Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / Pleasure, Healing, and the Power of Sex Therapy with Karimah Cornelius-Stith

Transcript

Pleasure, Healing, and the Power of Sex Therapy with Karimah Cornelius-Stith · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

• 0:00
  I I consider myself to be soft because I realized that I like
• 0:03
  to be cared for in a soft, gentle manner and I treat people
• 0:10
  that way. Even my form of therapy, I am
• 0:13
  supportive with my clients, I am loving and kind to others, so I
• 0:20
  give what I expect back in return.
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  But when I say I'm soft, don't think that my softness is
• 0:27
  weakness because myself is not violent.
• 0:31
  Yeah, it's. Not silent at all.
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  So I definitely have my voice and I choose to use it.
• 0:39
  Hello Field podcast audience. Welcome back this week.
• 0:42
  I've got a new friend here with me today, Karina Cornelius Stiff
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  and she is going to have so much to offer you today and so many
• 0:51
  resources and just a really thoughtful story that we're
• 0:57
  going to walk through with our talking points.
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  You're going to see how she is so, so authentically connected
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  to the work she does. And and that's going to become
• 1:08
  very clear as we have this conversation.
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  Karima describes herself as kind, compassionate, creative,
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  soft. I love that so much in and
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  insightful. Karima, welcome to the Field
• 1:22
  podcast. Thank you so much, Melissa.
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  It's such a joy talking to you. It's it's, it's a joy to have
• 1:29
  you here. All right, let's start right off
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  with this because this is important for you because you
• 1:34
  spend a lot of time pouring into other people.
• 1:38
  So it's very important for you to pour into yourself.
• 1:41
  So you have the capacity to pour into other people the way you
• 1:45
  do. So talk to me about your journey
• 1:47
  with self-care and prioritizing that in your life.
• 1:51
  So funny enough, Melissa, I just wrapped up last month a women's
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  group that I had the absolute pleasure the to witness women
• 2:07
  expressing themselves in ways. I wanted to create a group that
• 2:12
  was empowering and I named it Self Love Society.
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  Oh, I love that. Oh, that's so good.
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  And the amount of growth for that short time was remarkable
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  to the point when after we said goodbye, I would spend almost an
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  hour discussing it with the intern because we just enjoyed
• 2:34
  the group so much. And it was all about redefining
• 2:39
  what self love and self-care is and also self worth, because so
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  many times the people focus so much on what they're doing and
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  thinking that that is what their self worth is and that's not.
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  Yeah. Neglecting themselves and not
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  realizing that self-care is not about getting your nails done or
• 3:00
  going to the spa. But that's also a part of our
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  self love. It's just making time and
• 3:05
  setting those healthy boundaries for yourself and with your loved
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  ones and even with your coworkers so you can make time
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  for yourself and everything else that's very important to us.
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  So it was just awesome. And not only did the ladies
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  learn, but I learned too. So it was just a great time of
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  refreshing myself and also learning new techniques to show
• 3:30
  up in different ways. Because this has been such a
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  busy season in my life, I think this year is my year.
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  Yes, I think, I, I think somehow I don't know in, in what
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  capacity that everything that has come my way in the last
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  couple of months and I have not turned almost anything down when
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  it came to podcasts, maybe 5 different podcasts back-to-back.
• 3:58
  Oh wow. Speaking at a marriage summit, I
• 4:03
  said as to with very little time, I had my own projects for
• 4:06
  my practice that I was launching our signature in person event
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  called Building Bridges. So we did that and launched that
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  two weeks after speaking at a marriage summit.
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  And then from the marriage summit I created my workbook
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  because you know, Melissa, I'm a little bit of an overachiever.
• 4:25
  So so I thought to myself, well if I'm going to talk to these
• 4:29
  couples, why wouldn't I give them a little something to
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  encourage them along their journey?
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  So since I am a sex therapist, I wanted them to be encouraged and
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  have little ideas to keep the fire going.
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  And when I turned it in and I surprised the audience, my
• 4:48
  husband said, baby, this is actually good.
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  You need to stop moving this away.
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  So. Here I am, you know, I just
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  turned in my manuscript this morning, Melissa.
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  So I am, I'm so excited. I'm so excited.
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  So this is my year of yes. But so I've been carving out not
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  only saying yes to all these different projects and, and
• 5:12
  exploding in such a beautiful way professionally, but also
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  making sure that I'm taking time for my marriage.
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  So I'm connecting with my husband and I'm also taking
• 5:23
  breaks. So that's also important to make
• 5:26
  sure that you are able to pause and also to feel OK to say no.
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  Yeah, yes, because you can do both of those things.
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  You can say yes to these things that feel authentic to you and
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  still put in the boundaries you need to make sure you're showing
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  up the way you want to in those spaces.
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  And I have to laugh because in creating this workbook and
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  folks, by the time you hear this, this this fall, it's going
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  to be out to the world and we're going to be featuring that on
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  our sub stack life. So watch out for that.
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  It'll also be LinkedIn our resources page on our website at
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  embrace these layers.com. So, but I'd love that idea of a
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  workbook. I just I just released an online
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  course on July 1st and I wasn't intending to create a workbook
• 6:14
  with it. And when a person, a good friend
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  of my beta group that I was running this through before I
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  released it, said this needs a workbook.
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  And I was like, you're right, it does.
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  And I hadn't thought about it because it does give, it helps
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  to have those ways to engage that that thing in front of you.
