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What Your Kinks Say About You (According to Psychology) with Aubrey Aust · The Kink Consultant

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It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
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to it. Hello and welcome to this week's
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episode of The King Consultant. I am here in person with now
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what I'd consider good friend Aubrey Austin.
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What are your accolades again? I know you're doing a crunchy
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degree at NYU, but in relational psychology and philosophy.
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Hey, you got it. Nice.
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Very good. Tell me, Aubrey, what are we
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talking about? Let's.
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Talk about it. So I study relational psychology
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and philosophy, and part of that is establishing how we build
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trust and safety in relationships, both
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psychologically and somatically. So a lot of my research has to
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do with EDSM is building that practice and looking at the
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relational laboratory that it creates.
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So how people are able to explore fantasy, desire, one
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team in general, and how we're framing that in language and
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physically with each other. What a coincidence.
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These are all of my favorite topics and I'm yeah, I'm so glad
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to be speaking now to an expert on it from a different side.
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I think I have the feelings down, the practice down, but the
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psychology of it is a little bit, I mean, I work with a lot
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of clients on it, but the official like what has been
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studied, I have, I've not done that so much so.
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Let's talk about it. Now you talk a lot about Freud.
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Can I say I love Freud? This is kind of controversial.
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This is the topic, right? What?
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So Freud, for his time, was actually quite progressive.
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OK, I believe he was progressive, but was he
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progressively wrong? Like Andrew Tate's progressive,
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but like a. Fantastic one, yes, and a lot of
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the things that Freud did would not fly now hitting on your
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clients, sleeping with your clients, Sure, go for it.
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All things that also still happen now though.
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True. I'm not sleeping with my
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clients. I'm just saying these things
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happen. Now they're more frowned upon,
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society at large. But we look at this, I look a
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lot at Freud and fantasy and I think the stuff that Freud, he
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was the initial thought leader in this process.
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And I think there's still value to that because he in fantasy
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and sexual fantasy, sexual fantasy, but.
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When I hear Freud, let's just get this out of the gate.
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Didn't you think all men were obsessed with their mothers and
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women were obsessed with Dicks? Yep.
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And in my experience of experiencing many men, I was
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never obsessed with a Dick. So there were some really good
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Dicks. Like, I'll be honest.
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But like, that's the point. Like, yeah, some stood out, but
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some were just boring. And then I don't meet a lot of
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men who are obsessed with their mothers.
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Although when you talk to a man about what he's looking for in a
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wife, it is very much if he liked his mother, it's what he
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was looking for. And then I had an ex who loved
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that I was Kirby and had ample breasts because his mother was
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very thin, rail thin and he just feuds her as not a caring woman.
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Interesting as well. Want to know something even more
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interesting? When I wanted a breast reduction
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we had to go to therapy together and this all came out in therapy
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because he didn't want me to get 1.
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And I was like OK I understand this is scary.
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I'm going in for surgery to modify how I look.
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Empathy. Yeah.
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Let's go talk to my therapist so we can have a more fair
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conversation. Right.
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And that's when I found out that the reason he liked women with
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bigger breasts is because his mother had none.
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And he viewed women with the bigger breasts is more caring.
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Fucking mind blowing, right? Fascinating.
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OK, so now I'm like, all right, Freud, maybe you have some.
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And I was going to say Freud would affirm your experience of
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saying, well, wait a second, I am not obsessed with all this.
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This doesn't come to fruition for me because it's unconscious.
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Oh, you wouldn't have awareness of it.
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But he would say that subtly. There's something you are not
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recognizing in the subconscious that is driving you to behave in
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the way that you. Do with men's Dicks.
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I'm want to explore this because I'm like I hide nothing from
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anyone, especially myself right. I would say I sit next to you
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and I just feel my guts about my family.
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I love it I'm here to receive. I mean I feel like I have daddy
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issues, but that has nothing to do with a cock.
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My daddy issues are abandonment of him not being there once I
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hit a certain age. How does that relate?
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That's the thing, not everyone has that experience, whereas
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everyone has a mother, whether or not they an experience with
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it. You know what?
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Actually, just fuck Freud. Because the man gets to be
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obsessed with his mother, the woman has to be obsessed with
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the Dick. Fuck you, Freud.
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All right, I feel better about this conversation already, OK.
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OK, personal questions. What would you want to feel in
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that relationship with your father?
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Presence, him being there and accepting me no matter what,
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whether I'm successful or not. It came down to success and
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accomplishment, and I would want to be accepted whether I had
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those accolades or not. How do you want to be received
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by a Dom? Honestly, it's really funny.
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If you had just said a man, I probably could have answered it.
