Latest / The Insurance Growth Lab / The Story Behind one of Nationwide's Most Successful Marketing Campaigns with Brad Barnett
Transcript
- Brad [0:00:00]: The real crux of, you know, the secret sauce of it working was the brilliance behind bringing the Jingle back. Brad [0:00:06]: I mentioned like, consolidating brands to nationwide, it has one of the most recognizable jingle in nationwide is on your side. Brad [0:00:14]: So it wasn't just... Brad [0:00:15]: We're now in the Nfl. Brad [0:00:16]: We have paid manning. Brad [0:00:18]: It was bring back this jingle that millions of people love. Callan [0:00:26]: Welcome to The Insurance Growth Lab. Callan [0:00:27]: Where we go deep on the growth campaigns and strategies driving real results in the insurance industry. Callan [0:00:34]: I’m Callan Harrington founder Flashgrowth and in each episode, I sit down with marketing and growth leaders from carriers and shirt tech and top brokers to break down one specific initiative, whether it's how they marketed a product, scale to channel or solve a specific growth challenge. Callan [0:00:51]: It's no fluff, just tactical insights you can apply in your own funny. Callan [0:00:56]: Today's guest, we've got Brad Barnett. Callan [0:01:02]: If you're not familiar with Brad he's an independent consultant needs a former Vp of enterprise marketing at nationwide, Brad had a really, really, really interesting time at nationwide. Callan [0:01:12]: He managed over three hundred million in annual media spend, it had a over a fifty million dollar portfolio of sports and entertainment and talent. Callan [0:01:21]: That's a huge huge budget and portfolio. Callan [0:01:24]: When I think was really interesting is when you think of all those ads, there's ones that you... Callan [0:01:29]: Everybody knows with the Jingle and the chicken par and paid manning of bread Pai and all those things, Brad was behind the scenes on all that. Callan [0:01:37]: So as you can imagine this made for a really, really interesting episode. Callan [0:01:42]: We dove into all things Nfl, Payton manning went into the behind the scenes on how these things really come together. Callan [0:01:52]: For me, I've always been really, really interested in that because it seems like it's such a giant production, and like anything when you break it down, it becomes much much more doable. Callan [0:02:02]: Not to say it's not super impressive because it definitely is. Callan [0:02:06]: When you think of how long that campaign has ran is continuing to run, it's super impressive. Callan [0:02:13]: So this is gonna be a great episode for anybody that either just finds that really interesting and wants to know how these things come to fruition, as well as those people that are kicking off these big partnerships with groups like the Nfl, F one, and any of these other major major names that are front and center. Callan [0:02:31]: This is a great episode because we really get into the weeds on them. Callan [0:02:34]: So with that, I hope you enjoy the episode and let's get to the show. Callan [0:02:38]: Brad, I'm super excited though we can get this on the books for one. Callan [0:02:49]: Yeah. Callan [0:02:49]: And then two, Brad [0:02:50]: I'm super. Callan [0:02:52]: Takes some doing. Callan [0:02:52]: And I'm super excited to ask this first question. Callan [0:02:56]: When you hear the word crowd please. Callan [0:02:59]: What what does that mean to you? Brad [0:03:04]: It'd be interesting if you asked other people what their answer would be. Brad [0:03:08]: Here's what it means to me. Brad [0:03:09]: So one of the things that people know about me is I have a probably too much of a affinity towards Karaoke. Brad [0:03:15]: Too much. Brad [0:03:16]: Too much. Brad [0:03:17]: Too. Brad [0:03:17]: Yeah. Brad [0:03:18]: Now here's the deal. Brad [0:03:18]: I've I tried to kinda par back because I felt like, you know, if you're hanging out with people. Brad [0:03:22]: I feel like people would know that I would wanna do it. Brad [0:03:24]: Yeah. Brad [0:03:25]: And then they would do... Brad [0:03:25]: So I'm like I need to take a step back on this thing out. Brad [0:03:27]: And I like it too much. Brad [0:03:28]: So I don't really know why. Brad [0:03:30]: I've... Brad [0:03:30]: I've always loved music, and I can't really... Brad [0:03:32]: I'm not a great singer. Brad [0:03:33]: Like, if I could do one thing, it I'd probably rap would be the best thing you. Callan [0:03:37]: I but there's another funny that. Callan [0:03:38]: It doesn't hold me back Brad [0:03:40]: from trying to sing right. Brad [0:03:41]: But your your joke, like, I keep songs saved on my phone just in case the time comes up to go sing something. Brad [0:03:49]: Crowd please are are the ones where you know. Brad [0:03:51]: It is gonna slay. Brad [0:03:52]: Would every everyone everyone in there is gonna be up. Brad [0:03:57]: So it's gonna be, like, your sweet Caroline. Brad [0:03:59]: Your bond Jo. Callan [0:04:01]: Yeah Brad [0:04:01]: the. Brad [0:04:01]: The thing that... Brad [0:04:02]: You know, what's the village you one I can't even think about it right now? Brad [0:04:04]: Yeah. Brad [0:04:05]: Yeah yeah. Brad [0:04:06]: Everyone knows Panama. Brad [0:04:07]: So it's like the ones where You know, nothing kills the vibe more Karaoke when someone goes up, sing some obscure song that only they know. Brad [0:04:14]: Yeah. Brad [0:04:14]: And nobody Callan [0:04:15]: else knows Yeah. Callan [0:04:15]: Or like Essence. Callan [0:04:16]: Right. Callan [0:04:17]: Makes that not an easy one ontario. Brad [0:04:20]: Right. Brad [0:04:20]: Right. Brad [0:04:20]: So if you're gonna go in there, guaranteed success is single crowd, please. Brad [0:04:24]: Here's what I always tell people though. Brad [0:04:25]: It's like marketing. Brad [0:04:26]: You gotta go in and you do a quick segmentation of, like, what's the audience? Callan [0:04:31]: Yeah. Brad [0:04:31]: Is it a country audience? Brad [0:04:32]: Is it an an R and b audience? Brad [0:04:34]: Is it a rap audience? Brad [0:04:35]: Yeah. Brad [0:04:35]: Because then you try and tailor the song to that? Brad [0:04:38]: Too much thinking? Brad [0:04:39]: Has gone into this. Callan [0:04:41]: Well, maybe. Callan [0:04:41]: If, we'll see how much of your career has been attributed to this. Callan [0:04:47]: So and and it might be just the right amount of thinking. Callan [0:04:49]: You, so in a little bit of backstory for the audience. Callan [0:04:52]: This came up at one of the dinners that that you host you host the a dinner of marketing executives and and other executives just in town. Callan [0:04:59]: And when you pulled out the phone. Callan [0:05:00]: He holding on the phone. Callan [0:05:03]: I was like, whoa. Callan [0:05:04]: He was like, I've got him categorized. Callan [0:05:06]: I'm like, okay. Callan [0:05:07]: And that's where crowd please came up, And I was like, that is actually genius. Callan [0:05:11]: Now my favorite part about all of this was when you said, guys we'll talk about, get a long career at nationwide managed over a three hundred million dollar annual media budget. Callan [0:05:20]: When somebody manages over a three hundred million dollar annual media budget, the agencies are going to take notice. Callan [0:05:27]: Yeah. Callan [0:05:27]: Right Exactly. Callan [0:05:28]: Yeah. Callan [0:05:28]: What happened when the agencies took notice of the fact that you loved Karaoke. Brad [0:05:33]: I mean, that's always a thing because, if you're in marketing, like, your agency partners are, like, connected at your hip. Brad [0:05:38]: Yeah. Brad [0:05:38]: Absolutely. Brad [0:05:39]: If you run your agencies the right way, they're in your meetings, it is not a vendor relationship. Brad [0:05:44]: It's a partnership. Brad [0:05:45]: And anything naturally happens where you have dinners, you have events and that kind of thing, And so that was probably one of those times where I could tell, like, okay, the agencies no. Brad [0:05:53]: So we've gotta stop doing this, because we only doing more, like, you know, group building, team bonding, karaoke tiny of things anymore because I know that not everybody likes that. Callan [0:06:03]: So yeah You gotta watch out because Brad [0:06:04]: of the agency folks like they find out. Brad [0:06:06]: They're gonna they're gonna go after it. Callan [0:06:07]: Oh, it would be my first. Callan [0:06:08]: Yeah. Callan [0:06:09]: That's probably all we would do. Callan [0:06:10]: So I think it's also good feedback coming from It's like, okay. Callan [0:06:13]: Well, maybe pump to brakes. Callan [0:06:14]: Exactly. Callan [0:06:15]: Yeah. Brad [0:06:15]: But know yourself a little bit. Brad [0:06:16]: Have some awareness. Brad [0:06:17]: Right? Brad [0:06:17]: So you tell people have some awareness. Callan [0:06:19]: To transition a little bit. Callan [0:06:20]: Yeah. Callan [0:06:20]: You spent twenty years at nationwide ahead, I think nine different promotions while you were were at nationwide, started on the product side. Callan [0:06:29]: Yeah. Callan [0:06:30]: One of things I'm curious about is how much did starting out on the product side, help you when you transition to the marketing side? Brad [0:06:37]: I I actually tell people it's something I intentionally had that journey in mind? Brad [0:06:41]: I mean, my career is kind of like, a little bit of a squiggly line. Brad [0:06:44]: It was not just bottom left to upper right. Brad [0:06:46]: It kinda ended up that way, but I was someone who kinda wanted depth, So I would take lateral, Yeah. Brad [0:06:51]: In certain situations. Brad [0:06:52]: I mean, not to go too far in into my back, but like, I went to undergrad for management information system. Brad [0:06:57]: So it was a very technology Yeah. Brad [0:06:59]: Focused degree. Brad [0:07:00]: And I was that kid, he went to undergrad Not exactly sure what he you wanted to do. Brad [0:07:04]: Setting behind the desk and figuring out like, okay. Brad [0:07:06]: Well, technology, security. Brad [0:07:08]: Gotta be kind of important in the future. Brad [0:07:09]: Maybe I should go this route. Brad [0:07:11]: Yeah. Brad [0:07:11]: Not that I hated it at all. Brad [0:07:12]: Was pretty good at it. Brad [0:07:13]: But when I finished, I was like, I don't wanna sit behind a desk and code. Brad [0:07:16]: I just didn't feel like that was really bringing pure enjoyment out for me. Brad [0:07:20]: When I didn't know at the time was, like, having a technology foundation helps in almost any job that you're gonna be in. Brad [0:07:26]: But it anyways my passion became, like, I wanna get inside of a big company, find something I'm really good at passion about and hopefully that can kind of, like, grow into what I do with my career, and Nationwide became that. Brad [0:07:35]: And nationwide wanted a a fantastic Fortune one hundred company. Brad [0:07:38]: It's one of those places. Brad [0:07:39]: I just mentioned kind of that career you can only do that in certain companies where the had that much variability to go do different things and and it was honestly, one of the biggest things that kept in there for twenty years was I never felt like I was dying. Brad [0:07:49]: It was always like, you were growing, being stretched being tapped, working on new things. Brad [0:07:53]: And I credit when I made the transition to marketing. Brad [0:07:56]: I credit being good at marketing earlier because of the product knowledge I gained, not to jump ahead, but like, I think one of the biggest things marketers should be good at is understanding the business. Brad [0:08:06]: Every business that you work on, especially like a nationwide I worked on about every business unit at one point. Brad [0:08:12]: They're so different. Brad [0:08:13]: They're so nuanced, how they make money is different. Brad [0:08:15]: Their customers are different. Brad [0:08:16]: Their distribution is different. Brad [0:08:18]: If you wanna be an effective person at the table across leadership. Brad [0:08:22]: If you want to be somebody that they seek out your opinion, you have to know their business Yep in some way. Brad [0:08:27]: And so I understood pricing strategies and how we made money and how to actually develop products and roll them out across fifty different states and I got really good at that and then made the leap to marketing, but I do credit kind of early on in marketing being good at that because of the background that I gained in product. Callan [0:08:44]: I, a hundred percent believe that, and I hear that all the time from people that ended up in an executives. Callan [0:08:48]: They're, like, well, spend time product. Callan [0:08:50]: Spend time claims. Callan [0:08:51]: Yes. Callan [0:08:51]: And it makes complete sense. Callan [0:08:52]: I was fortunate I started out as an agent. Callan [0:08:54]: And I saw I became an agent. Callan [0:08:56]: Yeah. Callan [0:08:56]: I've heard that path too. Callan [0:08:57]: I tell people within insured tech companies in particular. Callan [0:09:00]: Right? Callan [0:09:01]: Because ensure techs will come in oftentimes and, like, they've got a great product. Callan [0:09:05]: It's really interesting. Callan [0:09:06]: But they haven't spend any time within an agency. Callan [0:09:08]: So it's like, and they'll said, what's your opinion on. Callan [0:09:11]: Like it is it's super interesting product. Callan [0:09:12]: Like, you've got a really advanced technology that'll never work in an agency. Callan [0:09:15]: Yeah. Callan [0:09:16]: If you go in, Brad [0:09:17]: you don't have that connection for sure. Callan [0:09:18]: Yeah. Callan [0:09:18]: If you don't spend time in that agency to see the workflows and, like, how do they operate on a day to day? Callan [0:09:24]: Forget it. Callan [0:09:25]: And it's not that it can't happen at some point, it's just... Callan [0:09:27]: You're gonna try to force around peg to a square hold. Callan [0:09:30]: It's just not gonna happen. Callan [0:09:31]: So I I love that. Callan [0:09:33]: I could totally empathize with that. Callan [0:09:34]: What do you think was like, one of the biggest contributors to that success. Callan [0:09:40]: Was that the... Callan [0:09:41]: That you had this broad experience? Callan [0:09:43]: You had this business experience can talk about multiple different lines. Callan [0:09:46]: I saw. Callan [0:09:46]: I mean, you're on the commercial side, personal side. Callan [0:09:49]: Like, you did a lot? Callan [0:09:50]: Yeah. Callan [0:09:50]: What do you what do you attribute that to? Brad [0:09:52]: Yep. Brad [0:09:52]: Here's what Say first of all... Brad [0:09:53]: My goal aspiration aspirational, like Career wise has always been to be a Cmo. Brad [0:09:56]: And Nationwide had... Brad [0:09:58]: I've worked with a lot of great nationwide Cmos, Jim Whiskey, Matt Ja, Mh. Brad [0:10:02]: Terrence Williams, ramon Jones and Bayer is the Cmo they're now, fantastic leader. Brad [0:10:07]: And Callan [0:10:08]: who knows if Brad [0:10:09]: I'll ever achieve that. Brad [0:10:09]: I don't know. Brad [0:10:10]: But I do think one of the intentional things that I've tried to do is if I could ever get to that point to be a Cmo. Brad [0:10:16]: Is I wanted to be able to be in the shoes of so many people discipline wise around marketing. Brad [0:10:21]: So I wanted to understand media and social media and marketing operations and brand strategy and segmentation. Brad [0:10:28]: I didn't wanna just be this one vertical person because I felt like to get to Cmo, you better have a grasp of how marketing. Brad [0:10:36]: How's... Brad [0:10:37]: Yeah. Brad [0:10:37]: Discipline works. Brad [0:10:38]: And so I tried to get depth at a lot of different things so that if I ever did make it there, and who knows if that'll ever happen, I would have a grasp but being able to sit around the table and so I understand how this all works. Brad [0:10:49]: And so it was a very intentional strategy to try and get really good at all the disciplines that make up marketing. Callan [0:10:55]: Yeah. Callan [0:10:55]: That makes complete sense. Callan [0:10:56]: And because we all know the leaders that go into those positions. Callan [0:10:59]: And then just have to say, like, you can be an executive and not necessarily did the role as an individual contributor and still be very effective. Callan [0:11:06]: For sure. Callan [0:11:07]: Many people are just natural born very good executives. Callan [0:11:10]: That said, it's always very clear, and you're gonna trust the person that you know that has been there more, because they're usually going to... Callan [0:11:18]: Something usually comes up where it's... Callan [0:11:21]: Oh, wait. Callan [0:11:22]: I know, like, what you just said just prove that you know that this is important. Callan [0:11:25]: Similar to what we're just talking about. Callan [0:11:27]: We know that it'll never work for x y z reason and then sometimes, yeah. Callan [0:11:31]: It is nice having fresh blood in there because, like, oh, maybe this will work because we're so jade. Callan [0:11:35]: Absolutely. Brad [0:11:37]: Yeah. Brad [0:11:37]: And even, I'm talking more marketing disciplines too, but you mentioned this too like, I had a a chance to go and experience a lot of different businesses. Callan [0:11:44]: Mh. Brad [0:11:45]: And they're not always easy to learn either. Brad [0:11:46]: I mean, I remember the first time I started leading our farm ranch in commercial ag business. Brad [0:11:51]: Like, I I didn't up at a farm, didn't understand farming. Brad [0:11:53]: And my way of I'm myself and there was. Brad [0:11:56]: I'm going to farm trade shows. Brad [0:11:57]: And I'm sitting there across the desk from farmers. Brad [0:12:00]: And at the time, you probably know this about nationwide deep rooted farm million agriculture heritage. Callan [0:12:07]: Sorry. Brad [0:12:07]: You know, I from the farm. Brad [0:12:09]: I remember one time, I messed up the difference of a beef cow a Dairy Cow and some sort of creative and one of our board members saw that I remember, like, making that