Latest / Too Awkward for a Twosome / Bullying and the Root Cause Nobody Wants to Face

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Bullying and the Root Cause Nobody Wants to Face · Too Awkward for a Twosome

• In-person participant 1: Hey, quick pause. If this episode is hitting you and you're ready for real tools, here's what we built. Clint - Mic: Hey, quick pause. If this episode is hitting you and you're ready for real tools, here's what we built. Head on over to CJElevatedLife.com, pick up the Rebuilt Method for Men or the Rebuilt Method for Women, just $67 each. We also created the Parasite Detox Blueprint at $37. And this is actually the exact protocol we use ourselves. And... Today we're talking about bullying. Something, another one of those words that's been co-opted, I would say, because it just, it can mean so many different things to so many people, and now it's kind of a catch-all to anytime somebody's mean to me, I feel like somebody's mean to me, they're bullying me, which isn't quite accurate, I don't think, but. Johnna - Mic: Today we're Elevated Life: Welcome to Elevated Life Real Wellness and Transformation podcast, where we walk alongside the internally driven individual as they transform their life through wellness, movement, mindset, and personal responsibility. If that's you, you're in the right place. Let's jump in. Hey friends, if you're getting something out of this, connect with us on our social media platforms. We're at CJElevatedLife underscore on Instagram and TikTok and CJElevatedLife on Facebook and X. We're answering DMs, sharing daily content and building community with people ready for real transformation. For now, hit subscribe wherever you're listening, Apple, Spotify, YouTube. We drop two new episodes every week. And if this episode resonates, share it. Johnna - Mic: than another one of those words that's been co-opted, I would say. it can mean so many different things to so many people. Yeah. Anytime somebody's mean to me, I feel like somebody's mean to me, they're bullying me, which isn't quite accurate, I don't think. But that doesn't take away from the fact that the concept of bullying absolutely exists. I think it's been around since humans have been around. So we're going to get into it. We are. And I think that you and I probably have differing. In-person participant 1: $67 each we also created the parasite detox blueprint at $37 and this is actually the exact protocol And while you're there sign up for the newsletter You'll get the weekly action steps and new tools. We've tested ourselves. Let's get back to the episode Clint - Mic: that doesn't take away from the fact that the concept of bullying absolutely exists. I think it's been around since humans have been around. So we're gonna get into it. Elevated Life: That's how we reach more people who are ready for change. You can also find everything at CJElevatedLife.com. All right, let's keep going. Clint - Mic: You'll get the weekly action steps and new tools we've tested ourselves. Let's get back to the episode. Johnna - Mic: opinions on this. So what inspired this podcast, Clint? ⁓ I need to make sure I'm in the middle of the camera. I mean, like up and down. Yeah. Side to side. no, if you're low, that's fine. OK, I'm low. OK. It's the sound. It's the camera. Anyway, Johnna's head gets cut off on all the clips that we make, and I don't want that. Clint - Mic: Yeah. I mean like up and down, not side to side. No, if you're low, that's fine. Okay, I'm low. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, good. Well, Johnna's head gets cut off on all the clips that we make and I don't want that because I want her whole head to be in it. Johnna - Mic: Wholeness. Yeah. OK, let's get back to the task at hand, which is talking about bullying. So what what inspired us to talk about this? I'm asking you. ⁓ you said let's talk about bullying. Yeah. But what inspired it? It's definitely something that, you know, it's something that we see a lot and you hear about a lot there. Clint - Mic: ⁓ you said let's talk about bullying. It's definitely something that, ⁓ you know, it's something that we see a lot and you hear about a lot. There have been situations that have come up recently, I think. I mean, I don't know how much you want to get into details of. Johnna - Mic: been situations that have come up recently. think I mean, I don't know how much you want to get into details. Yeah, I'm gonna get into detail. had a fifth grader kill himself locally. And bullying is an absolute issue in our community, at our schools, at our sports functions. And it's not just kids. It's actually learned behavior. Clint - Mic: learn behavior from children because we have a shit ton of adult bullying in our community. We just do. And so really I just wanted to get to the root cause of how a bully is formed basically and what the problem is, right? So that we can just better see ⁓ what actual bully person Johnna - Mic: from children because we have a shit ton of adult bullying in our community. We just do. And so really, I just wanted to get to the root cause of ⁓ how a bully is formed basically and what the problem is, right? So that we can just better see ⁓ what actual bully person has Clint - Mic: has is dealing with or has dealt with or hasn't dealt with at all, right? And how that manifests through their entire life. that's basically why ⁓ I wanted to do this podcast. All right. Yeah. So let's jump in. Yeah, absolutely. Because this is something that if you know the root cause of anything, Johnna - Mic: is dealing with or has dealt with or hasn't dealt with at all. Right. And how that manifests through their entire life. So that's basically why why I wanted to do this podcast. All right. Yeah. So let's jump in. Let's talk about the root cause, because this is something that if you know the root cause of anything then we can deal with it at its root. the root cause of bullying is insecurity and a fragile identity, whether it's children or adults. And I find this fascinating because most adult bullies come across as, I don't know, maybe confident or Clint - Mic: then we can deal with it at its root. So the root cause of bullying is insecurity and a fragile identity, whether it's children or adults. And I find this fascinating because most adult bullies come across as, I don't know, maybe confident or... Really, you think so? Well, I'm just thinking about adult bullies in our community. And not all of them, of course, but just like ego. So much ego. so I think before we get into this, and because we've got some good information about all the back story and yeah, all that stuff. One thing that I struggle with that's maybe Johnna - Mic: Well, I don't I'm just thinking about adult bullies in our community and not all of them, of course, but just like ego, so much ego. so I think before we get into this and because we've got some good information about all the psychology. One thing that I struggle with that's maybe important to set the tone or ⁓ clarify at the beginning. What's the difference between a bully and an asshole? I don't know. You want to clarify that because I see them as both one in the same. OK, so because that's something that I struggle with and maybe part of our misalignment. Clint - Mic: important to set the tone or clarify at the beginning. What's the difference between a bully and an asshole? You want to clarify that? Because I see them as both one and the same. OK. Because that's something that I struggle with. And maybe part of our misalignment on the concept of bullying versus just somebody being a dick. Well, don't you think that would just circle back? I'm going to circle back to this through the entire podcast. Johnna - Mic: the concept of bullying versus just somebody being a dick. Well, don't you think that would just circle back? I'm going to circle back to this to the entire podcast. Insecurity, fragile identity. Right. Meaning if you're an asshole to people, then you're insecure and you have a fragile identity. If you bully people, then you're insecure and you have a fragile identity. Clint - Mic: insecurity, fragile identity. Right? Sure. If you're an asshole to people, then you're insecure and you have a fragile identity. If you bully people, then you're insecure and you have a fragile identity. mean, I don't maybe they manifest a little bit different. I don't even see the difference between an asshole and a bully. Yeah. And and that was an honest question. Like what is and so I think Johnna - Mic: I mean, I don't maybe they manifest a little bit different. I don't even see the difference between an asshole and a bully. But that was an honest question. Yeah. What is and so I think let's do or I know I'm going to keep that in mind as we go through this and see maybe it's not maybe there isn't any difference and it is more more broad of a concept than I give it credit for. Yeah. I guess. So just something to keep in mind as we go through. Clint - Mic: Let's do, or I know I'm gonna keep that in mind as we go through this and see maybe it's not. Maybe there isn't any difference and it is more broad of a concept than I give it credit for, I guess. So just something to keep in mind as we go through. Okay, so we've already like said it but bullies navigate from a deep internal insecurity So when someone feels small and powerless Johnna - Mic: Okay, so we've already like said it, but bullies navigate from a deep internal insecurity. So when someone feels small and powerless or ashamed internally, they attempt to reign power by dominating others. So that is an adult bully and that is a child bully. So Clint - Mic: ashamed internally, they attempt to reign power by dominating others. So that is an adult bully and that is a child bully. So instead of dealing with feelings like inadequacy, fear, rejection, or shame, they externalize it by putting someone else down. Johnna - Mic: Instead of dealing with feelings like inadequacy, fear, rejection or shame, they externalize it by putting someone else down or an adult life, gossiping, telling stories about other people. So temporary power replaces internal stability, right? So dominance of others. Clint - Mic: or in adult life, gossiping and telling stories about other people. So temporary power replaces internal stability. So dominance of others. This definitely takes me back not that long ago to our podcast about projection. A lot of this is, it lives in the same world. It all does. And you know, at the end, when we say, oh, it turns out... Johnna - Mic: Yeah. lot of this is it lives in the same world. It all it all does. And, you know, at the end, when we say, turns out you got to look within. It's like the theme of every podcast. But I think it's important for people who are navigating bullying in adult life or child life to realize what this comes from. OK, so. Clint - Mic: Spoiler alert. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Johnna - Mic: That's what it is. And then also how to identify it in your child or in your partner if they're getting bullied and they don't have the words to, you know, explain that. Yeah. And I would just say before we move on, the projection is is much more broad. Right. Boing is like one narrow avenue. Yeah. So I mean, they're going to go back and listen to that podcast. Clint - Mic: what it is. And then also how to identify it in your child. They're getting bullied and they don't have the words to, you know, explain that. Yeah. And I would just say before we move on, the ⁓ projection is much more broad than bullying. Bullying is like one narrow avenue of it. it's, I mean, there can be a, go back and listen to that podcast if you're curious about projection, because it's fantastic. But yeah, let's talk about where it comes from. Learn behavior. Children. Johnna - Mic: Yeah. Let's talk about where, where it comes from. Learned behavior, children, model adults. And so, you know, currently in our school system, in our little town, you know, the parents want to go to the school board to talk about bullying and all of the things. But at the end of the day, ⁓ Clint - Mic: And so, you know, currently in our school system, in our little town, you know, the parents want to go to the school board to talk about bullying and all of the things. But at the end of the day, ⁓ Johnna - Mic: I don't believe it's the school's responsibility to micromanage and we'll get more into that later. I'm just going to drop that here because I know some people just like yelled at their radio, but ⁓ anyway, so if they grow up seeing conflict at home, humiliation as a form of discipline, emotional neglect, I would say that that's probably the biggest core thing or aggression rewarded. Clint - Mic: I don't believe it's the school's responsibility to micromanage and we'll get more into that later. I'm just going to drop that here because I know some people just like yelled at their radio. ⁓ anyway, so if they grow up seeing conflict at home, humiliation as a form of discipline, emotional neglect, I would say that that's probably the biggest core thing ⁓ or aggression rewarded. Johnna - Mic: They learn that power actually equals control over other people. Right. emotional neglect one is I think I mean you already kind of said this but it's the one that is probably I hate to rank them but is if you're looking at the one that has the biggest impact that's the hardest to really clearly identify. Yeah. You can see easily if you know I go home and my parents yell at each Clint - Mic: The emotional neglect one is I think I mean you already kind of said this but it's the one that is Probably I hate to rank them. But is if you're looking at the one that has the biggest impact that's the hardest to really clearly identify. Because you can see easily if, you know, I go home and my parents yell at each other all the time. Like that's super, or there's even more physical stuff like that. know, those things, or. Johnna - Mic: or there's even more physical stuff like that. Those things, or every time we go to the store, my mom or my dad, whoever, my authority figure is yelling at the clerks or super rude to people. Those things are very obvious in UNC and how that manifests. The emotional neglect, that one, that one I think people don't realize, especially adults, Clint - Mic: Every time we go to the store, you know, my mom or my dad, whoever my authority figure is yelling at the clerks or, you know, super rude to people. Those things are very obvious and you can see and how that manifests. The emotional neglect, like that one, that one I think people don't realize, especially adults, don't realize what that looks like with kids. Johnna - Mic: don't realize what that looks like with kids. Totally. And I think that when we talk about all of the things on our podcast, most issues that is the root cause is emotional neglect. And it's just not so. So bullying from kids mirrors what they see in the dynamics at home. Right. So Clint - Mic: think that when we talk about all of the things on our podcast, most issues, that is the root cause, is emotional neglect. So bullying from kids mirrors what they see in the dynamics at home. So if you have a child that bullies, Johnna - Mic: If you have a child that bullies, you need to look within and manage your home differently, right? Go back and listen to all of our podcasts. You can fix these things. So also social hierarchy or status seeking. So humans evolved in tribal environments where status affected survival. So children learn that dominating others raises their position. Clint - Mic: you need to look within and manage your home differently. Right? Go back and listen to all of our podcasts. You can fix these things. also social hierarchy or status seeking. So humans evolved in tribal environments where status affected survival. So children learn that dominating others raises their position in the group. Johnna - Mic: in the group, right? So this can look like making others laugh at someone else, controlling social circles, excluding people, spreading rumors. So it becomes like a social currency. And I know that we're talking about this in children. But as we go through this, I just am like, Clint - Mic: Right? So this can look like making others laugh at someone else, controlling social circles, excluding people, spreading rumors. So it becomes like a social currency. And I know that we're talking about this in children, but as we go through this, I just am like, Johnna - Mic: There's so many adults in the world. I'm going to make it broad because I really just want to be like, we have a bully issue in our freaking town. We do. And that's why we have a bully issue in the school. I'm meaning in our town with adults. This is why we have an issue at the school. It's not the school. Okay. It's not. Clint - Mic: There's so many adults in the world. I'm going to make it broad. Wow. I really just want to be like, we have a bully issue in our freaking town. We do. And that's why we have a bully issue in the school. Meaning in our town with adults. This is why we have an issue at the school. It's not the school. Okay. It's not. It's the adults, then it trickles down to the children. And I know this is a tough pill to swallow right now, because everyone wants to point fingers. And remember, when you're pointing fingers, you've got fingers pointing down. Anyways, go ahead. The social hierarchy thing gets a little tricky for me, because Johnna - Mic: it's the adults, then it trickles down to the children. And I know this is a tough pill to swallow right now, because everyone wants to point fingers and, and remember when you're pointing fingers, you've got fingers pointed back at yourself. anyways, go ahead. The social hierarchy thing gets a little Clint - Mic: You know, you said some children learn that dominating others raises their position in the group. That in some ways is a good thing. The concept of the elite person in whatever group, they tend to rise to the top. And there's certainly certain circumstances where that's needed. Johnna - Mic: Mm hmm. That in some ways is a good thing. Sure. The concept of the the elite person in in whatever group they tend to rise to the top. And there's certainly certain circumstances where that's needed. It's beneficial. It's it's valuable and and. Clint - Mic: It's beneficial, it's valuable, and so the nuance comes in when a kid or an adult, I think a lot of this stuff, like you said, is focused at kids, but. Johnna - Mic: So, you the nuance comes in when a kid or an adult, I think, you know, a lot of this stuff, like you said, is focused at kids, but very similar or the same in adults, when they see a person who deserves to rise to the top, because like it or not, Clint - Mic: very similar or the same in adults, when they see a person who deserves to rise to the top, because like it or not, there is a social hierarchy. There are social structures. There has to be. We are not all even on everything. And somebody that's elevated in one group, meaning maybe they're the leader, they're making more of the decisions, they're the voice that other people kind of connect with to move through that group. Johnna - Mic: there is a social hierarchy. There are social structures. There has to be. We are not all even on everything. And somebody that's elevated in one group, meaning maybe they're the leader, they're making more of the decisions, they're the voice that other people kind of connect with to move through that group, they could very easily, and if they've done some inner work and they recognize it, not be that