Latest / Tom's Hirschsprung's Podcast / Episode 68 - With Elle Woods-Marshall

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Episode 68 - With Elle Woods-Marshall · Tom's Hirschsprung's Podcast

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Speaker 1: You are listening to Tom's Hirshprunk's Podcast, where I provide
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Speaker 1: a look into the remarkable experiences of the most inspiring
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Speaker 1: people around Hirshprung's disease and sports. Hello and welcome to
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Speaker 1: episode sixty eight of Tom's Hirshprun's Podcast. I am joined
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Speaker 1: today by Ellie Woods Marshall. Ellie, welcome to the podcast.
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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for having me, not at.
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Speaker 1: All, thanks so much for coming on. Now. You are
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Speaker 1: are one of the few people in this podcast that
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Speaker 1: I've actually met in person, as we met that the
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Speaker 1: Hirshprung's conference. It's going to be about a month ago,
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Speaker 1: I think as we sit here and record this. So yes,
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Speaker 1: so you are actually somebody I have met in person.
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Speaker 1: Now we are going to go through your story. You
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Speaker 1: have Hirshprung's total klonic Hirshprungs. We're going to go through
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Speaker 1: your story and then little bits and pieces to do
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Speaker 1: with that as well. So if you wouldn't mind sort
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Speaker 1: of taking us, I guess right from sort of the beginning, really, yeah,
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Speaker 1: I can try.
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Speaker 3: My varients have tried to inform me a little bit,
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Speaker 3: but it's a bit patchy. But yeah, as you mentioned
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Speaker 3: I have total chronic hirshbrung, so the whole of my
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Speaker 3: line intestine and forty percent of my small intestine is gone.
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Speaker 3: So I had, I think, when I was asking my
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Speaker 3: mum last night, around four major surgeries. The first one
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Speaker 3: was when I was I think twelve hours old or
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Speaker 3: something like that, so it's very quick, and then I
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Speaker 3: had around eleven sort of more minor surgeries. So I
2:05
Speaker 3: grew up, so I was in Older Hay where the
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Speaker 3: conference was where Tom I met And sorry, there's a suren.
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Speaker 2: In the background. You can cut that out.
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Speaker 1: I can't hear it.
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Speaker 3: Okay, that's good. So, yeah, I grew up under the
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Speaker 3: care of Older Hay. So I was in and out
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Speaker 3: of hospital for well. I lived in hospital for the
2:27
Speaker 3: first two or three years, and then I was in
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Speaker 3: hospital every few weeks till I was like maybe five
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Speaker 3: or six with viruses and all things like that, and
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Speaker 3: then yeah, I've lived fairly normalized. I guess we can
2:42
Speaker 3: go into that a little bit about what that looks like.
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Speaker 3: But yeah, it would be interesting to talk about like
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Speaker 3: more the mental health kind of connections and things that
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Speaker 3: I've experienced, like being a younger adult.
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Speaker 2: And then going into adulthood.
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Speaker 3: That's kind of where the things I remember are like
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Speaker 3: more that aspect.
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Speaker 1: Well, let's dive into that. Then. Let's go into that
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Speaker 1: straight away, because I think the link between mental health
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Speaker 1: and chronic illness in general is huge. I mean, that
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Speaker 1: doesn't take a genius to work that out, but it is.
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Speaker 1: It is huge. But I think in terms of gut
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Speaker 1: health and the link between gut health and the brain
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Speaker 1: is enormous. There's some research done on it, not this
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Speaker 1: huge amount that I can see, but there is research
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Speaker 1: done on it, and I think that that is massive.
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Speaker 1: What's your sort of overriding thoughts on that.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's like sort of two aspects from
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Speaker 3: what I'm definitely no scientist. Background is not in science,
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Speaker 3: so as you say, like, I've read different research that's happening,
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Speaker 3: and it feels like the link between gut health and
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Speaker 3: mental health is like not fair not new, but like
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Speaker 3: it's kind of being explored at the moment, which means
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Speaker 3: that I imagine, yeah, there's gonna be lots of papers in
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Speaker 3: twenty years that explain the different links, but at the
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Speaker 3: moment is still like fairly unknown. But I guess for me,
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Speaker 3: I've grown up. So I have OCD. So I got
4:22
Speaker 3: diagnosed with OCD around twelve years old. And I do
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Speaker 3: think there's quite a big link, not necessarily like a
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Speaker 3: biological link, I don't I don't know about that, but
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Speaker 3: kind of the social aspect of Hoshbrungs and how it
4:36
Speaker 3: affects you.
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Speaker 2: I think growing an up an.
4:39
Speaker 3: Arspital from my early years as well, like probably impacted
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Speaker 3: the way that my brain works now and that I
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Speaker 3: understand the world. So yeah, I think it'll be interesting
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Speaker 3: to see in the future what they find out about
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Speaker 3: and if there's any like medications or anything like that,
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Speaker 3: because for example, I've been on e to the pressants
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Speaker 3: for like various things, and even that it's like unclear
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Speaker 3: with like how it absorbs in the art and like
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Speaker 3: how it works.
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Speaker 2: Because obviously it's a missing though.
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Speaker 3: It probably impacts the way that like different medications work
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Speaker 3: and things like that. But I think I guess I
5:20
Speaker 3: can talk a bit about at school and things like that.
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Speaker 2: I think.
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Speaker 3: I think one of the things I realized when I
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Speaker 3: first joined the hush Brons group, because I spoke to
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Speaker 3: Luisa I'm sure she won't mind me saying this, was
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Speaker 3: that we had really really similar experiences, and I found
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Speaker 3: that I think a lot. When I was younger, I
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Speaker 3: was pushing down the Hushbruns thing.
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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, it's not a big deal. It
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Speaker 2: just means I go to the toilet. Woman and everyone
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Speaker 2: else like it's not a big deal, and actually.
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Speaker 3: Does it for me Anyway, it had a huge social impact.
5:56
Speaker 3: It impacted the food that I was eating. I was
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Speaker 3: also there free till I was around eight, which actually
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Speaker 3: me and my parents didn't realize this. It's actually quite
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Speaker 3: common to hirsh brings children to have allergies, dairy allergies,
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Speaker 3: egg alergies, things like that, which again doesn't sound like
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Speaker 3: a big deal, but when you're six and you're going
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Speaker 3: to McDonald's and you can't eat the food that everyone
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Speaker 3: else is eating, it's just like kind of compounds into
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Speaker 3: one bid thing. I think also using the toilet a lot.
