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#HURDLEMOMENT: What To Know About Seasonal Depression · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: Living in a state of denial means you are living
0:03
Speaker 1: in a state of self sabotage, and until you decide
0:07
Speaker 1: to own what's happening for you, you will stay stuck.
0:24
Speaker 2: Hey, hey, Emily Abadi here, what's going on? Hurdlers? You
0:28
Speaker 2: are listening to another episode of Hurdle, a wileness focused
0:33
Speaker 2: podcast reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes to top
0:36
Speaker 2: experts and industry CEOs about their highest hies, toughest moments,
0:40
Speaker 2: and everything in between. We all go through hurdles in life,
0:44
Speaker 2: and my goal through these discussions is to empower you
0:47
Speaker 2: to better navigate yours and move with intention so that
0:50
Speaker 2: you can stride towards your own big potential and of
0:53
Speaker 2: course have some fun along the way. For today's episode
0:59
Speaker 2: of Hurdle, moment when I am chatting with Nina Bee.
1:02
Speaker 2: She is a self care and mental health educator, among
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Speaker 2: many other things, a writer, a founder, a speaker, a therapist, oh,
1:12
Speaker 2: my goodness, the list goes on. She's got over ten
1:15
Speaker 2: years of critical experience and a passion for mental health
1:19
Speaker 2: and social justice that shines over on her Instagram page,
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Speaker 2: which is where I first found Nina. I was so
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Speaker 2: flattered that she was willing to give me some time
1:31
Speaker 2: for today's episode to talk about a really important topic,
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Speaker 2: and that topic is seasonal depression. This is an episode
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Speaker 2: that has been requested by many of you, and I
1:42
Speaker 2: cannot think of a better expert to give us the
1:45
Speaker 2: lowdown on what seasonal depression really is, what are the
1:50
Speaker 2: symptoms and the signs, How do we know if it
1:53
Speaker 2: is depression versus let's say, something that many of us
1:56
Speaker 2: call the winter blues. What's the best way to go
2:00
Speaker 2: about treating it and what those options entail, And how
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Speaker 2: to talk to a family member or a loved one
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Speaker 2: about a struggle that they may be having. Nina also
2:09
Speaker 2: gets really open and honest about her experience with therapy,
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Speaker 2: how she herself first started therapy with the encouragement and
2:17
Speaker 2: love from her friends and family. Plus, she weighs in
2:21
Speaker 2: on the importance of honesty and also the importance of
2:24
Speaker 2: writing things down. How keeping track of your signs, of
2:27
Speaker 2: your symptoms, of what you're going through via journaling can
2:31
Speaker 2: be a super helpful tool within your toolbox. I literally
2:36
Speaker 2: could have talked to her for hours. It's no wonder
2:39
Speaker 2: why she is on the advisory committee for Selena Gomez's
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Speaker 2: media company Wondermind, as well as the chief behavioral officer
2:48
Speaker 2: over at One and One Life. Make sure you're following
2:52
Speaker 2: along with Hurdle over on the socials. It is at
2:55
Speaker 2: Hurdle Podcast. I'm myself am over at Emily a Body
2:59
Speaker 2: and still hunting your listener questions. So ask me a
3:03
Speaker 2: question and it could be featured in an upcoming episode
3:06
Speaker 2: of Five Minute Friday. The link to ask me a question,
3:11
Speaker 2: leave me a voice message is in the show notes.
3:15
Speaker 2: That's it for now. With that, let's get to it.
3:17
Speaker 2: Let's get to hurdling today. I am chatting with Mina Bee.
3:41
Speaker 2: She's an author, a speaker, a therapist, a mental health educator.
3:45
Speaker 2: She sits on the mental health advisory committee for Selena
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Speaker 2: Gomez's media company, wonder Mind, and she's also the chief
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Speaker 2: behavioral officer for One in One Life. How are you
3:56
Speaker 2: doing today?
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Speaker 3: I'm doing well. How are you? I'm so good.
4:00
Speaker 2: I'm also a little confused. And this is actually going
4:03
Speaker 2: to get us into our conversation today because the day
4:07
Speaker 2: that we're recording this, I think it's maybe sixty two
4:10
Speaker 2: degrees outside. I was just out there. It's stunning. But
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Speaker 2: it's also February, so what is going on here? Next
4:18
Speaker 2: week it's going to be like two degrees.
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Speaker 3: It's crazy.
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Speaker 2: We are going to get into a conversation today about
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Speaker 2: seasonal effective disorder and how we can cope with that, which,
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Speaker 2: as I'm saying here, this weather is a roller coaster
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Speaker 2: within itself. But before we get into the specifics and
4:38
Speaker 2: you give us all the intel, I want to learn
4:40
Speaker 2: a little bit about you. So where do we even begin.
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Speaker 2: Growing up, did you have an interest in getting into
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Speaker 2: a line of work where you would be helping people
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Speaker 2: in the capacity that you are now?
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Speaker 3: I did.
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Speaker 1: Growing up. I wanted to help people, put in different mediums,
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Speaker 1: so I wouldn't necessarily say I always knew from che
5:00
Speaker 1: wildhood I wanted to be a therapist, but for me
5:02
Speaker 1: helping people look like I remember, I wanted to be
5:04
Speaker 1: a teacher at one point. I remember I wanted to
5:07
Speaker 1: get into the fashion industry at one point. So there
5:11
Speaker 1: were a lot of different things that I wanted to do.
5:13
Speaker 1: It really wasn't until undergrad that I realized that social
5:18
Speaker 1: work was the direction I wanted to go in. For undergrad,
5:23
Speaker 1: I did study business management and I had a sociologist
5:26
Speaker 1: professor who was a social worker and her class was amazing.
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Speaker 1: The things that she shared in her class was amazing,
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Speaker 1: And I think that experience is what really led me
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Speaker 1: to decide I wanted to get into this field.
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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, wow, So having someone that was really influential
5:45
Speaker 2: for you was kind of the catalyst for you to
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Speaker 2: do that in her inquisition as to what you wanted
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Speaker 2: to do and how you wanted to help people.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, growing up, I did struggle with my own mental
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Speaker 1: health issues. I struggled with anxiety and depression, and I
6:00
Speaker 1: didn't know that as a child. Of course, it wasn't
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Speaker 1: until I started going to therapy myself that I started
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Speaker 1: to learn language to really understand what mental health was
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Speaker 1: and understand different diagnoses and different things like that. But
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Speaker 1: when I was an undergrad, I think because I had
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Speaker 1: that sociologist professor who was able to speak to mental
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Speaker 1: health and also include that sociologist lens, that is what
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Speaker 1: really helped me realize how impactful this field was. And
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Speaker 1: that is when I decided that I would most likely
6:34
Speaker 1: go on to grad school to pursue social work. And
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Speaker 1: that's exactly what I did.
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Speaker 2: And if you don't mind sharing, was there a specific
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Speaker 2: incident that influenced you to finally try out therapy for yourself.
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Speaker 1: I think what started to happen for me. So I
6:50
Speaker 1: was twenty two when I started therapy for the first time,
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Speaker 1: and it was this slow progression of me engaging in
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Speaker 1: a lot of toxic behaviors as well as self sabotage,
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Speaker 1: and it was getting to a point where my friends
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Speaker 1: as well as my mother and people who were in
7:09
Speaker 1: my life were noticing a shift in my behavior and
7:13
Speaker 1: they honestly were calling me out for it. And I
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Speaker 1: was very defensive for quite some time until I realized,
7:19
Speaker 1: I'm not happy, and it makes sense that the people
7:24
Speaker 1: around me are noticing a change in my behavior because
7:28
Speaker 1: I just wasn't happy at all. So I think that
7:32
Speaker 1: was the catalyst to make me realize I probably need
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Speaker 1: some support that my friends and my family can't give me.
