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Social Anxiety- Get Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable · Millennial Mental Health Channel

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Speaker 1: We always hate when older generations kind of crap on
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Speaker 1: the younger generations because who made them that way?
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Speaker 2: Who raised them? Who are the parents?
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Speaker 1: This is Millennial Mental Health Channel. I'm doctor Justin Romano,
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Speaker 1: a child adolescent psychiatry fellow.
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Speaker 3: And I'm Adi Koreo, a licensed clinical therapist. Our podcast
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Speaker 3: is here because we wanted to start a much nearer
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Speaker 3: conversation about mental health.
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Speaker 1: Our goal is to teach you as much as we
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Speaker 1: can by sharing our own experiences and interviewing experts in
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Speaker 1: the mental health field. We will discuss topics like mood disorders,
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Speaker 1: psychotic disorders, substance use, personality disorders, and many more.
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Speaker 3: Millennial Mental Health Channel buy Millennials for everyone. We hope
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Speaker 3: you enjoy today's episode.
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Speaker 1: MMHC is a production of Speaker from iHeartMedia me I Hearmer. Hello,
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Speaker 1: and welcome back to MMHC. We had a long break
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Speaker 1: for the holidays, so it's nice to be back. We
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Speaker 1: feel refreshed, We're ready to do some learning. Today we're
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Speaker 1: talking about social anxiety, Eddie. What gives you social anxiety?
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Speaker 2: I feel like.
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Speaker 3: You know the other day, I gave a professional development
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Speaker 3: training with two of my coworkers and one of them,
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Speaker 3: who's a school counselor who's been doing it for a
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Speaker 3: long time, told everybody in the room, like, isn't it
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Speaker 3: funny that I'm giving a presentation on anxiety and I'm
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Speaker 3: feeling extremely anxious. I don't know, I told you before this,
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Speaker 3: but I went back to a new semester of teaching
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Speaker 3: for me, so outside of working at the high school,
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Speaker 3: I'm teaching at Pacific and I definitely was like I
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Speaker 3: could feel my heart racing a little bit, I was
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Speaker 3: feeling little nervous, got a little sweaty.
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Speaker 2: I don't know.
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Speaker 3: I guess to bring it back to the question and
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Speaker 3: maybe give like a general answer. Maybe things where I
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Speaker 3: am worried that I'll say something wrong. Maybe performances. I
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Speaker 3: don't know, but I do I enjoyed like that kind
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Speaker 3: of stuff.
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Speaker 1: I don't know.
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Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know. Gotcha, what do you
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Speaker 3: got anything that gives you anxiety, that makes you nervous?
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Speaker 2: What are we thinking? You know?
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Speaker 1: When I was younger, crowds didn't like being in crowds
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Speaker 1: in like crowded places. It makes my shoulders really tight,
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Speaker 1: makes me just like, but it's gotten better as i've
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Speaker 1: pushed myself to do it, and the more concerts I've
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Speaker 1: gone to and everything, it just makes it a lot easier,
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Speaker 1: which is the concept of exposure therapy. Like if something
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Speaker 1: makes you anxious, do it a lot and it gets better.
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Speaker 1: So it's gotten better with time. But yeah, definitely.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Just my mom would tell you too, Like when I
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Speaker 1: was growing up, if there was like a crowded place
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Speaker 1: or something.
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Speaker 2: I was just not into it. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: You know what I'll say now that you that we
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Speaker 3: think about it. Anytime where I don't know like how
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Speaker 3: something's going to play out, definitely, yeah, ixious, I'll start to,
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Speaker 3: like all the thoughts pop into my head and I
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Speaker 3: just jump from one to another.
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Speaker 1: All the different possible outcomes. But it seems like from
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Speaker 1: a professional standpoint as a psychiatrist, you as a therapist, counselor,
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Speaker 1: I know I'm seeing a lot of kids with social
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Speaker 1: anxiety and it's happening all the time, especially because I
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Speaker 1: do an assessment called a Scared Child Assessment that rates
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Speaker 1: all of your different types of anxiety generalized anxiety, social anxiety,
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Speaker 1: separation anxiety, and almost all of my teenagers screen positive
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Speaker 1: for social anxiety. It's almost the rule as opposed to
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Speaker 1: the exception that everyone's got some social anxiety going on.
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Speaker 1: So I was curious. As a young psychiatrist'm always thinking like,
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Speaker 1: is this new? Has always been this way? Because it
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Speaker 1: feels like it's new, it feels like it's something that's
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Speaker 1: on the rise. So we wanted to do an episode
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Speaker 1: on it and see what we think. So what we
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Speaker 1: find out, I think.
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Speaker 3: What's hard anytime you start to see I guess this
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Speaker 3: would just be my assumption, but anytime you start to
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Speaker 3: see trends where things become more prevalent or feel like
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Speaker 3: they're more prevalent, Because I think if you and I,
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Speaker 3: in our separate roles in separate states, are kind of
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Speaker 3: experiencing a similar thing where there's an increase and stuff.
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Speaker 3: One of my concerns ends up being like, well, if
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Speaker 3: a lot of people have this, like, how many people
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Speaker 3: are going to kind of like try to downplay it.
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Speaker 3: I see a lot where people will be like, well,
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Speaker 3: if everybody has anxiety, then nobody has anxiety, or like,
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Speaker 3: you know, a little bit of anxiety is good. Yes, correct,
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Speaker 3: that's fine. A little bit of anxiety is good. But
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Speaker 3: I think for a lot of our kids and teens
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Speaker 3: our gen zers, our gen alphas, they're experiencing at a
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Speaker 3: way that they it just impacts their well being and
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Speaker 3: their day to day. So it is I don't know, Yeah,
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Speaker 3: we'll talk about it today, but it is something that
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Speaker 3: I feel like I see a lot too. Just our
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Speaker 3: kids are struggling. They're having a whole being kids, interacting,
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Speaker 3: doing the typical things in the classroom you'd expect, it
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Speaker 3: is hard for them.
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Speaker 1: As a general rule, on MMHC, we say like, if
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Speaker 1: something's getting in the way of your life, it's worth
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Speaker 1: looking into and trying to get help because we don't
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Speaker 1: want these things to get in the way of your life,
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Speaker 1: so you can live your happiest.
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Speaker 2: Life for sure.
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Speaker 1: So some stats in Facts on Social Anxiety is that
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Speaker 1: it is relatively common, with about two hundred thousand new
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Speaker 1: cases per year in the United States. It was initially
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Speaker 1: described in the nineteen sixties, but still over half of
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Speaker 1: people with it never seek any sort of treatment.