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  It's like you're not just here taking in information, you're
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  here to engage with absolutely your notes, the things that work
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  with you. But I think so many times when
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  the juices start flowing, we keep saying yes because our
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  creative brains are giving us all these things.
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  But also within that, I understand that I got to a point
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  earlier this week where I'm like, I need to really take some
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  time this weekend and rest because I have been going hard
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  with a lot of yeses and I'm starting to feel it a little
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  bit. I'm starting to feel a little
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  irritable. And I'm like, I, I, I violated a
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  few boundaries to get this work done and now it's time to
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  reinstitute those and get myself back to where I know I need to
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  be in order to show up the way I want to.
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  So you really describe that so well and how we can show up in
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  our own relationships. I can also wholeheartedly relate
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  to the fact that my husband will look at me.
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  He's like, you have to quit giving everything away for free.
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  This is really good stuff and you have lots of free options,
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  but it's OK to ask people to pay you what you're worth.
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  And so I it's so good we have those partners in our life to
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  remind us of that because we as women struggle with that.
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  And that is part of our self-care, too, in knowing that
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  we are in the spaces where it's appropriate, being compensated
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  for what we're putting out into the world.
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  I totally agree. I wholeheartedly agree when you
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  think that we are paid so much less just because we are women.
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  And often times we accept it because we don't ask for it.
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  We just don't ask. So.
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  We have to be bold to act and know our worth and just, yeah,
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  just just state our price and let it go because we know that
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  we are providing quality work. Yeah, yeah, that there.
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  Oh, so good. You mentioned this already in
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  the confidently setting healthy boundaries piece that I'm going
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  to go into. You do that, you've create that
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  time and space to fill your cup because you know how necessary
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  it is. When did you realize the value
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  of that? So in terms of the need for that
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  in boundaries, is that something you were naturally inclined to
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  or did you have to learn that? I think I learned that during
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  the pandemic. Tell you the truth, that's when
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  mental health services were needed the most.
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  Sure, when at one point I felt as if I was working around the
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  clock. I was happy that my mom was
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  visiting was before I met my husband.
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  So I was happy that we were quarantining together.
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  And she's like continue working. And I was just like, I cannot
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  work 24/7. I don't have to tell her no.
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  She's like, well, there's nothing else to do.
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  I thought that might be true, but at least I can sit down.
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  We could bake. We could take long drives.
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  Because also I need to rest. If I don't rest then I won't be
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  good to anyone else. So.
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  It was a nice reminder of taking time for yourself.
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  It may not be equal, but we also need to take breaks.
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  So I realized the importance of taking my vacations at least
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  quarterly, taking some time off. I work a four day week so I may
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  have a hectic work schedule, but Monday through Thursday, but
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  Friday, Saturday, Sunday, they're my time to maybe catch
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  up on paperwork. But I really try to just
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  reconnect with my loved ones so and just take a break for
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  myself. Yeah, absolutely.
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  Such a necessary part of it. And yeah, it's interesting you
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  say where your mom sex. I think generationally we are
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  unlearning and relearning healthier ways to exist.
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  And for generations before that, in a lot of ways it was
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  necessary. It didn't feel safe necessarily
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  to not work or not show up. And also there wasn't a language
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  for it. I mean, there's just so many
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  things we are learning about that too.
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  So I think carrying that narrative forward, when I'm
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  here, I'm fully present, but when I leave, then I leave.
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  And I Yeah. And I do.
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  And I the reason when I leave, I leave is so I can be fully
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  present when I'm here, you know, so that I wants to really go
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  together. So good.
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  All right. Taking care of our emotional
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  health, mental health, physical health.
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  You help people do this. You help couples.
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  Do this this. You know, very much a part of
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  your work, but also again, very important to do it for yourself.
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  When did you realize that that connection was real?
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  Because we contend to historically as we've grown up,
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  it's really probably, I would say just the last 10-15 years
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  that we've even started discussing the connection
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  between all of those things. We tend to treat them in these
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  different silos. So talk to me about your
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  realization of those connectivity pieces.
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  Well, that came very early because mental health runs in
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  the family. I have a aunt, well, two aunts,
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  both sides of the family who suffered with mental illness and
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  one aunt who really inspired me to be a therapist.
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  Unfortunately she's not with us any anymore, but I realized that
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  when she had a mental breakdown was because she was not
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  attending to her emotional health.
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  Man, and that is so that's we live.
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  There's so much silence and shame and stigmas that have gone
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  on with this for years. And we're working so hard to
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  create safer spaces, especially in the line of work that you're
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  in. But even I think across the
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  board, so much of my motivation of doing this is like, we got to
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  talk about this stuff. Absolutely pieces.
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  We need to make sure women aren't feeling isolated and like
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  without resources and that they known that and without the shame
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  and embarrassment and all these things are so many of us that
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  have have these impacts and these these things that we are
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  dealing with. And there's resources available,
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  but you can't access the resources and you can't be given
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  the resources if you don't let anyone know you need the
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  resources. But you know, taking so many of
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  the stigmas off of these illnesses, off of the diagnosis,
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  knowing what's potty many, so many people, would they have the
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  right resources and the right care and support can live fully
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  healthy, wonderful lives. And so there's so much more
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  possible. But then the sad truth is that
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  so many people who have mental illness, they die.
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  The truth is that so many people who have mental illness die at a
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  much younger age than others who are healthy.
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  Because, for example, my aunt who passed away, she died the
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  same year as my grandmother. My grandmother died at 104.
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  Oh wow. And my aunt died just a few
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  months before, but she probably passed away in her 60s.
