Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / #HURDLEMOMENT: How To Breathe For Optimal Sleep, Stress Management & Performance

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#HURDLEMOMENT: How To Breathe For Optimal Sleep, Stress Management & Performance · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: The first thing you do when you enter the world
0:02
Speaker 1: is breathe, and the last thing you do when you
0:04
Speaker 1: leave the world is stop breathing. So literally, it's fundamental
0:07
Speaker 1: to being a lie and it's something we do subconsciously
0:10
Speaker 1: around twenty thousand times a day. So for me, it's like,
0:13
Speaker 1: let's try and optimize it, because you're gonna perform and
0:16
Speaker 1: think and feel and be a lot better within yourself
0:19
Speaker 1: if you optimize what that thing is that you're doing
0:22
Speaker 1: so many times today.
0:23
Speaker 2: Ye good morning, good afternoon, Good evening. Emily Abadi. Here
0:42
Speaker 2: you are listening to another installment of Hurdle Moment from Hurdle,
0:46
Speaker 2: a wellness focused podcast. Reconnect with everyone from your favorite
0:49
Speaker 2: athletes to top experts and industry CEOs about their highest highs,
0:54
Speaker 2: toughest moments, and everything in between.
0:57
Speaker 3: We all go through hurdles in.
0:58
Speaker 2: Life, and Michael through these conversations is to inspire you
1:02
Speaker 2: to better navigate yours and move with intention so that
1:05
Speaker 2: you can stride towards your own big potential and of
1:08
Speaker 2: course have some fun along the way. You know, the
1:13
Speaker 2: funniest thing about that intro is that I gosh, I've
1:15
Speaker 2: been using it for at least three seasons now and
1:20
Speaker 2: I still up until recently needed to read it.
1:24
Speaker 3: I finally got it down. You are welcome hurdle moment.
1:29
Speaker 2: This week, we're talking about all things breath with my
1:32
Speaker 2: friend Michael Watts. He's a human performance scientist who focuses
1:37
Speaker 2: on human optimization AKA. This man is a wealth of knowledge.
1:44
Speaker 2: We're not just talking about breath work. You know that
1:47
Speaker 2: box breath that you might do every morning to really
1:50
Speaker 2: come into your body and your feelings. We are talking
1:53
Speaker 2: about how you can optimize your breath for everything that
1:57
Speaker 2: you do, from navigating stress and better digestion, to how
2:02
Speaker 2: you perform during your workouts when you're under pressure, getting
2:07
Speaker 2: optimal sleep, and so much more. Mike is the guy
2:11
Speaker 2: to give us all of the know how and really
2:13
Speaker 2: shed some light on how we can be giving ourselves
2:17
Speaker 2: a little bit of a.
2:18
Speaker 3: Leg up right.
2:19
Speaker 2: We hear so often about the supplements and other things
2:22
Speaker 2: that we can in take to better our situation, whatever
2:26
Speaker 2: that situation might be. But turns out, according to Mike,
2:31
Speaker 2: that breathing could be the secret sauce to get you
2:34
Speaker 2: exactly where you want to be. I really enjoy this
2:38
Speaker 2: conversation and I always love connecting with someone who truly
2:42
Speaker 2: is just such an expert in their field. At the
2:45
Speaker 2: end of this conversation, Mike talks about a new project
2:48
Speaker 2: that he's working on. I encourage you to listen to
2:50
Speaker 2: the end because he's got a really cool opportunity for
2:54
Speaker 2: some of you if you reach out to him in
2:57
Speaker 2: the DMS. Again all that information at the end of
2:59
Speaker 2: this episode. Make sure you're following along with Hurdle over
3:03
Speaker 2: on social It is at Hurdle Podcast. I myself am
3:06
Speaker 2: over at Emily a body. I want to thank all
3:09
Speaker 2: of the hurdlers that came out to last week's Hurdler
3:12
Speaker 2: Huddle in New York City. We had, Oh my gosh,
3:15
Speaker 2: such a blast. It was so great to connect with
3:17
Speaker 2: all of you irl. I promise more in person events
3:20
Speaker 2: coming this fall and way more workshops.
3:24
Speaker 3: Coming in the new year, so stay tuned on that.
3:29
Speaker 2: Last but not least, I am running low on listener questions,
3:32
Speaker 2: and I know you have them because you are in
3:34
Speaker 2: my DMS.
3:35
Speaker 3: All of the time. So if you could just do
3:37
Speaker 3: me a solid.
3:38
Speaker 2: If you love getting Hurdle in your feed week after week,
3:40
Speaker 2: which I know that you do, click on over to
3:42
Speaker 2: the show notes and click leave me a voice message,
3:45
Speaker 2: help me, help you, And with that, let's get to it.
3:49
Speaker 3: Let's get to hurdling. Today.
3:58
Speaker 2: I am sitting down with Michael. He's a human performance scientist.
4:02
Speaker 2: He specializes in human optimization. Man, that sounds jazzy. How
4:06
Speaker 2: are you doing today?
4:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm great, Thanks, Emily. Excited to talk all things
4:10
Speaker 1: human performance and hopefully really dive into breath work.
4:15
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Now you and I have known each
4:17
Speaker 2: other for some time. We met while you were working
4:20
Speaker 2: at under Armour. Give the hurdler some insight into your
4:24
Speaker 2: career journey so that they can know the guy that's
4:26
Speaker 2: about to school them on all things breath right.
4:30
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So it's a longer journey as I get older,
4:33
Speaker 1: so bear with me. But my career within i'd say
4:38
Speaker 1: performance began sort of in the early two thousands and
4:41
Speaker 1: I was given the opportunity to go and work as
4:44
Speaker 1: a performance coach with a professional soccer team out in China,
4:49
Speaker 1: and I took a leap of faith and I just
4:51
Speaker 1: went I probably wasn't technically experienced or qualified enough and
4:55
Speaker 1: it was like this sink or swim moment where I went.
4:59
Speaker 1: It was a a two month gig and I ended
5:02
Speaker 1: up being there for two years and it was something
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Speaker 1: that I really just flew with and it became sort
5:09
Speaker 1: of a very natural part of my life to be
5:12
Speaker 1: able to go and coach and work with people in
5:14
Speaker 1: a performance sense. When I reflect back and think about
5:17
Speaker 1: what the experience gave me. Because I couldn't speak Chinese,
5:22
Speaker 1: I had to really understand and learn how to coach people.
