Latest / Real Estate for Real Life / Episode 9 • She Became the Only Partner by 34 - Here’s How • with Nicole Torres

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Episode 9 • She Became the Only Partner by 34 - Here’s How • with Nicole Torres · Real Estate for Real Life

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On Real Estate for Real Life podcasts, we sit down with
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standout business leaders to unpack what's actually working.
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How they scale, lead teams, win clients and build businesses
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that last. We're your hosts.
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I'm Courtney Gauchman. And I'm Ryan Wilson, thanks for
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tuning in. Thank you for joining us on Real
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Estate for Real Life. I'm Courtney Gauchman and today
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we decided to trade in Ryan Wilson for a new Co host.
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I'm here with Ashley Kinney. She's a realtor at Wilson Group
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and we have an amazing guest with us as well, Nicole Torres,
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who's a partner at David Camille Law Firm, and we're excited to
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have you. Thank you.
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I'm excited to be here. Awesome.
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So we'll dive right in. We, we wanted Nicole to come on
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this podcast because at just 35 years old, six years into being
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in real estate law, you became one of the only partners at your
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firm. And we love seeing anyone
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succeed, but especially a female succeed in business like that.
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And we want to hear a little bit more about how that happened,
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how you fast tracked your career and were able to hit that
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milestone so quickly. Yeah, it was.
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I was actually 34, which is, I know, I know it was January of
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last year. I turned 35 in June.
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And I've had a lot of people say that to me.
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I've only been in the industry, you know, five years at the
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time, and now it's six years. You know, this was really,
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really fast. It's really the way that I
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operate. I am not the type of person to
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just do something halfway or, you know, to just do something
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just to say that I'm doing it. And when I started working for
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my now partner David, when he hired me, I was just a fresh
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associate. I'd only known about real estate
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law because I had bought and sold homes with my now husband
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and we had used my partner David.
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So when I reached out to him, I said, hey, I'm just looking at
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network. You know, you seem to really
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love what you do. This seems to be a really good
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area of the lot of want to practice.
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Took me on as an associate and said, listen, I'll teach you
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everything you know that you will want to know and need to
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know to be in this industry. And I said, all right, and I'm
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going to help you run it. And I think he didn't really
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take me very seriously at first. He's like, OK, we'll see about
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that kid. You know, we have a bigger age
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gap between the two of us. And I think, you know, there is
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it's kind of a rumor, but it's a bit true.
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I think that people, you know, in our age group at a little bit
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younger don't like to work hard. I don't think that's true.
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Clearly, I don't act that way. But I think when I said to him,
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you know, I'm going to help you run this company, he was like,
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yeah, OK, we'll see what you made-up.
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And, yeah, here I was five years later.
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And, you know, with him getting a little bit older, I think he
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really saw me as kind of his secession plan.
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And, you know, I tried to really show him through consistency and
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hard work. I'm not just here to show up
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every day. I'm here to do a really, really
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good job. You know, I put in the hours, I
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put in the time, but I think the biggest thing for me is just
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constantly been learning. I never approached a situation
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like I know everything there is to know about this.
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You know, once I learned about it a little bit, I've always
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tried to keep my ears open to everything.
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But for me, I think hard work is just the key.
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You know, you can teach anyone to do anything in any industry,
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but if the person doesn't have the foundation to want to work
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hard, they're only going to go so far.
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Right, right. I, I couldn't agree with you
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more. I think ultimately that drive
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and that work ethic is going to supersede talent any day.
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We kind of say that like consistency will always get you
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further and that, that hard work and that, that effort and energy
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that you're putting in. But also there's got to be
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talent, right? Like in five years to be able
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to, to excel that quickly. It's, it's incredibly
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impressive, but I also love that you set your eyes on that prize.
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Like right off the bat I did it's.
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Kind of my MO with everything, like when I played sports, you
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know, through college I played softball and I was a three-year
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captain. Like I said, I don't just do
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something. I always excel to be a leader
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and I don't know, maybe I just like to be in charge.
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I really, really enjoy leading. I very much enjoy working really
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hard and reaping the benefits of working hard, but I also really
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enjoy uplifting other people around me.
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So it's not as though, you know, I had this race to the top and I
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was trying to leave everybody in the dust.
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I very much, especially in our industry on the attorney side,
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it's very male dominant still. So I very much, you know, still
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to this day, I want to continue to work as hard as I can to be
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as successful as I can. But to bring up especially these
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younger female associates with me, you know, along the way.
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And I was actually talking to one of my associates this
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morning and I said, I think there's this misconception,
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especially for the older generation of females that are
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in the business world, that the pie is only so big.
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And if if you know, you're getting a piece of the pie, I'm
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getting less of the pie. And we're really trying to turn
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the table. I think, you know, women like
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us, we're saying, no, the pie just, it just gets bigger,
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right? We can just expand on that and
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doing things where we're networking, whether it's with
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women like yourselves that are successful or even other
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attorneys in the industry. We're showing no, we can all be
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successful here and lift each other up because if you're
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holding down another person, you're going to hold yourself
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down to 1. 100%. Absolutely.
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It's also kind of what you're talking about is similar to what
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we say on our team, right? There's market share, right?
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So there's strength in everyone on your team growing and selling
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together. Because ultimately you also
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mentioned learning, right? You're learning from one another
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and beyond the learning aspect of learning from each other and
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through each other's experiences and the different transactions
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you're doing together, you're also helping your business grow.
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So for us, it's, we're not competitors.
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There's plenty for everyone, right?
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So like you said, there's, there's enough pieces of the pie
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to go around, right? But it's also the more of that
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pie that your company as a whole can get exactly the bigger your
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company can grow. Exactly.
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And you know, in in my opinion, if one of my associates really
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hits it off with a real estate agent, because obviously that's
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how you know, we bring in business on the real estate
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attorney side is to make friends with agents.
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You know, you get to know them, earn their business and earn
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their trust. If one of my associates starts
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doing that with an agent, even an agent I used to do business
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with, that's fantastic. I'm not everybody's cup of tea
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and that's completely fine, right?