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Speaker 3: Another source, the Seattle Anxiety Specialist, say that about fifteen
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Speaker 3: million people in total in the US have been diagnosed,
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Speaker 3: so this is about seven percent of the population. It's
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Speaker 3: also important to consider that there are probably a lot
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Speaker 3: of people not getting diagnosed or not getting treated. I
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Speaker 3: remember one time getting asked this question of like, okay,
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Speaker 3: if this is where the rates of mental health or
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Speaker 3: mental illness is, what is the number?
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Speaker 2: Actually?
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Speaker 3: Is that like a good reflection of it? Is it more?
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Speaker 2: Is it?
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Speaker 3: Would it be less if people were actually seeing practition?
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Speaker 3: And it made me think like this whole like chicken
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Speaker 3: before the egg thing that blew my mind for a
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Speaker 3: little bit, and then I just had to stop thinking
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Speaker 3: about it. And now that I bring it up again,
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Speaker 3: I'm like, I need to like blink a couple of.
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Speaker 1: Times, reboot your brain a little.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, let's pousit real quick.
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Speaker 1: To the average age of onset for social anxiety is
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Speaker 1: about thirteen years old. That's when people really start to
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Speaker 1: feel this the most. It's also sometimes called social phobia
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Speaker 1: to give you like another name, an older name. And
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Speaker 1: we just hear young people say all the time, I
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Speaker 1: just feel like everyone's looking at me, they're judging me
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Speaker 1: all the time. I mean, that's something I hear almost
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Speaker 1: every day from my patients. They're just always afraid that
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Speaker 1: they're being judged in social situations at school and the
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Speaker 1: lunch room and assemblies and everything. They just feel like
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Speaker 1: they're just everyone's eyes are on them and they're being
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Speaker 1: judged constantly.
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Speaker 3: You know what's so interesting about that is that fear
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Speaker 3: of like being spotlighted or being watched, is that this
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Speaker 3: might be one of the times where we are least
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Speaker 3: watched by other people in human history. Everybody else is
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Speaker 3: way into their phone, way into the music and their headphones.
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Speaker 3: They are not paying attention to the world around them,
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Speaker 3: and yet a lot of kids feel like they just
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Speaker 3: have eyes on them twenty four to seven. Here's the
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Speaker 3: thing that I wish we could really get across to
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Speaker 3: a lot of teens is as much as you feel
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Speaker 3: like you're being watched, you're being spotlighted. They're the kids
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Speaker 3: around you that feel the exact same way, and their
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Speaker 3: eyes are down on purpose. They're walking through the halls,
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Speaker 3: pretending to be on their phone. They're walking through the
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Speaker 3: halls head down, got their hood on. I feel like
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Speaker 3: we're being watched the least among our peers, probably in
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Speaker 3: any other generation. But it feels like the eyes are
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Speaker 3: on us all the.
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Speaker 1: Time, totally. That's a great point, and sometimes it's important
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Speaker 1: to tell yourself that in the moment that I might
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Speaker 1: be feeling this way, but is that the reality of
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Speaker 1: the situation. Does anyone really care? Is anyone really looking
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Speaker 1: at me? Am I really being judged? Or One thing
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Speaker 1: I try and tell my young patience is if you
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Speaker 1: see someone out in public, like are you saying are
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Speaker 1: you judging them in your mind? Are you saying terrible
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Speaker 1: things in your mind? And most of them say no,
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Speaker 1: you know yea and so like, well then why would
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Speaker 1: they do that too? You back? So trying to help
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Speaker 1: reframe those thoughts so that they're they're not so pervasive,
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Speaker 1: they're not so terrible.
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Speaker 3: A big thing to remember, just with with most mental
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Speaker 3: health disorders is that in order to meet the diagnosis criteria,
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Speaker 3: it has to be getting in the way of your
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Speaker 3: daily life. I think the way they put it as
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Speaker 3: like one of the final criteria for most mental health
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Speaker 3: disorders is like impairment and daily function. Maybe that's just
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Speaker 3: the way that I have it in my head. It
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Speaker 3: makes it a little easier to remember, but yeah, it
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Speaker 3: has to impair your day to day life. And then
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Speaker 3: another stat and fact is that females are more likely
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Speaker 3: to complain of social anxiety than males, while men are
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Speaker 3: actually more likely to have social anxiety around issues like dating.
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Speaker 1: So interesting tidbits, little fun for you, quick story time.
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Speaker 1: Been a while since we've done a story time. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: But during the pandemic especially, I had a lot of
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Speaker 1: patients who were just constantly trying to hide and hide
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Speaker 1: in their own lives.
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Speaker 2: So the type of.
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Speaker 1: Patient that they would grow their hair out long, it
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Speaker 1: would rape it over their eyes, so you never knew
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Speaker 1: where they were looking. They would hide behind their mask
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Speaker 1: and never take it off. They would speak incredibly quiet.
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Speaker 1: They would do anything they could to not be noticed,
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Speaker 1: not be called upon in class, not be singled out
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Speaker 1: or spotlighted in any sort of way. It feels like
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Speaker 1: this has gotten so much better since the pandemic, and
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Speaker 1: I wonder how much if it was having to switch
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Speaker 1: to online schools. But it just seemed like so many
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Speaker 1: young people were just hiding so much, just didn't want
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Speaker 1: to be seen whatsoever. And I'm curious we don't have
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Speaker 1: any solid answers as to why. I didn't even have
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Speaker 1: any solid answers as to if other people were seeing
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Speaker 1: this a big trend like I was, but just interesting
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Speaker 1: and something I wanted to bring up that it was
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Speaker 1: a time where where young people just did not want
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Speaker 1: to be seen.
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Speaker 3: For my story time. It's about books. I'm really thinking
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Speaker 3: about it. As I talked to Justin before this, I've
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Speaker 3: done a lot of reading on anxiety and social anxiety
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Speaker 3: like this school year, and I guess I didn't really
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Speaker 3: realize it until ten minutes ago. So right now I'm
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Speaker 3: reading this book called The Anxious Generation by John Hate.
