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AIM High: Talking about marketing influence and role modelling · Two in Twenty

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to another episode of Aim High.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Twink Field.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, I'm the founder of White Marble Consulting and host of these podcasts.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're having a one-on-one.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking to Alex Lier, who is group head of wholesale marketing and head of UK marketing at HSBC Asset Management.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also delighted to say that she is shortlisted as Marketing Influencer of the Year at the forthcoming Women Investment Awards.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we're talking today about exactly that, about what does it mean, marketing influence and role modelling?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll pass straight to my conversation with her.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Alex, for joining me today to talk about marketing influence and role modelling.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It would be great if you could just introduce yourself, a bit of your background, your role, and then we can talk a little bit more about those things.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks very much for having me on today.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's great to join you.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so um I'm Alex Lea and I work for HSBC Asset Management.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm currently head of the Global Head of Um Wholesale Marketing, um, but also um head of UK marketing.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I've actually been with HSBC for uh over a decade now.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's nearly 13 years, so it's been blown by very fast.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, it's been it's been great.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, congratulations and also congratulations on your latest shortlisting for Marketing Influence of the Year.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was wondering, uh, you know, as a no doubt front runner for that, really, how does that sit with you, this sort of term of being a marketing influencer or an influencer in the industry?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe if I could invite you to um shrug off your your modesty and just sort of share a little bit around the kind of things that you've focused on, you know, in in that respect.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, congratulations to you two and uh on on your shortlisting.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I mean it's it's difficult to think of yourself as an influencer, isn't it?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure everybody is a bit a bit modest about that.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: But um I think it's you know, for me, it's more about turning up every day, you know, doing a good job and having some fun along the way.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So so I think that's really, really important um for all of us to think about, especially over the last, you know, last couple of years where it's been really challenging.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think in in terms of sort of what I've focused on in, you know, in terms of my nomination, so to speak, um, it was really around kind of what we've delivered as a marketing team over the last few years, but also, you know, things that are passionate to me about um leadership and about diversity and inclusion.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I lead, for example, our working parents network at HSBC Asset Management.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, these are the things that I suppose going back to my first point about having fun along the way, you you need to really be fulfilled in what you're doing.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you wake up every day, you want to enjoy going to work.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's and I know that people sort of talk about um sort of bringing your whole self to work.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that is something that's definitely become more in our language the last few years than than, well, certainly in my career anyway, there's the kind of much more embracing of that.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you you see as well?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, definitely, and and no more so in the last couple of years when we've met everybody's pets, you know, um, children, etc., on Zoom calls.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I think it's it's really important, you know, being authentic and at work.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that means, you know, bringing your whole self.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, different people have different, um, you know, want to bring a bit more of themselves to work and others less.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I think it's um you, you know, you need to check in on people, you need to understand what, as a leader, you need to understand what's going on in in people's lives as much as they want to share, um, so that you can really, you know, help sort of, you know, have that sort of diverse team and and bring people together and and you know, deliver ultimately.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And will you um I completely support all that you're saying, and I was just curious as to whether that's something that you've kind of learnt along the way in terms of finding your own style, or whether there was also somebody uh that helped mentor you, or there was somebody influential in terms of either a marketing approach or in terms of that team management uh that you had a mentor as yeah, definitely.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been I've been really lucky in my career.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've had some great managers, but also some great mentors and and supporters along the way.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I think um really for me, this kind of this sort of big, big moment for me in my career was when I um sort of first managed a larger team, a larger marketing team.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I just I definitely made a mistake early on in that I kind of was very serious in my leadership.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was thinking, right, I'm I need to show that I'm the you know, I'm the leader here, I'm the manager here, and you know, I need to be very, very serious about that.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and you know, it wasn't very successful in the first few days, as you can as you can imagine.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was, you know, my my sort of um uh CEO or sort of sales head took me to one side and at that time and said, Look, Alex, that's not really your personality, you know, you're you're you need to be authentic, you need to bring your whole self to this situation.