Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / If Your Kids Are Running The Show, This Is Related To Marital Issues

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If Your Kids Are Running The Show, This Is Related To Marital Issues · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

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Hi everybody, and welcome to this episode of the doctor psych
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mom show before anything. Please do subscribe.
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I have close to 120 subscriber episodes.
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Probably more. By the time you hear this.
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And the most recent one was, why not to over respond when your
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wife puts her hand on your shoulder or anything like that?
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Even if you feel starved for affection, why this actually
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works against you? All right?
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So for today we are going to be talking about a very common
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Dynamic where where the more dysfunctional your marriage is
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the more dysfunctional, your family is overall and the
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children start to really epitomize the kind of bad
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feelings between the parents. And I'm basically to act like
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assholes to put not too fine a point on it.
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So how does this work? So basically kids need
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structure, they need boundaries, they need some expectations
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about this. Things are okay.
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And some things aren't okay and that the world doesn't revolve
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around them and their transient feelings.
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And as I've discussed, so many times, you can refer back to the
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podcast. Stop letting your kids treat you
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like garbage. A lot of times parents have the
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best of intentions. They were raised in super
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invalidating homes. Their feelings were never
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listened to on anything. So then they, you know, the
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pendulum swings opposite direction, which is actually no
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better and they become super permissive over validating every
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time the kid has A feeling it's taken like gospel.
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The entire family is structured around the child, never being
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upset about anything. And as you can imagine, then the
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children start to act, pretty self-absorbed.
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Not for anything bad about them, but they're just literally
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learning that they are the center of the world.
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So, I mean, they're smart, they're learning that.
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So, why does this happen more? When the parents are unhappy?
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Well, because the parents are basically married to the kids.
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They don't have any partner, they don't have.
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Who really supports them? Both of them feel this way, no
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matter what the issues are and so they throw themselves, holy
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into the children and the better, the children like them
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more short-term. The better that they, you know,
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that they feel that things go for them, which for children
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means getting everything they want.
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So if you are spouse, let's say you're a man whose wife won't
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touch you. Well, when do your kids, throw
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their arms around you and touch you and cuddle, you and say
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you're the best daddy when you give them everything they want.
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So short term, it seems Seems very easy to, you know, and and
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very good in the moment and very gratifying to buy them a lot of
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shit, for example, so that they're just so happy with you
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and they give you that smile and that love that you're missing.
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You know, that you don't get from anywhere else and this
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isn't a conscious thing, you know, but it's a very
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subconscious thing, people need love.
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And if they're not getting it from the from the partner,
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they're never getting any positive formation or touch or
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cuddling or compliments, then they want In the children.
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And how do you get things from people by being nice to them?
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And for kids that's giving them everything they want in the
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moment. And so, it's sometimes to the
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point that it's really, a surrogate spouse that the child
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really becomes a surrogate spouse.
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So like for example, the mother will sleep in the kids room
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instead of what the father and you know her her stated reasons
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are that the kid is scared of the dark, you know, or something
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like this. Which of course, kids not going
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to be scared of the dark if they're not made to be scared of
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the dark by never giving them a Relation to get over being
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scared of the dark scared of the dark is something that could be
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easily gotten over like any phobia with exposure
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increasingly exposing the child to being in the dark with our
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kids is a thing that happens, you know, every night.
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So it's kind of big one for a kid to have to get over.
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But the mother doesn't really want to because then she gets
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then the cuddle time doesn't happen.
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And so, she really values the cuddle time because she doesn't
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get anything from her husband. He may want to cuddle, but maybe
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he's just not a nice guy. Her in general, which of course
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that is, because she's not that nice to him in general, etc.
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Etc. But the point is not to blame
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either parent for this, but when the couple is unhappy, both of
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them start to try to get their emotional.
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Needs met subconsciously from the children, and that's the
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cuddling and the affirmation and all of this and you get more of
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that when you do whatever the kid wants.
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So there could be a lot of conflict because one parent
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could be acting like this, but the other ones see, Is it more
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for what it is and doesn't want to do it and says, but you know,
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if you keep giving them, everything then that's why
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they're acting entitled, and then, of course, that parent,
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who's giving them everything was likely one that was given
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nothing as a kid. And they don't want to replicate
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that for the child. So then they start to think of
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the partner as a horrible, you know, Beast an authoritarian
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asshole, just like the father that she grew up with, or
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whatever, the mother he grew up with and then the conflict over
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the parenting styles. Then make the marriage even
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worse. Oh, that's a vicious cycle.
