Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / Your Cycle Is a Superpower: Lydia O’Donnell on Running Through Grief, Understanding Female Physiology & Consistency Over Metrics

Transcript

Your Cycle Is a Superpower: Lydia O’Donnell on Running Through Grief, Understanding Female Physiology & Consistency Over Metrics · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

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Speaker 1: I do think life is a game and some people
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Speaker 1: play the game better than others. I just want to
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Speaker 1: enjoy the game. I want to have fun with it
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Speaker 1: and see what's possible and reach my potential in the game.
0:24
Speaker 2: What's going on, hurdlers? Emily Abadi here. You are listening
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Speaker 2: to another episode of Hurdle, a podcast featuring the mindset
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Speaker 2: secrets and true stories of the most inspiring women in
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Speaker 2: sports and wellness, empowering you to live a healthier, happier,
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Speaker 2: more motivated life, and of course, conquer your own hurdles.
0:43
Speaker 2: I know I've had some new listeners join the mix recently,
0:47
Speaker 2: so I want to give you the lowdown. I've been
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Speaker 2: doing this for, gosh, almost two almost nine years.
0:53
Speaker 3: I've lost all track of time, eight years now.
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Speaker 2: And the show has been through many evolutions. The current
1:00
Speaker 2: evolution that we are in is that hurdle is all
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Speaker 2: in on all things running. I'm bringing you stories of
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Speaker 2: elite athletes, coaches, and women within the running space, sharing
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Speaker 2: their tips, their tricks, their insights on how to get
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Speaker 2: through life's toughest moments and live life both on and
1:20
Speaker 2: off the run. This week, I am so, so stoked
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Speaker 2: to bring you my conversation with a woman who is
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Speaker 2: truly changing the game within the women's running space. And
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Speaker 2: that is Lydia O'Donnell. Lydia is the Nike Pacific head
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Speaker 2: run coach. She's also the co-founder of Femi, a groundbreaking
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Speaker 2: running and training app designed specifically around female physiology, hormones,
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Speaker 2: and menstrual cycle tracking. When I was traveling to Australia recently,
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Speaker 2: I had the absolute privilege of heading up to where
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Speaker 2: she lives in this area called the Sunshine Coast. And
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Speaker 2: we got to run together there through the most breathtaking,
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Speaker 2: beautiful trails I have ever seen.
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Speaker 3: Been on.
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Speaker 2: Now, beyond being an extraordinary athlete and competitive trail runner,
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Speaker 2: what impressed me most about Lids is the way that
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Speaker 2: she is building community down under. She's creating a space
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Speaker 2: that empowers women to understand their bodies, rethink their relationship
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Speaker 2: with movement, and fall in love with running, not just
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Speaker 2: for the short term, but for the long haul. In
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Speaker 2: this week's episode, Lydia and I dive into her personal
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Speaker 2: journey from her competitive track roots in confronting disordered eating
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Speaker 2: and burnout to how discovering a cycle-based training transformed her
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Speaker 2: health and running forever. We also get real about the
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Speaker 2: grit it takes to build a startup in the male-dominated
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Speaker 2: fitness tech space, navigating profound grief while keeping your passions alive,
2:46
Speaker 2: and why redefining your definition of success on and off
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Speaker 2: the trails is the greatest hurdle you can conquer. Make
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Speaker 2: sure you're following along with Hurdle over on social. It's
2:56
Speaker 2: over at Hurdle Podcast. You can also check out iHeart
2:59
Speaker 2: Woman Sports over at iHeart Woman Sports and me over
3:03
Speaker 2: at Emily Abadi. Listen to Hurdle with Emily Abadi over
3:05
Speaker 2: on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
3:09
Speaker 2: get your podcasts. And with that, let's get to it.
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Speaker 2: Let's get to hurdling. Today, I am sitting down with
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Speaker 2: Lydia O'Donnell. She is the Nike Pacific head run coach.
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Speaker 2: She's also the co-founder of Femi, a running and training
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Speaker 2: mobile app designed specifically around the female physiology, hormones, and
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Speaker 2: menstrual cycle tracking.
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Speaker 3: Lydia, what up?
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Speaker 1: What's up? It's an honor to be here. I'm very
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Speaker 1: excited to chat with you, Em.
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Speaker 3: I am so.
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Speaker 2: Excited to chat with you. I am way too far
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Speaker 2: away from you right now for... my liking for some context,
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Speaker 2: as I'm sure I'll say in the intro, I had
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Speaker 2: the distinct privilege of visiting Lydia while I was in
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Speaker 2: Australia in Noosa and it was stunning.
4:01
Speaker 1: It was so good to have you here. When I
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Speaker 1: invited you, I was like, I'm just going to put
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Speaker 1: it out there. We'd never met in person before, but
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Speaker 1: I was like, if you're coming to Australia, you have
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Speaker 1: to come to the Sunshine Coast. So I'm so glad
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Speaker 1: you made it all the way up here and we
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Speaker 1: got to go on a beautiful run together, which was
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Speaker 1: so fun.
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Speaker 3: The most beautiful run.
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Speaker 2: I know I said, what's up when we kick this off,
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Speaker 2: but I really do like to level set when I
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Speaker 2: sit down with my guests. So tell me, and you
4:27
Speaker 2: can think about it for a second, how are you
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Speaker 2: doing really? For context, just providing for the listener, it
4:33
Speaker 2: is 6.12 PM in New York City. So this is
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Speaker 2: kind of like hurdle after dark for me, but it
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Speaker 2: is 8.12 AM for you.
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Speaker 3: It is.
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Speaker 1: It's pretty early, but- I do love an early start,
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Speaker 1: as you would know, having stayed with me, but no,
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Speaker 1: I'm good. It's been a really busy few months, like
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Speaker 1: the last three or four months has just been full throttle,
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Speaker 1: but I wouldn't have it any other way. It's been
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Speaker 1: so fun, but I definitely am finding some time to
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Speaker 1: decompress at the moment, which is really nice.
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Speaker 3: What has kept you so busy, my girl?
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Speaker 1: Well, with Femi and After Dark, we really went quite
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Speaker 1: hard with the journey in the lead up to After
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Speaker 1: Dark this year. Something that we haven't really done before
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Speaker 1: was just providing a really in-depth journey for the community.
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Speaker 1: In the past, we've really just provided training programs and
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Speaker 1: a little bit of in-person assistance throughout the journey. But
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Speaker 1: over the last few months, I believe we hosted over
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Speaker 1: 100 different runs in the lead up to After Dark.
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Speaker 1: We had thousands of women come along to those runs
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Speaker 1: and it was incredible. And it's definitely, in my opinion,
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Speaker 1: as a running coach, the best service possible is to
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Speaker 1: be able to be there in person when you are
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Speaker 1: on a training program. So it's been incredible to get
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Speaker 1: those women together, to like run together, to get fitter
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Speaker 1: and faster together, to increase their belief in themselves together.
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Speaker 1: Like it's been so amazing, but I'm not going to lie.
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Speaker 1: It's been full on.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's been a lot and now you are very ready,
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Speaker 2: I'm sure, to decompress, which is ironic because I know
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Speaker 2: personally you have some really.
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Speaker 3: Exciting things coming up on the horizon.
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Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit about what you're working toward
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Speaker 2: and training for right now.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess from like a training perspective for my
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Speaker 1: own running, I am very focused on the trails at
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Speaker 1: the moment, which is so fun and all quite new
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Speaker 1: for me. I only started really competitively racing trails this year.
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Speaker 1: having come off like 20 years of running on the
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Speaker 1: track and on the road. So it's been so epic
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Speaker 1: to like kind of learn a new sport and learn
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Speaker 1: a new skill. And now I've got about three or
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Speaker 1: four races coming up over the next few months where
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Speaker 1: I can kind of use all the fitness and the
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Speaker 1: consistency I've gained over this year and just training and
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Speaker 1: actually go out and see what I'm capable of. I'm
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Speaker 1: racing distances from like the 21 K up to the
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Speaker 1: 50 K. So yeah, I've actually got a race this
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Speaker 1: weekend and I'm very excited to get out there and
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Speaker 1: just give it a good old crack.
7:07
Speaker 3: Give it a good old crack. 21K to 50K.
7:11
Speaker 2: What does someone think about when they're running for that long?
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Speaker 3: Unpack it for me.
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Speaker 1: Well, I ran a 50K in May this year and
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Speaker 1: that was at Ultra Trail Australia, the biggest, I would say,
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Speaker 1: trail race in Australia. And that was kind of my first...