5:24
Speaker 1: I couldn't use my words. I had to use my
5:28
Speaker 1: actions and I had to demonstrate, and I think it
5:30
Speaker 1: was a really good grounding for me to go into
5:33
Speaker 1: the world of performance and at that time, like really
5:36
Speaker 1: data collection was just about heart rate monitors and you
5:40
Speaker 1: were working in the field or in the gym with
5:42
Speaker 1: the athletes just to get them prepared for a game
5:45
Speaker 1: and then recover them. After a couple of years there,
5:48
Speaker 1: I was called back to the UK and I started
5:51
Speaker 1: to work for a number of different EPL teams Premier
5:54
Speaker 1: League soccer teams, and during that time continued my education,
5:58
Speaker 1: did my masters in science, and I also had the
6:02
Speaker 1: privilege to represent my country and work for the women's
6:05
Speaker 1: national team for England as well. So that kind of
6:07
Speaker 1: spanned over twelve years of working at the highest level
6:11
Speaker 1: of soccer and starting to think about how athletes perform
6:16
Speaker 1: and try and optimize. I was then recruited to come
6:20
Speaker 1: to the USA and work for under Armour as their
6:23
Speaker 1: head of Performance and Physiology, and that really was where
6:28
Speaker 1: I'd say my world began to open up because I
6:30
Speaker 1: was given the opportunity to go and explore what I
6:32
Speaker 1: would call human performance, not just athlete performance. And there's
6:36
Speaker 1: a very very big difference. I think the athlete world
6:41
Speaker 1: is very rushed. There's a lot of athletes, there's not
6:44
Speaker 1: many members of staff, there's not a lot of time,
6:48
Speaker 1: so they don't have the opportunity to explore. So I
6:51
Speaker 1: came to under Armor and I was looking at things
6:54
Speaker 1: like sleep and hormones and DNA and movement and mindset
7:00
Speaker 1: and breathing, a very holistic or integrated approach to performance.
7:05
Speaker 1: And what I quickly realized is the athletes have started
7:08
Speaker 1: to work with the under Armor were multi sports, basketball, football,
7:13
Speaker 1: speed skating, crossfait, you name it, like working, and there
7:17
Speaker 1: was this red thread that ran through all of them.
7:20
Speaker 1: If we could optimize the health and wellness to how
7:23
Speaker 1: they thought, move, breathe, how they would nourish themselves, we
7:28
Speaker 1: could actually increase performance and we didn't have to lift
7:32
Speaker 1: any more weight or do any more sprints. There was
7:36
Speaker 1: this white space to go and work in. So it
7:38
Speaker 1: was really this opportunity where I was able to go
7:40
Speaker 1: and continue my studies. I did another postgrad degree in
7:44
Speaker 1: nutrition and sports performance, actually did my manual therapy license
7:49
Speaker 1: as well. Studied polybagel theory like the nervous system. So
7:54
Speaker 1: became very thoughtful and mindful that the body in the
7:58
Speaker 1: mind are so interconne and these things that we think
8:03
Speaker 1: or do have this knock on effect, which led me
8:07
Speaker 1: to really get to this moment of human performance and
8:11
Speaker 1: to sort of bring you up to speed. That's probably
8:14
Speaker 1: like a twenty to twenty one year journey of being
8:17
Speaker 1: very green in the industry, being very traditional, doing sort
8:22
Speaker 1: of what I thought was the right thing, and then developing.
8:26
Speaker 1: And I think one of my character strengths is curiosity
8:30
Speaker 1: and it is still to this day, and I love
8:32
Speaker 1: to talk to people and I love to explore. And
8:36
Speaker 1: it really gave me the opportunity to speak to amazing
8:39
Speaker 1: experts and amazing scientists in disciplines that weren't connected to
8:44
Speaker 1: athletes or performance so to speak. But it was all
8:47
Speaker 1: around how can I make an individual perform better at
8:51
Speaker 1: their craft, whether it be a sport. Now, I'll work
8:54
Speaker 1: with a lot of CEOs and a lot of consumers
8:57
Speaker 1: as well, because ultimately the physiology is very similar, the
9:01
Speaker 1: nervous system response is very similar. So we're just trying
9:05
Speaker 1: to get somebody to perform better for their craft.
9:09
Speaker 2: Fascinating stuff, and I feel like this point is worth
9:12
Speaker 2: driving home again. What I'm hearing you say is that
9:16
Speaker 2: there are so many things we can do beyond sport involvement,
9:20
Speaker 2: beyond physical performance, to level up our physical performance. So
9:25
Speaker 2: we're talking again, sleep, nutrition, how you're managing your stress,
9:29
Speaker 2: so many other variables that can really give you an
9:32
Speaker 2: edge in whatever your sport may be.
9:35
Speaker 1: Correct, and I think people have been slightly conditioned to
9:39
Speaker 1: think the more is better. I've got to do this
9:41
Speaker 1: hit class five times a week. I've got to run,
9:44
Speaker 1: I've got a sprint. And what we need to realize
9:47
Speaker 1: they actually take away from us physically and mentally. And
9:51
Speaker 1: if you think about this boocket analogy, and it's full,
9:53
Speaker 1: and every time you work out, you take a cup
9:57
Speaker 1: of water and you're empty, and you keep empty the boocket,
10:00
Speaker 1: and it leads to things like fatigue, It can lead
10:03
Speaker 1: to illness, It can lead to depression, like in severe cases,
10:08
Speaker 1: just a lack of ability to want to do things
10:10
Speaker 1: that you love. So really thinking more integrated or holistically
10:15
Speaker 1: of how do I fill my bucket back up?
10:17
Speaker 4: What things can I do? Is it sleep?
10:21
Speaker 1: Is it nutrition? Is it community? Is it meditation? Is
10:24
Speaker 1: it breath work? Like, there's so many things we can do,
10:28
Speaker 1: but we've sort of been conditioned to think more is better,
10:32
Speaker 1: and how we live our lives now in day to
10:35
Speaker 1: day life is stressful. Everything stressful. And I know we've
10:39
Speaker 1: had this conversation before about burnout, and it can be
10:43
Speaker 1: physical stress, mental stress. The body doesn't really know the difference.
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Speaker 1: You just keep taking from the boocket and eventually going
10:50
Speaker 1: to hit a point where you're overreaching yourself and you
10:54
Speaker 1: could almost lead into overtraining where your body says stop enough,
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Speaker 1: I'm done, and it puts the brakes on you.
11:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also especially important to keep in mind, I
11:03
Speaker 2: know right now in New York, I think the real
11:06
Speaker 2: feel is one oh five today, So those stressors are
11:09
Speaker 2: even heightened right when we're getting out there. If you're
11:11
Speaker 2: being active, if you're just walking around and knowing that
11:16
Speaker 2: you can.
11:17
Speaker 3: Take a step back.
11:18
Speaker 2: You can dial it down, you can do whatever you
11:20
Speaker 2: need to do so that you're not getting to this
11:22
Speaker 2: point where your bucket is completely empty.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And I think from a mindset
11:29
Speaker 1: point of view, and this is the trick I've started
11:33
Speaker 1: to really apply to myself is not to feel guilty
11:36
Speaker 1: or bad about missing a workout and having more of
11:39
Speaker 1: a plan periodizing what you're going to do, because if
11:42
Speaker 1: you set things out, you're more likely to follow it
11:45
Speaker 1: and you more likely to have success versus just sporadically
11:50
Speaker 1: doing this or doing that, or doing what you feel like.
11:52
Speaker 1: Really starting to be a little bit more thoughtful around
11:54
Speaker 1: how we approach a health, a wellness.
11:56
Speaker 4: And a fitness.
11:57
Speaker 2: Definitely, well, you have given us such extensive rundown, so
12:02
Speaker 2: much knowledge here. I just know it, and I know
12:05
Speaker 2: that as of the last few years, you've become really
12:08
Speaker 2: interested in the study of breath which is what I
12:12
Speaker 2: brought you in here specifically to talk about today. Talk
12:15
Speaker 2: to us a little bit about what that journey's been
12:18
Speaker 2: like for you.
12:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this started probably around seven years ago for me.
12:23
Speaker 1: My previous sports life, no consideration to breath work, no
12:27
Speaker 1: consideration to how athletes breathed for performance or recovery. And
12:31
Speaker 1: then I met a guy called Patrick mckeone who's an author,
12:35
Speaker 1: researcher and written a number of books now around breath work.
12:40
Speaker 1: And I met him in downtown Portland and he brought
12:42
Speaker 1: this big folder full of research around breathwork. And as
12:47
Speaker 1: a scientist, I like evidence and I like research papers.
12:51
Speaker 1: And we're sat in a coffee shop and he's talking
12:52
Speaker 1: to me, and it was too good to be true.
12:56
Speaker 1: Like I was very very skeptical, thinking, so you're telling me,
13:00
Speaker 1: either if I breathe correctly, I can perform better, I
13:04
Speaker 1: can recover better, I can manage stress and anxiety, I
13:07
Speaker 1: can sleep better, all these things. As a performance scientist
13:13
Speaker 1: we're trying to do with our athletes, but just by breathing,
13:16
Speaker 1: we can do that. So took the research and start
13:20
Speaker 1: to rethrough and it started to make more and more
13:22
Speaker 1: sense to me. There's more time with Patrick, and eventually
13:26
Speaker 1: became certified in his way of breathing and became a
13:30
Speaker 1: master instructor for him as well, and found that breath
13:34
Speaker 1: work is a very untapped or big area of opportunity
13:38
Speaker 1: for anyone, whether it's an athlete or a normal person.
13:42
Speaker 1: How we breathe is such an important factor into how
13:45
Speaker 1: we feel and think, and what I did find was
13:49
Speaker 1: that not many people would doing it, applying it, thinking
13:53
Speaker 1: about it.
13:54
Speaker 4: So it became a very easy entry point for me.
13:56
Speaker 1: If an athlete was on a team or an individual
14:00
Speaker 1: was already working with somebody, they weren't considering this area.
14:04
Speaker 1: So it was a very easy onboarding to go and
14:06
Speaker 1: start working with someone to say, hey, let's optimize your
14:09
Speaker 1: breath work because it's going to help what you're doing
14:11
Speaker 1: here or compliment what you're doing here. So that was
14:13
Speaker 1: really my onboarding and in the last seven years working
14:18
Speaker 1: with everyone from World Champs, Olympic gold medalists down to
14:22
Speaker 1: just people who have like sleep apne and want to
14:25
Speaker 1: figure that one out and really understanding these principles of
14:28
Speaker 1: like how do you assess breathing in order to bring
14:33
Speaker 1: an intervention or bring breathing exercises that are appropriate for
14:36
Speaker 1: that individual. And I think that's the big point when
14:39
Speaker 1: it comes to breath work totally.
14:41
Speaker 2: And so the first thing I want to reiterate here
14:43
Speaker 2: is the conversation that we are about to get into
14:46
Speaker 2: extends to all breathing, right, So yes, we'll talk about
14:50
Speaker 2: breathwork and the practice of strategic breath work as well,
14:53
Speaker 2: but we're really just dialing it down to the science
14:56
Speaker 2: behind why we breathe, what their breath is doing for
14:59
Speaker 2: the bi and how to optimize that breath for a
15:02
Speaker 2: number of different processes, you know, optimal health, optimal learning,
15:06
Speaker 2: optimal performance, optimal mood, and so on. So at the
15:10
Speaker 2: very foundation, And this might be a silly question, but
15:13
Speaker 2: I firmly believe there's no such thing as silly questions.
15:17
Speaker 3: Why are we breathing?
15:19
Speaker 1: Well, ultimately, it's to feed ourselves with oxygen like that
15:23
Speaker 1: that's the name of the game. Like, that's what keeps
15:26
Speaker 1: us alive. So if we think about how critical it
15:29
Speaker 1: air is. The first thing you do when you enter
15:31
Speaker 1: the world is breathe, and the last thing you do
15:34
Speaker 1: when you leave the world is stop breathing. So literally,
15:36
Speaker 1: it's fundamental to being alive. So if we take that
15:40
Speaker 1: and think, okay, it's very, very important, and it's something
15:43
Speaker 1: we do subconscously around twenty thousand times a day, so
15:46
Speaker 1: it's critical for life and I do.
15:49
Speaker 4: It a lot.
15:51
Speaker 1: If you put those things together, then for me, it's like,
15:54
Speaker 1: let's try to optimize it, because you're going to perform
15:56
Speaker 1: and think and feel and be a lot better within
15:59
Speaker 1: yourself if you optimize what that thing is that you're
16:03
Speaker 1: doing so many times a day.