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Speaker 1: And so that is when I decided that maybe I'll
7:42
Speaker 1: take the sleep and see a therapist. And I'm really
7:46
Speaker 1: really happy that I did that, because I had a
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Speaker 1: lot of trauma that clearly wasn't resolved. I didn't know
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Speaker 1: how to resolve it on my own, and I realized
7:55
Speaker 1: the way I was coping was maladaptive. It was not
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Speaker 1: helping me grow as a person. It was just keeping
8:01
Speaker 1: me stuck in my pain and my coping skills. Is
8:04
Speaker 1: what my family and friends were calling out, like you're
8:07
Speaker 1: doing this and you're doing that, and it doesn't fit
8:10
Speaker 1: who you are. And I think going to therapy is
8:14
Speaker 1: what really helped me to, like again, process by trauma,
8:17
Speaker 1: but also develop healthier coping mechanisms that allowed me to
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Speaker 1: grow and evolve the way I desire to.
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Speaker 2: How did it feel for you when they first started,
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Speaker 2: as you put it, calling you out for the behavior,
8:32
Speaker 2: did you act defensive? Oh?
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Speaker 3: Most likely?
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Speaker 1: Most likely, especially younger me, my attitude at that age most.
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Speaker 3: Likely got defensive.
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Speaker 1: I definitely can call myself out and say I had
8:46
Speaker 1: a very bad attitude and I was a young person,
8:49
Speaker 1: and so you can tell me anything and I would
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Speaker 1: go from zero to sixty. I would shut down. I
8:55
Speaker 1: would get a little verbally aggressive and verbally combative. So
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Speaker 1: I do know that the people in my life we
9:03
Speaker 1: were very very close. So there were times where I
9:07
Speaker 1: had to really process and reflect and say, like, you know,
9:09
Speaker 1: this isn't some friend that I just met last week
9:12
Speaker 1: or someone who barely knows me. This is like my
9:14
Speaker 1: childhood friend who has watched me grow and who has
9:17
Speaker 1: watched me deal with some traumas in my life. So
9:20
Speaker 1: if she's calling me out and then my mom is
9:23
Speaker 1: calling me out and this person is calling me out,
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Speaker 1: I do value their opinion. So, after you know, throwing
9:29
Speaker 1: a tantrum, I then had to sit and self reflect
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Speaker 1: and really think about who these people are to me
9:37
Speaker 1: and the fact that I do value their opinion. And
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Speaker 1: I can also self reflect and recognize that, like I
9:44
Speaker 1: said before, I wasn't happy, So maybe by behaviors are
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Speaker 1: translating in a way that are unhealthy and I'm just
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Speaker 1: not noticing it. And so to answer your question, yes,
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Speaker 1: I definitely was that person who would go from zero
9:59
Speaker 1: to sixty and has taken a lot of healing as
10:01
Speaker 1: well to learn how to throw less tantrums as an adult.
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Speaker 1: But I'm very happy that they had the willingness to
10:07
Speaker 1: sit with me and be patient with me through my
10:11
Speaker 1: different emotions.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's so impressive that you have that
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Speaker 2: level of awareness to say, as you so eloquently put it,
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Speaker 2: like these are people that have been in my life
10:23
Speaker 2: for some time. This isn't a new friend who doesn't
10:26
Speaker 2: really know me. These are people that know me to
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Speaker 2: my core. Would you say in your work that that
10:33
Speaker 2: concern can be a reason why people don't speak to
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Speaker 2: those that they care about about the potential for going
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Speaker 2: to therapy, the concern that they may not take it well,
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Speaker 2: they may not react well to that heightened level of awareness.
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Speaker 1: Yes, I think that hinders a lot of relationships, and
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Speaker 1: that hinders honesty and a lot of relationships. A lot
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Speaker 1: of people are scared to speak the true truth to
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Speaker 1: their friends and to their family because they don't want
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Speaker 1: to deal with the repercussions of it, because most people
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Speaker 1: don't want to hear the truth. And I think that,
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Speaker 1: you know, it's difficult when you also are dealing with
11:14
Speaker 1: someone who has a history of maybe being defensive and
11:18
Speaker 1: has a history of lashing out, and so you already
11:21
Speaker 1: are aware of some patterns this person has, so it's
11:25
Speaker 1: like do I want to trigger them, do I want
11:27
Speaker 1: to go there with them? Or last time someone said
11:29
Speaker 1: something to them, it's just how they reacted. So it
11:32
Speaker 1: can definitely be hard, and I always encourage people to say, like,
11:38
Speaker 1: you know, it is a hard thing to process, and
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Speaker 1: the truth is sometimes very hard to manage and to
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Speaker 1: take in and it's okay to tell the truth, but
11:47
Speaker 1: you might have to also recognize that people may not
11:50
Speaker 1: want to hear the truth, right, And so you did
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Speaker 1: your role as a friend of speaking up and saying, hey,
11:56
Speaker 1: I really want to sit with this and explore with
11:59
Speaker 1: you what's happened, because these are some things that I'm noticing,
12:02
Speaker 1: I have some concerns and they may not receive it well,
12:06
Speaker 1: but at least you can say I spoke up, and
12:09
Speaker 1: regardless of how they take it, that's their journey. It's
12:13
Speaker 1: up to them to decide when they want to face
12:15
Speaker 1: reality and when they want to make a change in
12:18
Speaker 1: their life, because that's what truth does. It opens our
12:21
Speaker 1: eyes to the things that need to be fixed, that
12:23
Speaker 1: need to be healed, that need to be changed, and
12:25
Speaker 1: some of us just aren't ready to do that. But
12:28
Speaker 1: regardless of it, being able to still be a supportive
12:31
Speaker 1: friend or family member, even partner does require you to
12:35
Speaker 1: be honest in your relationships. And when you are honest,
12:39
Speaker 1: it's just about owning and recognizing that people are still
12:42
Speaker 1: going to make the choices they.
12:43
Speaker 3: Want to make for themselves.
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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, wow, so powerful, and also reflecting back on you,
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Speaker 2: noticing that you weren't happy. And I even think that
12:55
Speaker 2: that sentence there, I wasn't happy. That is something that's
12:58
Speaker 2: even really hard for us us to admit to ourselves,
13:01
Speaker 2: right because we may want one thing, but that might
13:05
Speaker 2: not always be the reality. So doing that honest inner
13:08
Speaker 2: audit about how do I feel right now? Sometimes coming
13:12
Speaker 2: to terms with that is even harder than hearing it
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Speaker 2: from others.
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Speaker 1: Yes, it is, it absolutely is. I think for me
13:22
Speaker 1: the benefit was I was always a very intuitive person
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Speaker 1: and I consider myself an EmPATH, So I feel very
13:29
Speaker 1: deeply whether it's my emotions or someone else's emotions, and yeah,
13:34
Speaker 1: you know. And so because I was always in tune
13:38
Speaker 1: with my emotions, I noticed the ebb and flow of
13:42
Speaker 1: the different things that I would feel, and it was
13:45
Speaker 1: it was it kind of easy for me to own
13:48
Speaker 1: and recognize that there are certain things I want in
13:52
Speaker 1: life and what direction am I going in. I always
13:55
Speaker 1: had like a very hell bent driven attitude toward life.
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Speaker 1: There are things that I want and I'm going to
14:00
Speaker 1: go after it. And so I do feel like my
14:04
Speaker 1: benefit is that I always had the ability to reflect
14:08
Speaker 1: and ask myself, well, if this is the thing you want,
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Speaker 1: are you taking the actionable steps to get there. And
14:15
Speaker 1: I know I was young at the time, but because
14:18
Speaker 1: I have that way of thinking, that kind of helped
14:21
Speaker 1: me realize you are playing a role in your unhappiness
14:25
Speaker 1: because you're not getting the help that you need and
14:28
Speaker 1: you think you're coping. But like I said, when you
14:31
Speaker 1: do these things and you engage in these behaviors and
14:34
Speaker 1: you partake in these activities, how do you feel after
14:37
Speaker 1: you might have like that short term dopamine hit, But
14:40
Speaker 1: long term, how.
14:42
Speaker 3: Are you flourishing? How are you growing?
14:43
Speaker 1: And how are you getting closer to the life you
14:46
Speaker 1: say you deserve to have where you want to have.