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Speaker 3: It's like there's a lot of stigma around just.
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Speaker 2: Talking about going to the toilet, talking about going to
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Speaker 2: the loo.
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Speaker 3: Which I'm sure you understand as well, and I'm sure
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Speaker 3: a lot of people listening will understand. So I think
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Speaker 3: when I was younger, I was just very embarrassed and
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Speaker 3: I had like a lot of shame, which I think
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Speaker 3: can manifest if you don't talk about it into other
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Speaker 3: stuff later on, like mental health stuff. But from what
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Speaker 3: I understand when I was at the conference, I hear
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Speaker 3: that there's a lot more mental health support for kids now,
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Speaker 3: like from the beginning, because I think when I was younger,
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Speaker 3: and probably when you were younger as well, there was
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Speaker 3: that wasn't even their thought. It was just like, do
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Speaker 3: the surgeries, get it done, hope they're okay, and then
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Speaker 3: like look after them health wise. But obviously there's on
7:15
Speaker 3: whole other side with the brain that needs to be considered.
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Speaker 1: Nowadays, absolutely, yeah, no, I think very much because your
7:24
Speaker 1: mid twenties, aren't you so what and obviously I'm a
7:28
Speaker 1: little bit older, but that whole kind of looking after
7:33
Speaker 1: the whole person is a lot more prevalent now than
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Speaker 1: it was. It was very much as you said, everything
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Speaker 1: was physical. Everything was kind of like, right, let's get
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Speaker 1: this done, fix this to this, take that out, tie
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Speaker 1: this up, et cetera.
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Speaker 2: Which makes sense.
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Speaker 1: It was aute bid done.
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Speaker 3: But it's yeah, there's like the whole other aspect, as
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Speaker 3: you mentioned.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I mean keeping the patient alive is
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Speaker 1: the most important thing, so you can see why why
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Speaker 1: people went down that route. But I think you're you're
8:07
Speaker 1: right in terms of there's there's a lot more focus
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Speaker 1: on the mental wellbeing of the patient and also the
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Speaker 1: mental wellbeing of the parents, because I think that's something
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Speaker 1: that also gets completely missed and actually, whilst your child
8:24
Speaker 1: is going through X, Y and Z, it takes a
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Speaker 1: toll on the parents as well, I think. So I
8:33
Speaker 1: think that's something I know you alluded to it there
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Speaker 1: with the conference, but that's something that's really really important
8:41
Speaker 1: that sort of stepped up in the last five or
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Speaker 1: ten years something like that.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think obviously I can't speak to my parents,
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Speaker 3: maybe that's a whole other episode. Can't speak for them,
8:52
Speaker 3: but I think, yeah, absolutely, there's obviously the staff of
8:59
Speaker 3: Old Hair. I don't know any of them have been listening,
9:01
Speaker 3: but they are like incredible. And also I got to
9:05
Speaker 3: meet kind of re meet Simon Kenny, who was one
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Speaker 3: of the people that did a lot of my operations,
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Speaker 3: so he was like, I think he was a registrar
9:15
Speaker 3: at the time, but he's like Professor Simon Kenny now,
9:18
Speaker 3: so he was like presenting at the conference. But it
9:21
Speaker 3: was amazing to meet him, and my parents were also
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Speaker 3: there at the conference as well, and they got to
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Speaker 3: meet him, and it was strange because obviously I knew him,
9:29
Speaker 3: like I felt like a sense of familiar familiarity, but
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Speaker 3: I yeah, it was. It was this kind of surreal experience,
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Speaker 3: to be honest. But my parents, I think going to
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Speaker 3: the conference, I realized like how much of an impact
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Speaker 3: this whole journey has had on my parents as well,
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Speaker 3: just because they were getting quite emotional. And I think,
9:51
Speaker 3: yeahs as the person with the condition, you can sometimes
9:55
Speaker 3: well I can. I've sometimes forgotten that they were also
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Speaker 3: there and they can remember a lot more than me.
10:02
Speaker 3: So I think that support for families is like absolutely vital,
10:06
Speaker 3: which is, you know, something that we're hoping to figure out,
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Speaker 3: but dreamers as well, like setting up hopefully and some
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Speaker 3: sort of body up support grope for patients and families.
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Speaker 2: And things like that.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, well let's let's tell people about that. I mean,
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Speaker 1: that's something that you and I have been have been
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Speaker 1: sort of working on for the last a month give
10:28
Speaker 1: or take, and it's we know it's going to be
10:31
Speaker 1: a sort of slow progress type thing, but yeah, it's
10:36
Speaker 1: kind of well, it was your your idea, so I
10:39
Speaker 1: just sort of lodged on top. But do you talk
10:43
Speaker 1: a little bit more about that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
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Speaker 3: I think one of the things kind of growing up,
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Speaker 3: I wish that I could see someone that kind of
10:53
Speaker 3: was similar to me, but older, who had gone through
10:56
Speaker 3: the same things and I could ask questions to. And
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Speaker 3: I think obviously I had my parents, and I had
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Speaker 3: the doctors and nurses, but it doesn't feel the same
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Speaker 3: when you don't have.
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Speaker 2: Like a peer who you can like feel like you.
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Speaker 3: Feel connected to and feel like a sense of representation.
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Speaker 3: And I think, if I'm gonna admit this, when I
11:17
Speaker 3: went to the conference, I was like, I just want
11:19
Speaker 3: to find someone my age. And then I was sat
11:21
Speaker 3: in the waiting room before and I got a bit
11:25
Speaker 3: emotional because I couldn't see any I could just see
11:28
Speaker 3: babies and families at the beginning, just in the waiting there,
11:31
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, like and I didn't realize
11:34
Speaker 3: how much I was like hoping to find someone that
11:39
Speaker 3: was similar to me. And obviously it was really great
11:41
Speaker 3: there was children and families there, but I was just
11:44
Speaker 3: really hoping to like find a friend and luckily that
11:47
Speaker 3: obviously you were there, and also Zoe was there and
11:49
Speaker 3: that was just so cool to meet people that have
11:52
Speaker 3: similar experiences. And then yeah, kind of as I've grown up.