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So they start the parenting problems may start at least in
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part because the parents are lonely and they have their own
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individual issues. But from stemming from their
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upbringing, that was likely too harsh when they swing too
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permissive. But then if they have if they're
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not on the same page with it fully or if one is less
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permissive than the other, then they start fighting over that.
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And that amplifies the existing marital problems, which then, of
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course makes the problems worse between the kids with the kids.
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It now also, what are other ways?
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That a dysfunctional. Family can impact the children.
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Well, the children do what they see.
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And so, if the parents are always, bickering, always
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blaming always passive aggressive with each other, then
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you'll see the exact same behaviors happen between the
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siblings. And this can be very
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uncomfortable and people push out of Consciousness where and
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how their children have learned this, but they're learning it.
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Exactly from the parents in a home where the parents were kind
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and respectful to each other, there's not fighting like this
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between siblings. There's always a little bit of
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bickering over like resources and stuff.
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There's limited toys, limited, whatever, that's just normal for
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any like mammal. You know, to kind of try to get
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some kind of power over the other, you know, members of the
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pack that's like a normal mammalian Behavior.
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But the kids that are really nasty to each other, see parents
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being really nasty to each other.
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And that just is what it is. And it's very uncomfortable to
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think about, but it's a truth that could help you have an
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epiphany about the need to work on your marriage.
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So that your children Children do not approximate the same
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behaviors both now. And also, of course, when
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they're older with friends, co-workers, intimate partners
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and so forth. So, whenever the kids are really
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tantruming in a, in a house, I say, which parent has anger
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issues, and there's always one, you know, because that's how the
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kid knows, that's how they know to Tantra.
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Sometimes they're just a very reactive kid and they get
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placated very quickly. They get given shit as soon as
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they yell because both parents are terrified of them having a
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negative And these would be two parents that had very strict or
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difficult parents themselves. So they're so terrified of the
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kid, having a negative emotion that the child learns to tantrum
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basically on his own. Because as soon as he gets loud
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enough, then he gets his needs met instantly because the
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parents hate the loud or they hate the idea of him being
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upset, but most of the time, the kids tantrum is just directly
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related to that. They see a parent screaming and
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yelling. So this is what we do.
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When we're unhappy we scream and yell, kids are very smart, you
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know? And so So they learn from what
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they see and often this is why whenever there's kid problems, I
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always say the parent should go to therapy that can really
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expedite the process. A lot of parents don't want to
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go to therapy, they don't want to look in at their own
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behavior. But if they do the people I have
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that that really do that'll say, man.
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You're right. We do yell at each other and
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that must be where the kids are getting it.
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I'd say, try not to yell at each other for a week, literally not
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because you're trying to be nice to each other because you don't
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like each other, I understand. But both you love the kids.
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Why don't you just try and see, right?
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Try and see if the amount of yelling in the house goes down,
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both between you and the kids. If you just stop you out,
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though, usually try people. You know, people that have the
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motivation to come into therapy are a different breed though,
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right? That's not everybody, but once
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they have the motivation to come in a subset of those will really
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be objective and we'll really try things and when they do it
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invariably goes very well. They'll come back in a week or
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two and be like holy shit. The Tantrums really went down.
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We didn't Realize how much they were related to them, literally
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looking at us yelling. And now that you say it, of
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course, of course, you know, they're watching us.
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Try to get our needs met via yelling, why wouldn't they do
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it? Of course they would do it,
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right? So this could be a super big
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learning experience and inflection point for couples in
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distress to say, well, should if they're picking that up, what
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else are they picking up? Are they picking that?
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We blame each other for everything that we roll.
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Our eyes at each other that we don't touch each other.
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That we are unhappy doing family activities.
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That they always seem so stressful that we're always
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rushing and Urgent and everything.
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Always seems, you know, kind of terrible and where did we in
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fact learn to think of everything is terrible.
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Wow. Should I guess it was from our
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families of origin that were kind of joyless and now we're
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unfortunately replicating the same thing, right?
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So these can be super big epiphanies.
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The other big Epiphany again is the short-term gratification
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where you make a child happy very short.
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Term by buying them and giving them anything they want, they
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never have to eat anything. They don't want, they never have
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to sleep when they don't want. They never have to do anything.
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Really? They don't want and then to be
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surprised that they end up acting entitled a narcissistic
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is crazy. I mean, your kid would be stupid
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if they weren't narcissistic, if you're treating them like that,
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I mean, they're learning literally that they're the
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center of the world. I never have to do anything.