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  But because of her mental illness, we believe that she
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  wasn't able to take care of herself the way that she would
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  have if she did not have that diagnosis.
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  Wow, wow. Yeah, I mean, there's the
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  connections right there. I mean, it's so, you know, and
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  it's just talking about and pointing that because once
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  you're aware of it, you know, and also having people around
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  you asking the right questions. Absolutely, because.
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  Once family knew, they were able to try to get her the the best
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  services necessary to help her with the depression and the
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  delusions that she was experiencing.
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  But still there was some limitations because she lived
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  alone at some points. So wow, I'm not sure with those
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  absences where people not around her 24/7, there are probably
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  things that she wasn't able to probably take her medication or
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  visit the doctor at certain times.
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  So unfortunately she she died possibly prematurely, but
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  because of not having the awareness and the insights,
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  because of her well in association with her illness,
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  her mental. Sure, sure, absolutely.
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  And you know, and, and which really goes beautifully, sadly,
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  but connectedly into your, this is how you show up.
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  You use that as a motivation to show up for yourself and others
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  unapologetically in this, like this doesn't have to be this
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  way. I can be a resource for myself
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  and for other people in these spaces.
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  And so and so that really drove what it, the choices you made
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  and being in this space. Now talk to me so and so to me
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  that is living unapologetically in a nutshell, for yourself and
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  for other women, for other people.
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  You've chosen an area to focus in on really helping couples.
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  You've chosen another area that is a major component of our
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  health, and that's our sexual health.
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  Our mental health, emotional health, physical health, sexual
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  health, spiritual health, They're all pieces and
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  components of that puzzle and you're able to show up that way.
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  Talk to me about what was the driver behind going that
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  direction. So the driver was helping,
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  always helping, and trying to be compassionate to others.
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  I was helping a friend who started in ministry at the
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  church we were attending at that time, and she asked for me to be
• 16:15
  a professional liaison. That was the title.
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  So I closed my practice, said goodbye to the other therapist
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  and I would spend my Wednesday evenings in this self ran group.
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  But if someone had a need to see a professional, I was on
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  standby. Gotcha.
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  I was listening to the women who were sharing their experiences
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  with sexual abuse. I realized I am not that
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  equipped to help them. All these years of practicing
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  and all this focus on anxiety and depression, but when it
• 16:52
  comes to sexual abuse, we really as therapist, we, we got like
• 16:58
  one class in grad school. Wow, that covers sex,
• 17:04
  relationships and marriage and that's it.
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  But abuse wasn't even a part of it.
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  Wow, so, so I felt in in some ways inadequate with my training
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  and with with how I felt. I wanted a desire to know more,
• 17:25
  to help more. And I attended this training
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  about what therapist needs to know about sex.
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  And as I sat and I listened to to GAIL and she break for lunch,
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  I walked up to her and I said, I want to be your supervisor.
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  And she said she watched me like, huh?
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  And I said, no, I want to do what you're doing.
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  I want to be a sex therapist. I now know where I want to focus
• 17:54
  my attention. Melissa, when I graduated from,
• 17:58
  I think it was high school, I was quoted in the newspaper in
• 18:01
  the Virgin that I wanted to be a child psychologist.
• 18:05
  Oh wow, So far from where I am. Now what you learned in Evolve
• 18:12
  Bro and Change. Absolutely, absolutely.
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  I realized that this was my call and I love talking to people
• 18:20
  about relationships. I want to be able to help
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  because I realized not only were the women in that support group
• 18:28
  and that ministry was talking about their past abuse, but that
• 18:32
  majority of my clients, both women and men, were sharing
• 18:38
  child sexual abuse experiences that were keeping them stuck in
• 18:43
  their present relationships and in their feelings of low self
• 18:47
  worth. So I realized it was a necessity
• 18:51
  to learn more. Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:54
  And what how thankful that you are that you found that person
• 18:59
  to connect with and say, I want to do what you do and make those
• 19:03
  connections. And so how, how was she trained?
• 19:07
  How did she get her training? I'm curious.
• 19:09
  So GAIL Gutman. Hi, GAIL.
• 19:13
  She would laugh and she told me her story.
• 19:15
  She said she, I think she, I told her about my she said when,
• 19:21
  when I started this, you were probably just born.
• 19:27
  She said that she was straight out of grad school and she was
• 19:30
  looking for a job. And I think she said she found
• 19:34
  someone who was doing sex therapy and she she was trained
• 19:38
  under them. And she's also not only a sex
• 19:43
  therapy supervisor, but she's also a imago relationship
• 19:47
  therapist. She also encouraged me to do
• 19:49
  some training with that extensive training.
• 19:52
  So not only do I just help people with their intimacy, but
• 19:56
  I help them with their relationship in general.
• 19:58
  So it's been such a wonderful process to learn how to help
• 20:03
  people connect in very real and deep ways.
• 20:08
  Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned something
• 20:10
  important. I think this is important to
• 20:12
  cover here because it is so much more.
• 20:14
  And you found this out as you were working with people for
• 20:17
  more widespread than we realized that the impacts one, how many
• 20:22
  children are sexually abused and two, the long term effects that
• 20:27
  has on their relationship with themselves and relationship with
• 20:31
  other people. If it's not addressed it it you
• 20:35
  carry it and sometimes you don't even carry it know your carrying
• 20:38
  it in until you come into those spaces and you're like, you
• 20:42
  don't feel safe even though the person you're with is safe.