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it was very difficult.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure, you know, some of the listeners have been in this position where you're a peer and then maybe you get promoted into a role where you know suddenly you're supposed to be managing people or you're in a you know slightly different team and maybe you're a stakeholder to these pieces and people that before you were peers with.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I thought that was really sound advice, and it was just about just letting that situation happen, giving it some time, you know, not going in too hard and fast with this kind of stuff, and and yeah, you know, bringing bringing your whole self to this and being authentic and natural.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that's definitely that was a big moment in my career, and um I'd like to think something that sort of you know sort of helped me to build my management style and leadership style today.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And actually it's interesting, isn't it, to be able to um embrace that candid kind of course correction and sort of um allow your colleagues and peers to sort of tell you if they feel like they, you know, you need a sort of bit of shaping here or there.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that says a lot about the the atmosphere or the culture of your working environment.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just going to, you know, to your exact point around moving from a kind of peer to managing people, um I I definitely sort of made the same mistakes actually through my and I found um moving jobs.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: I could somehow sort of just sort of reflect a little bit, take stock before I kind of ran into the next role and think about being a bit more purposeful in encouraging others to take the decisions and me fostering environment for that as opposed to kind of asserting what I thought was the right decision, which was to you know bring my assertive self to work and um kind of wear all the decisions, but actually kind of try and find that more collaborative engagement.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was a definite step change I found, and one that I had to be quite purposeful about.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, I I completely agree.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's uncomfortable sometimes.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: These things can be, especially when you're, you know, you suddenly realize, oh, yeah, no, that wasn't that wasn't great.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you sort of take a step back and look at how, you know, that from an outsider's perspective, how other people might feel or perceive some of the conversations you're having.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think it's you know, it's the mettle of somebody if you can, if you can say, actually, no, I'm gonna take on board this feedback.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and it also shows the importance of having people around you that you trust for feedback and you know, mentors from different, you know, mentors from your part of the business, but maybe mentors from outside of the industry or from other organizations, you know, it's all it's all all really important.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Completely right.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and maybe to ask you a bit more about how you bring your, you know, your talents to that role modelling um responsibility, frankly.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and kind of you were naturally clearly already doing it in front of your team in terms of kind of listening to the feedback.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd love to hear about you know how you how you think about that, that sort of role, the always-on role model.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I mean, I think it's it's um for for me, it's about having um, you know, my sort of, I suppose, my own yardstick, my own benchmarks, my own red lines, whatever, you know, different people call these things different things.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I found that in my career quite early on, um, and I'm sure others feel the same, you know, there's so much going on, you've got so many different conversations happening all the time.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you really need to think like what's important to me, what's important to the people around me, like how do I want to be perceived?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: How, how, what do I feel is important in terms of that role, role model behaviour?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think you quickly kind of build your own sort of internal sort of framework, whatever you want to call that, um, that you can make, you know, you can you can sort of shortcut to um a lot of the time.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I think for me, things like communication is absolutely important.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're marketeers after all, communication should be in our blood.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we also need to make sure that it, you know, that we're we're doing that with our with our teams and our and our stakeholders as well.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think the other thing is one of the other areas I really like to think about is, you know, obviously our clients, you know, that's that's massively important.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you always need to think about that voice of the client all the time.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I try and insert that into all the conversations that I have with my with my team.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it's also about how you sort of communicate and speak to your stakeholders within within your business, you know, sort of talking their language, understanding, you know, what's going on in their world, like you would with a client, right?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you want to understand who they are, what makes them tick, how they like to digest information.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it's the same with internal stakeholders.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to try and you know encourage and help the teams to to think along the same lines.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: You could sort of take the principles of segmentation and being more personalized when you're kind of talking to your internal stakeholders in the same way.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you make a great point there around making sure you communicate what you expect, you don't just think people automatically know what your standards and and expectations might be in terms of what they're delivering or kind of what your your team are working towards.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so how do you, you know, is that your sort of strengths around communication, around role modelling, kind of best practice?