Latest / Cultural Fluency Makers: Unlocking Business Growth Through Cultural Intelligence / Building a Brand That Feels Like a Friend: White Castle’s Jamie Richardson on Cultural Resonance

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Building a Brand That Feels Like a Friend: White Castle’s Jamie Richardson on Cultural Resonance · Cultural Fluency Makers: Unlocking Business Growth Through Cultural Intelligence

0:49
So on this Tuesday morning, I'm really excited about this episode
0:56
and very much look forward to a really dynamic conversation.
1:00
With me today is someone who has helped shape the marketing of one of
1:06
America's most iconic fast food brands.
1:10
He's a seasoned marketing leader with experience building brand
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loyalty, connecting with consumers, and driving growth in the highly
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competitive restaurant industry.
1:24
He brings a perspective on how legacy brands can stay relevant, evolve with
1:31
changing consumer expectations, and build meaningful connections across generations.
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Not an easy task.
1:42
Chief Marketing Officer of White Castle, Jamie Richardson, welcome to the show
1:48
an honor to be with you today, and I appreciate you using the word season.
1:51
For me, I think the seasoning comes from 100% beef, steam grilled
1:55
on a bed of onions and served up fresh with one perfect pickle.
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So, uh, yeah, seasoning's part of it all, I think
2:01
I love that.
2:02
I love that.
2:03
All right, well, let's go deep.
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Excited to do this with you.
2:06
Um, I always start, Jamie, the same way.
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Same question s- uh, episode after episode because of the importance.
2:17
Um, you know, which is that when we step back and look at America and look at
2:22
our country, um, there's been a pretty, uh, substantial, significant demographic
2:28
landscape change in the last 10, 15 years, whether it's, um, a, uh, more
2:34
diverse country, whether it's Gen Z in the forefront, whether it's subcultures.
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So m- my, my first question to you, uh, Jamie, is how … what, what
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do you see as the role for cultural intelligence or cultural insights for
2:49
consumer companies such as White Castle?
2:52
I think from our perspective a-as a family-owned business that's been around
2:55
for 106 years, it's extremely relevant.
2:58
It's not only relevant, it's essential.
3:00
And I think really, um, there's a dynamism to life in modern times that's
3:05
really been present over the decades.
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I think in today's, um, in today's landscape, it gets accelerated.
3:11
And so being able to lean in on that, uh, a-and really, um, uh, the, the
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things that we, we see around us, it's about really leaning in and being
3:22
immersed and not taking a passive view.
3:25
I think taking an active role in terms of watching, listening, uh, asking good
3:30
questions, and being connected in with the people you want to learn more from.
3:34
So I, I think bringing a natural curiosity to things is so essential
3:38
today, more than it ever has been.
3:40
Um, we might be able to move faster.
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We also wanna be able to u- uh, move forward with a bit
3:45
more wisdom as we do all that.
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So yeah, it's a, it's a fascinating time and great environment
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I, I love the, uh, we also, uh, wanna move maybe slower with
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more wisdom versus just fast.
3:57
It's so important given the state of the union of the marketing
4:02
world, the technology world, AI.
4:04
Um, Jamie, you know, clearly I, I think from the very beginning, deeply
4:09
understanding consumers has always been important in, in marketing organizations
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and in consumer-driven entities.
4:17
Um, given all that's going on, uh, and, and what you just
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talked about, what's hard?
4:23
What, what's challenging here?
4:26
Yeah.
4:26
That's a great question.
4:27
I think one of the harder things is not being quieted by the pace
4:32
of change or feeling overwhelmed, I think, and, and not getting distracted.
4:37
I think first and foremost, you really have to understand enterprise why.
4:42
Why do you exist?
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You know, we have a vision, feed the souls of Craver generations everywhere.
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That's our purpose.
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That's the reason we're here.
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So along the way, if we do that well, good things happen
4:52
from an enterprise perspective.
4:54
But, uh, that, that knowledge and that grounding in terms of knowing
4:58
why you exist and, and what your purpose is, I think is fundamental.
5:02
And otherwise, it's really easy to get distracted.
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It's really easy to look to see what everyone else is
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doing because it feels safer.
