Latest / Find Your Edge: Training, Nutrition + Longevity for Endurance Athletes / Post-Race Blues After Ironman: What the Research Says (and How to Prevent It) Ep 131

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Post-Race Blues After Ironman: What the Research Says (and How to Prevent It) Ep 131 · Find Your Edge: Training, Nutrition + Longevity for Endurance Athletes

0:37
Coach Carlie: Welcome back to the Find Your Edge podcast.
0:40
Coach Carlie: I am your host, Coach Chris Newport, and I am here with Dr.
0:45
Coach Carlie: Carly Frost Poirier.
0:47
Coach Carlie: Am I saying that right?
0:48
Coach Carlie: I always feel like I code your last name.
0:50
Coach Chris: All the ways work.
0:51
Coach Chris: I'm used to it.
0:53
Coach Chris: You called me Carly and not Charlie, so it was a good start.
0:57
Coach Carlie: Okay.
0:57
Coach Carlie: Good gracious.
0:59
Coach Carlie: So if you've heard Carly on the podcast before, which I hope you have because she is a brilliant mind that I am so grateful to have on our team.
1:07
Coach Carlie: She just finished her dissertation and I was like, can we please talk about this on the podcast?
1:11
Coach Carlie: And she's like, oh my gosh, I would like to throw it all away and like take a break from it.
1:17
Coach Carlie: So you guys have to be super patient, and I'm gonna try to extract as much greatness out of her after she's like, Can I just take a nap for the next year?
1:27
Coach Carlie: Right.
1:27
Coach Chris: Yes, yeah.
1:29
Coach Chris: I think I'm I think I'm still less than a month out from having defended my dissertation.
1:35
Coach Chris: So yeah, I haven't quite digested and I don't know basked in the glory of graduation just yet, maybe, but we'll we'll chat.
1:45
Coach Chris: I hope I have some useful things or at least interesting tidbits for you guys, and I don't know.
1:50
Coach Chris: We'll see what Chris asked me.
1:51
Coach Chris: We'll we'll go from there.
1:53
Coach Carlie: I find the irony so thick that you're coming off like your dissertation was about coming off of Iron Man.
2:03
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
2:03
Coach Carlie: And the irony that you're coming off of dissertation, probably feeling the same way.
2:08
Coach Carlie: Absolutely.
2:08
Coach Carlie: So give us the nerdy tie title and let's go from there.
2:14
Coach Chris: My my official dissertation title is Predicting Post-Race Blues, the role of passion, goal satisfaction, and life balance.
2:23
Coach Chris: So I researched long course traffics, both 70.3 and 140.6 distance, and looked at a couple possible predictors of what could be contributing to the occurrence of post-race blues in those athletes.
2:42
Coach Carlie: So what got you what got you interested in this topic?
2:46
Coach Carlie: What made you think, you know what?
2:47
Coach Carlie: I'm gonna dive real deep into this.
2:51
Coach Chris: Because I experienced the post-race blues.
2:54
Coach Chris: That was my first one.
2:56
Coach Carlie: Like yeah, because you you've done several Iron Man, which is amazing.
3:01
Coach Carlie: So tell us about that experience.
3:07
Coach Chris: Which one?
3:08
Coach Chris: Yes.
3:09
Coach Chris: Well, honestly, to that point, so I have crossed the finish line of two full distance trathons, and I have DNF'd a full distance trathon.
3:19
Coach Chris: And my experience in both of those scenarios uh have context into this study, actually, and like our goals and and how we're viewing how we did in those events.
3:32
Coach Chris: Uh, so that's why I I was pausing on if I get into that part now or if I sort of save it for a little bit later.
3:38
Coach Chris: Uh, you you caught my brain buffering there.
3:40
Coach Chris: But I did my first full back in 2016, and I was in my my mid-20s back then.
3:50
Coach Chris: So I was young and naive.
3:55
Coach Chris: No, but I I I wasn't a mom yet.
3:58
Coach Chris: I was, yeah, I don't know, I was just in my 20s, married, I had a job, and I randomly decided I want to do triathlon.
4:06
Coach Chris: If you again, if y'all have know anything about me or heard any of my stories, not to be super redundant, but that's more or less how I got into triathlon was I decided I wanted to do an Iron Man, and I didn't even know that like a sprint distance triathlon existed.
4:19
Coach Chris: I saw Kona on the TV and was like, that's cool.
4:22
Coach Chris: I'm I'm gonna do one of those.
4:24
Coach Chris: And then realized that like I actually needed to be good to be able to do the one I was seeing on TV.
4:29
Coach Chris: But, anyways, train for an Iron Man.
4:32
Coach Chris: I experienced the post-trace blues afterwards, which sort of to provide a brief definition is sort of this period of time where you feel a little bit lost, maybe your mood's a little down, sort of some like light depressive experiences.
4:50
Coach Chris: We're not in a clinical realm where we're in a full-blown depression, but we're just sort of having this lower experience from a situation.
4:59
Coach Chris: And you may have heard about the blues in in other contexts, such as like the post-baby blues after you have a baby, the post-Olympic blues, naturally, if you've heard of those, a little bit more heavier research than other areas, but just sort of this period of time where you're in a little bit of uh a lower mood after a big life event, basically.
5:20
Coach Chris: And so my my personal experience, and then after a few years in Trathlon, I got into coaching and kind of also had a bigger community than I had when I was training on my own and realized that it was it was more common than I realized, and a lot more athletes were experiencing it.
5:37
Coach Chris: So when it came time in school, they told us to pick a topic we were passionate about and sort of see where the research in that area was and how we could contribute to it.
