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How eCommerce Brands Expand Internationally Without Adding Complexity | Andy Hooper · Selling on Giants: The eCommerce Marketplace Podcast

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Selling on Giants.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is about how e-commerce brands expand internationally without creating unnecessary complexity.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm joined by Andy Hooper, co-founder of Expandedly and an expert in international expansion who's helped established brands enter new marketplaces with the right structure, systems, and expectation.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Andy brings a practical operator perspective to this conversation.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: His path into e-commerce started in 2008 financial crisis when he began selling products through eBay and Amazon as a way to work his way out of debt.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: That experience eventually led him into VAT compliance, international consulting, logistics, product compliance, and multi-market operations.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, we break down what makes a brand ready for international expansion, why Andy typically looks for at least$5 million in annual home market revenue, and why expanding globally requires more than just opening accounts in marketplaces and other countries.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: We also cover the four pillars of expansion, the capital and inventory required to support a launch, the importance of localized websites and SEO, and why brands should enter one market at a time instead of launching everywhere at once.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Andy also walks us through Expandly's 90-day onboarding process, including market planning, compliance, logistics, launch, and optimization.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: If your brand is considering the UK, Europe, or another international market, this conversation will help you understand the risk, cost, and operational foundation required to do it successfully.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's jump in, guys.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Andy, welcome to the Selling on Giants podcast.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're excited to have you here to talk about expanding internationally without adding complexity.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited to dive into this.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: We do uh support international expansion.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: We think it's a great way to expand revenue, but a lot of sellers are really intimidated by the whole process.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to have an expert on who can kind of talk to expanding internationally and what are some of the pros and cons.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: But before we dive into that, I want to learn a little bit about Andy.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: How did you fall into this niche?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like what led you into e-commerce and the path that you currently lead with international expansion?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I mean thanks for having me on, by the way.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, that that uh 2008-2009 financial crash was the pivotable moment for me.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: I had a job and the banks were sort of closing in on everyone globally.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I had 5,000 pounds, you know, probably six or seven thousand dollars in debt on a credit card.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time you could move things from 0% finance to 0% finance, and during the crash, they decided that that was a bad idea and they'd stick 40, 50, 60 percent interest on everyone's credit card.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that the the ability to move 5,000 from one credit card to another at 0% all of a sudden became you know 40 interest per year, like so you're adding 2,000 pounds, 2,000 of interest per year.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, my my payments were 2,000 a year, so all of a sudden I've got 4,000 a year.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I was absolutely broke.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: I had an amazing job that I loved, and that job was working for British sailing, the governing body for sailing here in the UK.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: And the job was to get more people into sailing and find put get people on an Olympic pathway.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, but any job that you love doing, passionate about, tends to not pay very much money.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to my employer and said, Hey, Mr.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: Employer, I need to earn some more money because I've got this debt that I can't service.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: Would you give me a pay rise?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: And they said no, and understandably because we're in a recession and no one was getting a pay rise.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I totally understand.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: But then it was like a necessity.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, how do we get out of this hole?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: How do we climb out?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd always been quite entrepreneurial of buying things, selling things in various guises over the years.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: But at this point, I was like, okay, I've got to step up for my family, I need to make a change, and I need to claw us out of this hole.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I started by we did a number of side hustles.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: One of the side hustles getting to e-comm specific was going to what we have something called car boot sales.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: They're like garage sales, but like a thousand of them all in one in one field.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: And what I would do is I'd get loads of stuff and I'd then go to the car boot sale and sell it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: So you sell it and you make$150 for the for the day.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, it's got to be a better way.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: But when I was walking around this, this is basically everyone selling their rubbish they don't want.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I could sell that on eBay.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I then started going to these and buying things and putting them on eBay.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'd I'd clean them, tidy them, put them on eBay.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then during that journey, I then started buying things from China on Alibaba and then putting them onto uh Amazon and selling them on Amazon and eBay.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: And that started this journey, like 2008, nine, leading into probably 2010, of this e-commerce journey I've been on over the last almost 20 years, I guess.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: I started out at e-commerce very similarly.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, go we call them estate sales, going to houses, buying uh the stuff cheap and flipping them online, and then we went the agency route.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: We were getting good at doing it.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really a lot of people get into it.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's always like uh, but it's fun.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I have fun memories of going to thrift stores and and estate sales and finding some really good product to sell.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, there was the there's the excitement of the hunt.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yes, you're like, what am I gonna find state?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because you have no idea.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: So you're off like rummaging and looking at stuff, and you're like, then you buy stuff and you sell it, and you think, Well, it didn't work.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: Then you buy stuff and you're like, Well, how did I make so much money on that?