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I would argue the least safe thing you can do is copy what someone else
5:14
is doing, because that playbook might work for them, that's not who you are.
5:18
So I think it's about that intimate familiarity with who you are as
5:23
a brand, what you represent to your team members and consumers,
5:27
and using that as your guide.
5:30
Is it, is it hard to understand what consumers want and expect
5:35
Oh,
5:35
out of the brand?
5:37
that's the $64,000 question or the, on your scope and scale, the $6.4
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billion question, whatever it might be.
5:44
I, I think it's hard because, um, it's hard and it's easy at the same time.
5:50
It's hard because if you don't ask the right questions, you're
5:52
not gonna get anything meaningful.
5:53
So it takes enough immersion and familiarity with who your
5:57
brand is to know which questions to ask, and also takes courage.
6:01
You have to be able to look at the things and ask the questions you
6:04
might not want to hear the answer to when you're not hitting the
6:07
mark, when you are falling short.
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And I'd say it's easier than it's ever been because we have more
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available to us to listen intently.
6:15
And it's, to me, not being intimidated by the pace of change, but leaning
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into it to understand how do you harness that as a tool for good.
6:24
And it all starts with brand self-awareness.
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I think that's just the critical part of it
6:29
That's great.
6:29
Ja- Jamie, I, I am, I, I feel honored to be able to be in so
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many conversations like these.
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I, I obviously Collage is clients.
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Um, I moderate roundtables, and we… You know, I always get to
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the place of cultural resonance.
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and, I ask this question, how important is it to win hearts and minds of consumers?
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And, and literally, I, I don't think I've had anybody say, "Eh, eh." It's,
6:54
it's semi, but, you know, everybody goes, "It's essential." My, question
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to you is, for you, what is that?
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What is cultural resonance?
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and, how does a brand become it?
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I think it's when the sign, behind the logo, there's, a friendship that forms
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that's real in terms of you become a part of an individual's life in a way that
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doesn't mean they're thinking about you every second, morning, noon, and night,
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but that when they think about their choices, you bring a smile to their face.
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You've provided a good memory.
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You've provided an invitation if they've never tried you before.
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But it's about how you present yourself to the world in a compelling,
7:35
welcoming manner that sets you apart from the rest of the pack,
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that's distinctive to who you are.
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And to me, uh, that, that resonance falls naturally because
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then you stumble into grace.
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You, you pick up the phone and say yes to the idea that sounds like a
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crazy opportunity, which we've been fortunate to be able to do for decades.
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Uh, in the 1920s, we found a lot of people were taking our food home, so
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we decided, why don't we try something crazy instead of serving it on China
8:00
plates, which we'll continue to do?
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Why don't we let them take a sack home so they can… Uh, I-- We believe
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that in 1928 we invented carryout.
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Nobody was doing that before then.
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And, you know, it's also been,
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Wow
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picking up the phone when someone from Hollywood calls and says they
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have a film about two stoners who spend an evening of misadventure
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that end up at a White Castle.
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I mean, we thought that one was a joke.
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Turns out it was the greatest film never to win an Academy Award.
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"Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle." So I think you stumble on these
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moments where you meet people where they are, and you don't overthink it.
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You just allow your reflexes to kick in like you would if you're
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hanging, uh, after the show or, uh, on the road or wherever you might be.
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It's about, um, being that familiar with who your people are, that
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you can be there for your people
8:45
Jamie, I love this concept of friendship, that you're establishing a friendship.
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Because in order to establish a deep friendship, you gotta, you
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gotta know your friend, right?
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You gotta ask a lot of questions.
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You gotta know your friend.
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You gotta be authentic.
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You gotta, uh… I, I have not heard that one, and I, I, I love that.
9:02
And, and as I think about the brand, I, I think that there's so many places where
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that is actually true, and it comes true.
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And I also love that sort of not overthinking it, um,
9:14
because then it's more natural,
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I heard a, a, a colleague, uh, who worked at a competitor in a, in a setting that,
9:22
uh, you know, was a big setting, and they were in a big panel discussion.
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They said something like, "We love spontaneous things as long as they're
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planned." And I thought, "Oh, that's a little bit paradoxical." So, um, and,
9:32
and we've always come from the school of, uh, if one of our bigger competitors,
9:36
uh, uh, wouldn't do it, maybe we should
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I, I, I love that.