5:47
Coach Chris: I knew that this was a passion point for me, and that's how I ended up here.
5:53
Coach Carlie: Wow, that was a long time.
5:55
Coach Carlie: I mean, obviously you dug super deeply into this, but it's I feel like it is a topic that a lot of us don't talk about.
6:03
Coach Carlie: Like, like you, like I saw Aaron Man Kona and like Coach Marty too.
6:07
Coach Carlie: R Man Kona on TV, like I'm gonna do that.
6:10
Coach Carlie: And then you don't necessarily consider like, oh my gosh, how much training is this gonna take?
6:15
Coach Carlie: And then, you know, yes, is race day gonna feel hard?
6:21
Coach Carlie: Yeah, but then are you gonna feel super accomplished afterwards?
6:24
Coach Carlie: Yes, and then what the heck happens after that?
6:30
Coach Carlie: So did you find in your research that other than you know, like you had mentioned postpartum blues and post-Olympics and things like that, that this is a somewhat quiet topic?
6:43
Coach Chris: Like it's a less research topic than I was expecting.
6:49
Coach Chris: I'll say that.
6:50
Coach Chris: So again, having my personal experience and then seeing others, and you know, I Googled it.
6:56
Coach Chris: What like what else do you do when you're trying to learn about something, right?
6:58
Coach Chris: Uh in a non-academic setting where this is like an official situation, but I Googled it.
7:04
Coach Chris: And you'll find articles, not like actual research literature articles, but like um, you know, Runner's World article and and those types of I don't know what the word I'm looking for is, but the the non-research type of an article that you would read, like a blog.
7:21
Coach Carlie: Anecdotal story, you know, anecdotal information.
7:24
Coach Chris: So um I I found those and was sort of operating my discussions off of that.
7:30
Coach Chris: But then when it came time to writing my lit review for my research proposal and trying to find actual articles on this topic, in the context of Long Course Trathlon, there's a handful that have been published.
7:47
Coach Chris: A handful.
7:48
Coach Chris: Most of what you're able to find on Post Race Blues is in relation to runners, more specifically at the marathon distance, is where the bulk of that research is.
7:58
Coach Chris: So there's some of that that carries over, right?
8:01
Coach Chris: But we also know that running a marathon and racing a full Iron Man is a very drastically different physical and mental feats.
8:10
Coach Chris: That's not to say anything about marathon runners, don't come for me, my runner friends.
8:14
Coach Chris: Running a marathon is hard.
8:16
Coach Chris: Running an Iron Man is hard.
8:18
Coach Chris: Okay.
8:18
Coach Chris: They're but they're both hard.
8:19
Coach Carlie: That doesn't make any one person or group of people better or worse than the other.
8:24
Coach Carlie: Yeah, we're all doing amazing hard things for ourselves.
8:26
Coach Carlie: Yes.
8:27
Coach Carlie: Cool.
8:28
Coach Chris: From a research perspective, that means we have a lot more context into a marathon and a lot less context into Long Course Charathon when we're talking about this phenomenon.
8:38
Coach Chris: Similarly, when we look at like post-olympic blues, there's a body of research.
8:44
Coach Chris: It it's all relatively new research.
8:47
Coach Chris: In the in the research world, it's baby research.
8:50
Coach Chris: It's only been, you know, looking into it for maybe the last decade.
8:53
Coach Chris: And those of y'all that have written any sort of paper know that unless it's recent, it's just it's baby research.
9:00
Coach Chris: We're still fresh and learning about it.
9:01
Coach Chris: All that to say, the the background in long course, there's not a lot of it.
9:08
Coach Chris: So I I had to sort of piece together from uh post-olympic research and marathon running research and and apply what we could into triathlon and sort of take it from there.
9:21
Coach Carlie: Yeah, fascinating.
9:22
Coach Carlie: Of course, the Olympics are on right now, which I am personally obsessed with, as I will probably say about a million times more.
9:30
Coach Carlie: And the extreme highs or lows that we can witness just as non-Olympic athletes.
9:40
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
9:40
Coach Carlie: In my head, I'm an Olympic athlete, but not in actuality.
9:45
Coach Carlie: But then I'm thinking, like, golly, that is a lot to go through.
9:51
Coach Carlie: And to the same end, so is doing an Iron Man.
9:56
Coach Carlie: Now, granted, there's typically not this, like, you know, world platform, unless you're Kona.
10:01
Coach Carlie: So it again, something that we don't necessarily think about.
10:05
Coach Carlie: And then what happens on the back end?
10:08
Coach Carlie: Like, is is in Olympic athletes, is it super common?
10:12
Coach Chris: Uh, I'm not it's difficult to say because it's not necessarily looked at across all Olympic athletes where we have necessarily a specific X percentage of Olympic athletes experience this.
10:26
Coach Chris: It's usually the ones that come forward or seek help, and then we're like, okay, there's clearly a subset here.
10:31
Coach Chris: What I I'll add to that is when you think about all the possible things that can contribute to something like this, right?
10:38
Coach Chris: We all come into the sport, and I'll I'll keep this specific to long course and my study, but we come into the sport with with other and different responsibilities in life, which makes our adaptation into training different.
10:55
Coach Chris: So you might be someone that has a lot on their plate and you're absolutely new to swimming and cycling.
11:01
Coach Chris: So you have a little bit extra to learn and an extra put to put into training, plus you're juggling more in life.
11:07
Coach Chris: And then some of us are retired and we've been in the sport a long time.
11:12
Coach Chris: And, you know, picking up volume for Iron Man is a little less cumbersome in that regard, right?