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Speaker 3: When I was younger, I wanted that person and now
12:00
Speaker 3: I kind of want to be that person because I've
12:03
Speaker 3: never been able to find someone older. So if, yeah,
12:07
Speaker 3: if we can set up this group, the idea is
12:09
Speaker 3: to have like a body up scheme. So I think
12:13
Speaker 3: from what I heard at the conference, just so many
12:16
Speaker 3: people are looking for just kind of an informal way
12:20
Speaker 3: to connect with other families and patients, a way for
12:26
Speaker 3: young people, like children, young people to find connection to
12:30
Speaker 3: people with the same condition, but also away for families
12:33
Speaker 3: just to like breathe around, like because I feel like
12:37
Speaker 3: when I don't know, even in that room where everyone
12:40
Speaker 3: was together, it felt like there was a sense of
12:42
Speaker 3: shared understanding and you know, like small things like if
12:47
Speaker 3: my Tommy was rumbling, which is like a thing that
12:49
Speaker 3: I get a lot.
12:49
Speaker 2: I don't know how common that is with Hirshbrungs.
12:52
Speaker 3: I've spoke to a lot of people, but like it's
12:54
Speaker 3: very very loud, and like in exams and stuff, you
12:58
Speaker 3: ud be so a lad and everyone was staring at
12:59
Speaker 3: me in my face, would be going red and like
13:01
Speaker 3: and like when that happened in the conference, I felt
13:04
Speaker 3: like even if the people I don't even know if
13:05
Speaker 3: people heard, but like I wouldn't be bothered because like
13:09
Speaker 3: everyone there would understand, if that makes sense. So I
13:13
Speaker 3: think having like a shared space that we suggested doing
13:17
Speaker 3: the body up scheme and then like maybe doing like
13:19
Speaker 3: events like picnics and things like this in summer. And
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Speaker 3: I think, even if it's not about hershbrungs, it's just
13:25
Speaker 3: nice to be in a space where everyone kind of
13:28
Speaker 3: gets it and like you can talk about it openly
13:30
Speaker 3: and it's just not.
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Speaker 2: A big deal.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think your idea is fantastic. And I
13:35
Speaker 1: think I know we have a Facebook group the people
13:40
Speaker 1: can join and well hopefully hopefully going to start sort
13:45
Speaker 1: of setting up events in the next maybe this year or.
13:49
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, hopefully.
13:51
Speaker 1: But I think, like we said, it's going to take
13:53
Speaker 1: it's going to take quite a while. I wouldn't I
13:55
Speaker 1: wouldn't be expecting sort.
13:56
Speaker 2: Of yeah, lots of things I've been said.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, not something in like the next couple of weeks
14:02
Speaker 1: or something on a couple of months. But I think,
14:06
Speaker 1: like you said, the idea of just having someone there
14:10
Speaker 1: who is maybe roughly a similar age to you that
14:15
Speaker 1: can that can relate because you can, like you said,
14:19
Speaker 1: you can talk to parents, you can talk to friends,
14:20
Speaker 1: you can talk to doctors, but they haven't been through
14:23
Speaker 1: what you've been through, you know, And everybody's Hirschbrun's story
14:28
Speaker 1: is different. If it wasn't, i'd be out of a
14:31
Speaker 1: podcast after episode one. So I'm glad everyone's is different,
14:35
Speaker 1: but you have that sort of shared similarity from people
14:41
Speaker 1: and that sort of and I guess that's where the
14:44
Speaker 1: conference was really really helpful, because I know that there
14:48
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of people around that sort of what
14:52
Speaker 1: was I twenty to forty age bracket that we would
14:55
Speaker 1: be in, and a lot of it, I guess would
14:59
Speaker 1: have been or were mothers, fathers that were there, you know,
15:03
Speaker 1: obviously wanting to know, I guess answers to a certain
15:09
Speaker 1: degree of what the future is going to be like like.
15:13
Speaker 1: And of course the doctors couldn't say that, they can't
15:16
Speaker 1: say this is going to happen, that's going to happen, whatever.
15:19
Speaker 1: But I think there were a lot of a lot
15:21
Speaker 1: of families, a lot of families there, and of course
15:23
Speaker 1: it was sold out as well, and it was sold
15:26
Speaker 1: out relatively quickly, which is fantastic, which I think also
15:33
Speaker 1: leads into that buddy up scheme in the fact that
15:35
Speaker 1: there is there is the need and the want there
15:40
Speaker 1: for people to communicate more, to know more. It doesn't
15:44
Speaker 1: have to be you know, a conference every single time. Yeah,
15:47
Speaker 1: but you know those those take a lot of planning
15:49
Speaker 1: and huge thanks to olda Hay for that because they
15:53
Speaker 1: were they were fantastic. But I think that wanting that
15:58
Speaker 1: sort of just a little bit of reassurance sometimes I
16:04
Speaker 1: think doesn't go amiss. But I think in terms of
16:09
Speaker 1: what we wanted to look like, though not going to
16:13
Speaker 1: give a time frame on it, but roughly what we
16:16
Speaker 1: wanted to look like, what would that be for you?
16:21
Speaker 2: I think so.
16:24
Speaker 3: I think it would just be, yeah, just creating a
16:29
Speaker 3: space for those connections to happen and also hopefully across
16:33
Speaker 3: the UK, like not just centered around because I know
16:39
Speaker 3: we suggested doing it around Older Hay or like in
16:42
Speaker 3: that sort of like northwest area, which is where I'm
16:45
Speaker 3: from from Warrington. But when we when I put out
16:50
Speaker 3: the posts, like so many people from across the UK,
16:53
Speaker 3: like like I'm from.
16:54
Speaker 2: Needs I'd love to do this. I'm from like so.
16:56
Speaker 4: Many different places, so I think it would be really
16:59
Speaker 4: cooled to like test it in one, like one meetup
17:03
Speaker 4: and then you know, hopefully it grow across the UK.
17:08
Speaker 3: And then Zoey also said that she'd loved to do
17:10
Speaker 3: something in the US, So, like, you know, I think
17:14
Speaker 3: with a rare condition, I think it can often feel
17:19
Speaker 3: like there's literally no one else.
17:20
Speaker 2: But like when you go on the.
17:21
Speaker 3: Facebook page, there's so many people that are on that
17:25
Speaker 3: page and families that are on that page, So.
17:28
Speaker 2: There are people out there that get it.
17:32
Speaker 3: But yeah, hopefully we can set up something that's across
17:35
Speaker 3: the UK and.
17:36
Speaker 2: Then maybe even further afield as well.