• 20:45
  You I mean there's all this stuff gets triggered that you've
• 20:48
  never had to deal with before. And then that indirectly impacts
• 20:53
  the relationship. And sometimes it can be mistaken
• 20:55
  as you are not wanting to connect with your current
• 20:58
  partner, but it but it has everything to do with things
• 21:02
  that have happened before that they're not connected to at all.
• 21:05
  But if you don't unpack and do that work, then you get exactly
• 21:10
  what you said, you get stuck. So I would imagine a lot of this
• 21:16
  work and we'll get into the layers talking point in a bit
• 21:19
  that has a lot to do with unpacking those layers and
• 21:23
  learning who they are and unlearning these things that
• 21:26
  aren't true. They're hurtful and shameful.
• 21:29
  So all those pieces, Oh my gosh. Well, and this goes nicely into
• 21:33
  we're going to come back to that, but this goes nicely into
• 21:36
  coming back to your why and your values and what you do.
• 21:39
  That clicked a very clear why for you.
• 21:42
  Like you had a real epiphany moment with that.
• 21:47
  So talk to me about how that's you know that you know, you've
• 21:51
  set up this whole, you have a website, this whole practice
• 21:54
  you've brought other people in. Talk to me how once you knew
• 21:58
  this is what you want to do, how you were able to move forward
• 22:01
  with that. So I still see individuals for,
• 22:04
  for anxiety and depression and all the other sexual, all the
• 22:08
  other psychiatric disorders, but my, my primary focus is couples
• 22:17
  and individuals who are seeking sex therapy.
• 22:20
  So I have a little joke for you, Melissa.
• 22:23
  A few months ago, I was visiting my my husband's church in
• 22:28
  Virginia and we needed to drive home.
• 22:31
  And I was telling the lady, I said, oh, I need to hurry up,
• 22:34
  'cause I, I need to do my billing for Medicaid.
• 22:38
  And she, she opened her eyes wide and she leaned forward over
• 22:45
  the Pew as she looked around and she whispered, can you bill
• 22:51
  Medicaid for what you do? And I leaned forward like, yes,
• 23:01
  what does she think I do? So I realize especially people
• 23:07
  are still uninformed as to what sex therapists do.
• 23:11
  Yes. Where is.
• 23:13
  This and they still feel like they have to whisper about it.
• 23:16
  Yes, she did. She wanted to search you.
• 23:18
  You could do that. Like I have whips and shades.
• 23:23
  I don't know feathers. This is not 50 Shades of Grey.
• 23:31
  Oh, so tell you the truth, I've been fired at least twice.
• 23:36
  Oh, wow. Yeah, because they didn't
• 23:39
  realize that there is no sex in sex therapy.
• 23:44
  Oh, wow. Where they call to make the
• 23:47
  appointment and I'm telling them, oh, it's virtual, that how
• 23:50
  do we have sex? Like sorry excuse.
• 23:55
  Me. No, no, no, no, no.
• 23:56
  That's that's not a part of it. It's talk therapy.
• 24:00
  We'll talk about what's going on, what's happening to you.
• 24:04
  So oftentimes my mom says, oh, you can't don't tell people that
• 24:07
  you're a sex therapist. I said, I'm very proud of that.
• 24:10
  That was a lot of work. It was like getting a second
• 24:13
  master's. It was yes, it was years of
• 24:18
  training, hours of supervision with GAIL and Dwayne, individual
• 24:25
  and group. So, and then a lot, a lot of
• 24:29
  work putting everything together and even keeping the
• 24:32
  certification updated. So I'm very proud of it.
• 24:37
  But I, I have to inform people as to what it is because what
• 24:43
  they see on TV is not reality. I.
• 24:46
  Don't know no, I think that's so important you said that and also
• 24:49
  remind us of the stigmas that still exist around this I mean
• 24:53
  she's in a church Pune she's like I have to like God can't
• 24:56
  hear you when you're and and and God I think it's so important to
• 25:01
  God gave us all of these things pleasure exactly they.
• 25:05
  Don't my body so we can experience pleasure, but
• 25:08
  sometimes we put so many limitations on it.
• 25:12
  We do. We do.
• 25:14
  We've been told that aren't accurate, that aren't
• 25:18
  absolutely, but so I love how you've stood up to that.
• 25:21
  Like, no, you're going to inform people and not embarrassed.
• 25:24
  I've worked hard and this is a component of our health.
• 25:27
  And this is. You know, it really is.
• 25:30
  And we need to start my friend, Doctor Fannie Lobel and Jera has
• 25:33
  been on the platform with me quite a few times.
• 25:35
  And she's she lives in France. She's a gynecologist, but she
• 25:39
  also is a sexual health coach because she was much similar to
• 25:43
  you, hearing women come into her practice all the time and having
• 25:48
  these issues that were so much deeper than physical issues.
• 25:53
  They were things that were going on with the mentally,
• 25:55
  emotionally, they were stuck. They didn't they didn't have
• 25:58
  good, you know, relationships or views with themselves.
• 26:02
  So they couldn't connect with others.
• 26:04
  And so it's a very real part of our relationships and the impact
• 26:10
  and the value that we feel and our connections.
• 26:14
  It's all and those connections bring up a lot of healthy, good
• 26:19
  hormones with them it. Does because if our sex life is
• 26:23
  great, it increases so many other areas.
• 26:26
  Our overall Wellness improves, our relationships improve
• 26:29
  because we have greater satisfaction, we're happier, we
• 26:33
  have if we're I'll, we're able to heal quicker, we we feel less
• 26:38
  pain and just being sexual as we age is important too.