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So maybe this agent and that attorney just happened to gel
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better that I think that's fantastic and that's great.
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And I also think it gives me the opportunity to then create new
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contacts that I otherwise would not have been able to touch base
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with. Exactly.
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When you started at DC law, were any of the other attorneys like
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put off by your drive or was everyone like very accepting of
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that, especially as like a younger female coming in?
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Yeah, I think it was one of those things where I was
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definitely vocal about it with my now partner.
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You know, I'm going to, I'm going to help you do this and I
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am going to be a leader in this firm with you.
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I outside of, you know, saying that to him, I never tried to
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say it, you know, in a way that talked down to the other
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associates. I think there is a way to set
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goals for yourself without making others around you that
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are in a similar position feel belittled by that.
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So I always tried to stay very respectful of that.
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At the same time, I think they can tell I'm a no BS person and
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I'm not going to not take a seat at the table just because it
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might make someone else feel uncomfortable.
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I know that I've earned what I have and I've put in the time
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and I've put in the hours. And I think there's a lot to be
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said when you're the person. It's almost like dating, right?
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So you start dating someone in the first couple of months,
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they're on their best behavior and they treat you so well and
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they answer every text. And, and then over time, you
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really get to see who that person is.
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And does that stuff continue or does it kind of fall by the
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wayside because the consistency goes away.
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And for me, I feel like I've set that same consistency from my
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first day at the firm. I show up early.
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I'm fully invested the time that I'm there.
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If I have to stay late, I will stay as late as I have to.
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And you know, in our industry, we have to answer the phone at
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night time on the weekends, on a Sunday.
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What's a holiday, what's a vacation?
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You know, we don't have one. So for me, that's just kind of
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the tone that I've always tried to set.
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And now having younger associates, I think it it shows
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them, hey, these things are possible.
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You would just have to work really hard for them for a
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really long time. It's not about being on your
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best behavior for those first couple of months.
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It's consistency over time and building relationships and
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building trust. So I don't think that the other
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associates, you know, at the time I started, we were also
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smaller firm. I think we only had four
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associates who are now up to 9. There's 9 total attorneys at the
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firm. So I think we were just in a bit
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of a different position. And now, you know, obviously my
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partner and I, you know, we're leading the firm.
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A lot of the other attorneys are bringing in business now too,
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which is great. It's not just David bringing in
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business or myself bringing in business.
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We're trying to elevate everybody.
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That's amazing. And that's how you really truly
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can grow your brand, grow your company and actually like start
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to expand, which I know you have some plans about that, which I'd
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love to hear a little more about that at some point too.
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But I do think, you know, going back to Ashley's question and
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kind of is like, did that make it an interesting dynamic,
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right, with your peers that you were so driven and you were so
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hungry. But one thing you said at the
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very beginning is that you've been learning for all these
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years too, right? And I do think that if you come
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into anything, right? So any industry that you're in
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with the mindset of you're hungry, you're driven, you're
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consistent. So you show up every single day
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and you're, you're always, you know, giving the same level of
9:30
energy service and your expectation is or you're
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exceeding expectations, right? Ultimately, when you also have
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the mindset of being open to learning, you're really, truly
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taking things in and actually being a bigger and better part
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of the firm, right, Because you're not a know it all.
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And ultimately it's like you're creating an environment for
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people to also want to learn. Yes.
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So that leadership standard that you set is probably the trickle
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down effect with now the nine other attorneys in your in your
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firm, they're all probably coming in with a similar
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mentality. Hopefully, right, Hopefully
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they're emulating the things that you show up and and yeah,
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want to lead with. And we've always tried to have a
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very high standard in terms of obviously the legal services
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that we provide. We are attorneys, you know, we,
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we want to provide great legal services.
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And when I say I'm always learning and always trying to
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learn and trying to grow, I don't just mean on the legal
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side because as you all know, we face things that are a once in a
10:27
lifetime. You know, there's a weird legal
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nuance that happens in our world that you people will say, Oh my
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gosh, I've never seen this before.
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This has never happened. You're always learning in that
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regard. But from a personal standpoint
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too, I feel like I'm always learning about people and what
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makes people tick and how to motivate certain people and how
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to talk to certain people. I mean, we get to see people
10:50
that we work with just from the client side that are having the
10:52
best, they're in the best years of their life or they're having
10:55
the best day of their life. They just got married, they just
10:57
had a baby, they're moving into a new house.
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And then I have a client whose daughter just passed away at the
11:02
age of 30 because she was ill. I mean, you really have to know
11:05
how to see people and meet them where they're at and, and speak
11:09
to people. That is definitely something
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that takes, you know, the emotional intelligence piece.
11:14
That's definitely something that takes a lot of time.
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And there's, you can't teach that to someone in a day.
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So when for me, when I'm trying to mentor these younger
11:22
associates, it's not just on real estate law, because again,
11:26
I can teach them that it's really, hey, you know, when you
11:29
sent out this e-mail to that client, make sure you're putting
11:32
yourself in their shoes and you're, you're saying, am I
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going to panic them? You know, when I send this out
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or how am I, you know, approaching this person?
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Or even when it comes to building their businesses within
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our own firm. You cannot take someone out to a
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coffee one time and they're going to entrust you with all of
11:47
their business. It takes a really, a really long
11:50
time. So I try to approach people as I
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want to get to know you as AI mean.
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When I met Ashley, we were saying earlier, I literally met
11:58
her in the rain. We were holding signs in the
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center of Shrewsbury freezing. And, you know, her sister
12:04
introduced me to her and she said, oh, she's a real estate
12:06
agent. And I said, oh, I'm a real
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estate attorney. But it wasn't like, now you're
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going to work with me and that's it.
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You know, it takes time. You have to earn someone's trust
12:15
and respect. And now Ashley and I, I mean, we
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talk almost every day. I.
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Loved her after we hung out the other day and I was like, I
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think we're getting serious. Yes, it was a great date.