in another group. Clint - Mic: they could very easily and if they if they've done some inner work and they recognize it not be that in another group. And so that's the positive value in the social hierarchy. Where people that have the things that you were talking about earlier, they just see, oh, there's a dominant person. I wanna be a dominant person. How do I do that? Oh, now I can make people laugh at somebody else. Now I think I'm dominant. Now I can criticize other people, gossip. And now all of a sudden I... Johnna - Mic: And so that's the positive value in the social hierarchy. Sure. Where people that have the things that you were talking about earlier, they just see, ⁓ there's a dominant person. I want to be a dominant person. How do I do that? ⁓ now I can make people laugh at somebody else. Now I think I'm dominant. Now I can criticize other people, gossip. And now all of a sudden, internally get this feeling like I'm elevating the social hierarchy, when in reality, I'm not. Because I'm not providing benefit to the group. I'm just getting attention. Yeah, outside validation. Yeah. OK, so moving on. Clint - Mic: internally get this feeling like I'm elevating in the social hierarchy when in reality I'm not because I'm not providing benefit to the group. I'm just getting attention essentially. right yeah. Okay so moving on. Johnna - Mic: ⁓ Emotional dysregulation. is another, you know, obviously thing, something ⁓ that happens with bullying. ⁓ So children and adults, like it's funny because as I'm going through this and we're really highlighting it with children because I want parents to have tools, but I'm just like, dude, this is like. Clint - Mic: Yes Absolutely Johnna - Mic: all the adult bullies in this town. So some people just simply lack the skills to regulate emotionally, right? Anger, frustration, jealousy, embarrassment, all of those things. And in fact, a lot of those people I would say in their adult life are the ones that think that what we do is woo, or they pass it off. Oh my gosh, Clint and John, they're always talking about healing and doing all Clint - Mic: right? Anger, frustration, jealousy, embarrassment, all of those things. And in fact, a lot of those people I would say in their adult life are the ones that think that what we do is woo. Yeah. they pass it off. Yep. ⁓ my gosh, Clinton. Yeah ⁓ Johnna - Mic: So right, like, it's just nothing. That's so stupid. Or therapy is for the weak. Like this is the kind. Yeah, this is the kind of instead of processing feelings, they act them out externally. Right. It's that's the projection part of this puzzle. So a large percentage of bullies have experienced ⁓ abuse, humiliation, neglect ⁓ or chronic criticism. Clint - Mic: Which is why they are insecure and have a fragile identity I want to highlight this again talking to parents Johnna - Mic: which is why they are insecure and have a fragile identity. Right. So that's where all of that comes from. especially I mean for anybody who's Clint - Mic: Especially, I mean, for anybody who's who's new, John and I have seven kids between the two of us and they are now officially all well, as of a little while ago, they're all adults. So, you know, we've been through the gamut, ⁓ pretty much every different scenario you can possibly think of. So when we're talking about to parents, especially of younger kids where you're still, you know, having that impact in that part of their lives, the neglect. Johnna - Mic: and I have seven kids between the two of us and they are now officially all well as of a little while ago they're all adults yeah so you know we've been through the gamut pretty much every different scenario you can possibly think of so when we're talking about to parents especially of younger kids where you're still you know having that impact The neglect, because again, reading those things off, abuse, humiliation, chronic criticism, those are very easy to see. And maybe the criticism not as much, but those are pretty obvious. The neglect, when you first think of neglect, it's like, I just completely abandoned my kid. Dirty hair, no brushed teeth. Didn't change their diapers. They were the ones with the same clothes for three weeks in a row. Which is a thing. Clint - Mic: Because again, reading those things off, abuse, humiliation, chronic criticism, those are very easy to see. And maybe the criticism not as much, but those are pretty obvious. The neglect, you first think of neglect, it's like, oh, I just completely abandoned my kid. You know, I didn't, yeah, didn't change their diapers. They were the ones with the same clothes for three weeks in a row, whatever, for sure. Johnna - Mic: For sure. Yeah But we're also talking about just not being there for them in times that they needed you to be there for them Yeah, and it's it's little things it might be like You know, go my kids, you know, they do a you basketball and and or dance or whatever, you know And I go to all the things so I'm there for ⁓ Clint - Mic: but we're also talking about just not being there for them in times that they needed you to be there for them. And it's little things. It might be like, ⁓ know, I go, my kids, you know, they do AAU basketball or dance or whatever, you know, and I go to all the things. So I'm there for them. but I go to all the things and I'm not really paying attention and I'm there to socialize. Or to criticize. Well, right, but I'm just talking about the neglect. Right. So I'm not present when I'm there. Or I go to all their basketball games, but I never take 10 minutes to go shoot with them on a Saturday morning. Right. So it's so much broader than just I. Johnna - Mic: But I go to all the things and I'm not really paying attention and I'm there to socialize. Or to criticize. Well, right. But I'm just talking about the neglect. Right. So I'm not present when I'm there. Or. You know, I go to all their basketball games, but I never take 10 minutes to go shoot with them, you know, on a Saturday morning. Right. So it's there's it's so much broader than just I don't feed my kid. Yeah. It's all those little connections that, know, sometimes you don't you don't really pay attention to as a parent because you've got a million different things going on, all this shit everywhere. Clint - Mic: don't feed my kid. It's all those little connections that sometimes you don't really pay attention to as a parent because you've got a million different things going on, all this shit everywhere and you're tired and all the excuses, whatever, we don't need to go through them. But those little tiny moments are the things with neglect that can manifest into the stuff that we're talking about. Johnna - Mic: And it's, you know, you're tired and all the excuses, whatever, we don't need to go through them. But but not those little tiny moments are the things with neglect that can manifest into the stuff that we're talking about. Right. And I would also, you know, since we're on the AAU basketball, I would say pulling your kid aside and being, you know, super critical of their play. Clint - Mic: Yeah. Yeah. Johnna - Mic: Number one, number two, you know, how many kids have I seen over the years of coaching, you know, coming off the field or coming off the court upset, crying. What are you crying for? You need to suck it up. Like these, this is emotional neglect. Your, your child has real emotions that they need to process. Whether you think it's silly or not, that doesn't fucking matter. They're their own human and they need to feel those things. Right. Clint - Mic: You know how many kids have I seen over the years of coaching, you know coming off the field They're coming off the court upset crying. What are you crying for? need to suck it up. Yeah, like these this is emotional neglect Your your child has real emotions that they need to process whether you think it's silly or not ⁓ Johnna - Mic: And just because you've learned how to suck it up and not emotionally go through anything so that it manifests an adult bullying, ⁓ we don't want that for our children. Right? I mean, this is learned behavior, generational and passed down in our community right now. And it's to the point where we have children taking their lives. We have children who don't want to go to school. I mean, we'll go through Clint - Mic: And just because you've learned how to suck it up and not emotionally go through anything so that it manifests in adult bullying. We don't want that for our children, right? mean, this is learned behavior, generational and passed down in our community right now. And it's to the point where we have children taking their lives. We have children who don't want to go to school. I mean, we'll go through all of those things. How to identify if your kid's getting bullied. But this is an issue. And it's not, again, an issue that you're going to go to the school board and be like, something needs to be done. Johnna - Mic: all of those things, how to identify if your kid's getting bullied. But this is an issue and it's not again an issue that you're going to go to the school board and be like something needs to be done. Yes, it does. Right. But it has to start at home. Y'all have to start doing some work here and being available for your children, available for yourself because they've learned it from watching you. Clint - Mic: Yes it does, right? But it has to start at home. Y'all have to start... doing some work here and and being available for your children available for yourself because they've learned it from watching you at sports events in the public setting of your gossip and your criticism of they've learned it from you this is all learned behavior i just want to hit that one out of the park sorry i do so okay how this manifests in Johnna - Mic: at sports events, in the public