16:05
Speaker 3: Definitely.
16:06
Speaker 2: So when I say you can optimize it for all
16:10
Speaker 2: of those different areas that I give those examples of,
16:12
Speaker 2: someone might hear that and think, Okay, it's not just
16:15
Speaker 2: you optimize it in one way. Why don't we start
16:17
Speaker 2: by elaborating on that.
16:19
Speaker 1: Okay, So when we think about breathing, and sometimes people
16:23
Speaker 1: will call it functional breathing, but what we want to
16:25
Speaker 1: understand is breathing can be different or look different or
16:30
Speaker 1: sound different depending on the occasion. So for example, it
16:35
Speaker 1: could be slow, and it could be deep, and it
16:38
Speaker 1: could be quiet, and it could be with the nose,
16:41
Speaker 1: or it could be the complete opposite, where it's fast
16:43
Speaker 1: and noisy and with the mouth and it's very shallow.
16:48
Speaker 1: Most of the time, we want to be slow, deep, quiet,
16:53
Speaker 1: and with the.
16:54
Speaker 4: Nose, so it's in out and a pause.
16:57
Speaker 1: We place the tongue in the roof of the mouth
16:58
Speaker 1: and we breathe towards the back of throat during rest,
17:04
Speaker 1: during sleep, during low activity or low intensity activities. We
17:10
Speaker 1: want to breathe in this manner because we're not placing
17:13
Speaker 1: so much demand on our system where we have to
17:15
Speaker 1: sort of breathe in that different way. But if we
17:18
Speaker 1: breathe in this more functional way for this lower intensity
17:22
Speaker 1: or this rest, we're going to push more oxygen towards ourselves.
17:26
Speaker 1: We're going to feel calmer in the mind and less stressed.
17:30
Speaker 1: We're not going to activate that sympathetic drive, and we're
17:34
Speaker 1: also going to activate our diaphragm, which is one of
17:37
Speaker 1: our core stabilizers. When we talk about the trunk or
17:41
Speaker 1: the core, so we think to ourselves, okay, so just
17:43
Speaker 1: breathing properly in these given moments where I'm walking around,
17:47
Speaker 1: I'm sat on the couch, I'm going to work, I'm
17:51
Speaker 1: sat in a meeting, Like basic fundamentals of just being
17:54
Speaker 1: a human. We think about these three pillars. There's the muscles,
17:59
Speaker 1: the biomechanic that's really important that help stabilize our core.
18:04
Speaker 1: If I breathe deeply, I'm going to be out of
18:06
Speaker 1: back and neck pain.
18:07
Speaker 4: Big tech. Then we've got the biochemistry.
18:10
Speaker 1: We're thinking about oxygen and nitric oxide and CO two,
18:16
Speaker 1: Like these different gases basically deliver more oxygen towards ourselves.
18:21
Speaker 1: And then finally this mind body connection where we're thinking,
18:25
Speaker 1: how I think influences how I breathe, and how I
18:27
Speaker 1: breathe influences how I think. And if you think or
18:31
Speaker 1: you've become a bit more aware of you're breathing. Anytime
18:33
Speaker 1: you're stressed mentally or physically, the breathing tends to be
18:38
Speaker 1: a bit more faster mouth, bit noisier, bit more shallow.
18:44
Speaker 1: That hits the button on for stress sympathetic trigger in
18:48
Speaker 1: that nervous system, and we get locked into that that's
18:52
Speaker 1: not a good way to want to be able to
18:54
Speaker 1: think expansively, Like your mind becomes very single track focused,
18:59
Speaker 1: lessen into the south. You're not using your diaphragm. So
19:03
Speaker 1: it's this counter so to speak. So when we talk
19:05
Speaker 1: about the benefits, it's multi dimensional, but in the basic
19:10
Speaker 1: premises of like what actually does it mean? More oxygen
19:14
Speaker 1: big tick, and better stabilization of your core big tick,
19:20
Speaker 1: and then better control of your mind like big tick.
19:24
Speaker 3: I love this phrase, big tick. Clearly you're not from here.
19:30
Speaker 4: No, No, it's a big emoji right with the big
19:33
Speaker 4: green box in the tick.
19:34
Speaker 3: It's a check mark.
19:36
Speaker 4: Oh there you go.
19:39
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So this has really helped for foundational So
19:42
Speaker 2: now when we talk about really getting to this place
19:46
Speaker 2: where we are optimally breathing, let's say for performance first
19:51
Speaker 2: and foremost.
19:52
Speaker 3: What do we want to keep in mind?
19:54
Speaker 1: So if we're breathing for performance, we've got what we
19:59
Speaker 1: can do to try for it, or we can do
20:01
Speaker 1: what we're going to do during the activity. So let's
20:04
Speaker 1: sort of think about what we're doing during activity. So
20:08
Speaker 1: you may be working out, and if the intensity is
20:11
Speaker 1: not so high, then you should be able to stay
20:14
Speaker 1: with the nose. So basically, breathe in through the nose,
20:17
Speaker 1: breathe out through the nose, take a natural pause. The
20:21
Speaker 1: tongue position should be resting gently in the roof of
20:23
Speaker 1: the mouth, and you should be breathing towards the back
20:26
Speaker 1: of the throat, and you should be able to breathe
20:29
Speaker 1: in that manner during this low intensity. If you can't,
20:34
Speaker 1: your body will self limit that you'll have to slow down.
20:36
Speaker 1: So take a run, for example, it's a recovery day
20:39
Speaker 1: and you're trying to do a recovery run. If you
20:41
Speaker 1: apply that breathing technique, I'll guarantee that you're being aerobic
20:45
Speaker 1: and you're doing a recovery run if you follow your breathing,
20:49
Speaker 1: So that is like an in session technique for breathing.
20:54
Speaker 1: Obviously that starts to change as the intensity ramps up.
20:58
Speaker 1: Once you hit a certain intensity, and when cobon duck
21:03
Speaker 1: side starts to build up in the blood, you want
21:04
Speaker 1: to going to get rid of cob duck side. The
21:07
Speaker 1: best way to get rid of it is to breathe
21:09
Speaker 1: out through the mouth it's going and that's why people
21:11
Speaker 1: go because they're trying to get rid of the co
21:14
Speaker 1: two in order to basically feel better because they've like
21:18
Speaker 1: hit their ceiling. If that happens where we might be
21:22
Speaker 1: going into a sprint or climbing a hill on a bike.