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But a Dom feels so vulnerable. I want to be received
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ironically. I want a Dom to see in me that I
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could be better and do better and pull and push it out of me.
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Do you know what I mean? Get more from me.
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So the opposite of what I want just full acceptance from my
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dad. I want a Dom to probably play
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the role like definitely more of like be better.
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I know you can be better. To get you to that state where
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you are then worthy of acceptance.
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Yeah, I know these. It's how we all.
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No, I know these things. I don't like to sing them out.
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No one does. That's not the fun part, yeah.
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The fun part is the fantasy. Right.
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And so that's where we have that intellectual playground.
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And actually I want to take the word intellectual out of it.
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It can be a playground for Eroticism and that is a place
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for us to leave the mind behind in a lot of times and move into
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body and soul. This is why kink is so much
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easier for me of I have no problem stepping into that,
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leaving it behind and exploring it and understanding it.
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It is that previous point of what am I actually trying to
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achieve by finding a Dom? And it's harder to do that self
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exploration because it's hard. Yeah, it hurts to say it out
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loud. And I can ask the questions.
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I can even ask myself the questions, but to be faced with
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really showing up, honestly, that's hard work.
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Yeah. How?
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Who does it for you? As in a person or.
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Yeah, no feeling in The Who draws it out of you?
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How do you face yourself and get these answers?
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I would I terrible. We lean into the chase, OK.
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I find myself attracted to dynamics in which I find that
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challenge because I feel like it gives me something to meet.
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Where do you think that comes from?
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Oh, definitely childhood. But this is.
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Yeah. But it's kind of a similar
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situation to you because I had very affirming parents.
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Oh, who said we don't care what grades you get, we just know
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you're trying your best. And I from a young age was an
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incredibly high achiever, constantly striving to be best
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of the best, top of the class, straight A's, all the things.
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And so then when I in my relationships and what I'm
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attracted to, I want someone who's constantly trying to raise
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the bar higher and higher and higher because that's something
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that I felt like I needed to push myself to do.
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And so now what's erotic for me is outsource that to someone
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else and make me chase after that.
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Oh damn, that sounds like a lot of work.
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That sounds so much. That sounds like so much more
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work. Than I'm working overtime.
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Yeah, for real. OK.
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And so something I'm trying to navigate now is realizing in my
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romantic or emotional relationships, maybe this isn't
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the most beneficial dynamic for me, but what does that look like
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for me to play out in fantasy or in power exchange?
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And that's something that could be fun to tap into.
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I like to tap into the dark places and bring them out and
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play with them. It is my favorite thing to do.
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Yeah, because I feel like I can own it.
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And I've had multiple experiences.
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I've been right about some of them where I have jealousy or
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self doubt or I feel how often am I talking about my weight and
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my appearance and I feel like, and I can pull those out and
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play with them in this context. It becomes more palatable
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outside of the context. Yeah, like in my real life, it's
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healing. Can I ask how jealousy shows up
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for you and what that does to you?
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If it's a turn on, turn off like how you respond to.
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It oh, I get jealous and it just it lights up that part of me
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that wants to chase and get attention and win.
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I think that the jealousy pieces, I want all of the
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attention if the attention is anywhere else but me, I I take
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it as a personal slight on me like as it like kind of like I'm
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not enough, but also I just have to try harder like it all.
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See why we're friends? No for real though, the person
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that I'm going after doesn't even need to be a high achiever
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or anything like that, I just need to want their attention for
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one reason or another. What the real mind fuck?
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The worst thing that could possibly happen to me is
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somebody wanting me back because then I'm done.
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I'm out. No, I say that facetiously that
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that was like me 10 years ago. Me now is like, no, meet me
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where I'm at. Please come find me.
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Let's have fun together and be 1.
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And that's why I think I've had in the past year since my
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breakup, I've had some of the best sexual experiences of my
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life because I'm looking for someone who's showing up and
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then we can have fun together. 10 years ago, especially before
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I met my ex, that was my pattern.
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God forbid someone liked me back.
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Terrifying. It was done.
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She's healed now. Yeah, I wish.
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I wish I could say that I'm healing every day, but I will
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say that what I accept in relationships is very different
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now. Yeah.
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Like, I'm willing to call out what I see.
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We famously, unfortunately, I feel bad for my podcast
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listeners even having to hear this word.
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We famously broke through the barrier of the German.
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We worked past where our needs were not being met.
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And like, I moved on from it slowly, you know?
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But like, I moved on once I realized, OK, I'm never gonna be
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met here. There's no point in chasing.