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It was a really great date. But those are the types of
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things that, you know, at, at our firm, we really try to, to
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set the bar for, for it's not just the legal side of things.
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It's really treating clients with respect, cleaning, treating
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our partners, whether it's a loan officer or an agent, always
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trying to understand where they're coming from, you know,
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explaining things to people in a way that they're comfortable
12:46
with them, that they can understand.
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Yeah, it's such a high stress moment in time, even though it's
12:51
like super exciting, someone's buying their first house or, you
12:54
know, whatever the scenario is. Some people are going through
12:56
nasty divorces and like you said, like you're always trying
13:00
to put yourself in their shoes and just remain like a voice of
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calm and understanding from their perspective.
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And like I've personally, I feel like every transaction I learned
13:09
something new, whether it's from or real estate side or if it's
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like the client that I'm working with.
13:14
Yeah, yeah, Understanding people, understanding tact.
13:17
It is what one of the top three most stressful experiences of
13:21
human being goes through. I think they say it's death,
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divorce and buying or selling a home, right?
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So we get to be in that field, in that industry.
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And I think that that's one of the nuances that makes this
13:33
industry so difficult to excel at, right, Because you can't
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just be a good salesperson or you can't just be a good
13:38
attorney. You can't just be put it
13:41
building relationships right? You have to have so.
13:44
Many you have to be a good attribute.
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Yes, psychology. Would probably be helpful here.
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Exactly. But the attributes that you have
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to have is also like knowing how to deliver messages.
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Like for you especially you're delivering things that like from
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the law side of things can come across more concerning scarier
14:03
meeting, right? Yeah, more exactly.
14:05
And also their money is always on the line when you commit to
14:08
play, right? Exactly.
14:09
So in the beginning we get to show them houses.
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That's a little more fun. We're shopping, right?
14:13
Like a lot of times it's just window shopping for a little
14:15
while, literally. And then from you like from your
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end of it, it's once you come into play, there's deposits
14:21
being put down, there's massive amounts of paperwork being
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signed, purchase and sales going on.
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You know, like all these details of things that it's real.
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And at that point when shit gets real, like we start to see a
14:35
different side of people. The clients can change a little
14:38
bit. The agents can start to have
14:41
different dynamics due to the clients getting more stressed,
14:43
right? So it's like what you're talking
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about here is in the five years that you grew your business,
14:48
right? You were able to also catapult
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that emotional intelligence too, right?
14:53
Right. And now you're even teaching it
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to the other attorneys in your firm, which is another huge
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skill set too, right? That's hard.
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So how did you get to be perfect?
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It's what I'm really wondering. Can I ask my husband?
15:05
No, I think I've always had. I've always tried to see things
15:08
from other people's perspective. I think I've always, since the
15:11
time I could talk, I've been like a 50 year old stuck in a
15:15
younger person's body. I've always been an old soul.
15:18
It's funny. I was, I'm going to be 36 this
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year and I said to my husband, I feel like I'm almost at the age
15:23
I was born at, you know, I like I was meant to be.
15:25
I've always been, you know, 40 or 50 and I'm almost there, you
15:28
know, emotionally I'm almost, I'm almost or physically, I'm
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almost caught up with where I am emotionally.
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And for me, I, maybe I'm just empathetic.
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I, I've always tried to just meet people where they're at.
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I don't like feel, I don't like being made to feel stupid.
15:42
I don't like being made, you know, to feel like someone's
15:44
talking down to me or trying to talk over my head.
15:47
I don't like to make people feel that way.
15:50
I also like to like the people that I work with and like the
15:53
people that I'm around and that I surround myself with.
15:56
I'm a very big believer that you are who you surround yourself
15:59
with and I don't surround myself with negative people.
16:03
My husband is one of the most, if not the most positive person
16:06
I have ever met and I couldn't definitely could not have made
16:09
partner without him because that takes a team, especially when
16:12
you have children and there's a lot of dynamics going on.
16:16
But I do, I feel like I've just always been an old soul in that
16:20
way. I just, I've always seen the
16:22
world from other people's perspective.
16:25
And I think that is the biggest key to being, you know,
16:29
successful. For me, I do feel like it's in
16:31
any industry, if you can put yourself in the person across
16:34
from you shoes, you can anticipate what they're going to
16:38
say, what they're going to need or how to just meet them where
16:40
they're at. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned
16:43
that about your husband and kind of the village it takes
16:46
essentially, right? People talk about that all the
16:47
time when it comes to raising children and and being a parent.
16:51
However, there is this huge key piece of where you're at in your
16:54
career. A lot of times your success is
16:57
going to be based on where you're at in your life too,
17:00
right? You know, a lot of times, like
17:02
we know sacrifice has to be made, but if you're with a
17:04
really good partner or you're just in a really healthy mental
17:09
state, right, you are so much more likely to be able to hit
17:13
all the goals you have for yourself, right?
17:15
So for us on our team, we're constantly focusing on personal
17:18
goals, right? Every single week in our sales
17:20
meeting, we don't just sit there and talk about sales and talk
17:23
about like status in work. We also talk about did you
17:27
accomplish the things you wanted to in your personal life?
17:29
Whether it's workout goals or whether it's I usually do a goal
17:33
to have like a solo date with one of my kids or sometimes it's
17:36
to slowly redecorate my house. It's about also putting those
17:40
priorities first to making sure that you're actually giving time
17:44
to the people that around you that are going to make a massive
17:47
impact in your happiness and your bigger goal, right?
17:51
Like your, your big career milestones.
17:53
So I love that. I love hearing that your husband
17:56
was a huge part of it. Yes, he has been.
17:59
I mean, he's my big, I could like cry thinking about.
18:01
He's been my obviously my best friend, biggest supporter and
18:05
it's always been, you know, he's at a different point in his
18:07
career than me. He's been, he's 14 years older
18:09
than me, very, very well established in his career.
18:12
So he has the benefit of being able to look kind of in the rear
18:14
view and say, Hey, I remember how hard I had to hustle at the
18:17
beginning. You do whatever you have to do.