11:17
Coach Chris: So as I looked through the research and sort of selecting more or less which avenues and which predictors I wanted to look at for my study, I landed on passion subtypes, life balance.
11:30
Coach Chris: I'm sure that's sending up some flags for people already, and goal satisfaction.
11:35
Coach Chris: And I opted to go with goal satisfaction versus goal achievement because as a coach, you know, we often have athletes that will achieve their goal and still not be super happy with it, which is a fun nuance to all of you overachieving athletes.
11:49
Coach Chris: Or, or it's, you know, occasionally we get the opposite too.
11:52
Coach Chris: We didn't achieve the goal, but we're still really happy with XYZ.
11:55
Coach Chris: And overall, we're able to have this more optimistic uh outlook towards it, which is great.
12:01
Coach Chris: And I appreciate all of you that are able to do that.
12:03
Coach Chris: But you are sort of more in the lower category of that.
12:07
Coach Chris: Most people land on the I achieved my goal and I'm still really hungry and I still want to accomplish all these other things.
12:12
Coach Chris: And I don't necessarily take the time to appreciate that.
12:16
Coach Chris: All that to say, I went with satisfaction versus achievement in this situation.
12:21
Coach Chris: So, how do I actually feel about the outcome of what I wanted to get out of Iron Man?
12:25
Coach Chris: Am I feeling good about it?
12:26
Coach Chris: Am I not feeling so great about it, regardless of if I achieved it or not?
12:31
Coach Chris: And to your point, I also looked at it, it is a longitudinal study.
12:34
Coach Chris: So I took two data points.
12:37
Coach Chris: One was in within three to seven days post their race, because the research shows that that's when our blues period peaks.
12:45
Coach Chris: And then the the research also shows that we tend to return to baseline within 30 days of our event.
12:52
Coach Chris: So we sort of have this uh this ramp up within that one week, and then a little bit mixed review on how quickly we return back to our baseline, but usually within that 30 days.
13:03
Coach Chris: So I looked at that three to seven day window to hopefully catch any peaks.
13:08
Coach Chris: And then I followed up 30 days after that, sort of did a retest.
13:13
Coach Chris: So I do have some data to look at it over time, and we can kind of get into what all that.
13:19
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
13:20
Coach Carlie: So how many um how many humans did you?
13:24
Coach Chris: I ended up with just over 200 participants that took my initial survey.
13:29
Coach Chris: Yeah, it was.
13:30
Coach Chris: I had I had good strong numbers, which was great.
13:33
Coach Chris: And and all eight, like age range, gender.
13:37
Coach Chris: Great questions.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:39
Coach Chris: Um, I surprisingly and relatively unintentionally, I ended up with about 54% females uh for my participants, which in from Iron Man's reports, generally speaking, we are looking at about somewhere between 20 and 25 percent female participants for 70.3s, and then that drops to like 18-ish, 15% for long course.
14:09
Coach Chris: So I ended up with a higher percentage of females than is sort of indicative of a general race balance between genders, which was interesting.
14:19
Coach Chris: It didn't impact my results from like a significance standpoint, but it is something that I think in the future would be worth sparsing out more to continue looking into this topic.
14:31
Coach Chris: My age groups, uh, I also looked at experience level.
14:36
Coach Chris: Was this their first long course, uh, you know, two to four long course, five plus long course experience wise?
14:43
Coach Chris: Uh, and we were real uh across the board with all of them.
14:46
Coach Chris: So our age groups were pretty indicative of like what a sample size would look like from a typical long course event uh experience level was was the same.
14:55
Coach Chris: So other than that, gender split being a little bit off everything was pretty.
14:59
Coach Chris: I think my biggest age group was the 40 to 45, 40, 45 to 49.
15:03
Coach Chris: So again, very uh very on point with what a race sample would look like.
15:08
Coach Carlie: Yeah, fascinating.
15:09
Coach Carlie: All right.
15:10
Coach Carlie: So they took this survey three to seven days after a race.
15:14
Coach Carlie: Yep.
15:14
Coach Carlie: And then you followed up about 30 days later.
15:16
Coach Chris: Yep, 30 days later.
15:17
Coach Chris: And I also added in my my follow-up, I also had some qualitative questions, and I haven't um because I ended up with so many participants, which is wonderful and lovely, have a lot of data to go through.
15:29
Coach Chris: So in my defense, actually, we sort of quote unquote scrapped the qualitative side of things, and I haven't fully dove into frankly reading them because I had over a hundred respondents in the follow-up, which was also really great.
15:42
Coach Chris: So in the turnaround time of sort of processing all this data and trying to graduate in time, we're sort of saving that for a secondary study from from what I gathered.
15:55
Coach Chris: But I did a hierarchical regression for the for my independent variables.
16:00
Coach Chris: I guess let me define to you.
16:02
Coach Chris: So passion was split using the dualistic model of passion.
16:07
Coach Chris: So there is harmonious passion and obsessive passion.
16:09
Coach Chris: And that distinction is important, one because the questionnaire sort of divided everyone into those buckets.
16:16
Coach Chris: What was your harmonious passion level and what was your obsessive passion?
16:20
Coach Chris: And the definition for those is sort of what you would imagine.
16:24
Coach Chris: Harmonious is when we're able to autonomously integrate our sport into our identity and our lifestyle.
16:32
Coach Chris: We feel the sort of quote unquote freedom to train when we want, train when we don't want.
16:38
Coach Chris: It feels very in line with our values and sort of what we're doing and all of that.
16:43
Coach Chris: And then the obsessively passionate part, again, obsessive, right?
16:47
Coach Chris: It feels sort of forced.
16:49
Coach Chris: We feel like we have to do the things uh or we're not going to be able to be in the sport.