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Something I would love to talk about here and something you
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know I'm exploring and it sounds like you've undergone in your
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relational journey, is the power of honesty both in relationships
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and in sexuality. So let's start with the the fun
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and kinky. How important is it to be honest
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about desire? That's like #1 with kink, I
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think honesty about desire is important no matter what,
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because there's a core part of your being that needs to be
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seen, and we do that through desire.
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That's my belief. In a lot of ways, If you're not
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being honest, there is some shame there, and shame is really
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dangerous for relationships. So you have to think in life,
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why have you not been honest in general?
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Like what are the reasons? It's because you're scared.
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You feel ashamed of maybe something you've done.
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There's guilt. So I think the antidote to shame
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is bringing it out in the open and being totally honest about
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it. Non negotiable, 100% honesty.
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You need to be, or else you run the risk of never being met,
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never being seen. And a lot of the work that I do
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is with self, selfhood and integrating the unconscious and
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what we haven't processed yet to our personhood.
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And what I study in relational psychology is the self quote, UN
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quote. This is very theoretical and
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philosophical, just giving you a warning.
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But that self doesn't exist outside of the relational
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context. There is the I, which is
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biological, who we are as an individual being.
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And then there's the me, and that's the integrated self who
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you are seeing, how the parts of me that you affirm, the parts of
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you that you reject. And all of your responses and
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how we relate in our relational environment integrate into how I
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see myself. And so that's the construction
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of the quote UN quote self. And I think that's so
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interesting we apply to the context of desire and the sexual
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self on if you are with a partner who continually where
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there is shame in that relationship or denies a fantasy
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or a desire and what that can do for selfhood.
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Yeah. And so I'm curious on you on how
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you see that with the people that you work with or working
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through that, how do we begin that process of integration?
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That is where I have to go 10 steps back from where you even
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just started of talking to the individuals themselves and
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understanding. Well, usually I work with one
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person who's kinky and the other person who is not.
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But the difference is they're at least curious or open or they
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want to learn more. Yeah.
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So for the kinky person, I get to their core desire because
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what I really need to talk to the non kinky person is to
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understand what is your core desire?
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Please don't tell me you want a chastity K John.
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I mean, yes, please tell me you want a chastity K John.
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But I need to understand what that gives you.
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What are you feeling when you have a chastity kage on?
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Is it freedom? Is it safety?
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So that when I work with you and your partner, I can explain,
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point to your partner, what you want isn't just the chastity
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device. You want the feeling of freedom,
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punishment, safety, attention. And then we can start focusing
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on the feeling. This is just so core part of the
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work. I'm getting to the answer, OK.
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We focus on the feeling that they're trying to achieve
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because it's relatable. All of that is about relation to
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each other, whether it's shame or not.
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So I need to make this the kinky partner partner relatable with
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something that's not always quote, UN quote, relatable.
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Yeah. OK.
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So then I talk to the other partner and I start to
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understand their own desires, their confusion, their
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hesitation, where they're shaming might be coming from if
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they have shamed the kinky partner.
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And I start to breakdown. I breakdown everyone's thought
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process so that it's like, OK, let's get to the core of what
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this is. And for the person who might
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accidentally be shaming their partner, just not interested,
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what's their core belief? Why are they not willing to
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explore this? And then I throw all of that
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information away for just a half a session.
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I say, OK, now talk to me about your own.
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And I want to get deep on them telling me about their fantasies
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as opposed to just telling me like the psychological breakdown
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of it. I want people to get excited so
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that we can start to build up right from there.
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OK, So what we've done then is we've kind of like deconstructed
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where the core of their shame is their shaming, their desire.
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And then we build up from there by making each other relatable.
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And that is how you're beginning to repair self because you're
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teaching the others like, OK, husband, who wants chastity.
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Here's where you're at. And here's what your wife is
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seeing. But like, let's reintegrate who
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you are and what you're actually asking for.
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Yeah, wife, I understand this is all new and surprising to you.
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I understand why that might be something that you're
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embarrassed about too, and maybe projecting that on to the
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person. But let's get down to why you
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feel that way about things. And now that we understand that,
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maybe there's something you're excited about exploring and it's
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almost, it's helpful to do it for someone else.
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It's like helpful to think about someone else's psychology and
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why you're. It's easier to point to someone
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else and say I'm judging that because I feel XY and Z way.
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Then these are my desires and I'm judging it because I feel XY
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and Z way. Does that make sense?
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Yeah, I know. I'm with you.
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OK, OK, I struggle sometimes to like really break it down, but
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this is something that happens over four or five sessions with
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people. But it's all with the goal of
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like, how do I help these two people relate to each other?
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And then it allows for a lot more self acceptance and then
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acceptance of the dynamic that they want in their relationship.