17:38
Speaker 3: And we're looking to partner with charities that already have
17:42
Speaker 3: like connections in those areas and stuff. So if you're
17:45
Speaker 3: listening and you have some sort of connection, reach out
17:48
Speaker 3: to us, because that'd be really cool.
17:50
Speaker 1: No, that'd be fantastic. And I love the fact that
17:54
Speaker 1: even though we haven't had one meet up yet, we're
17:57
Speaker 1: still going for world domination.
17:58
Speaker 3: I like that, Yeah, you've got it, You've got to
18:01
Speaker 3: set your sites.
18:02
Speaker 2: Hi, do you know?
18:03
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely we getting Zoe involved. We'll we'll go for
18:06
Speaker 1: world domination. It'll be yeah, it'll be great. I'll have
18:09
Speaker 1: a buddy off system Bruns absolutely well. That that's my aim.
18:14
Speaker 1: That's one of the aims of this podcast, I guess,
18:17
Speaker 1: is that when people do goos hospitals and they get
18:20
Speaker 1: diagnosed or they go to see their GP. No offense
18:23
Speaker 1: to GPS at all, but a lot of GPS that
18:25
Speaker 1: you do see. And you mentioned the word Hirshbrungs and
18:27
Speaker 1: they go, hu, right, I'm going to look that up,
18:31
Speaker 1: you know, and often you know a bit more spell it. Yeah, yeah,
18:36
Speaker 1: and often you know a bit more than they do
18:39
Speaker 1: about it. So and just on that, I guess before
18:44
Speaker 1: we move on to the next bit. You said in
18:47
Speaker 1: your story a little bit about the fact that you
18:51
Speaker 1: sort of played down Hirshbrungs quite a bit. I know
18:57
Speaker 1: that feeling is I did. I very much did the same.
19:01
Speaker 1: What was kind of your I'm obviously talking about bow
19:04
Speaker 1: stuff with friends obviously is going to be a difficult topic.
19:10
Speaker 1: But was that sort of the main reason or was
19:11
Speaker 1: there other sort of things associated as well.
19:15
Speaker 3: I think there's like a few different parts, Like the
19:18
Speaker 3: bowels stuff is always hard to talk about, and I think, yeah,
19:26
Speaker 3: I think it's really easy to joke about, like people
19:30
Speaker 3: like to laugh about who like people do because it's funny.
19:35
Speaker 3: But I think I got into a space where I
19:38
Speaker 3: was joking about it, but it meant that when I
19:41
Speaker 3: was actually ill or like experience symptoms, people didn't take
19:45
Speaker 3: it seriously because I obviously they wouldn't because I've been
19:48
Speaker 3: joking about it, if that makes sense.
19:50
Speaker 2: So actually, in the.
19:51
Speaker 3: Last few years, I've found I needed to express to
19:57
Speaker 3: like people that were close to me, like you know,
20:00
Speaker 3: this does impact me, and like it's really good that
20:03
Speaker 3: we can joke about it, but also here's how it
20:06
Speaker 3: looks for me. And I think that's like really helped
20:09
Speaker 3: me take it seriously and help me actually make accommodations
20:14
Speaker 3: with myself in my life.
20:16
Speaker 2: It's like I've given myself permission to like.
20:19
Speaker 3: Take it seriously, not that it's you know, my life
20:22
Speaker 3: is not awful, and I'm really grateful for like that
20:26
Speaker 3: I that I'm managing and like, you know, I'm able
20:30
Speaker 3: to do loads of stuff which I'm sure go into
20:32
Speaker 3: like I have a full time job and I'm able
20:34
Speaker 3: to go into work and in the office and all
20:35
Speaker 3: that stuff, but like still it does impact me daily
20:39
Speaker 3: and things like sleep. Like I get up every single
20:44
Speaker 3: night at least five times to go to the loo,
20:48
Speaker 3: which like I would just always be like, oh, that's
20:50
Speaker 3: so funny, like to my friends and we're like, ah,
20:53
Speaker 3: never get a night sleep or something. It's like no, actually,
20:55
Speaker 3: that's like that's going to impact your mood and like
21:00
Speaker 3: going up to work at nine am when you've not slept,
21:03
Speaker 3: or like sometimes I get up like over ten fifteen
21:06
Speaker 3: times at night, So it can look quite yeah, it
21:10
Speaker 3: can look differently depending on how I'm doing. It's sort
21:15
Speaker 3: of like impacted by my period like things like that
21:18
Speaker 3: that people probably don't talk about it, and it's like
21:20
Speaker 3: all these things that I like have stigma attached to them,
21:24
Speaker 3: So I think I just kind of push it down
21:26
Speaker 3: ignored it for a long time. But it actually was
21:28
Speaker 3: really interesting to hear Zoe describe it at the conference.
21:32
Speaker 3: Does a chronic illness or like a chronic condition, which
21:35
Speaker 3: like I've actually found since then, I've actually been like, oh,
21:39
Speaker 3: that's actually a really good way to describe it to people.
21:42
Speaker 3: I don't know how it's officially like where it fits officially,
21:46
Speaker 3: but like I think chronic illness is like a really
21:48
Speaker 3: good way for people to understand, because it's like impacts
21:51
Speaker 3: you regularly, if that makes sense, Whereas I think if
21:56
Speaker 3: you say, oh, I had some surgeries when I was
21:58
Speaker 3: let old, people are like, oh, well it's is down now,
22:00
Speaker 3: so surely it's fine. So yeah, I guess that's kind
22:05
Speaker 3: of the journey I've been on with it. And I
22:08
Speaker 3: think also something that I didn't anticipate is like when
22:13
Speaker 3: I met my boyfriend as well as like a whole
22:15
Speaker 3: of the world of explaining, because I guess that with
22:19
Speaker 3: friends like obviously explain it, but when you stay over
22:23
Speaker 3: at someone's house and like you need to go to
22:27
Speaker 3: the loo a lot, and like there's also like noises.
22:30
Speaker 2: That you have to explain when you go to lio.
22:32
Speaker 3: And like different of that, which like now I'm actually
22:34
Speaker 3: really good at communicating, But at the beginning, I was like,
22:38
Speaker 3: I remember the first time I went to.
22:41
Speaker 2: My partner's family's house.