21:26
Speaker 1: The key fundamental is that the breath stays deep. Like
21:30
Speaker 1: the worst thing we can do is go a shallow,
21:32
Speaker 1: panting breath because if you think about gravity and you
21:35
Speaker 1: think about your lungs, the blood, the rich oxygenated blood,
21:39
Speaker 1: is going to sit at the bottom of your lungs.
21:42
Speaker 1: So if you breathe deeply, at least you're circulating that.
21:46
Speaker 1: So the effort comes you might go, Okay, I'm going
21:48
Speaker 1: to be in through the nose and out through the mouth,
21:51
Speaker 1: in through the nose, and out through the mouth, because
21:52
Speaker 1: the nose also serves a huge purpose in terms of
21:56
Speaker 1: humidifying the air and filtering out back tim pathgens. There's
22:01
Speaker 1: mucus in the nose, there's tiny hairs in the nose.
22:04
Speaker 1: So as a runner, you'll know on a cold day
22:06
Speaker 1: you go out and run, if you start breathing in
22:09
Speaker 1: and out through your mouth, you feel the cold abb
22:12
Speaker 1: basically hit in the back of your throat. That causes inflammation,
22:15
Speaker 1: that's going to cause you a problem. So the nose
22:17
Speaker 1: also serves another purpose of like being in natural filter.
22:21
Speaker 1: So as much as you can in through the nose,
22:24
Speaker 1: out through the mouth, when you start to recover, you
22:27
Speaker 1: go back to nose nose, nose, nose, So you kind
22:31
Speaker 1: of like think about working through these stages like up
22:34
Speaker 1: and down, Like how I need to breathe during a
22:37
Speaker 1: certain intensity, So low intensity solely on the nose, always deep.
22:43
Speaker 1: Higher intensity maybe in with the nose, out through the mouth,
22:46
Speaker 1: but deep is the key.
22:52
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Speaker 2: free shipping. For someone that feels like they are just
24:52
Speaker 2: incapable of getting that deep breath when they've taxed the
24:55
Speaker 2: body in such a way, should they be concerned.
25:00
Speaker 1: Because a lot of what we call air hunger, so
25:03
Speaker 1: you don't feel that you can get enough air in,
25:05
Speaker 1: is to do with combondock side. If you think about
25:09
Speaker 1: the ceiling of a house, and all of us have
25:13
Speaker 1: a combon dioxide level that has a different height of
25:16
Speaker 1: the ceiling. If your ceiling is very low, so you've
25:19
Speaker 1: got a very low tolerance or high sensitivity to combduck side.
25:23
Speaker 1: As soon as you hit that ceiling, you want to
25:26
Speaker 1: take air in so people who have a low sensitivity,
25:30
Speaker 1: women enjoin a certain phase of the cycle will have
25:33
Speaker 1: this high sensitivity. So you want to breathe. So if
25:36
Speaker 1: you think about it, doing this out with the mouth,
25:41
Speaker 1: make sure don't hit my ceiling. But it's not delivering
25:45
Speaker 1: oxygen as efficiently as it could do because you need
25:48
Speaker 1: commondock side. So people who struggle like I can't get
25:52
Speaker 1: enough air in. If you think about your nose, there's
25:56
Speaker 1: two small holes versus the mouth, which is one big hole.
26:00
Speaker 1: M So it's much easier to pull air in through
26:03
Speaker 1: one big hole than too small. So you creating their
26:05
Speaker 1: hunger just by breathing with your nose. So this is
26:08
Speaker 1: where it bleeds into training, like how can I actually
26:12
Speaker 1: raise my ceiling? How can I get more used to
26:15
Speaker 1: breathing in through the nose so that I don't feel
26:18
Speaker 1: like I hit an air hunger and I feel like
26:20
Speaker 1: I'm gasping for breath.
26:23
Speaker 3: Got it? Got it?
26:24
Speaker 2: So you're saying that through this training you would be
26:27
Speaker 2: able to quote unquote increase your ceiling.
26:31
Speaker 4: Correct.
26:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a big, big objective of anyone who
26:37
Speaker 1: works with breath work is understanding where that ceiling is.
26:41
Speaker 4: Is it normal?
26:42
Speaker 1: Below normal and training it to have a higher threshold
26:46
Speaker 1: or higher capacity that it takes you longer basically to
26:49
Speaker 1: hit because as soon as you hit the ceiling, you
26:52
Speaker 1: go in. So we want to delay that ceiling. And
26:56
Speaker 1: it could be the pace at which you run or
26:58
Speaker 1: the amount of what's which you put you join cycling. Basically,
27:01
Speaker 1: we're trying to delay that ceiling.
27:04
Speaker 2: And for anyone whoever goes to a yoga class and
27:07
Speaker 2: the teacher asks you to start the class with an
27:09
Speaker 2: ome and you're like, how are they sitting there still
27:12
Speaker 2: owning and I'm absolutely dead, it is because they have
27:16
Speaker 2: done the breath work to get to a place where
27:18
Speaker 2: they have trained their ceiling in such a way that
27:21
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel as strenuous for them.
27:23
Speaker 4: Correct.
27:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just a stressor, Like we spoke about
27:27
Speaker 1: a stressor at the start. As soon as you start
27:30
Speaker 1: to build up CO two because the intensity increases or
27:33
Speaker 1: you're breathing in a certain way. As soon as you
27:36
Speaker 1: hit that ceiling, you need to change your breathing pattern.
27:39
Speaker 1: And people who train breath work, they've just got a
27:41
Speaker 1: very high ceiling and they stay in control.
27:45
Speaker 3: Stay in control.
27:46
Speaker 2: Okay, So we've talked a little bit about best practices
27:49
Speaker 2: for performance. I do want to switch gears and talk
27:52
Speaker 2: a little bit about best practices for managing anxiety. Something
27:57
Speaker 2: that when many people hear the word breath works, talk
28:00
Speaker 2: about breathing, this is kind of where their mind first goes.
28:03
Speaker 2: So for someone that is navigating anxiety, whether it is
28:07
Speaker 2: sporadic throughout their day, or maybe they consider themselves a
28:10
Speaker 2: generally anxious person, where do we even begin when it
28:13
Speaker 2: comes to breath work?
