Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Yes, Women Like Nice Guys!

Transcript

Yes, Women Like Nice Guys! · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi, everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show, thanks to everybody who has subscribed and
• 0:11
  to everybody who hasn't my next one is going to be a
• 0:14
  subscription only paid episode. So please click on the
• 0:18
  Subscribe, Link in my podcast description so that you have
• 0:23
  access to all of the ones that I am going to do.
• 0:26
  So today, I am doing a reader suggestion on nice guys, and do
• 0:32
  women really like nice guys. He says that.
• 0:34
  Tell men to be nice and I can link you to the post.
• 0:37
  He's probably talking about, but when does this Veer into nice
• 0:41
  guy syndrome, which is something that I had to look up.
• 0:46
  And it is an author who writes for men.
• 0:49
  I forget the name talking about something that I call the
• 0:54
  Workhorse. So my, my view of that is the
• 0:57
  Workhorse. So I could link you to that, but
• 0:59
  he says, the guys need to watch out for this nice guy syndrome
• 1:02
  where they feel like if they're really quote nice.
• 1:04
  Yes. And they do everything for
• 1:05
  somebody especially a woman then they should get their needs met
• 1:08
  in return and that's like a covert contract.
• 1:12
  Yeah, well that's not being very nice.
• 1:16
  I mean, women do like nice guys. Of course, this reminds me of
• 1:20
  like my other podcast and host on.
• 1:24
  Wyatt's some bullshit myth that men don't like high-achieving
• 1:27
  and high earning women. I don't know many guys who would
• 1:30
  not like their wife to say, hey guess what?
• 1:33
  Like, I'm going to be making three times.
• 1:34
  This is much next year you know, and if there are such guys,
• 1:38
  they're pretty insecure and it's their problem.
• 1:42
  You know, not like anything about what the average man is
• 1:44
  like, the average woman wants a nice guy.
• 1:48
  What I mean by nice is loving caring.
• 1:51
  Affectionate and considerate. I do not mean somebody who's
• 1:54
  trying to take all the work off her plate so that he can get
• 1:58
  late. And if there are couvert
• 2:00
  contracts like this, this is not what I mean by a nice guy.
• 2:03
  This is more of a work. Horse or a people pleaser now.
• 2:06
  Usually men like this, grew up with a self-absorbed parent.
• 2:11
  Who did not allow them the time or the emotional space, or the
• 2:18
  air time to talk about their own needs or wants the parents
• 2:22
  wants, or needs took up everything, and their job was to
• 2:26
  be a good boy. And with women, I call it more
• 2:28
  of a people pleaser and I could link to an article.
• 2:32
  I wrote about that and they And to be very good, both genders,
• 2:37
  learn to be very good because otherwise this self-absorbed
• 2:41
  parent would be even more distressed than overwhelmed than
• 2:46
  they already are. So your job is to not have any
• 2:49
  needs, not put anything on their plate and then maybe they'll be
• 2:52
  nice to you. And so if you grew up like this,
• 2:57
  always being the high achiever, always being the good kid, The
• 3:00
  Golden Child because you could not Be otherwise because
• 3:06
  implicitly you felt that this is the only thing that makes your
• 3:09
  parent. Be nice to you or be less
• 3:11
  stressed or not. Be completely consumed with, you
• 3:15
  know overwhelm, then you're doing this now.
• 3:19
  No matter your gender in your relationship if you don't
• 3:22
  introspect about it. So a little boy, that was his
• 3:25
  mommy's favorite son because he was so good and what being good
• 3:30
  was, was taking care of his younger siblings, never having a
• 3:33
  need or a want. Want and getting straight A's
• 3:37
  and excelling at sports or a few of those, not all of them,
• 3:40
  whatever. Then the mommy was nice and then
• 3:44
  he was the favorite. So now he thinks if he just does
• 3:46
  the same thing makes enough money, act, nice enough does
• 3:50
  everything that his wife needs then she's supposed to love him
• 3:54
  to. It's the same contract that
• 3:56
  doesn't work like that because women are not stupid.
• 4:00
  Nor are men. Everybody can tell when they're
• 4:03
  being handled or a appeased or placated and everyone can tell
• 4:08
  when they are being manipulated so that they respond a certain
• 4:12
  way. So yeah, like I tell people to
• 4:15
  be super open about why they do stuff.
• 4:19
  So like if you're listening to this podcast because you want to
• 4:22
  work on your marriage, tell that to your wife don't like listen
• 4:26
  to this podcast and take my tips.
• 4:27
  And then like kind of like just act completely different like a
• 4:31
  pod person. And when she's like, why are you
• 4:33
  so different? Your life?