22:44
Speaker 3: And I didn't go to the louver for a whole day,
22:47
Speaker 3: and I because I was embarrassed and I didn't know
22:50
Speaker 3: which lutero used, and I was in so much pain,
22:52
Speaker 3: and I remember eating dinner for them for the first time,
22:56
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my god, I'm making such
22:57
Speaker 3: a bad impression because I couldn't even speak because I
22:59
Speaker 3: was in so much pay. And obviously they're absolutely amazing
23:04
Speaker 3: about it because I've explained it. But I think that initial,
23:09
Speaker 3: oh what do I do? I don't know whether to
23:11
Speaker 3: go to the loo, I don't know where to go,
23:13
Speaker 3: like can be really hard.
23:15
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that's part of it as well.
23:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, you make some really really good points there,
23:21
Speaker 1: And I think it is socially as well. I don't
23:25
Speaker 1: think again, we talked about the mental sides, but also
23:29
Speaker 1: the social side of of hirshprungs is also really really important.
23:36
Speaker 1: And I think especially that because a lot of people
23:40
Speaker 1: again associate hirshprungs with babies and with surgery and all
23:48
Speaker 1: of this kind of stuff, that actually it can still
23:53
Speaker 1: impact you across various parts of your life, and you know,
24:00
Speaker 1: things like dating and friendships and things like that. You know,
24:07
Speaker 1: being open and talking about it is I mean, obviously,
24:11
Speaker 1: you know it's very easy to say, oh, well we
24:13
Speaker 1: should all be open and all talk about it. It
24:16
Speaker 1: sometimes isn't that easy, you know?
24:18
Speaker 3: It's good?
24:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think trying to find ways to describe
24:24
Speaker 1: Hirshbrun's as well is also really really tricky. I know
24:28
Speaker 1: for me, I never really described it to my friends
24:31
Speaker 1: because one I wasn't I didn't really know too much
24:33
Speaker 1: about it, but also because it was such a long
24:36
Speaker 1: winded home thing that you'd have to talk about, and
24:39
Speaker 1: it was kind of like, actually, I can't be bothered
24:41
Speaker 1: to stand here for five minutes and describe it to you.
24:45
Speaker 3: And I think, as you say, like again, gps are amazing,
24:49
Speaker 3: and all the doctors and nurses and never believe that
24:52
Speaker 3: I've interracted with great But like as you say, like
24:56
Speaker 3: when you go to the GP and they don't know
24:58
Speaker 3: what it is, it's like, oh, I'm I want to
25:00
Speaker 3: explain it to.
25:01
Speaker 2: My friends who don't have medical degrees.
25:03
Speaker 3: And like my favorite memory is like when I went
25:06
Speaker 3: for an ultrasound and when and they were doing the ultrasound,
25:11
Speaker 3: the person was like terrified because they couldn't find my
25:15
Speaker 3: large intesting because I don't think they'd like seen it
25:17
Speaker 3: on my notes, or maybe it wasn't on my notes,
25:19
Speaker 3: but that was like, that's like my ultimately, I think
25:23
Speaker 3: when yeah, it feels like just constantly being like kind
25:27
Speaker 3: of misunderstood. So you're just like I'm not even gonna
25:29
Speaker 3: explain it is fine, but then leads to the social
25:33
Speaker 3: aspect of like it being tricky, and I think another
25:37
Speaker 3: aspect of it is like body image as well, Like
25:41
Speaker 3: I have a lot of scars, like huge scars in
25:44
Speaker 3: my stomach because I had quite a few operations and
25:48
Speaker 3: like a couple of times where they went in a
25:50
Speaker 3: few times in same spots. It like you know, it
25:52
Speaker 3: has it looks a certain way, and like growing up
25:56
Speaker 3: very very conscious of that. I not saying this is
26:00
Speaker 3: why this happened.
26:01
Speaker 2: There's so many reasons.
26:03
Speaker 3: But I had an eating disorder when I was growing
26:08
Speaker 3: up as well, which, like I do think body image
26:12
Speaker 3: wise probably was like related to the scars, like kind
26:16
Speaker 3: of why it started.
26:17
Speaker 2: And there was this like.
26:22
Speaker 3: I think I wanted to this wasn't the only reason,
26:25
Speaker 3: but like I was confused why my stomach can never
26:28
Speaker 3: be flat compared to like all my friends, and like
26:31
Speaker 3: it's like it's never going to be flat. It's got
26:33
Speaker 3: huge scars on it and scar tissue. So but as
26:36
Speaker 3: a kid, you don't, like you just like why can't
26:39
Speaker 3: I be like everyone else? Why doesn't it look like this?
26:42
Speaker 3: So I think, yeah, like socially and mentality. It's all
26:45
Speaker 3: it's all connected. But I think body image wise because
26:48
Speaker 3: for example, when I joined the postprins group, which I
26:52
Speaker 3: only joined about a year and a half ago, I
26:55
Speaker 3: kind of knew it existed, but I was like kind
26:58
Speaker 3: of scared because it was the reason I joined was
27:01
Speaker 3: because I was starting to have questions around like fertility
27:04
Speaker 3: and genetics, which was something that I was asking about
27:07
Speaker 3: at the conference, and.
27:10
Speaker 2: That's the reason I joined.
27:11
Speaker 3: But actually when I joined and made a post, I
27:13
Speaker 3: got so many messages all in one day from mainly
27:18
Speaker 3: mums but parents asking oh, did you have any issues
27:23
Speaker 3: with your body image or like and like my little
27:27
Speaker 3: girl has this, Like how did it impact you at school?
27:29
Speaker 3: It's like that's like a massive part of it, the
27:32
Speaker 3: social side, because obviously when the surgery is done, you
27:35
Speaker 3: can have you know, there are medical sides it, but
27:38
Speaker 3: like the social impact is like pretty huge. So I
27:42
Speaker 3: think that's where the body up scheme would be so cool,
27:45
Speaker 3: because like a young girl or young person could come
27:49
Speaker 3: to me and be like how did you deal with
27:51
Speaker 3: like getting changed? If someone actually like why does your
27:54
Speaker 3: stomach look like that? Or like which tournat did you use?
27:57
Speaker 3: At school because like, for example, he's like the staff
28:01
Speaker 3: disabled toilet like things like that, But you just don't
28:04
Speaker 3: know unless you speak to someone who's been through the
28:07
Speaker 3: same thing, like how to navigate those situations.