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They don't want to do. So why wouldn't they act like a
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dick? And it may be cute when they're
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three years old, although not really, but it's Really, I'm
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gonna be cute with her 13 years old and it's really not going to
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be cute when they're 23 years old, so it's going to be even
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less cute, you know, with every passing year.
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So what do you do? If you're in a situation where
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your children do act? Very difficult and entitled and,
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you know, self-centered you got to look inward, you got to say,
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am I so unhappy in my marriage that I throw myself into
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appeasing the children? Either because I have zero
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bandwidth to deal with They're being upset because I myself am
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upset. So I have like literally no
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tolerance of them being upset because it just adds more to my
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burden of being unhappy and or am I trying to make them love
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me? Because I don't get enough love,
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you know? And so these things are never
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just because in the marriage, by the way, there are also like the
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people that end up in unhappy marriages are always.
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As I've said people that have seen unhappy marriages, people
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that end up in happy marriages. So happy marriages.
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Like, you know, not everything's 100%.
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But this is a main effect, a large main effect.
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So if you saw an unhappy marriage growing up, then it's
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likely or you'll be in an unhappy marriage and then that
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intergenerational trauma will just pass down and down and down
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so you don't want it to keep passing down.
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So this is why it's so super important to understand what's
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going on here is that you may be a piece in your kids because you
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do not have any ability to deal with them.
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Now, there's also other situations that you can
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understand even more simplistically, so Currently
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marriages that are distressed. Have a parent who has addiction
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issues one or both so in families where everybody's
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drinking the reader drinking, or they're hung over there.
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Like there's two states drinking and hung over in neither stake,
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an apparent deal. Well, with a child whining or
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crying or being distressed. So they just basically plug the
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kid into whatever device as a babysitter or they just kind of
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appease them, they just throw snacks or toys or again screen.
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I'm whatever into the kids because they are, they have no
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bandwidth to deal with them because they're either drinking
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or using or whatever or on video games, whatever they're addicted
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to, or they're hung over from that thing.
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So, and they have like headache, they have to sleep whatever.
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So, in these sorts of situations, where there's any
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kind of substance abuse or addiction, you know, then the
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kids kind of really just run wild.
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They just do their own thing and periodically, they get something
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thrown at them to shut them up and this can happen.
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And also, when parents are addicted to marital conflict.
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So, there's a lot of people who disappear into their bedroom,
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four hours so that they could fight which they called talking,
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and the kids know, it's fighting and they talk and talk and talk.
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And the kids just basically run around the house like lunatics
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because they don't have any attention, they don't have any
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structure. And then sometimes it's
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interesting is that the parents will only see this.
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Once we start really working on stuff in couples counseling and
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they get better and they get out of the out of the room because
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it's like a number one thing that I talk about is, you cannot
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I have these extended discussions in your bedroom.
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You just can't your kids are running like lunatics around the
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house and you got to get out. Like we can talk in here, you
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know, and you could talk maybe after they go to sleep.
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If you can't, if you can stop yourself from yelling, which is
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unusual but they can't do it while they're awake.
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Just can't. So a lot of people again, if
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they are committed enough to come in, will try that and then
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they're like, oh my God, they can't behave for shit.
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Holy God. Like where what?
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You know like they did. This is a lunatic Silo, why?
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Because they're used to being completely on their own because
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everybody was so preoccupied with having these endless
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discussions really fighting about the marriage.
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So they were basically, it was like, Lord of the Flies and now
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you're coming in and you're looking at it, you're like, oh
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my God, is there even a bedtime? Why I thought we had a bedtime?
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Do we have a bedtime? Well, yeah, bedtime varied every
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night based on if the parents are yelling at each other or
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not, So when you start to deal with the marital dysfunction and
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it recedes a little bit, then off in your like oh my God, the
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inmates are running the Asylum this whole time and now we got
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to do something about it and that can be a major focus at
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that stage of couples counseling can turn into basically family
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counseling. Not that we include the
14:17
children. I've really rarely seen
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situations that would be better including small children and a
14:24
family counseling situation versus just the parent if they
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are, of course. Course committed and motivated.
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They are motivated. Then the just the adults working
14:34
on something can change the entire atmosphere.
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Such that the children don't have to work on anything
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directly told to them by a therapist.
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They could just be literally children that are responding
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like plants do. If you move it to another
14:45
window, they grow a different direction, toward the sun is in
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a different place. So the parents are the sun, you
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know, and the kids are the plants in this so if the Sun
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starts acting different, so it is the plant.