• 4:34
  I don't know. No, no, no, no, always be
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  honest. So for example, if a man, if a
• 4:40
  man says his wife, I want to have more sex than we're having
• 4:43
  it. She's like, well, maybe we would
• 4:44
  have more sex if you did more around the house.
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  So then you could be like, all right, what do you want me to do
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  around the house? I'll do more stuff around the
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  house, then maybe you'll have energy to have sex.
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  This is a wonderful conversation.
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  This is overt. That's an overt contract.
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  I like that contract that makes sense because she could also be
• 5:00
  like nothing, there's nothing you could do, you know, and then
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  If she was honest about that, then that would be another
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  honest conversation that could go potentially down a different
• 5:11
  direction. But at least everybody in this
• 5:13
  is worthy of respect, right? Nobody's lying.
• 5:16
  But if the guy tries to like back door, like, oh, I'm gonna
• 5:21
  like, you know, try to figure out that if she had less to do
• 5:27
  than, we would have more sex. And so I'm gonna like, go do a
• 5:29
  whole bunch of stuff and then look at her like we should have
• 5:32
  sex. She's gonna be like this.
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  Our kids only doing this to get laid, and he's not even
• 5:37
  admitting it. Like, that's the most insulting
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  part, you know. It's like, do you think I'm
• 5:43
  stupid? Like, why are you trying to
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  manipulate me? And that's when women say, oh,
• 5:48
  good job, doing half of the housework in your own fucking
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  house or good job watching your own kids, right?
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  Because if there is going to be a contract in marriage, it
• 5:58
  should be explicit and it should be agreed on by both people.
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  There used to be more of an Explicit, marital contract that
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  the woman took care of the home and the man worked outside the
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  home. If he were to have lost his job,
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  that would be a very, very big deal, you know.
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  And it wouldn't be like, he would think necessarily his wife
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  would stand by him, no matter what.
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  If he decides not to work, because that was his job, and
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  she would not think that if I'm part of, you know, it was sex
• 6:27
  too. So a woman didn't used to think
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  that if she didn't have sex anymore with her husband, then
• 6:32
  he would stay faithful. These things were more overt
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  contract but so then it wasn't as nobody fell gaslighted as
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  much as nowadays when it's more overt, because people aren't
• 6:45
  allowed to say, I don't know why I want them to everyone
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  listening to this should say if they do, I expect sex in this
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  marriage and then the woman could say, all right, well, I
• 6:56
  expect x y, z in this marriage, these sorts of things in couples
• 7:00
  counseling are stated as overt contract, like we are Going to
• 7:05
  be nice to each other. Okay, we agree to that.
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  We are not going to yell in front of the kids.
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  There is an overt contract. All the woman's going to try to
• 7:13
  get in the mood three times a week.
• 7:15
  Now there's an overt contract. He's going to do a shitload more
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  of the cleaning if he does zero right?
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  Whatever overt contracts are fine you could be a nice guy and
• 7:26
  also asked for an overt contract.
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  Like I want to have sex a couple times a week.
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  You can say, what can I do to make that happen?
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  Whatever. But what you shouldn't do is
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  pretend that you're just being nice.
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  And then somehow think that because you're being nice, then
• 7:45
  you get laid. When she didn't agree to that,
• 7:48
  she didn't agree to that. So she's going to feel handled
• 7:51
  and manipulate it. So being a nice guy and being a
• 7:55
  confident guy and an assertive guide.
• 7:57
  None of those are orthogonal. Those are not mutually
• 8:00
  exclusive. I don't mean that like a nice
• 8:03
  guy needs to be passed. The old contraire, nobody likes
• 8:07
  passive. So I don't mean that he has to
• 8:10
  do everything that his wife says.
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  But I do think he has to do some stuff.
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  As wife says, Brady has to be agreeable in the way that he
• 8:17
  would with a friend, you know. Like with and I, you know, I
• 8:21
  could link you to stuff I write about this but like a lot of
• 8:23
  guys play Devil's Advocate with their wives in a way that they
• 8:26
  never would at work, you know. Like you're not going to be like
• 8:30
  like your boss isn't going to say to you.
• 8:32
  Hey, how about we All that meeting for 9:00 and you're not
• 8:36
  gonna be like 9:00 is that really what you think 9:00 would
• 8:39
  work? Because personally, you know
• 8:41
  what I think is that 10:00, you're not going to be a dick,
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  you know? And so a lot of guys could
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  inflate like being nice with being passive but it's not the
• 8:52
  same thing. What I'm saying is don't be an
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  asshole. That's really what I mean, by
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  nice. You could be as big an alpha
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  male as you want have as many interests, overtly stated,
• 9:03
  contracts, whatever. For the hell you want but don't
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  be covert, don't be passive-aggressive, don't be
• 9:09
  passive. No one likes this other males
• 9:12
  aren't going to like to interact a man who does that with a man
• 9:15
  who does that. And women certainly don't either
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  the same thing for women. Women should not be passive
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  aggressive and making covert contracts either.