28:11
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I'm glad you mentioned the Facebook Facebook group
28:14
Speaker 1: as well, because we have mentioned a little bit on
28:17
Speaker 1: the sort of negative side of the social aspect. But
28:19
Speaker 1: that's a really positive part because kind of end up
28:25
Speaker 1: turning your condition I guess, into more of a community,
28:31
Speaker 1: and then you feel, like we we said with the
28:33
Speaker 1: buddy Up scheme and the conference, you kind of feel
28:37
Speaker 1: amongst your own peers as such, and then having that
28:43
Speaker 1: Facebook group, I guess it's there's a couple of sort
28:48
Speaker 1: of main ones out There's one that's got about ten thousand,
28:50
Speaker 1: which is sort of across the world. Then there's the
28:52
Speaker 1: UK one, which Melissa Jones runs, who's been on this
28:56
Speaker 1: podcast before, and that's go about I think that two thousand,
29:00
Speaker 1: just over two thousand people on it. And sometimes I
29:05
Speaker 1: look at that and tend to feel a little bit lost,
29:08
Speaker 1: and I kind of go, wow, there's just so much
29:10
Speaker 1: info here that it's difficult to see the wood for
29:14
Speaker 1: the trees. It is so so important to have that
29:20
Speaker 1: that kind of community, and that's that is a positive
29:23
Speaker 1: part then, And I guess if you hadn't had hirsh Brungs,
29:27
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have found that social art. And so I
29:31
Speaker 1: think that's that's also really important as well.
29:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's that's a good point.
29:35
Speaker 2: I definitely.
29:38
Speaker 3: It's an interesting one because when I was thinking about
29:41
Speaker 3: genetics and fertility and I was like being given percentages.
29:45
Speaker 2: Of how likely like a baby that.
29:49
Speaker 3: I like could have would would have as Like, it's
29:53
Speaker 3: really hard because like it's also part of me. And
29:58
Speaker 3: I don't know I would if if I had a
30:00
Speaker 3: magic wand and I could get I don't think I would.
30:03
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like it's hard to say. But it's
30:05
Speaker 3: also obviously made me the person I am, and like
30:09
Speaker 3: mainly the connections that I had in hospital with the
30:16
Speaker 3: nurses and like the doctors, Like I think that's made
30:19
Speaker 3: me who I am. Like I don't know, it's just
30:21
Speaker 3: like it obviously shapes you. So I wouldn't change it,
30:24
Speaker 3: if that makes sense. And there are positives in terms
30:28
Speaker 3: of yeah, you can build community and you can meet
30:30
Speaker 3: new people, and but yeah, I think it's just yeah,
30:36
Speaker 3: it's difficult isn't it.
30:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. An interesting point you make about if you had
30:40
Speaker 1: a magic wand and would you change it? Because I've
30:44
Speaker 1: been through the same question myself and have asked lots
30:47
Speaker 1: of other people that question as well, and for what
30:52
Speaker 1: is essentially a chronic condition where there's not a huge
30:57
Speaker 1: amount of upside certainly to begin with a lot of
31:00
Speaker 1: people that I've spoken to and said, you know, would
31:02
Speaker 1: you change it? A lot of them have said, no,
31:05
Speaker 1: I wouldn't because actually it's made me more resilient. It's
31:09
Speaker 1: there will be so many friends, it's you know, the
31:13
Speaker 1: groups I'm part of, the people I've met, the you know,
31:17
Speaker 1: the opportunities I've had just through having this condition. No, No,
31:21
Speaker 1: I wouldn't change it. Yeah, I find that really really interesting. Yeah.
31:26
Speaker 3: I think, as you say, it becomes part of you
31:28
Speaker 3: and it's hard to imagine what I would be like otherwise.
31:32
Speaker 3: And like it's the same with my like various like
31:35
Speaker 3: mental health issues I've had throughout my life. It's like,
31:39
Speaker 3: I don't think I would change out either, because it's
31:42
Speaker 3: it's all part of me and it's led to like
31:46
Speaker 3: me doing what I want to do in career and
31:48
Speaker 3: like beings.
31:50
Speaker 2: The type of person I am, so I don't.
31:52
Speaker 3: Think it's Yeah, it's definitely like not something I would change,
31:58
Speaker 3: and it's not something that's all negative. It's just something
32:01
Speaker 3: that we have to navigate. And I think the more
32:04
Speaker 3: people that we have to do a bit together.
32:06
Speaker 1: The better, because absolutely it's kind of strengthen numbers. Absolutely
32:11
Speaker 1: in terms of I know you mentioned there about Korea
32:15
Speaker 1: and what you do in terms of your career, because
32:18
Speaker 1: one of the main things of this podcast, or one
32:20
Speaker 1: of the things I wanted to do, was to find
32:23
Speaker 1: people who you know, go on and do you know,
32:27
Speaker 1: really good jobs and careers and things like that, and
32:30
Speaker 1: show maybe people who've just had a child with Hirshbrungs
32:33
Speaker 1: or maybe have a one to three year old with Hirshbrungs.
32:36
Speaker 1: Actually there there's so much that you can do even
32:39
Speaker 1: though you're going through all of this surgery and appointments
32:42
Speaker 1: and all of this that the other look at all
32:46
Speaker 1: these people out here and look at all the wonderful
32:48
Speaker 1: things that they do. So in terms of career, how
32:51
Speaker 1: is yours?
32:55
Speaker 3: Yeah? Good?
32:56
Speaker 2: I think.
32:59
Speaker 3: So. I work in digital marketing for charity, for redistributing
33:03
Speaker 3: charity called fair Share, but I think, yeah, I think
33:10
Speaker 3: as we were saying, like how the conditions like shaped you,
33:13
Speaker 3: I think like it's I've always wanted to do something
33:18
Speaker 3: that helps people in some way, so I've gone into
33:23
Speaker 3: the charity sector.
33:23
Speaker 2: I've worked in a couple of different charities.
33:25
Speaker 3: I work for Comic Relief for a bit, worked at
33:28
Speaker 3: this charity now hopefully I'll still stay in that kind
33:32
Speaker 3: of sector. And I also helped to run community like
33:39
Speaker 3: free community knitting.
33:41
Speaker 2: And crochet sessions.
33:42
Speaker 3: It's a bit running for this context, but god, so yeah,
33:47
Speaker 3: it's called craft Forward. If anyone wants to get involved,
33:49
Speaker 3: google it. But I think, yeah, I think it's maybe
33:55
Speaker 3: I'm just thinking.
33:56
Speaker 2: About this right now, but maybe it is.