mistake. Brad [0:12:17]: And and then Callan [0:12:18]: it's her... Brad [0:12:19]: It turned into a funny discussion with a board member, but, like, when you put yourself in those different situations where you're learning, you're gonna mess some things up as you learn and get better. Brad [0:12:27]: But that was another thing that I was helpful for me in terms of, I think, gaining credibility and getting better as a marketer was that I gotten the chance to... Brad [0:12:35]: Experience a lot of different businesses along the way. Callan [0:12:37]: Yeah. Callan [0:12:37]: I love that. Callan [0:12:38]: Yeah. Callan [0:12:39]: So... Callan [0:12:39]: Okay. Callan [0:12:40]: I wanna jump into the weeds and talk about the main topic that we're we'll probably talk about and that's Nfl payton manning. Callan [0:12:48]: I wanna break all this down. Callan [0:12:50]: Where did it all start? Brad [0:12:52]: Yeah. Brad [0:12:52]: Well, here let me say with this first. Brad [0:12:54]: There's not ever the guy at nationwide or really any job. Brad [0:12:59]: So I had a chance to be in the role at the right time when the category was exploding and spend when it was trying to be in the halves versus the have knots of being a relevant brand to hundreds of millions of people. Brad [0:13:15]: Mh. Brad [0:13:15]: But to get anything done side of that company, takes lots of people to do that. Brad [0:13:19]: And so Jim Mccoy is on our sport... Brad [0:13:21]: On the sports marketing team is one of the best sports marketing guys that exists in the industry. Brad [0:13:24]: Yeah. Brad [0:13:25]: He was very hands on in this, Rick Jackson creative genius. Brad [0:13:28]: Did a lot of the advertising. Brad [0:13:30]: And so I don't wanna ever portray as like, the guy, like, there were lots of people that got to kinda do this. Brad [0:13:35]: But you have to kinda rewind a little bit and say, where where we as a category at that time. Brad [0:13:40]: So call it twenty twelve, thirteen fourteen, the direct to consumer spend was exploding. Brad [0:13:46]: I think it it reached about nine billion at one point. Brad [0:13:49]: The geico codes and progress other the world, we're starting to gain even more traction than We I already had and much in their. Callan [0:13:55]: Right? Callan [0:13:55]: Yeah. Brad [0:13:56]: And they're spending a billion five to two billion. Brad [0:13:57]: There's a ton of economic disparity and kind of, like, the legacy brands so call them the state farms, the allstate states to the nationwide where you've got massive distribution and your expense structure is different. Brad [0:14:09]: And you have progressive and Geico whose expense structure is much cheaper and they can afford significantly more advertising. Brad [0:14:16]: And so you're competing against each other, but the businesses are comprised differently and how much you can afford to spend changes. Brad [0:14:22]: Right? Brad [0:14:23]: And matters. Brad [0:14:23]: So real quick Callan [0:14:25]: Is it. Callan [0:14:25]: Because Geico all direct to consumer and then progressive direct consumer, but independent. Callan [0:14:30]: Yeah. Brad [0:14:31]: They've clearly evolved to, but their cost structure is just different. Brad [0:14:33]: Yeah. Brad [0:14:34]: And so you know, they've been able to afford more spend to drive more of their direct to consumer business. Brad [0:14:38]: And so for us, we weren't spending a billion a billion five. Brad [0:14:42]: You know, if you're trying to find the way in which you can can get relevant. Brad [0:14:45]: We knew at the time live sports. Brad [0:14:47]: Was like, one of the last bastion of being able to get attention. Brad [0:14:50]: Sure. Brad [0:14:51]: And that was even at the time where the digital capabilities that existed today really weren't happening at that time, but you could see that they were going to. Callan [0:14:58]: Yeah. Brad [0:14:59]: And however, many millions of messages people get throughout certain time frame. Brad [0:15:02]: We knew was gonna happen. Brad [0:15:03]: And so we wanted to be able to find opportunities to have stopping power with them and we knew live sports was gonna be kind of a mechanism to do that. Brad [0:15:11]: And so if you know that's where you went head as a brand, you're trying to find the right places. Brad [0:15:16]: To do that. Brad [0:15:17]: You know, the Nfl, is not a secret. Brad [0:15:19]: You know, if you look at, like, the top hundred shows that are reviewed. Brad [0:15:22]: I think eighty of them are Nfl not close. Brad [0:15:24]: Probably even higher than that I can't remember. Brad [0:15:26]: But it's the place in which still cap millions and millions of people every single weekend. Brad [0:15:31]: And so that became a a focus of ours. Brad [0:15:34]: And now you can take a couple of different approaches when you do this. Brad [0:15:37]: Do you wanna just advertise in the game? Brad [0:15:39]: Or do you wanna form a relationship with the Nfl. Brad [0:15:42]: In some ways. Brad [0:15:43]: And by forming a relationship means you're getting an actual category sponsorship with them in some way. Brad [0:15:48]: And so we went Callan [0:15:50]: back and forth on what's Brad [0:15:51]: the right approach for us? Brad [0:15:51]: And what was that to be? Callan [0:15:53]: What did that loyalty What were the pros and cons? Brad [0:15:55]: The main pros that we found was anytime that you have an official partnership with the Nfl. Brad [0:16:01]: It opens up so many opportunities in media for logo exposure for brand exposure, it opens up more opportunities, especially if you're a category, or if you're in a category where building relationships, with distribution partners, matters. Brad [0:16:15]: Mh. Brad [0:16:15]: And, obviously, this does. Brad [0:16:16]: It opens up more access and opportunities for you to create the types of experiences that people wanna come to. Brad [0:16:22]: And so as we kinda went back and forth, I forgot this. Brad [0:16:25]: The third thing was, you'll start to know the identity and culture of your brand too. Brad [0:16:28]: Nationwide is very much a brand with heart. Brad [0:16:31]: It does a lot in the community. Brad [0:16:33]: That's given hundreds of millions of dollars to Nationwide Children's Hospital. Brad [0:16:35]: And it is the core. Brad [0:16:37]: It's part of the culture and identity of that brand. Brad [0:16:39]: Mh. Brad [0:16:40]: And so one of the ways in which we said was an opportunity for us to activate that became the Walter Payton Man the year Yeah word. Brad [0:16:46]: And so this was a chance for us to do further differentiation of the fact that Nationwide is this brand that cares and that became a whole campaign in of itself. Brad [0:16:56]: And so you can't do that unless you have a relationship with the Nfl. Brad [0:16:59]: Yep. Brad [0:17:00]: So we went through that path. Callan [0:17:01]: We felt like that Brad [0:17:02]: was the best approach for us. Brad [0:17:03]: There was a category sponsor already there in Usa? Brad [0:17:07]: Mh. Brad [0:17:07]: And so one of the things that we had to do was go pitch the Nfl and say, can we split the category? Brad [0:17:12]: Can we find a space where both of us can coexist Because Usa serves a very niche audiences audience just? Brad [0:17:18]: Nationwide serves more of a main street mass audience. Callan [0:17:22]: Absolutely. Brad [0:17:22]: And so that became a path for us to kinda pursue, and and we found a way to coexist together. Brad [0:17:26]: Usa is a tremendous brand and got really good teams there, and we c worked and c created together in many different ways. Brad [0:17:32]: That opened up the door for us to become a sponsor, so that we we've found a path in to the Nfl, that became the way in which we can have an official relationship. Brad [0:17:40]: Mh. Brad [0:17:40]: But anytime you do a sponsorship like, you or are dead on arrival unless you have a way in which you're gonna activate it in some ways. Brad [0:17:47]: And so if your entire spend is just based on rights and everything else, the working spend of what it actually gets exposed to people, which drives brand preference and brand differentiation and who you are at your advertising that's your media, it's your entire kind of like, surround sound approach to the sport. Brad [0:18:03]: And so we knew that we had to align media assets? Brad [0:18:07]: We had to align creative assets in this sport. Brad [0:18:09]: Yep. Brad [0:18:09]: So again, the next part is, like, so what does that look like? Brad [0:18:12]: Because you gonna say what's the media strategy looks like? Brad [0:18:14]: What's the creative strategy look like? Brad [0:18:17]: Then you had down a path of creative approach but also talent inside of that too. Brad [0:18:22]: Did you align the entire strategy to this? Brad [0:18:24]: I mean, there's certainly parts outside of that. Brad [0:18:26]: When you look at, like, what's the lion's share of focus? Brad [0:18:28]: Because again, you only get somebody at bats. Brad [0:18:30]: With people at the