• 9:24
  Women should never say, oh, you know, maybe like I want to get,
• 9:29
  you know, have sex more. If you did, more around the
• 9:31
  house and then he does it and then he doesn't get laid back.
• 9:34
  That's terrible. You would never do that to your
• 9:37
  child about something you wouldn't say oh I guess if
• 9:40
  somebody gets an A+ then they might get ten dollars and I mean
• 9:43
  I don't think you should reward with grades anyway but run with
• 9:47
  my example but and then the kid comes home with an A+ in your
• 9:50
  like just kidding. Like that would be being
• 9:53
  horrible, right? That would set your kid up to
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  hate people. So it's the same thing with your
• 9:58
  husband, you know? If you say and you imply, that
• 10:01
  if he does more, then he will get laid.
• 10:04
  No, no. Then you actually have to have
• 10:06
  sex with him, you know. Joke's on you.
• 10:08
  Right? So you actually have to do that,
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  you have to do what you say. So a nice guy is kind, he's
• 10:15
  loving. He's affectionate, he's
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  considerate, he could still have his own preferences on things
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  but like if she's really upset by something you're doing be
• 10:22
  nice and like talk to her about it, don't be an asshole.
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  That is what I mean, I don't mean anything about covert
• 10:30
  contract or angling to get your way if you just Do enough shit
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  then somehow she has to do something else.
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  No, that is not being a nice guy at all.
• 10:40
  Now, this brings us to the point of what how can you tell if you
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  are being nice. Truly, or if you are being nice
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  because of this covert contract stuff, well interrogate your own
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  motivations very openly when you do something.
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  So if you're a guy, you take your wife's.
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  Car in to get the oil change. Are you thinking that?
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  This means that she owes you something, because if so, don't
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  do it, don't do it. At least be honest, because
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  you're not doing it for the right reasons as they say on
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  reality TV, like The Bachelorette.
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  Are you here for the right reasons?
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  Meaning love versus Fame. That's what they mean, they're
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  here. Are you doing it?
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  Because her love language is acts of service and you guys
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  just read the Love Languages book and you want to be nice?
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  Or are you doing it? Because you think Think that she
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  knows somehow that if she has a oil changed, and that means that
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  you're supposed to get six. Don't do it then, that is not
• 11:43
  nice. That is not nice.
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  So, in fact, the nice guy syndrome involves a whole bunch
• 11:48
  of not nice. Behaviors, do things for your
• 11:51
  spouse, either with a full heart or because of an overt contract.
• 11:58
  So like if you're going to pick your kids up from school so that
• 12:02
  your wife can go get a manicure, That because you are going to be
• 12:06
  nice to her. Not because you think that, then
• 12:09
  you'll get laid, or you can just try to say, hey, if I pick up
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  the kids from school, you get a manicure and you're in a good
• 12:16
  mood, then, you know, I hope that then I will get a little
• 12:20
  action later and I somebody in my private group said that her
• 12:25
  husband says little jokes like this, and it actually does make
• 12:28
  it likely or that he gets laid. Why?
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  Because it's not some bullshit manipulative behind the And
• 12:34
  shit, right? It's over.
• 12:37
  It's like, literally, if I do this, I am hoping for this and
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  then she could do it, or she could not do it.
• 12:43
  You could say, well, you know what?
• 12:44
  You're not getting laid tonight, no matter what.
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  So I'll skip my manicure or she could be within her rights to
• 12:49
  say, hey I picked up the kids like every day and I want to get
• 12:53
  a manicure so I'd like you to do it just to be nice and if you
• 12:56
  spend, you could say re-evaluate and say you're right, I'll do it
• 13:01
  anyway. Go enjoy your manicure, right?
• 13:03
  So that would be a Sky the idea of doing things so that people
• 13:08
  like you is like the opposite of being a confident, assertive
• 13:12
  person, do things to be a kind. Good, ethical human being so
• 13:18
  don't do things because you're going to get a pat on the head.
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  And this is a big learning curve for a lot of men.
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  Particularly if they grew up as like the good boy golden child,
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  they're doing things frequently for pat on the head or for
• 13:31
  approval without even knowing it and This is easily picked up on
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  by women, and this seems, you know, like a little kid like
• 13:39
  seems like you have enough kids, why do you need to give another
• 13:42
  one, a pat on the head and it's annoying.