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code TKC 25 for $750 off. And what about people who are
14:57
struggling to be honest with themselves of denying desire,
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fantasy, the forbidden? That is 1 where I put in extra
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work. So what you're describing is
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normally in my experience, I will have a kinky client come to
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me and they'll say I really want to have this with my partner.
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And then when I start to work with the partner, remember the
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part where I said I throw it all away and ask what their desires
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are. I sometimes have to do two or
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three sessions specifically focused on what are your desires
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and helping populate the menu for them to even light up at one
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of these options. So my approach to that was
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they're struggling themselves is I give them options and I'm
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like, what sounds interesting? My favorite thing to do is if
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someone's really turned off by something, I was like, what
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sounds most disgusting? What's the most disturbing so
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that I start getting someone to open up about their feelings one
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way or another. If you think diaper play is
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absolutely disgusting and many people do, I'm not one of those
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people. Tell me why.
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What makes you uncomfortable about it?
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Let's fucking go. So good.
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And then I let them just like really air out all their disgust
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and then we pare it down. So what's slightly less
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disgusting, right? Work our way back.
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So like what I like, I'm a huge fan of working backwards.
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So like when someone is struggling with it, I'm like,
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all right, let's go far into the spectrum.
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How does that make you feel? Uncomfortable, gross, not safe
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in my own body. And it's like, why?
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And then like we work back to what would make you feel safe.
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So sometimes I like to go let the pendulum swing the other
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direction. I love what you said about what
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does that feel like in my body because so many people never
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have the opportunity, first of all, to pause and reflect on
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that question, but also stop and think, wait, what does a yes
16:32
feel like in my body? What does a no feel like in my
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body? Where do I hold tension
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surrounding this thought? Where do I open up surrounding
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this thought And the stomatic component of it is something
16:44
that hasn't been lost. If you look to indigenous ways
16:48
of thoughts or throughout history so ingrained into how we
16:52
functioned as societies, as communities.
16:54
Amanda and I spent a lot of time today talking about what it's
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like living in America and New York and the the lack of
17:00
community that we have in a lot of places.
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I'm based in Brooklyn now and experiencing that myself.
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How we've become so divorced so matically from ourselves, but
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also community at large that we've lost that connection of
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what do these things actually feel like and what does good
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embodiment feel like to me? With good reason, like you have
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to sort of shut off. Do you think you'd feel very
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embodied if you were walking into New York City every day
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with that, like, level of vulnerability?
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We're actually being asked to do gymnastics of like, OK, out in
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the world, hold yourself together, be safe.
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Survive. Survive literally now come into
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intimacy and let everything like be as honest as you possibly
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can. Let that vulnerability out.
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And that is in a direct opposition of what you've had to
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do for 14 hours outside. Exactly.
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It's so tough. And it's interesting you
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mentioned Indigenous and older other cultures where it's less
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ingrained that you have to shut that part down, right to Stacy.
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But it is true, as much as I love to be in my body at all
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times, when I'm on the subway, I'm not on.
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I am not in my body. I am on defense motive.
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I try and create like an invisible shield around me to
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protect my energy. Yeah, on the subway because
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that's something that I believe works and helps me at least
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mentally. It's hard then to come back into
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a relationship and feel as close as we can while having
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experienced that outside. So everyone knows I spend a lot
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of time in New York when I can, but I'm a softer person in Vegas
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and I feel the change when I come to New York.
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Wow, I know I'm friendlier. I want to have conversations
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with you. I want that in New York, but
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it's not the vibe. And it also it doesn't feel safe
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to do it, not physically safe. I'm not talking about the
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dangers or crime or anything. I just mean that like, people
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are busy. The rejection is going to be
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there. The I don't have time for this
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conversation. So I mean, that's fine, but it's
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the difference. Fine.
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You experienced that softness or that transition immediately when
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you showed up in Vegas? Or did it take time?
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Oh, great question. No, I was met with it.
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I would go to a Starbucks and the person serving and we didn't
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have 40 orders after me, so they could literally talk to me.
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And that's disarming. You're like, oh, oh, this is a
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space where we can have a conversation.
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Now, I know my baristas by name. They know me like, it's good
19:15
morning, Molly, you know, how's it going?
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I know her name. Like, the way that New York
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doesn't allow for that. So it was a quick transition,
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not immediate, but it started with me having this knowledge
19:26
that these people want to talk to me.
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They want their day to go a little bit faster, and they
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don't have enough customers to make their day go faster.
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They need to have interaction, right?
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And then I met them where they were at, and it became a very
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pleasant exchange. That's just one example.
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Right. But I'm sure it integrates into
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so many aspects of your life there.