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how you set the right sort of standards and behaviours and call out kind of behavioral reaction that isn't quite aligned to that?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I think it, yeah, all of those things and you know, just giving people enough time to pause and reflect on what they're doing, you know, and and say, have you thought about this a different way of looking at something?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you had a conversation with him or her about that, just to try and get a different perspective because it's good that people arrive at some of this stuff on their own.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: You, you know, you do not want to be the person that's always sort of telling people what to do.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what leadership always is.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's helping people, just giving them some signposts or or some, you know, some other ways to to perhaps think about something differently.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really important people have the time to do that because we're all so busy, you know, next thing on the list.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we need to make sure we build in, build in that time.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, because we're all so busy, we often do the cardinal sin, which is to actually tell people the answer to your point.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's actually not that's not a great long-term outcome, it's to sort of just keep telling people what to do and kind of where the solution is, but instead encourage and ask the questions that enable them to get there through a kind of coaching style on this.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And just, you know, with a stakeholder, for example, put yourself in their shoes, how would they want to be presented with this information, or you're the client, how would you want to be presented with this information or this content or this ad or whatever, whatever it is, and and just yeah, like I said, have that time to reflect on that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um to reflect also on the last 18 months or so, you know, and how that has had to change how we operate, communicate, um, support, and bring teams together virtually.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: How have you changed how you lead?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Have you been and sort of been kind of no doubt thoughtful around some sort of tweaks and changes to to get the best out of everybody in this environment?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, well, it's been you know hugely challenging for everybody, right?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's got their own circumstances, whether they're homeschooling kids or whether they're you know on their own in a you know in a flat with no outside space, it's you know, it's just been really, really difficult for everybody.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think having or trying to have some empathy for that and understanding people's situations is is has been really important.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, in terms of have I changed my leadership style, actually probably not.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what has been important is to be able to facilitate continuing that leadership style through through this environment.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, where we you know have conversations at the desk, just catching people asking how they are or what they're up to or whatever, um, you know, in the Zoom environment, that's quite quite difficult to do.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have had, well, what we did was just put in some little measures to to sort of continue that.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So whether that's just informal team huddles or me just picking somebody up and sorry, picking the phone up and speaking to somebody and saying, How are you today?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't always have to be a formal team meeting or a town hall.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was that was important that we were able to continue being communicating how how we how we could before.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, we had to make an effort to do that.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't just happen automatically because, you know, as we all know, scheduling a Zoom call with somebody is no easy feat.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, indeed.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a sort of curious dynamic, isn't it?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: The kind of the informal calls that you also sort of feel like you need to have some structure about, otherwise it's just kind of, you know, you're sort of left slightly without an agenda, you know.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think um it's a sort of a strange dynamic where you want to touch face but without kind of looking like you're prying or sort of feeling like you're being overbearing.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's I think the more you do it, the more people get used to it.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm, you know, just phoning to see how you are, just phoning for a chat, like tell me what's going on in your world, you know, how how are things?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and maybe at the beginning it might feel a bit strange, but the more you do it, the more it becomes the norm.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: True.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I also love the questions that come back at you as well.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of rather than it feeling like um it's all one-way traffic, kind of asking kind of questions that's that I think in this environment everybody feels like they can ask those questions back and fully expect to still see my family in the background and kind of dog that's going to sort of interfere at different times and things like that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's been a real positive.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I agree.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's kind of, you know, especially perhaps for more senior people, it's sort of humanized people, you know, that you know, and and felt that everybody can communicate together and and I think that helps with the collaboration as well.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me, tell me, Alex, over your career, um the you know, reflecting on this intense time the last couple of years for for many marketers and really absorbing a lot of these strains and thinking about how they can motivate themselves and navigate this, there must have been, you know, in addition to these last couple of years, kind of my career is ending to go by, there's some other challenges along the way.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And having to kind of bring some sort of your kind of skill and talent.