enterprise level, and and I should kinda reinforce that, I'm talking kind of enterprise level. Brad [0:18:35]: Inside of a company like Nationwide, you have very specific annuity strategies, retirement plan strategies, life insurance auto within those businesses, there are plans that are being activated on a daily basis. Brad [0:18:46]: When you think about the brand at the enterprise level, one brand, which is actually a change that took place kind of during this too was he went to one brand in nationwide, and Nfl became kind of a way in which to communicate that too. Brad [0:18:57]: This was a a huge pillar in being able to kinda pull that off. Brad [0:19:01]: And so you head down this path of what's the right creative approach and who's the right talent and Payton became the top person that you wanted to go after. Callan [0:19:09]: Why was that? Brad [0:19:10]: I mean, his... Brad [0:19:10]: Every score you look at in terms of talent? Brad [0:19:12]: He just crush it. Brad [0:19:14]: Like, his key scores are good, Like is good. Brad [0:19:16]: He's one of those people that cuts across red and blue evenly. Brad [0:19:22]: He's liked almost by everybody. Callan [0:19:25]: Can you break down those q score like? Callan [0:19:26]: Like, what are those? Callan [0:19:27]: And how do you actually measure that? Callan [0:19:29]: Yeah. Brad [0:19:30]: I mean, at a highest level q scores are helping you assess, like, is this the kind of person that your audience would actually, like, Mh. Brad [0:19:36]: In some way, you have people with Really high iq scores You have people with who like low iq scores. Brad [0:19:40]: And so you're you're kind of using that, not as the only way? Brad [0:19:42]: Oh not is the only mechanism, but certainly a big one to say, like, if I put this person in an ad? Brad [0:19:46]: Gonna do well or not. Callan [0:19:48]: Yeah. Callan [0:19:48]: We use that for I mean, Brad [0:19:50]: we've worked with, Dale Hurt Jr and Alex Morgan, and even more broadly in some of the nationwide advertising when you started to activate Music, you had Leslie O Junior and Rachel Pla, and Brad Pai and others. Brad [0:20:00]: And so they all go through this vetting process. Callan [0:20:03]: Yeah. Brad [0:20:03]: And the q scores is just one of many things that you kind of look at. Brad [0:20:05]: But it's at its core it's getting at, like, this aspect of is the audience kind of like this person Mh or not. Brad [0:20:10]: Is there awareness hide? Brad [0:20:11]: Do people know them in some ways because you don't want the advertising to have to be the way in which you're building the talents awareness in some ways, hopefully, you're drafting. Brad [0:20:20]: Yeah. Brad [0:20:20]: You draft existing awareness so to speak. Brad [0:20:22]: Throw all that analysis kinda gravitate towards Payton, and, you know, who you think that he's gonna be somebody that we'll do really well with this audience. Brad [0:20:28]: Do really well, who don't active player At the time keeping that in mind, goes on to win a Super Bowl at the same time too, which is great. Brad [0:20:35]: Obviously fades off into the sunset. Brad [0:20:36]: But pain became the person, and then you start working that part of, like, how do you do the deal? Brad [0:20:40]: Does he wanna work with us at all? Brad [0:20:42]: Does he wanna get an insurance? Brad [0:20:43]: And this was before, you know, payton... Brad [0:20:46]: The joke payton is that he kind of advertise a lot. Brad [0:20:48]: Right? Brad [0:20:49]: Yeah. Callan [0:20:49]: Sure. Brad [0:20:50]: And he makes this joke about himself too. Brad [0:20:51]: And I'm not sure if they saw himself in insurance, but he certainly has made a huge So, yeah, a huge dent. Brad [0:20:58]: I mean, the relationship started in twenty fourteen, it just hit ten years a year ago. Brad [0:21:02]: And it's one of those things that, you know, the team and I give credit to a group there, especially from an advertising perspective of rei imagining something every single year. Callan [0:21:11]: Yeah. Brad [0:21:11]: Because, you, listen, one of Callan [0:21:12]: the main parts, and it wasn't just payton, like, the way in which Brad [0:21:15]: it all came together. Brad [0:21:16]: You have the sponsorship, you align your media assets to regular season games and conference championships, the Super Bowl, etcetera. Brad [0:21:22]: The real crux of, you know, the secret sauce of it working was the brilliance behind bringing the Jingle back. Brad [0:21:29]: I mentioned, like, consolidating brands to nationwide, it has one of the most recognizable jingle in nationwide is on your side. Brad [0:21:37]: And it was in the advertising for a lot of years, but it it wasn't the central focus Yeah. Brad [0:21:43]: Of the advertising. Brad [0:21:44]: And so when Payton came back, I mean, that was the bringing back of the jingle. Brad [0:21:48]: So it wasn't just we're now in the Nfl, we have payton and manning. Brad [0:21:52]: It was bring back this jingle that millions of people love. Brad [0:21:57]: Very famous lady the ad that was launched was the chicken par Taste a good ad. Brad [0:22:02]: And so now you have something, and you could tell, like, it's gonna be something because you can see it showing up in all of your user generated content. Brad [0:22:09]: It's showing up in things like jeopardy. Brad [0:22:11]: It's showing up in Saturday night live as a joke. Brad [0:22:13]: We took the concept of Chicken Par and started doing Chicken Par sandwiches is at Denver Bro games. Brad [0:22:18]: Pizza place to start selling Chicken par pizzas, It was one of those things that just kind of, like, caught on fire. Brad [0:22:23]: Yeah. Brad [0:22:24]: And Payton got so much that Payton kinda jokes. Brad [0:22:27]: Like, he's like I got to dinner and people would just, like jingle to me. Brad [0:22:29]: He's, like, the waiter would come up and be, like, you know, sing and jingle, like, what would you like tonight? Brad [0:22:34]: And so it just... Brad [0:22:35]: It became this fire that really just caught. Brad [0:22:38]: And it helped accelerate the brand, we achieved una needed awareness scores that Callan [0:22:42]: were the highest and the company's one hundred year history. Callan [0:22:44]: And so you Brad [0:22:46]: were getting the results too, it wasn't just doing cool things. Brad [0:22:49]: It was is it actually performing and market in a certain way, and we were getting the brand scores that we'd always kinda of desired. Brad [0:22:55]: What are Callan [0:22:56]: the things that I'm curious about is? Callan [0:22:57]: Am I wrong, but this was a probably a pretty big swing because this had to have aid up a good amount of the budget. Callan [0:23:05]: When it comes to sure. Callan [0:23:06]: The sponsorship alone, probably gigantic. Callan [0:23:07]: So you got the sponsorship and you have all of the creative assets are gonna be go towards actually executing on the said sponsorship. Callan [0:23:15]: You know, if you're putting all that money there, you're not putting money in other places where at this point, Geico and progressive for pretty much ubiquitous. Callan [0:23:22]: They're everywhere. Brad [0:23:23]: Yeah. Callan [0:23:24]: Couldn't or omni present, I should say? Callan [0:23:25]: Am I right Brad [0:23:26]: on that pretty big strategic bet. Brad [0:23:28]: Yeah. Brad [0:23:28]: It was a strategic bet that being in this place. Brad [0:23:31]: Now, keep mind too. Brad [0:23:32]: It's not like it's a one night thing. Brad [0:23:33]: Like, being an Nfl gives you August of February of RELEVANsee. Callan [0:23:38]: Yeah. Brad [0:23:38]: It's not like it, you're dumping all of your money in, like, a two month time frame. Callan [0:23:41]: Yep. Callan [0:23:41]: You got the Yeah. Brad [0:23:43]: You've got lots of pillars throughout the plan that you can activate the brand and show up in a in a meaningful way. Brad [0:23:48]: And so it's not like, it was strategic in terms of, like, you are making sure the investment is sufficient to capture what you need. Brad [0:23:54]: But it wasn't like you were taking the bet where we need to get it all in in a certain very constrained time frame. Brad [0:24:01]: But listen, you have to sell it in. Brad [0:24:03]: This is one of the things that, like, you're talking to the Ceo about, you're talking to the board members about, you wanna make sure everyone is behind this strategy. Brad [0:24:10]: When you show up that visible on those platforms, you gotta keep mind like, they're all watching, all their friends are watching, The last thing you wanna have happened is that the brand shows up in a way that not everyone was prepared for. Callan [0:24:21]: Yeah. Brad [0:24:21]: You have to make sure you're communicating very well across the C suite and the board to kind of roll on a strategy like that. Callan [0:24:29]: Was your pushback on that? Brad [0:24:31]: I don't... Brad [0:24:31]: I don't recall any, like, this is crazy type of pushback? Brad [0:24:34]: I mean, anytime that you're in a business, it's always, like, how