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: And it's that entrepreneurial journey that many people have been on of the highs and lows.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you got no idea what you're gonna get, and you just get slightly better every time you do it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's the journey, continuous learning.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: But on that note, so very entrepreneurial.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you found e-commerce.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get into international expansion?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's like the next level for so obviously some of your brands or products must have done pretty well.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is that kind of what led you into uh the international arena?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to say yes, because that would make a much better story, but that's not actually the case.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I I was I I had I said there were side hustles, and I had probably eight side hustles.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: One of them was selling things on ecom.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was doing some uh private coaching, I was 3D printing and I'd doing wedding photography.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I had all this stuff going on, and in the end I had enough money saved up and I could see enough income coming in to leave my job and go on it on my own.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that was sort of 2014, so 12 years ago.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I was basically a busy fool.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was selling some stuff on e-comm, I was doing some weddings, I was 3D printing, I was doing some sports consultancy, and I approached my accountant and said, Hey, I need to do some management consulting.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing this business consulting for the sports business, but I could make that management consulting.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: Have you got any clients that you might be able to put me in touch with?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: So they said, Well, why don't you come and do it for us?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, sure, we had a great relationship.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: That would be a business in 12 months, and all that was was by using my sales skills I'd learnt elsewhere and link selling.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: So basically, you sell one product, you upsell them to something else.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Literally almost as simple as that.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: But during this journey, there was a uh a thing that happened with Amazon.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Loads of people from the states, 2016.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: This is now, it was selling stuff on Amazon in in the UK and Europe, and they didn't they they were just selling.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was like the Wild West.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: And the UK government got hold of this and was like, Amazon, if these people don't have a VAT number by the 16th of December, I think it was 2016, 12th of December, then at that point you're liable for all their VAT.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: So there was this mass panic to get everyone VAT registered back in 2016, so 10 years ago, almost 10 years ago.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I saw this opportunity in and I knew nothing about VAT, but I knew about e-commerce.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: So what we did is we we set up a business and we did VAT compliance, which was the early embryonic stage of global expansion.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: And without I want to try and fast track to get to the point, but what we used to do is I used to get on the phone with clients and say, How's your expansion going?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it was that one simple question where people would then say, Oh, yeah, yeah, we the VAT is great, Andy.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks very much.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: You're doing a great job, but we've got a problem with warehousing, or we've got a problem with product compliance or containers, or we need to be in Germany.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: And what happened was that was then the piece where we learned and understood and listened to our clients of what their pain points were, which then got into this international expansion, excuse me, got into this international expansion that then became this big behemoth thing that I just couldn't like it, just grew and grew and grew.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is amazing, and also like it's amazing how um you like people, you're always like, How do you like when I hear international expansion is a specialty?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing I ask is like, how does somebody stumble into that niche?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you hear your story, you're kind of a jack of all trades, master of none, but then you saw this opportunity, and then through that opportunity, uh you delivered the service, and then you got feedback from the customer and you expanded.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it uh it's it's the dream, you know, it's the entrepreneurial dream, and the fact that you know it's grown the way it has is uh is very admirable.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And now, so how long has Expandly been uh how long have you been doing this for?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, well, we we started business in 2016.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um actually expandly was an acquisition we did.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I went on this.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we we the the original business was Global E-Commerce Experts, and what we did is we doubled that every year.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then and then we we reached 10 figures, sorry, eight figures, 10 figures, I'm going the wrong direction.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Eight figures, and at eight figures, I started seeing our organic growth slowing.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: So we started acquiring businesses, and expanding was one of the acquisitions that we did along that journey.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, we had all of the compliance sorted for the whole of Europe, we had logistics sorted for the whole of Europe, but what we were missing was like some software to make it all simple and easy.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: And expandy was one of the acquisitions we did.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but one thing's interesting.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: I realized I was I was much better at was I'm a much better B2B person.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I prefer conversations.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: So the brands that we had just slowly, I just slowly lost interest for if if that's probably the you know, we you know, they were never freaking they were never seven-figure businesses, but they always did well.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, we were doing six figures, but I just wasn't passionate about it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was much more passionate about how I could help a brand to succeed than I was my own products, just it just sitting better with me.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, if you're an agent, you're your agency the same feeling, yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's cool.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I I have found that um because I work on both sides, like we deliver services to brands, but they're indirectly we deal with the direct to consumer, and it's like a it's a different buyer.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I always found B2B buyers are more sophisticated, not that there's anything against a D2C buyer, it's just a different, different mindset.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what we were talking about earlier, it's like you you kind of give away the knowledge and sell the implementation, and that's that's the great part about uh doing what we do in the in the server space.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I think for me that I find that easier.