Latest / Performance Explored Project / Exploring Combatives with UFC Fighter Cole Miller

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Exploring Combatives with UFC Fighter Cole Miller · Performance Explored Project

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: On today's episode of the Performance Explorer Project, I have 20-time UFC vet Cole Miller.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: He takes me through combative concepts of striking, grappling, clinchwork, groundwork, but also how he coaches and bridges all of this as a fighter to now being a coach.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about leadership, we talk about mindset, and we talk about being an ultimate victor and how you get your hand raised at the end of a match.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you guys enjoyed this episode.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we were talking about leadership, and you said it's about picking a word, and yours was emboldened.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to mess this up, but you said the best leaders in my life didn't demand of me or motivate me.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: They got me to demand more of myself.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think as a coach, other than education, my job is to try to pass that along to others.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Where does that come from?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I read the book Leadership in the Shadows by Kyle Lamb, and I got to that chapter, and it basically said that you there's no wrong leadership word.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And your word is your word.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was reading that book, it got me to think about okay, what do I value as in a leader?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just like you were just saying, we we were talking, and I I said, you know what?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: They all got me to demand more of me.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a little bit different than a coach demand demanding more of you.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you can instill in someone else to demand more of them, it really comes down to what self-discipline.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's really what we're talking about.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I think most people believe that you have that type of discipline or you don't, and it can't be given or inspired.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's completely false.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: There are people who have uh a natural tendency toward that, having that type of self-discipline.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if someone is short on something, they can always be coached to have more of that something, if that makes sense.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I noticed that every trainer that I respected, uh, teacher that I respected, parent that I respected, um, that the one thing that they all, the the the thing that I noticed anyway is the one thing that they all had in common was that they all emboldened me or they got me to demand more of me.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: If I think about your career, I think you've kind of embodied that that self-discipline.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from professional fighter, 20-time UFC veteran, third-degree Brazilian jujitsu black belt, and now MMA school owner, combatants instructor, you've kind of walked this whole progression all the way through.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: That discipline that you had instilled in you, did that come naturally?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have a coach that pulled that out of you?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: What where did you where did that come from?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I had a brother.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of like where it started.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you I grew up in a fun time.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: We we, you know, I'm I'm 41, so I grew up in like the the early 90s was like the formative years of, you know, we had Ninja Turtles and the Power Rangers, and yeah, Jean-Claude Van Damme movies, Steven Segal movies.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's like Desert Storm Trading Cards and like Army men and everything was about fighting.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Watching uh it used to be called WWF, now it's WWE.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And everything in my life that I was attracted to involved some type of fighting.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a little brother, so who do you think we tried stuff on?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when you have that someone like that who's like pretty much a peer and you're gonna be competitive with that person all the time, you're always trying to do what?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: One up one another.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I had had a little brother, and that's what got me to a certain point.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I played um a little bit of hockey and I played a lot of bit of baseball.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know anything about baseball, it requires a lot of discipline.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And there's certain attributes that you can have in baseball, and not everybody's the same.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that stood out for me was uh vision, like hand-eye coordination and things like that.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was one of the slower people on the team, but I could start moving when the ball was coming out of the pitcher's hand.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: I could tell by the stance and how the batter had swung before and the kind of pitch that was coming from my pitcher that if it was going to get hit, it was going a certain direction, I'd already be taken off that direction.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's the attribute you have, it requires a lot of what paying attention.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I watched a lot.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so kind of like, and I had coaches that inspired me.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I had uh parents that believed in me.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that that's also very important.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like if somebody's gonna be emboldened by other individuals, you have to have people that believe in you too, for them to be able to instill that type of discipline or self-discipline in you.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: When you say the detail thing, I I'm I mean, as a coach, I reference that all the time.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not the best demonstrator of exercises, I'm not the fastest coach, the strongest coach, but I will pick up all the breadcrumbs that everyone steps over.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like those details, I obsess about those.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think that bridged the details of fighting?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously the longevity of your career.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: What is the longevity of a UFC fighter?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: I believe it's about seven months.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: So is the average UFC fighter's career?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And how many fights do you think you would have within that seven months?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: One to two.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you get to 20?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you just keep sticking around.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like that's kind of how it is.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I didn't have one of those, you know, amazing careers where it's like I was, you know, 1901 or something crazy like that in the UFC.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, when to drop one, when to drop one.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: When it's like that kind of thing over and over again.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, those losses, they're gonna teach you a lesson, right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: For the most part.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna give you an important lesson.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you can either say, nah, man, those judges had it wrong, or yeah, but my shoulder was hurting me, something like that.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can make an excuse, or you can look at the footage, your coaches can look at the footage with you.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: We can go, no, you have a weakness, and we need to work on this.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get to work and you get to work, and then you come back your next fight after kind of repairing that a little bit, and then you get the W and you just kind of keep that cycle going.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: How do you convince yourself to stay on that?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, you said mentioned being a professional fighter with American top team, like that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I would imagine there's a lot of people that are in that pipeline, just like dreaming, like hoping you get to that point, wishing you get to that point, and you talk about self-discipline.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you have to be because even though you may have coaches or training partners, like that's all on you.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like to take care of your body, to take care of your mind.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you stay in the fight for that long, no pun intended, so that when that opportunity does present itself, you're prepared and and you're you're willing, like you're capable of performing.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that the fact that I was at American Top Team and the other uh men that I was surrounded by, uh, you know, you put them, you know, a little bit on a on a pedestal, or you got like your your mount rush more of guys that you look at like, oh no, like uh he wouldn't be a bitch or whatever, he wouldn't back down like that.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you see these guys, they come uh in training day after day.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, they're gonna have family problems too, or they're gonna have, you know, uh injuries and things like that too, or they're gonna have moments where they're down in life too.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: You don't see that in the gym.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: So um maybe I wasn't always perfect, but I had uh we can just call them role models.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had guys that I could look up to, whether they were a coach or whether they were uh an active athlete at the time.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that was just kind of like the team aspect or the team element.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if they were they were gonna hold the line, I had to hold the line too.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the benefit of coming from a larger team like that.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: You have a certain uh standard.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just of the the great ones.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what's gonna be expected of the whole team.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where you see like the leadership from the top down from those uh individuals that are special.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Then you're gonna have people that maybe come in uh not special.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: When I say not special, I mean not world champion, not you know, someone who's gonna be in the hall of fame.