16:54
Coach Chris: We're over-identifying.
16:56
Coach Chris: It's feeling very forced.
16:57
Coach Chris: And I'm sure those are.
17:10
Coach Chris: Oh, absolutely not.
17:10
Coach Carlie: No.
17:11
Coach Chris: Yeah.
17:11
Coach Chris: But I I think it's a valid point.
17:14
Coach Chris: And as a side note, I've been looking into that research just out of personal nerdiness.
17:18
Coach Chris: So maybe we'll talk about that another time.
17:20
Coach Chris: Yeah, totally, totally.
17:21
Coach Chris: But but yes, where we have this like we lose that autonomy part and we feel like we we have this necessary urge.
17:29
Coach Chris: And whether that is something that is happening from within us, or maybe we have outside influences that are sort of drawing us in.
17:38
Coach Chris: That this can also fall into the category of like, all my friends are doing it, so now I'm doing it.
17:43
Coach Chris: And we don't really have that doing it for ourselves part.
17:47
Coach Chris: We have that that sort of forcedness into it, if that makes sense.
17:51
Coach Chris: So we have those two types of passion that we're getting out of this group of surveys that people took.
17:57
Coach Chris: And then we have a total life balance score.
18:01
Coach Chris: So as you can imagine, that is a a range of I feel super balanced to everything is a hot mess.
18:08
Coach Chris: And then our goal of satisfaction also.
18:11
Coach Carlie: Is that your exact question that you asked people?
18:13
Coach Carlie: Is everything a hot mess?
18:14
Coach Chris: Pretty much, yeah.
18:17
Coach Chris: But it does, it did uh the questionnaire range, right, from different areas of our life.
18:22
Coach Chris: But overall, again, thinking of the different roles that we have, whether it's work or at home, or maybe you're involved in organized religion, like the different avenues that we have and how are we balancing them?
18:36
Coach Chris: Are we contributing as much as we would like to?
18:39
Coach Chris: And those sorts of things.
18:40
Coach Chris: And we looked at the life balance, it was 30 days prior.
18:43
Coach Chris: So in that peak time of training, what did our life balance look like and how were we feeling about it?
18:49
Coach Chris: And then goal satisfaction, of course, being related to that specific race that they were using as their marker for the survey.
18:56
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
18:56
Coach Carlie: So you've got the passion part, you've got the life balance part, and then you also talked about goal satisfaction.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:03
Coach Carlie: So those were like the three big realms of what you researched.
19:07
Coach Carlie: How how long did these did they roughly take?
19:11
Coach Carlie: Like how long were those surveys?
19:12
Coach Chris: Uh, I think those surveys averaged like eight minutes, but it was 10 to 12.
19:17
Coach Chris: For the life survey in particular, that one I you learn a lot when you do your first research study.
19:25
Coach Chris: Um and in survey selection, and certainly a big one that I'll be interested if I delve into this more in the research world, if I stick with that measure.
19:36
Coach Chris: It was it gave me the most breadth of information, but it was a little trickier and I think a little bit more redundant on the participant side of like, do I want to do this activity and have I done this activity?
19:52
Coach Chris: And it was a lot of activities.
19:53
Coach Chris: Um, again, trying to sort of capture all the different things.
19:58
Coach Chris: Maybe you're artistic, maybe you're into music, maybe again, you're in you have um community activities that you're involved in.
20:06
Coach Chris: It tried to hit all the different roles that a human might incorporate into their life.
20:11
Coach Chris: So it was a bit it was a hefty one.
20:13
Coach Chris: But all that to say, the the first step of my regression was all the demographic variables and age, gender, and traff on experience did not significantly predict the post-race blues, at least in my sample of participants.
20:30
Coach Chris: We did find, so I'm I measured post-race blues with the brunes, the Brunel mood score, and that comes up with a total mood disturbance score as its total score.
20:42
Coach Chris: We did have a subset of athletes that would have scored and sort of qualified as more of an actual blues experience.
20:52
Coach Chris: But overall, majority of the participants just had a mild mood disturbance, and we probably wouldn't have fully categorized them as having actual blues experience, just a little note of it.
21:07
Coach Chris: But for in in terms of the numbers that we had, the age, the gender, and the experience did not significantly predict in this sample size.
21:17
Coach Chris: In the second step, I I entered passion and life balance.
21:24
Coach Chris: And surprisingly, harmonious passion was not significant, but obsessive passion and life balance were significant and accounted for about 30%.
21:35
Coach Chris: I think it was 27% more specifically, of predicting post-race flus, which is a lot.
21:41
Coach Carlie: So if I'm hearing you right, more obsessive.
21:47
Coach Carlie: Well, you didn't actually say that.
21:48
Coach Carlie: So what I'm synthesizing in my head is it sounds like the more obsessive you are and the worse your life balance is, the higher the predicted post-race blues.
22:01
Coach Carlie: Yes.
22:02
Coach Carlie: Okay.
22:03
Coach Carlie: Interesting.
22:04
Coach Chris: So the lower your life balance, the higher likelihood of your blues experience.
22:13
Coach Chris: So the the worse your blues would be.
22:16
Coach Chris: And that in this step to the the life balance of that 27%, the life balance was significantly more of a predictor than the obsessive passion.
22:27
Coach Chris: So it was really interesting that of them, that life balance factor was the biggest factor that I found to be a predictor of the putter's loose.
22:36
Coach Chris: And then then the third step that I I added goal satisfaction, which was also a significant predictor, but it was it was small percentage-wise.
22:44
Coach Chris: It was only 2%.
22:46
Coach Chris: So while all a significant predictor, it was definitely secondary to uh life balance, which was which was a big one.
