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🎧 Brands, please get better at reading the room · Open Tabs

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to today's OpenTabs,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: our twice-weekly Substack Live,
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: where we talk about the stories taking up space in our tabs,
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: our feeds, and our brains.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Melissa.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Megan.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Happy Tuesday.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so a lot to talk about today.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you guys are on TikTok, there's been a lot of Brand Discourse and Missteps in the past week.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to talk about two of them.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the first one and definitely the biggest one is Callaway and Good Good Golf.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're not familiar, Good Good Golf is a YouTube channel and it's a group of guys.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're all friends.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about golf.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Callaway is obviously like a golf
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they recently collaborated on a driver, which is a type of golf club.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know that until this controversy came up.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And they released an ad.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was branded with Callaway.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was about their collabed driver, but it was posted to the Good Good Golf channels.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it didn't go on Callaway's channels, but it had their branding.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it depicted violence against a woman.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I saw it organically, and I couldn't believe that it was real before it was taken down.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if you haven't seen it,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: because they've tried to scrub it from everywhere,
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: but it is a woman on a golf course, a group of people on a golf course.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: She is reaching for the driver that Good Good and Callaway collaborated on.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And before she can touch it,
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: One of the founders of Good Good Golf sprints up to her,
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: shoves her to the ground, leans over her and says, don't touch my driver.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then he picks up the driver and takes a swing at a golf ball.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it was like jarring.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then the Callaway in huge Callaway logo pops up and it pushes to the driver.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And people obviously had very strong reactions to seeing that.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was outright violence and the way he leaned over her was very threatening and creepy.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the sentiment was largely like,
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe this got approved to be published by either Good Good Golf
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: or Callaway.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how did it?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: How did it?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like what?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, since then they've taken it down and really like scrubbed it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I tried to find,
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll put like a reaction video when we post this,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: but like you can only really see like it in green screen.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Some people, you know, screen recorded it before it was deleted.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: But since in the past like 48 hours,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: both brands have come out and said it doesn't align with their values,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: even though they They conceptualized it, approved it, and posted it.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And overnight,
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: like at 1 a.m.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Eastern,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Callaway released a statement from their CEO saying they're doing an internal
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: and external investigation into how this got approved in the first place.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: They've already revamped their approval process and echoed that it does not align
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: with their values.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: But they are continuing to work with Good Good Golf, and they're moving.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: The collaboration is that word.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think this is...
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to...
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is, like... Yeah.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like... Yeah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is where, like,
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: strategy and execution, like,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: kind of the difference is so clear,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: where it's, like,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: on paper,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: the idea of Callaway partnering with one of the biggest golf channels on YouTube
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: in order to reach a younger audience who's newly interested
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: in golf partially thinks... Like, no-brainer.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Makes so much sense.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I think this is also where,
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: and even like we're auditing a lot of the fall collabs that are happening right now,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: and you have a residual brand like Callaway doing something with
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: an emergent creator, like that's great.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's supposed to be buzzworthy.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: However,
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: the execution,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: now that you're in the dominant space, needs to be appropriate for that space.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that this type of content,
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: unfortunately, would do well on the Good Good channel, divorced of the branding.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is something that might get posted.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if it wasn't being an ad sponsored by Callaway, the three of us would have never seen it.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that channel would have just been like, love this video.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's so great.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I bet if we were to go watch Good Good, we would see this value reflected in their content.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe not as overt as shoving a woman to the ground,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: but I think you'd probably be like,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: the girls drool boys role mentality probably is pervasive on the channel.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's,
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a clear demonstration of where they sit on the cultural curve,
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: but I think this is very detrimental to the Callaway brand.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: As sports get more feminized,
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: this is going to be hard for them to overcome,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: especially if they're going to continue this partnership.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Not even just because women are not going to boycott,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: but because they're just not going to be in touch with a female consumer if this is
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: who they're looking to, to navigate the emergent space for them.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this could be wrong,
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: but other creators have said this was the first time Good Good Golf featured a woman
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: in one of their ads or a brand collab,
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: and for it to be in this way, super disappointing.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think you're totally right, Megan.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: This wouldn't have been a blip unless Callaway was involved, unfortunately, for them.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've also seen a few videos of professional female golfers reacting
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: to this saying they will no longer use Callaway products in their work
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: and even like You know,
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Good Good's audience,
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: there have been a lot of people defending them in the comments,
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: but I also have seen a lot of pushback from like straight appearing,
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: straight appearing white men who golfs.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is crazy, and why would it be a woman?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Why didn't you push a man?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why, why, why?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: It is interesting to have Callaway and Good Good Golf have approached the aftermath of this.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Callaway has paused posting,
