do you say about that?
24:07
In general, we don't see that being an issue on Instagram.
24:11
I won't talk to the data on Facebook, although everyone tells us it doesn't matter on Facebook
24:16
anymore, but I still question that reality.
24:20
There is no data to support it on Instagram specifically.
24:23
My concern with things like reals, yes, you can't upload it putting a third party tool
24:29
on publish, but it puts you in that it's been edited outside.
24:33
There's no editing within app if you do a scheduling tool.
24:37
So typically what I do, the only content I produce natively on the platform will all
24:42
do stories, but the only content I produce natively on the platform is reals.
24:46
So I will take whatever video I have uploaded to Instagram when I have it done.
24:50
I just save it as a draft.
24:52
I use a scheduling tool.
24:53
I use a goal pulse and I have a note on that day.
24:57
So today I have to get a real out and I have a note that tells me what real to go to.
25:01
And so I literally just go to my drafts find that real and I just get published.
25:05
It's already ready to go.
25:06
I've already done my edits.
25:07
I've already put my cover on it.
25:09
I've already put my caption on it.
25:10
My hashtag is everything is there.
25:12
I just have to publish on the day that I want that real to go out.
25:17
So I do keep all my reals native to the platform.
25:22
I apologize if I am a little slow on the uptake here.
25:26
You're editing the video in Instagram, but you're publishing it from a goal pulse.
25:31
No, videos I publish on Instagram, I do everything on Instagram.
25:35
I just make a note on my scheduling tool to remind me to go publish it on Instagram.
25:41
You're using a goal pulse to send to to remind you.
25:45
Yes.
25:46
Oh, interesting versus publishing.
25:48
Yes, I use Instagram to publish or goal pulse to publish everything else.
25:52
So all my feed, my carousel, all of that goes through goal pulse and it's an auto published.
25:57
But I just use it as a reminder and then I physically go into Instagram to publish.
26:01
Because you want every maximization opportunity possible.
26:06
So that's why you're going to do the videos in Instagram.
26:10
Yes.
26:11
And John, what have you noticed as far as scheduling reals or Instagram posts through meta-business suite?
26:21
It is clunky AF and I avoid it at all costs.
26:25
Yes.
26:26
I just didn't know if you saw me that or not.
26:30
I literally avoid meta-platforms at all costs.
26:36
For that reason, it is one of these things where they try, I don't know how hard they try,
26:41
they try to give us these tools for free access and keeping everything within the platform.
26:47
But it is so unreliable, it is clunky, it is difficult to manage.
26:51
You schedule something and then literally three hours later you're like, where's my
26:54
post?
26:55
It doesn't even exist in meta anymore.
26:57
It's gone.
26:58
You didn't schedule, your video is gone and you're like, where did it go?
27:02
And then it pops back up tomorrow and you're like, cool, well, I don't need it now.
27:06
I honestly avoid the meta-schedule and tools at all costs.
27:10
Thank you.
27:11
That's so funny.
27:12
There are own native tools and just, you know, gosh, you can't get it right.
27:16
You're possible.
27:17
I do want to answer because you did ask about Caitlin's question and I know there's more questions
27:21
popping in the chat.
27:22
I love it.
27:23
I'll stay here for three hours, you guys.
27:24
I really can.
27:25
I'll stay here all day.
27:26
On this.
27:27
I love all your questions.
27:29
So Caitlin asked about the Reels covers and my opinion on this is you do need a Reels cover.
27:36
It doesn't have to be fancy.
27:38
It does not have to be edited in Canva and in Be All Glamrs and perfectly edited to match
27:43
your grid aesthetic.
27:45
But you do need a real cover and with that cover it's going to be essentially whatever is
27:51
in the video.
27:52
It can be a screenshot from the video and it needs the text, the title of the video.
27:58
Ideally, if you can add your brand logo, your brand color, something else that helps.
28:02
But it must be the title of the video because again, what happens is somebody who doesn't
28:07
know you comes to your profile, whether they go to your grid or they go to the Reels tab,
28:12
they're going to see all of these videos.
28:15
They don't know who you are and they're like, which video should I watch?