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: But like you have those people, and it's oh no, you're expected to hold that too, because that's what being a professional is.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Does that, is it just known?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because I look at that almost like um a concept of culture.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's hard to identify, but when I see it, I know it.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I walk into a room or a team and I feel that palpable energy, I'm like, oh, that's this is the culture of the team.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I and I can't describe it, I can't coach you through it.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something that when you walked in, you just you're like, oh, I'm in the presence of these people I want to be like and you just adapted?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it something you guys talked about and or is it just came natural?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: In the beginning, it was you just walked in and you knew that there's a certain line and you're gonna hold that line.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because you you walk in as like a new guy and you see these guys that you watch fighting on TV all the time, and you see these world-class coaches, and people laugh, of course.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you can still have a good time.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like everybody's just in there serious and they're they're trying to not get killed in practice every day, although although it did happen like that sometimes.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um you you see just a level of serious, like, no, this is for us to make a living.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and this this game, this fight game, like these punches can hurt you, hurt you for real, short term and long term.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when you go in, you have to have a certain level of seriousness or professionalism about you.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh not that I came from a bad team or anything like that.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: We came, I came from a small team when I first started in uh Macon, Georgia.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So when you go from a team where maybe I was like the bigger fish in the smaller pond, and I knew that I didn't know exactly what I wanted, I just knew that I wanted to uh find out more about myself and I wanted to push myself to a new level, but you don't know what that level is unless you can see it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: You understand?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: You can see it on TV, but you don't really know what that means when it comes to the training.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I first stepped foot in that gym at ATT, you knew, oh, this is a different level.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I just knew, like, oh, this is this is where I want to be.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have to figure out how to stay here.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember what that was like when you were like, this is a reality?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I am close to this, like uh this isn't just something I'm recreational doing or an interest or I enjoy fighting, where you're like, no, I am close enough on the fringe of this to make this a career.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can make money, like I can be a a professional.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you remember that moment?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it comes to like was there a certain fight, a certain exchange, a conversation where you're like, oh no, this is a reality.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm close.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I I had been at American Top Team, I think maybe about a year, maybe, maybe just under.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh one of the the individuals on a on a card that was happening in Japan on this organization called Shuto, and it was uh the organization more for like the smaller guys.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was a featherweight at the time.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um someone had pulled out against the world champion, uh Lion Takeshi, in a way at the time.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they called ATT for somebody to step up on short notice.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that I was the second person they mentioned because the first person that they had mentioned was too good, even on eight days' notice.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Fair, you know, and uh they they saw like, oh, this guy's just a blue belt in Brazilian jujitsu.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I had been submitting black belts and stuff like that because I had a good education from the team that I was at, and I had a certain level of uh skill when I came to the team.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And my record was like eight and one or something like that.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that they were like, oh, this is the perfect guy.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: He comes from American top team, but he's not a Brazilian or Brazilian jujitsu black belt, uh, not a high risk of submitting our uh Japanese ball.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Which thought you were gonna be a win.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and an easy win.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, something that, especially with eight days' notice, would be like somebody that, okay, we'll walk through, make the champ look like a highlight.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I it went the distance, and I still think I won two of the three rounds, but with almost no trainers, had to uh expedite the process to get a passport.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've never I'd never, you know, traveled outside of the country, but you know, fighting the world champ, going the distance and not being offered a chance to come rematch, and I was like, oh yeah, I'm on the right track.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that that that quickness of having to do that, did that with that being your first big one that helped with stress, like if you had more time to sit in it or prepare?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or was it just like a unique moment of like, I'm ready for this?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have like you rose to the occasion, I guess, from training?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the activity level that I was fighting at was really high.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I had had 10 amateur fights, and amateur back then just meant you didn't get paid.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have any special equipment like the amateurs have now, more protection, more rules.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: It just was like, oh, you're maybe not super good, so you're not getting paid.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you're amateur.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I fought 10 fights.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even remember, it was like a year and a half.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then as a pro, I fought nine fights in, I think that was a year and a half or 10 fights in a year and a half.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: So the activity level that you're fighting that I was fighting at at the time to get to the point where I felt that I would make it was um unique, probably.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like nowadays, you hear about guys fighting two or three times a year, and I was like, nah, like I'm on this path.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know where the path was going.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have all these um high-level guys that had millions of dollars and things like that.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: There was like maybe two guys making money, you know, fighting at the high level at the time, and they were all 205 and up.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: They were not smaller guys, so I was just on a it was a personal quest.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um I'll just say, like, I've I knew I knew whenever I was on that path and I was fighting with that level of activity that when you I got that offer on that that you know uh short-term notice, I was like, oh no, this is what we do, like this is just what it is.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't I didn't care about eight-week or 12-week train camps.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Shit, I never had had one of those in my entire life, anyways.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like next fight.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was one of those people that was like like a journeyman.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: The phone call came in, oh, let's go.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to that almost destination unknown, you're just kind of like, I have a little bit of a direction, which it seems like you had.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's most people, not just fighting, but fitness as a journey.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think athletes sometimes they don't know where they're going.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they how do you trust a path without knowing where that destination is?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Kept it simple.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was easy for me to trust the process or however you want to say it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have a vision of what the the destination would be, meaning like a championship belt, or I didn't have anything like that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that because I was able to keep it simple and it was, I'm focusing on the next fight.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to find someone that can break me to show me the kind of uh person I am, to show me what my weaknesses are, so that way I can repair myself as a man and come back stronger.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, both from a technical uh skill set uh portion, but also the kind of person that maybe thought they had courage or the kind of person that thought they didn't have fear.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to face those things and find that man across the ring or the cage for me that could make me second guess even the type of conviction that I had.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when I kept it that simple, I trained with, I would say, more purpose.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, isn't it so nice to think, oh, you're gonna be a millionaire or, you know, like you're gonna have some shiny belt or cars or whatever it is, the stuff that people care about.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: But for me back then, it was just a little bit more uh primal.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And because I had a more simplistic approach to it, um what we'll call a martial arts approach versus like professional athlete who has this idea of uh limousines or whatever, you know, it's like I think that that was the way that I made the most amount of progress in the shortest duration of time.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: How old were you when when this during this time frame?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like what was that age?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was 19 to 23 years old before I made it to the UFC.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Genuinely.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: How the hell did you have a mindset, a mature mindset of that?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because that's I feel like that's a mindset most people have 20s, 30s.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you have that so young of leaning into that fear and wanting to discover it?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it sounds like you were searching for someone to show you what you were missing or prove that you were missing something.