14:49
Speaker 1: And so I'm grateful that I always had that ability
14:52
Speaker 1: to reflect that deeply at such a young age. And
14:55
Speaker 1: I do think being able to really sit with ourselves
14:59
Speaker 1: and process those things allows us to get a little unstuck,
15:03
Speaker 1: because a lot of us have a hard time owning
15:05
Speaker 1: that sometimes we are self sabotaging and sometimes we are
15:09
Speaker 1: engaging in self harm, and it's us that's really getting
15:12
Speaker 1: in the way of us being happy and doing better
15:15
Speaker 1: and having the things we want out of life. But
15:17
Speaker 1: until we own that and sit with it, we're gonna
15:20
Speaker 1: stay stuck. In whatever it is we're feeling, and for me,
15:23
Speaker 1: it was misery. So if I wanted to be happy,
15:25
Speaker 1: if I wanted to experience joy, I knew I needed
15:28
Speaker 1: to do something different, and that different thing was I
15:31
Speaker 1: needed to talk to someone because I.
15:32
Speaker 3: Was carrying years of pain.
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Speaker 1: Like I was twenty two and I started dealing with
15:38
Speaker 1: my childhood trauma since I was like seven eight years old,
15:41
Speaker 1: and it was a continued thing of trauma that I
15:43
Speaker 1: dealt with from teenage years up until young adulthood.
15:46
Speaker 3: So I had a lot of baggage.
15:48
Speaker 1: I had a lot of burdens on my back and
15:50
Speaker 1: I really needed an opportunity to just put them down
15:54
Speaker 1: and sort through them and grieve.
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Speaker 2: For someone who is hesitant on seeking out therapy, just
16:01
Speaker 2: seeking out this conversation and they say something like, well,
16:05
Speaker 2: I can just talk to my friends about it. What
16:08
Speaker 2: do you tell them?
16:10
Speaker 1: Well, the first thing I always say is your friend
16:11
Speaker 1: is not a therapist. I feel like we have to
16:14
Speaker 1: remind people that being a therapist is an occupation, right,
16:18
Speaker 1: And so if you break your ankle, are you going
16:20
Speaker 1: to call your friend and say, hey, can you come,
16:23
Speaker 1: you know, put a brace on my ankle, perform surgery
16:26
Speaker 1: on me. No, you're going to go to a doctor
16:28
Speaker 1: because that's an actual profession, and that is a professional
16:31
Speaker 1: who was equipped and has the knowledge and the skill
16:34
Speaker 1: set to be able to help you with your wounds.
16:37
Speaker 1: It's the same thing as a therapist. A therapist is
16:40
Speaker 1: a job, it is a profession, and so working with
16:44
Speaker 1: a therapist is not the same thing as working with
16:46
Speaker 1: your friend who has biases. Because they love you, they
16:49
Speaker 1: may not be able to tell you the truth. They
16:51
Speaker 1: also may not have the skill set to listen to
16:54
Speaker 1: you talk and say, you know, those the things you're
16:56
Speaker 1: sharing with me kind of sounds like some depressive symptoms.
17:00
Speaker 1: The things you're sharing with me kind of sounds like
17:02
Speaker 1: some unresolved trauma. That experience you talked about sounds very traumatic.
17:06
Speaker 1: I wonder if what you're dealing with is PTSD. Your
17:10
Speaker 1: friends may not have the insight to say, you know, right,
17:13
Speaker 1: right now, you're polarizing. You're dealing with polarizing thinking right
17:17
Speaker 1: They don't know the language and not saying that you
17:20
Speaker 1: have the jargon is what's healing you. But it's the
17:24
Speaker 1: knowledge around certain behaviors, signs, and symptoms that really helps
17:28
Speaker 1: us process with our clients what's happening for them. So
17:32
Speaker 1: I often do have to remind people, like I said,
17:35
Speaker 1: like a therapist is an occupation and they have the
17:38
Speaker 1: skill set, the training, and also the confidentiality piece I
17:42
Speaker 1: think is important because your friend, as much as you
17:45
Speaker 1: want your friend to keep information private, your friends are
17:49
Speaker 1: not bound by confidentiality, right, And so you don't want
17:53
Speaker 1: to ever end up in a situation where you're sharing
17:55
Speaker 1: something with the friend and you find out your business
17:57
Speaker 1: will spread, you know, amongst the family or amongst other people.
18:00
Speaker 1: But most importantly, I think what happens too A lot
18:05
Speaker 1: of people think their friends can be their therapists, and
18:08
Speaker 1: they get very angry and disappointed when their friend is
18:11
Speaker 1: unequipped to help them. And so you're going to someone
18:15
Speaker 1: saying I need advice about this thing, and you're walking
18:17
Speaker 1: away feeling frustrated, but your friend is not equipped. They
18:20
Speaker 1: don't have the skills, they don't have the knowledge to
18:23
Speaker 1: help you in that particular area of your life. And
18:26
Speaker 1: I think that's often the core thing I have to
18:28
Speaker 1: remind people, because you're getting upset and angry with a
18:31
Speaker 1: friend for literally not having the skill set and the
18:34
Speaker 1: knowledge to help you when there are actual professions, professionals
18:38
Speaker 1: who are equipped in skills to help you with this thing.
18:41
Speaker 1: So instead of burning out our friendships and instead of
18:45
Speaker 1: creating animosity and being angry with our friends for being unequipped,
18:49
Speaker 1: it's important for us to go to the people who
18:51
Speaker 1: are equipped, because, like I said, it's like calling up
18:53
Speaker 1: your friend and being angry that they don't know how
18:55
Speaker 1: to perform surgery on you.
18:57
Speaker 3: Is that really? Is that fear not?
19:00
Speaker 2: You know?
19:01
Speaker 3: So why do we do it in the capacity of
19:03
Speaker 3: mental health?
19:05
Speaker 1: You know?
19:05
Speaker 2: So?
19:05
Speaker 3: I do think.
19:06
Speaker 1: That's just the stuff that I try to tell people
19:09
Speaker 1: to really help them understand that it's nice to go
19:11
Speaker 1: to your friend every now and then for a check in.
19:14
Speaker 1: In between sessions, I'm talking to my friend and updating
19:17
Speaker 1: them about my life, or just sharing tips and tricks
19:20
Speaker 1: with my friends just to get guidance and advice. But
19:23
Speaker 1: the professional help you need needs to come from a professional.
19:27
Speaker 2: I can speak for me personally, I'd be curious about you.
19:30
Speaker 2: For me. Before I sought out therapy for the first time,
19:32
Speaker 2: two things kept me from doing so. One was obviously
19:36
Speaker 2: getting comfortable with the uncomfortable, so my comfort level it
19:39
Speaker 2: was easier to talk to a friend, and it was
19:41
Speaker 2: also free to talk to a friend. So these two
19:44
Speaker 2: massive hurdles to access or perhaps walking in the door
19:48
Speaker 2: where the thing that for so long prevented me from
19:51
Speaker 2: doing so.
19:53
Speaker 1: Yes, And I think that for me to speak on
19:56
Speaker 1: my end, you know, as a black woman, mental health
20:01
Speaker 1: is not something that's often talked about in my community.
20:04
Speaker 1: And if it is talked about, it's this thing of, well,
20:08
Speaker 1: you're being lazy when you say you're dealing with depression.
20:11
Speaker 1: It's just that you're not willing to go further. Or
20:14
Speaker 1: what is anxiety? Like everyone is scared of something and
20:18
Speaker 1: so you just got to deal with it and get
20:19
Speaker 1: over it. Like there's no such thing as debilitating anxiety,
20:23
Speaker 1: you know. So for me growing up in my household,
20:27
Speaker 1: I think my parents were more so ignorant to the
20:31
Speaker 1: full scheme of what mental health was. So I never
20:35
Speaker 1: necessarily heard them play into stigma as in you're lazy
20:38
Speaker 1: or you're this, or use those particular terms. But they
20:41
Speaker 1: did see mental health, particularly as a drug abuse issue
20:46
Speaker 1: or a homelessness issue. Outside of those two things. What's
20:50
Speaker 1: mental health?
20:51
Speaker 3: Like? What you're depressed? What the heck is depression? Like?
20:54
Speaker 3: What does that mean?
20:55
Speaker 2: Right?
20:56
Speaker 1: And so for me, I think what also so helped
21:00
Speaker 1: me get to the point where I saw a licensed
21:04
Speaker 1: therapist was because in high school, I just remember one
21:07
Speaker 1: day having like a mental breakdown in school and I
21:09
Speaker 1: was crying and I was just going through so much,
21:11
Speaker 1: and someone brought me to the guidance counselor and I
21:14
Speaker 1: started seeing my guidance counselor every single week.