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I find that you know, I can pick up the phone and have a conversation with someone and feel like I can have an impact on their journey to help them succeed.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Come back to the the sailing piece, is that sailing coaching me, you know?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: I I like seeing people develop and grow, and that's obviously developed into the business of seeing businesses in that area, you know, they bring a brand to Europe and then they slowly in you're like, yes, you know.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh as opposed to a brand where you're like, uh, you're fighting, you feel like you're fighting everyone, and when it's not your passion, you sort of dwindle, didn't you?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: With it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Easy to get burnt out.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway that's pretty cool.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting too.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I look at uh our business, like I'm I'm just a coach.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I coach, I coach my team, we coach them up or we coach them out.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the philosophy.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um on that note, though, so let's jump into the main topic.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, how e-commerce brands can span expand internationally without adding complexity.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And my first question for you for brands new to international expansion, what does it actually mean to become a global e-commerce business?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I think there's several things that you know going global is an amazing opportunity for brands.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: But it does come with some hurdles to overcome.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, you've got to be doing it for the right reasons in the first place.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, some of those reasons might be that the brand has plateaued where it currently is, it's natural for it to go overseas.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to develop new products.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: It could be the need to protect your brand overseas.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the factory's making the product in somewhere else in Asia potentially, and you're selling your products in the US, but no one's selling them in Europe.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: There's a huge amount of protection of brand, but for a lot of uh brand owners, you know, scal comes from looking at new markets, new opportunities.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's not necessarily just about growing in the home market because the opportunities come when you're actually in new markets.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: And what we we we tend to find is that you it's like looking at a piece of content online on TikTok or Instagram, and you look at someone's TikTok or Instagram, they've had like 300 views, 300 views, 10,000 views, 300 views, a thousand views.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Then you go to let's say that's TikTok, you then go to Instagram, and the ones that didn't perform on Instagram or TikTok perform on Instagram, and vice versa.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: And what we tend to find with brands that expand is they've got like this hero product, they sell really well in their home market, and that tends to translate really well in some countries, not all.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: But it's identifying which ones to do, but then what you find is is that actually the one you think is going to be the golden goose, like the the one product that's gonna actually go.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: But it sometimes doesn't, you know, and it's really interesting.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: So you know, uh expansion into new markets is thinking about starting a new business again.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: When most brand owners start uh an e-commer brand, they don't make any money for three years.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: So you know, you've got this process of you buy some products, sell them, reinvest in stock, and the process goes on.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like uh, you could argue that some of us, you know, some brands never get out of that cycle, but actually the the process of expansion is exactly the same.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you've you've got to be in it for the long run.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a get rich quick scheme, it's not, oh, I can send my products to Europe and they'll they'll they'll they'll suddenly you know make me a billionaire.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, likewise going to North America, you know, whether you know with we're states-based here, but like you know, if you're European going to the States or Canada or Mexico or Australia or India, you know, going to all of those locations that comes with its pitfalls and it's amazingness.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: The other side, which is my favorite bit, and this is my favorite bit, is that when you expand into a new market, it gives you an opportunity to go there.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: And nice, you know, you it becomes a it becomes a business expense, which is a really nice way of doing things.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: And if you want to travel, it's a great way of doing it.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and actually sometimes you've got to feel the culture and feel those things sometimes.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I'm saying, um yeah, and probably 80% of the brands we work with haven't done that.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, like why not?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you want to go and travel and see new things, what great way of the business to fund that.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's the better, best part about being an e-commerce entrepreneur.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: We um we do uh events and we'll take the whole family and they'll, you know, I gotta work the events, but they'll go enjoy the location and and share pictures with me.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like one of the nice things you can do.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's an awesome, awesome benefit.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: You you mentioned a lot about it international.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about global and what does it mean and really what that opportunity is, which is really exciting.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: How do I know if it's right for me?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I heard a lot about like, oh, we've plateaued.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you always have to plateau to consider international expansion?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: What are some either KPIs or metrics that you look at that you're like, okay, this business is right, right, and ready to be in Europe, for example?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: So the first thing is like any business, there's no rush.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Patience is critical.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: The brands that succeed in expansion are ones that are doing at least five million in the home market.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: First thing.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: Secondly, they've got the resource and the capital to make it work.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: And what I mean by capital and resources, the resource is someone who's going to drive it forwards internally.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: They don't have to be focusing on that full-time, although it does help, but they need someone who's going to champion it.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that typically shouldn't be the founder.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because the founder should be the one that wants to do it 100%, but they shouldn't be the one driving the growth because they can't manage their own business internally in one country, let alone do it in another.