33:58
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the more sort of lonely or like
34:01
Speaker 3: slightly isolated you feel, I think you just crave that
34:03
Speaker 3: community and then like go into a career that's like
34:07
Speaker 3: about that, or have hobbies that really like help you
34:10
Speaker 3: build that.
34:11
Speaker 2: And so I think it's related to that.
34:13
Speaker 3: And I'd say in terms of people listening that have
34:17
Speaker 3: young children or babies with the condition and they're like,
34:21
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is a twenty five and a
34:23
Speaker 3: thirty year old talking about it. And I think like
34:27
Speaker 3: one of the things that struck me when I was
34:29
Speaker 3: at the conference is when Simon Kenny came.
34:31
Speaker 2: Up to he was like, oh my gosh, you looks so.
34:33
Speaker 3: Well, And I was like, yeah, like that because I
34:38
Speaker 3: always think, you know, like I've had like body image
34:41
Speaker 3: stuff and like various things. I'm like, I never seen
34:44
Speaker 3: myself in that in the way that he will see me,
34:47
Speaker 3: or doing my parents will see me that like I've
34:49
Speaker 3: got this far, I've survived, I'm looking.
34:53
Speaker 2: Well, I'm looking healthy.
34:54
Speaker 3: So like, I think that's a massive thing that I
34:57
Speaker 3: need to remember, and like a lot of people people, yeah,
35:01
Speaker 3: similarly probably need to remember that they're just thriving by
35:04
Speaker 3: being able to like keep going and keep like baffling
35:09
Speaker 3: through the various like things that they'll be going through,
35:12
Speaker 3: the condition and things like that.
35:14
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and again I say to a lot of people,
35:17
Speaker 1: if people were to see you or I out on
35:21
Speaker 1: the street, they wouldn't know, they wouldn't know we had hirshbrungs.
35:26
Speaker 1: So I mean that's also something again back to the
35:30
Speaker 1: social and mental concept of having a lot of these
35:36
Speaker 1: scars and thinking, oh, you know, body image and et cetera,
35:39
Speaker 1: et cetera. If people see us out and about they
35:44
Speaker 1: wouldn't know, you know. So I think that's something that
35:50
Speaker 1: is really really important when when people get self conscious
35:53
Speaker 1: about scars, people don't know. Notice, people don't recognize, people
35:58
Speaker 1: don't ask, you know, because because they don't know. So
36:03
Speaker 1: I think that's that's a really really important point you make.
36:07
Speaker 1: And the conference as well, one thing that I know
36:11
Speaker 1: we touched on previously. I've spoken to a few people
36:15
Speaker 1: about it and just how much it gave people in
36:18
Speaker 1: terms of support, comfort information. I know you asked a
36:25
Speaker 1: lot of questions as well at the conference, which I
36:28
Speaker 1: thought was fantastic.
36:30
Speaker 3: I put in me any more than were we run
36:32
Speaker 3: out of time, And it was embarrassing because I put
36:36
Speaker 3: in all these questions. I didn't realize they were going
36:38
Speaker 3: to be in a row. So like it's so bad,
36:42
Speaker 3: but I'm glad that we got to APK. But it
36:44
Speaker 3: shows how many questions people have because like there's so
36:48
Speaker 3: many different topics, is like, and also because there's people
36:51
Speaker 3: with babies there who they have questions about like should
36:55
Speaker 3: it should we do the pull through or what much?
36:58
Speaker 3: And then there's like people like me, is like genetics,
37:03
Speaker 3: like do you know what I mean? So it's a
37:04
Speaker 3: huge range, and I think, yeah, people have.
37:07
Speaker 2: A lot of questions, mainly me.
37:09
Speaker 3: Yes, I think asking questions is so important and when
37:14
Speaker 3: you have the chance. But I think that's why not
37:17
Speaker 3: to harp on about it, but like building that sense
37:19
Speaker 3: of community where yeah, we're not going to have the
37:22
Speaker 3: medical answers because I'm not going to have the latest research,
37:25
Speaker 3: but maybe we might be able to give a few
37:27
Speaker 3: tips and tricks that we've learned along the way from
37:30
Speaker 3: just living living with the condition. And I think, sorry,
37:33
Speaker 3: just to go back to like the invisible.
37:37
Speaker 2: Element of it.
37:38
Speaker 3: I think that is also like something that's like people
37:42
Speaker 3: don't talk about a lot, like for example.
37:45
Speaker 2: Like using disabled toilets.
37:46
Speaker 3: One time I was like shouted out by a woman
37:48
Speaker 3: for using a disabled toilet and I was literally holding
37:51
Speaker 3: a radiarchy. So I don't understand what was going on,
37:55
Speaker 3: but I think.
37:57
Speaker 2: The it's definitely improved.
37:59
Speaker 3: I've noted like there's a lot of like signs like
38:02
Speaker 3: on toilet doors saying like invisibility, invisible disabilities exist, things
38:07
Speaker 3: like that, and like people seem to be more understanding.
38:10
Speaker 3: But I think that's just also something like use that
38:14
Speaker 3: disabled toilet if you need to, because like you should
38:17
Speaker 3: and you're very much you have every right to use it,
38:21
Speaker 3: and if it's something that would help, you should do that.
38:24
Speaker 3: And you should contact like your school, your college and
38:27
Speaker 3: work and tell them your accommodations, because that's something that
38:31
Speaker 3: I put like pushed off for a long time and
38:33
Speaker 3: and like if it just makes life a bit easier
38:37
Speaker 3: and like or just is something you need to do, you.
38:39
Speaker 2: Should do it.
38:40
Speaker 1: Yeah. It it's something that I never it never even
38:43
Speaker 1: crossed my mind to do that. And I think certainly
38:47
Speaker 1: for people our age, probably just never throughout our child
38:50
Speaker 1: who probably never even thought, you know, to use the
38:54
Speaker 1: disabled toilets and thought, well, I'm not disabled, you know,
38:58
Speaker 1: and look at it that way, but actually not the
39:00
Speaker 1: right way to look at it at all, and that
39:03
Speaker 1: actually we should be able to And I think that's yeah, No,
39:09
Speaker 1: I think you make a really really good point there.
39:11
Speaker 1: I think that's that's really really interesting. I think you're
39:16
Speaker 1: right when you say, you know they are for us too,
39:19
Speaker 1: and we do have a chronic illness and an invisibile
39:22
Speaker 1: in us I mean lucky us, but we do have both.