21:17
Speaker 3: So although that was.
21:18
Speaker 1: Not a therapist, that was my first experience in something
21:22
Speaker 1: that felt similar to the therapeutic process because I had
21:25
Speaker 1: someone to talk to who was a stranger. It wasn't
21:27
Speaker 1: a friend, it wasn't a family member. It was this
21:29
Speaker 1: woman who was like, I'm here to listen to whatever
21:31
Speaker 1: it is you're going through, and she gave me the
21:33
Speaker 1: space to cry. She didn't tell me to stop crying,
21:36
Speaker 1: she didn't call me a cry baby, And those were
21:38
Speaker 1: some of the things I used to hear at that
21:40
Speaker 1: age when I was struggling. So to have this woman
21:43
Speaker 1: who was so compassionate toward me, that was my first
21:47
Speaker 1: experience to, oh, this is what therapy must feel like.
21:51
Speaker 1: And I was only sixteen at the time, so you know,
21:54
Speaker 1: as I graduated and things just continued to progress, for me,
21:57
Speaker 1: I didn't have access to my guidance counselor anymore. And
22:00
Speaker 1: that's when I realized therapy is the answer. And I'm
22:04
Speaker 1: very happy that I didn't allow the concerns of what
22:07
Speaker 1: other people would think of me if I said I
22:10
Speaker 1: have a therapist. I knew that people would have an opinion,
22:13
Speaker 1: but I'm at that age too with my attitude, I
22:16
Speaker 1: didn't care about their opinion.
22:18
Speaker 2: So I.
22:20
Speaker 1: Was brave enough to say, like, this is something I'm
22:22
Speaker 1: willing to do and own for myself.
22:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, wow, such a beautiful share. Thank you for
22:28
Speaker 2: doing that. Now, I know we're talking about kind of
22:32
Speaker 2: a generalization here about going to therapy for the first time,
22:36
Speaker 2: but for the sake of our purposes in this conversation,
22:39
Speaker 2: I'd love to transition and change directions a little bit
22:42
Speaker 2: to talking about seasonal effective disorder or seasonal depression. Now,
22:47
Speaker 2: I know that there are differences between the two, so
22:50
Speaker 2: can we kind of first and foremost flesh out what
22:53
Speaker 2: we're talking about here?
22:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're used interchangeably, but basically what it
22:59
Speaker 1: is is dealing with seasonal depression. It's seasonal, so most
23:04
Speaker 1: people who deal with depression, they may be familiar with
23:08
Speaker 1: major depressive disorder where every single day, regardless of the season,
23:12
Speaker 1: regardless of the changes in the weather, I feel down,
23:16
Speaker 1: I feel sad, I feel fatigued. I struggle with day
23:19
Speaker 1: to day life, I struggle with chores, I struggle with
23:22
Speaker 1: daily hygiene. Because those are the signs and symptoms of
23:26
Speaker 1: major depressive disorder. But seasonal depression, as well as seasonal
23:30
Speaker 1: effective disorder, is a particular seasonal thing. So seasonal depression
23:36
Speaker 1: often comes up in communities where the climates get colder.
23:39
Speaker 1: So we're on the East Coast, so New York is
23:41
Speaker 1: definitely one of those places where seasonal depression exists for
23:45
Speaker 1: a lot of people. A lot of the reasons why
23:48
Speaker 1: is when we have daylight savings, losing a lot of
23:51
Speaker 1: sunlight and the vitamin D and all the nutrients and
23:55
Speaker 1: the different things that we get from sunlight that a
23:58
Speaker 1: decrease in that now can and create a chemical imbalance.
24:02
Speaker 1: We're no longer getting the vitamin D that we need.
24:05
Speaker 1: And then the winter right keeps us stuck inside a bit.
24:09
Speaker 1: People are not as social or desire to be shel soled.
24:13
Speaker 1: We desire it, and then when we open our door,
24:15
Speaker 1: it's like twenty degrees.
24:16
Speaker 3: You know what, let me dis cancel right now?
24:18
Speaker 2: I desire like a bowl of pasta and sweatpants. Yeah. Yeah.
24:23
Speaker 1: So the key difference here is understanding that seasonal depression
24:27
Speaker 1: can happen more so in the fall or winter months,
24:31
Speaker 1: and seasonal effective disorder can actually happen more so in
24:34
Speaker 1: the summer and spring months. And the difference now to
24:38
Speaker 1: with the summer in spring months is this is a
24:42
Speaker 1: time where a lot of milestones happen. So in the
24:45
Speaker 1: spring summer people are graduating college and so it's like,
24:48
Speaker 1: what am I doing next with my life? And that
24:50
Speaker 1: can bring up a sense of sadness and depression around
24:54
Speaker 1: this time as well, because we're coming out of the winter.
24:57
Speaker 1: Preparing for the summer can also bring up a lot
25:00
Speaker 1: of emotions in our society. For example, the whole idea
25:04
Speaker 1: of having a summer body right, I think body image
25:07
Speaker 1: issues come up for a lot of people. And also
25:09
Speaker 1: that back to school season, so you have this very
25:12
Speaker 1: short window of time to yourself, time to engage, time
25:16
Speaker 1: to have fun in the sun or do the things
25:18
Speaker 1: that you need to do. And then that transition right
25:20
Speaker 1: back into school can also bring up a lot of
25:23
Speaker 1: depressive symptoms for some people. So those would be the
25:27
Speaker 1: differences between the two. But the key, but the key
25:30
Speaker 1: thing between the two is that seasonal aspect versus compared
25:34
Speaker 1: to someone who is dealing with major depressive disorder. It
25:37
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the season is. It could be hot,
25:40
Speaker 1: it could be cold, it could be spring full. They
25:43
Speaker 1: always tend to have this state of depression.
25:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, And oftentimes people may say, well, I just have
25:51
Speaker 2: the winter blues right now, like it's going to pass, right,
25:54
Speaker 2: So how do you know if this is something that
25:57
Speaker 2: you should actually be concerned about out or maybe speak
26:01
Speaker 2: to someone about, versus like it being a passing feeling.
26:05
Speaker 1: So that is a good thing that you just said.
26:08
Speaker 1: A passing feeling is the key thing. I always tell
26:10
Speaker 1: people to pay attention to symptoms and severity are important
26:15
Speaker 1: because if you are saying, it's the winter, it's really
26:19
Speaker 1: cold outside, and today I'm feeling super tired, I'm dealing
26:22
Speaker 1: with insomnia and my energy is low. But out of
26:25
Speaker 1: the winter months between November and February, that only happens
26:29
Speaker 1: once or twice for you, then it is probably a
26:32
Speaker 1: passing emotion where today just was hard, maybe because today
26:35
Speaker 1: was much colder compared to yesterday, or this week was
26:39
Speaker 1: much colder compared to last week. I find that my
26:42
Speaker 1: appetite has changed, or I find that my desire to
26:46
Speaker 1: engage or be social is different. But if you find
26:50
Speaker 1: that your symptoms number one are progressing. So it started
26:53
Speaker 1: off with me, I'm tired today. The next thing I know,
26:56
Speaker 1: my energy is constantly low. The next thing I know, well,
27:00
Speaker 1: I'm feeling really sad, and I just find myself having
27:02
Speaker 1: moments where I'm just crying and I don't even know
27:04
Speaker 1: why I'm crying. I also find myself having like mood swings.
27:08
Speaker 1: So one minute I feel okay and one minute I'm
27:10
Speaker 1: feeling down. I'm noticing that my appetite is decreasing. Those
27:13
Speaker 1: are symptoms, right, and so you want to pay attention
27:17
Speaker 1: to your symptoms because if you just have one or
27:19
Speaker 1: two symptoms, you're just dealing with life like a regular
27:22
Speaker 1: person would, right. But if your symptoms are continuously increasing,
27:27
Speaker 1: that is something that I would pay attention to. And
27:29
Speaker 1: it's also the severity of it. So what I mean
27:32
Speaker 1: with the severity is now that I listed all of
27:35
Speaker 1: the symptoms, how often are you experiencing these symptoms? Because
27:40
Speaker 1: if again between the months of like October or February.
27:43
Speaker 1: If you're experiencing these symptoms once or twice again, you
27:47
Speaker 1: might just be human.