setting of your gossip and your criticism of they've learned it from you. This is all learn behavior. I just want to hit that one out of the park. Sorry, I do. So, okay, how this manifests in children. So direct aggression, which I don't know if this is even a thing anymore. This is how my kids react. Clint - Mic: children. which I don't know if this is even a thing anymore. This is how my kids react. ⁓ I've had some bullies and I've had kids be bullied, right? And I've had the same conversation with all of them, which was... Johnna - Mic: ⁓ I've had some bullies and I've had kids be bullied, right? And I've had the same conversation with all of them, which was you're insecure. I already knew that bullying came from insecurity. So why? Right? And a lot of this happened in middle school because everyone's insecure. One piece of advice, parents don't send your kids to middle school, homeschool them. Clint - Mic: You're insecure. already knew that bullying came from insecurity. So why? Right? And a lot of this happened in middle school because everyone's in some of piece of advice. Parents, don't send your kids to middle school. Home school them. It's the best thing you can do. Have them read some books and write some sentences. hitting, pushing, threatening and intimidation. Right? So this is learned behavior. Johnna - Mic: It's the best thing you can do. Have them read some books and write some sentences. hitting, pushing, threatening and intimidation. Right? So this is learned behavior. Verbal bullying, insults, name-calling, mocking appearance, attacking intelligence, social manipulation, excluding someone from the group, controlling friendships, rumor spreading, turning others against someone. Clint - Mic: verbal bullying, insults, name-calling, mocking appearance, attacking intelligence, social manipulation, excluding someone from the group, controlling friendships, rumor spreading, turning others against someone. I know we're talking about children, is that again? Johnna - Mic: I know we're talking about children, but again, this is what our community is riddled with. ⁓ Psychological dominance, humiliation, public embarrassment, ⁓ targeting perceived weaknesses in people. So many bullies show low empathy, a high need for control, impulsivity, and desire for attention and status. Clint - Mic: This is what our community is riddled with. Psychological dominance, humiliation, public embarrassment, targeting perceived weaknesses in people. So many bullies show low empathy, a high need for control, impulsivity, and desire for attention and status. Johnna - Mic: And you know, they're super manipulative. Bullies are they so are in tune and reading the room because that's what they had to do growing up. If it's the adult person and if it's the child, then that's they've had to read the energy of the room at home. Right. So they get used to that and they bring that into the school setting. Right. Clint - Mic: And you know, they're super manipulative. Bullies are. They so are in tune and reading the room because that's what they had to do growing up if it's the adult person. And if it's the child, then that's they've had to read the energy of the room at home. Right. So they get used to that and they bring that into the school setting. Right. I think this one's important to make some distinctions on ⁓ what we're really talking about with how it manifests and labeling somebody a bully. Because as you read through all of those, the laundry list of here's what a bully does or here's how they act, whatever. Johnna - Mic: what we're really talking Mm-hmm It not all kids, but essentially if we're about children, all children, especially in middle school exhibit these things. Yeah. With rare exception. Yeah. And I would I would almost argue that exception. Maybe there's a whole different thing going on that maybe needs to get dug into. Yeah. It's a little Lord of the Flies in middle school. Yeah. Clint - Mic: Not all kids, but essentially, we're still talking about children, all children, especially in middle school, exhibit these things. With rare exception. And I would almost argue that exception, maybe there's a whole different thing going on that maybe needs to get dug into. Yeah, for essentially everybody. Johnna - Mic: for essentially everybody. just because you had a situation where maybe your kid got aggressive in a specific instance or maybe they got all pissed off and you know like. Clint - Mic: just because you had a situation where maybe your kid got aggressive in a specific instance, or maybe they got all pissed off and like, I can't stand this kid, he's not in our friend group anymore, whatever. Right, that's what I'm saying. Johnna - Mic: I can't stand this kid. He's not in our friend group anymore. Sure. I mean, that happens all the time. Right. That's what I'm saying. it's not like, my kid did that one time. Great. I have this fucking bully. And now I got to get him all this help and do all these things, whatever. Clint - Mic: It's not like, my kid did that one time. Great. I have this fucking bully and you know, now I got to get him all this help and you know, do all these things, whatever. These are natural things that humans are going to do, even if they're not bullies. Adults exclude people from a group and that doesn't instantly make them a bully. Right. Yes. When it's done chronically and when it's done more so, I would say Johnna - Mic: These are natural things that humans are gonna do even if they're not bullies. Adults exclude people from a group and that doesn't instantly make them a bully. Right, yes. When it's done chronically. And when it's done more so, would say for no reason or not maliciously, almost arbitrarily. I just a bully is going to be somebody that just goes to school one day or goes to work or goes to, you know, the bar or whatever social scene like. Clint - Mic: for no reason or not an obvious maliciously, but almost arbitrarily. I just, a bully is gonna be somebody that just goes to school one day or goes to work or goes to the bar or whatever social scene. Like, ⁓ I decided I don't like this person. They're out of the group. Johnna - Mic: I decided I don't like this person. They're out of the group. Yeah. Because I just need to exert some sort of dominance. You know, it's not like they did something or there was a legitimate falling out or anything like that. Clint - Mic: because I just need to exert some sort of dominance. You know, it's not like they did something or there was a legitimate falling out or anything like that. So maybe that's one, not necessarily with a bully versus asshole thing, but just identifying more natural human behavior of I got pissed off and I did something versus I'm just doing this, like you said, with malicious intent or Johnna - Mic: Maybe that's one, not necessarily with the bully versus asshole thing, but just identifying more natural human behavior of, got pissed off and I did something, versus I'm just doing this, like you said, with malicious intent or... Clint - Mic: Consistently, know all the time I'm living in this world if you have the latter That's probably more of an indication that somebody has these tendencies that somebody label them a bully But that they they tend to live more in the bully world Right, and I would say also, you know if your kid Is bullying How you respond to that Johnna - Mic: consistently, you know all the time I'm living in this world if you have the latter that's probably more of an indication that somebody has these tendencies that somebody label them a bully but that they tend to live more in the bully world. Right and I would say also you know if your kid is bullying how you respond to that is huge. Clint - Mic: is huge. Those first five seconds. So if you find out that your kid is being a jerk or whatever, and you start yelling at them and belittling them and what do you think that produces? Exactly. That's how you build a bully. Yeah, exactly. Sitting down and asking questions. The problem is, is that a lot of parents have so much time or Johnna - Mic: those first five seconds. So if you find out that your kid is being a jerk or whatever and you start yelling at them and belittling them and what do you think that produces? Exactly. Right. That's how you build a bully. Yeah, exactly. 101. Right. Like sitting down and asking questions. The problem is, is that a lot of parents have so much time restrained that they have given their children over to the state to raise them. Clint - Mic: That they have given their children over to the state to raise them And so when issues come up then they want to go after the state for how the state raised them When the state's been very clear about their standards on raising children Okay, let's just be really freaking honest So what this takes is you being an active participant in your child's life Johnna - Mic: And so when issues come up, then they want to go after the state for how the state raised them. When the state's been very clear about their standards on raising children. Okay. Let's just be really freaking honest right now. So what this takes is you being an active participant in your child's life, conversations, allowing them to speak how they're feeling. Clint - Mic: conversations allowing them to speak how they're feeling, even if it's, to coin the phrase from the 80s, I learned it from watching you, right? If you remember the drug commercial, don't do drugs. Right? They learn it from watching you. Or, because they're so neglected emotionally at home, it's Lord of the Flies at school. It is. And so, again, don't blame the state for Johnna - Mic: Even if it's to coin the phrase from the eighties, I learned it from watching you, right? If you remember the drug commercial or don't do drugs, right? They learn it