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Speaker 3: I think that's how you pronounced the last name. It's
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Speaker 3: been pretty popular. I believe it came out in July
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Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four. I mean it's so popular, in
10:19
Speaker 3: fact that when I checked it out from my local library,
10:21
Speaker 3: remember support your local library. When I checked it out
10:24
Speaker 3: from the library, it had just gotten returned the day before,
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Speaker 3: and it was in the no holds, no renewal section
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Speaker 3: and you only had fourteen days to read it as
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Speaker 3: opposed to the twenty one days that you normally get
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Speaker 3: with a book. So it's pretty popular. I tried to
10:39
Speaker 3: put a hold on it for the Libby app, and
10:42
Speaker 3: that's got a long ass weight list. So anyway, I
10:45
Speaker 3: have it in my possession. I'm trying to finish it
10:47
Speaker 3: this week because I don't have a choice. I have
10:49
Speaker 3: to return it. But he's a social psychologist. He brings
10:53
Speaker 3: up a lot of really interesting points in terms of
10:56
Speaker 3: why he thinks that our gen Z or Gen Alpha,
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Speaker 3: and maybe even maybe even a little bit of the
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Speaker 3: millennials are so anxious today. He mentions things like having
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Speaker 3: less of a play based childhood. He mentioned things like
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Speaker 3: potentially overprotectiveness from parents, and then he brings up, like
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Speaker 3: you would expect, social media and internet use. What I
11:15
Speaker 3: do like about his perspective is he's not just leaning
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Speaker 3: into only social media and internet use. I think that's
11:21
Speaker 3: an easy thing for us to lean into. But he
11:24
Speaker 3: does bring up some other factors like the play based
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Speaker 3: childhood and the parental potentially over protectiveness. So I won't
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Speaker 3: spoil it for you. There's a big twist at the end.
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Speaker 3: Just kidding, there's not because it's a it's an informational book,
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Speaker 3: but if you are a clinician, you're working a school,
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Speaker 3: you're just interested in learning a little more. I do
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Speaker 3: also really recommend a book. I'm not done with it.
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Speaker 3: I would love to finish it by the time the
11:47
Speaker 3: school year ends. Just hard in between stuff with work.
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Speaker 3: But I'm currently reading some book slash manual. It's called
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Speaker 3: Helping Students Overcome social anxiety. Then the subtext is Skills
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Speaker 3: for Academic and social success.
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Speaker 2: That book has been.
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Speaker 3: Really interesting too, because it's really pointed out a lot
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Speaker 3: of things related to what are some signs of social
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Speaker 3: anxiety that we don't typically expect. Things like walking the
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Speaker 3: hall's eyes glued to your cell phone because you don't
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Speaker 3: want to be seen or seeing other people. Things like
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Speaker 3: not wanting to be called on in class so you
12:19
Speaker 3: have to go use the bathroom and then you never
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Speaker 3: come back. Things like I'm already late to school. I'm
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Speaker 3: just not going to go because people are going to
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Speaker 3: see me walk into the classroom. One thing that's really
12:28
Speaker 3: stood out to me maybe a couple of things. Actually
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Speaker 3: I could ramble about this all day, I think, but
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Speaker 3: couple things that have stood out is the authors talk
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Speaker 3: about how social anxiety is often mistaken for shyness. Might
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Speaker 3: not seem like a huge issue, but the issue then
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Speaker 3: comes from people just assume you'll grow out of it,
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Speaker 3: and when you don't grow out of it, then they
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Speaker 3: just start to assume that you're just not taking things seriously,
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Speaker 3: you're not trying to get better, So that really impacts
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Speaker 3: a lot of kids. The other thing that really opened
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Speaker 3: my eyes, a lot of kids who are socially anxious,
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Speaker 3: let's say around the thirteen years old and on, they
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Speaker 3: tend to have when they do have a friend group,
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Speaker 3: they tend to have a very small, strong connection to
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Speaker 3: those friends. So one, if they lose any of those friends,
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Speaker 3: it's a big deal to them because it really is
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Speaker 3: kind of like the end of such an important relationship.
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Speaker 3: Number Two, they have a really hard time making other friends.
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Speaker 3: So if they go somewhere like a new school, like
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Speaker 3: they move to college, and they have a hard time
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Speaker 3: connecting with others, it's potentially the social anxiety that's really
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Speaker 3: getting in a way. So anyway, if you're interested in
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Speaker 3: learning any more about anxiety, social anxiety, just the where
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Speaker 3: our kids are today, where they might be headed, just
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Speaker 3: some interesting information, I definitely recommend those two books.
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Speaker 1: Cool and another reason why we wanted to talk about
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Speaker 1: this because Eddie's just been prolifically.
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Speaker 2: Reading all of this. Now that I say it, it's like,
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Speaker 2: holy shit, this might be too much.
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Speaker 1: I need to cal them down, put some great points there.
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Speaker 1: And you know, it could certainly even be a combination
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Speaker 1: of a couple of different factors. And yeah, we'll kind
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Speaker 1: of dive more into that. In terms of actual diagnostic criteria,
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Speaker 1: this is what social anxiety disorder is. It is a
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Speaker 1: persistent and intense fear of social situations because you believe
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Speaker 1: you may be judged negatively, embarrassed, or humiliated.
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Speaker 3: Avoidance of anxiety producing social situations or enduring them with
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Speaker 3: intense fear or anxiety.
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Speaker 1: Excessive anxiety that's out of proportion to the.
14:31
Speaker 3: Situation, anxiety or distress that interferes with your daily living, fear.
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Speaker 1: Or anxiety that is not better explained via a medical condition, medications,
14:41
Speaker 1: or substance use. Like if you're slamming a bunch of
14:45
Speaker 1: coffee every day and that makes you really feel anxious,
14:48
Speaker 1: and that's what's causing your anxiety, it's not technically social anxiety.
14:52
Speaker 1: Or if you've got a rip roller in tuma that's
14:54
Speaker 1: releasing like a bunch of you know, catcholamines or something
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Speaker 1: like that, then that wouldn't be social anxiety either.
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Speaker 2: Did I ever tell you about it?
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Speaker 3: I feel like I mentioned this to ever tell you
15:02
Speaker 3: about the In my psychopathology class back in grad school,
15:06
Speaker 3: how our professor wrote us this whole like case conceptualization
15:11
Speaker 3: of like this is a vignette and I want you
15:13
Speaker 3: to tell me what diagnosis you think this is. And
15:16
Speaker 3: he made it so much to the point where everybody thought,
15:19
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, it's got to be like bipolar. They
15:21
Speaker 3: got to be having mania or something, and the answer
15:23
Speaker 3: was like caffeine induced something or other.