28:20
And they watch one and it's totally irrelevant to what they're looking for.
28:23
By Felicia, they're gone.
28:25
If they pick the right one, oh, that was good, oh, that was good information.
28:29
Okay, what's the next one I want to see?
28:31
They scroll and find a video five videos down as the one they want to watch because they're
28:35
going off the topic.
28:37
Additionally, hypothetically, you're already following me.
28:41
You saw a video from me last week and you were like, oh, Jen shared that video about hashtags.
28:48
Which video was it?
28:49
If you go to my profile and it's just all my head everywhere, you don't know which video
28:54
was talking about the hashtags, but if the caption or the title is on there, on the
28:59
Reels cover when you're scrolling through, you can be like, oh, great, there's the hashtag
29:03
video she was talking about.
29:04
You found it quickly easily and making it as easy as possible on you as the end user.
29:08
So a lot of times I will literally like, I film right here with my pink background.
29:13
So I will literally sit here and I take a photo and it is literally just a photo in the
29:18
exact time I'm going to film the video.
29:22
If it's a photo, I put the title on it, save it.
29:25
Then I film my video because again, I do a one-taker, maybe two, upload the video and then
29:30
I upload my custom cover.
29:32
So I'm not taking the cover as an actual frame from the video because I don't need that
29:37
face when it has the exact title I want, right?
29:40
Like, I want my original looks like I'm spastic over here.
29:44
So I want to make sure that I have a great angle, have the text where I want it and then
29:49
that becomes my cover, but it looks identical to what they're going to get in the video.
29:53
So it stays cohesive.
29:55
You don't have to do that.
29:56
That's my choice of aesthetic.
29:59
But if you have something you have in Canva, I do all my t-tactics and tenacity.
30:03
It's a live show.
30:04
I do every Sunday morning, whenever I get my t-ready, I do not have a set time.
30:09
That is a set cover.
30:10
It is the same cover every time.
30:12
I just change the title of what that video topic is.
30:14
So that is just the same in my grid over and over and over.
30:17
It's the same photo.
30:18
It's the same thing because that one, I don't want to change the cover.
30:22
I want people to know that everyone they see that is that specific video series.
30:26
So you can choose how you want to mix those in.
30:31
Real quick.
30:32
You guys can keep talking.
30:33
I just wanted to show your reals page here.
30:35
So this will show what you're talking about with all the titles.
30:38
Yeah.
30:39
So you can see I got the t-tactics and tenacity, the titles at the top.
30:42
So when it crops to the square, you don't see the title.
30:44
You just see the square of the t-tactics and tenacity, which basically looks like a podcast
30:48
cover.
30:49
And then all my other ones, most of those are a photo, not a screenshot from the video.
30:56
But some of them are screenshots from the videos and you can tell because like the one
30:58
in the yellow dress, that is a very funny, awkward face and I would not want to make that
31:02
one in the photo.
31:03
That is a screenshot from the video because I'm like, yeah, you got 6,500 views, so there
31:09
you go.
31:10
That one did really well.
31:11
I've been doing really well with that video, so that was good.
31:14
All right.
31:15
We'll come back to your Instagram at a moment.
31:18
If it makes sense, I mean, while I'm looking at this, by the way, I do think it's relevant
31:23
to talk about bios if you want to get on that for a second.
31:27
And the reason why, which is funny, I did a live stream yesterday with somebody on the
31:33
livestream, a mortgage person, and I went to his bio.
31:39
And he was getting advice from someone else, a self-proclaimed coach per se, with social
31:45
and Instagram, to be more of the friend, to be more of the, hey, this isn't about business
31:53
or whatever.
31:54
And I was just looking at a consumer standpoint and going, like, I don't even know
31:57
you're in mortgage, man, how the hell, why would I even, like, if I come to your page
32:02
and I see nothing in the bio that I can connect, so what do you say about bios?
32:07
Yes.
32:08
So, three things in your bio, who you are, what you do, and what's in it for them.
32:15
Those are the three key things that should be in every bio.
32:17
And the what's in it for them can be any variety of things.