from watching you or because they're so neglected emotionally at home, it's Lord of the Flies at school. It is. And so again, don't blame the state for Clint - Mic: the state doing what the state knows how to do, which is everything shitty. The government! That is the most applicable blanket statement you could ever make. Yeah. Yeah. If the government's gonna do it, it's gonna be shitty. Yeah, they can even balance the checkbooks. Right. you are giving them... Johnna - Mic: the state doing what the state knows how to do, which is everything shitty. Sorry, it's the government, you guys. Is the most applicable blanket statement you could ever make. Yeah. I mean, when you just do it, it's going to be shitty. Yeah, they can't even balance a checkbook and you are giving them your children and expecting them to make a beautiful garden out of their life. And it just isn't happening. So you have to be an active participant because of course, you know, at the end of the day, I'm like, take your kids out, homeschool them, take them out in nature. Clint - Mic: garden out of their life and it just isn't happening so you have to be an active participant because of course you know at the end of the day I'm like take your kids out homeschool them take them out in nature don't even worry make sure they can read write and do some math teach them how to be entrepreneurs and free spirits because everyone's been given a gift and have them move into that gift but if you cannot do that Johnna - Mic: Don't even worry. Make sure they can read, write and do some math. Teach them how to be entrepreneurs and free spirits because everyone's been given a gift and have them move into that gift. if you cannot do that, right, you have to work. You're not maybe you're slowly but surely trying to shift out of that. Don't offer up your children as a sacrifice to the government and expect them to be amazing. It just isn't going to happen. But in the interim, Clint - Mic: Right? You have to work. You're not, maybe you're slowly but surely trying to shift out of that. Don't offer up your children as a sacrifice to the government and expect them to be amazing. It just isn't going to happen. But in the interim, be an active participant in speaking with your children. Johnna - Mic: Be an active participant in speaking with your children. Clint - Mic: ⁓ Something that just popped into my head when you were saying that is one of Stephen Covey's seven habits. Seek to understand before being understood. That's such a critical component of this stuff when you're talking about a parent-child thing because a kid does something and you're just pissed. Especially if... Johnna - Mic: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Clint - Mic: It's like, I gotta go to the school again. I gotta deal with whatever again. And then you just wanna yell and scream like you were saying. But there's a real good chance there's something else going on. Or maybe not. Maybe it was just a situation like this was a weird little one-off, know, my buddy and I got in a fight. mean, the last fight I got into, I was in fifth grade, physical altercation. And it was with my best friend. And I don't even know, Johnna - Mic: The last fight I got into, was in fifth grade. Physical altercation. And it was with my best friend. And I don't even know. Like we were playing soccer and he thought I should pass. You know what it's with boys, it's always when they're playing a sport because Granger got in a fight in middle school and ended up like, you know, getting, I don't know, suspended, you know, for him and a kid that I thought was his friend that he played basketball with, you know, punched him in the face. Clint - Mic: like we were playing soccer and he thought I should pass and I didn't. It's always when they're playing a sport. Granger got in a fight in middle school and ended up getting suspended. And a kid that I thought was his friend that he played basketball with punched him in the face. And vice versa, they just punched each other. This is how boys work things out. Girls are definitely a little bit more manipulative. Johnna - Mic: And vice versa, they just punched each other. This is how boys work things out. Girls are definitely a little bit more manipulative. So anyway, let's move on. OK, I guess I was done with that story. Oh, I didn't know you weren't done. Yeah, just just the idea of not not everything is a catastrophic, know, we need to go deep into your. Clint - Mic: Anyway, let's move on. Okay, I guess I was done with that story. I didn't know you were done! That's okay. Yeah. Just the idea of not... not everything is a catastrophic, you know, we need to go deep into your childhood or into your emotional ⁓ bank or whatever and figure it out. Sometimes with kids, it is just a stupid little thing, but still when you seek to understand before being understood, then, and you have that relationship with your kid, then in that moment, it can just be like, listen, dad, you know, we just got pissed off. Johnna - Mic: Childhood or into your emotional ⁓ Bank or whatever and figure it out sometimes with kids it is just a stupid little thing But still when you when you seek to understand before being understood Then and you have that relationship with your kid then in that moment it can be like listen dad, know, we just got pissed off at each other and He punched me and I punched him and then we laughed about it in the principal's office and now Clint - Mic: off at each other and he punched me and I punched him and then we laughed about it in the principal's office and that was it. Sometimes it's a little bit more but if you react with the you know the anger and all those emotions then then it's gonna manifest in other ways. Absolutely. So let's talk about victims, right? Children who are victims. Victims often show patterns that make them targets, not because they deserve it at all. Johnna - Mic: Sometimes it's a little bit more, but if you react with the anger and all those emotions, then it's going to manifest in other ways. Absolutely. So let's talk about victims, right? Children who are victims. Victims often show patterns that make them targets, not because they deserve it at all, but because predators sense the vulnerability, right? So they're highly... Clint - Mic: but because predators sense the vulnerability, right? So they're highly sensitive. Maybe they have some social anxiety. They're physically different, which every kid is different. And I feel like you're just made fun of no matter what you do. It's just so like devastating to me. ⁓ If they're an introvert, right? Or they have like not a big... Johnna - Mic: sensitive, maybe they have some social anxiety, they're physically different, which every kid is different. And I feel like you're just made fun of no matter what you do. It's just so like devastating to me. ⁓ If they're an introvert, right? Or they have like not a big, you know, maybe they're a loner, basically loners or or they have low self confidence, which when you're a child, you have like Clint - Mic: you know, maybe they're a loner, basically. they have low self-confidence, which when you're a child, that's like part of the rite of passage, I feel like. anyway, ⁓ manifestations in victims can include, Johnna - Mic: part of the rite of passage, feel like. anyway, ⁓ manifestations in victims can include shame, anxiety, depression, fear of school and social withdrawal. So parents, if your children are experiencing these things, this should be an indicator to you that something is going on, right? That you need to be having these conversations. Clint - Mic: shame, depression, fear of school, and social withdrawal. So parents, if your children are experiencing these things, this should be an indicator to you that something is going on, right? That you need to be having these conversations. Physical indicators would be headaches, stomach aches, sleeping problems, like my kids. Johnna - Mic: Physical indicators would be headaches, stomach aches, sleeping problems. Like my kids, some of the kids that were bullied, have kids that were bullied, had all these things. A lot of gut issues, right? Avoiding activities is another thing that they will do. ⁓ Declining academic performances and isolation, ⁓ which is so sad. But when you see these things in your children, Clint - Mic: Some of the kids that were bullied, kids that were bullied had all these things. A lot of gut issues, right? Avoiding activities is another thing that they will do. ⁓ Declining academic performances and isolation. ⁓ which is so sad, but when you see these things in your children, it's probably past the point of a conversation, but definitely needing to have a conversation with your child about what's going on. Because not every kid is gonna come home and tell their parents that they're being bullied, because maybe they're also being bullied at home. Johnna - Mic: you know, it's probably past the point of a conversation, but definitely needing to have a conversation with your child about what's going on because not every kid is going to come home and tell their parents that they're being bullied because maybe they're also being bullied at home. Right? I don't know. But these are just some things that you can look for. Clint - Mic: I don't know, but these are just some things that you can look for. I think I've told this story on the podcast before, but when I was in the second grade, third grade combo class, how I went through, I mean, I don't know how long, it's been a long time ago now, but days and days and days of, I can vividly remember just screaming at my mom. Johnna - Mic: Mm-hmm. ⁓ been a long time ago now, but days and days and days of, can vividly remember just... Clint - Mic: I am sick. I am sick. I can't go to school. I'm sick