39:27
Speaker 1: And I think that's that is something that's that's really
39:30
Speaker 1: really important as we sort of circle around. Towards the
39:34
Speaker 1: end of this, I know we talked, we talked in
39:37
Speaker 1: and out a little bit more about the Buddy system
39:41
Speaker 1: and about how we'd like to see it, you know,
39:47
Speaker 1: grow obviously in terms of people and we I guess
39:52
Speaker 1: we haven't necessarily thought, right, what does it look like
39:55
Speaker 1: in this and what does it look like in that?
39:58
Speaker 1: And I guess we just want to sort of a community.
40:02
Speaker 1: But if anybody's listening to this and they're thinking, oh,
40:06
Speaker 1: actually that that body system sounds like quite a good idea,
40:10
Speaker 1: but might need a bit more info on it, what
40:14
Speaker 1: would you say contact?
40:20
Speaker 2: I guess that's the first bit.
40:21
Speaker 3: So I'm thinking maybe you can put our emails in
40:26
Speaker 3: or people can DM the page and then we can
40:29
Speaker 3: reach out. But I think, yeah, strength in numbers, as
40:33
Speaker 3: you said, as many people want to get involved as possible,
40:37
Speaker 3: and I think it will be just sort of leaning
40:41
Speaker 3: on different people's experties. So like if someone has done
40:45
Speaker 3: this sort of thing before, obviously that would be amazing,
40:48
Speaker 3: or has any links to hospitals that would be able
40:51
Speaker 3: to help us with events and things like that. I
40:54
Speaker 3: think it's just like, as you say, going to be
40:55
Speaker 3: a slow process. But I think it's something that's so meaningful. Well,
40:59
Speaker 3: I hope it is, and I've heard that people are
41:01
Speaker 3: saying that it would be so if you're listening, especially
41:05
Speaker 3: if you're listening and you would want to be one
41:08
Speaker 3: of the buddies, that would be really cool. Like I
41:12
Speaker 3: think it'd be cool to get people that are a
41:15
Speaker 3: bit old, like our age, a bit older, to just
41:19
Speaker 3: be someone.
41:20
Speaker 2: That can might provide support.
41:23
Speaker 3: And again I don't envisigit being like a huge amount
41:27
Speaker 3: of commitment. It's more just like informal being able to
41:30
Speaker 3: have a connection with families of patients and hopefully just
41:36
Speaker 3: provide that like bit of just like feeling less alone
41:40
Speaker 3: and feeling a bit more connective to someone.
41:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, no, I totally agree with that. And then
41:46
Speaker 1: in terms of you and your future, and talk to
41:50
Speaker 1: us a bit about work and about how you know,
41:54
Speaker 1: how you've gone into marketing, how you've worked for various
41:56
Speaker 1: different charities, how you've ended up achieving a heck of
42:01
Speaker 1: a lot in the time that you have and with
42:06
Speaker 1: total klonic hirshprungs as well, what do you see. I
42:09
Speaker 1: know we talked about the Boddy system, but in terms
42:11
Speaker 1: of you personally, what do you want in the future.
42:15
Speaker 2: That's a big question. I'm not sure.
42:19
Speaker 3: I mean, like I've always said, when I was in hospital,
42:24
Speaker 3: there was.
42:26
Speaker 2: An amazing I'm.
42:28
Speaker 3: Not sure what her like job title was, but I
42:30
Speaker 3: just knew her as like Chairley because like that.
42:33
Speaker 2: With her name.
42:34
Speaker 3: But she used to run our activities and like come
42:38
Speaker 3: around and to be honest, mainly as you used to
42:40
Speaker 3: eat the glitser that was.
42:41
Speaker 5: Like the main it's just glittery, But mainly I just
42:49
Speaker 5: she was like absolutely the coolest person ever to me.
42:53
Speaker 3: So I would love to one day run some sort
42:57
Speaker 3: of like art Broat's like crochet knitting thing in hospitals
43:04
Speaker 3: for kids, which would be really cool. But that's like
43:08
Speaker 3: pipe dream vibes and we'll just like keep going on
43:11
Speaker 3: the normal, normal programming for now, but I think that
43:15
Speaker 3: would be really really cool, or just like finding a
43:18
Speaker 3: way to support kids with long term health conditions in
43:23
Speaker 3: some way.
43:24
Speaker 1: Fantastic, excellent, Thank you ever so much for coming on.
43:29
Speaker 1: Just one more thing before we go. Where can people
43:32
Speaker 1: find you? Where can people keep up to date with everything?
43:36
Speaker 2: Yeah?
43:37
Speaker 3: I think just my Instagram if you're going to tag me,
43:41
Speaker 3: and then also feel free to message me on Facebook
43:43
Speaker 3: as well, because I'm on the group, the UK group
43:46
Speaker 3: that I actually think I'm also on the other one
43:47
Speaker 3: as well, but feel free to message me because I'm happy.
43:51
Speaker 2: I usually just copy and paste the.
43:54
Speaker 3: Questions and send them my mum because she's like better answered.
43:58
Speaker 2: I felt like specific quite.
44:00
Speaker 3: But yeah, and also I forgot to say I mentioned
44:03
Speaker 3: Simon Kenny, but if Graham Lamont is listening, he's like
44:06
Speaker 3: my consultant when I was little.
44:08
Speaker 2: He's retired now, but he was.
44:10
Speaker 3: Also like, weirdly when I went to London for the
44:13
Speaker 3: first time when I was sixteen, he was on a
44:15
Speaker 3: massive tube poster. Gave me a slight heart attack. He
44:18
Speaker 3: was like being promoted as one of the doctors. It
44:21
Speaker 3: was just kind of crazy. But if you're listening, yeah,
44:24
Speaker 3: he obviously saved my life, said thank you.
44:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, well hopefully he is listening.
44:30
Speaker 3: I hope him on email and then you will have
44:33
Speaker 3: to let them.
44:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely thanks having me on here as well.
44:38
Speaker 1: No, not at all, Thank you so much for coming on.
44:40
Speaker 1: And yeah, I wish you the very best with your
44:43
Speaker 1: your crocheting and work and everything and health in the future.
44:50
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the podcast. Find us on Instagram.
44:53
Speaker 1: Tom's Underscore Hirschbrung's Underscore podcast. Listen to previous episodes on
44:58
Speaker 1: Spotify by searching Tom hirsh Run's podcast