27:48
Speaker 3: You are human.
27:49
Speaker 1: You're just dealing with the effects of the winter because
27:51
Speaker 1: it's cold. But if you find that maybe four to
27:54
Speaker 1: five times a week this is an issue for me,
27:57
Speaker 1: four to five times a week, I'm not eating four
28:00
Speaker 1: times a week, I'm in a chronic state of sadness.
28:03
Speaker 1: Four to five times a week, I'm noticing that my
28:06
Speaker 1: mood is different, I'm irritable, or maybe I'm just dealing
28:09
Speaker 1: with chronic anxiety. That is a sign that maybe there
28:12
Speaker 1: are some bodily changes happening for you, especially for people
28:16
Speaker 1: who One of the things we have to remember about
28:19
Speaker 1: seasonal depression is the holidays, and so it's not just
28:24
Speaker 1: the season that can be triggering for you. It could
28:28
Speaker 1: be last year I lost a loved one, and now
28:30
Speaker 1: I have to sit here and prep for Thanksgiving and
28:33
Speaker 1: this person isn't going to be at the dinner table.
28:35
Speaker 1: I just got divorced after ten years, and it's Christmas,
28:38
Speaker 1: and now I have to figure out what Christmas is
28:40
Speaker 1: going to look like for me and my children. So
28:43
Speaker 1: it's also important to remember societal changes as well as
28:46
Speaker 1: personal stressors that can impact feelings of depression. It may
28:50
Speaker 1: not just be the season. It could be the season
28:53
Speaker 1: on top of dealing with life stressors that are really
28:56
Speaker 1: hard to manage. So that is what I would encourage
29:00
Speaker 1: people to be thinking about. So is this really just
29:02
Speaker 1: a passing feeling or is it chronic? And is it
29:06
Speaker 1: becoming so chronic that it's now becoming debilitating for me
29:10
Speaker 1: to do day to day things to help me thrive.
29:13
Speaker 2: And what I'm hearing you say also, is the importance
29:17
Speaker 2: of keeping track or writing things down? Is that right?
29:22
Speaker 3: Yes?
29:22
Speaker 1: I definitely think for people who live in certain climates
29:27
Speaker 1: where seasonal depression or even seasonal effective disorder, if you
29:31
Speaker 1: know that you're about to go through a big transition
29:33
Speaker 1: and emotions are coming up for you, I definitely think
29:36
Speaker 1: tracking your mood can be important. I always tell people
29:40
Speaker 1: because people have a really hard time tracking their mood.
29:43
Speaker 1: And the reason why I say that is because I
29:45
Speaker 1: think we're so disconnected from emotions and feelings. Because I'll say, hey,
29:49
Speaker 1: how are you today, and people are like, I'm good.
29:51
Speaker 1: And I know that's like a generalized thing, but good
29:54
Speaker 1: is not a feeling. So if you're waking up every
29:56
Speaker 1: day and saying, let me check in with myself, I
29:58
Speaker 1: feel okay, I feel good good?
30:00
Speaker 3: What does that mean? Right?
30:02
Speaker 1: Because there are people who struggle with depression, there are
30:04
Speaker 1: people who have suicidal thoughts who when you ask them
30:06
Speaker 1: how are they, they say, I'm good? And so a
30:10
Speaker 1: better way to measure your emotions would be to say,
30:12
Speaker 1: on a scale of one to ten, one being my worst,
30:15
Speaker 1: ten being my best. Let me be honest with myself
30:18
Speaker 1: where do I fall within that spectrum? And if I'm
30:21
Speaker 1: if every single day I'm under a five, that's going
30:25
Speaker 1: to show me, even though I may not know how
30:27
Speaker 1: to name the feeling, being under a five every day
30:31
Speaker 1: kind of shows me something's wrong here, because if ten
30:33
Speaker 1: is me being at my best, why is it that
30:36
Speaker 1: for the last month I've only been at three? Right?
30:39
Speaker 1: And so, even like I said, even though you may
30:42
Speaker 1: struggle with saying I feel sad, I feel hopeless, I
30:44
Speaker 1: feel I just feel something so difficult, being able to
30:48
Speaker 1: measure your feelings allows you to have a clearer understanding
30:51
Speaker 1: of where do I fall on the feeling spectrum. I
30:54
Speaker 1: also encourage people to google something called the Feelings will
30:59
Speaker 1: or the emotion whill so that it can show you
31:01
Speaker 1: the different kinds of emotions we have, so that you
31:04
Speaker 1: can have language for it, because a lot of us,
31:06
Speaker 1: I think our vocabulary lapse when it comes to being
31:10
Speaker 1: able to define our emotional state. So that's another thing
31:13
Speaker 1: that I would encourage people to do. To match their
31:16
Speaker 1: number on a scale of one to ten with a
31:18
Speaker 1: feeling from the feelings will.
31:21
Speaker 2: So many helpful tips here that the numbers can really
31:24
Speaker 2: really make a big difference. And I went through a
31:27
Speaker 2: period of time where at the end of my journal
31:29
Speaker 2: entries in the morning, I would make a point to
31:32
Speaker 2: write down a highlight from the past twenty four hours.
31:34
Speaker 2: And similarly, if I had a difficult time writing down
31:39
Speaker 2: a highlight that was indicative to me that I was
31:41
Speaker 2: at present in my day to day, I couldn't even
31:43
Speaker 2: find something super small to be like, I loved the
31:47
Speaker 2: sun outside yesterday, and in those moments, it was like, okay,
31:50
Speaker 2: let's stop, let's do some inventory here. Where are you
31:54
Speaker 2: and why are you not? Where your feet are right?
31:57
Speaker 1: And I think that can be super super help full
32:00
Speaker 1: to really just take inventory and to do some processing.
32:04
Speaker 1: And it does require reflecting, and so I like that.
32:07
Speaker 1: You said a twenty four hour period. That's a very
32:10
Speaker 1: short amount of time, right, It's just today or yesterday.
32:13
Speaker 1: And if I'm really having a hard time figuring out
32:16
Speaker 1: what a highlight was or figuring out a moment, am
32:19
Speaker 1: I being mindful throughout the day? Am I allowing myself
32:22
Speaker 1: to be present with what's happening around me? Maybe I
32:25
Speaker 1: need to focus on wi If I can't find a highlight,
32:27
Speaker 1: what were the things that got in the way of
32:30
Speaker 1: me feeling good? What are the things that got in
32:32
Speaker 1: the way of me being able to say I'm grateful
32:34
Speaker 1: for this thing that happened yesterday, Because then maybe that
32:37
Speaker 1: also shows you where you need to erect some boundaries
32:39
Speaker 1: in your life. You know, if I'm consistently exposed to
32:41
Speaker 1: things that are just making me feel terrible and I
32:44
Speaker 1: can't find a highlight, what are some shifts that I
32:47
Speaker 1: need to make so that I can have more access
32:49
Speaker 1: to joy.
32:54
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Speaker 2: back to it. What we're talking about here this reflecting
35:40
Speaker 2: and then again with the different scales that we spoke about,
35:43
Speaker 2: this is reiterating the importance of honesty. So, for someone
35:47
Speaker 2: who may be having trouble being honest with themselves, what
35:52
Speaker 2: advice do you offer to them?
35:57
Speaker 1: This is a good question. I think a lot of
35:59
Speaker 1: us struggle with being honest with ourselves. No, yeah, we do.
36:04
Speaker 1: And I guess first I'll say that to normalize it, right,
36:07
Speaker 1: because I think sometimes we see people on a particular
36:11
Speaker 1: wellness journey and we want to be where they are,
36:15
Speaker 1: and we don't realize what they had to go through
36:18
Speaker 1: to get to where they are, and they went through
36:20
Speaker 1: moments of denial themselves to finally be able to step
36:25
Speaker 1: into their truth and own what's happening for them. And
36:28
Speaker 1: I think it's important to realize that if we are
36:31
Speaker 1: not honest with ourselves, we are hindering our ability to grow,
36:36
Speaker 1: you know, because if you are pretending and you are
36:40
Speaker 1: faking it till you make it, you will consistently burn
36:43
Speaker 1: yourself out and be drained because the truth opens your
36:47
Speaker 1: eyes to the things that need to be healed, and
36:50
Speaker 1: if you choose not to open your eyes to that thing,
36:53
Speaker 1: you're going to be doing all of these things and
36:55
Speaker 1: all these exercises and practices that really don't benefit you
36:59
Speaker 1: because it's not tackling the real issue. So I just
37:03
Speaker 1: remind people the benefit of honesty and how do you
37:07
Speaker 1: I always ask reflection questions, what are you gaining by
37:11
Speaker 1: lying to yourself, and you might say, well, you know,
37:14
Speaker 1: it keeps me safe and it keeps me protected. And
37:17
Speaker 1: now you need to do some reflecting and ask yourself,
37:20
Speaker 1: how has keeping you safe and protected allowed and protecting
37:23
Speaker 1: yourself in this particular way allowing you to flourish in life?