19:43
Oh yeah, just the friendships, the closeness, the ease of, hey,
19:48
do you want to meet up tonight? It's it's a different world.
19:50
So much is situational and also relational.
19:54
Yeah. Situational is key though yeah I
19:58
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20:43
That was a great point. What else does I love?
20:46
I love that she came with a list and I was like check what's up?
20:50
Checking it twice. What else is on your?
20:52
List we talk about, I wanted to talk about performativity and
20:55
sexuality because that's a question that I have coming up a
20:58
lot in my research because from the perspective of selfhood,
21:01
what's erasing the self versus what is giving you the
21:04
opportunity to expand it. So the specific case that I was
21:08
thinking about, say someone says they are capital S submissive
21:13
typically do not floor outside of that role.
21:15
They meet someone, fall in love, Oh no their partner's also a
21:19
sub. They need to snap into more of
21:22
the role of the switch or suddenly have to Dom more and
21:25
that feels outside. Of who they are, right yeah.
21:28
I also work with couples who have this and I actually one of
21:32
the tactics I guess I used and I learned this from a polyamory
21:36
coach was week on week off. You get a week where you're the
21:40
sub and a week where they're the sub.
21:42
So no one's needs are being met 20, 47, but you're meeting each
21:45
other. OK, but to answer your first
21:47
question, authenticity, right? You cannot pretend to be
21:51
dominant if you are submissive. But what you can do, and I'm a
21:54
firm believer in this, is everyone has a little switch in
21:56
them, even just maybe a 1%, but the switching might not actually
22:00
be psychological. It might be physical that they
22:02
can switch. You need to tap into the energy.
22:05
I believe you can connect with your dominant energy.
22:06
You can connect with your submissive energy.
22:08
It's a practice. It's like reprogramming neural
22:10
pathways. When you have a self belief, you
22:12
have to come up with new ones and kind of dig that road for
22:16
yourself. So you your brain goes a
22:17
different positive way. I talk about that as tapping
22:20
into your dominant energy and I work people through.
22:23
Let's talk about when you feel most dominant, when do you feel
22:26
most yourself and in charge? And I try and look for that
22:29
thread to pull on where I'm like, OK, this is a dominant
22:32
path we can go down, let's go. But I haven't talked to the
22:35
entire world. But in my experience, I can find
22:38
it with every single person that I've spoken with so far.
22:40
However, I like building the fact that I have kinky.
22:44
I have an Instagram profile that's specific about kink.
22:47
If you find me that way in the 1st place, if you I'm called the
22:49
King consultant. Yes, I'm Amanda Dames Calm.
22:51
But most people who find me are already a little bit kinky.
22:54
So I'm self selecting a self selecting.
22:57
Yeah. However, I have never spoken to
22:59
someone who's like, no, I really can't do it.
23:01
I've heard of these people, but I also just believe they don't
23:04
feel safe and exploring another side.
23:05
When I've run into that. If I can't find that thread, I
23:08
look at where there's why is submissions such a part of their
23:11
identity. I try and discover why they feel
23:13
safe in submission, to understand where can we find
23:17
them feeling safety and dominance.
23:19
However, at no point do I ever force anyone to do something
23:22
they don't want to do. The idea is, do you want to show
23:25
up for your partner in this way? Do you have the capacity to show
23:28
up? We start there.
23:30
I'm not in the business of forcing people to be kinky.
23:32
I do think most people are kinky, though.
23:34
And then you just have to figure out, yeah, like.
23:36
Everybody's got something. Everyone, it's like where's that
23:38
desire coming from? To your point though,
23:40
authenticity and I believe it's doable.
23:42
It's just about leaning in and and finding a cheat cheat way to
23:45
get into that energy for yourself.
23:47
Do you feel you're dominant or submissive?
23:49
Revealing. I mean, normally you switch.
23:52
Switch and you're switchy. In your whole.
23:54
Life. Yes, right.
23:55
So that shows up for me is in. I don't have a gender
23:59
preference. You really?
24:00
Don't. I really don't, no.
24:02
And if you look at the people I have dated and partnerships with
24:07
range in every single possible way.
24:11
I I can attest to this. You've told me about your
24:13
partners. It really.
24:14
Was arranged and how I meet that person is so dependent on our
24:19
dynamic, and then how I show up in my sexual self is entirely
24:23
dependent on what that connection looks like.
24:25
Question for you though, OK, I understand that look and gender
24:29
of a person like that doesn't matter, but what I am going to
24:31
ask is are you stepping into it and how much of this is possibly
24:35
people policing of what you think they need and then
24:37
stepping into that? Role such a great question and
24:39
that's why I asked you about the what do you do with the
24:42
performativity aspect of it because I was actually just
24:45
talking about a friend with this.