28:16
Speaker 1: So restoring a functional breathing pattern would be key. So
28:21
Speaker 1: I would say to anyone, Okay, let's think about how
28:24
Speaker 1: you breathe, and it's in through the nose, out through
28:27
Speaker 1: the nose with a natural pause. Tongue is in the
28:31
Speaker 1: roof of the mouth, and you breathe towards the back
28:33
Speaker 1: of your throat and down towards your back.
28:35
Speaker 4: Do that as much as you can.
28:37
Speaker 1: Anytime you think about your breathing, just do that and
28:40
Speaker 1: it might be one breath, three breaths, seven breaths, it
28:42
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Start to re educate your breathing pattern. So
28:46
Speaker 1: that would be the first thing I would suggest. Then
28:49
Speaker 1: we can start to play around with more formal exercises
28:53
Speaker 1: in order to train so we'll give you on there
28:56
Speaker 1: and then in order to have a tool in the
28:58
Speaker 1: toolbox if things go sideway. So let's start and think
29:02
Speaker 1: about training and increasing the roof and making us more parasympathetic.
29:08
Speaker 1: So the research suggests that if we slow down our
29:12
Speaker 1: breathing rate to around six breaths per minute, we're going
29:15
Speaker 1: to trigger a more parasympathetic response. So we have a
29:18
Speaker 1: nervous system that's working sympathetic stress, parasympathetic rest and digest.
29:24
Speaker 1: We want to try and trigger ourselves into that more
29:27
Speaker 1: parasympathetic branch, so we need to slow down our breathing rate.
29:31
Speaker 1: A really easy way to do that is to condition
29:35
Speaker 1: how long we inhale for and how long we exhale for.
29:38
Speaker 4: So very simply, we'll do a couple of breasts together.
29:40
Speaker 1: I'm going to have you breathe in for four three
29:44
Speaker 1: two one out through the nose four three two one,
29:51
Speaker 1: take a pause, go in four three two one out
29:58
Speaker 1: for three two one natural pause, and you'll do that
30:04
Speaker 1: for maybe six breaths, and we've taken you from a
30:07
Speaker 1: normal breathing rate can be between twelve and eighteen. I
30:10
Speaker 1: usually see it on the higher end. If you're anxious
30:13
Speaker 1: and stressed, it's going to probably be more like twenty
30:15
Speaker 1: breaths per minute. But that formal practice of taking your
30:20
Speaker 1: breathing rate down to six breath per minute is going
30:23
Speaker 1: to definitely help build some resiliency. And we're talking three
30:27
Speaker 1: to five minutes per day, like that's all you need today.
30:30
Speaker 1: So that is a huge, huge tool in the toolbox
30:33
Speaker 1: to build resiliency. Calm the mind, great to do before bad,
30:38
Speaker 1: and down regulate your body.
30:39
Speaker 4: So that would be one.
30:42
Speaker 2: And this is very reminiscent of a lot of like
30:44
Speaker 2: the traditional breath work that I have been doing, which is,
30:48
Speaker 2: let's say, for example, a box style breath, right. The
30:51
Speaker 2: only difference would be the holding. Can we talk a
30:55
Speaker 2: little bit about the purpose of holding the breath in
30:57
Speaker 2: between the inhales and the exhales.
31:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So we spoke about inhale exhale natural pause,
31:06
Speaker 1: and a normal breathing pattern has a natural pause, and
31:09
Speaker 1: many people don't have that. It's just in out, in out,
31:12
Speaker 1: in out. So when we start to add a pause
31:15
Speaker 1: or a hold, it can start to reset the brain
31:18
Speaker 1: and train us to have that natural rhythm of in
31:21
Speaker 1: out pause. What happens in terms of the physiology is
31:25
Speaker 1: when we hold the breath, especially on an exhale, CO
31:30
Speaker 1: two will start to build up, so we're training the
31:33
Speaker 1: ceiling a little bit. Also, when we hold, nitric oxide
31:38
Speaker 1: pulls in our nasal cavity parinasal nitrocoxide, which is a vasodilator.
31:43
Speaker 1: So if you're into performance, so you're into fitnesse, you
31:47
Speaker 1: might think like, oh, like I know, I forgetting the sauna,
31:50
Speaker 1: it dilates my blood vessels, or if I do beetroot juice,
31:53
Speaker 1: it dilates my blood vessels.
31:55
Speaker 4: Breathing nasally dilates.
31:57
Speaker 1: But holding the breath on the exhale because you build
31:59
Speaker 1: up the hytocoxide and then you breathe it back in again.
32:03
Speaker 1: So hold in terms of like a box breathing like
32:07
Speaker 1: four seconds or anything less. It is kind of trying
32:10
Speaker 1: to retrain strong breath holds. So some people will do
32:14
Speaker 1: very very strong breatholds or severe breath holds, and we're
32:17
Speaker 1: talking more like thirty seconds or more. This is more
32:20
Speaker 1: of a performance outcome for somebody. So I breathe in,
32:25
Speaker 1: breathe out through the nose, and I hold my breath.
32:27
Speaker 1: I'm going to hold it for at least thirty seconds.
32:30
Speaker 1: And I'll always say, start seated. What happens when you
32:34
Speaker 1: hold your breath for a long time, CEO two increases
32:39
Speaker 1: and then a nerve, a frenic nerve, will start to
32:41
Speaker 1: signal and say to your diaphragm, you need to start
32:45
Speaker 1: breathing here, like I need you to start doing your job.
32:48
Speaker 1: So we start to get this like twitching a little
32:50
Speaker 1: bit of the diaphragm. Maybe are twitching up in the
32:53
Speaker 1: neck because the diaphragm is starting to almost like isometrically strengthened.
32:57
Speaker 1: So we're strengthening a diaphragm by doing a breath hold.
33:01
Speaker 1: A big, big outcome of strong breatholds is the spleen
33:06
Speaker 1: will contract. And you can think about your spleen as
33:08
Speaker 1: your blood bank. It's where all the red blood cells
33:11
Speaker 1: are sort of kept, so to speak, and if it contracts,
33:15
Speaker 1: all these red blood cells are released into your system.
33:18
Speaker 1: So it's an amazing performance benefit for anyone to have
33:20
Speaker 1: more red blood cells. That's an acute effect of holding
33:24
Speaker 1: your breath for sort of thirty seconds or beyond.
33:27
Speaker 2: There are so many strategic things that individuals will do.