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Speaker 1: proper serious 50k I did a 50k a few years
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Speaker 1: ago but I didn't train for it I kind of
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Speaker 1: just went in quite blind and that was grueling because
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Speaker 1: I just had no experience or conditioning to running on
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Speaker 1: like such hilly terrain as well but this year I
7:45
Speaker 1: did train pretty hard for it and I went into
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Speaker 1: it with the mindset of it's going to be really
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Speaker 1: hard like you kind of have to accept the hard
7:52
Speaker 1: and you just have to ride the roller coaster and
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Speaker 1: it was exactly that it was a But I think
8:01
Speaker 1: if you can start to like control your thoughts and
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Speaker 1: listen to your thoughts a lot more, it helps me
8:08
Speaker 1: so much as just like controlling the conversation you're having
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Speaker 1: with yourself. And I mean, that's not just advice for running.
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Speaker 1: I think that's really good advice for life as well
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Speaker 1: is accept that thoughts aren't always going to be positive
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Speaker 1: and just know that like negative conversations are going to
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Speaker 1: happen with yourself. But kind of just letting those conversations
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Speaker 1: come and go, I think is the best thing that
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Speaker 1: you can do. And so when you're on a trail
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Speaker 1: race and you're like 42 Ks in and you've still
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Speaker 1: got eight Ks to go and you're in the depths
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Speaker 1: of the pain cave and you've got to climb another
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Speaker 1: like 500 meters in elevation, you just have to find
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Speaker 1: that positive space and be like, you can get through this.
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Speaker 1: Just lean into that positivity, lean into your strength, your
8:49
Speaker 1: superpowers and know that time is going to pass anyway.
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Speaker 1: I think that's what I tell myself a lot is like,
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Speaker 1: whether I'm going hard or going slow or walking or crawling,
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Speaker 1: like the time is going to pass and pain is momentary.
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Speaker 1: So just get through it as best as you can.
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Speaker 1: And before you know it, you'll be at that finish line.
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Speaker 1: And that's kind of where the celebration happens.
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Speaker 3: I love that.
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Speaker 2: And a really big reason I was so excited to
9:14
Speaker 2: finally sit down with you for the show is because
9:17
Speaker 2: it's been a minute since I've had a coach on here.
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Speaker 2: And I think from time to time, we could all
9:23
Speaker 2: use a little boost of confidence, a little boost of
9:27
Speaker 2: remembering why it is that we started, why it is
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Speaker 2: that we keep going. So tell me a little bit
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Speaker 2: about your journey to this place, your journey to coaching.
9:36
Speaker 2: What inspired you to take what you've learned in your
9:41
Speaker 2: lengthy journey within the sport of run and then turn
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Speaker 2: it around to help others, specifically women?
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Speaker 1: So I started running when I was really young, like
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Speaker 1: seven years old. I was going to athletics weekly, going
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Speaker 1: and doing, you know, kind of running and jumping and
9:57
Speaker 1: throwing all of it. And then when I was at
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Speaker 1: high school, I I was under this incredible female coach.
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Speaker 1: Her name's Rosemary Wright. She actually represented Scotland in the
10:06
Speaker 1: Commonwealth games, won the Commonwealth games and held the 800
10:09
Speaker 1: meter record for many years. And she was also my
10:13
Speaker 1: PE teacher. So I was just like, right place, right time,
10:17
Speaker 1: found the most amazing mentor at quite a pivotal time
10:20
Speaker 1: in my life. I mean, if you're a woman, I'm
10:23
Speaker 1: sure we can all agree growing up as a teenage girl,
10:25
Speaker 1: we go through all these different emotions and our relationship
10:29
Speaker 1: with our bodies and ourselves kind of change a lot
10:32
Speaker 1: throughout that period. But because I had Rose as a coach,
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Speaker 1: she really just taught me the importance of sport and
10:38
Speaker 1: what it can do for you as a young woman
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Speaker 1: and how it can teach you how strong you are
10:42
Speaker 1: but also just the social side of it like the
10:45
Speaker 1: importance of making friends and going to training and having
10:49
Speaker 1: fun like it isn't all about winning golds or running
10:52
Speaker 1: certain times it really is just becoming a really well-rounded
10:55
Speaker 1: young woman and so I was very lucky to spend
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Speaker 1: probably about six or seven years under Rose and then
11:02
Speaker 1: when I left high school I actually stopped running for
11:05
Speaker 1: about 18 months and I found myself in quite a
11:08
Speaker 1: dark place mentally and really struggled with my relationship with myself.
11:12
Speaker 1: But thankfully, because I knew what it was like to
11:16
Speaker 1: feel good and actually respect your body and look after
11:19
Speaker 1: your body and set goals and train towards them, I
11:23
Speaker 1: found myself back on that path after 18 months because
11:26
Speaker 1: I was just chasing what I felt when I was
11:28
Speaker 1: at school. And so By the age of 19, I
11:31
Speaker 1: won my first national title. There's a few gaps I'm
11:34
Speaker 1: probably missing here, but I was very grateful to kind
11:38
Speaker 1: of come back into the sport and really just lean
11:41
Speaker 1: into the competitive side of it. And once I won
11:43
Speaker 1: my first national title, I was picked up by Nike
11:46
Speaker 1: as my main sponsor. And within about two or three
11:50
Speaker 1: years of being with Nike, I got presented a really
11:53
Speaker 1: incredible offer from by one of the leading women's or girls'
11:57
Speaker 1: high schools in Auckland, New Zealand, where I was living
11:59
Speaker 1: at the time, to come in and be their head
12:02
Speaker 1: track coach. And I was only 21 or 22 at
12:04
Speaker 1: the time. I felt probably quite inexperienced and I didn't
12:08
Speaker 1: know if I had the skills and tools to be
12:11
Speaker 1: able to look after young girls the way that Rose
12:13
Speaker 1: looked after me. But because I had such an amazing
12:18
Speaker 1: journey with Rose when I was at school and I
12:20
Speaker 1: felt so lucky to have such an amazing coach, I
12:23
Speaker 1: did feel the responsibility to take everything that Rose had
12:26
Speaker 1: taught me as a young girl and kind of pass
12:29
Speaker 1: those skills and tools onto other young girls who were
12:32
Speaker 1: going through the same thing that I was when I
12:34
Speaker 1: was at school. And so I took on the head
12:36
Speaker 1: coaching position at Diocesan School for Girls. And when I
12:41
Speaker 1: first joined Dio as the running coach, I think that
12:45
Speaker 1: we probably were getting like five or six girls a
12:48
Speaker 1: week to training. And it was a grind. These girls
12:51
Speaker 1: didn't want to be there. Like running was always seen
12:54
Speaker 1: as kind of the naff nerdy sport. It wasn't cool
12:58
Speaker 1: and running's hard. So like not many people want to
13:01
Speaker 1: push themselves into that kind of hard place off their
13:04
Speaker 1: own back. But by the time I left, which was
13:08
Speaker 1: five years later, we had about 30 or more girls
13:11
Speaker 1: turning up to training three times a week. And it
13:14
Speaker 1: was really incredible to work with those young girls. It
13:17
Speaker 1: taught me so much. And It was such an honor
13:20
Speaker 1: to see these girls, particularly the ones that did start
13:23
Speaker 1: out with me when I first joined, who at the
13:25
Speaker 1: time were like 10 or 11 years old, grow into
13:28
Speaker 1: these 16, 17-year-olds, young woman who really learned so many
13:34
Speaker 1: life skills through sport and through running. I felt so
13:37
Speaker 1: honored to be in that position. So That's really where
13:40
Speaker 1: my coaching started. And then Nike, I was very lucky
13:45
Speaker 1: to be in a position to then be picked up
13:47
Speaker 1: as the Nike running coach in New Zealand in 2015.
13:50
Speaker 1: I got sent to New York to get trained under
13:53
Speaker 1: Coach Bennett, which was epic. And definitely from that point,
13:56
Speaker 1: I was like, this is what I want to be doing.
13:58
Speaker 1: I was already attending and managing Nike Run Club in Auckland.
14:02
Speaker 1: So I was able to kind of have that and
14:04
Speaker 1: build that relationship with all of these diverse runners across
14:07
Speaker 1: the city. But being able to kind of step into
14:10
Speaker 1: that coaching position, I was then able to do a
14:12
Speaker 1: lot more than just kind of show up for them
14:14
Speaker 1: once a week. It was very much like, let's go
14:16
Speaker 1: on this journey together. And I am here to show
14:19
Speaker 1: you that you are more capable than you've probably ever imagined.
14:23
Speaker 3: Yeah.
14:24
Speaker 2: I mean, such a wild journey and truly so special.
14:28
Speaker 2: to hear that reflection, you talking about how, yes, you
14:32
Speaker 2: were there giving to them, but what was really so
14:35
Speaker 2: valuable was the opportunity for them to give back to
14:38
Speaker 2: you in return.
14:40
Speaker 3: When you reflect on what it was that they gave.