22:55
Coach Carlie: Wow.
22:56
Coach Carlie: So okay, so we went over the methodology and the results, and now we're into the discussion part.
23:03
Coach Carlie: Okay.
23:06
Coach Carlie: So uh yeah, so I know that you've almost like sort of dove into like, man, there's so much more that we could do in terms of research, but what does this feel like in terms of not only what your research means to the greater long course community, but certainly in your own life?
23:27
Coach Carlie: Like, what is it like?
23:30
Coach Carlie: Those were big questions.
23:32
Coach Chris: Yeah, those are big questions.
23:33
Coach Chris: Sorry, not sorry.
23:35
Coach Chris: Well, and let me let me actually back up before we get into those questions.
23:39
Coach Chris: Those were the results from my initial study in that three to seven day period.
23:44
Coach Carlie: Okay.
23:45
Coach Chris: When I retested for the follow-up study, I looked at life balance again and we looked at total mood score again.
23:54
Coach Chris: So, because passion would remain stable, goal satisfaction was what it was.
23:59
Coach Chris: Life balance significantly improved over the course of time.
24:06
Coach Chris: So by that 30 days, we saw a significant improvement in life balance, meaning people were getting back to filling all of those roles again.
24:16
Coach Chris: We did not get a significant change in mood disturbance.
24:21
Coach Chris: So, again, at the moment, I'm theorizing that because we had such a small subset that actually qualified for uh a more impactful blues experience, that everyone else's was so mild that we didn't have enough to actually see a significant change within them.
24:41
Coach Chris: Like it might have it improved, but not significantly enough.
24:45
Coach Chris: But I think that's because that it what they weren't experiencing it bad enough in the stamp.
24:50
Coach Chris: Bad enough.
24:50
Coach Chris: That sounds terrible.
24:53
Coach Chris: Good enough, really.
24:55
Coach Carlie: Well, I mean, when we're talking about statistics.
24:58
Coach Chris: Right.
24:59
Coach Chris: Yes.
24:59
Coach Chris: Yes.
25:00
Coach Chris: And bless.
25:01
Coach Chris: Bear with me, my statistics friends.
25:03
Coach Chris: Uh but anyways, no, which is also an interesting finding.
25:08
Coach Chris: So one of the subscales in the Brums is tension, which you can imagine is sort of this like friction point feeling like uh we're sort of biting heads in some way with areas of our life.
25:21
Coach Chris: Tension increased over time, which sparked a really interesting conversation of what happens when we return to more balanced lifestyles.
25:41
Coach Chris: And I'm letting that I'm I'm purposefully letting that sink in for a second because I know for like what came to my mind first was different than what came to mind for one of my committee members.
25:55
Coach Chris: But both were equally valid reasons of why our tension might increase when we are maybe home a little bit more than we have been, or maybe we're spending time with certain family members more than we were before.
26:10
Coach Carlie: Uh riding your bike was a nice escape and amazing.
26:16
Coach Chris: Um, so I all I can say is that tension increased over time.
26:23
Coach Carlie: Right, interesting.
26:24
Coach Chris: But I think that's also a testament to let to to why people are drawn to the sport, right?
26:31
Coach Chris: If it if we're in peak Iron Man training and experiencing less tension during a time where we're pr probably experiencing low life balance, that's interesting.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:47
Coach Chris: And you can see why it would sound alluring to go ride your bike for six hours on a Saturday, if somehow that is less tension-causing than a quote unquote normal Saturday outside of training.
27:02
Coach Chris: Anyways, that's where I'm at with my with the follow-up findings at this point in time.
27:07
Coach Chris: From a sort of practical implications standpoint for athletes, for coaches, for sport psych folks, we really want to pay attention to how these athletes are diving into their sport.
27:19
Coach Chris: Are we seeing signs of over-identification?
27:23
Coach Chris: Are we seeing signs that might be pointing towards just this really big swing in life balance?
27:30
Coach Chris: Are they saying they're putting down a bunch of other things to be able to get into Iron Man training?
27:36
Coach Chris: And what can we do to help with that?
27:39
Coach Chris: Which is sort of part of the bigger question when we talk about long horse traton or other ultra-endurance sport, that we have to put in a certain amount of hours to be able to get our bodies up to this point of being able to race.
27:59
Coach Chris: And so from a from an hours perspective, how do we, as a sport, how do we figure that out?
28:07
Coach Chris: How can we participate in a sport that takes up this much time and find ways to keep that balance?
28:13
Coach Chris: And I think that will continue to be the age-old question as we sort of not only look into this topic, but just longevity in this sport.
28:22
Coach Chris: How do we how do we find ways to balance it?
28:26
Coach Chris: I know for me, I try to get creative with my athletes.
28:30
Coach Chris: I sort of space training out a little extra longer, maybe, but so we can have extra weekends off where maybe we take a break from, you know, these really big brick days and they just have like an hour session and it's it's blocked for family or something like that.
28:50
Coach Chris: So, you know, our our our bulk of training might be, you know, more into the 20 to 25 weeks versus 16.
28:59
Coach Chris: But I'm trying to help, you know, keep the spouse happy too, right?
29:05
Coach Chris: We're trying, we're trying to find ways to not peak too soon, but also just give a little bit more breathing room in the bulk of that training, which will work for some and won't for others.
29:15
Coach Chris: But that's sort of again, back to the bigger question of how do we look at the roles that someone's trying to play and help accommodate this big volume training so they can do both.
29:30
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
29:31
Coach Carlie: And from like the passion and its things, I'm obsessed or uh, I'm not, um I'm fascinated by this obsession versus what was what was that?