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was just kind of curious as to when you've had to sort of rely on uh your sort of your natural talents and uh influence to overcome and turn things around and whether you have any broader examples around that.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think it'll be inspiring for others to think that you don't always have it, the answers and always have it made, but you've got to sort of navigate your way through sometimes.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure we've all got you know, we've all experienced that in our in our career.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think um, you know, broadly it's um sort of prioritization, I think, has been more and more key.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've always had to prioritize, haven't we?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's you know, even more so, and really understanding like what will bring the most value to the clients and and and to the and to the business here.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I think um for for me, for example, and for some of and the team, it's really been about um, you know, well, what do we what do we stand for as an organization, you know, and and there's so much work to do, but really we need to sort of ladder that up to the big, the big ticket stuff.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, how do we sort of build on our on our brand, etc.?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's these things are sometimes not easy because there's big investment that's involved, you know, there's a lot of stakeholders, um, and especially when, you know, things I'm sure again we've all experienced marketing budgets, you know, might be tight or cut or et cetera, et cetera.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: How do you still convince that this marketing investment is is is really key?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, for me, there's been there's been sort of building on the relationships that you've got in, you know, already, but more importantly, showing the value.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is whereas, you know, we need to bring in more around our data and analytics and measurement of marketing, it's so, so important.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, yes, I mean, there are lots and lots of different metrics that we can use, but within it, you know, my organization, your organization, and the listeners' organizations, you know, really to understand what is that killer metric that will help get that investment, you know, investment for the business.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's where your um, you know, as as we touched on earlier, right?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing people tend to be good communicators, you know, that might be more of a natural flair for us all.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: But we also have to do the things that maybe is slightly less natural to us around data analytics, you know, that kind of thing.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's just that's just you know the future of of our of marketing for me.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we have to sort of, you know, turn our hand to that and educate ourselves on these, on these kind of areas too.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there are always lots of challenges, but I think, I think for me recently, prioritization and and sort of more on the data and analytics have been really key.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, isn't it, how the role of the marketer has changed certainly in our careers and how there are sort of number of hacks that we have to wear.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as you say, great communicator, but a creative person, somebody who understands the sort of compliance requirements, regulatory requirements, that also is great at uh looking at the full client journey, understanding client needs, uh, stakeholder management, the sort of data piece, you know, that that's um so crucial, as you say.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know there are very many different facets now to a marketer.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, I think with it'd be great to get your thoughts as to kind of what marketers should have front of mind to be a leader kind of within this field.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's increasingly competitive.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: We know that it's a crowded market to your point, kind of really getting to a place where everything is laddering up to the sort of key business goals, objectives.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um but within this sort of changing environment, kind of what do you think our listeners have got to really focus on themselves individually and maybe uh you know help push their businesses to focus on too?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mentioned earlier the the sort of analytics piece.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's really key and sort of you know, customer journey mapping, personalization, like understanding where you're talking to your clients and how you can, you know, present them with content that's doesn't waste their time, you know, that it's it's it's valuable to them.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think hand in hand with sort of data analytics is is digital landscape.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, digital is a really big broad word, and it can mean so many things to so many different people.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure, you know, within everyone's business the word digital means something else.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, we have to um we have to be savvy, we have to be digitally savvy and understand what that means to our own businesses and upskill ourselves.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, this is this is how the the future um I think it's also about well, it's not just the future.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, going back to that, it's it's the now, isn't it?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just it's not just the future, but I think we also need to understand how um the channels are changing in in the industry.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a lot of consolidation of you know, trade journals and you know, etc.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to understand, understand that as well.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, you you might be an events specialist, for example, but the world of events has changed hugely in the last couple of years.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really interesting to think what that will look like, you know, with the hybrid events, etc.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, I think I think we really it's it's making sure you have the right skills, you know, understanding where you think the industry's going, the industry and the mock and marketing is going.