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm yeah, they're also doing a great job in their home market, but you can't spread yourself too thin unless they've extracted themselves out of the business in which they could, right?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that piece of it needs a resource.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: The second thing is they need capital, it's not going to come to you free.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: There's going to be an investment in the expansion.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that it's you know, yes, you need to find some partners that are going to do the services for you, but outside that, you're going to need capital to buy the products.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to need to need capital to generate demand for your products.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that's typically going to come in the form of some form of paid ads in some way.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: So typically they need to be doing five million with resource and capital in order to make that work.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the sort of fundamentals that we look at.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now, typically, they should have worked with a warehouse before, and because they're not going to, if they've got their own warehouse in in the US that they're using, that's great.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: But actually, when they go abroad, they're not going to have that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, understanding of logistics outside of their home market, and they need to find a partner that can enable that.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: But if they've worked with a 3PL, that's a really good way of uh of understanding because they know what are 3PL demands of a brand.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: And outside of that, they need to have seen growth overseas.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Now, typically a good way of doing that is if they're if they've got their own website, they can you put you sell you overseas internationally and see where demand is coming from.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's a nice way of doing it.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they could throw like a landing page up and just run some ads to see how much sales they get, pretty much, and then from there they'll have an indication of which markets have the most opportunity.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: We need you need to see that you we we call it um you know finding new frontiers, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Exploring the market.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: You need to find ways of trying to find where the market is going to be best sit.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: But the point was really around how do you know when you're ready.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like yes, plateauing is one way, but fast growth brands also are really interesting because what happens with fast growth brands is they they expand really quickly in one market, then it's like, okay, do oh no, someone else is selling an exact replica of our product in another country.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: So there's that, and I talked about that protection earlier.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's about how you protect your brands internationally without going pop.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: The problem is with fast growth brands is capital.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, the ones that we see succeed tend to be ones that start thinking about fundraising in some way.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: But the problem with fundraising typically is that they go on this fast trajectory, but they end up you burning out somewhere along that journey.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, there's a real delicate balance of that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: So the question comes how do you expand profitably with the right structure and sequence?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: That means it just works without going pop.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned the investment.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Being the big part of it.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering, you know, if I'm a five million dollar e-commerce brand, um, are we talking like fifty to a hundred thousand dollars just to get products listed overseas without advertising?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is that like appropriate or is that way way too high, way too low?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Way too high.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Way too high.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, good.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Way too high.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: There's the good news.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: So you I think an expansion with the right partner, right, is typically going to be say 15,000.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking annually here, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: To work with a partner, and this is outside of 3 PL costs, um, and you know, marketing, stuff like that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right, but to work with partners is gonna cost you circa 15 to 60k, right?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Depending on how you want to do that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: Now, 15k gets would would be a you know would get you set up and and get you sorted, typically in three countries, which is about right.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: But uh you then you then got uh the cost of the goods.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: So now what what we tend to have is is you uh let's say they're doing five million in the home market, they're doing five million in five million dollars in the US, and you let let's let's let's assume that in Q1 they've done a million dollars and they've got yeah, with with two million in Q4.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so they're doing a million roughly.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: So what we then tend to say is okay, for a first expansion, you know, which is the first country to go into what's the right which is the right sequence to do it in, you know, I we typically say send 30-ish percent of what you've done in Q1, right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: So 300 grand's worth of stock, let's say, right?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, which would typically get you for the first six months.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Typically.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you're stocking up for six months.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the investment, sure, some of it, it sounds like a very small portion is actually with the agency and the VAT fees and all that other stuff.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Really, the biggest expense is having enough inventory in that international warehouse to support growth for sounds like six months is kind of your target.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's interesting.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: And you can do you can have three months with three months more on the water, no problem.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um because you don't really know, you know, with the best models in the world, you don't really know how much you're gonna sell.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and what we what we've got is we can use what we know has worked, and we can say, well, based on our experience having worked with 5,000 sellers, this is this is what you should do.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Now that's no guarantee that it's like that financial advice, you know, past past uh you know um you know success is no guarantee of future success type approach, but it's a really good gauge of what they should or could do.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: So actually the big bit is in inventory rather than you know the cost of the service, but you've then got to ship the products, you've then got to stick them in a 3PL, you've then got Amazon costs or you know, ad costs if you're on a you know Shopify or a D2C site.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: So there are other costs that are going to cost you in there, but lots of businesses have a business plan, but they don't have an expansion strategy, and part of the business plan is oh, launching the UK, and it's like it's like one line on this you know 10-page document.