much of stuff cost? Brad [0:24:37]: You know? Brad [0:24:38]: And so you have to be very structured on what's the return on investment look like. Brad [0:24:43]: I mean, we have marketing mix modeling that tells us how many customers you're driving. Brad [0:24:47]: We do Roi at a sponsorship level that says, like, how valuable was the sponsorship? Brad [0:24:52]: And are we getting more out of it than we're putting into it? Brad [0:24:54]: And so you have to be really... Brad [0:24:55]: And that's just marketing one zero one. Brad [0:24:57]: Yeah. Brad [0:24:57]: You know. Callan [0:24:58]: Sure. Brad [0:24:58]: So you... Brad [0:24:59]: Hopefully, you're coming to the table with, like, really good data and facts it says, what is it driving to the business? Brad [0:25:04]: And then you just gotta go do it. Brad [0:25:06]: But then you have to have a reporting loop back that says, like, how is it performing and is it doing it the way we thought it would. Brad [0:25:13]: And so I think any marketer, all of our Cmos control that very well in terms of making sure that everybody at, like the appropriate levels. Brad [0:25:22]: And especially, like, all jokes aside. Brad [0:25:23]: The Cfo has to be completely aligned. Brad [0:25:25]: Sure. Brad [0:25:25]: To this. Brad [0:25:26]: I always tell marketers like, you're much more successful when you make friends across the aisle, especially with finance. Brad [0:25:31]: And the more that you can do that and the more that Callan [0:25:33]: you can get alignment the easier things you're gonna be. Callan [0:25:35]: But it's always about the numbers. Callan [0:25:36]: Right? Callan [0:25:37]: You wanna Brad [0:25:37]: make sure you're you're investing in things that are actually driving results. Callan [0:25:41]: One of the things I wanna talk about on this. Callan [0:25:42]: So you mentioned a a word specifically una aided Correct me if I'm wrong on this. Callan [0:25:46]: But una aided is when this is your direct to consumer. Callan [0:25:48]: Somebody saw the commercial and they're going straight to nationwide. Callan [0:25:52]: That's the audience. Callan [0:25:53]: Yep. Callan [0:25:53]: In aided is an example would be if they go through an agent or broker or Brad [0:25:58]: some happens. Brad [0:26:00]: Yeah. Callan [0:26:00]: Yep. Callan [0:26:00]: Yeah. Callan [0:26:01]: And they're they're referring to it and then it comes up. Callan [0:26:03]: I wanna talk about that a little bit. Callan [0:26:05]: Because here's something I found pretty interesting was you gave the talk at the Ana and about the Nfl relationship and and which is a great talk. Callan [0:26:12]: I highly recommends. Callan [0:26:13]: It's on Brad Lincoln. Callan [0:26:14]: If you wanna check that out. Callan [0:26:15]: When I found really interesting was, and I would not have guessed this. Callan [0:26:18]: I mean, makes perfect sense in Hindsight, you touched on this a little bit was the impact that those events that you could bring these any of these intermediaries too. Callan [0:26:29]: Yeah. Callan [0:26:29]: Ends up being like, one of the biggest parts. Callan [0:26:32]: Is that right? Brad [0:26:33]: It is... Brad [0:26:34]: If it's okay. Brad [0:26:34]: Only back up a little bit. Brad [0:26:35]: How how we got there. Brad [0:26:37]: Yeah. Brad [0:26:37]: So I've kind of lived on both sides of the strategy where it was very direct to consumer and then and the pivot happens and it became more about how do we drive more business through all of our millions of distribution partners. Brad [0:26:49]: Yep. Brad [0:26:49]: Or thousands of distribution partners. Brad [0:26:51]: And so one of the ways in which we made that pivot at that time was how do you build experiences that the partners who sell our products to their customers, wanna be a part of. Callan [0:27:04]: Yeah. Brad [0:27:04]: I mean, listen, there's a lot of, like, entertaining that happens because you wanna create something that people wanna come to? Brad [0:27:09]: A hundred percent. Brad [0:27:10]: But The most interesting thing is where most of the value and the positive feedback came was the business partners, the people who are the president of the business and their lieutenant are also there. Brad [0:27:19]: And so you're creating this mechanism of people who sell and the key leaders inside of your company to kind of, like, build those relationships, ask hard questions, we would have town halls and forums that you could conduct the right business meetings to. Brad [0:27:32]: But that was a huge lever to creating incremental growth inside of a kind of a b distribution model, which is how do you create the right kinds of experiences that people can come to, you can build relationships and then hopefully, it leads to more relationships and revenue opportunities kind of down the road, but it's if you're in sales and you're in this kind of, aspect, like, there's so many touch points that happens. Brad [0:27:55]: You're trying to get in the door of an agency or maybe you're in the door of an agency and you're trying to grow the relationship in some ways, or maybe you've already done that and they do a tremendous job for you and you wanna make sure that they know you're grateful for at, all those steps are kind of important to why these events and hate to even use the word events because I feel like that minimized it in some ways because it's so many... Brad [0:28:15]: There's so many tentacles to the experience and the people that are behind the scenes making this happen. Brad [0:28:20]: Can you break that down. Callan [0:28:21]: Like, what does one of these experiences look like? Brad [0:28:23]: I mean, teams are preparing many months. Brad [0:28:27]: Yep. Brad [0:28:27]: In advance of this. Brad [0:28:28]: And that's not just the experience, but you're locking down locations you're locking down hotels you're locking down air logistics. Brad [0:28:36]: You're locking everything down in advance. Brad [0:28:38]: And so it takes a commitment, Callan [0:28:40]: and it takes planning to do that. Callan [0:28:41]: And you're doing research, like, is this place people Brad [0:28:43]: you wanna come to. Brad [0:28:44]: Now if it's when the... Brad [0:28:45]: Within the Nfl aspect of it, you kind of already have a good blueprint of, like, the draft. Brad [0:28:50]: Mh. Brad [0:28:51]: The Super Bowl championships, but also because of the fact that regular season is so good, even just the sixteen seventeen regular season games, people will gravitate towards that as an asset. Brad [0:29:03]: Yeah. Brad [0:29:04]: To drive business. Brad [0:29:04]: And so you're planning months in advance, and that the big stuff takes even longer as you as you might imagine. Brad [0:29:10]: But then you have to align... Brad [0:29:11]: Okay. Brad [0:29:11]: Great. Brad [0:29:12]: We're doing this. Brad [0:29:13]: The salespeople people have to make sure the right people can come. Brad [0:29:16]: Sure. Brad [0:29:16]: Sales will tell you like, they can they could probably get anybody to come to these things, but they wanna get the right level of person inside of an agency or a broker to be there so that... Brad [0:29:25]: Because, again, you wanna leave with a great relationship so that more can happen after that. Brad [0:29:28]: If you don't get to the right person, sometimes that might not happen. Brad [0:29:31]: But the events became a critical part and a B b model to building relationships with distribution partners to somewhere. Callan [0:29:38]: So you're at the event. Callan [0:29:39]: Let's walk us through. Callan [0:29:40]: What kind of tickets are they? Callan [0:29:41]: Are we talking fifty yard line around Like sweet Brad [0:29:45]: Like, for regular season games, And the team's very smart about cost, some of these suites can get insane. Callan [0:29:50]: Yeah. Brad [0:29:51]: For example, like, if you're hosting somebody at the Super bowl, we never use the suite at the Super Bowl. Brad [0:29:55]: Like, it's just way too expensive. Brad [0:29:56]: And so we would use other strategic ways in which you can get four to six tickets together. Callan [0:30:01]: Yeah. Brad [0:30:02]: And insert, like, a host into the four to six. Brad [0:30:05]: Yep. Brad [0:30:05]: And so you're really smart about where people sit, like, of course, you wanna give them good seats because they're coming here to participate in some ways. Brad [0:30:11]: Until you want the experience to be good and And one Callan [0:30:13]: of the things that we got really good Brad [0:30:15]: at is, like, we always talked to them afterwards and we assessed ourselves and we got scores, and we would hear them and say, this was good. Brad [0:30:21]: This wasn't and we'd make changes in the in the next year. Brad [0:30:23]: And so even like the client and customer satisfaction of the event itself. Brad [0:30:27]: Yeah. Brad [0:30:27]: Just measured. Brad [0:30:28]: Can know, like, what it make what it make better in future years. Brad [0:30:31]: But like, every game's is different. Brad [0:30:32]: Conference championships