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So, if you guys calm down you and your spouse that are
14:59
listening, Into this maybe and you calm down and you start to
15:02
take a long-term view of parenting where you need
15:06
structure and you need some rules and consistency and
15:09
routine, and calmness, and love between parents smiling, smiling
15:15
between parents smiling at the children.
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We all touch. We all hug will cuddle.
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We all talk nicely to each other expected, things happen.
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At certain times of the day, every day we have three meals.
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We have a bedtime, we have awaked.
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Time. Nobody is screaming at each
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other. Nobody blames each other.
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You can get to this place. This isn't just like television
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adult children of dysfunctional. Families are like.
15:38
Yeah. Right?
15:39
What's that? Family Ties bullshit.
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That isn't really real life. Yes, it is.
15:43
It can be many people change to that and their kids.
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It's really interesting. Like once you move toward a more
15:50
functional Dynamic, you'll sometimes have a fight with your
15:53
spouse. Not like you used to, but any
15:56
kind of a fight we're like you snap at them for something and
16:00
See your children all go on to hyper-vigilant high alert and
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look up and ask like are things okay and you'll be like, oh my
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God it'll be like a knife, you know, to the heart people say,
16:12
right? Because they realized that that
16:15
used to be happening like infinity times a day and they
16:19
didn't even think about it because they didn't think it
16:21
could be different. Then once you make the family,
16:23
calmer if there are things like that, were the parents disagree
16:27
or something, you see in real time, Time that the children are
16:31
so scared and anxious and and you know, questioning and and it
16:36
stresses them really is the point their cortisol.
16:40
You could almost see it pump into their bloodstream and then
16:43
you like, oh my God, they used to be all the time, right?
16:46
But people can get to this place, I work with many people
16:50
that can get to a place where they're having a calm, or house
16:53
for their kids, with structure and they're giving the kids
16:55
something that they never had, which is really, isn't that the
16:58
point? That's the point.
16:59
Parenting to give your kids what you never had right to give them
17:03
a happy. Calm consistent life.
17:06
If that sounds like a pipe dream than you ought to get into
17:09
counseling because your children deserve it not to be a pipe
17:11
dream. Right?
17:12
Just like you did. Unfortunately that part is too
17:15
late for you but it can be very healing for you to be able to
17:19
give it to your children and to be in a loving and happy
17:22
marriage yourself. Can everybody do that?
17:24
Note, sometimes people just cannot stop fight in that case I
17:28
always recommend if you cannot Stop fighting no matter what you
17:31
do, no matter what counselor, you see.
17:32
And the children are continually stressed, then certainly a
17:35
divorce with to calm homes, is better than one crazy one, where
17:39
there's constant fighting and insanity.
17:42
But many, many people can change.
17:43
They really can, especially when they're motivated to help their
17:46
children to help their children, that don't deserve this the same
17:49
as you didn't deserve. All right.
17:51
Well, I hope that this would resonates with some of you and
17:55
of course, you can always reach out to me for counseling or my
17:57
people at best life, Behavioral Health.
17:59
Or I'm all out of network, so not everybody can do that,
18:03
right? So psychology today.com, right?
18:07
Has people that do accept Insurance, you know?
18:11
And so everybody really, you know, you really owe it to your
18:13
children to make the there are dynamic in the home as calm and
18:19
consistent and not to make them into assholes quite honestly,
18:22
right? Like they if you throw
18:24
everything down their throat and then you say why are my kids?
18:27
So self-absorbed? Well I mean shit.
18:29
And how are you making them? If you fed your dog 15 times a
18:33
day, and then he started whining, you know, every five
18:36
minutes for another treat, would your dog be an asshole?
18:39
Know, you would be a bad dog owner?
18:42
Because you make it, your dog an asshole.
18:44
So it's the same kind of thing with children.
18:46
All right? Well, I will depart I hope that
18:48
this was resident with some of you and I'll talk to everybody
18:52
soon. Bye, bye.
18:29
And how are you making them? If you fed your dog 15 times a
18:33
day, and then he started whining, you know, every five
18:36
minutes for another treat, would your dog be an asshole?
18:39
Know, you would be a bad dog owner?
18:42
Because you make it, your dog an asshole.
18:44
So it's the same kind of thing with children.
18:46
All right? Well, I will depart I hope that
18:48
this was resident with some of you and I'll talk to everybody
18:52
soon. Bye, bye.