32:20
It could be, I'm going to help you buy your next home.
32:23
That could be the what's in it for them, right?
32:25
It doesn't have to be, like, click the link below to read blog posts or whatever it is.
32:29
But there has to be something that tells them, as the consumer, why they should care about
32:35
you, why they should follow your account.
32:37
So, who you are is essentially, some description of you, you know, are you, you know, the
32:44
top ranks realtor in that region?
32:48
Are you, do you specialize with first-time home buyers or do you specialize with, you
32:53
know, people who are empty nesting and downsizing?
32:56
Like, if you have a specialty that you typically work with or a certain region that you work with,
33:00
that could be the who you are or it could be the what you do.
33:03
You get to decide what that looks like, the who you are can also be things related to,
33:07
like, I have in mind that I'm a single mom, you know, that's something that people connect
33:11
with.
33:12
Once they realize I'm an Instagram expert, I'm a speaker, I'm an author, oh, and she's
33:17
a single mom, that becomes the personalized connection.
33:21
So we do want some sort of personal component.
33:24
I always use example, this was years and years ago, but there was a realtor, she was out
33:28
on the East Coast and she, the one thing she changed in her bio was that she put that
33:35
she was a marathon runner and that single statement brought her in multiple new clients
33:42
because people who are marathon runners are a certain parade of people.
33:46
I am not a marathon runner.
33:47
Let me just tell you.
33:48
So that's not going to convince me to work with you, but whether it's a mortgage broker
33:53
or whether it is somebody who is a real estate agent or a coach in the industry, something,
34:01
these are very personal things, like just fun fact, I literally go through interviewing
34:05
broker's brokers right now, turn over my entire life finances to a stranger, to work with
34:14
a realtor who is going to have to go through my entire life experiences with me.
34:20
These are very personal decisions.
34:22
So we do want a personal component in that bio that is relatable.
34:27
And a lot of it does come down to your vibe, your style, who you relate to and that is
34:32
why the bio is 30 second elevator pitch, it's your chance to connect with that new person.
34:39
When somebody is following you, they'll never read your bio again.
34:42
They don't care.
34:43
They're already following you.
34:44
They already know who you are.
34:45
So your bio is for that first time visitor, who you are, what you do, what's in it for
34:50
them, and how can you make that a connection that they actually care about from a professional
34:55
standpoint with a little bit of personalization to it.
34:59
Love it.
35:01
Real quick, don't compel to give a shout out to two people, Liz Reese, what's up, Liz Instagram
35:08
to your main jam, if I'm correct, I'm not, but here's an example of a bio here, right?
35:13
It's clear who she is, what she does.
35:15
She's doing a great job.
35:17
So there's an example of helping you build a clear mortgage plan.
35:20
So that's the what's in it for you, Liz, I'm giving you high fives.
35:23
That's great.
35:24
She's literally telling me what's in it for me.
35:28
She's going to build my clear mortgage plan.
35:29
I'm like done.
35:30
So I need that.
35:32
That's an immediate connection point.
35:34
And then she has, you know, the additional things that she does, you can call her schedule
35:38
free call.
35:39
Liz, I would put a little bit more personalization in here, just a little bit more.
35:42
I mean, I love your glasses.
35:44
I love the vibe just from looking at the screenshots.
35:47
You seem like a very outgoing, lively person.
35:49
I'd love to see a little bit more of a personality explained in your bio, but this is already
35:54
off to a really good start.
35:56
Yep.
35:57
And then real quick, here's another one.
35:59
I know Katie.
36:00
She's got her, I think, a really well structured bio.
36:02
Yes.
36:03
So again, number one, female loan originator.
36:06
Great.
36:07
Number one.
36:08
Great.
36:09
Female.
36:10
Great.
36:11
Do I want to work with a female?
36:12
Because I'm not telling you.
36:13
I'm totally different approach than I'm going to.
36:16
And as a woman, I mean, I'm moving with my boyfriend.
36:18
So we have two perspectives on life.
36:21
But this is something that, you know, that is a big stepping point for some people.
36:26
They're going to want to work only with a woman.