and I wasn't, you know, but I, maybe I felt like that, I would just like balling and just so emotional. I can't go to school. And it was because my teacher was bullying me. Yeah. And finally, you know, Johnna - Mic: sick I am sick I can't go to school I'm sick and I wasn't you know but I maybe I felt like that but but I would just like bawling and just so emotional I can't go to school and it was because my teacher was ⁓ that happens yeah and and finally Clint - Mic: long story short, but when we were able to have a conversation about it with my mom, then got things worked out with her and then went to the teacher. So it wasn't like, didn't make a big deal about it, didn't go to the school board or, going to the school board didn't even seem like a thing back then, but maybe just because I was a kid. Johnna - Mic: long story short, when we were able to have a conversation about it with my mom, then, you know, got things worked out with her and then went to the teacher, you know, so it wasn't like, didn't make a big deal about it, didn't go to the school board or, you know, like, going to the school board didn't seem like a thing back then, but maybe just because I was a kid, but went to the teacher. Clint - Mic: but went to the teacher and just had a rational conversation, didn't go in there yelling and screaming and she wasn't pointing fingers and acting in a way that would further ⁓ exacerbate what I was going through. And the teacher had no idea. He saw things in me and I was in the second grade in the second, third combo and. Johnna - Mic: and just had a rational conversation. Didn't go in there yelling and screaming and you know she wasn't pointing fingers and acting in a way that would further ⁓ exacerbate what I was going through. And the teacher had no idea. He was, he saw things in me and I was in the second grade in the second, third combo and... ⁓ Clint - Mic: and ⁓ he recognized a lot of things and he was trying to connect with me, but I wasn't taking it that way. And to his credit, he was super receptive and it didn't happen anymore. And he became one of my favorite teachers of like K-12. He was one of my favorite teachers after that. But the reason I bring that up is... Johnna - Mic: he recognized a lot of things and he was trying to connect with me but I wasn't taking it that way and to his credit he was super receptive and it didn't happen anymore and he became one of my favorite teachers of like K-12 he was one of my favorite teachers after that but the reason I bring that up is Clint - Mic: the importance of the conversation and of communication. it can be, you know, every situation is different. I'm not saying you take that exact approach, but when you're able to have that conversation, my mom knew I wasn't sick, you know, ill. Johnna - Mic: the importance of the conversation and of communication. it can be, you know, every situation is different. I'm not saying you take that exact approach, but when you're able to have that conversation, my mom knew I wasn't sick, you know, ill. Clint - Mic: there was something going on and she was able to communicate with me and then we were able to communicate with him and then get everything squared away versus her just saying like, you gotta suck it up, you're not sick, I know you're not sick, get your ass to school, my mom wouldn't say ass, get to school because this is what you need to do. So. Johnna - Mic: there was something going on and she was able to communicate with me and then we were able to communicate with him and then get everything squared away versus her just saying like, you gotta suck it up, you're not sick, I know you're not sick, get your ass to school. My mom would say that. get to school because this is what you need to do. Yeah. I think that a couple of things within that story that we're struggling with nowadays is teachers that will receive criticism without completely invalidating a student's feelings and emotions. Because I have seen teacher bullies in our system. I've seen adults bully Clint - Mic: is teachers that will receive criticism ⁓ without completely invalidating a student's feelings and emotions. Because I have seen teacher bullies in our system. I've seen adults bully other children in sports. Like, this is a thing here. Johnna - Mic: other children in sports. Like this is a thing here. And, you know, that's why I really wanted to talk about what it comes from, because this is a deep seated generational issue in our community. And if you can hear these accounts, like Clint - Mic: You know, that's why I really wanted to talk about what it comes from because this is a deep seated generational issue in our community. And if you can hear these accounts like, you know, Clint just told about the teacher, you have to be able to receive those things because what happens, I know in our community is that they do go through the chain of command, right? They do go to the teacher. Johnna - Mic: you know, Clint just told about the teacher, you have to be able to receive those things because what happens, I know in our community is that they do go through the chain of command, right? They do go to the teacher. Nothing I can do or not my problem or, know, whatever that is, or I didn't do that, right? That is across the board. If I could just do a broad brushstroke. No, I didn't. Clint - Mic: nothing I can do or not my problem or you know whatever that is or I didn't do that right that is across the board if I could just do a broad brushstroke no I didn't because I've sat in five kids I sat in countless meetings so basically it's completely invalidating my kids at all and I understand that I know how kids explain things where they are the victim Johnna - Mic: No, I didn't because I've sat in five kids. I've sat in countless meetings. So basically it's completely invalidating my kids at all. And I understand that I know how kids explain things where they are the victim. But guess what? Adults do the exact same thing. And so finding the middle ground, right? There's not a lot of that. And so parents automatically flip out and they have to go to Clint - Mic: So guess what? Adults do the exact same thing. And so finding the middle ground, right? There's not a lot of that. And so parents automatically flip out and they have to go to the next person and the next person and the next person. And that's how it escalates because we've as a society lost the ability to have those conversations. Right. And that's what we're trying to inspire in this podcast is like being an adult. Johnna - Mic: the next person and the next person and the next person. And that's how it escalates because we've as a society lost the ability to have those conversations, right? And that's what we're trying to inspire in this podcast is like being an adult just because you're in an adult body doesn't mean that you actually behave as an adult. Clint - Mic: just because you're in an adult body doesn't mean that you actually behave as an adult. That's a profound statement. It's just the fact. mean I've seen it. My kids have gone through the school system. They've played sports. It is just... Johnna - Mic: It's just the facts. mean, I've seen it. My kids have gone through the school system. They've played sports. It is just riddled with it. I mean, my last child, she couldn't even go to school. It was so bad. She stopped playing sports because of bullying and not just from children. It was mostly adults. So Clint - Mic: riddled with it. mean my last child she couldn't even go to school. It was so bad. She stopped playing sports because of bullying and not just from children. It was mostly adults. So you know I've lived this and it's just like okay we're done. You know when she would call me from the bathroom having a panic attack. ⁓ Johnna - Mic: I've lived this and it's just like, okay, we're done. When she would call me from the bathroom having a panic attack, ⁓ was like, okay, this has just gone way too far. We're all done with this. anyway, how bullying shows up in adults. If we haven't hit this one out of the park, we're going to just, this is a grand slam. Clint - Mic: I was like, okay, this has just gone way too far. We're all done with this. anyway, how bullying shows up in adults. If we haven't hit this one out of the park, we're going to just, is a grand slam. ⁓ Okay. So bullying obviously doesn't disappear in adulthood. It's just carried on. So it just becomes ⁓ manipulative ⁓ and you know, on the down low. Johnna - Mic: So bullying obviously doesn't disappear in adulthood. It's just carried on. So it just becomes more ⁓ manipulative and, you know, on the down low. ⁓ So workplace bullying, obviously public criticism, undermining coworkers, sabotage, intimidation, withholding information, social bullying, gossip networks. Clint - Mic: So workplace bullying, public criticism, undermining coworkers, sabotage, intimidation, withholding information, social bullying, gossip networks, character assassinations, exclusion from social groups, and reputation damage. Johnna - Mic: character assassinations, exclusion from social groups and reputation damage. And I would say that for our community, this is probably the biggest way that this ⁓ manifests. And it's very sad. mean, I, I have on the rare occasion we have clients or gym members come in Clint - Mic: And I would say that for our community, this is probably the biggest way that this manifests. And it's very sad. mean, I have on the rare occasion, we have clients or gym members come in and they want to tell us things. I just. Johnna - Mic: and they want to tell us things. And I just automatically, the first thing that comes to my head is, ⁓ this person is, mean, tell me you're insecure without telling me you're insecure. So obviously there's compassion there, but I don't even respond. There is no response at all. And it may be awkward. It may be Clint - Mic: automatically the first thing that comes to my head is, ⁓ this person is, I mean tell me you're insecure without telling me you're insecure. So obviously there's compassion there, but I don't even respond. There is no response at all. And it may be awkward, it may be whatever, but I'm not responding to any kind of, I want to assassinate someone else's character, I want to talk crap about another business, wanna whatever. The best way to shut it down is to just like this. If you're not on YouTube, I'm just staring. Like literally I have no response to that. It dies. Johnna - Mic: whatever, but I'm not responding to any kind of I want to assassinate someone else's character. want to talk crap about another business. want to whatever the best way to shut it down is to just like this. If you're not on YouTube, I'm just staring like literally I have no response for that. It dies, right? It dies with me. It dies with anyone who comes into elevated. Clint - Mic: Right? It dies with me. It dies with anyone who comes into elevated. There's no way that I'm feeding into any of that. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I think the other the other side of it and maybe it's not the other side of it, but. Johnna - Mic: There's no way that I'm feeding into any of that. Yeah, I I totally agree. think the other, the other side of it, maybe it's not the... Clint - Mic: Again, if we're talking about this community and probably a lot of other small town communities are similar, I would imagine. The thing that jumped out at me is those last two things that you said, exclusion from social groups and reputation damage. Johnna - Mic: Again, you know, if we're talking about this community and probably a lot of other small, small town communities are similar. would imagine the thing that jumped out at me is, is those last few things that you said, exclusion from social groups and reputation damage ⁓ as from the side of the person that it's happening to. that is being excluded or having their reputation. Clint - Mic: as ⁓ from the side of the person that it's happening to. So that is being excluded or having their reputation damaged for no real reason, just because somebody is legitimately being a bully. And how there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of groups, let's just say here. There's not a lot of social circles that you can be in. And so if you are just legitimately bullied out of a social group, it's one thing, again, you know, like if it's the knitting group and you're going there hammered and wanting to, I don't know, play football, like, okay, maybe you shouldn't be in the knitting group, whatever that might be. But if it's just a bully, somebody that's just Johnna - Mic: And so if you are just legitimately bullied out of a social group, it's one thing again, you know, like if it's the knitting group and you're going there hammered and wanting to, I don't know, play football, like, okay, maybe you shouldn't be in the knitting group, whatever that might be. But if it's just a bully, somebody that's just. Clint - Mic: acting out on their internal insecurities and taking it out on you and then you're excluded from those things, there isn't a whole bunch other available groups. I think that that's why people really stick to themselves in this community. mean, most of the people that I speak to at elevated fitness, ⁓ Johnna - Mic: acting out on their internal insecurities and taking it out on you and then you're excluded from those things. There isn't a whole bunch other available groups. I think that that's why people really stick to themselves in this community. mean most of the people that I speak to at elevated fitness really stick to themselves because they've had a taste of it. I can't you know I tried to be Clint - Mic: really stick to themselves because they've had a taste of it. I tried to be friends, I tried to go out and it was just like, no thank you. So it causes isolation too and then it also causes like... Johnna - Mic: friends. I tried to go out and have and then it was just like, no, thank you. Right. And so it causes isolation too. And then it also causes like, I'm nervous to go be in the run club because when I was in the whatever club, it was nothing but character assassination of everyone who wasn't there. But then when they walked in the door, it was like, ⁓ my gosh, it's so good to see you. So anyway. Clint - Mic: I'm nervous to go be in the run club because when I was in the whatever club it was nothing but character assassination of everyone who wasn't there but then when they walked in the door it was like oh my gosh it's so good to see you so anyway that's that's just Johnna - Mic: That's, that's just something that we need to work on as a community. So the other way that this happens in adulthood, I really want to hit this is online bullying, right? Harassment, public shaming, trolling. If you're someone who leaves negative comments on someone just living their truth in their own little Instagram or TikTok Facebook world, like that is a form of bullying. Clint - Mic: that we need to work on as a community. So the other way that this happens in adulthood, I really want to hit this, is online bullying, right? Harassment, public shaming, trolling. If you're someone who leaves negative comments on someone just living their truth in their own little Instagram or TikTok Facebook world, like that is a form of bullying. It just is. ⁓ Johnna - Mic: It just is. ⁓ And it's funny because adults often frame these things as just being honest, tough leadership, or I'm just someone who tells it like it is, right? This is just like in your world. That's how it is. But we're all living in our own worlds. I know that's really hard for people to understand, but all of our perspectives are different, right? So if it's just like, I'm just going to tell like it is. Clint - Mic: And it's funny because adults often frame these things as just being honest, tough leadership, or I'm just someone who tells it like it is. Right? This is just like in your world, that's how it is. But we're all living in our own worlds. I know that's really hard for people to understand, but all of our perspectives are different. Right? So if it's just like, I'm just going to tell it like it is, that's for you. Like that's you. Johnna - Mic: That's for you. Like that's you or your tell yourself how it is. It's just that's. Clint - Mic: Tell yourself how it is. It's just that's one of my least favorite mentalities, I guess. And it's so fascinating because so often the people who are that I'm just honest, I'm just real, I'm just telling it how it is. When you say something back to them that they don't agree with, they become the most offended. Like what gives you the right to say that? Johnna - Mic: favorite mentalities. right. And it's so fascinating because so often the people who are that I'm just honest. I'm just really I'm just telling them how it is. When you say something back to them that they don't agree with, they become the most offended. ⁓ totally. What gives you the right to say that? Yeah. Yeah. If one second ago, I was proclaiming how I'm just so honest and, you know, tell it like it is. Clint - Mic: One second ago, I was proclaiming how I'm just so honest and tell it like it is, but now it's like, you're not allowed to do that. You can't tell it like it is if it's not aligned with what I'm saying. So again, that goes back to the internal, know, dysregulated central nervous system. Johnna - Mic: But now it's like, you're not allowed to do that. No, You can't tell it like it is if it's not aligned with what I'm saying. So again, that goes back to the internal, you know, dysregulated central nervous system. Okay. We're going to circle back because this is my favorite thing. And if everyone can understand that this is actually what a bully is struggling with in security and a fragile identity. Clint - Mic: favorite thing and if everyone can understand that this is actually what a bully is struggling with, insecurity and a fragile identity. Why in our community do we have so many people who are insecure and have a fragile identity? Johnna - Mic: Why in our community do we have so many people who are insecure and have a fragile identity? That's the bigger question, right? Because people who feel secure internally rarely feel the need to dominate others if ever, right? They have empathy, they can cooperate, they're respectful and Clint - Mic: That's the bigger question, right? Because people who feel secure internally rarely feel the need to dominate others if ever, right? They have empathy, they can cooperate, they're respectful. And chronic insecurity is where control, intimidation, and humiliation of others lives. It's gross. It's like the swamp, right? So... Johnna - Mic: Chronic insecurity is where control intimidation and Humiliation of others lives. It's gross. It's like the swamp, right? So that's what it Clint - Mic: So do you have answers to those questions? Why we have that in our community? think it's just been a generational... All the things that Gen X was told growing up. Suck it up, don't have feelings. You know, all those things. And... Johnna - Mic: why we have that in our community. think it's just been a generational, ⁓ all the things that Gen X was told growing up, suck it up, don't have feelings, you know, all those things. And there's a large part of our community that think that any kind of inner work healing is weak. Clint - Mic: there's a large part of our community that think that any kind of inner work healing is weak. Now I think that they're slowly but surely waking up to it potentially, but it also means that they have to be vulnerable and