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Speaker 2: To you and those things that you keep with you
14:45
Speaker 2: to this day, what has been so special about coaching women?
14:50
Speaker 2: And then maybe even specifically that late teenage age, especially
14:54
Speaker 2: considering your experience as a teen runner.
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Speaker 1: It's definitely the confidence, I think, kind of reflecting on
15:01
Speaker 1: those young girls, particularly the ones that were there right
15:04
Speaker 1: at the start and then watching them grow into being
15:06
Speaker 1: women and grow into being confident women. So many of
15:11
Speaker 1: those girls I would have looked at and been like, wow,
15:13
Speaker 1: the fact they can go up and get up in
15:16
Speaker 1: front of people and speak and just carry that level
15:18
Speaker 1: of confidence that a lot of women, growing women, don't
15:21
Speaker 1: carry in this day and age. I think that's those
15:26
Speaker 1: years at high school really showed me the power of
15:29
Speaker 1: running for young girls. And I believe if you can
15:31
Speaker 1: kind of help transform young girls, teenage girls who are
15:36
Speaker 1: going through so much in their lives, then those lessons
15:39
Speaker 1: can kind of be transferred over to anybody. But for
15:43
Speaker 1: me now working with more women in their twenties and
15:45
Speaker 1: thirties and forties, everything I kind of learned through working
15:49
Speaker 1: with those young girls is why I apply to the
15:52
Speaker 1: woman that I work through Femi with now. So It
15:55
Speaker 1: was an amazing moment. I mean, I've always had my
15:58
Speaker 1: own experience with how running has built my confidence. And
16:01
Speaker 1: I think what a lot of coaches probably fall into is, oh,
16:04
Speaker 1: if it works for me, then it's going to work
16:05
Speaker 1: for them. And in a way, there's a lot that
16:10
Speaker 1: I've learned as a coach that I've tested and trialed
16:12
Speaker 1: on myself. But I think that kind of approach to
16:15
Speaker 1: just building confidence in people, I have been able to
16:18
Speaker 1: see that across not just a handful or a few women,
16:23
Speaker 1: it's like hundreds and probably thousands of women now through
16:26
Speaker 1: Femi that running can just completely change women's lives.
16:31
Speaker 2: And it's so interesting because when it comes to Femi,
16:34
Speaker 2: this is something that you started in 2020 and you
16:38
Speaker 2: had this motivation and it wasn't just like, I think
16:42
Speaker 2: there should be this thing. It was, I think there
16:45
Speaker 2: should be this thing and I think that I can
16:47
Speaker 2: be the person to make it happen. What is it
16:51
Speaker 2: about you that... makes you the person that is dedicated
16:56
Speaker 2: toward creating this platform, toward creating these educational opportunities for women?
17:02
Speaker 1: Well, firstly, probably a little bit of delusion. I think
17:06
Speaker 1: any startup founder would carry a level of delusion that
17:10
Speaker 1: maybe not everybody has. Just the belief that you can
17:14
Speaker 1: go and build something that doesn't exist in the world already,
17:17
Speaker 1: I think is like it's terrifying. It's scary. You are
17:21
Speaker 1: taking risks every single day. And I don't know if
17:26
Speaker 1: I would be doing what I'm doing now, if I
17:27
Speaker 1: didn't have that level of delusion and kind of crazy self-belief. Um,
17:32
Speaker 1: but I think based on my own experience as an
17:34
Speaker 1: athlete growing up in a system that didn't support women
17:37
Speaker 1: the way that it should, it doesn't have the tools
17:40
Speaker 1: that it should for women. We never got the same,
17:43
Speaker 1: you know, equal opportunity as men in our sport. And
17:47
Speaker 1: so I just saw this huge gap from my own
17:51
Speaker 1: experience and also just knowing how badly it affected me.
17:55
Speaker 1: Like it really impacted my belief, my confidence, but my
18:02
Speaker 1: physical health and my mental health, most importantly, and I
18:06
Speaker 1: didn't want other women to suffer the way that I suffered.
18:09
Speaker 1: And so that was really, and still is to this day,
18:13
Speaker 1: the key driver for why I get up and, you know,
18:16
Speaker 1: show up and build for me every single day. But yeah,
18:20
Speaker 1: I think there definitely has to be a level of delusion.
18:22
Speaker 1: I've always been, I would say, an innovator in the
18:25
Speaker 1: way that I think about the world. Like I've always
18:27
Speaker 1: kind of come up with crazy thoughts and ideas and businesses.
18:30
Speaker 1: And when I was 22 working for Nike, I got
18:33
Speaker 1: up in front of Toby Hatfield when he came to
18:35
Speaker 1: New Zealand, who's one of Nike key designers. He designed
18:38
Speaker 1: the Nike free. He's like one of the top dogs
18:40
Speaker 1: at Nike. And, I remember I pitched to him all
18:43
Speaker 1: these crazy ideas for the business. So I've always had
18:46
Speaker 1: that in me, but I think it took me to
18:48
Speaker 1: get to the age of 30 to actually act on
18:51
Speaker 1: a lot of those ideas where I truly believed that
18:54
Speaker 1: I could do it.
19:11
Speaker 2: There's something so beautiful about the tenacity that all of
19:16
Speaker 2: this requires, something that's so admirable about it. You mentioned
19:20
Speaker 2: the mental and physical struggles that you experienced as a
19:25
Speaker 2: young runner yourself. Let's highlight a little bit of that
19:28
Speaker 2: and unpack what that looked like for you.
19:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately, when I was about 20 years old, I
19:34
Speaker 1: was making New Zealand teams. I was winning national titles.
19:38
Speaker 1: I was under multiple different male coaches in the high
19:41
Speaker 1: performance system that had no education and no understanding of
19:46
Speaker 1: female physiology. And I do want to say it is.
19:50
Speaker 1: not their fault. It's a systemic issue that we've had
19:53
Speaker 1: to kind of deal with and exactly why FEMI exists today.
19:57
Speaker 1: But because of the lack of education and research around
20:00
Speaker 1: female bodies, for those who don't know, only 6% of
20:04
Speaker 1: sport science research is actually conducted exclusively on women's bodies.
20:08
Speaker 1: So Everything that exists, pretty much everything in the sporting arena,
20:14
Speaker 1: all of the coaching programs, all of the training programs,
20:18
Speaker 1: gym programs, all of the science that we have learned
20:21
Speaker 1: growing up as athletes has all been based on male physiology.
20:25
Speaker 1: And male physiology and female physiology is incredibly different. And
20:30
Speaker 1: so my coaches were applying methods both physically and mentally
20:35
Speaker 1: to me that were really made and tested and trialed
20:39
Speaker 1: on men. And so alongside the lack of education around
20:43
Speaker 1: my body and my hormones, my menstrual cycle, my periods,
20:47
Speaker 1: and how all of that would impact my performance, I
20:50
Speaker 1: was also being fed the narrative that if I was
20:52
Speaker 1: in a smaller body, I would be a better athlete.
20:55
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I still hear this narrative a lot today.
20:59
Speaker 1: And I still see a lot of women suffering, thinking
21:03
Speaker 1: that they need to be smaller or skinnier or leaner
21:06
Speaker 1: to be a faster athlete. And it is not true
21:10
Speaker 1: at all. The thing that's going to make you a
21:12
Speaker 1: faster athlete is consistency in your training. And to get
21:16
Speaker 1: consistency in your training, you need to fuel properly, sleep
21:20
Speaker 1: properly and all the good things. But because I was
21:22
Speaker 1: being told that I needed to lose weight to the
21:24
Speaker 1: point I had coaches physically grabbing my body and telling
21:27
Speaker 1: me that if I lost that, I would be faster.
21:29
Speaker 1: I unfortunately fell into five years of disordered eating behaviors
21:35
Speaker 1: because of my body image issues. And I didn't realize
21:39
Speaker 1: what was going on at the time. I really genuinely
21:42
Speaker 1: thought the way that I was feeling was right. I
21:45
Speaker 1: thought the way that I was treating myself, treating my body,
21:49
Speaker 1: I thought all of that was like, just what you
21:51
Speaker 1: had to do to be a good athlete. I thought
21:53
Speaker 1: all of the sacrifices that I was making to my
21:56
Speaker 1: health was going to be worth it because I thought
21:59
Speaker 1: that I would run faster. But I got to a
22:01
Speaker 1: point where my performance just completely plateaued. And then eventually
22:05
Speaker 1: I fell off the edge of the cliff and I
22:08
Speaker 1: lost my period. I lost my menstrual cycle and I
22:11
Speaker 1: ended up in hospital. And I was about 25 or
22:14
Speaker 1: 26 at that point. And I realized that that just
22:16
Speaker 1: was completely unsustainable. It was not helping my performance and
22:23
Speaker 1: my health was absolutely crumbling because of it. So that
22:27
Speaker 1: was the real pivotal moment for me because that made
22:30
Speaker 1: me realize that I couldn't keep doing what I was doing,
22:32
Speaker 1: but I'm very competitive and I'm a very driven athlete.