36:28
So they want to know that top 100 women, loan officers in the US, again, qualifying who
36:33
she is, what she does.
36:35
I say buyers time and money.
36:38
What's in it for me as the consumer, she just told me she's going to save me time and
36:42
money.
36:43
And then she's got her personality, right?
36:45
The late bum, the 90s rap experts in search of the perfect espresso martini girl, I want
36:50
to be your bestie.
36:51
So like, already, like, this is a great buy.
36:55
Literally for all of you, I was going to call a screenshot this.
36:58
Katie, I want to use this for future examples and upcoming presentations.
37:02
This is great.
37:03
You are literally hitting on all three of those things.
37:05
It's quirky.
37:06
It's educational.
37:07
It's valuable.
37:08
It's fun.
37:09
It's you.
37:10
I love it.
37:11
Does the blue check mark make any difference?
37:15
In the grand scheme, no.
37:17
As an average consumer, they don't really care if it's there or not.
37:22
It's more of your paying for meta verified, which should give you a little additional security
37:27
and a little additional support.
37:28
But I know two people right now who pay for meta verified and had their accounts taken
37:32
down and it's been three months and still haven't got their accounts back.
37:34
So I don't know what paying $11 a month is really doing for anybody.
37:39
But it is a little bit of a validation.
37:40
And what does happen, a lot of us will get mocked, not mocked, and losing words duplicated
37:50
online.
37:51
Someone will take a clone your account.
37:53
They want to look like you and they want to tack all your followers with crypto or some
37:58
sort of investment.
37:59
So having the check mark can be a little bit of a validation that it is the right account
38:04
that this is really you.
38:06
But how, I mean, most consumers aren't looking for that check mark to say, oh, I know this
38:11
is the real account.
38:12
So it's not a significant value in terms of like the end users.
38:16
Let me jump back into the question feed here.
38:19
What about times the post and following those, do you look at third party like the metric
38:24
red metropole?
38:25
Do you look at your own analytics group best time to post?
38:27
So in general, I tell people time of day does not matter.
38:30
The algorithm does not care if you post at 7 a.m. and I log in at 3 p.m. and I'll always
38:36
see your content.
38:37
I like your content.
38:38
I love your content.
38:39
I'm going to see it at 3 p.m. at the top of my feed.
38:41
If you post at 7 a.m. and I log in at 7 10 and I never interrupt your content, I'm not
38:45
going to see it.
38:47
Time of day does not matter as much as day of the week.
38:51
So if you're only posting two days a week, when is your audience on lot?
38:56
If your audience is coming on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, but you're posting Monday, Tuesday,
39:01
you're not hitting your audience when they are there.
39:04
So we want to make sure that we're thinking more about the day of the week.
39:07
If your audience is typically active during the weekdays, post during the weekdays.
39:11
If your audience is active on the weekends, you want to be posting on the weekends.
39:14
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday is your posting schedule or Thursday, Saturday, Sunday
39:17
or something like that.
39:19
The day of the week matters much more than the time of day.
39:22
So you would suggest looking at your Instagram insights to see when your audience is online?
39:26
Yeah, definitely.
39:27
I mean, Instagram insights are a good starting point.
39:30
They're fairly accurate, but literally, I can guarantee that 80% of you on this call
39:37
are going to go look at them.
39:38
It's going to say it's the same on every single day.
39:41
So if that's the case, you just kind of have to wing it and test it.
39:47
Or if you know your target audience.
39:49
If you know your target audience is working moms, they're not checking their phone after
39:55
school hours.
39:56
Right?
39:57
So they're probably not doing this as much during the day time.
40:02
They're going to be an evening and a weekend type consumer because they're working in the
40:06
day.
40:07
They got the kids home after school.
40:08
They got to get the kids to bed, do all the things.
40:10
And they're maybe checking it at night time, but they're scrolling aimlessly.
40:14
Right?
40:15
So they're going to be more prone to taking your content on the weekends.
40:18
If you are targeting somebody like business people who work in a major city like Chicago
40:24
or New York, who rely on public transportation Monday through Friday, are your key target
40:28
areas because they're sitting there on public transportation, scrolling through their phones
40:32
before and after work.