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So, uh, to, to that point, White Castle, White Castle is not
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just a QSR brand, QSR brand.
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It is really a, a cultural institution.
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From pop culture moments like Harold and Kumar to your annual Valentine's
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Day fine dining tradition, you guys have really created a unique space in the
10:06
consumer's mindset and, and, and lives.
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How do you define cultural fluency when managing a brand that relies heavily on
10:16
nostalgia while at the same time trying to pick up Gen Z and Gen Alpha consumers?
10:21
Yeah, I love that question.
10:23
Thank you for that.
10:23
I think part of it is having language that resonates across generations.
10:28
And so for us, that's right at the base of all, uh, Crave-a-Physics, as we
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would call it, and it's the word crave.
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Uh, you know, we launched the What You Crave campaign back in the '90s,
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and today it's Crave Thy Castle.
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So it might take on different expressions that modify over time.
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But I think it's about when you know who you are, um, you can have
10:46
different ways of sharing that.
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I mean, we've got a closet full of different expressions of who we are.
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It doesn't change what's underneath in terms of, um, we're-- we
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believe uniquely empowering.
10:58
Um, we've always provided great value.
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Our founder believed every family, no matter their income, deserved to have a
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meal away from home at least once a week.
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That, that was in 1921 that he believed that.
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So having that great value proposition is part of who we are, but also the
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freedom we provide to be yourself, that you don't have to… Day is amazing.
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Thanks for referencing that.
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Last year, we took over thirty-four thousand reservations for a
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night, an evening of fine dining.
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We changed the name of White Castle for one day from White Castle to Love Castle.
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And, uh, you know, m-marriage proposals were happening, cellos
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were busting out, and it was our thirty-fifth year of celebrating that.
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So, you know, we get to have a lot of fun along the way because we
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don't take ourselves too serious.
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But that's where the resonance comes from in terms of it's relatable,
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and we've expressed it in a way that is unique enough that it's, uh, an
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experience that is, uh, unexpected
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Uh, uh, that, that is an unbelievable story.
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I lo- I love that, the, the thousands and thousands of, uh,
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people celebrating Valentine's, uh,
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It's
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with you guys.
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And I mean, that's really, that's really great.
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So you guys, uh, also organically have roots in really diverse subcultures, which
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by the way, is such a strength today.
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Um, hip hop, late night workers, regional super fans.
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You, you mentioned cravers.
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H- how do you separate authentic cultural passions from surface level
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marketing trends when deciding which, which audiences, which segments,
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which communities to lean into?
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I, I appreciate earlier you referenced, um, you know, listening.
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And, and I think what we've discovered is anyone can ask a lot of questions,
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but listening and hearing and responding to what, um, you're told and, and
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the, the insights you discover, that makes all the difference in the world.
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So we have a great friendship in the fashion community with the
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designer Telfar, who designed our 100th birthday uniforms.
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And that came about because, uh, a sponsor canceled on them all the way back
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in 2016, and they called our 800 line saying-- because they liked White Castle,
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just seeing if we might be interested.
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Not only did we call them back, we were able to sponsor that Fashion Week show
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for Telfar, which catapulted he and his team to become the CFDA Fashion
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Fund Award winner three years later.
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And so those are the stories that to us are real because
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you can't make that stuff up.
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You can't, um, you know, uh, dip into a, a lengthy proposal and always
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find that, that moment of truth.
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It's really about how do you, um, listen and act and take some risk.
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And believe me, we've had things that have gone sideways, seemed
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like a good idea at the time, but didn't quite work out like we hoped.
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But it's also having the courage to try and, and listen intently and
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don't try to be something you're not.
13:57
Um, you know, it, it, it doesn't-- if it doesn't ring true, and this
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isn't just true for Gen Z and Gen Alpha, this is true for all of us.
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It-- you know when something's discordant, when someone's trying to
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pretend to be something they're not.
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And just as in life, same for brands.
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If you're inauthentic, you're not gonna make it
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Jamie, you, you make it sound so, uh, simple and so seamless,
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you know, so effortless.
