Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / Prosecutors Lay Out Kouri Richins’ Financial Motive | Eric Richins Poisoning Murder Trial, Day 7

Transcript

Prosecutors Lay Out Kouri Richins’ Financial Motive | Eric Richins Poisoning Murder Trial, Day 7 · True Crime with Gavin Fish

• 0:02
  In March 2022, a Camas, Utah man, Eric Richins, died.
• 0:08
  He died and it looked maybe originally like he just maybe
• 0:14
  had died in his sleep. His wife Corey, called 911 and
• 0:20
  reported that everything was hunky Dory, everything was fine
• 0:24
  when they had a little drinky poo before they went to sleep.
• 0:27
  And next thing you know, her husband's dead.
• 0:32
  Now this, of course, is the case of the murder of Eric Richins at
• 0:37
  the alleged hand of his wife, Corey Richins.
• 0:40
  We're on day seven. We wrapped up day seven of her
• 0:43
  murder trial today in what is expected to last about four or
• 0:46
  five weeks. I have been gone, as you guys
• 0:50
  have noticed. I'm going to talk about that
• 0:53
  here in a little bit, but yeah, I'm so out of I'm, I'm out of
• 1:00
  practice. Javi, let's do a Take 2.
• 1:03
  Thank you for joining me, and we will dig into this in a minute.
• 1:08
  Here we go. This video contains mature
• 1:22
  themes and discussions intended only for adult audiences.
• 1:26
  Viewer discretion is advised. Hello there, my friend.
• 1:31
  Welcome back to another true crime conversation with me,
• 1:34
  Gavin Fish. I'm rusty, man.
• 1:37
  I'm rusty. I don't know what I'm doing.
• 1:39
  I've been gone for a week. I tried to not be gone for a
• 1:44
  week. I, I went to the state of
• 1:47
  California, my home state, not the state of my birth, not the
• 1:52
  state where I spent my childhood, well the beginning of
• 1:55
  my childhood, but the state where that I consider my home,
• 1:59
  which is California. I grew up in the Orangevale
• 2:02
  area. I went back for some meetings
• 2:05
  and to see some people and of course to spend some time with
• 2:08
  my mom and dad, my sister, brother-in-law and nieces and
• 2:12
  nephews. I brought the whole kit and
• 2:16
  caboodle, a whole traveling studio with me and when we tried
• 2:22
  it, it was just Le Le Pew. It did not work out well for us
• 2:28
  at all and it just didn't seem to it.
• 2:31
  It was the problems were many fold, not just Internet
• 2:34
  connectivity related. They were many, many fold.
• 2:39
  And I just, I gave up. I gave up.
• 2:41
  Hey, while I was away, look at this fancy mug that our daughter
• 2:46
  made. She didn't make it specifically
• 2:49
  for me. I asked her if I could use it in
• 2:52
  tonight's live stream. It's got hearts.
• 2:54
  It's got hearts. It's got a little daisies on it.
• 2:58
  It it holds water. It's a successful water vessel.
• 3:05
  It is perfect. She did a terrific job on that
• 3:08
  little mug. Anyway, yeah, so I was gone.
• 3:12
  And I'm sorry that I was gone. We probably will have a smaller
• 3:17
  crowd tonight because people are like, hey, Gavin, Gavin
• 3:20
  disappeared, right? So he's no longer on here.
• 3:22
  It'll take a while for everybody to realize, hey, I did not pass
• 3:27
  into the great beyond. I did not give up on on YouTube.
• 3:34
  I just had a hard time technologically speaking.
• 3:40
  Now, Emmy saying the connection when I was with Josh was great.
• 3:43
  Yeah, I did have Internet connectivity issues during my
• 3:47
  live stream, but I figured that part of it out.
• 3:50
  It was the rest of it that didn't work.
• 3:52
  And I may have to switch over to what what Josh and Tiff use.
• 3:59
  Yeah, I might have to change my technology, make it more simple
• 4:03
  or have a full time person like back at the old homestead while
• 4:08
  I'm doing my remotes who can run the system from here.
• 4:12
  Maybe that I don't know. I don't like I I don't like any
• 4:16
  of my options right now. I'm I'm looking into it.
• 4:19
  I forgot to say, you know, thank you for joining me and wherever
• 4:22
  you're joining me from, tell me in the comments.
• 4:25
  Looks like Nikki is joining us from sunny Bermuda.
• 4:29
  Pretty awesome. So tell me where you are, Robin
• 4:34
  says. Loves that Gavin shows his
• 4:35
  daughter's work to us, Gives me the warm fuzzies.
• 4:38
  Oh, she did great. Look at that.
• 4:40
  Look at that. What do they call that?
• 4:41
  They call that glaze. The glaze work is is beautiful.
• 4:45
  The the handle is sturdy and strong.
• 4:49
  She did a great job. I like to drink from this side
• 4:52
  of it because it's not perfectly round, because it's handmade.
• 4:58
  It just pours perfectly into the old face hole.
• 5:02
  Michelle is from Memphis, TN UNC Tar Heel.
• 5:05
  Let me guess, North Carolina? Joplin, MO, Miami is in the
• 5:11
  house. I think I saw up here.
• 5:14
  Of course, Emmy is here from San Jose.
• 5:17
  Glad you are here, Emmy. Let's see.
• 5:20
  Gwendolyn Shepherd is from the first Electric City.
• 5:25
  Oh, she's gotten creative and I love that.
• 5:27
  I love when there's some creativity.
• 5:30
  I'm not sure what city is the first electric city, but
• 5:33
  welcome, Gwendolyn. Yeah.
• 5:36
  Emmy from sunny California. Thank you, guys.
• 5:38
  Austin, TX in the house. And I love it when we reach not
• 5:42
  only the fruited plain, but and sea.
• 5:47
  From shining sea, from sea to shining sea.
• 5:50
  But also I love hearing from those of you in other parts of
• 5:55
  the world. Thank you very, very much for
• 5:57
  being here. Indeed, guys are awesome.
• 6:00
  OK, I have to say today in court was important.
• 6:10
  There was important testimony that was given against Cory
• 6:15
  Richens. By the way, when we look at
• 6:17
  photos of Cory Richens, does she just always look like she just
• 6:21
  not quite sure what is happening here, just kind of has a like a
• 6:26
  doughy face. And I'm sorry.
• 6:28
  I mean, I don't mean to. I don't mean to go on the
• 6:32
  attack, though. I don't feel any love for this
• 6:34
  woman because having seen all of the all of the evidence that has
• 6:40
  been filed so far against her and there's more coming out in
• 6:45
  the trial, I just truly believe that she.
• 6:50
  Yeah, that she offed her husband and wanted to for some time.
• 6:56
  But look at her. She's just like, that's
• 6:59
  horrible, Gavin. It's not her fault that she has
• 7:02
  a duh face. Speaking of faces, guys, I
• 7:06
  should have brought AI. Should you know?