37:27
Speaker 1: How is that allowing you to flourish in your career?
37:29
Speaker 1: How is it allowing you to flourish in your partnerships?
37:32
Speaker 1: How is it allowing you to flourish in your friendships?
37:34
Speaker 1: If you are staying silent about what you're going through
37:37
Speaker 1: and not admitting that this is where I am in
37:39
Speaker 1: this current season and it's okay. Also, remember that truth
37:43
Speaker 1: in itself ebbs and flows, right, So the truth of
37:46
Speaker 1: what I'm experiencing now is it could look different tomorrow.
37:50
Speaker 3: You know.
37:50
Speaker 1: I think we struggle as a society with nuanced thinking,
37:55
Speaker 1: so we also hide from the truth because we assume
37:58
Speaker 1: if I feel this way, this is my life, this
38:00
Speaker 1: defines my morality, this is what forever is going to
38:03
Speaker 1: look like. And that's black and white thinking. Life is
38:07
Speaker 1: either good or bad, right or wrong. And if I
38:09
Speaker 1: feel this thing, I'm never going to get out of it.
38:11
Speaker 1: And I think we have to give ourselves permission to
38:14
Speaker 1: think a little deeper and expand the way we see life,
38:18
Speaker 1: and how growth in the way you think and see
38:21
Speaker 1: yourself is a part of healing, and your truth is
38:24
Speaker 1: going to change because how I feel about myself and
38:27
Speaker 1: the way maybe my thoughts, my beliefs and values that
38:29
Speaker 1: can change over time. So I think it's just really
38:32
Speaker 1: important to recognize that living in a state of denial
38:36
Speaker 1: means you are living in a state of self sabotage,
38:39
Speaker 1: and until you decide to own what's happening for you,
38:43
Speaker 1: you will stay stuck.
38:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, again, going back to that question, how do
38:48
Speaker 2: you want to feel? And what do you need to
38:50
Speaker 2: do to get to that place? And honestly, more often
38:54
Speaker 2: than not, the things that you're going to have to
38:56
Speaker 2: do to get there are going to be uncomfortable.
39:00
Speaker 1: It is we have to teach ourselves that we have
39:02
Speaker 1: the power to move through discomfort. Discomfort is not always
39:07
Speaker 1: as scary as we make it seem to be. And
39:10
Speaker 1: I think when we own that, you know, on the
39:13
Speaker 1: other side of discomfort is the life that I know
39:16
Speaker 1: I deserve, and it's the life that I want. Then
39:18
Speaker 1: there are some actionable steps that I need to take
39:21
Speaker 1: to get there.
39:22
Speaker 2: Definitely. Definitely. So to go back to our conversation on
39:26
Speaker 2: seasonal depression, you so helpfully articulated a lot of the
39:31
Speaker 2: symptoms of it for someone who can say for certain, okay,
39:36
Speaker 2: you know what, I think, this is what's going on here.
39:38
Speaker 2: What are they to do? What's the next step in
39:41
Speaker 2: treating that seasonal depression?
39:44
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'll start on the top level right now.
39:46
Speaker 1: If this is something that's super super severe and it's
39:50
Speaker 1: to the point where your depression is keeping you in
39:53
Speaker 1: a chronic state of sadness, there's a lot coming up
39:56
Speaker 1: for you emotionally, I would encourage maybe you want to
39:59
Speaker 1: talk to someone. And the reason why I say that too,
40:01
Speaker 1: is because I think people go into therapy with this
40:04
Speaker 1: mindset that this is forever and you can have a
40:07
Speaker 1: short term therapist, you know, you can work with someone
40:10
Speaker 1: for a few months and say, this is what I'm
40:12
Speaker 1: dealing with. I need an outlet, I need some emotional support,
40:16
Speaker 1: and right now I'm just dealing with seasonal depression and
40:18
Speaker 1: I need a therapist who can help me get through
40:20
Speaker 1: these difficult months. So that's the higher level form of
40:24
Speaker 1: support that I would encourage people to engage in. But
40:26
Speaker 1: there are some other things that you can do outside
40:28
Speaker 1: of therapy. The first thing I encourage people to do
40:32
Speaker 1: is really schedule pre care. What is pre care? We
40:37
Speaker 1: all know what self care is. It means doing this
40:39
Speaker 1: work of caring for ourselves. I'm going to go to
40:42
Speaker 1: the spa, I'm going to do all of these things
40:44
Speaker 1: that plays a role in nourishing my well being. But
40:48
Speaker 1: pre care means planning. It means planning in advance because
40:53
Speaker 1: I know in a few weeks the weather is dropping.
40:57
Speaker 1: So maybe I'm paying attention more to the weather outlet
41:00
Speaker 1: and I'm saying, it's Monday, Saturday, It's going to be
41:02
Speaker 1: a really cold day. And not only is it on Saturday,
41:06
Speaker 1: I'm going to be home and I'm going to be
41:08
Speaker 1: by myself. So maybe there's a possibility I might start
41:11
Speaker 1: to feel a bit of depressed. I might start to
41:14
Speaker 1: feel depressed. I might start to feel sad. Pre Care
41:16
Speaker 1: means what can I do for myself on Saturday? Is
41:19
Speaker 1: there a social component? Is there a friend's house I
41:22
Speaker 1: can go to? Is there a social activity I can
41:24
Speaker 1: engage in? Or how can I make my home environment
41:28
Speaker 1: healthy for me? Are there things in my home environment?
41:30
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm going to say, you know what, there's this
41:32
Speaker 1: movie I've really been wanting to watch. I'm going to
41:34
Speaker 1: wait for Saturday so that I have something to do
41:36
Speaker 1: that day. So that is what pre care looks like.
41:39
Speaker 1: It literally means planning in advance. Because I always tell
41:42
Speaker 1: people stop letting life happen to you. Stop waking up
41:45
Speaker 1: and saying I feel sad, I feel all these different things,
41:48
Speaker 1: and I'm just going to wait for something to happen
41:50
Speaker 1: to me. We do have to take actionable steps to
41:53
Speaker 1: get to the place we're trying to be. But this
41:55
Speaker 1: is why I also share that high level support because
41:58
Speaker 1: some of us really struggle. If our depression is so debilitating,
42:03
Speaker 1: taking that actionable step can be difficult, and I think
42:06
Speaker 1: that's when you might have to pull in a professional
42:09
Speaker 1: form of support. Another thing I encourage people to do
42:13
Speaker 1: is find different ways that you can be practicing self
42:16
Speaker 1: care that is realistic to your day to day. So
42:20
Speaker 1: some people feel like self care is going to the spa.
42:22
Speaker 1: Are you going to the spa every day?
42:24
Speaker 3: Doubt it.
42:25
Speaker 1: So when we think of self care, I always ask
42:28
Speaker 1: people to think of self nourishment. What am I doing
42:32
Speaker 1: to nourish myself? On a daily basis. I encourage people
42:36
Speaker 1: to develop a morning routine where you're asking yourself, on
42:39
Speaker 1: a scale of one to ten, how am I feeling
42:41
Speaker 1: when I woke up today? Because also when you deal
42:43
Speaker 1: with seasonal depression, you might have sleep issues. So how
42:47
Speaker 1: did I wake up feeling? And if I woke up
42:49
Speaker 1: feeling less than a five, what are some actionable things
42:52
Speaker 1: that I might need to do today to insert pockets
42:54
Speaker 1: of nourishment and enjoy right, And so that's something that
42:58
Speaker 1: I truly encourage people to do. And the last thing
43:02
Speaker 1: I'd add is journaling. And I think writing out your
43:06
Speaker 1: thoughts and writing out your feelings can be important. It
43:09
Speaker 1: can help you release the different feelings that feel heavy.