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Um, and yet we know that to, to, to win in this marketplace, it's highly competitive
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and you have to have all sorts of signals.
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Do you feel like you guys have a good engine, an insights engine of
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sorts from coming from different sources to understand all of
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these sort of consumer voices?
14:46
Yeah, I do.
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And I, I don't think we always have.
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I think it's, it's, um, like anything, it's gone in peaks
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and valleys over the years.
14:52
Um, you know, our industry has been hit hard at different moments in time, and
14:57
candidly, those kinds of investments are the easiest to cancel out of first
15:02
because they're… they seem like, "Oh, we're not hearing anything new,"
15:06
or… But the fact of the matter is, we believe rigor and good discipline and
15:11
constantly going back to ask the next question is what leads to the truths that
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you can't anticipate, and that's where those big breakthroughs come through.
15:19
To your point, it isn't easy.
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I mean, if it were, then we'd all be at parity and, you know, uh, there'd
15:25
be compound growth in the double digits year after year after year.
15:28
I guess that's the definition of compound growth.
15:30
Anyway, uh, I think, uh, I think it is around, um, having a belief that's real.
15:36
We're fortunate.
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W- we love our business model.
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We know it's not the best model for everybody.
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There-- We have great respect for our colleagues who are publicly traded.
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We happen to be family-owned, so we have the benefit of being able to take a longer
15:50
view and to look at things through the lens of what's that mean for three years
15:54
from now versus three weeks from now?
15:57
Um, know, there are drawbacks to being privately held and family-owned.
16:02
You know, we don't have access to Wall Street, uh, investors the same
16:06
way that some of our competitors.
16:07
At the same time, we wouldn't trade what we have for anything.
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We believe it allows us to make the best decisions for the long
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haul, even if short-term that means some sacrifices here and there to
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get to the bigger goal over time
16:21
That seems to be a-- I think it's very freeing.
16:24
Um, uh, you know, it's a big difference
16:27
And,
16:28
and I think it's, it's, yeah
16:29
is that means we have to hold ourselves accountable, 'cause we're not gonna
16:32
have the external pressures the same way that maybe some of our competitors do.
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if we create our own culture of accountability and know why we're
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doing this for all the right reasons, we have 9,000 team members who are, we
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believe, some of the best in the world.
16:45
Um, you know, we've been certified a great place to work for the sixth
16:48
year in a row, and just got named to Fortune's list as the 11th best
16:52
retailer to work for in all the
16:54
Wow
16:54
and we're small, you know.
16:56
And there's some big, big competitors on there, and they're great, but it's
16:59
a, it's… And I think we're the only fast food restaurant chain that I can
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think of offhand that is on that list.
17:04
So we're really fortunate to be in that mix and… But we don't take
17:08
it lightly, and a big part of that is being rigorous about, um, our
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purpose and following through on it
17:16
so you, you, you were recently named CMO after decades of
17:21
leadership at White Castle.
17:22
Um, I'm, I'm curious, as you come into, into playing that role knowing
17:27
the organization so well, which I'm sure it's great 'cause it's not day
17:31
one, but, but also in some ways it's hard to think differently potentially
17:36
having been there for so long.
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Do you, do you have a framework that you think about, um, as you think
17:42
about that role coming in and, and really, uh, navigating the, uh, the
17:49
history but also having to change given the world we're living in today?
17:55
Well, I, I think it's like the, the Greek playwright who, uh, uh,
17:59
somebody first said that you can never step in the same river twice.
18:02
And I think if you embrace the idea that change is constant, then maybe there are
18:05
certain truths about the enterprise or the brand, but that the landscape's changing.
18:11
That's, to me, the most important thing.
18:13
And I am really, really fortunate to work with some really incredibly cool
18:17
and smart people, and they're kind.
18:19
And so my colleagues, um, you know, our CFO and our, our team and our head
18:26
of operations, we meet weekly, uh, and talk about what happened this past week.
18:31
And we look at sales, and we-- it, it's the most invigorating meeting
18:34
because we're really challenging each other and saying, "Hey, do we need
18:38
to do this sooner? Is that the right promotion for this timeframe? What's
18:41
gonna happen next?" And I think it might be easy and passive if we didn't
18:46
have those kind of conversations.