33:30
Speaker 2: You know, for instance, you provided the example of drinking
33:33
Speaker 2: beet juice to help better their performance when you actually
33:37
Speaker 2: have tools within you to do it on your own exactly.
33:40
Speaker 1: And I really truly believe that if you master these
33:46
Speaker 1: processes with your body or your mind, it's much more
33:49
Speaker 1: effective than relying on a supplement for example.
33:54
Speaker 3: Definitely.
33:55
Speaker 2: And you did talk a little bit in your different
33:57
Speaker 2: explanations of the different breathing patterns about nasal versus mouth breathing.
34:02
Speaker 2: I know a hot topic is mouth taping when it
34:06
Speaker 2: comes to breathing for optimal sleep. Can you talk a
34:08
Speaker 2: little bit about why that is something that is so
34:11
Speaker 2: buzzy right now and if it's actually worth our time.
34:15
Speaker 4: Yeah.
34:15
Speaker 1: So when we look at mouth taping for sleep, all
34:18
Speaker 1: we're trying to do is guarantee that we use our
34:21
Speaker 1: nose to breathe. That's basically what we're trying to do here.
34:25
Speaker 1: There's definitely research out there to suggest that when we
34:28
Speaker 1: hit a certain age forty or above, we have a
34:31
Speaker 1: much better chance of using our mouth to breathe for sleep.
34:35
Speaker 1: Like it's just something that happens as we age. I
34:38
Speaker 1: think it's seven times more likely that we'll spend fifty
34:40
Speaker 1: percent of the night using our mouth to breathe.
34:43
Speaker 3: Wow.
34:43
Speaker 1: We don't want to use our mouth to breathe. It
34:45
Speaker 1: triggers a sympathetic response. You're breathing in bacteria, in our allergens,
34:50
Speaker 1: You're going to breathe shallow, You're going to breathe in
34:53
Speaker 1: a manner that is faster, and basically you're not getting oxygen.
34:56
Speaker 1: So we don't want to use our mouth Taping guarantees
35:00
Speaker 1: that we use our nose. We know if we ask
35:02
Speaker 1: someone to breathe of the nose, they're going to breathe
35:04
Speaker 1: slower and deeper, and we know the outcomes.
35:07
Speaker 4: I mouth tape.
35:09
Speaker 1: It's something I do every night when I coach or
35:12
Speaker 1: work with people around breath work, I do get them
35:14
Speaker 1: to mouth tape. But I'm never like day one, right,
35:17
Speaker 1: let's chuck the mouth tape on, because it's freaky for
35:20
Speaker 1: people like it can be overwhelming. Some people might have
35:25
Speaker 1: a stigma around doing that, so you have to sort
35:27
Speaker 1: of onboard somebody if you're wanting to try it. I
35:31
Speaker 1: would suggest that formal practice that we spoke about in
35:34
Speaker 1: the evening of four seconds in four seconds out pause,
35:37
Speaker 1: you put some mouth tape on and you do the
35:39
Speaker 1: formal practice if you're comfortable with it, If you breathe
35:43
Speaker 1: okay with it, then I'll suggest, yeah, try it for sleep.
35:48
Speaker 1: But it's yeah, we're seeing lots of companies, we're seeing
35:51
Speaker 1: lots of things on social around mouth taping for sleep. Yes,
35:55
Speaker 1: it's super important. But fundamentally, how breathe in the day
36:01
Speaker 1: is going to influence how you breathe at night. So
36:03
Speaker 1: getting back to like consciously thinking I've got to fix
36:07
Speaker 1: my breathing consciously is what's really going to support how
36:10
Speaker 1: you breathe at night.
36:11
Speaker 2: Are there any risks or things that someone should be
36:15
Speaker 2: concerned about if they've never mouth taped before.
36:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, never mouth taped children. That would be a huge no. No,
36:21
Speaker 1: don't mouth tape if you're under the influence of any
36:24
Speaker 1: sort of alcohol or drugs. And really it would be
36:30
Speaker 1: a case of if you're healthy, if you have a
36:35
Speaker 1: certain degree of control of your breath work. There's a
36:37
Speaker 1: test we do call a breathhole test or a bolt
36:40
Speaker 1: test where for me, I like to see people with
36:44
Speaker 1: a higher score like around twenty twenty five seconds before
36:46
Speaker 1: I get them to tape. So there are sort of
36:49
Speaker 1: prerequisites to saying yes, go mouth tape, and it's not
36:53
Speaker 1: something to jump into lightly. For sure, because obviously you're
37:00
Speaker 1: talking about breathing, and we spoke at the top of
37:03
Speaker 1: the conversation fundamentally you're going to have to breathe to
37:07
Speaker 1: be alive. So let's take some steps in place that's
37:10
Speaker 1: safe and also considers that individual where they're at in
37:15
Speaker 1: terms of their breathing.
37:17
Speaker 2: The last thing I really want to make sure that
37:19
Speaker 2: we touch on here is we did talk about what
37:21
Speaker 2: to do if you feel like you're in a stressful situation.
37:23
Speaker 2: I know that two factors that can really impact that
37:27
Speaker 2: are both maybe altitude and then also again that temperature.
37:31
Speaker 2: So is there anything specific that we should be mindful
37:33
Speaker 2: when it comes to the breath I guess we can
37:36
Speaker 2: start at altitude and then talk about heat exposure.
37:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you think about altitude or heat exposure
37:44
Speaker 1: the doing things to your physiology that's changing. So, for example,
37:48
Speaker 1: you go into a sauna or heat exposure, it's a
37:52
Speaker 1: stressor and it's going to make you breathe faster, more shallow,
37:57
Speaker 1: and it actually increases nitric oxide. So it's almost doing
38:01
Speaker 1: what we would probably do with some type of breath work.
38:04
Speaker 1: So in order to control our breath a little bit,
38:08
Speaker 1: we can think about elongation of an exhale. And this
38:12
Speaker 1: is in any stressful situation really, whether it's altitude, whether
38:16
Speaker 1: it's in a sauna, or whether it's just a stressful
38:19
Speaker 1: event of a business meeting or a loved one like
38:22
Speaker 1: you can apply this. So what would go for is
38:25
Speaker 1: just in through the nose and then a slow exhale.
38:30
Speaker 1: Most people are more comfortable with the slow exhale to
38:33
Speaker 1: be out through the mouth, So just be in, slow exhale.