and Super Bowls are obviously gonna be more expensive, more highly sought after and you gotta be smarter about the way you use money. Brad [0:30:38]: Regular season. Brad [0:30:38]: Maybe you could get a sweet night in there because that's a little bit more Yeah. Brad [0:30:42]: Economically viable. Brad [0:30:43]: But you can get a lot done with is doing regular seats. Callan [0:30:46]: A hundred percent. Brad [0:30:47]: And I... Brad [0:30:47]: There's the game, but there's all the stuff that happens around the game too or the day before the game with time together, dinners together and everything else that you can program. Callan [0:30:57]: Oh, and... Callan [0:30:57]: Yeah. Callan [0:30:57]: And I should say, I've been to some of these at Ohio state, and there's the big tailgate before And. Callan [0:31:02]: Yeah. Callan [0:31:02]: And that's one probably one of the most incredible things. Callan [0:31:04]: Like, the advantages you're getting... Callan [0:31:06]: I mean, at that thing, I think we had twenty some people all in the same section. Callan [0:31:10]: I actually didn't realize... Callan [0:31:11]: I mean it makes sense, but I didn't realize how much went on these one on behind the scenes even after to improve on that that experience. Callan [0:31:18]: But what I heard you say this, I just wouldn't have... Callan [0:31:21]: I mean, it makes perfect sense in hindsight, but, you know, the first thing I think most people are thinking is the driving direct consumer. Callan [0:31:27]: But the reality is when you guys made this decision. Callan [0:31:29]: Yeah. Callan [0:31:30]: That wasn't even your... Callan [0:31:31]: That was Brad [0:31:32]: I don't wanna say it Callan [0:31:33]: wasn't the on the radar of course. Callan [0:31:34]: It's always gonna be on the radar. Callan [0:31:35]: Our brain recognition in general and it helps the agencies and advisors and everybody else. Callan [0:31:39]: But I would have definitely not realized that how much that matters. Callan [0:31:43]: And the reality is For anybody just been in this space knows your top brokers, your top advisors, your top firms, they're making up. Callan [0:31:52]: I mean, it's disproportionate. Callan [0:31:53]: Yeah. Callan [0:31:54]: How much of there could... Callan [0:31:55]: How much revenue that they're bringing to you on a... Callan [0:31:58]: So, like, where my head goes is what an amazing way to get... Callan [0:32:03]: Because you're right. Callan [0:32:03]: If they're top broker, their top one hundred bros just use insurance for this one. Callan [0:32:07]: Third top one hundred agency. Callan [0:32:09]: Odds are, all the carriers have something really cool that they can bring them to or offer them or whatever that might be. Callan [0:32:16]: But since you guys over and... Callan [0:32:18]: I'm I'm gonna use word over index on the Nfl, nobody else can do that. Callan [0:32:23]: Probably only... Callan [0:32:24]: Like, you... Callan [0:32:24]: Like, they would have out... Brad [0:32:26]: Not to the same level, And it goes back to your point on, like, why do the sponsorship there are certain things as a sponsor you get access to, that nobody gets access to unless you're response Yeah. Brad [0:32:33]: So if you're in your category, you can do that. Brad [0:32:36]: But your point is valid. Brad [0:32:37]: We always talked about, like, these people can get invited to anything. Brad [0:32:39]: How can we be special? Brad [0:32:41]: Yeah. Brad [0:32:41]: In some way. Brad [0:32:42]: And so that that is something that team thinks about. Callan [0:32:44]: Man, I mean, everybody's got the trip. Callan [0:32:45]: Right? Callan [0:32:45]: I've been on a number of these trips and they're all amazing. Callan [0:32:48]: Doesn't matter if it's a small carrier regional carrier, national carrier, super large carrier, they're all really, really, really cool experiences. Callan [0:32:56]: So, like, to have that as a separator when somebody else is, you know, let's say, you know, I I always think of, like, where's nationwide... Callan [0:33:04]: Like, what spot are they in? Callan [0:33:06]: Are they the top carrier with this? Callan [0:33:07]: But or are they number two Are they number three? Callan [0:33:09]: Are they way out of that? Callan [0:33:10]: For those ones that you're number three, the opportunity to go, They already like you to go to two one? Callan [0:33:16]: Two Brad [0:33:16]: than one. Brad [0:33:16]: Yeah. Callan [0:33:18]: Is that how you guys kind thought about that Brad [0:33:19]: Or Yeah. Brad [0:33:19]: I mean, listen. Brad [0:33:20]: Like, to do that well, the partnership with your sale. Brad [0:33:23]: Your people that are actually having these relate... Brad [0:33:25]: These discussions out in the markets. Brad [0:33:26]: Like, that's the feedback loop that's really important to getting the right people in the right environment to create the right with the relationship, but so much of the activity Like, we would work directly with business units to they may have this group. Brad [0:33:39]: And the one thing we found is smaller is really effective. Brad [0:33:43]: You can do a thirty person or a fifty person thing. Brad [0:33:46]: Sales teams love which you can get six to eight hundred percent something like that. Brad [0:33:49]: Like, that's a sweet spot of, like, probably getting even, again, it's more economically viable, but you can probably get more out of that than you can the group of thirty because you're not necessarily building the depth of relationship that you can with six to eight. Brad [0:34:01]: And so oftentimes the team would pivot to build to create kinda of smaller intimate experiences, and and you can do a lot. Brad [0:34:08]: What you Callan [0:34:09]: can do at that point six to eight with the even at the budget half. Callan [0:34:13]: Yeah. Callan [0:34:13]: It's going to be... Callan [0:34:14]: Yeah. Callan [0:34:15]: It would be like, some of those unforgettable bulk Yeah experiences really. Callan [0:34:17]: That's amazing. Brad [0:34:19]: But, kinda let let's talk about You mentioned, like, your first question was around, so tub, total on and brand awareness versus aided awareness. Brad [0:34:24]: And so I mentioned early on that we achieved the highest brand metrics we'd ever achieved. Brad [0:34:28]: And that was on the total una needed brand awareness outside. Brad [0:34:31]: And that's the more difficult metric to hit. Brad [0:34:33]: I mean you're you're talking about taking up real estate and some. Brad [0:34:36]: Yeah. Brad [0:34:37]: Yeah. Brad [0:34:37]: If you were to just un prompt say, a brand in some ways. Brad [0:34:40]: That's a harder metric to achieve. Brad [0:34:42]: And when you're in direct to consumer, it takes a... Brad [0:34:45]: It takes ton spend to be able to do that, share a voice and everything else. Brad [0:34:48]: When we made this pivot, it became less about that. Brad [0:34:51]: And this pivot being more of a b focus. Brad [0:34:54]: When we made that pivot. Brad [0:34:55]: It was more about how can we make sure this is a brand that is known and trusted. Brad [0:35:01]: Again, the nationwide one is an almost one hundred year old company. Brad [0:35:04]: It's really well known. Brad [0:35:05]: Used to have a ton of exclusive agents it went more of the distribution of an of independent distribution route. Brad [0:35:10]: But it still maintained very strong brand measures, and it was about how do you continue to nurture and protect the brand in a way that when an agent, a broker, a financial adviser sits across the desk from you and says, here's the company that I think you should work with, and it's a company they know meaning the their client in some way. Brad [0:35:30]: Their ability to say yes to that increases significantly. Brad [0:35:35]: When the brand is known trusted, and so that focus was really important and the brand work that was done, the trust and reputation work that was done was really important to maintaining that. Brad [0:35:46]: Because oftentimes, as you know, like, oftentimes the brand is the difference. Brad [0:35:50]: Yeah. Brad [0:35:51]: That product features maybe aren't that different. Brad [0:35:53]: Pricing maybe isn't that different, but maybe I've put this brand in front of you that you have kind of heard of? Brad [0:35:59]: Sure. Brad [0:35:59]: Or this one. Brad [0:36:00]: Yeah. Brad [0:36:01]: No That. Brad [0:36:02]: Yeah. Brad [0:36:02]: Exactly. Brad [0:36:02]: So that can make a difference in the... Brad [0:36:04]: Not just the recommendation but the accept from the client on the other side too. Callan [0:36:08]: Oh, it used to happen. Callan [0:36:09]: When I was an agent happened all the time. Callan [0:36:10]: Yeah. Callan [0:36:10]: If they've heard of this one, but I haven't heard of this one, it's a big deal. Callan [0:36:13]: And to your point, I have to like that company. Callan [0:36:16]: Right?? Callan [0:36:17]: Like, there were some companies in the in the financial downturn, that people are like, ours Brad [0:36:21]: Not just awareness. Brad [0:36:21]: I could be aware of you and hate you. Callan [0:36:23]: Yeah. Callan [0:36:23]: That's exactly right. Callan [0:36:26]: So if somebody going down this route, they've got a big partnership, whatever that might be. Callan [0:36:31]: What are the hiccups they need to be aware of. Callan [0:36:34]: You say me email Brad [0:36:35]: like the Nfl? Callan [0:36:36]: Yeah. Callan [0:36:36]: Well, wed let's say Nfl? Callan [0:36:37]: Oh, one. Callan [0:36:38]: Matter. Callan [0:36:38]: Whomever it might be, those are, I'd say those are still probably of the hottest ones right now. Callan [0:36:42]: But if they're going into this, What are the things that I would say that when you guys went into this that you thought Oh, I didn't realize that. Callan [0:36:48]: Like, early I wish I actually would have thought about that differently. Callan [0:36:51]: I know this really worked. Callan [0:36:53]: Hit... Callan [0:36:54]: You guys hit momentum fast. Brad [0:36:56]: Yeah. Brad [0:36:56]: I I I would say the team had to get really good at managing through reputation. Callan [0:37:01]: Mh. Callan [0:37:01]: Yeah. Brad [0:37:02]: Challenges. Brad [0:37:02]: We were at with the Nfl time of National Anthem? Brad [0:37:06]: Yeah. Brad [0:37:06]: Ray Rice. Brad [0:37:07]: Mh. Brad [0:37:08]: Concussion trying to think what else Still sure. Brad [0:37:11]: Anyways, as a sponsor, you often have to have a voice. Brad [0:37:16]: In some ways. Brad [0:37:17]: You often get asked for what's your perspective on this. Brad [0:37:20]: And so you have to deal with reputation challenges. Brad [0:37:23]: Is it not just with an entity like the Nfl, but anytime you're using talent. Brad [0:37:27]: Yeah. Brad [0:37:27]: In some an individual. Callan [0:37:29]: Yep. Brad [0:37:29]: An individual may get into some sort of legal situation in which you have to respond in some way. Brad [0:37:34]: So my advice would just be... Brad [0:37:36]: You have to a really good process, brought you triage these things that are happening. Brad [0:37:40]: We had such trusted relationships with our legal partners, with P r. Brad [0:37:44]: Yeah. Brad [0:37:45]: Because we had to be able to get really good at knowing what to respond to and what whatnot to. Brad [0:37:49]: And the other piece of advice that says you get really get it, like, no comment. Brad [0:37:51]: You don't always have to participate in this People are always gonna want you to participate in it. Brad [0:37:57]: But you don't always have to. Brad [0:37:58]: Right? Brad [0:37:58]: Because at the end of the day, you have to... Brad [0:38:00]: The job to protect your brand. Callan [0:38:01]: Yep. Brad [0:38:02]: So it's say anytime you're getting into deals with at this kind of visibility and scale with talent or entities is start thinking of the worst case scenarios that can happen. Brad [0:38:11]: And we would think of the worst case scenarios, how would we respond? Brad [0:38:14]: Who needs to be included, what are the different things to kind of to contemplate. Brad [0:38:18]: And so we get we try to get really good at that muscle? Brad [0:38:20]: I would Callan [0:38:22]: say the second aspect is just Brad [0:38:23]: how to get really good at understanding impact? Brad [0:38:25]: Because again, like, what measurement tools or your C suite leadership team, your finance folks gonna be okay with and and understanding, are we getting value from this? Brad [0:38:38]: I mean, a lot of companies and brands may think this is just like, very flashy stuff. Brad [0:38:42]: It's a bunch of upper funnel advertising, We don't get any lift or from this. Brad [0:38:46]: You have to be able to demonstrate that. Brad [0:38:48]: And so do the due diligence on your brand tracking and your marketing mix modeling, you know, in your connections with finance to be able to show, like, here's what we get from this. Brad [0:38:56]: And the the more that you do that, the more success you're gonna have and without that, you could be in and out of these things pretty quickly because if Spend has to get cut in some ways, maybe this is the first thing that goes because I don't have the right measurement place to be able to tell you doing. Callan [0:39:11]: Absolutely. Brad [0:39:11]: And so I would say maybe maybe those two things or if I was giving any advice to people in this space, it's that. Callan [0:39:16]: Yeah. Callan [0:39:16]: So reputation and finding a way to actually demonstrate. Brad [0:39:19]: Demonstrate value. Callan [0:39:20]: Working we're not working really. Callan [0:39:21]: What's what are those... Callan [0:39:22]: I'm assuming, it it was, I'll speak for on my behalf, you know, I was always planning start my own business. Callan [0:39:27]: I couldn't do that while I was in. Callan [0:39:30]: These roles. Brad [0:39:31]: Couldn't do that. Callan [0:39:32]: For sure. Callan [0:39:32]: It's really hard when you get to a certain level to be able to do two things at once. Callan [0:39:36]: Yeah. Callan [0:39:36]: Because it... Callan [0:39:37]: It's so demanding. Callan [0:39:37]: Do you find that to be the case? Brad [0:39:40]: For sure. Brad [0:39:40]: I think it'd be very tough. Brad [0:39:41]: Have people started their own side hustle and then got it to a point where they could pull away. Brad [0:39:47]: Sure. Brad [0:39:47]: There's a lot of challenges and being able to do something like that. Brad [0:39:51]: I mean, for how much effort you have to put into that with your other Yep work that's being done is just it's really difficult unless you have some other founder help in some ways that it can help. Brad [0:39:59]: Sure, kinda scale yourself. Brad [0:40:00]: I think in a Cor road is really tough to do. Brad [0:40:02]: And so I think it would have been challenging for me to build some sort of practice outside. Brad [0:40:07]: Of that. Brad [0:40:07]: But taking the leap, obviously gives you the chance to kind of do that automatically without any of the handcuffs associated to it. Brad [0:40:14]: So I... Brad [0:40:15]: Listen. Brad [0:40:15]: Again, people have done it. Brad [0:40:16]: But I think it'd be Callan [0:40:17]: realize... Callan [0:40:17]: I couldn't do it I tried three times. Callan [0:40:18]: And burned out every single time. Brad [0:40:20]: Yeah Callan [0:40:20]: It wasn't until I quit without having anything. Callan [0:40:22]: That no pipeline or anything where I could actually... Callan [0:40:26]: I I think I needed that forcing connection a bit too. Callan [0:40:28]: Yeah. Callan [0:40:29]: So Brad, last question I got for you. Callan [0:40:31]: Yeah. Callan [0:40:31]: Is if you can have a conversation with your younger self, H Totally up to you, What would that conversation be? Callan [0:40:38]: What advice would you... Callan [0:40:39]: Would you give that person? Brad [0:40:41]: Here's why it's relevant for me. Brad [0:40:42]: My wife Had four daughters. Brad [0:40:43]: Mh. Callan [0:40:44]: Oldest just Brad [0:40:45]: wanted just graduated college, second graduated college next year? Callan [0:40:47]: Mh. Brad [0:40:48]: And our youngest or set of twins or be junior years in high school? Brad [0:40:50]: So they probably feel like I give them too much advice at times. Brad [0:40:55]: Because, like, listen, part of being kid is, like, you kinda have to go did your thing and fail a little bit and then kinda come back and and so you want them to kinda do that? Brad [0:41:04]: Yeah. Brad [0:41:05]: I don't know I maybe a couple things come to mind. Brad [0:41:08]: The first one is honestly just like, out working people. Callan [0:41:12]: Mh. Brad [0:41:12]: If there was one thing I think I tried to do early in my career, and I would have people come in and say, It doesn't matter what time I get here, you're always here. Brad [0:41:21]: And doesn't matter what time I leave you're still here. Brad [0:41:23]: Yep. Brad [0:41:23]: And so early in my career, like, I was definitely grinding and hustling. Brad [0:41:26]: And that's that's a great time to do that. Brad [0:41:28]: And I... Brad [0:41:28]: That's what I would tell people like, in your early twenties, you should be grinding, like, crazy to set up some sort of foundation to help hopefully help pay you off whatever you wanna do career wise down the road. Brad [0:41:38]: But the more you can hustle and grind and just... Brad [0:41:40]: It's crazy to think that how differentiating, just out working someone can be, a hundred percent. Brad [0:41:45]: There's a lot of people who will optics Callan [0:41:47]: aren't willing to do that. Callan [0:41:48]: Optics matter that scenario. Callan [0:41:49]: Yeah. Callan [0:41:50]: If somebody sees that somebody's really putting the effort. Callan [0:41:52]: That's going to, like, even if you've got some dull... Callan [0:41:54]: Like, like, if you some areas where you're just not as strong at, they know that you'll probably work and you'll eventually get there. Brad [0:42:00]: Yeah. Brad [0:42:00]: For sure. Brad [0:42:01]: So I think that's an important one that just like, again, you can just... Callan [0:42:04]: I'm not saying you I've been Brad [0:42:05]: the smartest person in the world. Brad [0:42:06]: I certainly... Brad [0:42:06]: I'm not that. Brad [0:42:07]: I I I think just at times you can just out work. Brad [0:42:10]: Mh. Brad [0:42:10]: That work people. Brad [0:42:11]: Maybe the second thing is naturally curious. Brad [0:42:14]: Mh. Brad [0:42:15]: And I was even telling people that, right I mean before I left nationwide. Brad [0:42:18]: Like I think on my best piece of advice is, like, just be curious. Brad [0:42:21]: We're at a time right now where you've never had more information. Brad [0:42:25]: Yeah. Brad [0:42:25]: Readily accessible in seconds with depth than you do right now. Brad [0:42:29]: Would always tell me my kid I think at times you sit in meetings and people will talk about something and you know you have no idea you're talking about. Brad [0:42:34]: And I've been in those meetings. Brad [0:42:36]: There was a point in my career when I was a chief a staff to the our Cmo and business unit president and one of the functions that report up so Callan [0:42:43]: what time was our venture capital team. Callan [0:42:44]: Our corporate venture capital team. Brad [0:42:46]: I didn't know anything about venture capital about super interested in it, and I wanted to get... Brad [0:42:49]: I sit in these meetings, and they would use terms that I know idea what they're talking about, and I write them down, and then I I'll go study them later on and just try and get smart. Brad [0:42:56]: And so that's what I always tell by my kids. Brad [0:42:58]: Like, they'll set meetings and say like. Brad [0:42:59]: Surrounded like people who are way smarter than me. Brad [0:43:00]: I'm like, who cares. Brad [0:43:01]: Yeah. Brad [0:43:02]: Like, use that as a little bit of a fire to kind of, like, get smart yourself on things that you're interested in. Brad [0:43:07]: Being naturally curious. Callan [0:43:09]: Yeah. Brad [0:43:10]: Bet... Brad [0:43:10]: I think being a differentiator for for so many people and again It's never been easier to do that. Brad [0:43:15]: And then maybe the last piece would be relationships. Callan [0:43:18]: Yeah. Callan [0:43:18]: Alright I think there are people who network just to kinda network, Brad [0:43:22]: and it's like, let's gets some coffee and do this. Brad [0:43:23]: Like, there's... Brad [0:43:23]: I think really intentional ways to build relationships. Brad [0:43:26]: And it was something I learned kinda later on. Brad [0:43:28]: And, like, not that I was not trying to, But I I don't if I as much intentional to it. Brad [0:43:33]: To the point where, like, you know, one of the things that I think people know about me is if I've mentored someone in some ways I'll even share them, like, I've got my own development plan, I will share with him, like, here's exactly what I put down for myself. Brad [0:43:43]: You know, I used, like, the last two weeks of December to kinda think about in this next calendar year. Brad [0:43:48]: What am I trying to get done? Callan [0:43:50]: Yeah. Brad [0:43:50]: You know what I trying to achieve. Brad [0:43:51]: And I used to be the guy who was, like, my five year plan is this, and my ten year plan is this. Brad [0:43:55]: And then I was just like, And there's just so much that's gonna change. Brad [0:43:58]: About my what's my what's my one year plan? Callan [0:44:00]: Yep. Brad [0:44:01]: Kinda look like. Brad [0:44:01]: And that was another piece that kind of evolved throughout my career I used to be. Brad [0:44:04]: So, like, here's my ten year plan, and I just kinda blew that up. Brad [0:44:07]: But my one year plan became my way and as part of that was, like, what's my relationship strategy in the next year. Brad [0:44:12]: Do with the people that I wanna have dinner with, have drinks with, go have coffee with spend time, pick their brain and hopefully, like, build an actual relationship. Brad [0:44:22]: Yep. Brad [0:44:22]: That can be used when you need it. Brad [0:44:25]: And need it Just mean, like, you might have a question. Brad [0:44:27]: A hundred percent. Brad [0:44:28]: You might need someone to bounce something off of. Brad [0:44:29]: You might need somebody that says listen. Brad [0:44:31]: I really messed this up and I could use your help in some way. Brad [0:44:34]: And so, I know, I think the more that you can be intentional about building those rec relationships like the payoff is huge. Callan [0:44:41]: When I'd add to that too, and you touched on this a little bit is that intentional piece as you move up the ladder. Callan [0:44:46]: Lot of people wanna meet with you. Brad [0:44:49]: Yeah. Callan [0:44:49]: A lot of people wanna meet with you all the time. Callan [0:44:51]: And and then you start to build a reputation for whether that's, like, for me, it was as a sales executive within startups. Callan [0:44:58]: And so people, whenever somebody was, like, looking for that job or whatever that might be, I get it. Callan [0:45:04]: And I took all those calls, And know... Callan [0:45:05]: Because I always want to help people out. Callan [0:45:07]: I was just burning myself. Callan [0:45:08]: Yeah. Callan [0:45:08]: And it's not that I didn't wanna help. Callan [0:45:10]: I did want to help, but that's the hardest part probably is the guilt of, like, oh, I kinda say no. Callan [0:45:14]: But the reality is you do have to say no. Callan [0:45:16]: Because you you have to make room, Brad [0:45:19]: like, everybody kinda knows their limit. Brad [0:45:20]: Yeah. Brad [0:45:20]: I I know it's kinda wired the same way. Brad [0:45:22]: Like, I I was honored that people thought enough about me to think to meet with me or have have my advice in some way. Brad [0:45:27]: One of the ways I always use that but kinda like, naturally weed out things to is, I would always put it on them. Brad [0:45:33]: If you want the time. Brad [0:45:35]: Yeah. Brad [0:45:35]: Come prepared, and I'm gonna give you things to do do the things. Brad [0:45:39]: If you don't do the things. Brad [0:45:40]: That's a good idea. Brad [0:45:41]: If you don't do the things, then you're not really serious about this relationship anyway. Brad [0:45:45]: And so that was another way to kind of, like, weed out how serious is someone in terms of actually wanting to build a relationship with you. Callan [0:45:52]: Yeah. Brad [0:45:52]: In some ways. Brad [0:45:52]: Give them something to do. Brad [0:45:54]: Yeah. Brad [0:45:54]: And see if they actually do it or not. Brad [0:45:56]: But I was trying to be generous with time I learned that from leaders who gave it to me and so I tried to reciprocate as much as I possibly could. Brad [0:46:02]: But everyone knows their limits Of, like, I can't I can't take on seventeen mentorship meetings a week. Callan [0:46:08]: That's exactly it. Callan [0:46:09]: And definitely keep space for some of those, if that's important to too you If it's not important to too you don't feel like you have to do it just to do it. Callan [0:46:14]: But for me, like, it is, but, like, I had to put a put a limit on it. Callan [0:46:19]: Get that was hard but one of the best things I did. Callan [0:46:21]: Yeah. Callan [0:46:21]: Because then I, like, because, otherwise, I'm not showing up at at home. Callan [0:46:24]: I'm not, like, it becomes a problem. Callan [0:46:26]: That's. Brad [0:46:27]: Mean, I think you're hitting on a different point, which is, like, at the end of day, you not to manage yourself. Brad [0:46:31]: Yeah time and everything else because there's a lot of people that need you. Brad [0:46:34]: Yeah. Brad [0:46:35]: In some way, your people at work needs you and your people away from work needs you too in some ways. Brad [0:46:40]: And so if you don't balance or optimize that, then nothing. Brad [0:46:43]: Is And in fact, everything suffers. Brad [0:46:45]: Yep. Brad [0:46:45]: And so you... Brad [0:46:46]: Sounds like you figured that out. Callan [0:46:48]: I'm trying. Callan [0:46:48]: I like the right thing going. Callan [0:46:49]: I would I would not... Callan [0:46:52]: I would not say I've got it figure it out. Callan [0:46:54]: Brad, this is awesome, man. Callan [0:46:55]: I'm glad we could Brad [0:46:57]: can Callan [0:46:57]: get this and this was so much fun. Callan [0:46:58]: Thanks for calling on the show today. Brad [0:47:00]: Yeah. Brad [0:47:00]: Thank. Brad [0:47:00]: Appreciate it. Callan [0:47:08]: I hope you enjoyed our episode with Brad. Callan [0:47:10]: I could talk about the Nfl in these major campaigns and breaking these down all day long. Callan [0:47:16]: If you wanna learn more about Brad, you can find him on Linkedin in the show notes if you got any new feedback or wanna contact me, you can also feel free to reach out to me directly on Linkedin. Callan [0:47:25]: And if you really wanna support the show. Callan [0:47:28]: A review on Apple podcast or Spotify is very much appreciated, and please give us a like or a comment or a follow on Youtube. Callan [0:47:35]: So with that, we'll see everybody next week.