40:34
And they're there every Monday through Friday.
40:36
So that's your target window.
40:38
So you start to figure out what their behaviors are based on who your target audience is.
40:43
And to Travis's point are audience's realtor is they're on online all times a day, seven
40:48
days a week.
40:49
Exactly.
40:50
Okay.
40:51
So what is your in terms of deciding the type of content, you know, I got reals, I got
41:01
carousels, I just got feed posts, you know, if we're looking to grow stories, yeah,
41:09
sorry, I forgot about stories.
41:11
What should we prioritize if we're looking to expand our reach?
41:15
So what I typically tell people, and this is to recalibrate your baseline.
41:20
And so if you're posting every single day, it's probably too much.
41:25
You should not be posting seven days a week on average.
41:28
Okay, when I saw the go wood, everyone tells you to post every single day.
41:35
Honestly, no, I'm currently about a five day a week.
41:37
I sometimes push until like a six, but I'm at about five days a week that I post.
41:42
And that is for them in a current test phase to test doing more reels.
41:46
Normally I'm about four times a week for my personal content.
41:49
I tell most quote small businesses three to five times a week is going to be your sweet
41:53
spot.
41:55
You do not need to be creating content seven days a week.
41:57
And if you are, you're probably hurting yourself because on Instagram, quality matters
42:02
more than quantity.
42:03
Now, reels, it's a little bit more balanced and quantity matters more.
42:08
But for feed posts, carousels, those sorts of things, it's really about the quality because
42:13
if I put up content to check the box, I posted a piece of content and it's not good.
42:18
It doesn't resonate with the audience.
42:19
It's not a good visual.
42:20
It's not a good value ad.
42:22
It's not entertaining.
42:23
It's not whatever it is.
42:24
If you scroll past my content and don't interact with it in any way, shape or form, you
42:28
don't stop.
42:29
You don't watch.
42:30
You don't swipe.
42:31
You don't open the caption.
42:32
Whatever it is.
42:33
That could have ranking algorithmically.
42:35
So the next time my content shows up in your feed, Instagram waits to see how you react
42:39
to it.
42:40
You scroll past it because it's mediocre content.
42:42
Instagram goes, okay, you're really not liking Jen urban these days.
42:46
And I start ranking lower and lower and lower in your feed.
42:49
However, if every single time I post, you swipe that carousel, you read that caption,
42:56
you go, you scroll back and read it again because you wanted to take it in.
43:00
Instagram starts putting me at the top of your feed.
43:03
They want, they know that you want my content, so they want to put it in front of you.
43:07
So I would rather you post once a week and have it be epic, amazing content than post
43:14
seven days a week and have it be mediocre content.
43:17
It will hurt you more to do worse content.
43:21
So quantity is not as important as quality.
43:25
So that being said, would I typically recommend if you want to recalibrate and figure out what's
43:28
working for you?
43:30
Go to three times a week, maybe four, but three times a week do one real, one feed, one
43:35
carousel.
43:36
You're going to do this for six to eight weeks.
43:39
So you're doing one real week, one feed post, it means a single photo with a caption and
43:44
one carousel where they have to, they can swipe through two to twenty slides in the carousel
43:49
and a caption.
43:50
Do this for six to eight weeks and you will know what your audience actually wants.
43:56
You will know what is getting distribution.
43:59
It takes six to eight weeks for the algorithm and your audience to adjust to your change
44:03
in content.
44:04
So if right now you're doing four reals a week and that's all you're doing, you're alienating
44:08
your feed audience.
44:09
You don't know if they're even seeing your content.
44:12
And like fun fact, I would rather be in the feed than in reals, right?
44:15
So if you're only creating reals, I'm not seeing your content versus somebody who only
44:19
looks at reals if you're only creating fields or feeds, they're not seeing your feed post
44:23
because they're always in reals.
44:25
So this allows you to start figure out what your audience wants, what's driving the views,
44:30
what's driving the traffic, what's driving those conversions to your website.
44:34
You may find reals are really, really good for exposure, top of funnel, getting a ton
44:39
of engagement likes and comments.