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Like if it's honey, I got 4 work dinners this week, or I've got
18:24
you 6 coffees or you got to take the kids here, you've got to do
18:27
this. You know, we we're constantly
18:29
like we're A-Team and we're constantly just shifting who's
18:32
going to do this? Who's going to do that?
18:33
Who's going to but but a very emotionally supportive like you
18:37
do whatever you have to do to succeed.
18:39
He believes in me in the sense that he knows I'm not going to
18:43
take that time that is away from my family and I'm I'm not going
18:46
to go and half ass something. I'm not going to squander that.
18:49
That's also key. Doing a million networking
18:52
events or doing a million coffee dates with people does not mean
18:56
a single thing. If you are going into it 1 foot
18:58
in the door and 1 foot out the door, you're going into with
19:00
your phone on the table and you're thinking about where you
19:02
have to be really going into it. If you're taking time away from
19:06
your family, right, to do something to help you with work,
19:09
you have to be there and 100% present.
19:13
And people will say to me, how do you balance it all?
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Because I do a lot obviously at work, I do a lot with my kids.
19:17
I'm involved in my town. I say when I'm doing something
19:22
for work, I try to be 100% present at work.
19:24
When I'm with my kids, I try to be 100% present with my kids.
19:28
That's not to say that there's not crossover, but I don't think
19:31
it's a balance. Sometimes the kids have to take
19:33
precedent, right? Sometimes work has to take
19:35
precedent. It's all a shifting balance.
19:38
But I totally agree without a supportive partner, it's it's
19:41
really hard, especially when there's little kids involved.
19:43
It's very, very hard. But you.
19:45
Have both kids when you started at the law firm, Yes.
19:48
And so they were little. They were little.
19:50
So my son Jax was not even a year old.
19:55
He was a baby. I'm lying.
19:57
He was a year old and my daughter was 3.
20:00
So they were very so like. So you are a very new mom.
20:03
Very new mom. My, you know, that first year
20:06
associate salary went entirely to daycare, which was just like,
20:10
oh, take it. But again, it was one of those
20:12
things where it was a short term sacrifice for a long term gain
20:16
and you're not going to see the dividends for that for you.
20:18
I mean, I'm seeing it now and I still feel like I have to work
20:22
really, really hard. But yeah, it's it was, oh, that
20:27
it was tough. You balanced that part of it,
20:30
especially being like a fairly new mom, starting a whole entire
20:33
new career. And then it's like, where's you
20:36
almost have to wonder, like where the sacrifice is going to
20:39
be. Yeah.
20:39
Because you have to throw yourself into this career 100%.
20:42
You can do, like you said, 1 foot in, in one foot.
20:45
Yeah. I think I the sacrifice was for
20:48
me personally. Like I stopped doing things for
20:51
myself. I stopped taking care of myself.
20:54
Not to say I was just like, oh, you know, whatever, just sitting
20:58
on the couch and rotting, like when I wasn't working, but I
21:01
wasn't taking my mental health as seriously.
21:03
I wasn't make sure I was sleep, was not making sure I was
21:06
sleeping enough. The things that now I, I pull
21:09
back and I say, OK, am I sleeping 7 to 8 hours a night?
21:12
You know, am I still cooking homemade meals for my family?
21:14
These are the things that I really love to do that I really
21:16
care about. That stuff definitely fell by
21:19
the wayside the first year. And you can be as successful as
21:22
you want to be, but if you're losing yourself in the process,
21:25
what's it worth? You know, it's the same thing,
21:27
like if I lost, if my husband was like, this is not working,
21:30
you know, for us too, it wouldn't be worth it for me.
21:33
That sacrifice isn't worth it, but I do think so from, from the
21:37
sounds of everything, what I, what I love you saying and what
21:39
I love hearing is you, you did it for a period of time.
21:43
You knew what you were sacrificing, but then you also
21:46
were self aware enough to also start to notice when you can't
21:49
sacrifice too much for yourself as well, too.
21:51
I, I did the same thing as well. I had twins and I had them
21:55
during COVID, during the global pandemic, right?
21:57
And it's one of those things where you can go for a while at
22:01
that pace, But then you do need to have a reality check with
22:04
yourself of, OK, I need to put a life vest on first before like,
22:08
you know, taking care of everyone else around you kind of
22:10
a thing. And I do think that that's
22:12
something where you go back to what you said before that about
22:15
your present in the moment with whatever it is you're doing,
22:18
right? We've had some conversations
22:20
with people for years on our team that they would be saying,
22:24
I'm going to this networking event, I'm going to that
22:26
networking event. And I met these this many people
22:29
and I would say to them, but what's the follow up, right?
22:32
Because it's not quantity, it's quality.
22:34
And I think when it comes down to what you also mentioned that
22:36
you only really want to work with people you like.
22:38
Well, when you get to a certain point in your career, you
22:41
actually earn the right to start to turn down business if it's
22:44
not the right fit for us. We always say too we attract a
22:48
little bit more of like the customer who is going to like us
22:51
and we're going to like them kind of a thing, which is a
22:53
really beautiful gift in this business.
22:56
But the other piece of it though, is really saying to
22:58
yourself and kind of having that eye opening ability to make sure
23:03
you're making these smart decisions that are going to give
23:06
you more joy, fill your cup in a better way because you're
23:09
opening up space. Every time you say no to the
23:11
wrong client, you're opening up space for better opportunities
23:15
that align more with what you want.
23:17
And then truly you can get ahead faster, right?
23:21
So also being present, everyone wants to multitask nowadays
23:24
because all we do is have these, like, mini little computers in
23:27
our pockets at all times where you can constantly be completely
23:32
sidetracked in any given moment. Right.
23:34
How many times have we realized, like, how much time we wasted
23:36
scrolling on social media when we're like, Oh my God, that much
23:39
time just went by. Yeah, how?
23:41
Yeah. Like and.
23:42
It's intent. They do that on purpose.
23:44
It is so that you waste. Your time.
23:45
It's a business. It's a business, right?
23:47
And they're selling us things and I'm constantly buying it.