43:13
Speaker 1: But there are also different theme based journalings people can
43:16
Speaker 1: engage in. And the number one theme I encourage people
43:19
Speaker 1: to utilize is gratitude journaling. And there's a practice call
43:24
Speaker 1: the three good Things, and the three good things literally
43:27
Speaker 1: just means writing down three good things that happened today
43:30
Speaker 1: and why you felt they were good our brains throughout
43:34
Speaker 1: the day. Studies show that eighty percent of our thoughts
43:38
Speaker 1: are negative, so we already have a barrier when it
43:45
Speaker 1: comes to having gratitude because our brains are wired to
43:49
Speaker 1: see a lot of things through a negative lens. So
43:52
Speaker 1: the Three Good Things practice requires us to be very
43:55
Speaker 1: intentional about reflecting on our day, processing our day. Because
44:01
Speaker 1: it's easy to say this went wrong, and this happened,
44:04
Speaker 1: and it annoyed me, and this happened and it made
44:06
Speaker 1: me angry.
44:06
Speaker 3: But what made you happy?
44:08
Speaker 1: Are you taking the time to reflect on that or
44:10
Speaker 1: are you making room and giving more space to the
44:13
Speaker 1: things that you didn't like?
44:15
Speaker 3: Right?
44:15
Speaker 1: And so you have to ask yourself where are you
44:17
Speaker 1: putting your power? And so when it comes to the
44:20
Speaker 1: Three Good Things practice, it really just helps people recognize
44:24
Speaker 1: that my depression isn't defining my life because good things
44:27
Speaker 1: are still happening to me. My brain is trying to
44:30
Speaker 1: trick me into believing that life is sad right now,
44:33
Speaker 1: life is hard right now. But this actually was a
44:36
Speaker 1: moment that reminded me I'm alive, And this is actually
44:39
Speaker 1: a moment that reminded me that I feel good in
44:41
Speaker 1: my skin, or that I feel beautiful, or that I
44:43
Speaker 1: know I'm loved and supported, or that this is a
44:45
Speaker 1: particular thing I enjoy doing in life. So that is
44:48
Speaker 1: another skill in practice that I really encourage people who
44:53
Speaker 1: are dealing with seasonal depression to engage in. And I
44:57
Speaker 1: will add lastly to there are there are particular lamps
45:01
Speaker 1: that you can put in your house that gives you
45:03
Speaker 1: that it kind of mimics the rays that come from
45:07
Speaker 1: the sun, and that can be very very helpful to have.
45:11
Speaker 2: Yes, I feel like they're like happy happy light therapy
45:15
Speaker 2: lamps and boxes. Yeah, happy lamps. I remember at one
45:20
Speaker 2: of my first ever like corporate jobs out of college,
45:23
Speaker 2: one of the things that the company did was like
45:25
Speaker 2: one day, we all walked in and we had some
45:27
Speaker 2: random like happy lamp on our desk, And I was like, Oh,
45:31
Speaker 2: is this how we're making all the employees like feel
45:33
Speaker 2: better today? Is this the secret? Maybe I don't know,
45:37
Speaker 2: Maybe it's more time off. Maybe we don't need a
45:39
Speaker 2: happy lamp, but you know, to each there up.
45:43
Speaker 3: To each very right, it could be very helpful.
45:46
Speaker 1: I remember working a job one day where I had
45:48
Speaker 1: an office that had no windows. Oh well yeah, imagine
45:52
Speaker 1: being outside, it's sunny, it's nice outside, and you go
45:54
Speaker 1: into this dark box. So I had to get myself
45:58
Speaker 1: a happy lamp, you know, because something that's another thing
46:00
Speaker 1: we can't always have control over our environment, and people
46:04
Speaker 1: who are dealing with seasonal depression do maybe I know
46:07
Speaker 1: right now in a current climate where and there is
46:09
Speaker 1: a lot of remote work, but there are still people
46:11
Speaker 1: who are getting up and going to an office. So
46:13
Speaker 1: imagine having a windowless office, right, like literally just staring
46:17
Speaker 1: at wools all day. So having some sense of nature,
46:20
Speaker 1: you know, having a lamb, having aromatherapy, having certain things
46:25
Speaker 1: to help your environment can also help you dealing with
46:28
Speaker 1: your depression as well.
46:29
Speaker 2: This is reminding me of the conversation that I had
46:31
Speaker 2: with Mekka Agumakay and she was talking about when she
46:34
Speaker 2: was experiencing depression and for her, she likened it kind
46:37
Speaker 2: of to this scenario being in a room that's dark,
46:40
Speaker 2: the shades are drawn, you know their sun outside, but
46:43
Speaker 2: you are incapable of opening the shade, of drawing the blinds.
46:47
Speaker 2: And so if you have the opportunity to use these
46:50
Speaker 2: different tools that you have really highlighted for us here, Mina,
46:54
Speaker 2: then that is your opportunity to get to a place
46:57
Speaker 2: where maybe it feels a little easier to draw those shades,
47:01
Speaker 2: to open those lines.
47:02
Speaker 1: Right. And I want to say too to too that
47:05
Speaker 1: measuring progress. I think where people mess up is they
47:09
Speaker 1: want healing to be this grand thing. And for some people,
47:14
Speaker 1: if I can't get out of my bed and walk
47:17
Speaker 1: to the window and open a shade, the fact that
47:20
Speaker 1: I even made attempt to stand up, that's my progress
47:24
Speaker 1: for today. That is one of my three good things.
47:26
Speaker 1: That was the first good thing. So I think it's
47:29
Speaker 1: important to remember those micro moments that happened without the
47:32
Speaker 1: day that shows us we're moving closer to healing. And
47:36
Speaker 1: I think for people dealing with more debilitating depression, think
47:40
Speaker 1: of the small micro moments that you can create. You
47:43
Speaker 1: putting the pressure on yourself to wake up and click
47:46
Speaker 1: yourself breakfast and take a shower and do all these
47:48
Speaker 1: things that you know is extremely hard for you. It
47:51
Speaker 1: could be today I woke up and I splashed water
47:53
Speaker 1: on my face and that was enough. And then maybe
47:56
Speaker 1: by next week I'll have the ability to jump in
47:59
Speaker 1: a shit and brush my teeth and do the things
48:01
Speaker 1: that I know I need to do. But right now,
48:04
Speaker 1: I have to start small with what my energy is
48:06
Speaker 1: allowing me to do, and that's progress. So I just
48:10
Speaker 1: wanted to add that because I think we measure success
48:13
Speaker 1: in a way that is unrealistic to where we are
48:16
Speaker 1: in our current state.
48:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, And I would be remiss if we
48:21
Speaker 2: didn't at least touch on the topic of medication. I
48:25
Speaker 2: know that this is something that often individuals reach out
48:28
Speaker 2: to me asking about because I have been open with
48:32
Speaker 2: my experience personally of going on medication for depression. For
48:37
Speaker 2: someone who is curious about this, what do you have
48:41
Speaker 2: to say to them?
48:42
Speaker 1: I definitely would say reach out to a psychiatrist, the
48:46
Speaker 1: person who is trained, the person who is the professional,
48:50
Speaker 1: and the person who most likely is going to be
48:52
Speaker 1: administering the medication. Reaching out to a psychiatrist does not
48:57
Speaker 1: mean that you're asking for the medication. Do a concert
49:00
Speaker 1: with them, let them know this is what I'm feeling,
49:03
Speaker 1: these are the effects that I'm having, and learn more
49:06
Speaker 1: about what the medication process looks like, you know. So
49:09
Speaker 1: I think that can just be important because I do
49:12
Speaker 1: know that some people are very hesitant, they're very scared
49:15
Speaker 1: going on medication. For some people it's long term and
49:18
Speaker 1: that's fine, and for some people it's short term and
49:21
Speaker 1: that's also fine, right, But I think if you are
49:24
Speaker 1: curious and you really want to weigh your options, you
49:26
Speaker 1: want to know what medications are best for you. You
49:28
Speaker 1: want to know how long it might require it for
49:30
Speaker 1: you to be on medication. The best person to ask
49:34
Speaker 1: to have that conversation with is a psychiatrist. I know
49:36
Speaker 1: we live in a day and age of wellness blogs
49:39
Speaker 1: in Google, but I do encourage if you are seeking
49:42
Speaker 1: medication to try to step away from It's okay to
49:45
Speaker 1: do your research and come to a psychiatrist with the
49:47
Speaker 1: things you read online and say, these are some things
49:50
Speaker 1: that I've learned about, but don't let articles scare you
49:54
Speaker 1: from the process of medication. I do think talking to
49:56
Speaker 1: a professional always helps relieve us the stress or anxiety
50:01
Speaker 1: that we have about starting something new that we're not
50:04
Speaker 1: familiar with.