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that one line needs its own business plan, its own expansion strategy, because without its own strategy and its own resource, it tends to fall flat.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you think the energy that people put into their brand to make it a success in their home market, it takes a lot of the founders' time, resource, and energy.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yet when they go overseas, they don't put the same energy and time and effort into it, and then they're like, Well, it didn't work, it didn't work because you didn't treat it in the same way.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I I could see that too, because you almost take it for granted.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds so much easier to be like, just go launch in the UK, not realizing all the steps that are required.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned something about like having a good strategy, and this is really interesting.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: What makes a good launch strategy?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Are we tying it to a sales goal?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is it uh units measured?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is it profitability?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, like what you're gonna craft the strategy.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's in a good strategy?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm trying to build this myself, what are the considerations?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so well, the first thing is that you need to do is to explore the market, right?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: You need to identify where the best opportunities are.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you that isn't about launching on three marketplaces, two platforms, and TikTok in the UK, Germany, Canada, and Mexico.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not about that.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's about finding what's the where the biggest and best wins are going to be, and then strategically taking one step at a time.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: So let's say, for example, you're an Amazon seller and a D2C seller in in the US, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: You've got your own website, Shopify, let's say it's on Shopify, and you've got Amazon.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: When you expand, you could you could launch both Amazon and your Shopify store in the UK, Germany, the Netherlands, France, Italy, and Spain, right?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: The downside to that is you can't learn everything that quick.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: You can't understand the data and the metrics and put time and effort into one.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: So successful expansion strategies tend to look like let's launch one marketplace or platform at once.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: So let's take that example.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we would say, well, let's launch in the UK on Amazon first, because it's probably the simplest and easiest in most cases, right?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: So in Q1, we're going to launch on Amazon in the UK.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: And what we're going to do is we're going to use that as a test bed to identify some of the keywords that are working.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to identify, you know, where what sort of volume we're looking at, what products are resonating, and use that as a you know, we've done the research through our explore section first already, but let's really dig into that a little bit deeper to see if that actually is resonating, right?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then in Q2, let's launch the website.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we're not doing both at the same time.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because what we can then say is, oh, products also sold on Amazon.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because if no one's heard of your brand and they find your website, there's a chance they may look at it and think, I don't know if I trust this or not, right?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: So actually, by saying also sold on Amazon would also give some credibility to the site in the early days.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: So if you think Q1, Amazon, Q2 website in the UK only, well, actually, then it's like, well, I'll tell you what, Q3, why don't we launch in Germany?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Let's get Germany Amazon set up, Amazon Germany set up.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: Then let's launch, translate the whole thing and put it into a Shopify in Germany.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: So in that first year, you haven't literally done everything.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: You're just taking small steps to review the data and understand the metrics that make a difference in the region.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: And the same could be for Canada and Mexico.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: The process is the same, but what we tend to do is launch everywhere, do everything.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: When actually what we should be doing is understanding the market, swapping the culture and the wording that's working, because what works on US sites doesn't work in the UK sites.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: And whilst we all speak English, English, I'd like to add, uh but but what you we there are things that are different.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: Your culture lands differently, you know, there are words that are different, and we've got to get out of subtle differences to really make that work because it's not oh, just just send it across and hope it works.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so there's there's like a a rhythm and a sequence to making the success work because once you then start doing those things, you can then go deeper in those.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I like that a lot.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: I like too that's the it's the pre-research, and what you brought up earlier really resonates.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's based on historical data.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Past success does not guarantee future success.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then we actually get the products in market, and now you're testing your hypotheses with actual data, and then based on that, you're pivoting.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also like the building Brock approach.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how many brands we've worked with that just want it all right away.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you get started, you realize like it's it's a lot to apply for five VATs and to get all that paperwork.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a supplement brand to get all the certifications and translations, it it is a it's a lot of work, which is why companies like uh like yours, Andy, exist.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so this was pretty interesting.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: If there are there any other so we talked about the roadmap, we talked about having a strategy, doing marketplace research is a big part of it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything you left at?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything I haven't asked about international expansion you'd like to share with the audience here today?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think that what what we've learned from 5,000 sellers is that there's a there's a specific process you need to go through to go through expansion.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just uh you stick throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's there is a proper sequence.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: So the first thing you need to do is to explore the market, right?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: Understand based on current data, current research, current SKUs, what would resonate the best in which market and have the biggest return on the investment initially.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes that's not always the biggest market, it might be the market that's underserved.