• 7:08
  I wouldn't because I didn't have, I don't have their
• 7:11
  permission. But I spent time with family and
• 7:14
  friends over this past week back in California.
• 7:17
  As I said, I have got a nephew that from the day he was born
• 7:22
  has had a smile on his face. You know how most of us have
• 7:25
  RBF? He does not.
• 7:27
  He has resting smile face. He's just the happiest kid.
• 7:30
  And I wish I could show you a picture of him, but I didn't ask
• 7:33
  permission so I'm not going to. But it was just so much fun to
• 7:37
  be around him because he was always just smiling.
• 7:39
  It was a lot of fun. OK, the first electric city is
• 7:43
  Wabash IN Well, thank you very much.
• 7:46
  I learned learned a new thing today.
• 7:48
  Dreary eerie is in the house. Thank you very much for being
• 7:52
  here, Mooney says. I think this is her put on face
• 7:57
  for court. Let's take a look at it.
• 8:03
  If you watch the TV interviews, she doesn't play that way in my
• 8:06
  opinion. She's playing mild and meek for
• 8:09
  the jury. Well, this OK, so I will.
• 8:14
  I think I saw said Wabash, didn't I?
• 8:17
  Anyway, Wabash IN. Thank you very much.
• 8:20
  South Lake Tahoe is here. Let me get back to Mooney's
• 8:22
  comment. It's possible, sure, that she's
• 8:26
  playing pure as the wind driven snow, meek and mild, her places
• 8:31
  in the kitchen kind of, you know, trad wife for the jury.
• 8:39
  Possible, I guess, though this photo was taken in a hearing
• 8:43
  when there wasn't a jury. And when you look at like the
• 8:47
  family photos, let's look at the family photos.
• 8:49
  Yeah, she's she doesn't look so like what?
• 8:55
  And you're right. You're right, Mooney.
• 8:59
  You're right. And when you're right, you're
• 9:01
  right. Wah Bah, she says Mooney and
• 9:07
  Scott's mom from Jacksonville. Thanks for being here.
• 9:09
  Okie, Dokie. What do we want to say about
• 9:12
  today? I'm, I'm just, you know what?
• 9:14
  I'm going to do the today's proceedings, see if we can get
• 9:21
  that so that it looks right. There's better.
• 9:24
  Today's proceedings were rather dry, rather dry indeed.
• 9:29
  I, I wanted to get you guys a clip to watch, but but I just
• 9:34
  couldn't find one that wasn't so, so boring.
• 9:39
  Like I would have fallen asleep in court today, but it was
• 9:43
  important testimony and oh, bash Wabash.
• 9:49
  OK, Robin, OK, sorry. Bash Wabash.
• 9:55
  Wabash, not Wabash. As you know, Robin, I, I'm kind
• 10:01
  of a fancy Dan kind of Mr. fancy Pants.
• 10:04
  I I like to put that long a in there, but it's Wabash, Wabash
• 10:09
  IN. Am I getting that right this
• 10:11
  time? Robin Wabash IN.
• 10:14
  I think I got that right this time.
• 10:18
  OK, let's get back to the and guys, I'm going to rely on your
• 10:26
  comments today because I was just so bored.
• 10:28
  I was just so bored. But, you know, Court TV put
• 10:32
  together pretty darn good summary of what happened today,
• 10:37
  that the the prosecution's witness was a forensic
• 10:42
  accountant named Brooke Carrington.
• 10:44
  Now, of course, I think Miss Carrington is probably a lovely
• 10:47
  woman, but she's a forensic accountant.
• 10:49
  Therefore, I'm going to fall asleep.
• 10:51
  Now, this is coming from a place of love.
• 10:54
  OK? My, my brother-in-law who I
• 10:57
  deeply love is ACPA. Soon as he starts talking about
• 11:02
  that's just, that's just the way it is.
• 11:03
  However, they did get some pretty important things kind of
• 11:11
  I put together #1 Miss, Miss Carrington was hired by the
• 11:17
  prosecution to review everything about Corey Richins business and
• 11:25
  personal finances. And boy, were they a mess.
• 11:29
  And I remember, I remember, oh, you know, what if I'm, if I'm
• 11:34
  doing the I remember. Wanda, we need, we need some
• 11:40
  flashback music. If, if you would please.
• 11:43
  Thank you. OK, I, oh, that was, that is
• 11:47
  delightful. Wanda.
• 11:49
  I remember back in the day when it was pre real estate bubble in
• 11:57
  the United States and especially in the Golden State of
• 12:00
  California, where those of us who were young at the time, on
• 12:05
  the young end at the time thought that this is just the
• 12:08
  way that real estate works, right?
• 12:10
  That things double in value while they're being built and
• 12:16
  just us smart people just knew how to take care of, of business
• 12:20
  and we would do very risky things, including taking
• 12:25
  interest only loans, taking balloon loans, taking hard money
• 12:30
  loans. And how did that work out for
• 12:34
  us? I, I'm in this is the, the
• 12:37
  collective us, which includes me.
• 12:40
  It did not work out well for us. OK, and Cory Richens, we I mean,
• 12:47
  we knew this going into it, but she was she was experiencing the
• 12:51
  ID 10T error, right? What we used to refer to again
• 12:57
  Wanda, we're talking about the past here.
• 12:59
  So a little bit of, oh, that's nice little flashback music back
• 13:05
  when I was a full time coder and we would make stupid jokes like
• 13:09
  calling people ID 10 TS. But yeah, she was just
• 13:14
  experiencing the ID 10T error in her life.
• 13:18
  She was she was digging herself deeper and deeper and deeper in
• 13:24
  debt, trying to make money by flipping houses in.
• 13:30
  So I think by, you know, starting in January of 21 to
• 13:37
  March of 22. Now remember, let's see, I'm
• 13:44
  trying to remember. I think that he was killed in
• 13:47
  23, right? Let me look back at this.
• 13:51
  No, it's March of 22. OK, so from January 21 until
• 13:58
  until his death, Cory Richens was getting in deeper and deeper
• 14:04
  and deeper debt all the way till she was about 7 and a half,
• 14:08
  $1,000,000 in debt, according to this forensic accountant Miss
• 14:12
  Carrington. And she was paying $80,000 a
• 14:16
  month just in debt service. In 2019, she testified Cory
• 14:26
  Richins took out a hard money loan.
• 14:30
  Well, no, no, I take it back. It was a HELOC, a home equity
• 14:33
  line of credit on the House that was in Eric's name.
• 14:40
  And she did it by signing his name.
• 14:46
  Attorney in fact, So it said like Eric Richins, attorney in
• 14:49
  fact, she apparently had power of attorney.