15:26
Speaker 2: And we're like, are you kidding? That was cheating.
15:32
Speaker 1: I love the idea of like making a question like
15:35
Speaker 1: that and just having an answer that's totally out of
15:38
Speaker 1: the blue.
15:41
Speaker 2: It worked because you remember, yeah, well, yeah, shit, you're right.
15:45
Speaker 3: But a lot of people were like, I think he
15:47
Speaker 3: wrote this case conceptualization about himself, that man's always bouncing
15:51
Speaker 3: off the walls.
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Speaker 1: He was just trying to feel better about. Maybe some
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Speaker 1: data and studies that we wanted to talk about on
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Speaker 1: this episode are There was a study from Jeffries and
16:04
Speaker 1: Younger twenty twenty. It was a self report survey from
16:08
Speaker 1: multiple countries Brazil, Estonia, Russia, Thailand, US, and Vietnam. On average,
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Speaker 1: thirty six percent of participants aged sixteen to twenty nine
16:18
Speaker 1: met the threshold for social anxiety disorder. The US actually
16:22
Speaker 1: had the highest rate of social anxiety disorder at nearly
16:25
Speaker 1: fifty eight percent, and then surprisingly Indonesia had the lowest
16:30
Speaker 1: at twenty two point nine percent.
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Speaker 3: I feel like I'm not surprised by the US having
16:34
Speaker 3: the highest.
16:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we would do it better than anyone.
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Speaker 2: Baby one on.
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Speaker 3: In the study, ninety percent of new cases of social
16:47
Speaker 3: anxiety reported to have occurred by the time the individual
16:50
Speaker 3: reached twenty three years old, So it was indicating that
16:53
Speaker 3: younger people are the ones that are feeling the most
16:55
Speaker 3: social anxiety, and that kind of coincides with our thoughts
16:58
Speaker 3: and what we've kind of read like from the literature
17:01
Speaker 3: that it tends to be a generational thing, and not
17:04
Speaker 3: necessarily a generational divide, but a generational thing that is
17:08
Speaker 3: more impacting the generations below us in terms of age.
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Speaker 1: So why is social anxiety disorder on the rise? Short answer,
17:17
Speaker 1: we don't know for sure. It's probably the phones, or
17:24
Speaker 1: at least it's contributing heavily to it. One of the
17:28
Speaker 1: hypothesis hypotheses that we were reading about is that social
17:31
Speaker 1: media is causing the rise. There's so much judgment on
17:34
Speaker 1: social media, so much comparison of your life. There's a
17:38
Speaker 1: lot of different hypotheses, and it's probably probably going to
17:42
Speaker 1: end up being a combination of all of them or
17:44
Speaker 1: some of them. There's also a hypothesis that because so
17:47
Speaker 1: many of our interactions are becoming virtual these days, that
17:50
Speaker 1: in person interactions are becoming more awkward and anxiety provoking
17:54
Speaker 1: because people are losing those skills to interact in person
17:59
Speaker 1: and navigate throughfficult or awkward social situations.
18:02
Speaker 3: You know, I have a really hard time with that idea,
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Speaker 3: not because I think it's wrong, but only because I
18:08
Speaker 3: feel like it just gets reinforced for a lot of
18:11
Speaker 3: like older people, from like an older generation of like
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Speaker 3: these kids don't know how to talk to each other anymore.
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Speaker 3: It's like they might have never been taught, they might
18:21
Speaker 3: have not needed to, and maybe we did a shit
18:23
Speaker 3: job of teaching them, right you think of COVID too.
18:26
Speaker 3: I think we've talked about it, either on the show
18:29
Speaker 3: or separately. Like when I got to work in the
18:32
Speaker 3: school the very first year that our school opened full
18:34
Speaker 3: time with kids back, we were wearing masks and stuff.
18:37
Speaker 3: But when we got back to school, like a lot
18:39
Speaker 3: of these kids had not been in school for a
18:41
Speaker 3: year and a half, so our ninth graders may have
18:45
Speaker 3: still been feeling like seventh graders. They didn't know how
18:47
Speaker 3: to interact with high schoolers. So not only did you
18:49
Speaker 3: have ninth graders who were still kind of seventh graders,
18:52
Speaker 3: you had sophomores who were still kind of eighth graders.
18:55
Speaker 3: So you kind of had a mix of middle schoolers
18:57
Speaker 3: and high schoolers trying to interact with each other and couldn't.
19:00
Speaker 3: They had a really hard time.
19:02
Speaker 1: We always hate when older generations kind of crap on
19:05
Speaker 1: the younger generations because who made them that way, who raised.
19:10
Speaker 2: Them, who were the parents?
19:12
Speaker 1: It's you. You gotta look at the mirror, baby. Yeah.
19:17
Speaker 3: Well, there was an interesting study. When I was reading
19:19
Speaker 3: over the notes, this was a it made me think
19:21
Speaker 3: a little bit. But there was a study from Fischler
19:24
Speaker 3: at All in twenty twenty one that speculated that stressors
19:27
Speaker 3: and anxiety are changing on our society as a whole.
19:30
Speaker 3: So things like we're less worried about where our food
19:33
Speaker 3: is coming from, access to clean water, in our safety.
19:36
Speaker 3: We're emphasizing more material goods, money, and social social appearance,
19:41
Speaker 3: and this shift could be causing people to fear more
19:43
Speaker 3: social anxiety, to feel more insecure about themselves. I've talked
19:47
Speaker 3: about when I give classroom presentations about social media and
19:50
Speaker 3: internet use, there's a lot of like fomo fear of
19:53
Speaker 3: missing out. There's a lot of like feeling like we
19:56
Speaker 3: need to wear these certain things because they're trendy.
19:59
Speaker 2: Right.
20:00
Speaker 3: We see teens all the time that I have to
20:02
Speaker 3: wear these because everyone's wearing them. I have to get
20:04
Speaker 3: these clothes, I have to do these things. And maybe
20:08
Speaker 3: it's more, maybe it's more pervasive than it was even
20:10
Speaker 3: when you and I were teenagers.
20:12
Speaker 1: I feel like when we were growing up, it was
20:14
Speaker 1: cool to do your own thing, Like, you know, obviously
20:16
Speaker 1: there's some cool brands and things that people wanted to do,
20:19
Speaker 1: but it was also cool to just kind of do
20:21
Speaker 1: your own thing. And it feels like, I don't know,
20:24
Speaker 1: maybe that's changing a little bit for the younger generation too.
20:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:27
Speaker 3: I think there's this like really popular tweet from like
20:30
Speaker 3: a long time ago from Tyler the creator, who is
20:32
Speaker 3: like he said something like, what do you mean you're
20:34
Speaker 3: being cyberbullied? Like just close the turn off the computer, right,
20:38
Speaker 3: And it's like, hah, that's pretty funny. Like when we
20:41
Speaker 3: were younger, it's like, yeah, I just don't log onto
20:43
Speaker 3: white Space or Facebook. But now I feel like it's
20:45
Speaker 3: so intertwined in to everybody's life that you can't really
20:49
Speaker 3: log off right, Like a lot of kids are using
20:51
Speaker 3: Snapchat to text each other, a lot of kids are
20:54
Speaker 3: communicating through Instagram and whatever other social media TikTok, and
20:59
Speaker 3: it's hard to sh that off because then you feel
21:01
Speaker 3: like you're not connected to everybody else.
21:03
Speaker 1: Plus, you know, I didn't really necessarily read about but
21:06
Speaker 1: one of my potential hypotheses for a lot of this
21:09
Speaker 1: stuff is that in the past, people used to have downtime.
21:12
Speaker 1: You know, people used to have time where they did nothing,
21:15
Speaker 1: or they read a book, they did something that was calming.
21:18
Speaker 1: But too much dopamine and too much activation from social
21:22
Speaker 1: media from all this stuff really ramps up your nervous
21:25
Speaker 1: system as well. So in the past, you know, if
21:27
Speaker 1: you sat on a bus, you sat there doing nothing,
21:29
Speaker 1: you calm down, you wound down. But now you're constantly
21:33
Speaker 1: doing something and most of us are on our phone
21:36
Speaker 1: for four to five hours of day, which ramps you
21:38
Speaker 1: up even more and could be potentially making our nervous
21:42
Speaker 1: systems more reactive. So I don't have any data or
21:45
Speaker 1: evidence or studies to back that up, but just kind
21:48
Speaker 1: of throwing out more different theories as to what's going on?
21:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, now, people on the toilet watching TikTok and.
21:55
Speaker 2: Videos and whatever.
21:56
Speaker 3: Back in the day, we're reading the back of the
21:59
Speaker 3: shampoo bottle.
22:00
Speaker 1: Whatever you had to do, you know.
22:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I guess we joke about it.
22:07
Speaker 3: But the more we say these things, I feel like,
22:09
Speaker 3: the more it makes me feel like, can we really
22:12
Speaker 3: put the blame on kids? No, they're doing the best
22:15
Speaker 3: they can with what they got. Yeah.
22:18
Speaker 1: If anything, we should be, you know, blaming the adults,
22:21
Speaker 1: the people who raise them, maybe the tech companies for
22:24
Speaker 1: giving almost every young person in this country in addiction.
22:27
Speaker 2: I know you're on that one. I'm with you, Yeah,
22:30
Speaker 2: I know.
22:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
22:33
Speaker 1: So what do we do about this? What are some
22:34
Speaker 1: treatments for social anxiety? So, as with most types of anxiety,
22:39
Speaker 1: it's typically recommended to start with therapy. That's always a
22:42
Speaker 1: good place to start with a lot of these things.
22:44
Speaker 1: Medication can also be somewhat helpful. But I was just
22:47
Speaker 1: at the big ACAP conference American Academy Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists,
22:53
Speaker 1: and actually one of the teaching points was that social
22:57
Speaker 1: anxiety is the type of anxiety that's least likely to
23:00
Speaker 1: respond to medicine. So that's where I mean, it can
23:04
Speaker 1: help a little bit, but therapy and learning how to
23:06
Speaker 1: deal with, cope with, manage the social anxiety is really
23:09
Speaker 1: going to be where you get the most bang for
23:11
Speaker 1: your back.
23:12
Speaker 3: I think a lot of kids kind of just have
23:14
Speaker 3: to have that experience of like, Okay, I'm not gonna
23:17
Speaker 3: die or it's not going to be the worst thing ever,
23:20
Speaker 3: it's gonna be okay. How many times I have a
23:22
Speaker 3: kid in my office who has a really hard time
23:25
Speaker 3: talking to a teacher and then I tell them like, okay,
23:28
Speaker 3: well let me email them first, or let's go talk
23:30
Speaker 3: to them together, and then it ends up fine and
23:33
Speaker 3: they're like, okay, yeah, I can talk to it.
23:34
Speaker 2: Right.
23:35
Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense to me. In terms
23:46
Speaker 3: of therapy.
23:46
Speaker 2: What do we have.
23:47
Speaker 3: We have exposure therapy, just jump right in. We do
23:52
Speaker 3: see a lot of young people who are letting their
23:54
Speaker 3: anxiety run their lives. Unfortunately, they're doing the best they can,
23:57
Speaker 3: but this is just kind of how it ends up.
23:58
Speaker 3: They feel anxious about being around people, so they use
24:02
Speaker 3: that as an excuse to get out of school or
24:04
Speaker 3: do homeschooling. I've seen this a lot over the last years.
24:08
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting that you mentioned this. Chronic absenteeism
24:11
Speaker 3: is on the rise after COVID. That's been one of
24:14
Speaker 3: our school goals over the last couple of years to
24:16
Speaker 3: raise school attendance. I will say our school attendance is
24:21
Speaker 3: actually probably higher than the national average. Do we really
24:24
Speaker 3: need to focus on that, That's a question for someone else.
24:27
Speaker 3: But chronic absenteeism is a big thing. There's a lot
24:30
Speaker 3: of articles on it. There's a lot of schools that
24:33
Speaker 3: kids are just not going to class. I have some
24:36
Speaker 3: theories on this. We don't have to talk about it,
24:38
Speaker 3: but I'll ramble for a little bit. This is my thought.
24:42
Speaker 3: I think because of COVID, we got used to a
24:45
Speaker 3: lot of things used to and we had to. It
24:48
Speaker 3: was out of necessity. Things needed to be available online.
24:52
Speaker 3: Classwork needed to be available online, lectures needed to be
24:54
Speaker 3: available online. That didn't stop, and because that didn't stop,
24:59
Speaker 3: a lot of kids started to see, oh I'm a junior,
25:02
Speaker 3: I'm a senior. I drive to school. I don't really
25:06
Speaker 3: need to be here if I have internet at the
25:07
Speaker 3: house and I could just log on and get my
25:09
Speaker 3: stuff done. So I think that's part of it. I
25:12
Speaker 3: definitely think that the anxiety. I think the stressor of school.