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it doesn't have to be the biggest market because the biggest market is most competitive.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: So you need to explore the market, right?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: The second thing you need to do is get the compliance strategy right.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: You talked about supplements as a great example, you know, there's two types of compliance there's tax and product compliance.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: So tax compliance may be sales tax or nexus in the US, to understand that.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: In Europe it's VAT value-added tax, and different parts of the world have their own structures.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: But the best way to look at it is if I'm gonna sell my product in a in another country, the government's probably gonna want to charge me a thank you price for that.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: No one likes paying tax, but the bottom line is we've all got to pay it.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: So there's gonna be a tax to pay, and then making sure the products are compliant.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: So that's explore compliance.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: Get the yeah, the third thing is you need to make sure you've got a dependable supply chain.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: The biggest mistake most brands make is that they're so focused on Instagram, revenue, and selling products that they forget a brand isn't one in selling stuff online, it's lost in the boring day-to-day pool of running a business in the operations.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: So having a dependable supply chain is crucial to the success of the brand and any expansion.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: So you've got explore, compliance, and logistics, the three core things, right?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: The fourth thing is on the channel, making sure that you've got the ability to sell on the right channel in the right country in the right region.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: So Amazon isn't the biggest uh marketplace throughout the world, right?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: It is worldwide, it's not in each country, so it's understanding where else you could sell, and then yeah, it's having the right strategy.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: So that we've got something what we call the global expansion pathway, right?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're gonna expand, you need to follow a sequence and a structure to make sure that you do it successfully, and it's been born out of 5,000 sellers, of which a lot of them haven't succeeded because they haven't followed the right sequence.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: I like the everything you just shared.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, from the compliance being either tax compliant or product, which are both very important to sell and continue selling in a category or uh specific territory.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: When you mentioned launching, is it do you find with most brands you work with that they generally will use Amazon as the first um path to get to the marketplace before opening up Shopify and then expanding their marketing channels from there?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you found it's it's six in one, half dozen in the other?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: It depends on what they already do in their home market.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: So if they're already on Amazon in the home market, it's really simple because you can click a button and it all just transfers, right?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's no development cost, there's no additional URLs, there's no additional SEO, there's no additional GEO, there's like all of that is taken.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: So if they're already on Amazon, it's a really nice, easy win.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: But if they're not on Amazon and they're on a Shopify store, then actually they they just start with Shopify because or or their own platform, because trying to learn Amazon isn't the right strategy.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's about doing what you do well in your home market and and and doubling down on that whilst understanding the needs and the requirements in the region.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the key bit is if they're on Amazon, then use Amazon.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not on Amazon, don't think I've got to go on Amazon.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like just to get over it, just doesn't work.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like literally think about where am I currently succeeding, and and actually, you might be you might have a bigger D2C site than Amazon in the US, let's say, but actually to turn on Amazon in Europe, UK, in the right sequence, could give you the opportunity to just make that start trickling a lot quicker.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So uh when it comes to Shopify, you mentioned opening another website.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is just for my knowledge.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you actually have to have a whole new website, or will it know when I put in shipping information to ship from a UK fulfillment center, for example?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: So uh two things to that.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: One, you can get apps that plug into the into your current site that'll enable you to be able to you know basically switch it from dollars to pounds or euros, like you'll all by the geolocation of where they're based, it'll come up in pounds.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: The last thing you want is you know, being on here in the UK and and you get dollars, you're like, oh, they just crash off, right?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and then fulfillment would then be in a local warehouse, no problems.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: But in order to get the best SEO and geo, then actually the best way to do that is if you've got a you know will.com website that you're fulfilling from, or you're you're you need will.co.uk, will.itde.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: Now, obviously, you may not have the the the ability to have all of the URLs with the right endings, but what that does is it enables the best SEO practice that we've got at the moment.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, best practice at the moment is to have independent URLs, but the same website, all skinned exactly the same.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: But when they go to when they're in the UK, they go to.co.uk.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: When they're in the US, they go to.com.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, because you can SEO each individual site, which gives you huge upsides in your in your organic traffic, which is what we want to try and generate.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, better to have a localized site, and that kind of makes sense too, knowing uh a little bit I know about SEO.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I got a quick story.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I work with a brand that um they scaled well beyond eight figures on Amazon.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: They were a huge brand.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I met the owner only once or twice.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I worked with his marketing team, but he's telling me a story how he uh he when he originally took the URL, he just got the dot com and he didn't get any of the other variations on it, thinking I'm gonna save a hundred bucks now.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't anticipate on the brand growing the way it did because he had so many businesses that launched and failed that this one took off.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so he ended up paying thousands of dollars three or four years later to go buy all those domains.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes back, he'd be like, I saved a hundred bucks to spend 10k now.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I always tell people I work with in different groups grab, just grab the domain now.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Don't wait.