38:38
Speaker 1: I try and get people to go in through the nose,
38:41
Speaker 1: out through the nose once they're ready, So it's like
38:44
Speaker 1: in through the nose, slow exhale, out through the mouth.
38:47
Speaker 1: You maybe do that two or three times or when
38:49
Speaker 1: you are ready, and then you get back to the nose.
38:52
Speaker 1: And we see in the research you take a long exhale,
38:56
Speaker 1: it's going to help with a parasympathetic sympathetic balance. So
38:59
Speaker 1: it's going to make us more or relax and just
39:01
Speaker 1: gain that control when it's more of like altitude. For example,
39:06
Speaker 1: we know that our oxygen decreases in our blood like
39:11
Speaker 1: we see it like a decrease in spo too, so
39:15
Speaker 1: when we do a breath hold on the exhal we
39:17
Speaker 1: also see a decrease in spots, so breath holding is
39:20
Speaker 1: not a great idea to do when we're at altitude.
39:24
Speaker 1: The certain techniques, so you see certain people and they'll
39:27
Speaker 1: be doing certain breathing activities, running up mountains.
39:32
Speaker 4: In the shorts, et cetera, et cetera.
39:34
Speaker 1: The research I've read in terms of helping increase the
39:38
Speaker 1: amount of oxygen in the blood. So we're having a drop,
39:40
Speaker 1: we're going up is to go nasal and go slow.
39:44
Speaker 1: It's not to hyperventilate. It's literally to think like I'm
39:47
Speaker 1: heading up the hill, I'm in altitude. My breath's getting short,
39:53
Speaker 1: my breast's getting faster, is going with the mouth. I
39:55
Speaker 1: would say stop, gain control in, in, out, and get
40:02
Speaker 1: back to the nose and just try and slow it
40:04
Speaker 1: down as much as you can, because slowing it down
40:07
Speaker 1: increasing CO two, we know, is going to help deliver
40:10
Speaker 1: more oxygen. So that would be my technique for altitude.
40:15
Speaker 2: You're also talking about the benefits here of training or
40:18
Speaker 2: just living an altitude right, you're gaining some of the
40:21
Speaker 2: perks that we've been talking about with doing breath work
40:24
Speaker 2: simply by where you are in the scheme of things,
40:28
Speaker 2: whether you're in the mountains or wherever you may be.
40:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, severe breath holds are basically a simulation of altitude
40:36
Speaker 1: breathe out.
40:36
Speaker 4: Hold your breath.
40:37
Speaker 1: If you've got the pulse oximita on your finger that
40:39
Speaker 1: calculates your heart rate and the oxygen in your arterial blood,
40:44
Speaker 1: you'll see that number go down. So it's no different
40:46
Speaker 1: to going upper mountain and you can become severely what
40:49
Speaker 1: we would call hypoxic by holding your breath. So you
40:53
Speaker 1: can train for the event one hundred percent, but then
40:56
Speaker 1: think about how you breathe during the event if you're
40:58
Speaker 1: going to be at altitude.
41:00
Speaker 3: Smart, smart, awesome.
41:01
Speaker 2: There's so many amazing takeaways here, so much to be
41:04
Speaker 2: mindful of when it comes to how we breathe and
41:07
Speaker 2: breathing for optimization in different areas of our life.
41:11
Speaker 3: Mike, what's exciting you right now? What are you working on?
41:14
Speaker 1: So what's excited me right now? In a company that's
41:19
Speaker 1: due to launch in about four weeks, it's a health,
41:23
Speaker 1: wellness and fitness company that is in the tech world.
41:29
Speaker 1: It basically lives to all the things that we spoke
41:32
Speaker 1: about in terms of this holistic response. So using DNA
41:37
Speaker 1: to build the roadmap of how you respond to stress,
41:42
Speaker 1: how you respond to exercise, how you respond to nutrition
41:47
Speaker 1: builds this roadmap, and then from there we can use biometrics,
41:50
Speaker 1: so your own personal data to guide that journey. Think
41:54
Speaker 1: about that as the GPS. So we're making recommendations for
41:58
Speaker 1: strength work and for cardio work, for breath work, for meditation,
42:03
Speaker 1: for yoga, all based on your data. So I'm working
42:08
Speaker 1: with this company at the moment, I can't say too
42:10
Speaker 1: much about the name. We're due to release very very soon.
42:13
Speaker 1: We're actually signing up beta testers at the moment. So
42:17
Speaker 1: this is something where someone's like, Yeah, this sounds really
42:19
Speaker 1: really neat that we can use data and technology to
42:23
Speaker 1: help drive a customized health, wellness and fitness program that's
42:26
Speaker 1: a daily recommendation. And then I would say, please reach
42:29
Speaker 1: out if it's peaked anyone's interest, because we're looking for
42:33
Speaker 1: people who want to be early adopters and early testers
42:36
Speaker 1: for us.
42:37
Speaker 2: It sounds like something that I'm sure many of the
42:39
Speaker 2: people listening to this right now, you've peaked their curiosity,
42:43
Speaker 2: to say the least. Now for someone that wants to
42:46
Speaker 2: reach out, if they don't know you yet and they
42:48
Speaker 2: don't follow along with you yet, how do they keep
42:50
Speaker 2: up with you.
42:50
Speaker 3: How do they follow with you and give us the details?
42:53
Speaker 1: Okay, so Instagram would probably be the best place to
42:57
Speaker 1: find me. It's at flow to plus so that's f
43:01
Speaker 1: L two p l U s So that's my Instagram,
43:05
Speaker 1: dm me or reach out there. I do have a
43:08
Speaker 1: website as well, which is www dot flowtoplus dot com
43:14
Speaker 1: and you can find like emails and contact details on
43:17
Speaker 1: there as well. So yeah, I'm interested in people's breathwork journey.
43:21
Speaker 1: If they want to improve their breathing, or they have
43:25
Speaker 1: stories or they have research, I'm always open to speak.
43:28
Speaker 1: And as I said, if people are interested in the
43:31
Speaker 1: future of health, wellness and fitness and want to sort
43:34
Speaker 1: of jump on and being early adopted and please reach
43:36
Speaker 1: out as well.
43:37
Speaker 3: I love this. I love this.
43:38
Speaker 2: I always love having the opportunity to chat with you.
43:41
Speaker 2: Thanks again, Mike. I'm over on Instagram at Emily a
43:44
Speaker 2: Body and also of course at Hurdle Podcast Another Hurdle Conquered.
43:48
Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.