• 26:43
  Yeah. So this doesn't have to stop
• 26:45
  when you're 50. Yeah.
• 26:46
  I mean, there's something like grandma and grandpa don't have
• 26:48
  to sleep in separate bedrooms. I mean, all the things we've
• 26:51
  seen on TV over the years that have been portrayed by this,
• 26:54
  I've loved. This is so good and really goes
• 26:56
  into living out of your own expectations versus others.
• 27:00
  You have not let others expectations derail you and what
• 27:05
  you know to be true. Not at all.
• 27:08
  I think I take a lot of joy in creating a little rise because
• 27:13
  before that I was the. Before I got married, I was the
• 27:18
  Christian sex therapist that created a lot of.
• 27:24
  Statement. Like what what I remember going
• 27:29
  to my first conference and the lady was talking about God
• 27:35
  created our bodies for pleasure and she pointed because she
• 27:38
  asked so far were marriage status.
• 27:40
  And when I said that I was single, she pointed me out.
• 27:44
  Melissa, she said, you know you don't have permission to talk in
• 27:48
  the church. I said, who do I need permission
• 27:52
  from? If God gave me my mouth, I'm
• 27:55
  going to use it. Yeah, and get rid of those
• 27:58
  stigmas because so much, I'm glad you brought these, so many
• 28:01
  faith communities, Christianity one of them, other faith
• 28:04
  communities as well, have these stipulations around women's
• 28:08
  bodies and how they feel about themselves and what's
• 28:10
  appropriate, what's acceptable to do and number on our
• 28:15
  emotional health, our sexual health, our ability to connect
• 28:19
  in our relationship with ourselves, that it's so
• 28:23
  important we dismantle and unlearn and relearn what's
• 28:27
  actually true about that. It is.
• 28:30
  It is, yeah. So we have to be able to have
• 28:33
  more positive view of our body so we can fully be free and be
• 28:39
  able to express ourselves in healthy ways.
• 28:43
  Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. So good.
• 28:45
  All right, I told you we were going to come back to this.
• 28:49
  Accepting the layered aspects of ourselves.
• 28:52
  This layers journey is a very component, important component
• 28:56
  in your work, but also for you personally, an important
• 28:59
  component of, you know, accepting all those pieces and
• 29:02
  parts of our stories. Some we love, some we don't love
• 29:06
  with the importance of coming to that.
• 29:09
  For me, it was curiosity over judgement.
• 29:11
  I had to get curious rather than judge mental about those spaces
• 29:16
  and places in my life where I had shame, where I was like, I
• 29:19
  can't believe I stayed in that relationship for 3 1/2 years.
• 29:22
  OK, well go back to your 18 year old self and be get curious
• 29:28
  about where she was at that point in her life.
• 29:30
  The examples that she had seen, what had been modeled to her,
• 29:34
  what had been taught to her, what she how she felt about
• 29:37
  herself and how this relationship came into her life
• 29:42
  in a time where a lot of there's a lot of vulnerability
• 29:46
  happening. And given where she was, you
• 29:49
  know, So I had to get curious about that rather than be like,
• 29:51
  Oh my gosh, that was so stupid. I can't believe I did that.
• 29:54
  No, you were where you worth the time made sense.
• 29:58
  It took me years and it was my therapist prompting me to.
• 30:01
  She's like, I want you to go back to your 18 year old self
• 30:04
  and get curious rather than judgmental and come back and
• 30:08
  acknowledge so you can get to a point of acknowledgement with
• 30:11
  that layer that you don't. You don't love it because you
• 30:14
  don't carry shame around it anymore.
• 30:15
  You're able to release that from yourself and forgive yourself
• 30:18
  and not say those unkind words to yourself about that anymore.
• 30:25
  So, so talk to me about your layers journey and how that's
• 30:29
  impacted your ability to show up for yourself as well as in this
• 30:32
  work you do. I think it was a lot of self
• 30:36
  compassion and realizing that I was possibly maybe seeking
• 30:46
  approval from others that I did not need and that I needed to be
• 30:52
  able to only seek God's approval and that I do not need the
• 30:57
  approval of, of others because who, why are they that
• 31:02
  important? So kind of taking a step
• 31:05
  backwards and realizing that some things that were that I,
• 31:10
  some of the experiences that I had were experiences that allow
• 31:15
  me to how to pull to this area in terms of being aware of, of
• 31:22
  certain things. Because I think one of the main
• 31:24
  reasons why, besides helping others with shame and guilt was
• 31:29
  the the sorry. One of the main reasons why I
• 31:32
  was interested in helping others with sexual abuse, but was also
• 31:40
  because of the shame and guilt that a lot of people feel felt
• 31:44
  with sexuality and spirituality. Yeah, for to help people
• 31:50
  understand the importance of pleasure.
• 31:52
  So, and that pleasure is truly healing.
• 31:56
  Yeah. But when we think of pleasure,
• 31:59
  people always think about the sexual pleasures and that and
• 32:04
  that, and they don't tap into all the other pleasures that we
• 32:08
  are neglecting and not really focusing on.
• 32:12
  So realizing that boundaries are important in every way, but
• 32:17
  understanding that it's OK to receive and give pleasure.
• 32:22
  Yeah, I think that's such a I'm so glad you brought that up.
• 32:26
  I've talked about this with Fanny before.
