Latest / Nonprofit411 Podcast / Scarcity Mindset: Pradnya Haldipur on Sharing Revenue Work
Transcript
- Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Hello and welcome to the Nonprofit 411 podcast. I am so excited you're here. I'm your host, Sarah Barton from Nonprofit 411, and I'm excited to be joined today by Pradna Haldipper, the founder of Creativity, of Strategy, Creativity, and Mentorship for Social Good. Hello, Pradya. How are you? Pradnya Haldipur: Hello, Sarah. I'm so excited to be here. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes, I'm excited to have you. So as I was doing a little bit of research on you, I learned that you kind of started your work with nonprofits at twenty two as an executive administrator for an art museum. Pradnya Haldipur: you're you're just gonna go ahead. Yeah, you're just gonna go ahead and out me. Yes, that's fine. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: yes, I am Gen X. Yes, I have been in the nonprofit sector for going on thirty years. it's not a secret. And Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mm-hmm. Pradnya Haldipur: been very, very proud of the work that I've gotten to do. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. So super exciting to see that you started in a museum and wow, if I look at your bio, you have worked for some amazing organizations. You've worked for Doctors Without Borders, which I really, really want to hear about. Pradnya Haldipur: Sure. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mount Sinai, Boston Children's, Children's National. So you have all these, you know, some of these big hitters. So excited to talk with you and just have a conversation about the fundraising that you've done, Pradnya Haldipur: Sure. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: some of the things you've learned and and you know, where where you're headed, but You wanna before we start, actually. I want to ask you my favorite question, which Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: is: what is your favorite hobby? Pradnya Haldipur: my favorite hobby. my favorite hobby, I you know what? I will say I've been doing this thing recently. It's very recent. a little bit because my therapist told me I needed to find a way to settle my brain. but also just because I enjoy it. I've been painting notebooks and you know, blank notebooks, the outside covers, and I donate them to a wonderful organization called Kits to Heart that colla they collect packages and and give them to cancer patients. And so for me, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: that's awesome. Pradnya Haldipur: so for me, it's very therapeutic in and it lets me, you know, have a have a Posca marker habit. And and then I donate those. And I can do it a little bit at a time and and I get as you pointed out, I started out in the arts and culture world. It lets me get back there a little bit. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I've actually found like since the pandemic, I I had this period, like the pandemic hit and lots of things changed in my life. I'd been doing lots of art and then art was kind of the thing that dropped out of my life. Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: and so like bringing art back into my life, I'm too Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: just this year, I've started doing, have you ever heard of artist trading cards? So yeah, Pradnya Haldipur: No, no, no. Tell me more. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: they're two and a half by three inch, two and a half by Three and a half inch canvases and it's Pradnya Haldipur: Okay. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: any type of art on it. And then you can actually find groups and you Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: can just trade them with other artists. And so it's like a one for one trade, right? A stamp. It costs one Pradnya Haldipur: That's wonderful. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: for one and a stamp. Pradnya Haldipur: That's wonderful. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: yeah, so much fun. So when you're painting the notebook covers, are you doing like really artistic painting on them? Like Pradnya Haldipur: No, I it's more they're ever each one is different and each one is just letting myself do what feels right in the moment. And I tend towards geometric, I tend towards, you know, trying color theory. very few of them are figurative, but it it's really more about the act of doing it than anything else. And You know, the inside is blank, so I I just hope that someone will find them useful. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. Yes. Well, I love that because you infuse it with a little bit of your energy. And so, you know, we all need to share Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. I hope I do. Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: that. All right. So let's dive into some of your background. Tell tell me a little bit. So we know how you got started, but tell Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: me a little bit about your career over the years with nonprofits and kind of where life has taken you. Pradnya Haldipur: Sure, sure. And and you know, it's interesting. I I appreciate that you started the description back at the very, very beginning because what that meant, right, for someone of my generation and and my career path is that I fell into fundraising by accident. Right. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: These days, I mean, these days it's marvelous, right? There's these wonderful certification programs and And online programs like Daylight and there's the Lilly School of Philanthropy at Indiana University. I mean, all of those resources are there. but way back in the day, if I can call it that, we sort of fell into it, right? We thought, I'm gonna this is literally what happened. I said, I'm gonna. I was the executive assistant to the director of an art museum, and she was wonderful and she was a mentor. And she said, Yeah, go go work with development as long as you know everything else. on your plate is getting done. And I found that I had an affinity for it. And literally over the over the progression of my career, what has kept me in the sector is two things. One is that I've always appreciated the tangibility of it. Right. You know if you've raised the money or not. And hopefully Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: you know what kind of an impact the money has had. And the other thing is, I've I you main you named some of the organizations that I've had the honor of working with. What that has meant is that I have gotten to work with the most extraordinary experts and you know have have consistently been in a position to learn something new every day. And and to be grateful that, you know, neuroscientists and climatologists and artists and I mean, you name it, right? That they've even let me play in their sandbox. Right. I'm I'm yes, I have skills, I know how to raise money, but these are people that have dedicated their lives to some some practice or some area of work. And the thing I am proud of is I hope that I have added value Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: to what they do every day and probably have studied long and hard to be able to do. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I I was talking with someone earlier and we were just talking about the nonprofit sector is filled with people who are just in love with their passion, whatever their passionate thing is, right? And Pradnya Haldipur: Yeah, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: they're doing it. Like they wake up, they eat, sleep, and you know, they eat, sleep, and drink it. It's what they do all the time. And Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. That's right. Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: you're right, the people that it's allowed me to come into contact with in my in my career too. Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I'm so honored to be able to even sit at the table, you know, with so Pradnya Haldipur: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: many of them and and learn from them. And I I'm s I I wish that we could help people understand that from the outside because, you know, you talked about the trainings are now available, but I I personally I don't like the word fundraising. I use it because it's what people recognize, but I Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: think that it really robs the sector of something that is so beautiful in the in terms of the connection and just the power that goes into sharing resources Pradnya Haldipur: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: to change the world. Pradnya Haldipur: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, you know, it's interesting. I I agree about your your position on the word fundraising. I also feel that way about the word nonprofit, to be very honest. Right? Nonprofit, nonprofit is is nothing other than a tax designation. It isn't the nature of the sector, right? It's it's why I use the words social good. And it's why instead of saying fundraising, I talk about revenue generation. resource development because that's what it actually is. And when you think about where the fundraising practitioner falls in that dynamic versus the content expert, right? The other thing that I have often said that surprises people, especially other gift officers, is I think we need to recognize as practitioners that at the end of the day, it's not really us that the donors want to be talking to. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: yeah, yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: Right. I know I know that it's it's the practice, right? And when we talk about how do you engage a potential donor, how do you get them interested? how do you talk about the work? But the the any kind of success that I have had as a frontline resource development person, as someone who generates revenue, yes, we were called fundraisers, has been because one, I knew the message to articulate. And that came through partnership with communications. And the other is I was willing to say, I'm gonna tell you as much as I know, as an educated lay person can tell you about this topic. And then, you know, in about seven minutes, I'm gonna say, you need to meet the actual expert. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: And and it was never an issue, right? Because ultimately. My favorite kind of donors were the ones that really wanted to dive in, really wanted to engage intellectually, wanted to ask the hard questions. So they knew that they were making an investment that had no question to it. And I used that word investment purposefully Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. Pradnya Haldipur: as well. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. I lean into that word too. I I love Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: your language book. And and it as a person who wants to like change this, I need to do a better job of like changing the wording. It's it's hard because you want people to find you for what you do. Pradnya Haldipur: Right, right. No, no. Listen, I I I acknowledge that and and I'm not suggesting that anybody out there using the traditional vocabulary should immediately stop doing it. I think that there's something to, as you say, the education, right? And and having the rational conversations internally and externally. Right. I mean the Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. Pradnya Haldipur: the sector won't won't make that change, embrace those concepts until boards understand. until leadership understands, until these training programs and certification programs embrace the new vocabulary, right? It's not gonna happen overnight. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I call you know, I have changed donors to supporters all the time. Like, right? Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Because our supporters are so much greater than Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: what they can give to us. Like Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I, you know, they are the ones and you can tell me if this is your experience too, but when it feels like the world is crashing in on you, those are the people who tell you your work. does matter. You know, it really matters what you are Pradnya Haldipur: Yes. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: giving in the world. And and I can't live without that support. You know, as a nonprofit professional, I needed them. On my dark days, I needed them Pradnya Haldipur: Yes. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: to support me. And they need me to support them when they're feeling like, you know, the way that they're contributing to this mission isn't important or it doesn't matter. They need me to be able to support them too and say, no, we're all in this together. Pradnya Haldipur: Yeah, yeah. No, that's a very interesting point you make. And I I guess I would for me, I would I would position it a little bit differently in that and and I've all long felt this, right? That that philanthropy is actually n less about generosity and more about a shared desire to solve a particular problem. Now, we can all acknowledge, I think, that the problems of the world are vast, that it can often feel like no matter how hard any of us works or how much money anybody gives, that those problems are insurmountable. And so the kinds of conversations I've had, you know, to to support what you just said is less about mutual support, but more about We are all doing the best we can in our corner of the universe. And everybody's corner of the universe looks very different. And it can look different on a different day, you know. using myself as an example. Have I in my career you know, done the work to to bring eight figure investments into organizations? Sure. That's on that day. On another day, I am the the the troop cookie manager for my daughter's Girl Scout troop. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: And so the size of my universe expands and shrinks, but it's it's still mine, right? And so when donors are feeling funders, donors, supporters are feeling not energized, right? I try to remind them that that everything that they are doing, right? Showing up to events, writing the check, being on boards, Listening to the news every day and knowing what's going on, this is all them engaging in their corner of the universe. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I believe that. And you know and it that's why for me, I feel like the work that we do in helping to bring the revenue is really soulful work. Like it's soulful work because like that that piece of energy is so I mean Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: definitely I could get into the energy of it, but it that it's so needed. It's what keeps our whole network across the world, you Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: know. moving and progressing and evolving into something new. And we do see Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: over time, we see that significant changes have been made. You you work with Doctors Without Borders, but I think about healthcare, you know, Pradnya Haldipur: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: healthcare has like transformed the world. You know, truly. There are Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: things that we don't even have to worry about anymore. my grandmother was a nurse during World War II. And so she was She was a nurse when penicillin was coming onto the market. Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: And and you know, she said, Yeah, well, once it came on, like everybody thought it could it could do the thing, right? But it did. It's it saved so many lives. And and I'm named after Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I'm not named after Clara Barton, but my name rhymes with Clara Barton. Pradnya Haldipur: Well Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I'm not even related. I mean, my husband's name is Barton, but you know, the American Red Cross, like they were doing that in their sector of the world and they still continue to be able to affect their their space in the world. And it matters. Pradnya Haldipur: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: You know that poem, it matters to the one. You the one where you're the starfish poem where you it mattered to that one. I Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: think it matters, right? Even if it's just to that one today. Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, and and and I love that word soulful that you used. I agree with you. And I also think though, I think it's an and, which is we shouldn't hesitate to talk about money as money. Right? I think that maybe and and I think there's been some improvement in this, right? I think that there was a hesitation in the past to So we invented, you know, we we talk about it as philanthropy. Wonderful. But at the end of the day, it is money. It is to be counted, to be spent, the outcomes to be measured, right? It is it is it is part of the the puzzle that allows Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: a mission to be carried forward. And I think we shouldn't hold back in acknowledging that. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. and I think that's the head a lot of people who Fall into this work because they're really passionate about a project that they started. Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I think it's an unexpected piece that they didn't anticipate having to talk about, right? Pradnya Haldipur: Right. Right. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: And so in cultures carry such value, different differing values when it comes to money. How do you how do you share with others like overcoming that the hesitations around? Pradnya Haldipur: Internally, you mean in terms of within an organization, because right, there's Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: the there's there's the common phrase of, you know, does my organization have a culture of philanthropy? And Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Right. Pradnya Haldipur: and I think for me at least, I think that can mean a lot of different things. The way that that I have most successfully worked with colleagues internally is for them to understand that that they don't have to be The person who asks for the money. In fact, almost they almost should not be. But how they can contribute is with the strength of their own knowledge, their own experience, their own expertise. So if we're working on a proposal, let's say, to a potential donor, finance's role in that, programs role in that, deciding who sits in front of The donor, right? That can be variable. It should be variable, depending on the kind of relationship we're building with that donor. And my favorite, my favorite, my favorite things, one of my favorite things is when up-and-coming professionals in the organization do their first donor visit. Because nobody will ever be as passionate and enthusiastic as A young a person who's just been in the field, or an assistant professor that has just gotten his first R01 and is excited about the research they're about to undertake, or a systems Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mm-hmm. Pradnya Haldipur: engineer who has been building all kinds of interesting things, and she she can speak in a poetic way about those systems, and without fail, every single time. having prepped with them, having clarified what the purpose of that engagement is, that the thing I always hear afterwards is, that wasn't as hard as I thought it was gonna be. When Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: do I get to do that again? Because they're realizing that donors are genuinely interested. And that they don't need to do anything more, these young, bright, shiny professionals, then talk about their work with the conviction that they would in any room. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: And so yeah, I think that it's setting those expectations internally. Administratively, one of the things I think that helps build a culture of philanthropy is is is the setting aside of some amount of everybody's time, whether it's a tiny amount or a huge amount, if it's the CEO, to be focused on revenue generation. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes, yes. Pradnya Haldipur: And I've very rarely seen that, to be honest, right? If somebody's working at 100% FTE, can development have 5%? So that it is part of that individual's job role and can be touted. The success that they have had in working with development can be touted in their end of year review. Right? It's a formal commitment on the part of the organization. to apply the the revenue generation lens and by the way to offer professional development because it's a good skill for anybody to have, to have comfort in doing that work. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I love what you're saying. Like I I agree. I think that I I think too that like by organizations setting aside intentional time to work on revenue development, it Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: one, it keeps it front of mind and it shares Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: it among people, right? That's that's a Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: huge that's a huge part. And Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: they get the benefit of finding out. The beauty of it. I mean, you know, I feel geeky saying it, but as a fundraiser, Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: it is, it's so beautiful because you're like, my gosh, like they the the donors can equal the passion of your workers when it comes to talking about the Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: the change that's happening. And and Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: so I love that and I I do agree, like that's Definitely a strategy that needs to happen. And really, in when it comes to revenue generation, what I see very frequently is because it's kind of this unknown quantity about like what do we do with it, it gets ignored almost completely for many organizations, Pradnya Haldipur: Mm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: or they do the standard quo, this yeah, this the yeah, status quo. I and Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: It's fine until it isn't, right? And so we've seen like a lot of disruptions in grants, we've seen a lot of disruptions in other types of philanthropy over the last couple of years. And it's just really shown a spotlight on where organizations have really neglected this piece of their business. Pradnya Haldipur: Yes. And and I would I would say there's a couple of long before the demise of USAID, long before the shrinking of of corporate support, long before the concern around how high net worth individuals and individual donors are are making their contributions, I would argue that that what has held organizations back is a pervasive scarcity mindset. Right. I mean, this I have personally experienced of we need development to raise X factor more, but we cannot invest in more staff, more resources, more platforms, any of it. until you show us you can raise more. Well, that's a little bit of chicken and the egg. And and when I, you know, think about the thing I I so, you know Bombastically say about putting aside a little bit of everybody's FTE to work in concert with philanthropy, with development. The answer I've gotten Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: when I raised this topic was also related to the scarcity mindset, which is: well, if we allot 5% of this program person's time to fundraising, that 5% becomes overhead. And, you know, we we cannot risk. The cost per dollar raised quotient, right? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Okay. Pradnya Haldipur: And and again, the cycle continues. so Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: if I could wave a magic wand and have two things happen in our sector, one would be everyone willing to put aside the scarcity mindset and take some strategic risks. And the other is to put aside that expect expectation. that I think started from the outside going in. I think funders, private foundations, right, they were they were scrutinizing that number of of expenditure, you know, overhead versus direct programmatic. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mm-hmm, yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: And then organizations started holding themselves accountable to that. And it never quite goes away. And so, you know, I think what would happen if Organizations could take a deep breath, try something new. Educate the appropriate stakeholders to help them understand that this thing they're trying might be a complete failure, but they will learn. And ultimately, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: if if the point of revenue generation, strategic planning, program development is sustainability and longevity of the organization, then some of those audacious things need to start happening. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes, yes. Do you do you know of Simon Senec? Yeah, yeah. So like right, it's the long game. It's like, Pradnya Haldipur: yes, yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: you know, let's let's go all in for the long game because Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: it is so im vital for this to continue. yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: I the that it's so interesting to hear you say that because the other the other thing I've observed is the long game means something different in the nonprofit sector. Right? I mean, where in a world where donors won't commit beyond five years and organizations don't want them to, right? How often have we said to ourselves, it's diminishing returns after a certain amount of time? or where projects are not built to look beyond a certain amount of time. And then I think, and I was literally having this conversation recently with a friend of mine in finance. And she was educating me about patient capital. And again, words that I knew but I hadn't used very much, because the the the nature that patient capital does not exist in the philanthropic space. Right? It's it's it's like you you can get a pledge, you can get the get the contribution, then you gotta go ask for it again and again and again. And while one may rightly assume that smart, generous people will always be there, smart, generous people that manage the finance, right? The the finances, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: foundations, corporations, and certainly high net worth individuals, it's not a long term sustainable model. Now how funny is that coming from someone who spent, you know, the amount of time I have raising philanthropic revenue? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. It's it Pradnya Haldipur: So where is the patient capital, I have to ask myself? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, though, you know, it's interesting because I would really we're almost at time, but I I would Pradnya Haldipur: Mm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: really like to dive in because I see that we're losing historically nonprofits have been very creative in their revenue generation. Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: and I see that we've lost some of the knowledge that, you know, existed early 1900s. Pradnya Haldipur: Mm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: and we've lost some of it because the I think because the models were a little bit different in that they knew they had to they had to have some sustainable funding where like it just wasn't happening, right? Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: and so I'd I'd love to do a deep dive on that and see like, is there anything Pradnya Haldipur: Sure. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: from history that we have have lost? Cause I do see like think about endowments in the way that nonprofits Pradnya Haldipur: Okay. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: don't talk about endowments now, but really At the turn of the century, the turn of the nineteenth century, Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: you know, they were that was part of investments and those type of ongoing Pradnya Haldipur: That's right. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: revenue drivers were Pradnya Haldipur: That's right. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: the focus of much of the business work that they did. And so Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: we've I do feel like we've forgotten it, yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: The two worlds have separated. The two worlds have separated. And I think that there are a few of us that sit in the gray. You know, I think Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: that philanthropic advisors, I think some fundraising professionals, I think the people that manage donor-advised funds. you know, there's a few, right? That that straddle straddle both. but there's room for there to be more intentionality around. The philanthropic piece sitting alongside a broader approach to finances. And I would say that, you know, yeah, endowments are very interesting example. Why aren't nonprofits embracing now? Remember, the nonprofit world is huge, and we know that there are some organizations that have very robust endowments. But why are some quite reluctant? Because it feels like money is being locked up. money that Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. Pradnya Haldipur: could help people on the ground tomorrow. So why would we lock it up? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. It it's Pradnya Haldipur: Right? The focus is today and maybe tomorrow. It's not ten years from now. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. But today's non many of today's nonprofits are still here because people did that in the past. And so we definitely have Pradnya Haldipur: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: to like have start having these conversations so that you know we don't see a big gap because we don't want it to drop off and then try to rebuild. That's so much harder than if we sustain the sector ongoing, you know, and in and we've lost In the last five years, we've lost a lot of historical knowledge in the sector because people did retire during the pandemic. We had life loss during the pandemic. Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: and then we had a lot of transition in terms of the workforce. And so Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: we really need to have these conversations and and glean as much as we can from the people who are in our ecosystems. and understand like their point of view and maybe their perspective on things that we could be doing Pradnya Haldipur: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: so that we don't create, you know, maybe a gap in five or ten years where nonprofit sunset and we have to rebuild. because that's just Pradnya Haldipur: Well Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: that's just the harder route. Pradnya Haldipur: No, no, exactly. And and my fear is less about the rebuilding, although I agree with you that that rebuilding will be the harder thing. But it's also who will then not who will not be served in the meantime. And, you Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Absolutely, absolutely. Pradnya Haldipur: know, that's my argument is, you know, please keep an open mind to earned revenue, to endowment, to more audacious investment, right? If you're an organization that That is lucky enough to be sitting on a lot of cash. just keep an open mind and and be willing to think beyond just the next few years Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes, yes. Pradnya Haldipur: because ultimately all of it will impact the mission and the organization's ability to carry out that mission. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yes. That's a perfect space to like kind of end with. That's excellent information. Where can people find you, Pranya, if they want to learn more about you or follow your pathway? Pradnya Haldipur: thank you, Sarah. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm the only Pradnya Haldipur on LinkedIn, so it's fairly easy to find me. yeah, but otherwise I also have a substack called Pradnya Rights, which is a little less Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Awesome. Pradnya Haldipur: formal and I'm a little more I don't know, jokey. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. It's it's the fun thing. It's your your outlet, huh? Yeah. Pradnya Haldipur: It's the fun thing. It's the fun thing. But I do I know I actually do write about the sector there as well. It's just a slightly different approach to it. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Perfect. Well, thank you for joining to for to our listeners. I Pradnya Haldipur: Thank you for having me. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: just want to thank you for yes, you're welcome. And to our listeners, thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed the conversation, I would love it if you would like and subscribe. It really does help me out. And I can't wait to have another conversation with you next week. Bye.