25:15
Speaker 3: I think all that combined is part of it. But
25:18
Speaker 3: I think a big part of it is that we
25:19
Speaker 3: did get stuck a little bit with the access to
25:22
Speaker 3: stuff online, and because so many things are online, kids
25:25
Speaker 3: really kids. I think kids are starting to see what
25:27
Speaker 3: is the point of quoting to school. So that's my
25:31
Speaker 3: two cents on it. I think other people have different opinions,
25:34
Speaker 3: but that's what I got.
25:36
Speaker 1: I think that makes sense that even happened in my
25:37
Speaker 1: med school class. Yeah, Like these people were training to
25:40
Speaker 1: be doctors, they were in their early twenties, but everything
25:43
Speaker 1: was online. And there were people that I didn't see
25:45
Speaker 1: the entire med school experience because they just didn't go
25:49
Speaker 1: to anything. They're like, I can do this online, I'm
25:50
Speaker 1: not coming in person.
25:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm the.
25:53
Speaker 1: Kind of person who needs to learn in person and
25:56
Speaker 1: learn from a teacher. So I came anyway.
25:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I am a dude.
26:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, lots of kids are refusing to go back to school.
26:08
Speaker 1: I've got so many patients and families and they're just
26:11
Speaker 1: trying to navigate this. The kids are anxious, it's not
26:14
Speaker 1: going well. They're not getting the help that they need,
26:17
Speaker 1: and a lot of parents pull their kids out of school,
26:19
Speaker 1: homeschool them, do different options that they have, and I always, always,
26:25
Speaker 1: always recommend, and every case is different, and there could
26:28
Speaker 1: be some cases where it's like, Okay, it's okay to
26:29
Speaker 1: be homeschooled, let things calm down. But most of the time,
26:32
Speaker 1: I say, try and keep them in school. If you
26:35
Speaker 1: take them out, then it's going to make things worse
26:38
Speaker 1: over time. They're never going to learn how to deal. Yeah,
26:41
Speaker 1: it's just the start. It's going to get worse and
26:42
Speaker 1: worse and worse. So as much as you can, if
26:45
Speaker 1: you've got social anxiety, if it's getting into school, get
26:48
Speaker 1: help for it, like talk to people, go to therapy,
26:51
Speaker 1: talk to the counselors at school. But try and stay
26:54
Speaker 1: in school because kids, it's cool to stay in school.
27:00
Speaker 2: That was bad. No, no, no, I like it. I mentioned
27:05
Speaker 2: this on this show. I'm pretty sure I don't even
27:07
Speaker 2: remember what show it was.
27:08
Speaker 3: It was about tying your shoes, you do the loop loop.
27:16
Speaker 1: Beca there was a SpongeBob song.
27:22
Speaker 2: Either way, I think we've.
27:24
Speaker 3: Talked about when it comes to anxiety, the exposure part
27:27
Speaker 3: is super important. I think that's that's really what's going
27:29
Speaker 3: to help a lot with with getting better and understanding that.
27:33
Speaker 2: It's because like when when.
27:34
Speaker 3: Kids are experiencing anxiety, they're basically perceiving that there's a
27:38
Speaker 3: dangerous situation in the absence of like the dangerous situation,
27:43
Speaker 3: so they're like on edge, like something bad is about
27:45
Speaker 3: to happen. They feel that they understand that in their brain,
27:49
Speaker 3: but they aren't able to like make that connection that well,
27:52
Speaker 3: nothing bad is going to happen until you can experience it, right.
27:56
Speaker 3: So when it comes to exposure, we have a couple
27:59
Speaker 3: types we have to The first one is systematic desensitization.
28:05
Speaker 3: I knew I was going to trip over that, which
28:07
Speaker 3: is basically slowly increasing exposure to the thing that makes
28:11
Speaker 3: you anxious. So, for example, fear of snakes, maybe starting
28:15
Speaker 3: with showing a picture of a snake, then moving to
28:18
Speaker 3: a rubber snake, then eventually getting up to a real snake,
28:21
Speaker 3: and knowing that you know, we're building up to this
28:24
Speaker 3: point of like, okay, I've made it. The snake did
28:27
Speaker 3: not kill me. We're okay.
28:29
Speaker 1: And then there's flooding, which is like exposure therapy that's
28:33
Speaker 1: really fast. You just dive right in and flood your
28:36
Speaker 1: senses with what makes you anxious, Like, for example, you
28:39
Speaker 1: got a fear of snakes, and then you jump straight
28:42
Speaker 1: into being on an episode of fear Factor. We have
28:44
Speaker 1: to sit in a tub of live snakes.
28:46
Speaker 3: Right right after you like a deer testicle and a
28:50
Speaker 3: one hundred year old eggnog.
28:53
Speaker 2: These are the episodes I remember. I don't know why.
28:55
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, dude, fear Factor was disgusting.
29:00
Speaker 3: Well.
29:00
Speaker 1: The example I always give to my patients about exposure
29:04
Speaker 1: therapy is I actually used to be kind of afraid
29:06
Speaker 1: of talking on the phone. Made me really anxious, didn't
29:09
Speaker 1: like it, And a lot of people tell me that
29:10
Speaker 1: they don't like talking on the phone until I had
29:12
Speaker 1: to do it for work, and I pushed myself to
29:16
Speaker 1: do it, and then before I knew it, it was second nature.
29:18
Speaker 1: Now talking on the phone doesn't bother me at all.
29:20
Speaker 1: But like I had to do it, I had to
29:22
Speaker 1: do it enough to the point where it slowly desensitized
29:25
Speaker 1: that reaction and it doesn't make me anxious anymore.
29:28
Speaker 3: Yeah.
29:28
Speaker 2: True.
29:29
Speaker 3: What else do we have in the therapy world.
29:31
Speaker 1: We got applied relaxation, so teaching people how to use
29:36
Speaker 1: different relaxation techniques like progressive muscle relaxation in those anxiety
29:42
Speaker 1: provoking social situations, so your body and mind does stay
29:45
Speaker 1: more calm. It's a coping mechanism to deal and learn
29:49
Speaker 1: how to deal with that anxiety.
29:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, we got social skills training and so pretty much
29:54
Speaker 3: teaching like basic communication social skills. So if we have
29:58
Speaker 3: a plan and a strategy for engaging in conversation, we
30:01
Speaker 3: feel less awkward about it. Let me tell you that
30:03
Speaker 3: second book that I mentioned does have homework assignments and
30:06
Speaker 3: things like how to continue a conversation, how to ask
30:09
Speaker 3: open ended questions, that kind of thing to help train
30:12
Speaker 3: the students potentially in a group set, in an individual set,
30:15
Speaker 3: and how to do these things things like eye contact,
30:18
Speaker 3: attentive posture, how to start a conversation giving positive feedback.
30:22
Speaker 3: They're all part of this training and really can help
30:24
Speaker 3: make social situations a lot easier.
30:27
Speaker 1: And even some mindfulness training helping people be mindful of
30:30
Speaker 1: their social anxiety so that they know how to identify it,
30:34
Speaker 1: potentially even externalize it, put it outside of their body
30:37
Speaker 1: so they don't feel like it's inside of them all
30:39
Speaker 1: the time. Seeologically, and then have some of those coping
30:42
Speaker 1: mechanisms to help reduce the anxiety once we have spotted.
30:46
Speaker 3: It, and then exercise. If you can exercise in a group,
30:48
Speaker 3: it's a great way to connect, to make friends, be healthy,
30:51
Speaker 3: learn social skills, feel connected to the community, all things
30:55
Speaker 3: that can kind of help you get that practice and
30:58
Speaker 3: see that the concerns that you having, you know rightfully
31:01
Speaker 3: so because that's the way your brain is working, that
31:04
Speaker 3: you can work past those things, you know.
31:05
Speaker 1: I was just thinking, exercising in a group can be
31:08
Speaker 1: really good unless you're like really gassy. And then but
31:12
Speaker 1: I did a yoga class with my mom a while
31:16
Speaker 1: back where the yoga instructor literally like halfway through is like,
31:19
Speaker 1: if you've got it, just let it out. Just no
31:23
Speaker 1: judgment here, like be comfortable, be with everyone, just let
31:28
Speaker 1: it go. And I was like, you know what, I
31:30
Speaker 1: love that.
31:31
Speaker 2: Did you do it? I did not at the moment.
31:34
Speaker 1: Surprisingly, I didn't have one in the chamber, but that.
31:37
Speaker 2: Would have been loaded.
31:42
Speaker 1: Some celebrities with social anxiety. To wrap up the episode,
31:47
Speaker 1: the big one that I found was Eddie didn't know
31:50
Speaker 1: who Naomi Osaka is.
31:52
Speaker 2: Of course, yeah.
31:54
Speaker 1: The tennis player. She was actually, like most athletes forced
31:58
Speaker 1: to do a lot of press comp diferences as on
32:01
Speaker 1: the pro circuit. In twenty twenty one, during the French Open,
32:04
Speaker 1: she declined to participate in the press conferences, which did
32:07
Speaker 1: not make the brass of the Tennis Federation very happy.
32:12
Speaker 1: The tournament officials even threatened with her with fines and
32:15
Speaker 1: threatened to kick her off of the or out of
32:17
Speaker 1: the French Open. So she just dropped out. She's like, deuces,
32:20
Speaker 1: not doing this. Yeah, good for her, Like, you know,
32:24
Speaker 1: I'm not doing this. She's a self described introvert and
32:27
Speaker 1: says that she often hides in her headphones to try
32:30
Speaker 1: and dull that anxiety, be in her own world, trying
32:32
Speaker 1: to tune out the rest of the world. And so
32:34
Speaker 1: she's learning how to.
32:35
Speaker 2: Deal with it.
32:36
Speaker 1: And yeah, she's pretty cool. I like her a lot.
32:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
32:38
Speaker 1: The next one, Eddie know who Barber streisand is No,
32:45
Speaker 1: she is an old white lady who is very She
32:49
Speaker 1: actually I think had more number one hits than like anyone,
32:55
Speaker 1: or like more Grammys for number one hits or something
32:57
Speaker 1: until like Beyonce broke her record or something like that.
32:59
Speaker 1: So I didn't realize she was such a prolific singer
33:03
Speaker 1: back in the day. But she we want to bring
33:07
Speaker 1: up this example because it doesn't actually sound a ton
33:10
Speaker 1: like social anxiety. It sounds more like performance anxiety to me.
33:13
Speaker 1: But it kind of shows how we don't quite know
33:16
Speaker 1: the difference societally between the two. But she gets really
33:20
Speaker 1: bad stage fright, and apparently when she was doing a
33:23
Speaker 1: concert in Central Park in nineteen sixty seven, she forgot
33:26
Speaker 1: the words to her own song. And as a songwriter myself,
33:30
Speaker 1: that's the worst feeling in the world. And you're like singing,
33:32
Speaker 1: You're like.
33:33
Speaker 2: Oh crap, what did I put for this?
33:35
Speaker 1: And she was so terrified that it would happen again
33:37
Speaker 1: that she didn't actually perform in public for thirty years.
33:41
Speaker 2: Wow. Wild right.
33:44
Speaker 1: So she actually started using medicine to help her not
33:46
Speaker 1: feel so anxious when performing, And there's a quote from
33:49
Speaker 1: her that says, one reason I can perform now is
33:51
Speaker 1: that they have pills for stage fright. I wish someone
33:53
Speaker 1: would have told me about these pills years ago. The
33:56
Speaker 1: most common one we use these days is called Propranolol.
34:00
Speaker 1: Works great, yea. It prevents that fight or flight response,
34:03
Speaker 1: prevents your heart from racing, keeps you calm, keeps you cool,
34:06
Speaker 1: and can really help people who are struggling with social
34:09
Speaker 1: anxiety and stage fright.
34:10
Speaker 3: The one that I have, I think is I feel
34:12
Speaker 3: like I've seen it in the past. I think Marshawn
34:15
Speaker 3: Lynch is someone who struggled with social anxiety. If you remember,
34:20
Speaker 3: I think there was a discussion years ago when he
34:23
Speaker 3: was basically refusing to talk to the media and then
34:26
Speaker 3: he kind of got in trouble and then he came
34:28
Speaker 3: out and he had that famous interview where he just
34:31
Speaker 3: kept fancying with I'm just here so I won't get fined.
34:35
Speaker 3: I think I think it's either speculation or it's true
34:40
Speaker 3: that he might actually be struggling. He might have struggled
34:43
Speaker 3: before with social anxiety.
34:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just kind of looked it up a little
34:48
Speaker 1: bit and from Barstool Sports, who I trust wholeheartedly, he
34:56
Speaker 1: overcame his paralyzing social anxiety to appear on the Conan Show.
35:00
Speaker 1: So yeah, it kind of gives a couple of Yeah,
35:01
Speaker 1: it sounds like he did have some really bad social anxiety.
35:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
35:06
Speaker 1: I was just in Vancouver doing some skiing at Whistler
35:10
Speaker 1: and I saw something that I haven't seen in a
35:13
Speaker 1: long time. But when I used to live in Seattle,
35:16
Speaker 1: Marshaw Lynch used to do those commercials for the heating
35:19
Speaker 1: and plumbing business Beacon. I love those commercials. So he's
35:24
Speaker 1: like quick freaking can't Bacon.
35:30
Speaker 2: So it was nice to see that again.
35:32
Speaker 3: He's a national treasure.
35:33
Speaker 1: Man, he is. And if you guys don't know, we
35:36
Speaker 1: say take carry all mentals. That was Marshaw Lynch. Yeah,
35:40
Speaker 1: it was when he was retiring. In his speech of like,
35:43
Speaker 1: he was telling everyone to, you know, take care of
35:45
Speaker 1: their mental health, which I mean, how many how many
35:47
Speaker 1: times do you hear pro athletes at the end of
35:50
Speaker 1: their career. They want the last positive thing to say.
35:52
Speaker 1: They talk about getting health for your mental health. Like,
35:55
Speaker 1: we love Marshawn. He's a good dude.
35:57
Speaker 3: He's been. I saw a video with him recently.
36:00
Speaker 2: I think he was.
36:02
Speaker 3: He was he was doing like a podcast or an
36:04
Speaker 3: interview with one of his own teammates. I feel bad,
36:06
Speaker 3: And I remember when his teammate's name was. I think
36:08
Speaker 3: his last name was Robinson. But basically had Marshawn had
36:12
Speaker 3: at one point brought in to like the locker room.
36:15
Speaker 3: He brought in a jeweler, and he brought in a
36:17
Speaker 3: financial advisor, and he basically was like, I'm paying for
36:20
Speaker 3: them to be here. You guys go talk to whoever
36:22
Speaker 3: you want to. And most of the people went to
36:25
Speaker 3: the jeweler right trying to buy like all these things,
36:27
Speaker 3: spend a bunch of money, and he's like, all right,
36:29
Speaker 3: you're allowed to buy from them or whatever, but whatever
36:31
Speaker 3: amount of money you're about to put into the jeweler,
36:33
Speaker 3: I need you to put the same with the financial advisor,
36:36
Speaker 3: like put it into like an investment or something.
36:38
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, And.
36:39
Speaker 3: A lot of them were like, I don't know, I
36:41
Speaker 3: don't know, and so yeah, I think Marshawan is seems
36:45
Speaker 3: like he's always kind of been that low, low key,
36:48
Speaker 3: behind the scenes, like bigger picture guy, like he seems
36:52
Speaker 3: to get it in terms of, yeah, fame and fortune
36:57
Speaker 3: and taking care of He's definitely a community guy. There's
36:59
Speaker 3: so many clips of him talking about, like you know,
37:02
Speaker 3: giving out turkeys back in Seattle and Oakland, just being
37:06
Speaker 3: a great community member. That's that seems to be Marshawan.
37:11
Speaker 1: And just one of the most vicious running backs ever.
37:15
Speaker 1: He was such a beast, hence his nickname. It's cool
37:20
Speaker 1: to see that he's he's such a real person and
37:23
Speaker 1: he's such an EmPATH. He cares about people and he
37:26
Speaker 1: actually does things to help other people in a genuine
37:29
Speaker 1: and true way. So yeah, that's that's one of our
37:34
Speaker 1: goals for the shows to get marsha On one's start.
37:39
Speaker 1: If any of you listeners out there know marsha On,
37:41
Speaker 1: you get him any big take home points, Eddie.
37:51
Speaker 3: I think it's something that's just not going to go
37:54
Speaker 3: away overnight. So I think if we can maybe for
37:57
Speaker 3: the adults or people in our life that maybe don't
38:01
Speaker 3: understand it as much or kind of shit on it
38:05
Speaker 3: a little bit, trying to help normalize it, understand that
38:07
Speaker 3: it's something that the younger generations are going through right
38:10
Speaker 3: now and trying to work through, and to be to
38:13
Speaker 3: have some empathy for them, I think could really go
38:16
Speaker 3: a long way.
38:16
Speaker 1: What do you got, don't run from the anxiety. And
38:20
Speaker 1: this is just kind of a good rule in life too.
38:23
Speaker 1: There are going to be a lot of things that
38:24
Speaker 1: make you feel anxious, that make you feel nervous, and
38:27
Speaker 1: that's normal. It's okay obviously if it's getting in the
38:31
Speaker 1: way of your life, try and seek help for it,
38:33
Speaker 1: but don't be afraid to expose yourself to the things
38:36
Speaker 1: that make you anxious, because over time they'll get better
38:39
Speaker 1: and better, and you won't. You won't have your life
38:43
Speaker 1: run by your anxiety. That's kind of my like, don't
38:46
Speaker 1: let your anxiety run your life. Take control back from
38:49
Speaker 1: the anxiety and learn how to expose yourself to the
38:51
Speaker 1: things that make you feel nervous.
38:53
Speaker 3: Cool.
38:54
Speaker 2: Love it. This one was fun. I like it. Yeah.
38:57
Speaker 1: Thanks for reading all the books and everything.
39:00
Speaker 2: You're so studious. Shit, you're a.
39:04
Speaker 3: Good little reader.
39:04
Speaker 2: Ready. Thanks On that note, thank you all for listening.
39:10
Speaker 3: Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever else you get your podcasts, you
39:13
Speaker 3: can find us. Leave us a five star view, Go
39:15
Speaker 3: ahead and follow, like, share, subscribe, whatever button there is,
39:18
Speaker 3: feel free to press it, leave us a comment. We'd
39:20
Speaker 3: love to respond, and we'd just love to see it
39:22
Speaker 3: on social media at Millennium MHC in our website www
39:26
Speaker 3: dot Millennium MC dot com. Thank you all for listening,
39:29
Speaker 3: and shout out to Marshawn. Remember to take care of
39:32
Speaker 3: y'all mentors.
39:33
Speaker 2: Go Broncos.