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably pretty inexpensive.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's a really good point.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: Totally, I totally get that.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't need one in every single country, but you do need.com, dot co.uk, dot DE.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, probably need Australia, India, maybe.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there are some key ones that you should think about.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that's a great story.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, man.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Nendo, let's let's let's lean over.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about expandedly in our last few minutes.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love when other service providers come on come to the show, onboarding is like the crux.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like how you set the stage for your customers.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's also how like um that experience will translate for the rest of the time you work with a brand or client.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, for you, if if I'm I'm thinking about working with Expandly and we're gonna do some business and we're gonna expand internationally, what does the first 30, 60, 90 days look like working together?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Great question.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, expandly is a all-in-one SaaS global expansion management tool.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: You can use Expandly to click a button and expand to a new region, and it'll do all of the compliance, all of the logistics, all of the listings, inventory management, everything all in one place.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: So think of it as your one partner that you need for global operations outside your home market.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the way to look at it.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, whether you're going to the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, you can use one platform for all of those as you develop and grow.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, what is the first 30, 60, 90 days?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we're in this unique position where when you expand to a new region, there's one thing we're typically reliant on, and that's governments.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: And when you're launching in a new market, you tend to need to get the government to set up the business from a tax perspective in one form or another.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_03: So, dependent on the region in which you go to will depend how quickly that is.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, the first thing is that when we you first get a band in that brand in that first 30 days, the first thing we're looking at is how do we put together a global expansion blueprint, a strategy that enables the business to succeed when they expand?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: So, how can we take all of our knowledge from the last 5,000 clients we've used and say, tell me about your brand, what is it you're trying to achieve, and let's work out what that strategy looks like.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: So the first 30 days is typically understanding, exploring the market and getting an understanding of where we're going to expand to first.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, we can do that relatively quickly.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: We do that in a couple of different ways, but we do that first.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: And at the same time, once we've identified those, is in the background what we're doing is working with the governments to get the business compliant from a tax perspective in those regions.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: So that's behind the scenes.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then you know that first 30 days is about getting set up in the region, getting listings on on into expandly, not necessarily live in each region just yet, and getting the products compliant with the region in which you're going to.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: So we're building out a strategy and we're getting the business and the products compliant, month one.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: Month two, what we're doing is we're looking at okay, we need shipping plans.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: We need to order stock, we need to start getting stock ready to ship into a new region as quickly as we possibly can.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: So products are being made.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: We can do that in the first couple of weeks to try and get some stock quantities ordered, and at that point, you're doing two things when they're ready to ship in in that second month, you're doing depending on the volume you want to send, and most of our clients are doing two things they're sending a pallet, air freight, typically, right?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: And they're sending the rest by C.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because in order to maximize your margins, you need to send by C.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to be sending via via air.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: But but by sending a pallet, half a pallet, yeah, but let's say a pallet via air, what it means is is that you can get the stock into the region and you can start selling the products.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: You'll sell that that pallet by the time the next pallet, the next can by the time the container arrives.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: So what that means is you can start instead of waiting for the container to arrive, it go into a 3PL, then wait for everything to get like a shipping plan into Amazon, start selling things D to C.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's just too long.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, what we want to do is to get a palette goods, start selling them, and start working out what's working.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: We use that first pallet as a test case.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: So imagine that 60 days, then the next 30 days, up to 90 days, is making sure we're selling on you know on the one platform and one country that we started.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: And because you want to you want it to expand, but the longer it goes on, the less excited you are about the expansion.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's it's about keeping that smile on your face through that journey, yeah.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, making sure that we're we're giving you what you need when you need, but on the understanding that governments take time to business compliant.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: So we want to keep your enthusiasm high and we want to keep most um momentum going, but in that process, we've also got to wait for the governments to give us the green light.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a real balance between those, and trying to manage those expectations is critical, but we Have a whole onboarding integrations team.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: We have an event process that we take people along to get people to build out their expansion plans.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, so that's the first 90 days.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome, man.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love the breakdown too.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it aligns so much about our conversation today.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Month one's the planning strategy, month two is your testing hypotheses, you're executing.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're seeding and pre-marketing.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I would think about that first palette.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do we build audiences?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then month three, it's like test what's working, what's not.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it's an evolution.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: To your point, the evergreen product that's crushing in the US might not sell as well in the UK.