• 14:53
  But I think that it was some sort of fraudulent power of
• 14:57
  attorney. So he had, she had taken out
• 15:00
  $250,000 in a home equity line of credit against the house they
• 15:07
  were living in a house that was his, a house that was in his
• 15:10
  name only. And by the time he died, that
• 15:14
  HELOC was maxed out at 2:54. So she was trying to get money
• 15:20
  everywhere she could in order to stay afloat, trying to cover her
• 15:25
  tail. And I think I saw a a comment or
• 15:31
  what? Well, I thought I saw a comment
• 15:36
  come in. Yeah, from Mooney.
• 15:39
  Corey used loan sharks, hard money loans to cover her tail.
• 15:43
  And that's, you know, when when we talk about hard money, we're
• 15:47
  not necessarily talking about a bunch of chilly Palmer guys,
• 15:50
  right? We're, but usually they're like
• 15:53
  family trusts or, you know, rich people that have a person that
• 15:57
  will make high interest loans. Like at the time that these
• 16:01
  loans were made, Miss Carrington testified interest rates were at
• 16:08
  historic lows. You could buy a house you know
• 16:12
  it 22 and a quarter 2 1/2% and she was paying 10% on this.
• 16:18
  So just to do the math really easy, right, if she got a hard
• 16:23
  money loan for $250,000 and she was playing paying 10%, that
• 16:32
  meant that her just her nut, just the just the interest on
• 16:38
  that was $2000 a month, right? You take 250, take 10% of that
• 16:43
  25,000 and divide it by 12. So yeah, $2083 a month and just
• 16:51
  for just for like $250,000 and she was seven and a half,
• 16:55
  $1,000,000 in debt. Now I don't think that all 7 1/2
• 16:58
  was hard money was at that 10%, right?
• 17:02
  But if it were, let's say actually probably was because
• 17:09
  that turns out to be $62,500. So she just, she just had crazy,
• 17:15
  crazy debt. And Mooney, you're right.
• 17:16
  Eric did find out about Corey signing his name on that home
• 17:21
  equity loan loan. Yeah.
• 17:23
  And he had he had suspicions that his wife was thinking of
• 17:31
  killing him. Remember, he got very, very
• 17:36
  sick, Very sick after eating a sandwich from the Canvas Cafe.
• 17:40
  I can't remember what it's called.
• 17:42
  But, you know, his favorite sandwich was laced with
• 17:45
  something. He got very, very sick.
• 17:47
  And yeah, he, he changed. He changed the trust so that his
• 17:54
  sister was in charge. Yes, that's exactly right.
• 17:56
  And if you want to know where a great timeline is on this, it is
• 18:01
  of course on crimetimelines.com. Let me bring you over to this.
• 18:05
  I love, I love this team who put this, this together.
• 18:10
  But just going quick, you know, in June of 2013, they were
• 18:15
  married. 2015 to 2017. She purchases life insurance
• 18:20
  policies. The aggregate death benefit was
• 18:22
  nearly $2,000,000. This is part of that financial,
• 18:26
  that monetary motive, right? The prosecutors are are building
• 18:30
  a case towards let's let me see if I can get this kind of bigger
• 18:33
  for you guys. Let's see, 20/18/2013, They're
• 18:38
  married was 2018. Yeah.
• 18:42
  They, they have something wrong with it.
• 18:44
  OK, So they live in Summit County, Utah.
• 18:47
  This is my home turf. This is where my grandparents
• 18:50
  were born and raised, where my parents were born.
• 18:52
  Well, my mom was raised. She gets into real estate.
• 18:58
  She opens a bank account without Eric's knowledge.
• 19:00
  In March of 2019, she obtains a HELOC, borrowing about a quarter
• 19:04
  $1,000,000. Using a forged deed of trust,
• 19:08
  she forms her LLC. At that point.
• 19:11
  Eric discovered in 2020 that Corey withdrew $100,000 from his
• 19:15
  bank accounts. He learns she borrowed $30,000
• 19:19
  using his credit cards. He also learned she borrowed
• 19:22
  money using a fraudulent power of attorney.
• 19:25
  Eric confronts Corey, who promises to repay the money but
• 19:27
  allegedly does not. Prosecutors say Corey misused
• 19:31
  approximately $494,000 of Eric's money.
• 19:34
  And remember that Eric was a successful businessman, right?
• 19:40
  He was. He had a, you know, a masonry
• 19:45
  company so also accused of misappropriating tax payments
• 19:51
  totaling 134K in October of 2020.
• 19:55
  He consults a divorce lawyer and estate planning attorney.
• 19:58
  He changes that will like Mooney said, he forms the trust.
• 20:02
  Control of his estate is placed with his sister.
• 20:05
  The trust is established for the benefit of his three children.
• 20:09
  He transfers his business partnership interest into the
• 20:11
  trust. That means that he's protecting
• 20:14
  like it wouldn't go to probate, it wouldn't automatically go to
• 20:17
  his wife. So if anything happened to him,
• 20:20
  then his roughly half of the business goes to his children.
• 20:24
  It bypasses his wife, designates the trust of the beneficiary of
• 20:29
  his half, $1,000,000 life insurance policy instead of
• 20:31
  Corey. So this guy, you know what?
• 20:35
  He was seeing the signs. He was seeing the signs and he
• 20:39
  was doing all the right things as far as setting up a future
• 20:47
  for his children if something happened to him.
• 20:50
  But I think one of the mistakes he made, and this is not blaming
• 20:54
  him. I mean, this is a mistake that I
• 20:56
  would make, right? This is a mistake many people
• 20:58
  make. He didn't.
• 21:00
  He didn't when the red flags were there, he didn't believe
• 21:06
  that she was. She meant to do him harm and
• 21:11
  well, maybe at this point in the timeline it might have been a
• 21:14
  little too early anyway. So November 20 signs a will that
• 21:19
  provides includes provisions for his children, 2021 He reportedly
• 21:25
  expresses concern about finances.
• 21:27
  Prosecutors later allege disputes about money and control
• 21:30
  of accounts. Life insurance policies are
• 21:33
  later cited by investigators. Is relevant to motive right?
• 21:35
  That she was after his money from August 2121 to December.
• 21:41
  Corey issues a series of bad checks.
• 21:44
  I think she racked up about $6500 that was testified today
• 21:49
  in in what do they call those fees right where you don't have
• 21:56
  enough money in your account. Funds are routed through K
• 22:00
  Richmond's Realty and personal accounts before checks are
• 22:02
  returned. Charges multiple felony accounts
• 22:06
  of issuing bad checks. Money laundering June of 2021.
• 22:11
  First charge active mortgage fraud and forgery, August 2021.
• 22:16
  Second charge of mortgage fraud and forgery, August 12th.
• 22:21
  An additional falsified personal bank statement submitted to
• 22:24
  Excel Financial Services. Same thing in October November.
• 22:29
  Another one January of 2022, Corey allegedly changes the
• 22:33
  beneficiary of Eric's $2,000,000 life insurance policy to herself
• 22:37
  without authorization. The original beneficiary was
• 22:40
  Eric's business partner. Business partners later restored
• 22:44
  as the beneficiary. Once the change is discovered,
• 22:46
  Corey also applies for $100,000 life insurance policy on Eric.