23:49
Let's be honest, right? TikTok shot.
23:51
I love it, baby. They've got me the hook line and
23:53
second thing, know what I like? And I like when they give it to
23:55
me. Yeah, but yeah.
23:57
But other than that, though, to me, I love, I love the idea of
24:01
being present in the moment. And I do think that the more you
24:04
can force yourself to be present in these moments, you can
24:08
actually work less and you can work truly smarter, not harder,
24:12
correct? And I think that that is, that
24:15
is the echelon, right? You've said that a couple times,
24:18
but like, that is the upper echelon of saying, like I've
24:20
made it in my career of understanding how to get the
24:25
clients I want, how to work with people I enjoy, right?
24:28
And then how to also be present in the moment, whether it's
24:30
being a parent or with your coworkers or with your clients,
24:34
whatever it might be. You are going to get so much
24:36
more out of life if you're capable of turning on those
24:39
switches and shutting off the noise.
24:41
I totally agree. And it allows you to be more
24:43
efficient. Yeah.
24:44
So now, you know, if I say to myself, I'm going to take this,
24:46
you know, sometimes Saturday, Sundays, we're working, I'm on
24:48
my computer. I'm from 10:00 AM or I'm
24:51
answering Ashley's text messages from 10:00 AM to 11:00 AM.
24:54
I'm working on my computer. That means I'm not getting my
24:57
kids a snack while I'm doing that.
24:58
It's, hey, you guys can wait like you have to wait.
25:02
But conversely, tomorrow I'm going to be a mystery reader at
25:05
my son's school. I have no problem saying to a
25:09
client that wants to do a call, I have to take the next 45
25:12
minutes with my son. You can wait.
25:14
I'm comfortable saying that. And I've actually found that
25:18
people have responded very well like wow, good for you know,
25:21
that's amazing. Good for you.
25:23
You know, you're not, it's not sacrificing everything else for
25:26
the sake of work, but I'm also, it's not sacrificing work just
25:31
for the sake of kids, family, spouse.
25:33
You know, it has to be a push and a pull, especially for a
25:36
working mom. It has to and I have found and
25:40
you know, it's going to sound a little bit cliche, but if I take
25:43
care of me first, like you said, you put on your own oxygen mask
25:48
1st, I'm going to show up better for my children, for my husband,
25:52
for my job. But if I come into work and I'm
25:54
a hot mask because, you know, I'm like, have I brushed my
25:57
teeth today? I feel like I'm starting work on
25:59
the back foot as opposed to Ashley knows I like to get up
26:02
very early every day, but as opposed?
26:04
To tell them what time you like to.
26:05
Start your day. I get up at 3:30.
26:07
Oh my God, I know. So you get up in the middle of
26:10
the night. That's the middle of the night.
26:11
Try hard so it's my husband wakes up exceptionally.
26:14
Early up. He's up very, very early, so
26:16
I've kind of followed in that footstep.
26:17
But I have learned to cherish that time for me because if
26:22
someones bothering me at 4:00 in the morning, it's an emergency.
26:25
I mean, it is like we're going to the hospital emergency.
26:29
That is the time that I get to myself.
26:30
I have a hot cup of coffee, right?
26:32
It sets me up to be successful. And I know like people will say,
26:37
oh, like, you know, successful people wake up early in the day.
26:39
I can see why. I can definitely see why a lot
26:42
of people like to wake up early because you you're giving
26:45
yourself time that you wouldn't otherwise have.
26:47
I don't work well at night time. I just my brain, it hits 7:00 or
26:50
8:00 at night and I just turn into motion.
26:52
I want to fall asleep learning yourself.
26:54
Hey, what's the time? You know what time of day works
26:57
best for you? What time of day do you want to
26:59
give back to yourself? Because we all know between
27:01
what, 7:30 in the morning and 8:00 at night?
27:04
Real estates, real estating. We have to be on our phone, we
27:07
have to be answering calls, text messages, emails.
27:10
I've found for me that early in the morning time allows me to
27:12
just give back to myself, focus on me, so I can just show up for
27:16
everybody else. Yeah, because how many times are
27:17
you like I'll work out later and then the day goes.
27:20
Absolutely, yes. And then like I didn't work out
27:22
and then that happens day after day.
27:24
You're like, it's been 6 months. Yeah, yeah, 2.
27:26
Years. Yep.
27:29
Like Courtney said, it's something that we talk about is
27:31
like making ourselves a priority, and we talk about it
27:33
every Tuesday. Did you do what you said you
27:35
were gonna do? And when you're like, again,
27:37
didn't do it? Yep.
27:38
It really makes you think about what you're prioritizing.
27:41
But I love you have that accountability cuz a lot of
27:43
people don't. It's very easy to lie to
27:46
yourself. It's very easy to make excuses
27:48
for you. Oh, well, let me like I only
27:49
missed three days last week when it was really five.
27:51
But who's, who's holding you accountable?
27:53
You know, and going back to having a good partner, my
27:56
partner holds me accountable. Like if I say I'm going to do
27:58
something and I'd like say for this podcast, I was very, very
28:01
excited. I'm still excited to be here.
28:03
But if I chickened out and I was like, I'm too nervous, he would
28:05
100% say, why would you give up an opportunity like that?
28:09
You were really excited. You should push yourself, you
28:11
know, have confidence in yourself, have faith in
28:13
yourself. Having a group of people or a
28:15
person to to hold you accountable to what you say
28:17
you're going to do, that's huge. So I love that you guys do that.
28:20
I think that's great. Yeah.
28:21
Yeah, I think it's also we we're at a point where we know
28:24
especially with the kids and the ages that they're at time flies
28:28
by, right. So for me, I love the weekly
28:33
check in because we make annual goals, then we do quarterly
28:36
goals. Like all of a sudden 1/4 has
28:38
gone like that, right? Like how?
28:40
How? Quickly do we March?
28:41
Right. We, we look at every every month
28:43
we're like, how did that month just go by so fast?
28:45
How did that year just go by so fast?