18:47
But I think, um, yes, longevity can be a blessing and a curse.
18:52
For me, I feel really fortunate to be able to be at a place I love
18:55
and care passionately about, and also to work with-- we-- at, at
18:59
Ohio State down the street from us, they've got what they call TBBL.
19:02
Uh, we've got TBBL for marketing, and it doesn't mean
19:05
the best damn band in the land.
19:06
It means the best damn brand builders in the land, which is
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a big goal we're aspiring to.
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And I have some of the greatest people I get to work with every day.
19:14
They teach me, they challenge me, and to be able to walk side by side
19:17
with them and watch their dreams come true as they achieve more and more,
19:20
that's what feeds my soul every day
19:22
Jamie, that's, um, that's what I would call brand love.
19:26
And, and, and you can feel it on this side of the, uh, of the screen.
19:31
Uh, and, and to be able to steward a brand and feel that, whoa,
19:37
that's competitive advantage.
19:39
you very much
19:40
Um, so, you know, uh, it's taken us almost 20 minutes, and here we go, AI.
19:48
It's good that it wasn't the first two minutes.
19:50
Um, so, you know, y- it's interesting 'cause y- you guys have been
19:54
an early adopter of technology, you know, in different ways.
19:59
Uh, kitchen robotics, AI drive-through ordering systems.
20:04
Um, h- how do you ensure that bringing AI into the customer journey today,
20:11
which every company's trying to figure out what it means for them, enhances
20:16
the soul of the brand that you so much talk about rather than cold scaling it?
20:24
That's a great question.
20:26
Uh, there's a great poem by Walt Whitman called, uh, "When I Heard the Learned
20:30
Astronomer." And, uh, the, the highlight and the headline and the takeaway from
20:34
the poem is this kid's in astronomy class, and then, you know, it's just
20:37
like all these numbers and charts and, you know, until finally he's just, like,
20:41
overwhelmed and he walks out and looks up in perfect silence at the stars.
20:45
And I think for us, it's around the recognition that there are all these
20:50
incredible tools, and it's important that we know their capacity and what
20:54
they can do, but not to lose sight of the faces behind the numbers.
20:58
That we're looking at behavior and how people respond en masse, you know,
21:02
with tens of thousands of transactions and, you know, all these different
21:07
data points are really important because we can see trends and patterns.
21:12
really important we understand the faces behind those numbers, the
21:16
individuals who are impacted, and how it really works for them or not.
21:20
So what I would say is our, our framework's pretty
21:22
simple, and it's three things.
21:25
of all, just because you can do something necessarily mean you should do something.
21:30
Secondly, does this thing we're thinking about doing or trying or learning
21:35
from, does it help our team members?
21:38
Does it empower them to make their life better, easier,
21:41
something that if they could vote, they'd say, "Yeah, let's do it"?
21:44
And thirdly, is it best for our customers?
21:47
And there's not a big difference in weighting, but all three of
21:50
those kind of form a framework that once you've determined, yeah, you
21:54
know, we're not just doing this because it seems like a, a me too.
21:57
We're not jumping into the fray because we feel like, um, we're gonna be, um, seen
22:03
as less than if we, if we don't do it.
22:06
That should never be a reason.
22:07
It should be based on your business opportunity and what
22:09
you think it can do for you.
22:10
And then really digging into is it really better for team members, and how?
22:16
Is it really better for consumers, and how?
22:18
And, you know, that's where we have the benefit of taking a long view is we,
22:23
we test and learn a lot and, uh, that's been really, really wonderful for us.
22:28
That's great.
22:29
Um, uh, i- in the realm of new emerging spaces, you know, there's, um, as
22:35
I mentioned, I think I mentioned to you before we started, I just
22:38
came back from the ANA, uh, um, uh, masters conference in, uh, in Orlando.
22:45
And as you can imagine, so much talk about, you know, AI everywhere, agentic
22:50
commerce and automated execution and, you know, all sorts of things.
22:54
One interesting space emerging also is synthetic, that of synthetic
22:58
audiences, you know, which is, which is the, the, um, development of digital
23:03
twins, uh, as a way to more quickly and efficiently get to understand
23:10
consumers and their digital twins.