not the tough guy or the tough girl. And I think that that's a hard thing for them to admit. However, when it's... Johnna - Mic: Now I think that they're slowly but surely waking up to it potentially, but it also means that they have to be vulnerable and not the tough guy or the tough girl. And I think that that's a hard thing for them to ⁓ admit. However, when it's causing so many issues with our children now, because this has been passed down for so long. Clint - Mic: causing so many issues with our children now because this has been passed down for so long that we have children that are committing suicide and not wanting to go to school. I think it's something we really have to look at within ourselves and then for our kids. Give them tools, right? And that's hard. Johnna - Mic: ⁓ that we have children that are committing suicide and not wanting to go to school. I think it's something we really have to to look at within ourselves and then for kids, give them tools, right? And that's hard. That means you're going to have to be vulnerable with your kid. That means you might need to apologize. Clint - Mic: That means you're gonna have to be vulnerable with your kids. That means you might need to apologize. Who knows what that means, right? And if you're a teacher, it might mean that you need to like do some introspection and go, how am I contributing? The other thing I really thought of like an actionable step for our community specifically. Johnna - Mic: who knows what that means, right? And if you're a teacher, it might mean that you need to like do some introspection and go, how am I contributing? The other thing I really thought of like an actionable step for our community specifically would be if and this is hard because so many parents work, but if there could be more eyes and ears in the classrooms, you know, remember when parents used to go volunteer and like Clint - Mic: would be if, and this is hard because so many parents work, but if there could be more eyes and ears in the classrooms, remember when parents used to go volunteer and like, know, grade papers for the teacher. And then also when you're confronted with these bullying situations, parents or teachers or paras or whoever is in there, probably the worst thing you could do to that bully is Johnna - Mic: you know, grade papers for the teacher. And then also when you're confronted with these bullying situations, parents or teachers or paras or whoever is in there, probably the worst thing you could do to that bully is belittle them even more for their behavior. Because really at the end of the day, a bully just really needs love and compassion. They need space and ask questions. Clint - Mic: Belittle them even more for their behavior because really at the end of the day a bully just really needs love and compassion. They need space and ask questions. Why are you doing that? Johnna - Mic: Why are you doing that? How would you feel if someone said that to you? Like these are conversations that I had with my kids who got wrapped up in moments of bullying. How would you feel if someone told you were you were ugly? Like I want to know. And of course I remember there was I'd be fine. No, you wouldn't. Like how would that make you feel? Right. So having conversations instead of because you know, I know there's a lot of parents who want to pounce on Clint - Mic: would you feel if someone said that to you like these are conversations that I had with my kids who got wrapped up in moments of bullying how would you feel if someone told you were you were ugly like I want to know and of course I remember there was I'd be fine like how would that make you feel right so having conversations instead of because you know I know there's a lot of parents who want to pounce on I know there's a lot of parents who want pounce on ⁓ Johnna - Mic: know there's a lot of parents who want to pounce on bullies and I get it right because that's that first emotional response but you need to regulate yourself adults and go how can we come at this in a better way because bullying begets bullying it just does bullies and I get it right because that's that first emotional response but you need to regulate yourself adults and go how can we come at this in a better way because bullying begets bullying it just does Clint - Mic: bullies and I get it right because that's that first emotional response but you need to regulate yourself adults and go how can we come at this in a better way because bullying begets bullying it just does bullies and I get it right because that's that first emotional response but you need to regulate yourself adults and go how can we come at this in a better way because bullying begets bullying it just does yeah I completely agree Johnna - Mic: Do you anything else that you want to that you want to say? Clint - Mic: No, I think I'm good. I was gonna go on a different tangent, but I think I'll save that for another episode. It is your job as parents to make sure that your kids have a healthy self-worth. It is not the job of the state. They're there to teach them a skewed version of history, new math that is ridiculous, and... Johnna - Mic: It is your job as parents to make sure that your kids have a healthy self-worth. It is not the job of the state. They're there to teach them a skewed version of history, new math that is ridiculous. And, sorry, I'm just saying that's what they're doing. They're not there. Clint - Mic: Sorry. I'm just saying that's what they're doing. They're not there to support your children emotionally, right? I mean, they're just not. That's- No, and they shouldn't be. No, that's your job as a parent. It just is. And I know that it's hard when you have two working parents- Johnna - Mic: to support your children emotionally, right? mean, they're just not, that's your- No, shouldn't be. No, that's your job as a parent. It just is. And I know that it's hard when you have two working parents, you've got three kids, they're all different ages, they're running in all different opposite directions of each other. I know how hard that is. Clint - Mic: You've got three kids, they're all different ages, they're running in all different opposite directions of each other. I know how hard that is, but at the end of the day, getting angry with the system for doing system things is ridiculous. It just is. It's not the system's responsibility, it is yours. And hopefully, I mean, I know we've talked a lot this podcast, but hopefully we've given you at least one nugget to take away and bring in Johnna - Mic: But at the end of the day, getting angry with the system for doing system things is ridiculous. It just is. It's not the system's responsibility. It is yours. hopefully, I mean, I know we've talked a lot this podcast, but hopefully we've given you at least one nugget to take away and bring into your home and your family and discuss and communicate. Clint - Mic: into your home and your family and discuss and communicate about what this is doing, what this systemic bullying in our community is doing to the humans in this community. Because it's just, you know, it's rampant and it's in everything. This is why we have so little involvement in youth sports and activities in the community. People don't want to get involved. They don't want to be a part of it. And so we have Johnna - Mic: about what this is doing, what this systemic bullying in our community is doing to the humans in this community. Because it's just, you know, it's rampant and it's in everything. This is why we have so little involvement in youth sports, in activities in the community. People don't want to get involved. They don't want to be a part of it. And so we have to fix it to build the community. And if we don't, then it's just going to unraveling over and over and there's going to be more victims. And that is not what we want. So anyway, just one last thing. you. Clint - Mic: to fix it to build the community. And if we don't, then it's just going to keep unraveling over and over and there's going to be more victims. And that is not what we want. So anyway. Just one last thought with the healthy self-worth. know, parents' job to instill that in their kids, have their kids figure that out, you know, how to have their own healthy self-worth. It doesn't happen if you don't have a healthy self-worth. Johnna - Mic: figure that out. And so, you know, a concept that we talk about all the time, put your own oxygen mask on other people. You are not going to be able to help your kids through whatever version of bullying they're going to be experiencing, whether it's the the bully or the bully. The bully, if you don't have that for yourself. It's so true. It absolutely is true. So help yourself. Clint - Mic: And so, know, a concept that we talk about all the time, put your own oxygen mask on before you help other people. You are not gonna be able to help your kids through whatever version of bullying they're gonna be experiencing, whether it's the bullier or the bully-ee, the bullied, if you don't have that for yourself. It's so true. It absolutely is true. So help yourself and then... Johnna - Mic: and then help your kids and help each other learn together. Right. I mean, it's okay to do that. It's okay to apologize to your kid. It's okay for them to see you as being vulnerable and learning new things. Right. Like that's where real healing comes. So anyway, I hope this was helpful. Thank you so much for listening. ⁓ Clint - Mic: And help each other learn together. I mean, it's okay to do that. It's okay to apologize to your kids. It's okay for them to see you as being vulnerable and learning new things, right? Like that's where real healing comes. So anyway, I hope this was helpful. Thank you so much for listening. And we'll talk to you soon.