• 22:50
  I'd like when, when you saw, when you see stuff like that,
• 22:56
  guys, these are flags that people mean you bodily harm.
• 23:00
  They they want your money right? January of 22 Corey asks for
• 23:07
  fentanyl, later propofol, later on another life insurance
• 23:14
  policy. February she pays $900.00 for
• 23:20
  approximately 15 to 20 pills of fentanyl.
• 23:22
  Allegedly. February 14th, Eric becomes
• 23:26
  seriously ill after eating a sandwich that Corey gave him and
• 23:31
  Eric expressed that he to a friend that he believes that
• 23:35
  Corey was trying to poison him. Corey, allegedly called a local
• 23:41
  diner, pays 4129 for the meal. Eric uses his son EpiPen and
• 23:46
  drinks Benadryl after eating the sandwich.
• 23:47
  I don't know if that helped or not.
• 23:51
  So she wants stronger fentanyl pills in February?
• 23:55
  She wants the Michael Jackson stuff.
• 23:58
  March 3rd, prosecutors allege that she prepared an alcoholic
• 24:03
  drink for Eric that was laced with fentanyl.
• 24:07
  And of course, we know the rest of the story.
• 24:09
  I mean, this woman, man, this one.
• 24:13
  Go to crimetimelines.com. I put a link in the description
• 24:16
  below if you want to see it, if you want to, if you want to read
• 24:19
  through that. They do a very, very good job in
• 24:25
  in documenting this. It's crazy.
• 24:29
  See what your comments are over here.
• 24:31
  Emmy says. How far away is Summit County
• 24:34
  from Lehigh? Lehigh is, I think that's
• 24:38
  technically the north Utah Valley, kind of north of Provo.
• 24:41
  If you were to jump over Mount Timpanogos, that would land you
• 24:46
  in Wasatch County. And if you travel another 10 or
• 24:49
  13 miles, you're in Wasatch County or, I'm sorry, in Summit
• 24:53
  County. So Summit County, that includes,
• 24:57
  if you want to look at a map, it includes Francis Camas, Marion,
• 25:02
  Oakley, POA, Coalville, you know, let's see, I think I think
• 25:07
  Park City's in Summit County. I think it might that might be
• 25:11
  in Wasatch County, but you know, it's a from Lehigh.
• 25:15
  It's about AI don't know 4045 minute drive into where Corey
• 25:22
  and Eric Richards lived. Thank you Robin.
• 25:25
  Oh, you are sorry. There we go.
• 25:27
  Robin is helping me today with everything.
• 25:31
  Non sufficient funds fees. Thank you very much.
• 25:35
  K girl is 50K girl. Congratulations on reaching 50.
• 25:38
  You know I had a hard time with 50 turning 50.
• 25:41
  I just had a real hard time. But I was reminded while I was
• 25:48
  in California, some people don't make it.
• 25:50
  I should be grateful to make it to 50, and I am.
• 25:53
  Guys, I had the best time. I will.
• 25:56
  I will tell you all about it if you want me to.
• 25:57
  I had the best time while I was in California.
• 26:02
  And Moni says there's a special place for her under the jail.
• 26:06
  Yeah. She's as diabolical and has no
• 26:08
  soul just as much as Stephen Stearns was for his crimes.
• 26:11
  Yeah. They're just people that, you
• 26:14
  know, most of us. I was talking with Josh Ritter
• 26:16
  on Courtroom Confidential. Like many of us.
• 26:19
  Get desperate when we get so far in debt, right?
• 26:24
  I mean, that's just a natural thing for us to do.
• 26:27
  We get desperate, but most of us don't consider offing the person
• 26:33
  we purportedly love or the the father slash mother of our
• 26:38
  children or, you know, we, we don't consider that it takes a
• 26:42
  very special person. And of course, this is all
• 26:46
  alleged. She has not been convicted of
• 26:48
  anything. But if, if you go by what the
• 26:52
  police and prosecutors are saying, and I think they've got
• 26:54
  a very good strong case, I think that she is going down.
• 26:58
  And I think she had to, I think she I think she had to plead not
• 27:05
  guilty just to roll the dice because that's that's the best
• 27:10
  she can hope for. That is a wonderful little mug.
• 27:16
  Is that not the cutest little thing?
• 27:18
  Look at that. It's adorable.
• 27:25
  Miss the old family while I was away.
• 27:27
  OK, guys, that that's Autumn's. Like, I'm fully here now.
• 27:33
  I had to put the groceries away. Well, Autumn is our fearless
• 27:36
  moderation leader. Autumn, thank you very much for
• 27:39
  being. But that's pretty much all I got
• 27:41
  that. I mean, let me just check the
• 27:42
  notes one more time. Notes that I took.
• 27:44
  I was watching along with Gizela.
• 27:46
  And who else was I watching today?
• 27:51
  And I can't remember, but yeah. So the HELOC, it had been maxed
• 27:57
  out. Her banks account, bank accounts
• 27:59
  were overdrawn. She was borrowing from banks to
• 28:03
  service debt, $5600 in fees for bounced checks.
• 28:08
  That's what it was, the non sufficient funds.
• 28:10
  It wasn't 65, it was 56. I inverted that.
• 28:15
  Yeah, just boring day. Boring day.
• 28:21
  But important information that I hope that the jury stayed awake.
• 28:25
  You know, one of the things that I found funny in this case,
• 28:28
  people. OK, listen, we are supposed to,
• 28:35
  we're supposed to keep the jury members anonymous and somebody
• 28:42
  was in court sketching them, like really sketching them.
• 28:50
  Can't believe people. Listen, we got to be better than
• 28:53
  that people, Emmy says. I used, let's see, I used to
• 28:57
  visit Lehigh twice back in 2015. I've got I've got family members
• 29:02
  who live in that area. That's that's pretty cool.
• 29:06
  Cool beans. All right, So what did we learn
• 29:09
  today? Oh, just that she was in
• 29:10
  financial straits. That is her motive.
• 29:12
  And I think that as we go along, I mean, I went back and I looked
• 29:17
  at all of the all. Let me bring it up for you.
• 29:22
  The what am I trying to say? The documents that have been
• 29:28
  filed in this case there, there, there's just so much.
• 29:34
  But you know, this is one that that kind of tickled my fancy.
• 29:38
  This was her voluntary statement the night that Eric died.
• 29:43
  She did at home at 3:00 AM on the 4th of March 2022.
• 29:46
  Eric and I put the kids to bed around 9:00 PM.
• 29:49
  We had a drink around 9:15 PM to celebrate work.
• 29:52
  Remember, she had purchased a giant, giant house in Heber
• 29:58
  City, which is in Wasatch County.
• 30:00
  That is where my grandparents raised my parents in Heber City.
• 30:06
  My dad calls it the geographic center of the universe.
• 30:09
  For him, it was the the best place in the world to grow up.