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where did that come from?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I had a brother and we because we pushed each other to the limits, we were we were always doing stuff that would not be considered safe, like some dangerous, right?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I was always obsessed with this idea of never giving up.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was always obsessed with this idea that uh like what would it take to make you quit?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you like to think about yourself as a person that won't quit.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: How romantic you'll never quit.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I wanted to actually be pushed to that limit to where I was second guessing.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wanted to find out how far I really could go to see if I had that level of conviction.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know where that came from.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was genetic, maybe it was how I grew up, maybe, you know, that maybe the environment uh added to something like that, or some people just have things, you know.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I was no stranger to danger, you know.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like again, uh my mom says that like the people in the emergency rooms knew us by our first name.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not no BS, you know, so we make quite a few trips, but me and my brother were always pushing it.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, so I don't know, you know, exactly where it came from, but I I always had it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: That that taste for it's almost like a taste for adversity.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you do you want that challenge?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Are there moments where that that adversity maybe was too much?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or it it kind of like, whoa, like this is more than what I was expecting, because it is nice how you say romantic to always come out on the good side, like, oh, I faced adversity.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: All most of the stories you hear regarding adversity are championed, right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I faced adversity, look at what happened.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Were there moments where this taste for adversity kind of bit you in the ass?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were like, whoa.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and no.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've got when someone fights, as long as I fought, you're gonna have all the stories.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And this I'll tell I'll I'll share one here.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was I was I won a cool fight.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, had like the performance of my life again, very nice.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I broke my hand in the fight.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I had a time to heal, and then I was supposed to fight Conor McGregor, and in the training camp for that fight, I uh injured my thumb, the ligaments, tendons, the bone.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had to get casted for another X amount of weeks, and then I was going to fight or I did fight Max Holloway, and but I got injured in the uh uh the training camp, but I could not back out because by the time the fight date was gonna happen, that would have been 13 months with no income.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I started the training camp, and my son was born five and a half weeks premature, so I had to leave I had to leave American top team.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I go uh back to Macon, Georgia, where he's born, and he was in the NICU for three weeks, and then as soon as he got out, uh, you know, and we got home, uh basically I was kind of like, here you go, to his mom.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to go back to train because it's like the bill's got to get paid.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was the second training session, so we're closing in close to the fight by now.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're probably like three weeks out, you know.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the fights in uh uh Denver, Colorado.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So at elevated, of course.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, add more.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've only had one training session, let's go.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the second training session, uh, I had an injury in the labrum in my hip and my groin tore.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So from the front wrapping all the way around to the the butt shake tore, I couldn't walk.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Not like, oh, he's saying he can't.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was in bed for weeks and I couldn't do hardly anything.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was it was excruciating pain.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: About a week before the fight, I think I hit pads twice.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So no grappling, no strength training, hit the pads twice and was just like, all right, let's go.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna go to this fight.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I go to Denver, do the thing, went the distance and got out unscathed and I lost the fight, you know, lost, lost the decision.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a failure, but it was also a success to know that like I my skills were able to support me.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And due to the high level of education I had, due to what my coaches instilled in me, that I was able to summon what it took to even make it through that fight to still stay standing.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a win, but it's also pretty sad when you take home half a paycheck to, you know, you know, your kid who's waiting home for you.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: When you say skill set, so I think in the strength coach world, which a a lot of people that uh probably listen to this strength conditioning professionals, um, coaches, there's just like Bravado with like fighting, where it's like just hard and it's just the stronger and faster.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Explosive too.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, fighting is explosive.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: But you've kind of beat on just talking with you, the skill set, the skill set that you have, the skill set of fighting and your skill set, improving your strength, talking about your weaknesses, and your skill set carried you in those moments where maybe your physical preparation wasn't as high as it should have been because of life got in the way.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: How does that translate to development?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So when you start out now working through your career, if you were to work with a young fighter or in your MMA school, how much are you focusing on strengths versus trying to make them a well-rounded fighter?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or where does that fit when it comes to development?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I well now, because I get I get kind of like a top-down perspective now from a coaching standpoint, if you have a an athlete or student or whatever, I think that you should take a look at what their natural attributes are.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you need to let those things bloom.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to take whatever the skills that are necessary for whatever sport that you're participating in, if it is a sport, and you need to focus on what is the most important thing, what is like the most scary type of thing that could happen for this individual, what's the most likely, and then what is gonna ultimately pay their bills?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're talking about like an MMA fighter, what pays the bills is winning fights and finishing fights.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: So what attributes do they already have?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of prior training do they already have?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: What's gonna be the most likely thing to guarantee not just a win, but an exciting win, the kind of thing that can propel them up the ladder.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you need to focus on those, spend almost all the time on those, especially in the beginning, because like wins are gonna be very important.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now that doesn't mean neglect the weaknesses.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: While you're doing that, you have to start fortifying the weaker areas and doing like a more of a slow buildup and a slow progression on those things, so long as that hole, that weakness, isn't a very easily attacked thing, if that makes sense.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like if if somebody's got like the capability to be a really good striker, but they have no takedown defense.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean zero.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, we're not gonna be spending 90% of the time on striking and very little percent on takedown defense.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a massive hole, of course we have to make that not so easily attacked, but we still want to be focusing on the thing that's gonna give them the highlight reel finish if we're talking about MMA fighter.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that transcends not just MMA, if I'm being honest with you.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like identifying strengths because if you were in a professional sports setting, whether it's football, basketball, you are already a very small percentage.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And more than likely, you didn't get there because of effort.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: You got there because you are unique, you are gifted, you are special.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And as coaches, there's this weird nuance of like, well, I want to bring up all their weaknesses.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: What got them there is their specialty.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, how can we create robustness around that?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: How can I help that?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: How can I help them do that longer?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of my thought process.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is I mean, you are an elite pass rusher, you are a explosive around the edge with your with your speed and your hips.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: How can I build your hips and feet up so that you can do that for 10 years?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is now generational money.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now you you set yourself up.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Verse, it would be very uh, I would say, myopic of me to just be like, well, that's really great, but you know, you you you're really weak in your upper body or you're really weak in your core or something, or just trying to point out problems that they have is like, well, does that is that am I really pushing the needle with this more here?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And to get back to MMA, I could be speaking out of line, but it's very nuanced.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like it's it's like teaching a baseball player how to swing a bat.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many ways to swing a bat.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, how as a coach do you come in and be like, hey, I'm gonna remove my ego here?