29:39
Coach Carlie: Harmonious.
29:40
Coach Carlie: Harmonious.
29:42
Coach Carlie: That's lovely.
29:43
Coach Carlie: I feel like that should be our tagline.
29:46
Coach Carlie: Endurance edge, harmonious, harmonious training, harmonious life.
29:52
Coach Carlie: Like that's really what it should be.
29:55
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
29:56
Coach Carlie: If if I were training everyone, you know, which it uh in my mind, it should be a lifestyle in which you are able to do all these different fun, hard things, but also have a life.
30:14
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
30:14
Coach Chris: Have a life.
30:15
Coach Chris: And in my sample, we did find that pretty much across the board we had high harmonious passion.
30:23
Coach Chris: So you can be both, yeah, is part of this thing, right?
30:26
Coach Chris: So most of the athletes scored high in harmonious passion, and then we had a subset of them that also scored high in obsessive passion.
30:35
Coach Chris: So it was kind of like where you fall on one impacts this more than the other.
30:44
Coach Chris: We also generally had high goal satisfaction, which was I was like, yay, everyone's happy, which is always nice.
30:51
Coach Carlie: Um, so that was good too.
30:53
Coach Carlie: But so maybe it's almost like backing up a little bit and saying, why do I want to do this?
31:01
Coach Carlie: And sometimes that's uh, I feel like that's a heavy question.
31:04
Coach Carlie: And then we just sort of like, well, I'm just gonna keep going because I paid my race registration, or you know, like, you know, you almost get like too heavily invested, and then it's like, but can you turn around?
31:16
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
31:17
Coach Chris: Which also like finances and budgeting and all of that is part of the life balance as well.
31:23
Coach Chris: Of like, I am I keeping this in line with what I want it to be.
31:27
Coach Chris: That's actually sort of part of what I was sparsing out during my lit review, because we do hear people be like, well, I've committed all this money, I've bought a new bike, I've I'm I'm paying I'm paying all of this money.
31:38
Coach Chris: I'm I better not quit at this point.
31:43
Coach Chris: I better not get overwhelmed with how much time it's taking, yada, yada.
31:47
Coach Chris: As I again, as I went into this lit review of trying to find like, okay, how do we, how do we quantify that, not just like from a doll literal dollars and cents perspective, but from a psychological factor, like what does that look like?
32:02
Coach Chris: What is investment?
32:04
Coach Chris: What is sacrifice?
32:06
Coach Chris: And how does that all come together as we engage in sport?
32:10
Coach Chris: And ultimately, I really liked this life balance as a sort of a uh catch-all for lack of a better word, but to encompass both of those as like what we we're sacrificing a lot.
32:22
Coach Chris: Some of us are spending percentage-wise more than others, right?
32:28
Coach Chris: And some of us are, again, based on the roles that we have, some of us are sacrificing more than others to participate in the sport.
32:34
Coach Chris: So, how does that all come together?
32:36
Coach Chris: Uh, and this life balance was sort of the encompassing construct for that.
32:44
Coach Carlie: Interesting.
32:46
Coach Carlie: So having done all this research, what do you feel like it means for you?
32:52
Coach Carlie: And then what do you feel like it means for uh you as a coach, you as an athlete and you as a coach?
33:02
Coach Chris: I think to your earlier point, and we'll kind of circle top so when I'm exactly to the very first thing that we were talking about.
33:11
Coach Chris: We as athletes, and I I have been consulting with other sports psych professionals who are particularly because I had these results back in uh, you know, early winter and fall when racing season was ending, and that's just how long it takes to sort of wrap all these things up that we're here in February now.
33:30
Coach Chris: But like my my athletes are done with their racing season and they're they're having blues.
33:34
Coach Chris: Not necessarily that they did this race and they're done, but their season is done.
33:37
Coach Chris: They're heading into off-season, they're on the treadmill.
33:40
Coach Chris: And a lot of the conversation has been around just this change in structure, right?
33:45
Coach Chris: So as we go back to these other roles, how do we keep a structure for exercise?
33:52
Coach Chris: Because that is meaningful for us.
33:54
Coach Chris: We have likely ingrained that in our identity.
33:57
Coach Chris: It's likely part of our core values.
33:59
Coach Chris: And as we transition into filling more of the other cups for our other roles, how do we keep these ones filled enough that we have that balance?
34:09
Coach Chris: And that starts by planning ahead, looking ahead after the race, because we very much get into this, we only look to the race point, right?
34:20
Coach Chris: And even as coaches, we we toe this line of like, well, I don't want to start talking to them about the race we have after the race, but we kind of need to.
34:30
Coach Chris: We can't just like have this big race and then again, within this, this particularly that week afterwards, not have a plan or not have a check-in or not have anything that we're looking forward to in some way, shape, or form.
34:48
Coach Chris: So I think just considering that that month after a race and having a plan for it and making sure that and we we also have athletes that their their coaching ends when they race.
35:01
Coach Chris: And I would recommend keeping your coach for another month.
35:04
Coach Chris: Have those check-ins, have that sounding board, have someone who understands what you just went through that you can just check in with and maybe try to keep something in training peaks for a little bit afterwards, even if it doesn't, it doesn't have to be as crazy and all of that, but something to help keep that structure and those check-ins going so it doesn't feel like we're stepping into a completely different world.
35:31
Coach Carlie: So interesting.
35:32
Coach Carlie: You so beautifully skirted the question of you as an athlete.
35:39
Coach Chris: Um I think I would take that exact advice, honestly.
35:48
Coach Chris: I think particularly after my first Iron Man, I was just so laser focused on that day that life afterwards wasn't a consideration.