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, look outside of the of the category as well, you know, look outside of asset management, see what's going on in in other areas.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I think you've just got to have this very well-rounded um view of the world, um, you know, of your clients, of your stakeholders, of the marketing industry.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and just, you know, trying try and keep on top of that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not easy, but you know, you you have to you have to try.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, isn't it?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: That sort of need for kind of curiosity for learning that you could have just to instill almost culturally across the team that they're kind of always looking for um not only, as you say, what other industries are doing, but also kind of kind of what the nuances are and impact is on what our industry is doing and and the client need and how we serve that better.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm also curious, just um.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: To your point, you know, so that it is so critical to have that expansive broad view of almost the generalist marketer of old.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in a world where we're increasingly seeing more specialism for marketers.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do you see that sort of tension between the kind of understanding the generalist perspective but but playing your part as a specialist?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's about how you set up your teams.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So there's, you know, there's there's a you know, there's a place for specialists, absolutely, um, and there's a place for generalists.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it's how you set up the teams in such a way that they're working, you know, whether you call that agile or how, you know, whatever, whatever terms you're you use, but you know, that you're setting up um the environment so that that all those people can come together and and add their add their part in a really sort of collaborative way, because what you don't want to happen is that you know, the digital people are working in a silo, the events people are working in a silo, the creative people are working in a silo, and um no one's communicating with each other, and suddenly you realise two two two teams are doing essentially the same piece of work.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I and I think so it's it's the way you set up um and the sort of the way you set up the teams, the cadence of how you meet and how you communicate.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that's you know, that's really how you bring out the best of having specialists and and and generalists.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, on that, I was hearing, given how the events um have changed in the industry, how people are increasingly putting kind of event strategy next door to sort of the the tech team, so that you're really seeing that sort of sit centrally together now, so that you get the best of best of both the sort of the strategy for it as well as the facilitation.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm conscious just um again, whilst I have you, Alex, is just to kind of reflect on any other sort of tips you might have for our listeners when it comes to their own careers, um, possible challenges, and and sort of how they are thoughtful and purposeful about building you know a successful career, being an influencer themselves.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's a big big question.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I think um, you know, ultimately it comes down to kind of what gets you out of bed in the in the morning.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you need to be happy.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So what work out what makes you happy, work out what makes you motivated and fulfills you.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that will be different for everybody.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's it is worth spending the time thinking about right, what what is it for me?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I here today?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what what do I want to achieve from my career goals?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: But also um, what are my red lines?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what will I not do?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, whether, and and that's you know, that might be um, you know, if you're a parent or you're a carer or you, you know, you've got a hobby or whatever it is, you know, to make sure you have that sort of balance.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think, you know, you also really, I would say, you know, one of my tips is to really know your know your business, know your clients.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we sort of joke about know what your clients had for breakfast, you know, you really need to understand who they are as a as a cohort.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I think, you know, just going back to my earlier point, um, one of the things that someone asked me once is, you know, can you have it all?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I again I thought that's a big question.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think you you can have it all, but it's about what that it, you know, that it and that all is to you, is something you have to define for yourself.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, you you need to understand what your all is.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you need to spend some time thinking about it, you need to have people around you that can help you to to reach you know your your your your all, um, um whether that's mentors, supporters, you know, managers, team, stakeholders, whoever that is, friends and family, of course.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think, you know, I think all of those things just have a well-rounded um view on the world.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, in my kitchen at home, we have this, I'm sure many of you do, have this like poster up, uh, typography is very very uh popular at the moment.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it and it just sort of simply says work hard, play hard, be kind.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's our kind of that's our sort of family motto.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose that's what I I try and you know try and do at work as well.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's just awesome.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing I can add to that apart from just uh thank you so much for such you know candidness and openness and share your experiences and and thoughts.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um really appreciate your time today, and best of luck for for the award.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And to you, thanks very much.