24:46
We are both chronic people pleasers and how much of this is
24:50
actually people pleasing? And that was something that I
24:53
had to really step back and consider for myself of wait a
24:56
second, do I actually want this? And I feel like when I'm able to
25:00
truly feel grounded in that answer is when I have been with
25:04
a partner for a while and you get to that point where you have
25:07
to unlearn the sexual scripts of this is what I like.
25:10
This is what we do because things get to that point of, oh,
25:14
this is the script that we've been playing out for a certain
25:16
amount of time, But wait a second.
25:18
I feel a resistance to this in some type of way.
25:21
And to keep that spark alive, you first have to go within
25:24
yourself and say, wait a second, what do I actually want to
25:27
nurture here? Is this script of what we've
25:29
been doing actually serving me, first of all, But us, do you
25:33
like this or? Yeah.
25:34
Are you still having fun here? Yeah.
25:36
And then talking about that. And we're taught not to serve
25:39
ourselves first. Yes, it's just like I and I
25:41
don't know if that's a purely woman experience or we're to be
25:44
kind and to care about everyone else religiously.
25:46
We're taught to think about other people before we think
25:49
about ourselves. Yeah, sorry.
25:50
Like I feel like we're bringing everyone in and halfway through
25:52
the conversation, we spent a large part of today talking
25:54
about religion. We did and just the effects it's
25:56
had on us. It's easy to think that we're
25:59
doing good, right, by serving everyone else and that we're
26:01
being selfish by serving ourselves.
26:03
I rarely ask, is this serving me?
26:05
I'm fortunate enough that after many years, I like, I just know
26:08
what is serving me. But like, it's OK, It takes time
26:10
because I remember feeling a lot of shame about feeling selfish.
26:14
That's Yep, it's like, oh, M is what I'm doing selfish?
26:18
Even as a submissive, I feel guilt for the focus having to be
26:22
on me. In fact, one of the reasons I
26:24
don't think I brat and I try and be a good girl is like, oh,
26:26
bratting would inconvenience somebody.
26:28
I can't do that. Yeah be rude.
26:31
I can brat from time to time but I'm not a brat cuz I'm like the
26:34
significant inconvenience I would be cannot play that role.
26:37
So interesting isn't it? Like that's how I know I'm a
26:40
good girl cuz I'm like no I feel bad being so good.
26:43
No but. Little praise, cake.
26:45
No, but that's the other thing. I don't even fully have a praise
26:47
cake. Like when I get good girl, I'm
26:49
like, was I good enough? Ohh you just want to be a high
26:51
achiever. Yeah, like degrade me.
26:53
Yeah, you, but you. Ohhh yeah, I.
26:56
Love that That's nuance, Amanda. I know, yeah.
26:59
I'm a difficulty. Like, see, I I can't afford to
27:02
be bratty. I am already difficult enough.
27:04
No, that's fair. But I'm not.
27:06
But like, I am, you know, that's how I see it.
27:08
It's like, oh, I already need so much.
27:10
What is the most authentic version of mine?
27:12
And so that wouldn't be pleasurable to you necessarily
27:14
to be bratty because then you're just so concerned about the
27:17
inconvenience that you're providing to the other.
27:18
Yes, and it's a fear of will they leave me?
27:20
That'd be too annoying. Root fear got Hats off to the
27:24
brats out there. Out there, maybe living my
27:26
dream. It's funny because I actually as
27:29
when I top, I enjoy playing with brats because it gives me this
27:31
opportunity. I know they're not going
27:33
anywhere. They're bratting for a reason.
27:35
I get to brat back, yeah, and that's a lot of fun.
27:37
That's such a fun springboard. Yeah, It's like, oh, this is
27:39
where I get the banter in. Yeah, because I don't want to
27:42
get the banter in when like I'm bent over and being hit with an
27:45
implement. Like I'm not looking for more
27:47
banter, I'm looking for it to stop.
27:48
When you're topping, is that purely within the context of
27:51
play? Yes see, but it could be a
27:53
difference. Here's the when I Dom sometimes,
27:56
like I had a sub lately last year, early this year, one of
27:59
the things I so enjoyed was helping him better his life.
28:02
I cannot tell you how many Subs have LinkedIn profiles because I
28:06
was like, you are, you can achieve more, but that's like
28:09
that's my ingrained thing of success.
28:11
Looks a certain type of way. Things look a certain type of
28:13
way. And maybe that's not what they
28:15
want. I mean, oftentimes they do want
28:16
something that I'm like, you know what would help you this?
28:18
But at the end of the day, that is the psychology of kink.