36:02
Coach Carlie: And it's really hard to think about when you like like you're saying, when you're so like, oh my gosh, I want this thing, especially if you've never experienced it, then it's like I don't even, I don't even have the time to insert into my brain what's gonna happen afterwards.
36:18
Coach Carlie: Yep.
36:19
Coach Carlie: Cause that seems like a distraction.
36:21
Coach Chris: Right.
36:23
Coach Chris: And it's almost like you're skipping over this major life event, but really reframing that into taking care of yourself, uh it really is um it becomes a form of self-care, right?
36:35
Coach Chris: That I'm especially if you're someone that has experienced this and is anticipating that it would happen again, because we do have those athletes too that are like, after every 70.3, this happens to me.
36:46
Coach Chris: And it's like, okay, what can we do to prepare for that and hopefully make a better scenario for you after this one?
36:52
Coach Chris: Think of it as self-care.
36:53
Coach Chris: If that helps you reframe it to to be something that you'll actually do.
36:59
Coach Chris: But ultimately, the craziness of this whole situation is I'm leaving this research study with more questions than answers, which is wonderful and beautiful.
37:13
Coach Chris: And but also like I hope the research continues and we get more answers and specifically for long course traits and what y'all experience in the sport.
37:25
Coach Carlie: Yeah, fascinating.
37:26
Coach Carlie: That also reminds me of some of the genes we see in genetic testing of typically in the mood and behavior category of certain there are certain genes that make us more susceptible to feeling kinda blue.
37:47
Coach Carlie: Yep.
37:48
Coach Chris: And there's there's naturally in the post-olympic blues research who may or may or may not, I'm not making accusations, get some funding.
38:01
Coach Chris: But they have a lot more, again, they're they're further into this side of the research, but there was a lot of interesting, more biophysiological side of the sciences to incorporate in in what they were finding.
38:18
Coach Chris: So lots of like cortisol, they're looking at sleep a lot and other additional factors, as we said, the whole all the things that go into this.
38:26
Coach Chris: So it was really interested.
38:27
Coach Chris: And if you guys are more interested in reading more about this, I would sort of skip over into the post-Olympic blues research just because there's I think more well-rounded data at at this point in time where that research is.
38:43
Coach Chris: But it's really interesting to look at like all the factors together and and how they're impacting those athletes.
38:50
Coach Carlie: Wow.
38:50
Coach Carlie: So what's next, not only for you, but also like for this topic.
38:57
Coach Carlie: I mean, I know that you left with more questions than answers, but like what next?
39:04
Coach Carlie: I don't know.
39:05
Coach Carlie: Great question.
39:07
Coach Carlie: You just did your own long course.
39:11
Coach Chris: I very I very much did.
39:13
Coach Chris: Um, I don't know.
39:14
Coach Chris: I think at some point I will get a co-author to hack up and rewrite some of my final dissertation.
39:22
Coach Chris: Um, I think I have some really interesting findings here that other people would also find interesting if I can take a step back from it and acknowledge that.
39:31
Coach Chris: So I think at some point I'll reach out and hopefully get a co-author that can help me get this published.
39:36
Coach Chris: That would be really cool.
39:38
Coach Chris: But I also trying to be self-aware and and know that I needed a break and to take a take a minute and recover from the whole school process.
39:48
Coach Carlie: Um Yeah, speaking of life balance, right?
39:51
Coach Chris: Yeah, exactly.
39:52
Coach Chris: So, but yeah, time to time for me to get back to some structured training and some of the more fun side of things.
40:02
Coach Carlie: Considering all of this, like between your experience with post-race blues and your experience coaching and in sport psychology, do you would you be more cautious going into long course?
40:15
Coach Carlie: Do you think you want to do a long course again?
40:17
Coach Carlie: Or now that you know the short course exists, our mommy's trying to get people in short course.
40:24
Coach Carlie: I'm like, come on, you guys, let's go fast and then go home for breakfast.
40:30
Coach Chris: Um I yeah, I'll absolutely be getting back to long course at some point.
40:35
Coach Chris: I think very similarly, I feel like I'm coming out of Iron Man training.
40:42
Coach Chris: I, the volume of time that school took up for my family, I I'm very much in a phase right now of rebalancing and and filling up other roles and cups and trying to be a better friend and daughter than I've had the time to be.
40:58
Coach Chris: So that's the phase that I'm in right now.
41:01
Coach Chris: I know I'll come back to long course at some point, but but you'll probably have me in the in the sprint uh category for a bit as I work my way back.
41:11
Coach Chris: But short course rules.
41:16
Coach Chris: It is it is nice to be home by lunch for sure.
41:19
Coach Chris: Yeah, definitely.
41:20
Coach Carlie: And life balance in general.
41:23
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
41:24
Coach Carlie: And you know, after feelings, you know, like who needs that?
41:29
Coach Carlie: Nobody at all.
41:33
Coach Carlie: So cool, Dr.
41:35
Coach Carlie: Carly.
41:39
Coach Chris: It's still weird.
41:42
Coach Chris: None of it has sunk in, y'all.
41:44
Coach Chris: I'm I'm I don't know.
41:49
Coach Chris: Imposter syndrome is real.
41:51
Coach Chris: I still feel like just a little baby navigating this whole realm, but also confident in myself at the same time.
42:02
Coach Chris: It's really weird.
42:03
Coach Chris: But yeah.
42:05
Coach Carlie: I think that is the typical life journey.
42:09
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
42:09
Coach Carlie: You know, as you get so deeply nerdy into something, and then you're like, but doesn't everybody already know this?