23:13
Um, I'm, I'm curious your perspective on it.
23:16
Have you guys, uh, uh, uh, uh, used that technology in any way, and, and what are
23:23
you thinking about in, in this space?
23:25
Well, I think we're in an age of possibility, and there's so much,
23:29
um, developing very, very quickly that I think, um, the space we're
23:33
in right now is let's lean in and understand what that looks like.
23:36
And let's also be critical thinkers about are there trade-offs?
23:40
What would those trade-offs look like?
23:41
And not just be, uh, lulled into a sense of press go immediately,
23:48
um, because it seems faster and better if it's not accurate.
23:52
And I, I think a question for us is always, is it forward-looking or
23:58
is it looking over past behavior?
23:59
Because there's so much change and opportunity that's going
24:02
to shape how consumers tomorrow respond a little bit differently
24:05
than they might have last week.
24:07
How are we adjusting to that and getting ready for it?
24:09
So we, we've just put a toe in.
24:11
We haven't gone super deep yet.
24:12
We're, uh, plugged in, alert, aware, and, um, we're never gonna turn away
24:17
from something that helps us our core mission of feeding the souls
24:22
and creating memorable moments.
24:24
Yes.
24:24
Yes.
24:25
Thank you, Jamie.
24:25
You know, it's interesting 'cause we- we're on our own, at Kollage, our own
24:29
journey and, um, you know, any, any… E- every time I talk to folks about synthetic
24:35
audiences, I think the concern that comes up is it's good for the average,
24:41
but winning consumers lies in nuance, not re- it lies in de-averaging, not
24:47
the average, not right, not the mean.
24:49
And so in being a cultural intelligence company, it's all about the nuance.
24:54
No,
24:54
so w- we are experimenting with culturally intelligent digital twins, and it's
25:01
a fascinating endeavor and lots of lessons learned and, and validations.
25:06
So it's a fun, you know, I love innovation, so it's a fun, it's a, it's
25:11
a fun, uh, journey and, and process.
25:13
So, um, moving on to a little bit of, of marketing.
25:18
You know, White- White Castle has a unique dual footprint, uh, is my understanding.
25:23
Uh, you guys, obviously you have brick-and-mortar restaurants alongside a
25:27
massive presence in retail freezer aisles.
25:32
Uh, h- how, how do consumer insights differ between somebody, you
25:38
know, buying sliders at 2:00 a.m.
25:40
in a drive-through versus picking up a box at the grocery store?
25:45
Um, and, and, and how do they shape your in- your, your, your
25:49
marketing strategy and approach?
25:51
Uh, thank you so much for asking me that question.
25:53
So yeah, we've had, uh, we're about to celebrate 40 years of being in
25:57
the consumer packaged goods business.
25:59
We were the first fast food restaurant to be in the freezer aisle anywhere,
26:02
and it's been an incredible ride for us.
26:04
So we're in all 50 states.
26:06
Uh, we have great partners in that space.
26:08
Uh, your local grocer probably has them in their freezer aisle for sure.
26:11
And, um, that's a business we nourish, and we own and operate our own
26:15
retail food plants where we assemble those sandwiches and ship them out.
26:18
So we didn't license it.
26:19
This is part of who we are, and it's increasingly an
26:22
important part of our business.
26:23
It's over 25% of our revenue.
26:25
Uh, and you know, so it's something we really are honored to be part of.
26:30
Um, for us it's about, again, you mentioned in our last,
26:33
uh, uh, exchange, uh, nuances.
26:36
They're nuances.
26:37
I mean, there's so many, uh, crossover elements, you know.
26:39
So we tend to do pretty well in geographies where
26:43
we also have restaurants.
26:44
We also have DMAs around the country where there isn't a White Castle
26:47
within 400 miles, and we're just killing it in the freezer aisle.
26:51
You know, we're, we can't keep up.
26:53
It's going so well.
26:54
So, um, what we've discovered is that the physical properties of
26:58
product are differentiating in terms of the quality and the value.
27:02
So the quality of 100% beef and the unique preparation process.
27:06
We make these sliders in the retail food plants the same
27:08
way we do in the restaurant.
27:10
We put the onions down, 100% beef patty, the bun goes on top.