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm not, I don't what made me what made you a good fighter, which I think a lot of people that go from professional fighting to coaching, it's like, hey, remove you because what worked for you might not work for someone 100%.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, how how do you pull that jacket off?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think a lot of athletes that get into coaching, which in in sport in my world is very common, like college football, get into college strength and conditioning, very because if they're used to it, they like it, they still get to be a part of a team.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you remove that and be like, hey, what worked for me might not work for me, but let's identify yours, you what works for you.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me it was easy because my uh game or my pursuit of fighting in uh MMA came from like a martial arts mindset, not a professional athlete mindset.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to just keep the time, I want to know how the watch works, if that makes sense.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: So because my game was built around being very technical, and of course I had a certain level of mental fortitude.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's not talk about that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, but what made me good at finishing fights is like technical proficiency.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: So now that I am being a coach or I want to work with uh a specific group of people, I'm gonna be focusing heavy on the content that I feel that they need because when I put myself into something, I'm not putting uh somebody that had a high vertical leap or somebody that had a really awesome bench press or a fast 40-yard dash.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what it's like to be that kind of person.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So when I get to work with somebody that does have like actual attributes like that, I'm like, man, this is an easy kind of job.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like because I'll just go through the Rolodex of skill set and content that I have saved to be not only in case I needed uh a valuable tool in my toolbox for when I was fighting, but also someone who is going to be uh an educator and a dispensary of information uh for what my life's passion is.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'll just go through that and be like, oh, here's you know, something that's good for you.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe I was wrong in my initial assessment.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go, it wouldn't take me long to figure that out.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then we would input something in there to kind of change that along the way.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought for me it was a little bit easier.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: But not you know this, not all phenomenal athletes are gonna make great coaches.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit of an opinion here, but I find, no offense, the best transition from athletes to coaches are the athletes that weren't the most superiorly gifted.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like they had to rely on adversity, technic, technical abilities, they had to get coached up.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they learned all the X's and O's, I guess, and then they kind of built them in versus that guy that can just you watch and be like, man, he is so explosive.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: He is so fast, and so fast, so explosive, are very hard to teach uh because that's just a gift that they've had.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have to work through that.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Was there anything along your way that now that you're trying to bridge that gap with individuals that have that, that it does it make it easier to coach?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because you just like, man, you you I'm just trying to fine-tune a Ferrari.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're so powerful.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's just like, hey, come over to my side.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is where I spent my entire career was this part.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's the easiest thing to do because it's it's like playing a video game if you're good at playing video games.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you know, it's like, oh, I I have this uh avatar or this character in the game, I push the button and they just do it.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that nice?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, so like when you get to work with like an actual high-level athlete, and and once someone makes it to a higher level, they have uh the right kind of mindset typically, not always, we all have problems, but it's when you have that type of individual, if and they trust you as an instructor or coach and you develop that kind of rapport, that relationship with that athlete or individual, then it's the easiest thing that there is to do.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you they just filter through all the BS and all the hard lessons that maybe you had to learn as an athlete.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: You just give this to them and they just run with it.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then they can take it to a different thing that you didn't even think was possible or never even thought about before.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're just honing in on that.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you're growing too.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where it becomes very much a relationship between the the coach and the athlete.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Being someone that was in that for so long, like the those 20 fights you mentioned, um, and then professional fighting before that, is there like an instant buy-in with people?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like they see you and they just go, oh, like in that world, they're like, Oh, I'm gonna listen to him, or is it still reliant on you being able to express that technical expertise of like like you just said at the beginning, like I'm trying to empower you, like don't just listen to me.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm trying to bring the best out of you.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that is that easier because of your background?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or I mean, obviously it helps.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think that when you're getting somebody from nothing, so maybe I have a student at my school and I'm the first instructor or coach they ever had, it's a little tougher.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know what else is out there.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, the the age of the individual um may play a factor in that too, as far as like maturity or being able to soak the information in.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I have found that those that maybe had some experience where they maybe did not come from a giant team, or even if they did, but they already had some level of professional experience, they'd already maybe paid some dues, they'd already maybe learned some hard lessons and uh maybe they didn't listen to someone that may have been important earlier in their career, those are usually the people that I hit it off with right away.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if I go uh back to American top team and I'm on the mat with all the high-level uh professionals and individuals, they're going to listen.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: If I have uh a guy that moved to my school, and maybe he's at coaching at my school and he wants some help on his professional training, oh, he or she is going to listen.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: But you catch, you know, uh from the aspect of me uh teaching someone for just self-defense.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of course they're listening, but like, but I like to do it like this.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, and that's that's on the small end of uh convergence.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, if if you have a younger person, you're their first coach, they might not always be the best listener, but that's part of the growth, and that's fighting the good fight for somebody doing what I'm doing.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think because I mean we we're we're close in age that it allowed you to focus more on fighting and the process and the path?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, now all the distractions, now kids are getting into it for the money.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And not saying that's the wrong reason, but they can see like, oh, this is a profession I can make money with.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: With back then, I don't think you were thinking that you you enjoyed it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so do you think that may have changed your path uh regarding like now if that was a thing, or do you feel still think you would have still had that same mindset?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: You mean from athlete to coach?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like or no, athlete, just athlete.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fighting because I almost feel like there's like this uh naivety of like, I just love fighting.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to get better at fighting.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now it's like, oh, this is my I'm a pro this is my career, I'm a professional.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do certain things and go to certain interviews, and I I can make money.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas then that doesn't seem like that was at the forefront of your thoughts.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that and there was there really wasn't any money in it at the time.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing, that transition was happening in the sport right as I was making it into the UFC where guys didn't have to have another job and things like that.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: So honestly, if it was like how it is now, I think I probably would have got burned out a lot sooner.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think that just the structure of fighting and then people need money.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: People need to be able to pay their bills.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if I had started in this current environment, and then you hit a little bit of adversity, I think that there's maybe part of me that might have thought the juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I did learn some important lessons about myself, which was what my goal was to find out how far I could take it, or some some of those hard lessons.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I would have found some of those things a little bit sooner, I probably would have switched over to something else.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have to ask, what are what are what are some of those lessons you've learned?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like who who is Cole Miller?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who did you define who who did you discover that Cole Miller was along that journey?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: I do have conviction.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is very hard to make me quit, but um I am a flawed person.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have fears.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: I do know what it's like to um get beat down and stay down in a uh not in the actual fight, but like from the point of like what life can bring you in this uh sport world that is.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do know what it's like to not say down and come right back roaring with a vengeance.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm um not the most consistent, you know, but when I have a singular focus, that's where I'm gonna make my most gains.