28:47
Yes, your time is so precious. And I remember when I first had
28:50
my kids, someone said something along the lines of like, you
28:53
only have 18 summers with your kids.
28:55
And I was like, well, that's the saddest thing to think about,
28:59
right? Like before they're adults and
29:01
they have their own lives and they're like, they're working
29:03
full time and they no longer have these like lazy, easy
29:05
summers. And that to me was such a hard
29:09
hitting. Truth Eye.
29:10
Opening, yes, of thinking to myself, OK, like it's all
29:15
fleeting, it's all going to go by so fast.
29:17
But I'm driven. I want to have a super
29:20
successful career. I want my kids to see that.
29:23
And I also want to make sure that I'm super present as a mom
29:25
as well, too. So I think that those types of
29:28
things where if you're able to check yourself and really, truly
29:31
say I have an hour where I can be on my computer.
29:34
I loved that you said the kids will have to get their own snack
29:36
or they will have to, you know, kind of fend for themselves or
29:38
your husband has to pick up the slack in that time.
29:41
It helps teach your kids something there too, that you
29:43
committed to a job, you committed to a career, and
29:46
commitments matter too, right? So you're showing them by
29:49
practice and by them actually watching and being exposed to
29:52
that. You're showing them a very
29:53
valuable lesson that you don't just drop everything and forego
29:56
your commitment to work because they needed something.
29:59
And you have something that's for you.
30:00
You have your own identity. Like my, my mom stayed home with
30:04
us, which was great in so many ways.
30:06
But I remember getting a little older and thinking to myself,
30:08
like, wow, she mom really needs something that's for her, you
30:11
know, something that's just for her.
30:12
And for me, working and being able to show I have a daughter,
30:16
an older daughter and a younger son, especially being able to
30:19
show my daughter, you can have a family and you can work and you
30:23
can be married, happily married and you can do a date night and
30:28
you can be on your phone, you know, emailing a client.
30:30
You, you can do it all. It's not easy.
30:33
It's very, very hard. It takes a lot of work, but you
30:36
can do it all. But I think again, like we
30:38
talked about at the very, very beginning, the biggest thing is
30:41
just being consistent. Yeah, showing up consistently at
30:44
work, but showing up consistently for your family,
30:47
for your kids, like you're, you're not, you know, the people
30:50
that, oh, it's Monday, here we go again.
30:52
It's like, no, it's Monday. Like we have a whole new week.
30:54
I know that sounds annoying and it's like I drink too much
30:56
coffee, which I do, but look at it as an opportunity.
30:59
It's I showing up consistency right every single week, day in
31:05
and day out and finding things. If I didn't love what I do, I
31:08
wouldn't do it because I'm an all in or I'm out type of
31:12
person. Like if it's either, it's either
31:13
a hell yes or it's Nope, I'm out.
31:15
She's. Like a female version of Ryan?
31:16
Yeah. But I think I think the the cool
31:21
thing of what you're saying though is like when you are
31:22
super present and you are really focused, like I kind of have a
31:25
similar feeling, right? I live my weekends to the
31:27
fullest with my kids. Obviously I'm still on my
31:29
computer here and there. I'm still working, getting stuff
31:31
done. Also answer.
31:32
But yes, you text. A lot of people, Ashley not.
31:36
Feeling as special now, you know?
31:39
It's like we live to the fullest on our weekends.
31:42
But I am super excited for a Monday and recently I'm hearing
31:44
my little 6 year olds saying to me, I can't wait to go back to
31:48
kindergarten today, right? They want to go to school and
31:50
I'm excited for them because it's, we had an awesome weekend,
31:54
but we also are excited to get back to the routine too, right?
31:57
So it's you, if you really do put your all into the things
32:01
you're doing. I think that that's what I'm
32:03
hearing you say a lot too. It's it allows for that
32:06
consistency. It allows for you to feel like
32:08
you're kind of accomplishing and feeling like you have it all
32:11
right. Whereas I think that I feel like
32:14
social media and mainstream media have made that, can you
32:17
really have it all feel like it's it's something that's
32:20
unattainable? Well, it is attainable, yeah.
32:23
But it is attainable if you're not putting too much pressure on
32:26
what that looks like. It can't look perfect.
32:28
Yeah, if you're consistently trying away at the thing and
32:31
you're not trying to have it all in, you know, instantaneous snap
32:35
of a finger, then you're actually, you're setting more
32:38
realistic, like goals, more realistic ideas of what that
32:43
means. And that can mean that, hey, you
32:44
have a nice lazy Saturday or Sunday with your family.
32:46
Maybe you watch a movie instead of, like, going and, you know,
32:50
doing some major sport that can be a winner, too.
32:53
Yes. And it's not a really wonderful
32:55
thing. Exactly.
32:56
And for me, there's no such thing as perfect.
32:58
And people that say, oh, you're doing it all, you have it all.
33:01
It's like, what is your definition of it all?
33:03
Yeah, What is your definition of perfect?
33:05
Because I could, I could tell you some stories like, you know,
33:08
we're all far from that. For me though, it's not about do
33:13
I have goals of like what I want to do in sales?
33:16
Absolutely. Do I have, you know, personal
33:18
goals of, of certain things, Absolutely.
33:20
Places I want to travel? Absolutely.
33:21
But for me, what am I doing? Like you said, the years fly.
33:26
So in 10 years from now, you know, whatever my career looks
33:29
like and whatever my firm looks like, that's great.
33:32
But the 10 years that filled that gap, it's not about, you
33:36
know, where I end up. It's like, what did I do to fill
33:38
those years, those years that have flown by?
33:40
It's the day in, day out, finding little things that along
33:44
the journey like people, Oh, it's the journey that matters.
33:47
Like it's just like training for a marathon.
33:49
It's not actually about the day of the race For me, the beauty
33:52
in that is all of the training that leads up to it.
33:54
Like when I think about making partner in that moment when I
33:58
signed, you know, to, to become a partner of the firm, it was
34:01
one of the proudest moments of my life, but not because I was
34:04
physically signing. And I was like, I've envisioned
34:06
this since I wanted to be an attorney, which is true.