• 30:11
  And it's a beautiful, beautiful town.
• 30:14
  But yeah, she had she had closed on this giant house, having been
• 30:18
  so far in debt. We laid in bed for about 5
• 30:22
  minutes. My son was having nightmares so
• 30:24
  I went to sleep in his bed. My husband and I said goodnight
• 30:28
  I love you. I woke up around 3:00 AM to go
• 30:30
  back to bed and got in our bed and went to hug slash cuddle
• 30:34
  Eric and he was freezing. I put a blanket on him and
• 30:38
  gently pushed him and something, but he didn't respond and his
• 30:47
  body was having a weird feeling. I knew something was wrong.
• 30:50
  I turned the lights on. He was pale, not breathing, and
• 30:53
  I called 911. She told me to do ACPR, pull him
• 30:56
  off the bed with the sheets and I did.
• 30:58
  Then the paramedics showed up and took over from there.
• 31:01
  That was her. That's what she said.
• 31:06
  And there's so many documents, so many affidavits of probable
• 31:09
  cause in this that I should probably put that up on the
• 31:13
  website. I never did.
• 31:14
  But it just from the very beginning, I think, I think the
• 31:17
  police were like, I smell something here, the smell of
• 31:23
  fish. I wonder what that could be,
• 31:28
  right. And I, I think they had her
• 31:31
  nailed from the very beginning, but took a long, long time to
• 31:37
  investigate it and and bring justice to to Eric Richins.
• 31:43
  See if there are any other comments before we Nope, we're
• 31:46
  going to go on guys. What time is it?
• 31:49
  It is time for which one do we do first?
• 31:53
  We do three questions. Here we go.
• 32:02
  How? OK, in this segment guys, I
• 32:05
  answer your questions to me that you send and via e-mail, not
• 32:11
  their rules here, OK, that I hate to be that guy, but there
• 32:15
  are rules that we must abide, OK?
• 32:17
  I don't answer questions during the three questions comment
• 32:21
  section from the live comment. I don't do that.
• 32:24
  You have to e-mail them OK, there them's the rules, they
• 32:27
  were established. We have to abide by them, so
• 32:32
  please send your questions to three questions at
• 32:34
  gavinfish.com. It's spelled out.
• 32:36
  Three questions at gavinfish.com.
• 32:38
  THREE questions at gavinfish.com.
• 32:41
  I solemnly promise to answer all the questions that come in to
• 32:44
  the best of my ability. I will do so in the order that I
• 32:48
  find the most interesting, not in order of not in the order
• 32:56
  they received. There are a couple of good
• 32:58
  questions in here. Let's bring them on up, shall
• 33:00
  we? And there are a couple of
• 33:03
  questions like I want to know your opinion on.
• 33:05
  I want to know your your thoughts about them.
• 33:07
  OK, Question number one comes to us from Melody.
• 33:11
  Melody says, do you or have you ever considered doing a meet and
• 33:15
  greet somewhere and discussing cases?
• 33:18
  I think that would be a blast. Well, listen, I have, I've done
• 33:23
  it once. Not exactly how you're
• 33:27
  describing like a meet and greet.
• 33:29
  I did, I did what I called a true crime convo and I it was a
• 33:36
  live in person presentation of a case at that is where I met
• 33:43
  Mooney for the first time in person.
• 33:44
  She travelled all the way up from her beautiful state, which
• 33:48
  is, as we all know for lovers and and you know, few dozen
• 33:54
  people. I think we had 50 people there.
• 33:57
  The issue is that it's really expensive to, to pull one of
• 34:02
  those things off it's way. It's way more expensive than I
• 34:06
  thought it would be. So, you know, I, I charged money
• 34:11
  for the event to cover the to cover the expenses, but I was
• 34:14
  shocked at how expensive it was. Makes me wonder if we were to
• 34:21
  maybe set up a meet and greet alongside crime con or something
• 34:24
  like that, we could do a meet and greet at the thing though is
• 34:30
  I don't know. I don't know the the longer I do
• 34:34
  this and the more crazy things happen.
• 34:41
  I don't know, they're just crazy people in the world.
• 34:43
  I'm not Melody, not you, not you that are watching, but they're
• 34:46
  just crazy people in the world. I'm not I'm not sure.
• 34:48
  I'm not sure you tell me guys, if you would like to do a live
• 34:53
  meet and greet I or, or something like that, maybe we
• 34:57
  could do true crime convo #2 maybe we could do that and have
• 35:02
  a good time doing it. I don't know, let's I'm up for
• 35:05
  it. You tell me you guys tell me,
• 35:06
  you tell me, you guide me on this one question #2 comes to us
• 35:11
  from Debbie. What are your favorite things to
• 35:14
  take photo of photos of? Have you ever entered any of
• 35:18
  your photos in a judging contest?
• 35:23
  As you guys know, or maybe you don't know quite yet, I am an
• 35:27
  amateur photographer. I love photography.
• 35:30
  I started on my photography journey when I was a when I was
• 35:39
  a freshman in high school. That puts me at 13 years old.
• 35:44
  In fact, while I was in California, I think I posted it
• 35:48
  to the tank. Let me see if it's up there.
• 35:51
  Let me get over into the tank here real quick.
• 35:53
  I think I posted a picture of me with my.
• 35:58
  No, it wasn't in the tank. It was just on my Facebook page.
• 36:01
  Give me a second. I'll find it.
• 36:04
  I will find it. Photos.
• 36:12
  There we are. Yeah, there it is.
• 36:13
  OK, so let me. I'm bringing this up.
• 36:15
  This is me with my high school photo teacher, Mr. Thorner
• 36:19
  Castle Roble High School. He and I got together on the
• 36:23
  25th, just like a week or so ago, for the first time since
• 36:28
  1997. This man completely, completely
• 36:32
  changed the trajectory of my life.
• 36:34
  I owe so much to him and other great teachers, by the way, not
• 36:37
  not just him, but Mr. Thorner and I, I took his class for
• 36:42
  three years. He only had photo one and photo
• 36:46
  two. He let me do an independent
• 36:47
  study the third year and on the fourth year I went into the
• 36:50
  journalism track. And yeah, he changed my life,
• 36:56
  guys. And anyway, so the second part
• 37:00
  of the question was, have I ever entered my photos into a judging
• 37:04
  contest? Yeah, I have.
• 37:05
  I OK, so the first part of the question is what do I like to
• 37:08
  take photos of? I like to take photos of people.
• 37:11
  Mr. Thorner was A and is a extremely talented landscape
• 37:18
  photographer, Extremely talented.
• 37:20
  His work is just crazy beautiful.
• 37:25
  I love taking pictures of people and I like taking candid
• 37:30
  pictures of people. I like taking studio portrait.
• 37:33
  Studio portraiture is probably my favorite thing.
• 37:36
  And yeah, now have I ever entered my photos in a judging
• 37:41
  contest? Yes, yes.