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: with the exception of the statement from their CEO,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: which they posted to their Instagram grid.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And Good Good has been They haven't slowed down at all.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's been, like,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: about 72 hours of this brewing,
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: and the first, like, 48,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: their comments were getting spammed with people talking about this,
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: but it seems like they're on, like, the tail end of that backlash now.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think definitely Calloway is taking the brunt of the anger in this situation.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: You go first.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: No, you go first.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Something that I've seen, too,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: is that people are wanting to hold, like, individuals responsible more than ever.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I've seen people, like, videos where they're like, this is who the board of Callaway.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is the CEO.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is likely the head of marketing.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Similar, there was a Target.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: There was a Target controversy where they had a racist costume that got approved
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: and they've since taken it down.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: But same thing there.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: People are like, here's the names of the people who worked on this.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I've gotten to their LinkedIn.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure they're getting feedback, hate, harassment.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so I think it's gone beyond like people understand it's no longer just like That is wild.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to say, I was reading about the Target issue last night.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Which was insane.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, the whole story is crazy.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, the fact that that costume got approved is like,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: or even photographed, like, it doesn't make any sense.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that is wild.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, like, just going back to this Good Good and Callaway thing, too.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I have not had Good Good, like, on my radar.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to take a closer look at all this stuff,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: too, because they have, like, a whole series of, it looks like, channels.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's, like, good, good girls, good, good pros, good, good podcasts, good, good mini golf.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, like, a whole, it's a whole thing.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it also feels like, at first glance, too, it's sort of, like, dude perfect a little bit.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Squad of guys and then they all like have their own followings.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: and again,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: there's like the whole I mean, I do think that there is this like it's so funny.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Happy Gilmore was so ahead of its time.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like just this like democratization of golf and like even Happy Gilmore, too.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it's kind of.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do get the sense that like golf seems to be having a bit of a moment right now.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have sort of been like check myself.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it just because of my age and like, you know, whatnot.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: it's so interesting going back to what we always talk about on here
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: about like this idea of like my son Wally being an athlete and like,
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: should I create an account for him?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: A mutual friend actually started an account for her son who is a really good golfer.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's, I think, U10 maybe.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So he's in the top of California, whatever.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she started this account and she's been posting on it and I have not spoken
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: to her personally,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: but other friends were speculating that he might have gotten this.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's like a certain thing,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: it's an acronym that's not coming to my brain right now,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: but Where you can get eligible for sponsorship.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like he can be sponsored at like a very young age.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, I think that might be why she's creating this account.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, this is just so interesting.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wonder if like,
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: again, like youth sports, like kids are getting into these like things much earlier.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then, you know, again, Just people getting into golf.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just interesting.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I just can't even, like,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: because I was like,
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: can I just get a sense of, like, what they were thinking with this idea?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And, like,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: to your point,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: like, maybe if it wasn't a woman doing it, if it was, like, between the dudes.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I guess you could don't touch my driver.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think people would have a problem with it.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or as much of a problem.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess it's just like specifically because it's a woman.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder, like,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I wonder,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know, they have this good, good girls, which is also like a women's golf.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wonder if it was, like, I don't know.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking out loud.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, I wonder if it was one of them in there.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wonder if they were trying to create this opportunity.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Even, like, using the word
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: girls, though, like, because in golf, it's ladies.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, they say ladies.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, like,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: even the way that they've labeled their offering for girls reflects their,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: like, in disrespect for women.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's not what women are called in golf.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: They're called ladies.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, good, good girls.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's vaguely sexualized.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, these are their values, you know?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: The woman who was in the ad is a Good Good employee.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if she is heavily featured in the Good Good Girls account.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: I bet you,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: if you're trying to think of how they were doing it,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would bet it's one of the Good Good Girls and they were trying
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: to create this competition thing between them and
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: get more collaboration out of it.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I'm giving any sort of
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: She could have been the one to tackle him to the ground.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: That would have been... A hundred percent.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: She should have tackled him.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: This good, good lady.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Also, yeah, it's sort of funny.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like good, good golf.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: But like, how come it's not good, good boys?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a common thing that happens in society where when women come to a space, boys leave.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think even unconsciously,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: this is a demonstration of like, we're for the boys, you know?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that is still valuable in male spaces to be like,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: we're not for everyone, we're for the boys.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's part of also why people thought this as being so harmful
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: because it's more of a shot at women in general of like,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: we don't want you guys in our spaces and we have a right to be rude to you
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: if you come, you know?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was when they're, you know, they did an IG story statement.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: They said, oh, we, you know, our values reflect golf as an inclusive space.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't address like the violence of it,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: which is what I think it was so jarring to see it in the video,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: but they did say that all proceeds from this campaign are going to