22:36
Speaker 1: So I decided to figure out what I could do
22:38
Speaker 1: to get better. And I was very fortunate to be
22:42
Speaker 1: given a book called Roar. It's about R-O-A-R written by Dr.
22:46
Speaker 1: Stacey Sims, who is one of the leading physiologists in
22:49
Speaker 1: the space. And that was the first time in my
22:51
Speaker 1: life that I actually learned that my menstrual cycle was
22:55
Speaker 1: actual cycle and that my hormones were changing every single
22:58
Speaker 1: day and that my period was just part of my
23:01
Speaker 1: menstrual cycle. And then on top of learning kind of
23:04
Speaker 1: the science behind my cycle, I learned how important it
23:07
Speaker 1: was to have a period. So rather than being like,
23:10
Speaker 1: I need to lose weight, I completely changed the narrative
23:13
Speaker 1: to I just need to get a consistent cycle. I
23:16
Speaker 1: need to get a regular cycle. And if I can
23:19
Speaker 1: do that, then everything else is going to work out
23:21
Speaker 1: for me.
23:22
Speaker 3: So much to double click on here.
23:23
Speaker 2: The first thing I want to double click on is
23:25
Speaker 2: just for some additional context. You talked about falling into
23:29
Speaker 2: this cycle of disordered eating, feeling as though you were
23:33
Speaker 2: doing just what you quote unquote had to do to
23:36
Speaker 2: perform at that level.
23:37
Speaker 3: What did that look like practically for you at the time?
23:42
Speaker 1: Firstly, I would never eat before a run. I would
23:45
Speaker 1: go into pretty much every run in the morning without
23:47
Speaker 1: fueling before the run. I would then play a psychological
23:51
Speaker 1: game with myself. How long can I last after the
23:54
Speaker 1: run without refueling? And because in my mind, the lower
23:59
Speaker 1: amount of calories I was consuming, the more I was
24:02
Speaker 1: going to be able to lose weight. So it was
24:04
Speaker 1: all about less in and more out.
24:06
Speaker 2: And I went....
24:10
Speaker 1: Through six months, I believe, without eating a carbohydrate because
24:13
Speaker 1: I genuinely believed that the keto diet was going to
24:17
Speaker 1: be my silver bullet to lose weight. This was around 2015, 16.
24:20
Speaker 1: And I think the keto diet at that time was
24:24
Speaker 1: very much trending. And the keto diet for overweight, particularly men,
24:29
Speaker 1: is a really good way for them to lose weight.
24:32
Speaker 1: And I'm no nutritionist. I will point that out. But
24:35
Speaker 1: we were kind of being told that if we were
24:37
Speaker 1: not eating carbohydrates and we're having this high protein, high
24:40
Speaker 1: fat diet, it would help us shred, which I hate
24:44
Speaker 1: the word shred, but that was kind of the message
24:46
Speaker 1: we were being told. And so I did exactly that.
24:50
Speaker 1: I cut out carbohydrates. There were days where I would
24:53
Speaker 1: try and survive off just like a piece of, you know,
24:55
Speaker 1: like an apple. I was just doing insane things. Like
24:59
Speaker 1: I would write on my hand, the word stop. So
25:02
Speaker 1: if I was picking up food, It was like a
25:04
Speaker 1: reminder to like not eat the food. And honestly, I
25:09
Speaker 1: hand on heart genuinely thought this was all normal behavior.
25:12
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that my relationship to food was bad.
25:18
Speaker 1: And I would also, which is completely insane now, I
25:25
Speaker 1: would try and not drink too much water because I
25:27
Speaker 1: thought the water would make me puffy as well. But
25:30
Speaker 1: these are like, it's really sad to think that these
25:33
Speaker 1: were the conversations that were going on in my head
25:35
Speaker 1: because of the messages that society was telling me. And yes,
25:39
Speaker 1: it was my coaches. But if you layer that upon
25:42
Speaker 1: like all the media that we grew up with, kind
25:44
Speaker 1: of all the stories that we were being told, the
25:47
Speaker 1: comparison of social media at the time, like It was
25:50
Speaker 1: just the perfect storm for me to find myself in
25:53
Speaker 1: a place where I hated my body.
25:55
Speaker 2: It's so heartbreaking because all of this that you're saying
25:58
Speaker 2: are messages that I, and I'm sure so many people
26:01
Speaker 2: that are listening to this right now, were exposed to
26:04
Speaker 2: at one point or another.
26:05
Speaker 1: As well.
26:06
Speaker 2: Just being smaller is better. I'm so interested to, and
26:10
Speaker 2: we won't go too far down this rabbit hole, but
26:13
Speaker 2: hear a little bit on whether or not the GLP-1
26:16
Speaker 2: craze is as big in Australia as it is here
26:19
Speaker 2: in the United States, noting that obviously here in the
26:22
Speaker 2: United States, we certainly have an obesity epidemic, but what
26:27
Speaker 2: is it like there? Are you getting all that same messaging?
26:31
Speaker 1: I don't think it's as bad down here, but I
26:33
Speaker 1: also want to acknowledge that I am in a particular
26:36
Speaker 1: circle where it probably doesn't exist so much. I assume
26:40
Speaker 1: that there probably are places around Australia where the conversations
26:43
Speaker 1: are going on a lot more, more and more people
26:45
Speaker 1: are leaning into it. I mean, you would have witnessed
26:48
Speaker 1: Australia when you came down here, how active the community
26:50
Speaker 1: is here. People love to exercise and we are very
26:55
Speaker 1: fortunate to be in a safe country where we can
26:58
Speaker 1: do that.
26:58
Speaker 2: So That's so interesting even to point out that we
27:01
Speaker 2: are in a safe country. And I'm just using your
27:03
Speaker 2: words back because it's so true. Like when you go
27:05
Speaker 2: to Australia and everyone is up and moving at literally
27:08
Speaker 2: 5 a.m., like that is truly the normal. You go
27:10
Speaker 2: outside at 5.15 and there are people everywhere. The cafes,
27:14
Speaker 2: they open at 6. Like you just don't get that
27:16
Speaker 2: in America. And to then add on to that, it definitely,
27:20
Speaker 2: I would say, is not always the safest thing to
27:23
Speaker 2: be running before the sun comes up here. And also,
27:28
Speaker 2: I do want to point out, as we obviously touch
27:30
Speaker 2: on GLP-1s, that I do believe that for many people
27:34
Speaker 2: under the right medical supervision, they can totally be an asset.
27:38
Speaker 2: But I do think that, especially here in the United States,
27:41
Speaker 2: they are certainly abused in a way that can be
27:44
Speaker 2: extremely dangerous just because we don't have all of the
27:48
Speaker 2: science knowing what the side effects can be for so
27:52
Speaker 2: many different diverse populations.
27:54
Speaker 1: I mean, the long-term impact of anything that is new
27:57
Speaker 1: is what scares me because we don't know what's going
27:59
Speaker 1: to happen. How are these people going to feel in five,
28:02
Speaker 1: 10 years? What are their systems going to do if
28:04
Speaker 1: they come off it? It's all quite scary. But I
28:07
Speaker 1: guess for me, the other scary side to just where
28:11
Speaker 1: we are in the fitness industry is the messaging still
28:14
Speaker 1: being around how we work out to change the way
28:17
Speaker 1: we look and That is one thing that really infuriates
28:20
Speaker 1: me and is definitely something that we're trying to change
28:23
Speaker 1: it for me. But when you're working against a beast
28:25
Speaker 1: that is worth so much money, these companies and these
28:30
Speaker 1: products are benefiting off making women feel bad about themselves
28:33
Speaker 1: and telling them that they need to change the way
28:35
Speaker 1: they look because they don't fit into what is societally accepted.
28:39
Speaker 1: That's where I think there are more dangers than ever.
28:43
Speaker 1: Women are still being told that, they need to tone
28:47
Speaker 1: up or get shredded or lose weight or get abs
28:51
Speaker 1: even like the particular words that are used to me
28:54
Speaker 1: are still very triggering. And I, yeah, I really want,
28:59
Speaker 1: I think that's why running so powerful in the fitness industry,
29:03
Speaker 1: because when women realize that as a runner, you don't
29:06
Speaker 1: have to look a particular way. And when the results
29:09
Speaker 1: are based on, wow, I just went for the fastest
29:12
Speaker 1: run I've ever done, although I've run the furthest I've
29:14
Speaker 1: ever run. Maybe it's their first five Ks. Like to me,
29:18
Speaker 1: that's so empowering and it can literally reframe women's minds
29:22
Speaker 1: around like, I don't need exercise to lose weight. There's
29:25
Speaker 1: actually all these other rewards that can come from exercise,
29:28
Speaker 1: like how far I can run. It completely changes the
29:32
Speaker 1: way you feel about your body and That is what
29:35
Speaker 1: happened with me once I realized how to look after myself.