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do very well when my uh mindset is pulled in multiple directions.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, and now that I know that about myself, I'm trying to find ways what we were talking about, like I want to, I do want to focus on my strengths, but I said we can't let our weaknesses be exposed, especially if it's a major weakness.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that like that for me can be where if like if my distractions are something that pull my brain in a couple different directions, this is a multitasking world these days.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: To have something of singular focus is very hard to achieve in in the working world, especially in the world that we're in.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, but that's where I make the most gains.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to know, okay, instead of doing three things at once, do one thing, but know when to cut that off and transition to the next thing.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how did you do that?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like still figuring it out.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Still figuring it out to be honest with you.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is is there was there a moment where you realized that maybe you were prioritizing on the wrong bucket during that process that brought that to light?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's a moment.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I've personally realized that like you get close to burnout, you know, you're you're you're it's I give it the thing of like I'm juggling balls and like I'm juggling like light balls, which is like work.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: And did I get my content done?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Did we record this in time so I can edit it?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: But then in that juggling is like my wife, my kids, my like my life, my own is and those balls are heavier, and I'm juggling the heavy balls, the light balls, and before you know it, like that heavy ball, you lose grip and it hits the ground.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, man, how do I how do I now I'm trying to pick this thing back up, which is me professionally in the past couple of years, the thing I've struggled with is like prioritizing work.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, man, I I can't forget about like my family and the things that are most important.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to like lift this ball and think, man, it would have been a lot easier if I just kept this thing in rotation a little bit more.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that come from the same spot, I think I've already hit that like that low point where I realize like when you're all in on one aspect of work, not just the work suffers, but the family suffers too.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you when you have a job of coaching individuals and you have staff and people that rely on you, if you focus on something else that's giving you um some level of, I guess I would say it's boosting you up, but you you've the other people feel like they're getting forgotten about, or maybe they actually are.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you're kind of juggling all those balls, one of them's gonna hit the ground.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think I've already had that point hit.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know exactly how to communicate what I've learned.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: I can just communicate that I've learned it and now I'm starting to learn how to balance uh a little bit more.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the same way a coach can coach an athlete, like they don't have to learn the same lessons that you learn.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm just at the point where if I begin to mentor maybe a younger individual, I'll be able to kind of pass that along before they have to learn those hard, hard lessons.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you enjoy the mentor side now?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you enjoy being able to, you know, I it's probably not the same as being in the ring and that excitement and that adrenaline, but is there a part that still gets to fulfill that bucket as a mentor, seeing the growth of people, seeing that excitement from them?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Very much so.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the transfer of the information that I give to somebody, and it doesn't matter what they're doing or why they want to use it.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm working combatives with like military servicemen or woman, if I'm coaching an uh amateur or professional fighter, or a guy who's 50 who's just doing Brazilian jujitsu um sport matches, or someone who just wants to learn martial arts for self-defense.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it doesn't matter.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: When I give that uh information to them and that transfer occurs and I see that light go bing, that not only do they get the information, but that information is directly in line for their purpose for what they're doing.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I get the most uh sense of validation and I feel really good now.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've I've had my my hands raised and I've had my head dipped down plenty of times.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need that stuff for me anymore.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: I really start to enjoy the uh problem-solving aspect of my job and being able to give that to other people so that way they can get their hand raised in their in their minds.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I used, I've used this quote.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's a people a person will never forget how you made them feel, and a person will never forget something that empowered them or inspired them.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll use the phrase a stretched mind can never return to its original size.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like once you've experienced something, once I delivered a message or coached you away, like you may forget the whole, maybe forget pieces of it, but you'll never forget that whole part.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: And once you've experienced that, you can't not forget it.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh, so I think that's a truly powerful moment as a mentor.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: I like to give people their flowers.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it seems like you are doing that to others, inspiring them, embolden them.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, was there anyone along your journey that was like a pivotal piece for you that kind of corrected your path or lit your path along the way?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, aside from my brother Micah, um I have my first coach, Cam McCarg, my Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Sensei, uh Paumpa, um Dan Lambert, uh Richie, who's the GM, American top team, my great friend and mentor Jim, my good friend Dave Dernell, Greg Thompson, um there's a lot of people that I'm leaving out.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Mike Brown, just I'm sorry, I'm leaving a ton of people out, but it's when you're surrounded and and you're fortunate enough to be surrounded by so many uh great minds, great thinkers, uh influential people, it's easy to forget a couple.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was I've been gifted with that.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I had a really good education in martial arts and not just the aspect from um the professional fight side, but that what lifelong martial artists find out from something that's uh beyond that, I've learned a lot of valuable information from those individuals.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: When people ask me that same question, it's it's almost like I have to like go back in the Rolodex.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who was at the beginning?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I forgetting?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: But one of, I mean, I have a lot of pet peefs.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need that to list them all now, but when people say like I did it myself, or or like I, you know, they take all of it.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, there's no way, there's no way you did it all yourself, even something as simple as your brother.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would you have been here if you didn't fight and wrestle with him?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like all that, all those times and like all those things, like it's you didn't get here on your own.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Your self-discipline may have like propelled you and kept you in the fight, but like you didn't you didn't do this alone.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and people think fighting, it's an individual sport.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I already remember who I forgot.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot my boy Blake, I forgot uh my best friend Bubby.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's so many people, but it people think fighting is an individual sport because it's just you that's inside that that cage.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's you, the other guy, and that third man, the referee, who's supposed to do his job and leave y'all alone, right?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's like that, that's how I perceive it.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it is much bigger than that.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: You got to have your tribe, you got to have your team, you got to have those people that do believe in you, but will check you if you're doing some dumb stuff or not thinking right.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so you got to have the people that are gonna look out after you.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: I got I got two questions on that then.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing that a team is relying on you, because I know as a coach, I can only do but so much.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Get them faster, get them more resilient, improve mobility, strength, power, all these things.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: But when it's time for them to go play, I can't do anything.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just hoping they do well and they stay healthy because then that's a maybe they have a good reflection of man, that worked, or that that was helpful, or the training was valuable.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: How does that sit with you being in that ring, knowing all those people are behind you and your success is their success?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no offense, if you do well, then that means they did well, right?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, how does does that does that give you more stress?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Does that give you motivation?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you do you even think about that?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really think about that.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I was in the cage, I was only thinking about was I going to be able to do my job and was I gonna be able to do the things that my amazing uh mentors and instructors trained me to do.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Master Cattel, there's another one that I left out, my striking coach, and Howard Davis, who's no longer here with us.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, I I was like, I want to do right back.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: By them, I want to, I want to prove that the time that they spent with me was not worthless, that I was worth investing in.