• 37:44
  And I've won a couple of gold medals actually for my work over
• 37:49
  the years, many, many, many years ago.
• 37:52
  I, I, I stopped, I stopped entering in contests.
• 37:55
  But yeah, many, many, many years ago I won a couple of gold
• 37:59
  medals with my photography. Yeah.
• 38:01
  And it was fun. And with the Mamia RZ 67 that
• 38:06
  you see on the desk behind me, which Mr. Thorner always called
• 38:10
  a Mamma Mia RZ 67, I am swinging back into medium format film
• 38:17
  photography and I'm really excited about it.
• 38:20
  I'm, I'm going to have a lot of fun with that.
• 38:21
  And I think I will do portraits the old fashioned way on film.
• 38:26
  I'm really looking forward to it.
• 38:27
  Like I'm, I'm stoked about it. I, I might take it out and do
• 38:30
  some other stuff with it too. Like it's a capable camera and
• 38:35
  way more capable than I am as a photographer.
• 38:37
  So we'll probably do some other stuff too.
• 38:41
  OK, Final question. And don't forget, I like, I want
• 38:45
  your responses in the lives in the live chat.
• 38:48
  Would you expand on your comment regarding your experience with
• 38:51
  predatory documentary film makers?
• 38:54
  And this is Ria who asked this. Oh, yeah, I can.
• 38:58
  I can expand on it here. Let me just let me, it's not
• 39:02
  just documentary filmmaking. It is filmmaking in general.
• 39:06
  OK. I, I really just don't like the,
• 39:13
  the way that Hollywood creates art.
• 39:16
  And I recognize that it's a business and, and so it is done
• 39:22
  for the purpose of making money. However, in the documentary
• 39:26
  filmmaking world, it seems like producers make money, directors
• 39:30
  make money. Nobody else makes money.
• 39:34
  In fact, most want, want people to be most, most don't want to
• 39:42
  pay anything for anything beyond, you know, well beyond
• 39:49
  nothing. They don't want to pay money for
• 39:51
  anything. And so I, I will keep the
• 39:55
  production company names and the producers names out of this
• 40:00
  conversation. And, and by the way, I'm not,
• 40:04
  I'm not singling out any one person.
• 40:06
  It is the industry. It is the industry that is the
• 40:10
  problem. So, for example, I worked for
• 40:16
  three years on the Ellen Greenberg case and am probably
• 40:22
  the most organized out of anybody with Ellen's files.
• 40:29
  With anything Ellen Greenberg, I am the most organized.
• 40:32
  I'm backed up. I, you know, I'm, I, I, I'm the
• 40:38
  guy to come to. So of course they came to me,
• 40:40
  right? And I, I had already been burned
• 40:43
  once by a giant and wealthy production company on the Amanda
• 40:48
  Winkowski case. And so I had already learned to
• 40:53
  say no to production companies. But in this case, it was Ellen
• 40:56
  and I wanted to help her parents get a production across the
• 41:01
  finish line. However, I didn't want my 3:00
• 41:04
  work, three years worth of work, to just be given to them in
• 41:08
  perpetuity and exclusively. So they wanted me to give me
• 41:13
  give them all of my work for three years in perpetuity.
• 41:18
  Nobody else could use it exclusive and in perpetuity.
• 41:21
  They wanted to pay me $10,000. I told him to kick rocks
• 41:27
  $10,000. What did Ellen Dakota Fanning
• 41:30
  make on that and what did they do?
• 41:35
  And, and they're people I admire.
• 41:37
  I love L Fanning and I love Dakota Fanning, but what did
• 41:40
  they do? They came in at the last minute,
• 41:42
  put their names attached to it, and I, I don't know, paid for it
• 41:50
  to be produced, but but they sold it before they paid for it,
• 41:55
  right? It's sold first, so they know
• 41:57
  exactly how much money. I just hate it all.
• 42:00
  I just hate it all. And I get people reaching out to
• 42:03
  me, not terribly frequently, maybe a couple times a month
• 42:07
  saying we'd really love you to be a part of this documentary
• 42:10
  series or we'd really like you to be part of this blah, blah,
• 42:13
  blah. And the answer now is just no.
• 42:16
  No, I hate not I don't hate the people.
• 42:19
  I hate the business. It just sucks and I hate it and
• 42:23
  and you know, I just hate it. So when you go and see death in
• 42:32
  apartment 6O3, you will notice that there is a lot that is
• 42:35
  missing. It's because they didn't get it
• 42:38
  from me because I I wouldn't sell in perpetuity exclusively
• 42:43
  as dumb. And they would say stuff like
• 42:47
  Gavin, this is just the way we do things, OK?
• 42:51
  It's the way you do things. It's not the way I do things.
• 42:55
  And and this is really ghost to be talking about money like
• 42:57
  this. But look, if I like, if I'm
• 42:59
  working hard on something and I am the expert and I am the
• 43:03
  person that has collected everything into a neat little
• 43:08
  tidy bow, you know, neat little tidy file with a bow on it, then
• 43:16
  then you got to pay me for my work.
• 43:18
  That's just, that's just the way it is.
• 43:20
  And they, they always want to make the money and not pay it
• 43:23
  out. And it's, it's super predatory.
• 43:25
  Now, I could tell you, oh, dude, the Amanda Winkowski case, Oh my
• 43:30
  goodness. And the Amanda Winkowski case I
• 43:34
  full on was going out and filming witnesses and law
• 43:42
  enforcement and I was getting documents that hadn't been
• 43:45
  obtained and I was doing it on behalf of the production
• 43:48
  company. And then they're like, well, we
• 43:50
  can't pay you for this. Like I got to feed my family,
• 43:54
  man. So yeah, we, we will make tons
• 43:57
  of money on this, but I'm sorry we can't share that with you.
• 44:01
  Drove me crazy. So yeah, that's, that is what I
• 44:07
  feel about that. That's how I feel.
• 44:11
  They're they're just super predatory and I don't like them.
• 44:15
  Those are your three questions. Now I want to get your feedback
• 44:20
  on the questions. Would you like to come to a meet
• 44:23
  and greet and what was the, what's your hobby?
• 44:25
  You know, if you have you ever, if you ever entered your, your
• 44:29
  work, your hobby into exhibits and stuff like that, Love to
• 44:32
  hear about that. And then, yeah, any, any
• 44:35
  thoughts on the business of true crime?
• 44:39
  I I would love your thoughts. And while you're using your
• 44:42
  thumbs to tell me all about that, let's hop into some
• 44:46
  headlines, shall we? True crime headlines.
• 44:55
  OK, I got a few headlines for you tonight.
• 44:58
  First one having to do this one is a few days old, but I was I
• 45:04
  was Mia and so let me just bring us all up to date.
• 45:08
  New motion is filed in the Morphew case related to the
• 45:11
  release of Suzanne Morphew's remains.