29:38
Speaker 1: I was like, actually, I just want to be a
29:39
Speaker 1: good athlete. I don't care what I look like.
29:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I do believe that although slowly we're getting
29:46
Speaker 2: to a place where people are benchmarking the success of
29:51
Speaker 2: a run, not strictly on the time associated with it,
29:57
Speaker 2: but on other key indicators, like how someone feels when
30:02
Speaker 2: it's done or the community that you can find.
30:04
Speaker 3: On the run when you lace up your shoes.
30:07
Speaker 2: I do feel as though we're not quite there yet,
30:11
Speaker 2: but we're certainly inching closer.
30:13
Speaker 1: Particularly in the women's running community, it is much more wholesome.
30:17
Speaker 1: I really believe women are seeing the beauty of running
30:21
Speaker 1: beyond the The numbers, the numbers on the scale, the
30:24
Speaker 1: numbers on the apps or the computer screens, like I
30:27
Speaker 1: do think women are just seeing how wholesome and how
30:32
Speaker 1: giving the sport can be when it isn't just about
30:34
Speaker 1: the numbers.
30:36
Speaker 2: Talk to me about your journey to holistically accepting running
30:40
Speaker 2: as a tool to make you feel good in your
30:43
Speaker 2: body instead of fighting against it. And I do believe
30:46
Speaker 2: that for you, at least what I know, is that
30:50
Speaker 2: also leaning into the trails has had a really big
30:52
Speaker 2: part in that.
30:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a journey. And I think for everybody,
30:56
Speaker 1: our relationship with running is constantly evolving. as we are
31:00
Speaker 1: as human beings, we should never just be stagnant. I
31:03
Speaker 1: believe we should always be evolving as people. But my
31:07
Speaker 1: relationship with running kind of went off the back of
31:10
Speaker 1: learning about my body and actually training in a way
31:12
Speaker 1: that's right for me back in 2018, 19, and actually
31:16
Speaker 1: started adapting my training around my cycle, fueling myself both
31:20
Speaker 1: in and around training. I was then able to go
31:23
Speaker 1: on and break all my PBs from my 5K to
31:28
Speaker 1: the marathon and I was running the fastest I had
31:31
Speaker 1: ever run. I felt really good because I wasn't focusing
31:35
Speaker 1: about on my looks or what weight was on the scales.
31:39
Speaker 1: It was very much about how much can I train?
31:42
Speaker 1: How can I back my training up? And I started
31:45
Speaker 1: just like doing this insane training I never, ever, ever
31:49
Speaker 1: would have thought was possible for me and was feeling
31:53
Speaker 1: really good. Like I wasn't tired and fatigued the way
31:56
Speaker 1: that I probably expected to feel. And so That was
31:59
Speaker 1: a real green flag to be like, okay, everything you're
32:02
Speaker 1: doing is right. But then I guess the following few years,
32:06
Speaker 1: because I was running so well, performance became all consuming
32:11
Speaker 1: for me. And it was all how fast can you get?
32:14
Speaker 1: And let's try and make all these teams and let's
32:16
Speaker 1: try and win all these races. And I just got
32:19
Speaker 1: quite kind of consumed by the idea of what numbers
32:23
Speaker 1: were showing up on my apps and like where I
32:26
Speaker 1: was getting results. in races, but also like trying to
32:29
Speaker 1: make world's teams. And I did make a world's team
32:32
Speaker 1: in 2021 for the half marathon. And that was also like,
32:35
Speaker 1: you know, just some fuel to the fire. But when
32:38
Speaker 1: I tried to qualify for world champs, um, in the marathon,
32:42
Speaker 1: I kind of put everything into it. All of my,
32:46
Speaker 1: you know, money, time, energy, I trained really hard to
32:49
Speaker 1: try and qualify for world champs. And unfortunately in my
32:52
Speaker 1: qualifying race, I, absolutely bombed and pulled out at like 20, no,
32:56
Speaker 1: 32 or 33 Ks it was. And that was a
33:00
Speaker 1: real moment for me to realize, like, firstly, when I
33:04
Speaker 1: pulled off the course, I was in hysterics. I was
33:07
Speaker 1: so sad and upset that I didn't get the result
33:10
Speaker 1: that I almost expected because I was so fit. I
33:13
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is good. I've got this in
33:14
Speaker 1: the bag. Like, I don't even need to worry about this.
33:16
Speaker 1: All I have to do is execute the race, which
33:18
Speaker 1: I didn't do. And so I think that for me
33:21
Speaker 1: was like, it really showed me that nothing in life
33:24
Speaker 1: is guaranteed. Running doesn't guarantee you anything. It doesn't owe
33:27
Speaker 1: you anything. And after a few days of kind of
33:31
Speaker 1: moping around and being sad, I reassessed my relationship with running.
33:36
Speaker 1: And I just remembered how much I just loved getting
33:39
Speaker 1: up every day and just getting outside and going for
33:42
Speaker 1: a run. And I just had this really pure joy
33:46
Speaker 1: for the sport. And I wanted to get back to that.
33:48
Speaker 1: And so over the last seven or eight years, I've
33:51
Speaker 1: kind of been building myself into this place where I
33:54
Speaker 1: want to be a competitive athlete, but I don't want
33:56
Speaker 1: to take it too seriously. It is just running at
33:59
Speaker 1: the end of the day. There is much more to
34:01
Speaker 1: life than just running, but running can also change who
34:05
Speaker 1: I am as a person. So there's this kind of
34:07
Speaker 1: balance of like, there's this like very serious, very impactful
34:12
Speaker 1: side of the sport and what it can do for
34:13
Speaker 1: me to this, like, it's just a game and play
34:17
Speaker 1: the game. And it's just, We're doing it for fun.
34:20
Speaker 1: And I kind of to and fro between that. But
34:22
Speaker 1: I think if you can find the right balance between
34:23
Speaker 1: those two things, then you're in a really good spot.
34:26
Speaker 1: And for me, trail running has been able to get
34:29
Speaker 1: me there because it does remove all those performance standards.
34:32
Speaker 1: It does remove all those pacing pressures. You just go
34:35
Speaker 1: out into the trail. You're in nature. You're surrounded by
34:38
Speaker 1: the bush. It's just like you against the trail. And
34:42
Speaker 1: I find that as a really peaceful place to be.
34:44
Speaker 1: And I lost my dad last year. So I think
34:47
Speaker 1: stepping into the trail, I grew up in Aotearoa, New Zealand,
34:51
Speaker 1: in the bush. We went hiking all the time when
34:53
Speaker 1: I was young. It really brings me back to my
34:56
Speaker 1: childhood and connects me to my family. And so I
34:59
Speaker 1: really just, I don't know, I love it. And I
35:02
Speaker 1: want to see how good I can get at it.
35:04
Speaker 1: I really am determined to try and become one of
35:06
Speaker 1: the best trail runners ever. that I can possibly be.
35:09
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I never want to lose
35:12
Speaker 1: the playfulness of it too.
35:14
Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing that.
35:15
Speaker 2: And what I loved about that at the end is
35:18
Speaker 2: that you said, I want to be one of the
35:21
Speaker 2: best trail runners that I can possibly be. It's not,
35:25
Speaker 2: I want to be one of the best trail runners
35:27
Speaker 2: in Australia, or I want to be one of the
35:29
Speaker 2: best trail runners in the world.
35:31
Speaker 3: It's just truly... focusing on you.
35:34
Speaker 2: For individuals who hear you, who also struggle with at
35:38
Speaker 2: times falling into that comparison trap, what advice do you
35:42
Speaker 2: offer them?
35:44
Speaker 1: You can't control what anybody else is doing. You can't
35:49
Speaker 1: control who shows up to a start line. You can't
35:51
Speaker 1: control what training they've done to get there. All you
35:55
Speaker 1: can control is what you give every day and the
35:59
Speaker 1: position that you're going to be in on race day.
36:03
Speaker 1: And even some days you can't control that. As you
36:06
Speaker 1: probably know, when you got food poisoning in Sydney, there
36:08
Speaker 1: are things that happen. There are things that happen. But
36:12
Speaker 1: I think what I've definitely learned with age is that
36:17
Speaker 1: all you can focus on is yourself and you are
36:20
Speaker 1: the only you that exists. So lean into your superpowers and,
36:24
Speaker 1: you know, your superpower might be your consistency or your
36:28
Speaker 1: superpower might be your determination. Or your superpower might be
36:32
Speaker 1: the dog that comes out of you on race day.