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And now the way you pose the question, it makes me think that maybe, maybe I'm a little selfish sometimes because like knowing that they felt that level of um pleasure in seeing me succeed, it makes me think, do I feel that same way that they felt?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: We'll never know.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I do enjoy seeing those succeed.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: We just talked about that.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoy it, but now that I look back on it, the way that those people were in my corner, literally, but also maybe just the people that were on the match with me or giving me the life lessons and the serious talks, like, do I really um value the successes of the people that I am able to touch the way that they did with me?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be something I'm gonna think about for a while.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: It it's interesting because I've had mentors and I've always there's been a couple of them where I've been like, dude, why did you, why did you care?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like what did you see?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: What was like what did you pick up the phone?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you invite me?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you allow me to learn from you?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why did you give me access to you and your information, knowing that I'm not, I'm not like in the coaching world, I'm not paying you for that, unfortunately.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if I if I become a great coach, it's not like I'm gonna, you know, have you on my team, it's not like I'm fighting in the wing.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that to me, I feel like that is a heavy, like a heavy burden almost.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe in the moment you were young, you didn't think about that, but now as a coach, do you see that in the people that you work with?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's like, oh, I I see something.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and maybe you've even I've said to athletes I've worked with, like, you don't even see what I see.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have no idea what you're capable of.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have that with uh people that you're working with currently?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's not always who you think.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's not always an athlete.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: It could be like um somebody that you're it's they're just training for self-defense.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, no, man, like you, you could really um you can really be a protector of your family, you know what I'm saying?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: You could be like a figurehead in our community with the knowledge that they have and and just the how good of a person they are.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: And like when I see that an individual like that needs my my my space or my place, not just my information, but like that my uh academy might be like a sanctuary for that kind of person.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I see that like, oh, they need me to keep them uh some level of peace so that way they can continue to be a good uh father or a good mother, or uh that this stuff really is actively saving them from a mental health perspective.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I can see like, man, you're special.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it does make it even still more worthwhile to invest in them.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Are you able to connect those dots because you did it and you've had those feelings?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: How obviously mental health is a topic that many of us uh talk about, especially men was becoming a little bit more open in the fighting space in that fighting world.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know, I know.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And back then when you were fighting, that wasn't a conversation.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how does that now?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are do you create that space?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's honestly I I love the fact that you said creating space for those people and and providing space, a sanctuary.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things I think are mental health adjacent.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Are we therapists?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I think as dudes, we understand how we feel, we understand how other people, other guys feel, and understand like maybe I've experienced this and I see you kind of trending and I know things that have helped me.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how has that space evolved?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't know because I'm conflicted with with my approach to this.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: In the fight world, martial arts world, the the coaches, um, yeah, the coaches specifically, they become they wear too many hats.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Their father, their brother, their psychologist, they are religious advisor.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh to an athlete, you know what it is for that very special person that's going to be on your team or in your corner.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: They they wear way too many hats that no one told them that they had to wear.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: But when you care about somebody, you're willing to do whatever you can for that person.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that with the athletes, the conversations these days are changing.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think that uh men today, uh young men today, are willing to talk about some of the things that they're going through.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that they understand that if they get that out, it's actually gonna be better for them, not just in the long run, but also while they're in the training camp for the preparation or whatever.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm happy to help people.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let me say that.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: But part of me is still kind of like, don't bring that fucking shit in here.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: You need to check in and you need to do your fucking job.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if you need some help, you need to go see a psychologist after.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes that also comes from a place of caring.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, I don't have a degree in this.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you understand what I'm saying?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's outside of my soul of practice, is what I'll say.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: I can I'll I'll I'll be able to help you, hopefully, like and put a band-aid on whatever problem it is that you're having.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to see someone for real for this.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: You need to see a real priest or or pastor, you need to see a real uh sports psychologist or clinical psychologist or whatever.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you need to talk to your real dad or your real mom or your real brother.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: You need to mend that family thing.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: If I can help you in the short term, please.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that if someone's gonna be more open to uh um just seeking help, that they need to actually seek help, not just from their coach and put a band-aid on it, but do the real work and uh help himself in the long term too.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: I meant to ask this earlier.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I'm considered like the mobility guy.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's a lot of what I share.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I wear a lot of hats, but that's my niche, I guess.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I deem it as like a durability coach, a longevity coach, because most of the people I work with are at the tail end of a career or holding on for dear life.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, like you, like you.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, I just want to be able to feel good again.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and my I can't, my neck hurts, my back hurts.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do to get to be somewhat close to a lifestyle that I would be happy living?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: That you could still coach or whatnot.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: How the hell did you stay in a combative, aggressive, fighting sport for such a long period of time?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, in dog years, you're probably you should you should be a long time.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for reminding me.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: But like that is such a long, arduous career.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you do that?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: One, I didn't have that that picture, that destination.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that not having that also was a reason that I was able to stay in for so long.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: That that personal quest, that personal journey.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, I still got some fight left in me.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that kept me there, maybe even a little bit longer than I should have.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that that's why it was so easy for me to not quit and to just keep going.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, that's that's kind of who how I've defined myself as a person that that has that perseverance, which is our September word of the month at my martial arts academy.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, but I I had that kind of perseverance and that ability to just keep going.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so, because I define myself as that kind of person, you're gonna be unrelenting in in your quest.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know, and I know this next topic, little change, means a lot to you.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: How do you instill that in into your son?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like as a dad, I know you take a lot of pride in that, and I've seen the things you've shared and the stories you've told me personally, and I I love that.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: To me, being a dad, there's not a better job than that.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not perfect, mess up plenty of times.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um, how has that journey been of being able to instill all of these things you've learned throughout your life into him?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's challenging.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: My son is um he's not exactly like me, and I wouldn't change him for that, but it's taught me how to be a little bit more patient.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to get better at having more empathy.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that he naturally has it, which good on him.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I take the job very seriously.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to give him the life lessons.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to prepare him and give him the tools that he needs to be um a good brother and a good son and uh a good employee or a protector of a future family that he may have one day, right?