• 45:13
  Dateline, Alamosa County, Colorado a lawyer for Suzanne
• 45:16
  Morphew's daughters has filed a motion related to the release of
• 45:20
  Suzanne's remains, claiming that the state wrongfully took her
• 45:24
  remains from the Funeral Home they'd been given.
• 45:28
  They'd been given to before. Oh, the Funeral Home had been
• 45:32
  given to before a service could be held, according to the motion
• 45:35
  filed last week. Suzanne's next of kin.
• 45:37
  His names are redacted in most of the publicly available
• 45:40
  document, but unredacted in the document's conclusion.
• 45:43
  Had planned a funeral service for Suzanne after the Chaffee
• 45:47
  County coroner released her remains in April 2024.
• 45:51
  The documents claim her remains were released to a Funeral Home
• 45:53
  at the request of the next of kin, but quote without warning
• 45:57
  and contrary to the prior lawful release, the state took
• 46:00
  possession of them. The motion is seeking an
• 46:03
  explanation from the state to explain why Suzanne's remains
• 46:06
  were taken and why they're being withheld, a temporary
• 46:09
  restraining order preventing the state from interfering in the
• 46:11
  next of Kins, possession and burial of Suzanne, and the
• 46:15
  immediate release of Suzanne's remains.
• 46:17
  When asked about the motion, Swan Law funeral director said
• 46:20
  quote, because we value the privacy of the families we are
• 46:22
  honored to serve, we cannot comment on an active
• 46:25
  investigation. However, we are working closely
• 46:28
  with the local authorities and hope this matter is resolved
• 46:30
  soon. So I didn't know that.
• 46:32
  I didn't know that the state still had custody of Suzanne
• 46:36
  Morphew's remains, but it looks like they are gearing up of a
• 46:41
  fight for a fight there. In regards to the the
• 46:45
  prosecution of Barrymore Few, I have not seen any new news on
• 46:48
  that. Turning to the Kevin Mullins
• 46:53
  case, this coming to us from kentucky.com written by Taylor 6
• 46:58
  headline reads Ex Letcher sheriff will not testify at a
• 47:01
  civil assault trial. You guys remember that in the
• 47:06
  Judge Kevin Mullins case, Let me bring up Judge Mullins Mickey
• 47:12
  Stein shot Kevin Mullins. I can confidently say because it
• 47:16
  was done on video shot Kevin Mullins death in his chamber and
• 47:22
  it was on a Thursday after he had been deposed on a Monday in
• 47:27
  a civil a federal civil case where two women, Sabrina Atkins
• 47:32
  and Jennifer Hill. Jennifer Hill's estate has been
• 47:35
  dismissed from the lawsuit. Now she is the late Jennifer
• 47:38
  Hill, but Sabrina Atkins lawsuit remains.
• 47:43
  He had been deposed in that in that lawsuit and it seems to be
• 47:49
  that that was the root cause of him.
• 47:54
  Something happened leading up to and in the aftermath of his
• 48:01
  testimony or in his deposition. He then was charged with murder
• 48:06
  and he was dismissed from the case because he was no longer
• 48:09
  the sheriff. OK, So that that brings us to
• 48:12
  where we are. The former Eastern Kentucky
• 48:15
  sheriff charged with killing a District Judge in 2024 will not
• 48:18
  testify at the civil trial of his former employee accused of
• 48:22
  exchanging legal leniency for sexual favors.
• 48:25
  Sean Mickey Steins, 45, the former sheriff in Letcher
• 48:27
  County, was initially scheduled to testify in the trial this
• 48:30
  week of his former deputy, Ben Fields.
• 48:33
  Instead, a redacted version of his deposition of a deposition
• 48:37
  Steins gave during the investigation of Fields will
• 48:40
  serve as Stein's testimony. Topics will include include
• 48:44
  protocol, training and culture while he was at the head of the
• 48:48
  Sheriff's Department. And I actually have a copy of
• 48:50
  that deposition. It's not all that redacted.
• 48:54
  Stein's lawyer previously told investigators the tense
• 48:56
  deposition, which happened just days before Stein's was captured
• 48:59
  on camera shooting and killing Letcher County Judge Kevin
• 49:02
  Mullins and the judge's chambers on September 19th, 2024, would
• 49:06
  be crucial to his clients defense, but he has not said
• 49:09
  exactly how. So we'll see what happens.
• 49:14
  So that's what's happening to Mickey Stein's.
• 49:17
  And then lastly, a headline I have for you this from
• 49:21
  yesterday, you remember Daniel Martel, the stepfather of Lily
• 49:28
  and Jack Sullivan had been arrested on an essay of an
• 49:33
  adult. Well, he appeared in court.
• 49:35
  So this coming to us from saltwire.com.
• 49:39
  Aaron Beswick is our writer headline stepfather of missing
• 49:42
  Nova Scotia siblings Jack and Lily Sullivan.
• 49:45
  We should bring up Jack and Lily.
• 49:48
  These they're still missing. We have no idea where these
• 49:51
  kiddos are and would it be great to get them back, but sadly the
• 49:59
  odds are not in our favor. So stepfather of missing Nova
• 50:03
  Scotia siblings Jack and Lily Sullivan appears in court on SA
• 50:06
  other charges again. Aaron Beswick says Pictou
• 50:10
  Provincial Court was packed Monday morning as Daniel Martel
• 50:13
  made his first appearance on charges of SA assault and
• 50:17
  forcible confinement. Martel, 34, is stepfather to
• 50:20
  Jack and Lily Sullivan. And then it just kind of recaps
• 50:25
  the case. A publication ban prohibits
• 50:29
  releasing any information that could identify Martel's alleged
• 50:32
  victim, who has only been identified by police as an
• 50:36
  adult. The charges, which Crown
• 50:38
  attorney Bill Gorman said stem from an incident or incidents
• 50:42
  over a year ago, will proceed by indictment.
• 50:45
  The charges are not related to the missing children.
• 50:48
  Martel is scheduled to appear back in Pictou Court on March
• 50:53
  30th. So that's what we have going on.
• 50:56
  Mr. Martel's case, though, no update in anything regarding
• 51:04
  Jack and Lily. Those are our headlines.
• 51:12
  True crime headlines. All righty let's see what you
• 51:15
  guys are saying in the old chatteroo Mooney saying I am in
• 51:21
  for true crime convo #2 maybe we do it.
• 51:24
  Maybe we do talk about a case or cases.
• 51:27
  Maybe we could make it longer. Maybe we could have little
• 51:30
  breakout sessions. Maybe we could have a guest,
• 51:33
  maybe maybe Josh or or Joel or Cherylin might be game for a
• 51:40
  visit here to maybe not even Worcester, Pennsylvania.
• 51:43
  Maybe we do it in a big city where where we could easily
• 51:48
  travel to. Maybe Pittsburgh True crime
• 51:51
  convo or something. I don't know.
• 51:54
  Emmy's also in for true crime convo #2 Robin says.