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: a woman's organization, whatever that means.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think we haven't even gotten to the next one, which is so low stakes compared
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just to say really quickly also,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: because this is interesting,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: they have a Reddit page,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: or Reddit, sorry,
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: subreddit,
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: let me use the correct vernacular,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: that they push to from their YouTube,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: which is interesting,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: and it's called Good Good Memes, your number one source of golf memes.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: But of course,
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: like the most recent three or four posts are like from three hours ago,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is a note from the CEO about the ad that he put on LinkedIn.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he says the concept was intended to parody a scene from the movie Obsession.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen that.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Have you guys seen that?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen it like a million times.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what scene that would be parried.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: He said the execution missed the mark.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I understand why people found it insensitive and I want to be clear that neither
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: nor anyone at Good Good condones violence of any kind.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and women's golf is an important part of that.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: We have supported and grown good, good girls and created real opportunities for them.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: We believe deeply in what they are building and in the opportunity we have
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: to introduce more women and girls to the game.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, just interesting.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Again, clearly this was a mis- I'm curious.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: As you continue to go on to the next topic,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: now I want to go see his LinkedIn post and see what the response is on there.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so crazy.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: As people who've worked for brands in social,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: how many hoops you have to jump through to get content approved.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that this did is just really mind-blowing.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: The next lower stakes social media brand drama that happened recently was
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: with Love Sack Couches.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So this is like a luxury couch brand.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're roughly like 10 grand a couch.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And this comedian with a very big TikTok following made like,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: it was like kind of joking,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: but like kind of not about how he spent $10,000 on this Lovesack couch
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: and it was delivered to him in 24 different boxes and he had to assemble it himself.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And he did a video, he said it took his entire day.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: He had to put on gardening gloves because his knuckles were getting torn up.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then he showed like the gloves at the end and like the fabric was all torn and stuff.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: people were like,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: oh my gosh, this is like a luxury product and so not a luxury experience.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And Love Sack, in response to that, released a couple videos.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: The first one showed a woman assembling a piece of one of their couches
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: and she was basically like, that was so easy.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I could do it and I didn't even need gloves.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like, So easy a woman can do it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Why is this grown man complaining about assembling a couch?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that didn't obviously land well.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then they posted a second video about,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: like, hey guys, like, best way to get, it was kind of gross.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, the best way to get laid is to assemble a couch for you.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was weird.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then people were like, this is weird.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is creepy.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is couch company.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you posting this?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then the CEO then did a video that's still on their TikTok.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they're reviewing their assembly and shipping methods and they will get that
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: to us with an update as soon as possible.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: they just missed the mark because yes,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: this guy was a comedian and yes,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: he was like poking fun at himself and like the experience of spending $10,000 on
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: a couch and then having to assemble it all by yourself.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it was, like, a real thing.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: There are people in the comments who were like, yes,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I got a love sack and,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: like, I love my couch, but, like, it took my entire day to assemble it.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's a real user complaint.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And them trying to poke fun at it,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: especially, like, in the, like, climate that the good, good Callaway ad set.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think people were extra sensitive to the, like, so easy a woman could do it.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Awful.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think in general, the tide has shifted on brands, especially on TikTok.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like you see,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: it's like something I've seen a lot lately is when people are complaining,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: they're like, where's your cute comment now?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll tag the brand that's being complained about,
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: or they'll be like,
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: if someone comments from a brand, they'll be like, give me money.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're no longer open to like,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: you're my friend on this platform, unless you're making your value to be very clear.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the fact that they took Like this video went viral
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: because it reflected like something that a lot of people felt.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so they weren't just clapping back at that one guy.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: They were clapping back at a lot of people.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that feels really bad from a customer perspective, you know?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think last thing I'll say is also it started a conversation about
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: the institutionification of retail.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: And like people were saying like,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: I got a $400 couch at Bob's Furniture and they came to my house and put it together.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the idea that a $7,000 couch,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: like you said, this is a luxury couch and this is not a luxury experience.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: And the guy in the video pointed out that like, oh, they just don't have a factory.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're sending you the pieces.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is a very real thing that's happening with the supply chain right now
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: where they send you the pieces and cut out a step and still charge you
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: the luxury price.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that this was a very real kind of like hole in their brand strategy pointed out.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the way that they acted only made it worse.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I don't even know where to begin.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, the fact that their, like, reply...
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, unless this guy was being really dramatic.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's just say, like, I don't know.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, maybe it really isn't that hard to do.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: and I think that I have to believe that from the brand perspective,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: they think he's being...