44:41
But when you want someone to actually go check out those MLS listings, when you have
44:45
someone who wants to actually fill out that intake form, when you have someone who wants
44:49
to learn more about your business, that may be coming from carousel.
44:53
So this routine of three posts a week for six to eight weeks will help you calibrate
44:59
and figure out what works for you, regardless of what me or any other expert in the world
45:03
tells you you should be doing.
45:07
Carousel Tony is, if you go into Instagram, there's a bunch of dots under the photo and
45:13
you can swipe horizontally through a carousel.
45:17
So you can have, if you go to that one in the scroll down, I haven't done a carousel.
45:22
Yeah, that one actually is one.
45:23
So there's multiple slides in the carousel.
45:26
And so there can be photos and or videos.
45:30
But it's anywhere from two to 20, what we call slides.
45:34
So the carousel, you're swiping horizontally through the content.
45:38
Thank you, that was so great.
45:43
This has been awesome.
45:44
This is, I mean, I've taken more notes than I've done a while.
45:49
Great.
45:50
Love it.
45:51
So while I'm here, let's jump into the debate over hashtags, dead, relevant, a lot,
45:59
what do you, because you have a lot of them.
46:03
So, and here's the thing, if you really, because I could talk hashtags for the next 48
46:07
minutes, if you really want to, I have, if you go to my, either my Instagram account and
46:12
go to link and buy or go to my website, gentstrends.com, go to the books tab.
46:16
It's that ebook right there at the top of my feed.
46:19
It's called hashtags unlocked.
46:20
So if you scroll down a little bit, you'll see, I have a free ebook on 12 reals ideas.
46:25
That one right there is a $9 ebook.
46:27
It's called hashtags unlocked.
46:29
It's a 20 plus page PDF that walks you through everything you need to know about hashtags,
46:36
why they matter, dispelling all the myths, how to find the hashtags that actually matter
46:41
for you, gives you a worksheet in there.
46:43
So you can actually create your list of hashtags.
46:46
It even gives you a hypothetical that says, you know, if Instagram was to stop letting
46:51
us use 30 hashtags because they did that for a little while, it was a glitch that they
46:56
weren't supposed to roll out, but we all saw it.
46:59
If that happens, here's how to prepare for that.
47:01
Here's what to do now if that changes.
47:04
So that being said, yes, hashtags matter.
47:06
They are one of the key indicators for keyword search.
47:09
So if somebody goes to Instagram, now they can do keyword search.
47:14
You couldn't do this four years ago, this rolled out in 2020.
47:17
Now I could say, you know, Laguna Beach real estate, and I can type that in as a keyword.
47:23
And Instagram is going to populate a series of results of content that match that keyword.
47:31
What Instagram is looking at for those keyword searches is specifically your profile description
47:37
does your profile description talk about real estate and Laguna Beach.
47:40
You're just going to look at that individual post caption, does that caption talk about
47:44
real estate in Laguna Beach?
47:46
And it's going to look at your hashtags.
47:48
Do your hashtags talk about real estate and Laguna Beach?
47:51
The hashtags are where you can keyword stuff.
47:55
We don't want to keyword stuff like, you know, like it's 2002.
47:57
Okay, we're not doing that in our captions, but your keywords allow you to put that description
48:04
in there.
48:05
So this is not like you don't have to do back in the day where you had to do like hashtag,
48:08
you know, restaurant hashtag, restaurants, you know, like you back in the day, you back
48:13
to hashtag, you don't need to go that extreme.
48:16
But we do want to make sure you're putting things in there for the local geographical
48:19
areas that you serve that, you know, people looking for mortgages.
48:23
What are the keywords associated with that people looking for homes or the keywords associated
48:27
with that?
48:28
We want those in there.
48:29
And why this matters?
48:30
And literally just pulled this example for a presentation last month.
48:34
I put in a camera, I think it was like real estate, no, it was, it was homes, Newport
48:40
Beach.
48:42
The number one post that came up in that search result was a carousel from two years
48:50
ago.