28:22
Don't get me wrong, it can also be hey, I want to try handcuffs.
28:25
This is fun, yes, but the deep paper layers to this are
28:29
integrating the part, the unconscious parts of us that we
28:33
have yet to admit to ourselves. Yes, 100%.
28:36
And that that is with the goal of burying ourselves, showing up
28:40
as a fuller version of ourselves in this world.
28:42
And trust me, we don't have to make it that deep if you don't
28:45
want to, no. You don't, but that's so true.
28:48
There's so much fun and play and amazing, wonderful aspects that
28:53
you don't have to use this as therapy.
28:55
And that's something actually controversial that I'm studying
28:57
now is there is so much power to this.
28:59
Should we start looking at this as a therapeutic modality, which
29:03
is such a controversial conversation that we need a
29:05
whole other episode in and we're not going to fully die?
29:09
It is controversial because for me I focus so much on the desire
29:12
of it and just the enjoyment of it and how a couple can
29:15
integrate it. But yes, maybe I just.
29:17
There's deep healing work that can be done there.
29:19
And I have definitely done it. I've grown with people in it.
29:22
Yeah. It's just how honestly it's how
29:25
do you bottle that? Right.
29:26
Because we have cognitive behavioral therapy.
29:28
I have to say that out loud because if I say CBD CBT on my
29:31
podcast, it's also cock and bald for sure.
29:34
It's so easily, yes, so easily confused.
29:36
I get it. So there is, there are different
29:39
modalities of therapy. There's just not enough
29:41
structure around BDSM and kink. And that's I think where I get
29:45
hung up on it. Always say kink is like
29:48
religion. In my experience, kink and BDSM
29:50
is like religion. There are a lot of educators out
29:52
there and there are a lot of us out there talking about it and
29:54
people follow certain people and it's almost like a dogma or a
29:58
religion. I recently saw someone say Dom's
30:00
can't be brats. These titles have meanings and a
30:02
Princess is this and and it's not a creator.
30:04
I have any like feeling one where in fact I follow him
30:06
because I'm like, what are you going to say today?
30:08
Like I want to hear your strong viewpoint.
30:09
Bring it on. I might not agree with it.
30:11
I'm not going to fight it because I'm like, that's his
30:13
viewpoint. I have my own viewpoints of
30:15
titles, roles, all of this stuff.
30:17
And it's almost just like Christianity.
30:19
There's multiple different there's Catholics, there's
30:21
whatever you might be. There's Episcopalian, there's.
30:23
Raised Protestant, I don't know what the hell I am now.
30:25
Lutheran Like there's all of these things and they're all
30:27
slightly, they're mostly the same, same generalization, but
30:31
the individual things have some very specific beliefs that are
30:34
different. I actually view kink and BDSM as
30:36
the same. It's like we're not all, we're
30:38
all just marching to the beat of our own drum.
30:40
It's sort of similar. Like there's God, there's Jesus,
30:42
right? There's Mary, there's like the
30:44
fundamentals, but the details are different.
30:46
And that's how everyone practices kink.
30:48
And then I'm like, how do you decide how to do this as a
30:50
therapy? Where's the measurement?
30:52
Love that perspective, which I very much align with too.
30:55
And something I'll, I'll say just speaking from my research
30:58
is I speak to therapists about this sex positive, kink
31:01
positive, all the affirming boxes therapists and I speak to
31:05
pros who are in BDSM. There are the ones who the pro
31:10
doms say they have a lot of people in their BDSM kink spaces
31:15
saying, hang on, don't make this quote UN quote normal.
31:18
We want to keep this taboo and outside of the therapeutic
31:22
realm. That takes away from what this
31:25
is. And they don't like that
31:27
umbrella term. This sounds like gatekeeping to
31:29
me. That's.
31:30
It or and then therapists say, no, I understand there's great
31:34
marriage of this, this can be a healing act, but therapy is
31:38
already so red taped. I mean, even just if we just
31:41
look into licensure and where you can and can't practice in
31:45
certain states that there are very specific rules of what
31:48
therapy is. There's no realistic way to
31:52
integrate BDSM as quote, UN quote, you know, an actual
31:56
therapeutic practice right now. But looking at it from the
31:59
perspective of no, this can be an outlet to explore yourself
32:03
physically and emotionally in ways that cognitive behavioral
32:07
therapy might not necessarily can't.
32:09
CBT, another way to explore yourself.
32:12
No. OK, you're really on to
32:14
something here because that's why I coach.
32:16
I mean, like I didn't go get a degree to be a therapist, but
32:18
coaching does allow for some of that integration in what you're
32:21
describing healing, especially as a Somatica certified coach,
32:25
there is so much about the embodiment and what's happening
32:27
in the feeling that we've talked about earlier.