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to do that.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that sometimes I put a little bit too much weight on my own shoulders that that type of information maybe isn't sinking in on him uh with him only being 10 years old.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, but um sometimes I I maybe think that I'm not doing as good of a job as I should be uh doing, but I think that that's all of us as dads, also.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in I've been in therapy for quite a while, pretty intensive the past like three or four months.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something my therapist said to me.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, the second I said that, he kind of stopped me and he was like, That's all I need to know, Vernon.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like that you care as much to be like, I should be doing more.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I was doing more, or I wish I was better.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even just having that thought process of not being, I don't want to say narcissist, but like, I'm doing a great job, or I'm doing everything I can.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, I I see that I could be doing more.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: I know where I'm missing.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I might feel it in the moment and I'm like, damn it, I did it again, or damn it.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but it's like I notice it now, and that's growth.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that many of us, we can see our failures all the time, but we maybe don't always see our successes.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm trying to get better at that too.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I I can say that honestly, in the past maybe like two years, I've started to see where those successes are actually happening, and I can see when they happen the same way I would say like when you communicate to whether it be an athlete or student or law enforcement officer or military serviceman or woman, it's like when they when they have the aha that not just the the move translated, but they can can connect that to their purpose.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: I can see when he's engaged with me and that kind of aha thing happens for what is important to him.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm like starting to kind of like try to celebrate those little wins and hang on to those and not just see like how bad I have to catch up or how we got to get him up to speed, like for what I perceive the end product should look like, you know.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: It I don't want to speak out of term, but it sounds like a lot of internal reflection, like a lot of growth as a person, which I think is natural progression with our age, or we're very similar age.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it was like losing, not maybe losing who I was, but like forgetting who I was, getting caught up in the work, in the grind, in the growth of chasing of, like you said, I didn't really have a destined path.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like that finish line just gets moved a little bit more, and all I'm thinking about is that.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not looking off to the sides, I'm looking at that, going forward, going forward, going forward.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it was a coach that asked me, Who is Vernon?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Good mentor of mine, George Carl.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a pivotal moment for me.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna pose that question to you who is Cole Miller.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: I would say uh maybe to a fault, he is who he's always been, in that he is someone who's going to uh uh persevere.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: He is going to be loyal to his brothers, he is going to be unrelenting in the uh pursuit of information with regard to the science of violence, and he's gonna try to keep it together and won't quit.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and you think you have you been able to maintain that like throughout this entire time?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Have you been tested?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have and I have fumbled and I have failed and I have picked myself up again, and I will continue to do it and hopefully not uh relive the same mistakes um and start to kind of dial in a little bit more.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: As a person that is so you know, here we talk about transferring knowledge, and I've seen you coach, I've seen you talk about coaching, and I've seen you talk about fighting.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's like when you see someone that can do both, to me, it's like the it's like the the ultimate.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know people that are really good at sports are really good, and then they have to give instruction, it's like a lost art.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like they don't know how to communicate.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know how to communicate their specialty.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: For you, this process of bridging these these two worlds, I feel is giving you like almost like a sense of like when you came down as a fighter, not saying came down as a fighter, but when that ended, um, I work a lot with military peop personnel or and athletes.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: And when that time ends, it's like, who am I?
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like what am I doing now?
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is my purpose?
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have I like, especially my sports players, because they've identified their entire life for a name that's right across the chest or big across the chest, and they've completely forgot about the name on their back.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: How is that process of coming out of that?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to now almost like a different path where it's almost like that that name, the name on your back is almost now the name on your chest that you're leaning into.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that the this question has a lot to do with your last question.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I where were you talking about like I didn't really have a picture of like an end state?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that this is where by having an image of uh who you want to be or what you want your life to be can actually be helpful in this specific uh area.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you have your desired end state and you or purpose and you're always working toward that, I think that you're probably gonna be able to make more gains in a shorter amount of time once you take the jersey off, so to speak, and you put on a new one, right?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I I've already been through that.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: I went through to where it was very easy for me in the beginning because uh I never was like, oh, I'm a fighter.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: I am a fighter, but I'm a martial artist.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, the transition into the uh business world was pretty seamless right away.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: I always knew I wanted to take the information and help people, what people?
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: All people.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and the way my brain works is if you um need this for your job, right?
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whether you're a fighter or whether you're military or law enforcement, or you just need this for your uh mental uh welfare, you know, or you want to learn how to defend your family.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you either way you feel like you need this information, everybody should get the same information.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's my opinion.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I should not give more details, more details, hidden information to someone who's fighting professionally for a living.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: You should give the same amount of information or the same level of information to your entire populace.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: Let them decide what they want to do with it.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't tell anybody what to do uh with the information you give them.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I thought that the transition was pretty seamless going into that world as like a martial arts school owner continuing to teach, teach, teach.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was something I had already been doing while I was fighting.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a natural gravitation toward me.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I always, honestly, I always knew that I was gonna do it.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard you say the science of violence a multiple times.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Professionals that are watching this, trainers, coaches, I like to share a little bit of that combative nature.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I'm not a jujitsu person.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have no experience in martial arts.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: I did take an Aikido class in college.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: Which was, which was, if I'm being honest, which was the most, one of the most difficult classes I took in college just because I wasn't expecting it to be so serious and I did not grow up in the martial arts.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I've taken so much of that into training.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy how they talk about the body, absorbing energy, using energy, leveraging your body.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought it was, it was, it hit me at the right time with coaching.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: For coaches that are watching this that see combatives in my world, it's becoming a little bit more popular, like uh rolling around on the ground, body shaping, leveraging, especially in football, like collision sports.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: What advice would you give them for integrating combative type the combative field into their training safely, safely and effectively?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I've I've seen this across my whole fighting career, high-level um athletes and coaches that were already trying to figure out how to do this.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: They could see the value in hard mindset.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: They could see the value in smarter, not harder, right?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you can always see the value in that when you're trying to help people who are trying to get the high-level individuals a little bit higher to be what Super Bowl champs or whatever.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's get them to the next level.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're already up here.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that we when we see fighting, uh, we see people who are combative.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we think, oh, those guys have hard mindset, and they probably do.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: So what can we borrow from that?