48:51
Years ago, that was the number one post because it was the best ranked post between hashtags
48:59
and then caption and their description of their bio and it was a construction company.
49:04
It wasn't even a real estate person.
49:06
It was a construction company and they were the number one top result in a whole list
49:12
of thousands of search that post was over two years old.
49:15
So that is why the hashtags are so important.
49:18
They will rank your content forever.
49:20
And so we don't want to stop using them, but key to success right now, those hashtags
49:25
have to stay in the caption.
49:27
We cannot put them in a comment for keyword search.
49:31
In a comment, they still work for hashtag search, but the hashtag algorithm will only scrape
49:36
the data in the caption for ranking for keyword search.
49:40
So we want to make sure that you are leaving those hashtags in the caption.
49:45
I'm sorry if I missed it, but did you say there was like a range of number of hashtags
49:49
to use?
49:50
You can still use up to 30.
49:52
I recommend a minimum of 20.
49:55
So the more, the better.
49:57
So then that gets to, like, how do I know, you know, hashtag research, right?
50:01
I think you might have mentioned in the search in your book, but we want to make sure we
50:04
use your relevant hat.
50:05
We don't want to be just stuffing for the sake of hitting 20.
50:08
And you don't want to use hashtag real estate, like that doesn't help because it's too big.
50:14
It's literally a bajillion posts and it's a global hashtag.
50:18
It's not going to help you.
50:20
We want real estate and then the state or the city or the neighborhood or the specific
50:25
region you serve.
50:27
We want those related real estate hashtags.
50:30
We want things again, homes, city, state, community, whatever it is.
50:35
We don't want to use the big broad, you know, millions and millions and millions of posts
50:39
associated with the hashtags.
50:40
We want to keep it narrower because we're especially in the real estate, the mortgage industry.
50:47
For the most part, you're a geographically centered business, right?
50:51
I mean, some people will work in various regions, but for the most part, I'm not going
50:55
to hire a mortgage broker in New York if I live in California, right?
50:59
Like there's different laws, there's different regulations and we want to focus on those
51:04
regional components that we are showing up in the searches where our audience is searching.
51:09
Also think about things that are related to what your audience is looking for in the middle
51:14
of the night when they have insomnia.
51:16
They're not looking for homes, they're looking for design ideas, they want to remodel
51:21
their kitchen.
51:22
They want to, you know, they want to remodel their, their bathroom, they're looking for
51:26
home decor ideas, they're looking for, you know, tips on how to decorate for Halloween.
51:32
So it's not limiting your hashtags just the real estate and mortgage industry.
51:37
We want to use things and create content and use those related hashtags as it relates
51:43
to those, like, additional kind of, you know, ancillary things that your target audience
51:48
is looking for.
51:49
Okay, so to that point, Glenn asks, should we use location like at Las Vegas, right, in
51:55
my post?
51:56
Yes, if possible, when you are writing out your caption, listing it, tagging the location
52:04
can help as well.
52:05
And it's up to you how often you want to tag the physical location or, but you want as
52:11
much as possible, be using the words Las Vegas San Diego, like, even San Diego, I live
52:16
in a very small little tiny community, San Diego is a big space, right, even Las Vegas.
52:20
It's a big space.
52:21
There's little sub communities you'd want to say, you know, sub community in Las Vegas
52:25
kind of thing.
52:26
Like, so you'd want to list those things out within there.
52:30
Um, yes, Caitlin, I'm here, let's get together.
52:35
So Michael just said, he said, is it being redundant, uh, if we do long captions, do we
52:42
need the hashtags?
52:43
If you have a long hat or a long caption, hashtags are less necessary.
52:49
You still want them.
52:50
You could use five to 10.
52:52
If you have a good long descriptive caption, you can use less hashtags.
52:56
But if you're doing that one sentence, kind of, this is the title of the reel, you want
53:01
to stuff as many hashtags in there as possible.
53:04
If you have a little kind of quirky, fun, little statement, dump your hashtags because
53:09
hypothetically, if I take a photo of me at the beach, and I'm talking about, you know,
53:15
the fact that this is like work from anywhere.
53:18
Look at me, San Diego sun, blah, blah, blah, blah.