32:29
But with the king side, the difference is it's not therapy,
32:32
it's not bottled, it's not regimented.
32:34
Do you know what I mean? It's really left up to
32:36
interpretation of what feels right for you.
32:39
How are you processing it and do you feel safe in it a bigger?
32:42
Container. Yeah, it's a bigger container.
32:44
And I think that that's probably where my hang up about therapy
32:47
comes in because coaching allows for so much connection, right?
32:51
And that's what therapy doesn't have that level.
32:53
We talked about this earlier, just the attunement.
32:55
Yeah, me trying to attune to you in a connected way, body,
33:01
breath, mind. Yes, that therapy for all the
33:04
right reasons doesn't cross that boundary.
33:07
Probably for the safety of everyone involved.
33:09
Because I was having earlier, if you don't mind me sharing, I was
33:12
having an anxious moment and I'm like setting up the podcast
33:15
equipment. I'm thinking, why?
33:16
How do I feel like this? And then I'm like, oh, I feel
33:20
you. And then I, we talked it out to
33:22
be like, OK, this is the feeling.
33:24
What does that actually mean for you?
33:25
Because I have my own understanding of those feelings
33:28
and what causes them. But the feeling was there.
33:30
It was just the understanding of.
33:31
That was coming from a cool moment to me because instead of
33:34
just staying in my anxiety, wait a second, we can talk about
33:38
this. Because I'm feeling I'm like,
33:39
whoa, what's happening? It was.
33:41
Interesting. And that's the relational feel.
33:44
That's the space that you're Co creating.
33:45
Yeah. Social baseline theory says we
33:48
Co regulate each other. And so even if I'm not
33:50
expressing it, whoa, you're picking up on something, you can
33:53
still feel exactly what I'm what's running through me.
33:56
Yes. Not exactly what I'm feeling,
33:58
but how you are experiencing that, Yeah.
34:01
And it's only through the somatical work I did and working
34:05
with different coaches, and I've spent a lot of time working with
34:07
people who practice different modalities so I can learn for my
34:10
clients that I've been able to even separate and recognize,
34:13
Wait, this isn't my feeling. I scan my own body and I'm like,
34:16
this isn't coming from me, It must be coming from somewhere
34:20
else. You just happen to be the
34:21
closest person. But also, we had talked so
34:23
openly about some deep things. Yeah.
34:25
And I think that that's another thing.
34:27
It's taking space. We were so in conversation.
34:29
I was a tuning and listening. But when we sort of step back
34:32
from the actual conversation is when I was able to scan my body.
34:35
Yeah. Because I wasn't up here.
34:36
I was in my body focusing on something else.
34:38
And that's the way, like, I picked up an energy and walked
34:41
away with it for a little bit. And then we came back and
34:44
processed. Yeah, they're so it's so deep.
34:46
And that's I think why I'm like, OK, therapy doesn't allow for
34:49
that, OK. We create these past three hours
34:52
that we have not shut up during just talking to each other,
34:54
created our own little relational laboratory here in so
34:57
many ways. Yeah, we have explored so much.
35:01
I feel like you have met me in such beautiful ways that I love
35:06
my therapist to death. But this is also an experience
35:09
that I feel like allows me to integrate a lot of different
35:12
parts of myself. I haven't had the opportunity
35:15
to, so thank you. That's really affirming.
35:17
I I work with a lot of different people, so it's fun and nice to
35:20
work with a friend. Really.
35:21
Like it's like. It's a new container.
35:24
It's a new container because normally I do this with couples
35:26
as well, but that was I really enjoyed it.
35:28
Now we are at time that I'm surprised that we've gone over
35:32
for what both of us were like. We have a hard stop.
35:34
That hard stop happened 10 minutes ago, by the way, that
35:36
hard stop. OK.
35:37
You can follow Aubrey Aust on Instagram as Aubrey Aust, right?
35:41
Aubrey double under Score Aust my website aubreyoz.com join my
35:45
newsletter and also I have a podcast coming out.
35:47
Hint of Trauma should be up and running by the time this episode
35:50
is live. Follow along for more
35:51
discussions on identity, desire, and construction of selfhood.
35:54
And my hope is that you will be on here again.
35:57
You cannot get rid of me. Don't.
35:58
Worry I'm here. All right.
35:59
Thanks so much. Thank you, Amanda.
36:03
If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave
36:05
a review, and share it with anyone who might find it
36:08
interesting. And if you have any questions or
36:10
topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes, feel free to
36:12
reach out e-mail info@thekingconsultant.com.
36:16
Until next time, keep on Kinkin on.