27:14
It all steams together to meld into this perfect blend of flavor.
27:17
You're making me hungry, man.
27:18
I know what I'm having for lunch now.
27:20
Um, same as I do every day.
27:21
But, um, what's, what's so fun about it is that we can understand what
27:26
problem are we trying to solve?
27:27
What friction are we trying to remove from that person who
27:30
we're trying to empower and help?
27:32
And it might be more likely in the grocery freezer aisle, it might be mom who's the
27:36
shopper, and she's got a hungry eighth grade football player who's gonna be home,
27:41
uh, you know, two hours before dinner and needs something to tide him over.
27:45
Um, or it could be something where she's gonna, you know, take that six-pack
27:49
or that 16 count and it's gonna be the center of the plate for the family.
27:53
So the occasions differ a little bit.
27:55
just as great at late night at 2:00 a.m. in your, in your kitchen
27:59
out of the microwave as they are through the drive-through.
28:01
So we think that availability side of things, um, uh, I love the,
28:06
the, the book, How Brands Grow.
28:08
And you know, for us, being more available has been a big win.
28:11
And so we're just really excited about where our retail team is heading.
28:15
We've got the best retail sales team in, I think, the Western
28:18
Hemisphere, if not the world.
28:19
I know I might be biased, but they've got a crackerjack leader who's taken
28:23
them to new heights, and it's just fun to see them do so many great things
28:28
It's amazing.
28:29
I mean, it's amazing to think that that began so many years ago and it, it
28:33
seems so brilliant and differentiating
28:36
you'll love this story.
28:37
The way it started, our, uh, third-generation family leader and
28:41
CEO, Bill Ingram, at the time was visiting restaurants, and he was at
28:45
a restaurant in New York, and he saw people taking big sacks of sliders home.
28:49
He said, "You having a party or something?" They go, "Oh, no, no, no, no.
28:53
We put these in our freezer." He said, "What?" And they said, "Oh,
28:56
no, we got this new appliance.
28:58
It's called a microwave oven.
28:59
These reheat really good in those." And Bill didn't just walk past
29:03
this as great consumer insight.
29:04
He started reaching out, I won't say their name, some of the biggest
29:07
CPG brands in the world to see if we could license it to them.
29:10
They all laughed at him.
29:11
They said, "Oh, you'll never be able to sell fast food in grocery
29:14
stores." And thank goodness he didn't listen, and we just did it ourselves.
29:18
And we stumbled into incredible success by having that be
29:22
part of our business overall.
29:25
Amazing.
29:26
So, uh, Jamie, this is the last question on the business side, and
29:29
then we'll get a little, uh, personal to get this thing closed out.
29:33
Um, so you have the Cravers Hall of Fame and traditions where customers get married
29:39
in your restaurants, as you discussed.
29:42
Gosh, what, what can enterprise marketers learn from White Castle about
29:47
converting casual buyers into lifelong brand advocates, which is everybody's
29:55
dream in the consumer business world?
29:58
the Cravers Hall of Fame is something that probably best, uh, uh, just
30:02
epitomizes that and brings it to life.
30:04
And I think it is around celebrating with them to get beyond the functional,
30:09
um, benefits you provide and think about the emotional benefits you provide.
30:13
How do you connect with someone in a way that rewards them, that, that gives them
30:17
that, that, that smile that they need, uh, that laugh, that good moment that
30:23
sticks with them and encourages them to do it not just and then, but to have
30:29
it become part of their own identity.
30:30
And so we're really incredibly fortunate to have that.
30:33
Uh, Cravers Hall of Fame, many are called, few are chosen.
30:36
It is easier to get into Harvard than it is the Cravers Hall of Fame.
30:40
We've done the math.
30:41
And, uh, every year, uh, each class has its own unique, distinctive
30:45
character and characters.
30:47
And, uh, they come from all walks of life from all over the country, and
30:50
the one thing they have in common is their shared love of White Castle.
30:54
They come here to Columbus, Ohio, where we induct them in a big ceremony,
30:58
and they enter as absolute strangers.
31:00
They leave as the best of friends.
31:02
So it's been really… And we, we had a wedding proposal at one induction.
31:05
Uh, they didn't know each other coming in.