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe there it's something technical, but maybe it's something uh as easy as like a keynote, right?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a couple different aspects.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: But once you start training in uh anything that's combative, you're you're forced to look through a lens that is not specific to the sport world.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to look where within, especially if you don't have like the technique, right, to be successful.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have the mindset to be successful.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: We saw guys at the Miami Dolphins who were uh hitting pads and stuff like that for the crossover of hand speed.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did any of them care about being pro boxers?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: Why are they hitting pads?
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: They can see value that these people from a combative world are doing and how it might apply to them.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because even though they're on they're on the gridiron, right?
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's probably a lot of hard mindset stuff that has to do with that.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's everybody perceives it as like, oh, man on man, especially on the the front line, right?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, or how can I get to that guy faster?
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what can we borrow from?
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we as uh MMA fighters are doing that also.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're able to look into oh, what are these guys from wrestling doing, or what are these guys doing from specifically from kickboxing, or um what is this uh what is this like track runner doing?
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does he take off so fast?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because now that the MMA is as big as it is, we're starting to see high-level athletes in the sport as well.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that you always want to have an open mind.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was an old saying, it was on a Ninja Turtles episode, by the way.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love this reference that uh that Master Shredder said, I don't know who actually said it, but it was uh or no, Master Splinter said it.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: Master Splinter said it.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh the man who is too old to learn was probably always too old to learn.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that people who are closed-minded to maybe a different sport or an uh individual that did something different from them who has something to give, they're gonna be low-level individuals forever.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you always have to be able to and be willing to learn from someone else.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: Damn.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think with a lot of podcasts and things like this, I guess what this is it's very hypothetical.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, oh, these are my big ideas, but how the hell do I institute them?
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something that you think that coaches or people that are interested that is a easy way of just kind of easing into being in my mind when I think about martial arts, it's just awareness of your body in space, using your body, being aware of your body, using someone else's body against them.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is there things that you think could be uh ways of entry points for coaches to to explore, for a lack of a better word, the art of combatives?
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if as long as we have the right uh target audience, because it this is hard stuff.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um there is an inherent risk of injury when practicing this stuff.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: We can still do it safely, but you want to make sure that you get them with the right kind of people.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we can do stuff.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's like three different uh realms or ranges that we can talk about.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say you have like a striking type of range, and that's where we're doing the punching and the kicking.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: We have a clinching type of range, and that's where we're we're gonna be locked up in like more like a body lock kind of position where we see uh wrestling or judo, uh, maybe some Sambo other grappling martial arts occurring in.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have the ground, and that's where we're gonna be doing whether it comes from judo or sambo or Brazilian jujitsu, catch wrestling, wrestling, like again, grappling martial arts on the ground.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then the hardest part is what making those seamless and integrating all that stuff.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to take it to the next level, doing all of that with weapons.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really just up to the coach or who like what's the target audience, what what athletes that we're talking about, the leadership to kind of dictate like which uh what's gonna get the most.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Amount of benefit for that group.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned another quote to me, Cole, and you know, in martial arts, I think it's it's fascinating how how we talk about violence, how we talk about control.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you said this quote you sent to me, you should not have any special fondness for a particular weapon or anything else for that matter.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: Too much is the same, is not enough.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: Without imitating anyone else, you should have as much weaponry as suits you.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's powerful.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's some depth in there.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: What what resonates with you with that?
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one is the importance of do not imitate somebody else.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can I cannot do what you can do.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot do what I can do.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: But we can we can see, we can be inspired by others, but to try to imitate somebody who's great at one thing, you'll never be able to do what they do.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when that lack of originality occurs, that's where people ultimately they can get to a certain point, but where they're gonna fall pretty drastically at that point.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's gonna be obvious to everybody in the room, whether we're talking about fighting or we're talking about uh personality, that that's not authentic and that's a costume that you've been trying to wear, but it doesn't suit you.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that part about the imitation, but also the part about as much weaponry as suits you.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: When we talk about, when we talk about content specifically, it's let's say you have a boxer.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be an easier analogy.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: You have a boxer, and he is a power puncher.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: He is there to do one thing and one thing only: big uppercuts and big hooks.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then you start telling him how he can be a little faster and he can be a little bit more precise, and he needs to attack the body a little bit more after he's just bludgeoned everybody in his rear view mirror.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: That may be where um more is not always better.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: Giving that guy or girl more tools is not the thing that's best for them.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_01: That what is best for you as you tried to give that person the information.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I like a lot of toys, a lot of tools, because I'm very obsessed with martial arts and I like to I like to play with all of them.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that maybe is like what made me good, is that I could do a lot of different things, but none of them maybe really well.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: When I say really well, you see like world champions in like combative martial arts like Brazilian jujitsu or boxing or kickboxing.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they do, it's like, of course, they have an idea of how to do a lot of stuff, but the things that made them the most amount of money are what?
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just a couple things and a couple of key positions for that specific uh realm that they're working in.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe more is not always better.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's important for an athlete or per any person.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_01: But since we're talking about more of like the transition into athletes, an athlete needs to know that that more is not always better.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if you try to do too much, the weight of it, you're not gonna be able to hold.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably where you're gonna start to see some uh failure occur.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you just need to have it as much as suits you.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_01: And because you look up to somebody who can kind of handle more tools and more weaponry, maybe you just need to focus that less is more.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_02: Dang, dang.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: Cole, um, pleasure, brother.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you from when we first met at that KTC, was that two two years ago, three years ago, two or three years ago?
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure to watch you, man.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: I followed you on social media.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: I would encourage everyone out to follow you.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, your journey.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: The stuff you've shared with me is amazing.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_00: As a father, the stuff you shared is amazing.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, watching you coach now is just uh for me as a coach, I love to see other people push the profession, leave it better than they found it.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the way you've walked it and now you talk it, it's uh it's it's truly inspiring, man.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you, brother.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Fire it up, dog.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's good stuff.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.