53:22
That's great.
53:23
The video and the content is all about being at the beach.
53:25
Instagram doesn't know that that's related to work, that it's related to a certain industry
53:30
that it's related to coaching or, you know, whatever it is.
53:33
So I want to use those hashtags so it's still ranking in content for those specific keywords
53:39
because the video and the visuals show nothing in context to what the hashtags would actually
53:46
relate to.
53:47
Hey, Jen.
53:48
I should have a player.
53:49
Yeah.
53:50
I was told by someone who's supposed to be a social media expert internally at our company
53:53
that, not for hashtags, she actually said we'll use a couple hashtags, which maybe
53:57
is a good precedent for my question here in the person I'm talking about.
54:01
But more so that, including longer captions with real estate keywords or keywords in general,
54:06
will help with not just Instagram optimization, but also like SEO search, is that true?
54:13
And so, yes, fun fact, that video that's doing really well on my Instagram account.
54:17
It's exactly that topic.
54:19
There's actually a setting on Instagram.
54:22
You can go into your settings and you can go into your, I think it's under, maybe under
54:26
security of privacy, I get remember, because it's done that video a while ago.
54:31
And there's a setting to toggle on, be found in internet searches.
54:37
So you want to toggle that setting on.
54:40
If that setting is turned on, it increases the chances that you'll show up in regular
54:43
SEO.
54:45
And yes, that's where the big good descriptive captions are helpful because Google is now
54:51
trolling Instagram for search results.
54:55
Just did not happen two years ago.
54:58
So now we have the additional opportunity at found in search where, yes, if someone's
55:02
saying, you know, good mortgage brokers in, you know, Anaheim, California.
55:09
Now Google is going to start being like, well, here's an Instagram post that talks about
55:14
this exact topic about how to find a mortgage broker in Anaheim, California.
55:19
So those are things that will help with that long term SEO.
55:24
We do want to use good descriptive captions that use the relevant keywords, but again,
55:28
this is not keyword stuffing like, you know, 2002 where we're just literally, like, this
55:34
is a new trend.
55:35
Please don't do this.
55:36
The new trend is instead of putting hashtags at the bottom of your caption, you literally
55:40
just put a stack of keywords.
55:42
Don't do this.
55:43
Please don't.
55:44
Instagram gets smart to these spammy tactics very quickly.
55:47
And they will find a way to block that.
55:49
It will literally be like, if we see a block of keywords, we're not going to scan it.
55:54
So don't rely on that.
55:56
It quote unquote works right now, but I'd rather you use the hashtags rather than a block
56:00
of keywords because the block of keywords looks weird.
56:05
Hashtags people expect on Instagram.
56:06
We all know they're going to be there.
56:07
We expect to see them.
56:08
So it's not going to like, you know, deter them be like, hey, why is there a bunch of keywords
56:13
in here?
56:14
This has been amazing.
56:15
I've heard anybody who wants to go deeper with Jen.
56:17
She's obviously ChattyBT, number one person to work with Instagram, and she's a wealth
56:23
of knowledge.
56:24
But just to remind you, there are other ways to engage, and I'll allow you to comment
56:28
on this as well.
56:29
Jen, but back to her Instagram profile, her link tree link.
56:32
Right?
56:33
Of course, there's the hashtag book.
56:35
There's the ebook of the 12 reals ideas.
56:37
But she's also available for virtual webinar and in-person conferences.
56:40
Maybe you guys want to do something in your area.
56:43
Do something virtually for realtors.
56:45
She'll do an Instagram audit.
56:47
She's available for 101 consultations.
56:49
She's written a bunch of books.
56:51
So I would definitely encourage you if you, this is just the tip of like the iceberg.
56:54
If you want to go deeper with her, she's got tons of resources.
56:58
And we put a link in the chat for that.
56:59
So Jen, thank you so much.
57:01
Everybody, happy Friday.
57:03
Go apply at least one of the things you learned here today and follow, you know, her
57:08
guidelines that she shared.
57:09
So if you guys are on the next one, jump to the Facebook group leader
57:12
and win the week in there.