50:05
Speaker 2: Definitely and knowing that just because you read one article
50:10
Speaker 2: or listen to one podcast and heard about one person's
50:13
Speaker 2: experience does not mean that that experience could mimic your own,
50:17
Speaker 2: and that we are each individual. So praising, of course,
50:21
Speaker 2: the benefit of seeking out a qualified expert to help
50:25
Speaker 2: you on your journey, there is seriously nothing more important.
50:29
Speaker 1: Exactly, you know, someone else's experience with medication is not
50:32
Speaker 1: going to be your experience. Our bodies react to things differently,
50:36
Speaker 1: which is why having a consultation with a medical professional
50:40
Speaker 1: and having that person in your life, because you might
50:42
Speaker 1: try a medication and it may not work for you,
50:44
Speaker 1: and you have that outlet there for you to try
50:47
Speaker 1: a different one. And that's another thing I'll say too.
50:49
Speaker 1: Sometimes you might try a medicine and that particular medication
50:53
Speaker 1: may not work. It doesn't mean you don't need medication,
50:56
Speaker 1: or that medication is bad. It's just that particular prescription
50:59
Speaker 1: did it work for you, and it's okay to try
51:01
Speaker 1: something new. So I would add that as well.
51:04
Speaker 2: And I think that that point applies to a lot
51:07
Speaker 2: of the different pieces of advice that you've offered here
51:10
Speaker 2: today relevant to both seasonal depression and then of course
51:14
Speaker 2: seeking out a therapist and so on and so forth.
51:17
Speaker 2: There are going to be opportunities for you to try
51:20
Speaker 2: different things, and then you have the opportunity to pivot
51:24
Speaker 2: and be honest with yourself about how these things are
51:26
Speaker 2: working for you, knowing that there is another way, there's
51:31
Speaker 2: always a different thing that you can do to help
51:34
Speaker 2: you on your journey, because that's the goal, right The
51:36
Speaker 2: goal is to get to feel how you want to feel,
51:40
Speaker 2: and being open to the fact that that path to
51:43
Speaker 2: get to your destination certainly is highly unlikely going to
51:47
Speaker 2: be linear.
51:49
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it is.
51:51
Speaker 1: Nothing in life is linear, you know, especially when we're
51:54
Speaker 1: talking about healing. So human behavior in itself is not linear, right,
52:00
Speaker 1: Experiences are not linear. So I do think that's the
52:02
Speaker 1: key thing to understanding and allowing shifts and allowing the
52:06
Speaker 1: ebbing and flowing of life to just happen. And if
52:10
Speaker 1: you have to pivot, you pivot. That's a part of
52:12
Speaker 1: the journey and that's okay.
52:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that saying be okay with changing the plan. So, Mina,
52:19
Speaker 2: as we wrap up here today, is there any stone
52:22
Speaker 2: we have left unturned when it comes to this topic.
52:25
Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you want to offer us
52:27
Speaker 2: when it comes to, let's say, both treating seasonal depression
52:31
Speaker 2: and also perhaps seeking out the help that you may
52:35
Speaker 2: need to move forward on your journey through talk therapy.
52:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think lastly, it's just having a plan, like
52:42
Speaker 1: I said, when you are dealing with seasonal depression, especially
52:46
Speaker 1: for people who do realize it is specifically seasonal. I
52:50
Speaker 1: always think planning and making room for just really creating
52:55
Speaker 1: routines can be very, very beneficial. But lastly, when it
52:59
Speaker 1: comes to seeking help. I always like to remind people
53:02
Speaker 1: when you are seeking help from a therapist, you don't
53:05
Speaker 1: have to go with the first person that you find.
53:07
Speaker 1: You are allowed to shop around, give yourself about three
53:11
Speaker 1: or four options, do three to four consultations with each person,
53:15
Speaker 1: and take a step back to say which one really
53:18
Speaker 1: fit my needs best? And how did I feel during
53:21
Speaker 1: that consultation with this person? And if you move forward
53:25
Speaker 1: with them and you realize after maybe two to three
53:27
Speaker 1: sessions we're not clicking, it's okay to end therapy and
53:30
Speaker 1: find someone else. So be okay with pivoting in the
53:34
Speaker 1: therapeutic process as well until you find a great fit.
53:38
Speaker 1: Because going to therapy and finding a therapist is similar
53:41
Speaker 1: to dating. Are you going to marry the first person
53:43
Speaker 1: you ever go on a date with? Most likely not
53:45
Speaker 1: right go. We date a few people before we to help,
53:49
Speaker 1: and that dating process also helps us understand more about ourselves.
53:53
Speaker 3: What do I like? What are my needs are?
53:55
Speaker 1: This person did something that did something that made me realize, oh,
53:58
Speaker 1: you know what I feel like, that's a flag that
54:00
Speaker 1: doesn't make me feel comfortable, right, And so think of
54:03
Speaker 1: it as a dating experience you're going to go through
54:05
Speaker 1: a few people before you find the one, and that's
54:08
Speaker 1: what finding a therapist is all about.
54:10
Speaker 2: Definitely, And just one last thing to touch on here.
54:13
Speaker 2: You mentioned routine, and we talked about how self care
54:16
Speaker 2: can look different for everyone. I can speak on my
54:19
Speaker 2: experience that self care for me is literally my morning
54:22
Speaker 2: routine and it's nothing crazy fancy, but I know that
54:25
Speaker 2: if I take the time to do a few small
54:29
Speaker 2: things in the morning for myself, then not only can
54:31
Speaker 2: I show up better for myself as the day goes on,
54:33
Speaker 2: but then I'm also a better me for the people
54:36
Speaker 2: that are around. So not only finding what works for
54:38
Speaker 2: you in the scheme of speaking with a therapist and
54:42
Speaker 2: doing that quote unquote dating, but then also being able
54:45
Speaker 2: to find what works for you in this self care arena,
54:47
Speaker 2: knowing that you have this opportunity and this work, this
54:50
Speaker 2: word keeps coming up to design what it is that
54:53
Speaker 2: feels right for you and your body and your skin.
54:56
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree one awesome.
54:59
Speaker 2: Well, well, Mina, I am so happy that we were
55:01
Speaker 2: able to make this happen today. If the hurdlers do
55:04
Speaker 2: not yet follow you, how do they keep up with you?
55:07
Speaker 2: How do they do?
55:07
Speaker 3: So?
55:08
Speaker 2: Give us your details?
55:09
Speaker 1: Well, you can first follow me on Instagram. My handle
55:13
Speaker 1: is Mina Underscore B and That'snaa Underscore B. You can
55:18
Speaker 1: also visit my website www. Dominab dot com. And on
55:22
Speaker 1: my website you can find my newsletter titled Mindful with Mina,
55:27
Speaker 1: where I share tips and practices on how to build
55:30
Speaker 1: healthy relationships through mindfulness. And lastly, you can stay tuned
55:35
Speaker 1: for my book that will be launching come this August
55:39
Speaker 1: titled Owning Our Struggles a Path to Healing and finding
55:42
Speaker 1: Community in a Broken World. And you can also find
55:45
Speaker 1: details about my book on my website.
55:47
Speaker 2: Wow, that was very well rehearsed and also excellently said amazing.
55:52
Speaker 2: I will make sure to link to all of these
55:54
Speaker 2: in the show notes. I'm over at Hurdle Podcast and
55:57
Speaker 2: at Emily Abody another Hurdle Conquered. Catch you guys next
56:01
Speaker 2: side