31:07
The couple was being inducted and, uh, and they were in medieval garb,
31:11
very fitting for a castle motif.
31:13
And Drew took a knee and asked Jamie to marry him, and thankfully, in
31:16
front of 650 people, she said yes.
31:18
So, um, but I think, I think being able to share moments and being able to plug
31:22
into what's emotionally resonating, uh, what, what do you do that, um,
31:27
resonates emotionally with the people you're trying to connect with every day?
31:31
I mean, it's this recurring theme, Jamie, you know, which
31:34
is functional is not enough.
31:37
You know, we call it cultural resonance.
31:40
Uh, you just called it emotional, uh, resonance.
31:44
And, uh, and in order to develop free-- deep friendships, emotions is really what,
31:50
what's at center in real life, in-- right?
31:53
Like, and, and that's, uh, that's v-very clearly said, and I, and I love…
31:58
There's so much, um, there's so much learning here, so thank you.
32:02
A, a
32:02
Thank you for that.
32:03
they're needed the most, and that's who we hope to be for
32:06
all of our customers, whether
32:07
Right
32:07
because they got the hunger pangs at lunch, whether they're out on the road
32:10
and it's late night, or they're home after a long road trip and they're
32:14
so thankful they got that six-pack of cheese sliders in their freezer
32:17
So let's, let's, uh, close this out with a few personal questions.
32:21
Uh, Jamie, I think I can even guess based on our last, uh, um, sort of 30 minutes
32:28
of conversation, what inspires you?
32:31
What motivates you every day to do what you do?
32:33
Uh, you know, I, I think for me, my wife and I are both, uh, people of faith, and I
32:37
think that's been, uh, fundamental for us.
32:39
Uh, we're, we're blessed to have five kids, and so to watch them, uh, you know,
32:44
they range in age from 17 to 26, so to watch them, uh, grow to be the people
32:48
God created them to be is something that's been really special for us.
32:51
And I think we find a lot of renewal in that.
32:53
I think for us, that's a purpose in terms of what can we do, uh, for each
32:58
person that we encounter to, to, to hopefully be a light and to, to benefit
33:02
from the light they give back to us
33:04
It's wonderful.
33:04
Um, and then the last question, and this is really geared for the younger
33:09
audience, uh, that listens, uh, to us.
33:13
If you could travel back in time and give your 20-year-old
33:16
self advice, what would that be?
33:20
I think it would be to, to, um, fight the good fight for the long haul.
33:25
Uh, to not be discouraged by-- take a longer view because,
33:28
uh, a-and enjoy the journey.
33:30
I, I think early on for me, I was in such a hurry, you know, that, uh, I
33:34
didn't savor the moments, uh, that were those successes and fun things
33:40
that happened and the failures.
33:41
Uh, you know, I, I'd fret too much about the failures and not look at it as,
33:46
ooh, this is a chance to learn and grow.
33:48
Uh, and I think as time has gone on, uh, one of the things I've learned to
33:52
appreciate is some of those things that on the surface seem to go sideways or
33:56
not like I had mapped it all out in my head, uh, were some of the greatest, best
34:01
things that ever could have happened.
34:03
So I think a willingness to, um, trust, um, your abilities to know that whatever
34:09
brought you to this moment in time is gonna power you to even greater things
34:12
as time goes on, and to believe in yourself, believe in your ability to
34:15
make a difference and find ways to do it
34:17
it's life, right?
34:18
It's li- it's life.
34:19
It's not a, it's not the storybook, uh, you know, perfect storybook.
34:24
It's life, and that requires resilience, but also joy and, and enjoying, you know,
34:30
the, the, the, the goods and the bads.
34:33
Jamie, you, you've been such an incredible guest and, and, and
34:36
so, so much gratitude for you.
34:39
Thank you for sharing of your journey, of your, uh, lessons learned and
34:45
takeaways, and really so much, um, there, there, there's so much gold
34:50
here, so, so really appreciate it
34:51
Oh, thank you so much.
34:52
Uh, crave on, my friend.
34:54
We'll see you at the drive-through or your local grocer's freezer aisle
34:58
Fantastic.
34:59
Thanks again.
35:00
Have a great day
35:01
my friend