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: There might be better opportunity in your second or third line of products that will actually perform in those marketplaces.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that was super helpful.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing I want to ask, and only because I have experience with this and I don't want sellers to be misled, 30 to 90 days is totally reasonable to launch in an international marketplace when you already have a VAT, correct?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've sat and waited on VATs for months, uh, for example.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to make sure that we're uh that that is a factual statement, Andy.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's totally right.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the reason I talk about having a sequence and a process, you know, I talked about earlier, you know, you launching the UK first, then go to Germany second.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like Germany, typically at the moment, is the biggest pain we've got at the moment, and that can easily take six months.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: Easily.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: The UK, we can probably do most cases we can do between 14 and 30 days.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: In most cases, okay, right?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: So so you're right to to flag that because you're totally right.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: And the question if you've expanded before, I can guarantee that your that will take longer.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason before, interesting, yeah, because some people do it before, maybe with a different brand.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: Doesn't have to be the same brand, but if they've done it before and the name is already in the system, and they've already expanded and and maybe not closed it properly or left you know, not taking a VAT, right?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Just because you're doing it with a different brand, that's where we typically get held up, typically, not every time, but typically and you the the requirements change every day, so you're trying to keep on top of government thinking when they don't tell you what they're thinking.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's a little bit difficult.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: So but you're you're totally right to flag it because every country is completely different.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason we talk about a sequence to do those things is we used to do you talked about you getting back registered in Spain, Italy, France, Germany, and we used to do all of those, do all of them.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: Then what brands do is they're like, Well, I won't expand till I've got all of them.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: But the problem with that is you could be waiting a year to get them all.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's it's nonsense.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: Let's let's and by us giving you a process, a structure, and a sequence, almost the architecture of success.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: What enables us to say is, well, we're probably going to get the UK first, so let's get the UK up and running.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: We know Germany is going to take three, six months.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: So let's let's just do that in the background because what happens is is that if the VAT doesn't come, they're like, Where's our VAT?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: You're rubbish, you know, it's just the government, there's nothing we can do about it.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: But if we say, well, we we look, we if they're excited because the UK has started selling products, they've forgotten about Germany.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: And we can do that in the background because we're keeping them, we're yeah, we're keeping the brands entertained, for the want of a better word, right?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: But not because we want to keep them entertained, because it's the right sequence in which to do it.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they need to see action items.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: If it's always like work in progress, eventually you're gonna be like, What am I paying for over here?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes sense you guys have that sequence.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Andy, this has been super informative.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: I learned so much about international expansion, and I really enjoyed our conversation today.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: You brought a wealth of knowledge and you shared it openly, so I appreciate it.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: With that being said, Andy, where can our audience come and find you?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: And note I'll have all links in the show notes below.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm really easy to find.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Andy G G for George Hooper, H W O P R.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the website.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: Personal website is Andy G Hooper.com.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: All the social handles are exactly the same, right?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: So, and WhatsApp has just started doing that, but please don't WhatsApp me.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um uh but uh all jokes aside, Andy G Hooper.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: And if you want to expand Lee, expand Lee.com.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: Really easy, uh, really simple.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Andy's information will be inside the show notes as well as Expand Lee website.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope if you guys need help, you reach out to Andy.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again for being on the show.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: That wraps up today's episode of Selling on Giants with Andy Hooper.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest takeaway from this conversation is that international expansion should be treated as a long-term business investment, not a quick way to add revenue.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: Andy explained that brands need more than demand in their home market.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: They need sufficient capital, dedicated internal resources, reliable logistics, and enough inventory to support several months of projected sales.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: We also covered why a sequential launch strategy is so important.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of entering several countries and channels all at once, brands can start with one market, test their assumptions, learn from the data, and build credibility before expanding further.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Andy's Four Pillars provides a clear framework.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Start by exploring the opportunity, address the tax and product compliance, establish the supply chain, and then execute an omnichannel strategy that fits the local market.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Another important point is that timeliness varies.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: A UK launch may move forward within a few weeks, while markets such as Germany can require several months of regulatory preparation.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: The brands that succeed are the ones that plan for those realities rather than trying to rush the process.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: To learn more about Andy and Expandly, check out the links in the show notes below.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: Expandly helps brands manage international expansions, orders, inventory listings, and multi-channel operations with greater control.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you found this episode helpful, please follow, subscribe, and leave a review on Selling on Giants.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: It helps more e-commerce operators find the show and keeps these conversations going.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on the Selling on Giants podcast.