36:34
Speaker 1: Like we all have different superpowers. For me, it is consistency.
36:38
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've got the dog that some
36:40
Speaker 1: of my friends have who are incredible on race day.
36:43
Speaker 1: But I think if you can just lean into the
36:45
Speaker 1: things that you can do really well, then eventually you'll
36:48
Speaker 1: get to a position that will be the best that
36:50
Speaker 1: you can possibly ever be. And I'm excited to find that.
36:54
Speaker 1: And if that means that I am winning races, then
36:57
Speaker 1: that's epic. That's a cherry on top. But if it
37:00
Speaker 1: means that I'm not, but I'm still able to kind
37:02
Speaker 1: of execute my potential, that I'm going to be happy
37:06
Speaker 1: with that. And as a coach, as a friend, as
37:09
Speaker 1: a family member, all I want in my life is
37:12
Speaker 1: to see the people around me reach their potential. That
37:15
Speaker 1: is like my end goal because everybody has got potential
37:19
Speaker 1: that they just don't realize exists. And nothing fills my
37:22
Speaker 1: cup more than seeing people flourish and like really just
37:27
Speaker 1: be their authentic selves and achieve these things they didn't
37:29
Speaker 1: ever think was going to be possible in their lives.
37:32
Speaker 1: So for me, I just want to reach my potential.
37:34
Speaker 1: And every day that's hard for me. Like every day
37:36
Speaker 1: I'm like, am I doing enough to get to my potential?
37:40
Speaker 1: But you have to be patient too. I think that's
37:42
Speaker 1: a really important piece of the puzzle as a runner.
37:45
Speaker 3: Spoken like a true coach.
37:47
Speaker 2: Do you feel as supported as the support that you
37:51
Speaker 2: so willingly give to others?
37:54
Speaker 1: I have the most amazing community around me and I
37:57
Speaker 1: feel so lucky. I mean, I've worked with Nike for
37:59
Speaker 1: nearly 20 years, so I'm very lucky to have the
38:02
Speaker 1: swoosh supporting me and my goals, both like with my
38:05
Speaker 1: career and my running. And I have the most amazing
38:08
Speaker 1: training group up in Noosa. We have an incredible group
38:11
Speaker 1: who are all like very similar in the way they
38:14
Speaker 1: are determined to work hard, but they want to have
38:16
Speaker 1: fun with it at the same time. And then beyond that,
38:19
Speaker 1: the Femi community, we have tens and thousands of women
38:22
Speaker 1: all around the world who are on this mission to
38:25
Speaker 1: break down gender equality barriers in sport together and when
38:29
Speaker 1: I do one small thing you feel the roar of
38:33
Speaker 1: that army of women around you and I just feel
38:35
Speaker 1: so grateful because they are who you know they get
38:39
Speaker 1: me up every day they make me determined to keep
38:42
Speaker 1: pushing whether it's when I'm doing like a public speaking
38:44
Speaker 1: event or if I'm lining up at a start line
38:47
Speaker 1: or if I'm just turning up to a community event
38:49
Speaker 1: with me you feel the energy of those women in
38:52
Speaker 1: a room like it's just Hard to explain if you
38:55
Speaker 1: haven't experienced it, but I just feel grateful to kind
38:58
Speaker 1: of have that energy around me. So I feel like
39:00
Speaker 1: I get way more back than what I give out,
39:03
Speaker 1: to be fair.
39:20
Speaker 2: I love hearing about the work that you've done with
39:24
Speaker 2: Femi and how you've had this really beautiful opportunity to
39:28
Speaker 2: grow this platform.
39:29
Speaker 3: And also, I know that it hasn't been easy.
39:33
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about getting that off of
39:36
Speaker 2: the ground and what some of the biggest challenges are
39:39
Speaker 2: with it today.
39:40
Speaker 1: I mean, voting technology is a beast, probably one that
39:46
Speaker 1: I underestimated when we first started Femi. I kind of
39:50
Speaker 1: went from being a running coach. I was writing thousands
39:54
Speaker 1: and thousands of programs for people all over the world,
39:56
Speaker 1: but it was all very manual. It was like on spreadsheets.
40:00
Speaker 1: And I knew I wanted to kind of evolve what
40:03
Speaker 1: I was doing at the time back in like 2019,
40:05
Speaker 1: but I didn't know where or how. And then once
40:08
Speaker 1: we kind of started developing Femi as this female specific,
40:11
Speaker 1: woman specific training platform that obviously naturally made sense to
40:16
Speaker 1: me to be able to take what I'd learned through
40:19
Speaker 1: my own coaching business, evolve that into Femi, and then
40:23
Speaker 1: eventually evolve that into our app. And so we started
40:27
Speaker 1: ideating the app back in 2021 because we just saw
40:30
Speaker 1: this huge gap. When we were working with women through Femi,
40:33
Speaker 1: initially it was a one-to-one coaching service. We were using
40:36
Speaker 1: like five different platforms in order to serve her. It
40:39
Speaker 1: was like we manually tracked her periods. We manually gave
40:45
Speaker 1: her all of the information around how her hormones were
40:47
Speaker 1: impacting her. We then had to write her programs on
40:50
Speaker 1: top of that. We then had to communicate with her.
40:52
Speaker 1: So there was just all these different platforms that we
40:55
Speaker 1: had to pull together because not one platform existed for women.
40:59
Speaker 1: We did a kind of analysis of the fitness platforms
41:02
Speaker 1: in the app store and less than 1% of those
41:05
Speaker 1: fitness platforms were actually created for women from the ground up.
41:10
Speaker 1: There are definitely platforms now that were built and they've
41:13
Speaker 1: kind of tried to bring the female physiology aspect into it,
41:18
Speaker 1: but they weren't built specifically for her. And so we
41:22
Speaker 1: were like, okay, how can we kind of take this
41:25
Speaker 1: new coaching method around female physiology and build a platform
41:29
Speaker 1: that includes the cycle and actually is made for women
41:32
Speaker 1: from the start? So we went through a startup accelerator
41:37
Speaker 1: program in 2022 called StartMate. that was my first kind
41:41
Speaker 1: of exposure to the startup world and the kind of brutal, male-led, masculine, competitive,
41:51
Speaker 1: quite toxic environment that the startup world is. And I
41:56
Speaker 1: had no idea really, there's a lot of life learnings
41:59
Speaker 1: through it. I just had no idea the way that
42:01
Speaker 1: businesses were being built that less than 2% of venture
42:06
Speaker 1: capital money goes into female founders. I had no idea
42:10
Speaker 1: that more than 98% of the companies that are being
42:14
Speaker 1: built are being built by men, funded by men, because
42:17
Speaker 1: men see men and think that there's more opportunity there.
42:20
Speaker 1: There were so many massive light bulb moments to me
42:24
Speaker 1: throughout that process that made me even more, I want
42:28
Speaker 1: to say angry, but let's say determined to actually build
42:31
Speaker 1: something for women. And throughout that process, 23, 24, I
42:37
Speaker 1: pretty much spent 95% of my time trying to raise
42:39
Speaker 1: capital for Femi. I would have spoken to probably close
42:43
Speaker 1: to 200 investors. We were trying to raise capital so
42:47
Speaker 1: that we could build a team and build the technology.
42:50
Speaker 1: And we were somewhat successful, but I think what has
42:54
Speaker 1: been really hard is watching other companies who have been
42:58
Speaker 1: built by men in a similar space get funded and
43:01
Speaker 1: become these kind of huge corporate beasts And we have
43:06
Speaker 1: just tried to like scramble our way through it because
43:08
Speaker 1: we just couldn't raise the money that we needed. So
43:11
Speaker 1: that has probably been the hardest part of building for me.
43:15
Speaker 1: But I mean, today we aren't raising capital the way
43:21
Speaker 1: that we were a few years ago. I've had a
43:24
Speaker 1: lot of learnings through that process. We kind of hired
43:27
Speaker 1: a team. There was a point where I had to
43:29
Speaker 1: make my entire team redundant, which was one of the
43:32
Speaker 1: hardest things I've ever had to do in my life
43:34
Speaker 1: because those people were my friends and I'd built really
43:37
Speaker 1: solid relationships with them. They too had had a huge
43:41
Speaker 1: impact on Femi. And as an empath, as a woman
43:44
Speaker 1: who really cares about people's emotions, I really struggled through
43:49
Speaker 1: that time in my life. Um, but it is, it's
43:52
Speaker 1: all learnings. It is, it's all part of the game
43:55
Speaker 1: that life is, you know, and, um, I am fortunate
43:59
Speaker 1: and grateful to have had those experiences, even though they
44:02
Speaker 1: were challenging.