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  If people are doing things though to be nice and good and
• 13:49
  ethical humans, usually that engenders, a feeling of respect
• 13:54
  and admiration from whoever the onlooker is, especially the
• 13:58
  wife. So why don't you think about
• 14:01
  this in terms of how it impacts your day-to-day?
• 14:04
  Functioning and really do a deep dive on.
• 14:07
  Whether you are a nice guy or not.
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  Are you a guy who is doing this covert contract thing that I'll
• 14:13
  link you to that this guy talks about?
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  Or are you doing things out of the goodness of your heart
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  because frequently people who do things out of the goodness of
• 14:21
  their heart get rewarded in Myriad ways naturally through
• 14:25
  life. It's like there's fake news that
• 14:29
  people who are popular, are mean that isn't real.
• 14:32
  That comes out of the movie, Heathers.
• 14:34
  Like that isn't usually write. In fact, sociological
• 14:37
  psychological research. Say the most popular kids are
• 14:41
  the ones who are the kindest nicest ones, always, they'll be
• 14:44
  somebody in the group who gets in there who's an asshole,
• 14:46
  right? But overall, the main effect is
• 14:50
  the link. Is that being a kind?
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  Good person and nice to other people is associated with
• 14:55
  popularity and it's the same thing.
• 14:58
  Those people aren't being nice to everybody because they'll get
• 15:02
  something you know like the popular girl.
• 15:04
  Nice to the guy who's at the bottom of the social totem pole,
• 15:07
  because he's going to give her anything, she's just a nice
• 15:10
  girl, and that's how she got popular in the first place.
• 15:13
  And people who are nice, by the way, in that naturally, usually
• 15:17
  grew up in very functional, loving healthy homes, where it
• 15:20
  was a value to be kind to others, whether that was a
• 15:23
  religious value or just a secular value of the home, you
• 15:27
  know? And so if you are listening to
• 15:29
  this, as a parent which most of you are training, your children
• 15:32
  to be nice to others without any.
• 15:34
  Overt contracts. Don't see things like, oh, well
• 15:37
  if you're nice to such and such, then maybe you'll get to go to
• 15:39
  the birthday party or, you know, you should always be nice to
• 15:42
  your teacher because then, you know, you'll be likely to get a
• 15:45
  good grade. No, it's you should be nice to
• 15:48
  everybody in your class, you know, be kind.
• 15:51
  So many parents. Nowadays are more like, watch
• 15:54
  out for your back, make sure that nobody's taken advantage of
• 15:57
  you. Make sure your needs and
• 15:58
  preferences are being adhered to to the minutest detail, by
• 16:03
  everybody around you. Yeah, that's going to make your
• 16:05
  kid real popular. No, it's not try to.
• 16:09
  It's only the people that are in a position of genuine power,
• 16:12
  that feel authentically confident that they have power
• 16:16
  and agency in the world who can be benevolent or charitable to
• 16:20
  others in any way. It's people that feel very weak
• 16:24
  that always have to be paranoid about.
• 16:26
  Making sure that everything is Even Steven and what are they
• 16:29
  going to get for what they give? So you want to raise children
• 16:32
  and to yourself. Be Somebody who could just be
• 16:35
  kind because you have that self-esteem and a confidence in
• 16:39
  yourself that says, hey, I'm a pretty good person.
• 16:42
  My life is pretty good, you know.
• 16:44
  So I should kind of give back and everybody else's life isn't
• 16:47
  as great. Maybe this person needs a smile,
• 16:50
  maybe that person needs a little help with this may be my spouse,
• 16:53
  could use a little help with XYZ my kid.
• 16:55
  Looks like he could use some attention, whatever that
• 16:58
  internal confidence. I have things going pretty well,
• 17:02
  and so I'm going to kind of give back.
• 17:04
  Is to the world. That is an extremely attractive
• 17:07
  magnetic trait in general. And if you feel that your life
• 17:11
  is not in any way, so good that you could feel this in your
• 17:15
  heart and do it. What am I going to say?
• 17:18
  Everybody starts with a T therapy.
• 17:21
  If you work on yourself in therapy, then you could
• 17:24
  potentially get to have this level of internal confidence and
• 17:28
  strength from which genuine niceness and kindness flows.
• 17:32
  More effortlessly. Because you genuinely want
• 17:36
  others to feel as good as you feel, alright?
• 17:38
  So, I hope that this was, you know, mind-expanding in some way
• 17:42
  or another. If it was, please click on
• 17:45
  subscribe so that you hear my next podcast and I will my next
• 17:49
  one's going to be on neediness versus expressing needs.
• 17:53
  So that was another idea by the same person and I will talk to
• 17:57
  everybody soon. Bye, bye.