• 52:01
  I'm with Mooney as your moderators, we will keep the
• 52:03
  weirdos away except for ourselves, because we're the
• 52:05
  good kind of weirdos. Indeed, indeed, indeed.
• 52:11
  Mooney saying. Great T-shirt from Mr. Thorner,
• 52:13
  right? Mr. Thorner always rocked the
• 52:17
  graphic Tees of the heavy metal bands, and I learned so much
• 52:20
  about him in the couple hours that we spent together.
• 52:23
  Was so much fun. It was just so much fun.
• 52:25
  Also in this picture, there are a lot of people that are
• 52:28
  surprised at how tall I am and they go, whoa, really funny.
• 52:35
  I'm not super tall. I'm 62.
• 52:37
  That's that's how tall I am. Let's see.
• 52:41
  So Mooney's gearing up for Metallica.
• 52:45
  Pretty cool. Let's see.
• 52:47
  Scotch's mom says that sounds like fun, but it would, but it
• 52:50
  would be too far and expensive for me to travel to.
• 52:53
  My favorite things to take pictures of are my grandson and
• 52:56
  my cat never entered them in a contest.
• 52:59
  Animal photography is, is fun. I, I, I'm not very good at it
• 53:04
  because animals behave animaly animal like animal ask, you
• 53:10
  know, it's just, it's just hard. Though I do have a beautiful
• 53:15
  photo. Do I still have this?
• 53:21
  I don't think I have it in this room right now.
• 53:24
  I have a beautiful photo that I took of our first dog, Marshall.
• 53:29
  That was really good. Oh, he's a handsome boy.
• 53:32
  Handsome boy. Ohio Palm.
• 53:36
  Mom says you're smart to keep control over your work.
• 53:39
  Yeah, I don't want to. I don't want to give it away or
• 53:42
  sell it exclusively and in perpetuity.
• 53:45
  It's dumb, Emmy says. Someone on Surviving the
• 53:49
  Survivor chat said they saw Sam at the Olympics coverage.
• 53:53
  I saw it too. There was a, there was a crew
• 53:55
  photo that I saw Sam. And yeah, Emmy says my hobbies
• 54:00
  are jigsaw puzzles and cross stitching.
• 54:02
  Well, you, you chose the very hobbies of my mother-in-law and
• 54:07
  my mother. That's pretty cool.
• 54:09
  Pretty fun, Mooney says. I did have etchings hanging in
• 54:14
  the National Collection of Fine Arts in DC for a bit and won
• 54:18
  awards in high school. Very cool.
• 54:20
  I also had my sets written up for theater reviews.
• 54:23
  Awesome. Emmy says we could do the true
• 54:28
  crime convo online. Last time I did not stream true
• 54:36
  crime convo, but that is something that we could do.
• 54:40
  Where I mean, I would probably want to charge for it because
• 54:46
  because it's just so expensive to pull off.
• 54:48
  It's usually the venue that is the the it's just hard.
• 54:53
  So we could live stream. I did not live stream the last
• 54:56
  one. And Autumn says I'll be in
• 54:59
  Pittsburgh for three weeks. Let's go.
• 55:02
  Maybe. Maybe we do a true crime combo
• 55:04
  too. Maybe I'm also thinking about
• 55:07
  doing a, another scavenger hunt like we did for the the baby
• 55:13
  Gavin, the baby Gavin is missing in 2025.
• 55:17
  I'm trying to find different ways to be engaging, to have fun
• 55:21
  because we talk about such, we talk about such macabre and
• 55:30
  morose things and true crime. It's actually fun just to have a
• 55:35
  little fun, you know, just, you know, blow off some of that
• 55:41
  steam and be be a little, little less serious.
• 55:45
  In fact, that's outside of the channel.
• 55:50
  Most most people who are my friends are surprised to find
• 55:53
  out that I have a true crime channel because it's just not.
• 55:56
  It's my personality is a goofy 1 is a funny 1.
• 56:00
  So, and let's see, Emmy says I I get it, but can't fly or travel.
• 56:08
  I get it too. Always American, Annie says have
• 56:11
  the convo at the city with the biggest crime rate.
• 56:14
  So the hotel should be cheap. Oh, that is brilliance.
• 56:18
  That is brilliance. Take it at a place that's cheap
• 56:21
  to fly into and cheap to stay. I like that idea a lot.
• 56:27
  I I honestly don't know how like crime con Uki go to and I love
• 56:33
  going to and they have a beautiful venue and yeah, they
• 56:36
  charge hundreds of dollars for tickets, but I still don't get
• 56:39
  how they can even make even close to a profit on that.
• 56:43
  It's just, I mean, there's sponsorships must really pay
• 56:48
  because it's just so expensive, man.
• 56:51
  All right, guys, thanks so much for spending a little bit of
• 56:53
  time with me today. I apologize once again for all
• 56:55
  of the technological issues that that prevented me from being
• 57:01
  with you over the last week. I also, I also, oh, let's see,
• 57:07
  Emmy says not in general, just during the school year, don't
• 57:10
  travel without my husband and kid.
• 57:11
  Oh, yeah. OK.
• 57:12
  Maybe we do it in the summertime.
• 57:13
  Maybe we do it during the summer.
• 57:17
  This summer is, is a big travel summer for me and my family.
• 57:23
  So I don't know. We'll have to, we'll have to
• 57:24
  think about it or maybe over a spring break or something like
• 57:27
  that. We'll have to think.
• 57:30
  We'll have to think, maybe I can, maybe I can make some calls
• 57:35
  to some people who know how to put on events, see if that's
• 57:38
  something we could do. All right, guys, we will be back
• 57:40
  tomorrow, 6:30 PM Eastern. I've noticed that my friend
• 57:44
  Joseph Scott Morgan has been talking a lot about Nancy
• 57:46
  Guthrie and I know it's kind of falling out of the zeitgeist.
• 57:49
  I'm going to reach out to him, see if he has any availability
• 57:53
  to come on and talk about Nancy's case here in the next
• 57:56
  week or two. I always love his insights.
• 57:59
  Remember that you can always reach out to me on my website,
• 58:02
  gavinfish.com and join us over on the Tank.
• 58:05
  Will you in on Facebook that the easiest way to get to it is if
• 58:09
  you go to meal website, you can click on this little icon up in
• 58:14
  the corner that looks like a fishy and that will take you to
• 58:16
  the fish tank, which is where we hang out on Facebook.
• 58:21
  It looks like this and you'll find us there.
• 58:25
  I'd love to have you join us. No guilt.
• 58:27
  But you're always, always, always invited.
• 58:31
  And with that guys, I shall bid you adieu until tomorrow, 6:00
• 58:34
  PM Eastern Time. Until then, please take care of
• 58:37
  yourselves. Have a good night.
• 58:40
  Thank you very much for watching this video.
• 58:42
  If you liked what you saw, please consider subscribing.
• 58:45
  And if you have any questions or comments, please leave them
• 58:48
  below.