34:10
But it was thinking about all the blood, sweat, tears, hours
34:13
in the car, like driving all over Massachusetts that got me
34:16
there. Finding enjoyment in the journey
34:19
is huge because it makes the the goal feel worth it.
34:23
And you don't lose yourself along the way.
34:24
You don't lose those important relationships along the way.
34:28
That's hugely important for me. So that being said, tell us what
34:32
is 1 trait that every future partner at your firm should have
34:37
right? What do you think is like the
34:38
most important thing? Hard work.
34:40
OK. Hard work and consistency.
34:43
Again, I, I feel like I could teach my 8 year old to do real
34:47
estate right through hard work. If you 2 really two things, hard
34:52
work and kindness. If you work really, really hard.
34:55
I say this to my kids all the time.
34:56
If you become anything, become a hard worker and become a really
34:59
kind person. Because if you treat people with
35:02
kindness and the person knows you're working hard, I cannot
35:05
think of a scenario in which that does not work right.
35:07
Doesn't mean that the person, you know, that associate walking
35:10
into the firm is going to be the best associate we've ever had
35:13
from a legal perspective. But if they work hard and they
35:16
are kind, you will be successful no matter what you do.
35:20
That is the groundwork. Not just at my firm, but that's
35:24
how I try to live my life. I work hard and I try to be a
35:27
kind person. I don't want to be the type of
35:30
person that people walk on egg shells.
35:32
We all have that person in our life.
35:33
You're like, what type of mood are they going to be in today?
35:36
Always act from a place of kindness.
35:38
That doesn't mean you're going to be happy all day, every day.
35:41
That's unrealistic. But always act from a place of
35:43
kindness and always, always work hard.
35:45
Good core values. I love that.
35:47
I love that. So those are definitely some
35:49
core values we try to have here. It's hard, but it's got.
35:53
A really hard yes, but yeah, we definitely do.
35:55
I agree with those. And where, what would you say,
35:58
right. Just in all of your experience
36:00
of working with all different walks of life and a lot of
36:03
attorneys, a lot of real estate agents, etcetera, where do you
36:07
find professionals waste the most time?
36:11
Oh, emailing instead of calling. OK, two-minute phone calls.
36:16
Yeah, I think. E-mail.
36:18
Correct. I think that there is a lot of
36:21
back and forth that happens over emails that you could just pick
36:24
up a call and say, hey, can we just talk this out?
36:27
You know the motion is misconstrued, correct?
36:30
And it's like you, you think you're being sassy or whatever,
36:34
but you're not. Like your tone is so different.
36:36
Correct. Or you you think that you your
36:38
e-mail was fine and then someone reads it.
36:40
How could you say that? You're like, well, that's not
36:42
what I meant. There's a, a quote and I, I
36:45
don't know who said it, so I can't give them the credit.
36:47
But we judge other people by their actions and we judge
36:50
ourselves by our intentions. And every time I read something
36:54
that's an e-mail that I take the wrong way, I always think like,
36:56
where's this Again, I try to be empathetic.
36:58
Where is this person coming from?
36:59
So for me, I, we all know we get stuck on a lot of emails and
37:04
they're very, very long. Pick up the phone.
37:06
And I'll say this to our associates as well.
37:08
Like if you're confused on something or you just want to
37:10
talk it out with another attorney, don't waste your time
37:13
going back and forth and back and forth.
37:14
Pick up the phone. And it also allows you to get to
37:16
know the person on the other side, right?
37:18
Like now if I talk to attorney Ashley the next time we're on a
37:23
deal together, Hey, like, how are you doing?
37:25
You know, you get to know I'm a bit of a personal level.
37:27
I do think that a lot of e-mail, it's like the the meeting that
37:30
could have been, you know, an e-mail.
37:32
I think there's a lot of emails that could have been a quick
37:34
phone call. So I would love for more people
37:36
to just jump on the phone. Yeah, I find too.
37:39
We did a transaction recently that was interesting.
37:43
Yeah. And the seller was representing
37:47
himself. Interesting.
37:49
Yeah. I highly got a love of Fizz
37:51
Bell. Always fun, always fun.
37:54
He, it was very emotional for him because he had a lot of
37:58
things happening in an external life, you know, divorce, other
38:02
things happening. And he, I sent a text message to
38:07
him asking him a question and he called and he lost it on me.
38:10
And I kind of let him. And then I was like, I need you
38:13
to take a breath and understand this is actually the reality.
38:17
And then he was super apologetic.
38:19
But if it was something that was via text, I just could have seen
38:22
it escalating and and being something that probably could
38:25
have been a deal breaker for him because he was just so emotional
38:29
and he just needed a vent. Yes.
38:31
And my sister was in the car with me and I was like having
38:35
this conversation. Then after it was totally fine
38:37
and we hung up. She was like, what was?
38:40
That is a lot, Yes, yes. But I think the the point of
38:44
what you said, though, is it's faster, but it also creates less
38:48
drama, right? Because what you're doing is
38:50
you're squashing that emotion immediately, correct.
38:52
Because he was taking it in a way based on what you had
38:55
mentioned, how he was feeling in the moment.
38:57
Yeah, I think you said that too. And it's one of those things
39:00
where I think that that's such a really, really good nugget right
39:03
there. Because ultimately, like, I
39:05
always think like, oh, where do we waste all our time?
39:07
And I'm like scrolling on social media, like that's what I was
39:09
thinking. But I'm like, no, that's
39:11
actually a brilliant, brilliant little tip right there.
39:13
Because if you could have just picked up the phone quickly, it
39:16
doesn't allow your mind to wander.
39:17
It doesn't allow you to misread an e-mail.
39:19
It doesn't allow you to overthink the e-mail either.
39:23
You're just quickly having a person to person conversation.
39:27
They get to say their side, you say your side, and now it's
39:29
actually much faster. I think at times if you feel
39:32
like you need it in writing, then you follow up after the
39:34
conversation with something in writing and like, hey, we just
39:36
discussed it. Always put a button on it and
39:38
say as discussed, you know, on the phone.