• 32:28
  She uses an example of she's like pleasure might look like
• 32:31
  just enjoying that piece of chocolate that's that favorite
• 32:35
  food taste, chewing it slowly, tasty and all the flavors, you
• 32:42
  know, having that full experience instead of rushing
• 32:44
  through it. It might look like going outside
• 32:47
  and breathing in the air and letting the sun fall on your
• 32:50
  face and just fully being present in that moment.
• 32:53
  There's so many ways that pleasure can show up for us and
• 32:57
  being able to access those areas of pleasure only enhances our
• 33:02
  area to access those other areas of pleasure that maybe are more
• 33:05
  intimate. But that's really where the
• 33:07
  trust peace comes in and the feeling safe peace comes in.
• 33:11
  I mean, there's so so many pieces and components, but to
• 33:13
  first understand fully understand all the components of
• 33:17
  pleasure. Pleasure is is a wonderful idea
• 33:23
  that people need to be able to to tap into because it gives
• 33:28
  them the freedom to truly express themselves and to
• 33:32
  connect with others. Yeah.
• 33:35
  That's when we truly feel alive. Yes, yeah, we were built for
• 33:40
  that kind of connection, you know, and, and to be able to
• 33:44
  feel, talk to me about the the role that safety plays in this
• 33:48
  like safety in our nervous systems and, and talk to me
• 33:51
  about that piece. So Melissa, we have two main, 2
• 33:56
  very main and basic needs. One is to connect and one is to
• 34:01
  be safe. The question I have for you is
• 34:05
  which one you think comes first? Well, I think it's to be safe
• 34:09
  because we're going to have a hard time connecting if we're
• 34:11
  not feeling safe. Absolutely, oftentimes, you
• 34:16
  know, we have the desire to connect and a lot of times when
• 34:21
  individuals are not finding the sexual experiences to be
• 34:26
  pleasurable, it's because they never felt emotionally safe or
• 34:31
  trusted that partner in the 1st place.
• 34:35
  So he's going back to tap into the why is it that we are not
• 34:39
  feeling safe? Maybe we need to create these
• 34:42
  barriers around who we are letting in to make sure that we
• 34:47
  are feeling safe first before we connect with these people.
• 34:51
  And if you don't feel safe, there's a reason maybe they're
• 34:56
  they're not safe people for you to connect with.
• 35:00
  Sure. So you could be free to connect
• 35:02
  with others. Yeah.
• 35:03
  So safety is very important, emotional safety.
• 35:07
  This is something that we focus so much about, allowing couples
• 35:11
  to understand that your words and your touch is so important
• 35:15
  to create those those bridges and not barriers.
• 35:20
  Oh, I like that. I love that bridges, please,
• 35:23
  that bridges. And so much too.
• 35:25
  I wonder how much is important it is to know each other's
• 35:29
  stories so you can understand where they've come from and
• 35:33
  where these connects and disconnects might be happening.
• 35:37
  Does that play a role too? Absolutely, but then you have to
• 35:40
  be safe to be transparent and open.
• 35:45
  So, so it's knowing your partner, knowing that they are
• 35:49
  emotionally available, making sure that they are able to to
• 35:54
  respond in kind and loving ways that they don't injure you when
• 35:58
  you share something that's been traumatic or minimize it or even
• 36:02
  blame you for what would you experience?
• 36:07
  So that could be a set back in itself.
• 36:10
  Sure, sure. And another trauma really,
• 36:13
  because it's just reinforcing that that false narrative you
• 36:16
  already have about yourself. But I mean, I think it's so, you
• 36:20
  know, hurt people, whether they mean to or not, hurt people hurt
• 36:23
  people because they don't have the tools and resources to know
• 36:28
  how to operate in a healthy way. No they don't and that's why I
• 36:32
  created my workbook. It's called Touch, Talk, Trust,
• 36:37
  Nice to transform your intimacy. So the book captures different
• 36:45
  scenarios, not just the Talk, Touch, trust piece and how it's
• 36:49
  implemented that you can show it through different, different
• 36:53
  ways that we connect. Because when we think of
• 36:56
  intimacy, oftentimes people only think of sex.
• 36:59
  But there's so many different forms and layers of intimacy
• 37:02
  that we need to tap into. But then we also talk about ways
• 37:06
  in which our intimacy is interrupted if we have an
• 37:09
  illness during the change during perimenopause and menopause, how
• 37:15
  that's different for relationships, how intimacy
• 37:19
  changes during infertility or childbirth.
• 37:23
  You know, parents struggling to take to create that balance.
• 37:27
  Yeah, yeah. That's what's such a good point
• 37:30
  because I've, I've had women on here that have gone through
• 37:33
  infertility journeys or, and also, you know, others that have
• 37:37
  had you miscarriage and those kinds of things.
• 37:40
  And it becomes very difficult when you have to time things
• 37:45
  according to in your body where, OK, this is the best chance we
• 37:49
  have to create, you know, a conception here and keeping
• 37:54
  things feeling authentic and not, you know, medicinal.
• 37:58
  And, you know, I, you know what I mean.
• 38:01
  I mean so I. I definitely know what I mean,
• 38:03
  Melissa. We're still trying to to have
• 38:05
  our our addition to the family. And it's one thing that I've had
• 38:09
  to really make sure is that it's not about just us having a baby,
• 38:16
  but it's about us truly connecting and just feeling that
• 38:19
  pleasure with each other and that that's always important.
• 38:23
  So it doesn't become a mechanical act, but it's an act
• 38:29
  of. Love, right?
• 38:31
  Yeah, absolutely. There's so many complexities to
• 38:34
  it, which is why your work is so important.