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: try to be snarky and fun.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think of Jake, Shane, and Sugarfish.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Remember their whole exchange where he was complaining
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: about how they wouldn't give him a side of rice because he's not a kid
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: and they only do that for kids.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then they commented something snarky.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then he's like, do we have a beef?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so now Jake, Shane, and Sugarfish are beefing.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't feel that that's the same.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's different coming from like a luxury brick and mortar restaurant in L.A.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: versus like a DTC product couch that's $7,000.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like those are two different brands that have two different permission structures
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: of how they interact with customers.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love that phrase, permission structure.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's so true.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, like I agree.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: This idea of creating a meme or having levity or a fun response is definitely in the ether.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's a good philosophical question in general.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm of the mind that if we were going to define this era right now,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: though, I think we're in the era of utility.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think utility is the word.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've talked about utility creators.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that life and things in life, everything is overpriced, dramatically overpriced.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: There are hidden costs to hidden costs to hidden costs,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: and the consumer is always losing somehow.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think that when I think about what I want to get from a brand,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's like on social media,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: like I don't know if I'm in like the phase of I need the laughs
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: and more like I'd rather I would rather just like
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: a really great like smart customer service response,
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: like and at the end of the day,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: like the brands that have like top notch are almost famous
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: for their customer service like Nordstrom is and so is Costco.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like, I don't even need Costco.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do I need Costco to be funny?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Costco was brought up a lot in the love stock conversation because people were like,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I got a $500 couch from Costco.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: They shipped it to my house.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: They assembled it for me.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: They took all the boxes and then they took my old couch.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm talking about, man.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, utility.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't know.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't really.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're getting at the disconnect too between product and marketing that I've noticed
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: in a lot of companies where oftentimes marketing is handed something
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: and they're like, market this product and changes cannot be made.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone's aware of the glaring problems with the product,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: but there's no like recourse to like Talk to product about changing it.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I feel like this is also a reflection of the marketing team just being like,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: we know this is a thing, but there's nothing that we can do about it.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: So like, let's make it a joke.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: But that is not what people want to hear from the company because they want to see
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: the company as one entity as much as they can, you know?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is really interesting, Megan.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's true.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like there's a lot like,
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Half of the time,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know, obviously doing digital strategy, we're like, we're marketers too.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like half the time I'm like, why is this goal?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do, you know, like what?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let me try to like,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I said this on a client call earlier today and I'm like, like, wait, really?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let me go try to like explain this to someone who has no idea what's going on.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I sell it through?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like, and that's really like such a cornerstone of marketing.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, Reading the room, what is it?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: How do I get from point A to point B?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why is this going to make my life better?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: How is it going to add value?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that those are honestly, here's what I'll say too, universal truths.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, those are universal truths.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't care how niche your audience is.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care how wealthy they are.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care all of that.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, universal truths are make my life better.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Save me money.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me very quickly, like going from point A to point B, like how do I get it?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why like, you know, again, that's why Amazon rules right now.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's so fast.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like problem solving.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you need something.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's fast.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's reliable.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: You'll get it within two days or more.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I love the 4 to 8 a.m. delivery.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's like my favorite thing.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're in Slack with Melissa, you know she's kicking.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, what did you say?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in a Slack with Melissa,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know you're up and at him at 5 a.m. And I'm always like, that's poor Melissa.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Don't say poor Melissa.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I will say I actually slept in today because my toddler is torturing me
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: and he keeps waking up and getting in my bed.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm having very fragmented sleep, which I'm sure you can tell just by looking at me.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's a tough back-to-school season.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's tough.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: But we are glad that they are back to school.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the theme that you guys brought up,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: like marketers and the marketer teams,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: because I feel like the theme with all three of these,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: like Target,
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Callaway Good Good,
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: and Love Sack, is fostering marketing teams or social teams that Totally.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they've seen brands like Target literally divest from DEI,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: and then now they're in a DEI scandal.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: it really is like,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: unless the people are there,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: and unless you're actively trying to get them there,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: you know, then you're not going to have their perspectives.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, super interesting.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love how much we date this, because we're basically at 30 minutes.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: But we'll do a little preview maybe for Thursday,
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: one of our Thursday topics,
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: which will be about the new pipeline of content creator to real estate agent.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, that is hilarious.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's very interesting.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about this more on Thursday.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: We should do like a fun thing.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like each of us has to think about which content creator we would want to buy our house from.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: We'll say it on Thursday.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've thought about this quite a bit,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: and I do think that, like,
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: we've worked with some real estate agents,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: so we can, like,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: talk about firsthand sort of experience,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: but a lot of it is, I mean, real estate is, like, the circles of people you know.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And, like, you know, so I can see why a lot of people land there, honestly.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is somewhere I will never be.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing I can say.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I can confidently say that I would be so bad at that job.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I respect people that do it.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are a real estate agent, you kind of have to be like a creator.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are a creator.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean... That's just like how it is now, you know?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be like Is what?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Taking ads out in your local newspapers to get the word out.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's all about social media.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I pretty regularly get content from real estate agents served up to me.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I love that.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: We'll all think about a content creator we want to buy a house from.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll dive into it more on Thursday.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys so much.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know who I'll buy?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Frederick is really good.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Frederick Eklund.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he came from...
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna come from like the reality TV world and I'll talk about that.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, sounds good.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, bye you guys.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, bye.