42:16
Coach Carlie: And why does this make me special?
42:18
Coach Carlie: And yeah, owning some greatness.
42:22
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
42:23
Coach Carlie: I feel like that needs to be the 2026 theme.
42:26
Coach Carlie: Own your greatness, people.
42:28
Coach Carlie: Myself included.
42:30
Coach Carlie: And for you, definitely for you, Dr.
42:32
Coach Carlie: Carly.
42:34
Coach Chris: I might take a little I need a nap first, I think.
42:39
Coach Carlie: We're gonna call that self-care.
42:40
Coach Carlie: Good night, friends.
42:43
Coach Chris: Yes, I've had a reasonable bedtime for the last couple weeks.
42:47
Coach Chris: It's been beautiful.
42:48
Coach Chris: It's miraculous, isn't it?
42:50
SPEAKER_00: I know.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Let's let's shout that from the rooftops.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Sleep is amazing.
42:57
Coach Chris: The the worst part, I think, was that my assignments were always due at um 3 a.m.
43:03
Coach Chris: for me, midnight Pacific.
43:07
Coach Chris: So again, getting things done when I could get them done.
43:11
Coach Chris: I wish it had been midnight Eastern, but the amount of times that I was up till two something in the morning was too much.
43:18
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
43:19
Coach Chris: But it's done now.
43:20
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
43:21
Coach Carlie: Congratulations.
43:22
Coach Carlie: I know that that was a hard process to go through.
43:25
Coach Carlie: And being the wonderful perfectionist that you are, dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's and and then uncovering some really amazing research.
43:38
Coach Carlie: Like, this is great.
43:40
Coach Chris: Yeah.
43:41
Coach Chris: And releasing a lot of my perfectionism in the journey because I had I had to, I didn't have a choice.
43:47
Coach Chris: I had to.
43:47
Coach Chris: Yeah.
43:48
Coach Carlie: Good for you.
43:49
Coach Carlie: I learned a lot of journey about that.
43:50
Coach Carlie: That's so cool.
43:51
Coach Carlie: Um, Carly, I'm so glad that you were able to share this journey with us of your own personal long course dissertation.
44:01
Coach Chris: Chris was asking if I wanted to share my my slide deck from my defense, but it's just a lot of numbers.
44:09
Coach Chris: And again, in the learning process of like, how do I now back this out to make it deliverable and a more fun way for people to learn about it?
44:18
Coach Carlie: It's a hard process of, and this goes for anyone, right?
44:23
Coach Carlie: Being in an educational setting, and um like when I first graduated, and then I was writing blogs, like I was writing papers.
44:33
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
44:34
Coach Carlie: And I was like, I'm not trained in this, I'm not trained to.
44:38
Coach Carlie: To not, you know, like you're trained in a way that is like this is for the academic community, and you have to have this cited in this way.
44:46
Coach Carlie: And then I was like, you mean I just like put it out on a blog, like what my thoughts are, and you know, yes.
44:54
Coach Carlie: It's like how do how the the translation process is something I think that needs to be trained in a way.
45:00
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
45:01
Coach Carlie: And then also you have this interesting gap of how do you take it in the quote unquote right way that will actually serve the community and serve the public in a way that's not because man, that translation part can be real ugly.
45:20
Coach Carlie: Yeah.
45:20
Coach Carlie: And potentially.
45:21
Coach Chris: That's uh in preparing for this conversation.
45:24
Coach Chris: I was having, I was going back and forth in my head between like, I want to make sure I'm sharing this information in a digestible way.
45:33
Coach Chris: But also coming out of the context of making sure that my nuances were very clear and that and that I wasn't providing results that my numbers weren't showing.
45:44
Coach Chris: And I I don't want y'all to take things out of context.
45:48
Coach Chris: But I also don't want to be so nerdy that no one wants to listen.
45:52
unknown: Yeah.
45:53
Coach Chris: To an extent, right?
45:53
Coach Chris: Like obviously you guys are here to be a little bit nerdy with us, but no one actually wants to hear the ridiculousness that came out of my my defense over here, right?
46:03
Coach Carlie: I mean, obviously some people do, but um, you know, like the Hubermans of like, which is like every podcast is like going to a college course.
46:13
Coach Chris: Yeah.
46:13
Coach Carlie: You know, so some people do, but then the rest of us kind of want the, you know, like give me the reader's digest version.
46:20
Coach Carlie: Right.
46:20
Coach Carlie: That because there's so many things to learn in this world that how can I take this little tidbit and put it into insert it into the rest of the context of my life, which again can be a like I think you did a really good job about being very clear with Okay, good life balance people.
46:40
Coach Carlie: You know, there's your summary balance people process, so aim for life balance, regardless.
46:47
Coach Carlie: Yeah, so good.
46:49
Coach Carlie: And I mean it, you know, that's the challenge with research in general is but and you're obviously very close to this.
46:53
Coach Carlie: You wrote it too close, yeah.
46:56
Coach Carlie: When you are just reading a when you're just skimming an abstract, which is what I do frequently, then it's like, okay, well, let's jump to this conclusion.
47:05
Coach Carlie: It's like, but did you get deeper into some of the methodology and you know, their statistics and whoo?
47:15
Coach Carlie: And then we've spent a lot of time doing certain things.
47:19
Coach Carlie: So, you know, we we want the shortcut.
47:21
Coach Carlie: It's okay.
47:22
Coach Carlie: We're human.
47:23
Coach Carlie: Shortcut.
47:26
Coach Carlie: All right.
47:27
Coach Carlie: Well, Carly, thank you so much for coming on and for sharing all your research and all your uh fabulousness and sharing your greatness.