• 38:37
  I mean, we've just tapped into a few.
• 38:39
  I love the name, though. It's like the three TS that
• 38:42
  you've got there with your with your workbook.
• 38:44
  And I can't wait for people to have access to this because
• 38:47
  these are important things to talk about.
• 38:49
  These are important things to stay connected on.
• 38:52
  So many times we'll kind of push these things aside and be like,
• 38:57
  you know, and it, but if we address them, we have tools for
• 39:00
  them. We have resources and and we
• 39:03
  have that open communication going on.
• 39:05
  Like this thing's happening with my body right now.
• 39:08
  It has nothing to do with you. Exactly.
• 39:12
  You know, failing safe. It's not an I just need to let
• 39:14
  you know. I mean, when I had our first
• 39:16
  daughter, I tore like crazy it and I just it did, you know, I
• 39:24
  don't need to go on all the deal, all the stuff with that.
• 39:27
  So I was injured down there for a while.
• 39:30
  I had stitches and any kind of contact for gosh, 4 1/2 five
• 39:36
  months after I had her was painful.
• 39:39
  That was difficult. That was difficult because I
• 39:43
  couldn't connect with and my husband and I were used to
• 39:46
  connecting in a certain way. And he's like, I'm like, it is
• 39:49
  not you. It is nothing to do with you.
• 39:51
  I just literally there's a heal. I need to heal.
• 39:55
  And this is just taking a while. And, and so I be, but being able
• 39:59
  to because there was that like I, I think there's something
• 40:02
  wrong. I don't know, you know.
• 40:04
  And so those things, those things happen.
• 40:06
  And a lot of people feel as if they are broken.
• 40:09
  And it's, yeah, just trying to change the narrative.
• 40:11
  No, no, no, you're not broken. This happens that you're not
• 40:15
  alone. Other women, other couples
• 40:18
  experience this, but you could get through it together.
• 40:21
  So the book is I have the information, but then I also
• 40:25
  have reflection, personal reflection Post that you are
• 40:28
  able to ask yourself some questions.
• 40:31
  So you're giving yourself a chance to really be able to see
• 40:34
  what it is that you're thinking and feeling in that moment.
• 40:37
  And then you have a couple discussions that you're sharing
• 40:39
  together. And before the end of the
• 40:42
  chapter, there's always a connection challenge, something
• 40:46
  that you're doing in real time to connect each other.
• 40:51
  Oh, wow, yeah. And I, you know, one last I know
• 40:53
  I've really drove into this on the layers side because these
• 40:56
  are all part of our layers and things that impact our
• 40:58
  relationships, but also to you that our words matter.
• 41:02
  How we interact with each other earlier in the day matters.
• 41:06
  You know, those little things, those little pieces impact, you
• 41:11
  know how connected we want to be later on.
• 41:14
  So thinking about those things too.
• 41:16
  Setting the mood doesn't starts, you know, at 10:00 when the
• 41:19
  baby's down. Setting the mood starts maybe
• 41:22
  the night before. What can I do to help you?
• 41:26
  Yeah. Asking, checking in.
• 41:28
  How do you feel? Sharing appreciation.
• 41:31
  I see that this is this. This change is different.
• 41:34
  But I'm here. We are going to work together
• 41:38
  knowing that we are a team that also helps That's that's really
• 41:42
  sexy that I think that's where it's sexy.
• 41:46
  That is and it's intimacy, it's showing, you know, care and
• 41:51
  compassion and that all builds those, those links.
• 41:54
  I thank you so much for that. That was so good.
• 41:56
  I am so happy that we that we dove into that.
• 41:59
  This is such a great resource for couples to have.
• 42:02
  All right, in living out feel, finding empowerment, embracing
• 42:07
  layers which which you do so beautifully and you've
• 42:10
  articulated so well. Talk to me about the impact that
• 42:14
  has had on your relationship with yourself as well as your
• 42:18
  relationship with other people. I would say that it helps me to
• 42:26
  be authentic, to be to be kind, to be compassionate because I'm
• 42:35
  first compassionate with myself. So I'm able to to share that
• 42:38
  with others. Realizing that we are all human
• 42:42
  and that we can learn from our experiences and that we could
• 42:45
  bounce back and be more resilient.
• 42:49
  Yeah, I love that so much. That's so good.
• 42:51
  I have to ask this question. You don't have to answer it, but
• 42:54
  I'm so curious when you met your husband, how do I mean it?
• 42:58
  How do you it's, you know, what's the ice burger to say?
• 43:01
  So what do you do for a living? Well, I'm a sex therapist and
• 43:04
  it's like. The joke, the joke is, and he
• 43:07
  says that's not what happened, but we met him online and we, it
• 43:14
  was so funny like a week. We kept on talking.
• 43:18
  I, I shared with him that I was a sex therapist.
• 43:21
  And then I said I think I need to let him know that I don't
• 43:24
  have sex with clients. And I, I remember I said it.
• 43:27
  I said, you know, I don't have sex with classic.
• 43:29
  Oh, yeah, thanks for letting me know because I was wondering.
• 43:32
  And now I said he's like, I knew better.
• 43:35
  I said really, really. You did say thanks for letting
• 43:40
  me know because I wonder. Oh.
• 43:46
  My gosh. But Melissa, I'll tell you this,
• 43:48
  he proposed in five weeks, so I guess he wanted to know.
• 43:53
  He was like, all right, Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:58
  And she knows how this is all supposed to go.