44:03
Speaker 3: Yeah.
44:04
Speaker 2: I mean, this also brings to light and clearly being
44:09
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, building something, having to make hard decisions, that's
44:13
Speaker 2: one type of a difficult hurdle, one type of grief.
44:16
Speaker 3: You also mentioned losing your father.
44:18
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people listening can relate to
44:22
Speaker 2: this I'm dealing with something that's really hard. I'm processing
44:26
Speaker 2: this in real time. How does that relate to the
44:29
Speaker 2: way that I both treat my body and the way
44:31
Speaker 2: that I move my body? Talk to me a little
44:34
Speaker 2: bit about how your relationship with grief has evolved over
44:39
Speaker 2: time and how that has intertwined with the way that
44:43
Speaker 2: you move as both an athlete and a coach.
44:54
Speaker 1: Weirdly, actually, really, unfortunately, when I had to make my
44:58
Speaker 1: team redundant and make those really massive, hard, emotional decisions
45:04
Speaker 1: for the company, that was only about four or five
45:07
Speaker 1: months before my dad passed away. And my dad had cancer.
45:10
Speaker 1: He had brain cancer. And it was a very slow
45:14
Speaker 1: kind of progression to his passing. And so that four
45:18
Speaker 1: to five months before he passed away, I was actually
45:20
Speaker 1: living at his house. I was caring for dad. at
45:23
Speaker 1: the same time, is trying to keep my business afloat.
45:26
Speaker 1: Now I look back on it and I'm like, wow,
45:28
Speaker 1: how did I keep it together? I think if you
45:31
Speaker 1: had told me that all of those things were all
45:33
Speaker 1: going to happen at once before they all happened, I
45:35
Speaker 1: was like, there is absolutely no way I'm going to
45:37
Speaker 1: be able to handle that. But it is amazing what
45:40
Speaker 1: you do when you have to do it, when you
45:43
Speaker 1: have to get up in the morning and change your
45:45
Speaker 1: dad's diaper and change his bed and look after him
45:48
Speaker 1: and care for him and then front up to a
45:51
Speaker 1: team that you're responsible for you do it. You just
45:55
Speaker 1: have to get it done. And I mean, I'm not
45:57
Speaker 1: a mom, but I have many friends who are parents
46:00
Speaker 1: and I imagine it's very similar for them when they
46:02
Speaker 1: are going through days that are super challenging and feel
46:06
Speaker 1: like they couldn't get through them. They still get up
46:08
Speaker 1: and look after their children. They still do the thing
46:10
Speaker 1: that they need to do. And so for me, I,
46:13
Speaker 1: throughout that period of time where life was very tumultuous,
46:17
Speaker 1: running was my safe haven. Like it really was my
46:21
Speaker 1: escape and I think there were a lot of, I
46:24
Speaker 1: wouldn't say a lot, but there were people in my
46:26
Speaker 1: life who probably questioned why I would go out for
46:29
Speaker 1: a run when my dad is at home sick and
46:31
Speaker 1: I have all these other things I need to do.
46:33
Speaker 1: But like allocating that 30 minutes or an hour a
46:36
Speaker 1: day to go out for my run, I just had
46:39
Speaker 1: to do that for my own sanity. And I probably
46:41
Speaker 1: wouldn't have got through it if I didn't have running.
46:44
Speaker 1: So who knows where I would have been, but I
46:46
Speaker 1: was so lucky to be able to kind of have
46:49
Speaker 1: that as a place because I have had it in
46:51
Speaker 1: my life forever. I've known that it's the place that
46:55
Speaker 1: I need to go to when I need some kind
46:57
Speaker 1: of self-love. I need some time to kind of process things.
47:01
Speaker 1: Some days I would run, you know, just blasting music.
47:04
Speaker 1: Other days I would listen to podcasts to completely take
47:07
Speaker 1: my mind away. And then there'll be days where I
47:09
Speaker 1: would just go out with no headphones and literally just cry.
47:12
Speaker 1: Like I would just be on runs. I'm going to
47:14
Speaker 1: cry now, but like I'll be on runs just like,
47:16
Speaker 1: bawling my eyes out because it was such an emotional time.
47:19
Speaker 2: For you, as you say, like, I don't know how
47:22
Speaker 2: I got through it. I'm sure that there were days
47:24
Speaker 2: where you felt like you weren't getting through it, right?
47:27
Speaker 2: And it's only when you look back and you have
47:31
Speaker 2: the ability to zoom out that you realize that these
47:34
Speaker 2: small routines that you had in your life were empowering
47:37
Speaker 2: you to show up in ways that otherwise you felt
47:40
Speaker 2: were completely unbearable.
47:42
Speaker 3: Unfathomable.
47:43
Speaker 2: I think also when it comes to using movement as
47:46
Speaker 2: a tool to navigate grief, so many, and I'm sure
47:51
Speaker 2: many people have messaged you with these same sentiments. So
47:55
Speaker 2: many women have messaged me and they say, I know
47:58
Speaker 2: that I'm taking it too far. As a coach, when
48:01
Speaker 2: you hear that, and also just as a human being
48:03
Speaker 2: who's navigated your fair share of of grief, what do
48:06
Speaker 2: you say to people that may be dabbling just a
48:09
Speaker 2: little bit too far close to the sun when it
48:12
Speaker 2: comes to moving their bodies to process grief and trauma?
48:15
Speaker 1: You are the only person that knows what you need
48:19
Speaker 1: and you really have to listen to your body. And
48:21
Speaker 1: for some people going to the extremes when they are
48:25
Speaker 1: going through grief from the outside, it might look like
48:28
Speaker 1: it's too much, but it's potentially what they need. And
48:32
Speaker 1: I think you just have to listen to body, mind,
48:36
Speaker 1: and find the space for you. There were definitely days
48:39
Speaker 1: where I was like, there is no way I could
48:41
Speaker 1: go out and do my long 30K run. I'm just
48:43
Speaker 1: going to go out for 30 minutes and kind of
48:46
Speaker 1: just take the goodness from what I can do in
48:48
Speaker 1: that time. But particularly when my dad went into hospice,
48:52
Speaker 1: he was in hospice for six weeks, which is quite unusual.
48:55
Speaker 1: Like most people are in hospice for a week at
48:57
Speaker 1: the most. So it was a really long time. And
49:00
Speaker 1: me and my sister were doing night on, night off.
49:02
Speaker 1: So we were spending full nights with him where we'd
49:04
Speaker 1: get no sleep at all. And so throughout that time,
49:08
Speaker 1: it was definitely like, I don't need to be going
49:11
Speaker 1: and pushing the boat out too far. I don't need
49:13
Speaker 1: to be going and getting as fit as I possibly
49:16
Speaker 1: can right now. Running for me isn't about training for
49:19
Speaker 1: a race. at that time. It was very much like,
49:22
Speaker 1: it is literally just my outlet to go and find
49:25
Speaker 1: some space for myself. So I think you, I'm sure
49:29
Speaker 1: everybody that is listening that as a runner can understand that,
49:32
Speaker 1: you know, running can bring so much more to our
49:35
Speaker 1: lives than just being fit and fast and running quick.
49:39
Speaker 1: And I think you've just got to find out what
49:41
Speaker 1: your why is at the time and really lean into it.
49:44
Speaker 2: Let's chat a little bit about the cycle, obviously something
49:48
Speaker 2: that you are well-versed in. Knowing that you have now
49:51
Speaker 2: at this point worked with so many women to help
49:55
Speaker 2: them understand what life can look like at different times
49:59
Speaker 2: during the month, what would you say is probably the
50:02
Speaker 2: biggest misconception that women have when it comes to exercising
50:07
Speaker 2: and their own body?
50:08
Speaker 1: Well, firstly with the cycle, I think what I definitely
50:12
Speaker 1: got taught when I first started learning about the cycle
50:15
Speaker 1: and probably what has changed, well, at least we've got
50:18
Speaker 1: more education and research about it now, is that everybody
50:22
Speaker 1: experiences their cycle very differently. There is not kind of
50:25
Speaker 1: one size fits all when it comes to how we,
50:29
Speaker 1: how our hormones are impacting both our health and our performance.