39:41
But I do tell our younger associates, pick up the phone.
39:44
Don't be intimidated. You know, if you're going back
39:46
and forth on something that it's like not a hill you want to die
39:49
on, just pick up a phone and call the other attorney, call
39:52
the client, you know, have a conversation.
39:53
Don't be intimidated by that. Most people are much nicer on
39:57
the phone than they are in an e-mail.
39:58
Yeah, yes. No keyboard warriors.
40:00
Yeah. So what would you say is the
40:02
best way for agents to build relationships with attorneys?
40:07
I would, yes. I love that question.
40:10
I think that the best agents let us do our job and we let the
40:17
agents do their job. I think that there are things I
40:20
am not writing offers for people.
40:22
I'm not doing market comparisons for people.
40:25
I, you know, if a seller starts going down a tangent of well, I
40:28
could have gotten this. Hey, that's really not my lane.
40:31
You know, I you should really talk to your allowing relying on
40:35
each other, right? We have like Ashley and I have a
40:37
trust with each other. We have a bond with each other.
40:39
We respect each other respecting the attorney enough to let them
40:43
be the attorney and expect and demand that the attorney
40:48
respects you enough to do your job too.
40:51
So, you know, having said that, picking up a phone and saying,
40:55
hey, I saw you sent out an e-mail about the mortgage
40:58
contingency or something that's very legally nuanced.
41:01
Can you explain it to me? I wouldn't have word it that
41:03
way. You know, asking questions,
41:05
having that open line of communication, which I think
41:08
takes time, but it does come from that place of mutual
41:11
respect, mutual understanding, right?
41:13
Being willing to say like, I wouldn't have done it that way
41:16
or why would you say something like that?
41:18
Can you explain to me where you're coming from?
41:21
That's huge. But I do think that there are,
41:24
you know, lines there. Everyone has a role in the
41:26
transaction. I think that a a real estate
41:28
attorney is like an umpire. They should be there, right,
41:32
regulating the game. But the best real estate
41:34
attorneys, they're not the ones making waves.
41:36
We do have to make really tough calls sometimes, right?
41:39
We do have to be the bad guy that everybody hates sometimes,
41:41
which is fine. That's part of our role.
41:43
But, you know, letting us do our job and then demanding that the
41:48
attorney lets the agent do their job as well.
41:50
Because you know the clients, a lot of the times we don't meet
41:53
them until the day of the closing.
41:54
If it's a buyer, if it's a seller, I might not never ever
41:57
meet them. You know them.
41:58
You have met their kids, you've met their dog, you've seen what
42:01
color they want in their house. You know them on a more personal
42:03
level. You know, allowing that type of
42:06
relationship to happen on either end I think is very important.
42:09
Yeah. I think in any industry where
42:12
you rely so heavily on partnerships within different
42:16
industries, right, We're essentially in the same
42:18
industry. However, you are in a completely
42:20
different lane. None of us have passed the bar.
42:22
None of us had to take our outside.
42:24
It's a trap. Right.
42:25
Like we didn't have to take our outside.
42:26
We took a very different licensing course than you did.
42:30
So ultimately it's I, I really appreciate and love that you
42:33
said that because I think the more you can have confidence
42:36
within yourself that it's, this is my lane.
42:39
I think the people that crossover into other people's
42:42
lanes in their careers, I feel like it comes from a place of
42:45
not being secure enough in the value that they're offering,
42:49
right? I think the more confident you
42:51
are as a real estate attorney or as a real estate agent or in any
42:55
career out there, the more confident you are with what you
42:57
provide in your service, your level of service.
43:00
You are never trying to step on other people's toes when they
43:03
are the expert in that area. And I think that that's
43:05
ultimately the piece of also being able to have that, being
43:09
present in the moment type of mentality, being able to have
43:13
more, being more efficient is really be confident at being the
43:17
expert at what you do. Yeah.
43:18
And stop trying to do other people's correct.
43:20
I mean, I have people ask me about tax law and I always say,
43:22
listen, I know enough to be dangerous.
43:24
You need to call an accountant. You need to call a tax attorney.
43:26
It's I don't want to misinform you.
43:28
People will ask me, I want to put my house into a trust.
43:31
You know, can you do a trust for me?
43:32
I don't, I'm not an estate attorney.
43:33
You, I have a great referral for you.
43:35
I have a really, really great person that I trust.
43:37
I know is going to be responsive and really great for you.
43:40
That's not my lane. To your point, like I, I stay in
43:43
my lane, I try to know my lane and know it exceptionally well
43:46
because I'm confident in what I do.
43:48
But I definitely try. You know, again, you may not
43:50
have passed the bar, but you are an expert in your industry.
43:54
You know, you know what you're doing in your role much better
43:57
than I do in my role. And having that mutual respect
44:00
there is is huge. OK, so for anyone who wants to
44:04
be able to have mutual respect, work with you, learn more about
44:08
you, laugh, Yeah, get to know you better, what's the best way
44:11
that they can connect? With you, Yeah.
44:13
And they can e-mail me and Torres Torres at camillelaw.com.
44:18
C AM i.e. llaw.com. They can call me.
44:21
They can go to our website. You do prefer calls?
44:25
I do prefer calls through that out.
44:26
Yes, that's perfect. I have an Instagram.
44:29
I don't know who finds a real estate attorney on Instagram,
44:31
but people do. I'm always surprised by that.
44:33
Yes, exactly. So come and find me.
44:35
Awesome. Well, we'll put all your contact
44:37
info in the show notes and we can't thank you enough for
44:39
coming. This was such a good
44:40
conversation. Thank you for having still talk
44:42
to you for another 3045 minutes. I'll come back.
44:44
I have so many more questions, but for the sake of this one, I
44:48
think that we learned a lot of how to fast track a career and
44:53
be hungry. Open to learning while also
44:56
being kind, right? So thank you again.
44:59
Thank you. Thank you.