• 44:00
  So hey, I mean, good dance. Oh, my God.
• 44:03
  Thank you so much for that. I was like, yeah.
• 44:06
  I wonder what that first conversation was like.
• 44:08
  That's so hilarious. Thank you so much.
• 44:09
  All right, we are down to our rapid fire.
• 44:13
  Name 5 activities that nourish you.
• 44:17
  Wow, reading, cooking, playing with my nails.
• 44:22
  I like to paint my nails going on vacations and just spending
• 44:26
  quality time with my loved ones. I love that. 5 words on how you
• 44:32
  want to feel the next six months.
• 44:39
  Oh boy. Melissa, 5.
• 44:43
  Rejuvenated, inspired, satisfied, free,
• 45:13
  always jubilant. I love that.
• 45:17
  That's so good. I knew if you've sat with it for
• 45:19
  many, those are so good. I said I was going to come back
• 45:23
  to this and I have it yet, so I want to.
• 45:25
  I want to revisit your character trait Socks more about that.
• 45:29
  That just made me feel good when you said it.
• 45:32
  So people who know me, my favorite color is pink.
• 45:35
  My wedding colors were pink and pink.
• 45:40
  That's how, that's how feminine I am.
• 45:42
  And people say, oh, hear me, you're so feminine.
• 45:45
  But I I consider myself to be soft because I realized that I
• 45:49
  like to be who cared for in a soft, gentle manner and I treat
• 45:54
  people that way. Even my form of therapy.
• 45:57
  I am supportive with my clients, I am loving and kind to others,
• 46:05
  so I give what I expect back in return.
• 46:09
  But when I say I'm soft, don't think that my softness is
• 46:13
  weakness because myself is not silent.
• 46:16
  Yeah. It's not silent at all, so I
• 46:21
  definitely have my voice and I choose to use it.
• 46:24
  Oh, I love that. I thank you for that.
• 46:27
  That is such a good definition of soft.
• 46:30
  I love how you articulated that. Oh, that's one of my favorite
• 46:33
  things I've ever heard out of a character trait.
• 46:35
  Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 46:36
  Because soft, soft is strong, soft is kind, and it's important
• 46:44
  for us to understand the nuance that we can feel within that.
• 46:50
  And sometimes we will just take something and take it in One
• 46:52
  Direction. I'm like, there's so much more
• 46:54
  in that, but don't limit yourself.
• 46:56
  Yeah. Oh, I love it so much.
• 46:59
  Oh, Karima, this has been so much fun.
• 47:01
  I've loved our conversation. Let people know where they can
• 47:04
  find you and follow you. Sure, you can find me on a new
• 47:08
  reflection for you@gmail.com. You can send me an e-mail.
• 47:12
  You can also look us up at New Reflections Therapeutic
• 47:16
  Services. The website is in New
• 47:19
  reflectionforyou.com and also you could find me on Instagram.
• 47:24
  I post on every Wednesday, my willing Wednesday post, which is
• 47:28
  a little inspirational tidbit to keep you thinking about ways in
• 47:34
  which you can improve your relationship.
• 47:37
  Just asking you, are you willing?
• 47:39
  So that's a new reflection for you on Instagram.
• 47:43
  Thank you so much, Melissa. Absolutely.
• 47:45
  And that's going to all be on our resources page on our
• 47:49
  website at embracinglayers.com. So listeners, you're going to
• 47:52
  have access to all of that. Prema, you are a joy.
• 47:55
  Thank you so much. Thank you and.
• 47:59
  I've enjoyed this so much. You just are.
• 48:02
  I love how you show up in the world so aligned and in belief
• 48:07
  with who you are and what you're about and what your why and your
• 48:10
  values are, how you connect with people.
• 48:13
  We need so much. That's such an important part
• 48:16
  that we need in this world. And you just you're a breath of
• 48:19
  fresh air. And so it's I'm so thankful that
• 48:22
  we crossed paths and we're able to connect listeners.
• 48:27
  Boy, I, I think that think about that character trait this week
• 48:31
  and yourselves that maybe you have a limiting belief around or
• 48:36
  maybe you haven't tapped into and really tap into that.
• 48:40
  Knowing who you are knowing, being able to define yourself
• 48:45
  and connect with because that will allow you to know what
• 48:49
  connects with you, how you can connect with other people, the
• 48:52
  kind of people that feel safe for you if there's so much value
• 48:56
  in all of that. Karima, is there any last
• 48:58
  thoughts you'd like to leave with our listeners?
• 49:02
  Melissa, I just want to say thank you so much for having me
• 49:04
  and that I wish everyone to have a safe, wonderful rest of the
• 49:10
  year and feeling free to express themselves in authentic and
• 49:16
  beautiful ways. So good.
• 49:20
  All right, listeners, that's your take away today.
• 49:22
  Thanks so much for being with us.
• 49:24
  We'll see you next time here on the Field podcast.
• 49:28
  Hello, and thank you so much for being with us today on this
• 49:32
  episode of the Feel podcast. If you would like more
• 49:36
  information on how you can apply these talking points that I
• 49:40
  share with our guests in each episode to your own life, really
• 49:45
  utilize this Feel framework, go to embracinglayers.com, fill out
• 49:50
  our contact form, and let's set up a free 30 minute consultation
• 49:56
  to talk about how you can start living your most authentic,
• 50:00
  organic, healthy, feel fueled life.
• 50:04
  Thanks again for being with us today.
• 50:06
  We'll be back to you soon with another episode here on the Feel
• 50:09
  Podcast.