50:33
Speaker 1: And so I think it's really important to acknowledge that
50:35
Speaker 1: and know just because you maybe feel really good on
50:38
Speaker 1: these particular days doesn't mean that I'm going to feel
50:41
Speaker 1: really good on those days. I think the biggest misconception
50:44
Speaker 1: is that when you're on your period, you shouldn't exercise
50:48
Speaker 1: or you can't train hard. That's definitely one that was
50:51
Speaker 1: super empowering for me to learn when I realized that
50:54
Speaker 1: actually when you're on your period, your hormones are at
50:58
Speaker 1: their lowest that they can possibly be for someone who
51:00
Speaker 1: has a natural cycle. And so when your hormones are low,
51:03
Speaker 1: you're not kind of having all these interruptions, particularly that
51:06
Speaker 1: progesterone can bring on. And so for me, when I'm bleeding,
51:10
Speaker 1: when I'm actually on my period, I actually can run
51:13
Speaker 1: quite well. And it's a time where I try to
51:16
Speaker 1: turn up the training a bit, turn up the intensity,
51:19
Speaker 1: because I know that I can actually recover quite well
51:21
Speaker 1: as well. And because progesterone can really impact your sleep,
51:25
Speaker 1: it can impact your performance, it can impact the way
51:28
Speaker 1: that you're metabolizing carbohydrates. So when you aren't having kind
51:32
Speaker 1: of those rises and falls of progesterone that you get
51:35
Speaker 1: in your late luteal phase, when you're on your period,
51:38
Speaker 1: for some people, that's where they can get a lot
51:41
Speaker 1: of gains in their fitness. And so I think we
51:44
Speaker 1: grew up in this world of speaking really negatively about
51:48
Speaker 1: our periods. It was always, even at school, I remember
51:50
Speaker 1: being like, oh, drag, I've got my period, or it's embarrassing,
51:54
Speaker 1: it's taboo, or it's just really annoying. I get it.
51:58
Speaker 1: There are kind of inconveniences that come when you have
52:01
Speaker 1: your period. But I think changing the conversation that I
52:06
Speaker 1: have with myself around having my period rather than being like, oh,
52:10
Speaker 1: that's really annoying to being like, yes, I've got my period.
52:14
Speaker 1: Things are clicking. Things are working. I'm healthy. That means
52:18
Speaker 1: that my risk of injury is lower. That's where I
52:21
Speaker 1: started actually celebrating the fact I had a period. So
52:24
Speaker 1: not only is it like this kind of celebration moment,
52:26
Speaker 1: it's also like a let's fucking go. Let's go and
52:29
Speaker 1: train really hard for me. So I think that's a
52:31
Speaker 1: real big misconception. It's just like when I see apps
52:35
Speaker 1: being like, you're on your period, just go for a
52:37
Speaker 1: gentle walk or like, you know, eat some ice cream
52:39
Speaker 1: and sit on the couch. I'm like, no, babe, let's
52:42
Speaker 1: go hard.
52:44
Speaker 3: No, babe, I have a talent.
52:46
Speaker 2: It's actually a unique skill set that I'm basically for
52:50
Speaker 2: every major marathon I've ever run have had my period.
52:54
Speaker 1: Wow, there you go. I mean, you would be much
52:57
Speaker 1: better off for most people, let's say. Some people obviously
53:00
Speaker 1: have really bad symptoms during the period and can't get
53:03
Speaker 1: out of bed, totally feel for those women. And that's
53:06
Speaker 1: not okay. But for those women who feel good on
53:10
Speaker 1: their period, like you better to have your period on
53:12
Speaker 1: race day than be like three or four days out
53:14
Speaker 1: from it.
53:15
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. You know what? It's happening for me. It's
53:18
Speaker 3: all happening for me. Okay.
53:19
Speaker 2: So right now someone comes to your Instagram page. They
53:23
Speaker 2: see the co-founder of Femi. They see a stellar athlete,
53:27
Speaker 2: Nike Pacific head coach. But when you look in the mirror, Lydia,
53:31
Speaker 2: what is it that you see looking back at you?
53:35
Speaker 1: I want to say, I want to see an adventurous
53:39
Speaker 1: woman taking risks and living life to the full, like
53:42
Speaker 1: whether that is achieving these big goals and running or
53:45
Speaker 1: literally just going out and seeing the world and surrounding
53:48
Speaker 1: myself with people who are good people, who have, you know,
53:52
Speaker 1: your best interests at heart and really care for you.
53:55
Speaker 1: And I also willing to take those risks and see
53:59
Speaker 1: the world as an adventure that's what I want the
54:02
Speaker 1: world to see of me is just like I'm determined
54:05
Speaker 1: I'm fierce but I also just want to have fun
54:08
Speaker 1: I do think game life is a game and I
54:12
Speaker 1: think some people play the game better than others I
54:16
Speaker 1: just want to enjoy the game I want to have
54:18
Speaker 1: fun with it and see what's possible and reach my
54:20
Speaker 1: potential in.
54:20
Speaker 3: The game I love that.
54:22
Speaker 2: And I'm sure that there are so many people that
54:24
Speaker 2: come to you with a gazillion questions as a coach
54:28
Speaker 2: when it comes to running. What would you say, Liz,
54:31
Speaker 2: is probably one of your top asked questions?
54:36
Speaker 1: How do I get faster? I think that is genuinely
54:39
Speaker 1: one of the questions that people are always asking. It's
54:43
Speaker 1: just like, how can I increase my speed? But I
54:47
Speaker 1: just don't know if I'd I don't agree with that
54:50
Speaker 1: being the question to ask.
54:52
Speaker 3: What do you wish they'd ask you instead?
54:55
Speaker 1: How can I get consistent in my running? How can
54:57
Speaker 1: I be a sustainable athlete? Those would be the questions
55:00
Speaker 1: that should be being asked. But because we live in
55:03
Speaker 1: this world of comparison, particularly with Strava, all people care
55:06
Speaker 1: about is their pace and what's showing up online. But
55:11
Speaker 1: I think it's way more impressive to see someone who's
55:13
Speaker 1: been running for five or 10 years and barely had
55:16
Speaker 1: an injury and consistently gradually got better, that to me
55:22
Speaker 1: is way more impressive than someone going out and running
55:24
Speaker 1: a really fast marathon within the first one or two
55:26
Speaker 1: years and then not being able to run again. So
55:29
Speaker 1: I guess my answer to that question around sustainability would be,
55:33
Speaker 1: be super patient with your body, follow a program that's
55:38
Speaker 1: made specifically for you and enjoy the ride. I think
55:43
Speaker 1: if your why is to have fun, then you're going
55:46
Speaker 1: to be able to actually go out there and enjoy
55:48
Speaker 1: it for a lot longer and just make decisions that
55:51
Speaker 1: are right for you and not for anybody else.
55:53
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that.
55:55
Speaker 1: All right.
55:56
Speaker 2: Right now, my girl, you have an opportunity to offer
56:00
Speaker 2: yourself a piece of advice. Let's go back to the
56:03
Speaker 2: time period where you just lost all of the.
56:07
Speaker 3: Fun within your run.
56:09
Speaker 2: You DNF'd from that marathon trial and you knew in
56:14
Speaker 2: that moment that you had to make a change. Knowing
56:17
Speaker 2: what you know now, what piece of advice would you
56:20
Speaker 2: offer to your younger self?
56:24
Speaker 1: It's not that serious. Like just stop and smell the
56:27
Speaker 1: roses and you have plenty of time. So just be
56:31
Speaker 1: patient with yourself and don't take it so seriously. I
56:35
Speaker 1: think we all take it so seriously and it doesn't
56:38
Speaker 1: need to be that serious. What I love is seeing
56:40
Speaker 1: athletes like Kelly Hodgkinson who are out there smashing it,
56:44
Speaker 1: crushing it, running so fast, but also having fun. I
56:47
Speaker 1: think that's really inspiring. And I think the world needs
56:51
Speaker 1: to kind of see that because I have athletes who
56:53
Speaker 1: are just, you know, they're good runners, but they're not
56:56
Speaker 1: going to the Olympics. They're definitely not winning the gold.
56:58
Speaker 1: And they put too much pressure on themselves and they
57:01
Speaker 1: just take it too seriously. I'm like, you're going to
57:03
Speaker 1: look back and regret that. Just look up for a
57:06
Speaker 1: moment and smile.
57:08
Speaker 3: Smile. Oh my God, Liz. I'm so happy that we
57:10
Speaker 3: were able to do this.
57:11
Speaker 2: For those that aren't following along with you online just yet,
57:15
Speaker 2: give us the deets.
57:15
Speaker 3: Tell us about you. Tell us about Femi. Tell us
57:17
Speaker 3: about everything.
57:19
Speaker 1: Wow. You can find out more about our app at Femi.co.
57:22
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at Femi. Our Instagram
57:26
Speaker 1: is very much our community vibes. You won't get too
57:28
Speaker 1: many salesy ads on there. It's just about celebrating women
57:32
Speaker 1: and women runners. And then you can find me on
57:34
Speaker 1: Instagram at Lydia ODO.
57:37
Speaker 3: O-D-O.
57:38
Speaker 2: I'm over at Emily Abadi and at Hurdle Podcast. Another
57:41
Speaker 2: hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.