Latest / Industrial Advisors / Popcorn Stand to Powerhouse: Secrets from CRE Legends

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Popcorn Stand to Powerhouse: Secrets from CRE Legends · Industrial Advisors

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  For 14 years in a row, we sold more than three times the number of properties as
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  the big firms that we were competing with.
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  We were just a local popcorn stand competing against regional,
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  national, and global firms, and we kicked their ass every day, 14
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  years in a row, three X-ing them.
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  Proud of that.
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  Welcome to Industrial Advisors.
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  You've got myself, Matt McGregor and Bill Conn. And honestly, this is
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  probably the first time we have two guests that need no introduction,
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  but we're gonna introduce 'em.
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  Rod Santo Masimo, uh, with the Masimo Group, world renowned coach, top coach in
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  the CRE space, author, keynote speaker.
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  Unbelievable person, friend, and in my opinion, the best coach in the world.
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  Welcome to the show, rod.
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  I think this is your second or third time on the show.
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  Bob Knackle, the most famous broker, uh, in the world, no question about it.
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  Uh, keynote speaker, author, seller of buildings, uh, in New York City by
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  far, uh, the number one person in his category for a very, very long time.
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  Uh, met Bob a few years ago at Massimo Con, uh, unbelievable speaker
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  and, and a friend of mine as well.
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  Welcome to the show, Bob.
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  Thank you so much, Matt.
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  Great to be with you and Bill, and always great to be with my, my good buddy, rod.
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  Excellent.
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  So you guys wrote a book together recently and, uh, launched it.
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  There it is.
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  Selling Buildings, maximizing Prices and Profits, and Commercial real Estate.
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  Congratulations gentlemen.
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  It was a blast.
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  Thank you.
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  It was great.
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  Thank you.
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  And tell us a little bit about why you wrote the book together.
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  First of all, how, how did this, what was that conversation?
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  Who started it?
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  How did it come to be?
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  Can you can take that?
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  Well, we, yeah, we met, we've been talking about it for a while
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  and you know, rod did, now this I think was what, your fifth book.
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  So he's, he's written a number of books and I figured how better to do it.
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  And rather than just write the book in one voice, we wrote it in two.
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  So Rod kind of looks at everything.
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  The book is essentially my journey over 40 years in commercial real estate selling
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  buildings and uh, the different inflection points and trials and tribulations.
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  We really pulled back the curtain and.
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  Go through the good, the bad, and the ugly and give my perspective on it.
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  And I think there are a lot of lessons in there for investors.
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  We tell a lot of deal stories that are very indicative of what was happening
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  in the broader market at the time.
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  And then Rod adds his perspective on what brokers can get out of this.
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  So we, they thought it was a very interesting book.
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  Some people refer to it as textbook light.
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  Some refer to it as kind of a, uh.
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  A crime thriller of real estate.
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  Uh, but it's, uh, it's a little bit of everything, but most of all,
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  it is a, um, a summary of a lot of different lessons learned most the
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  hard way over the course of 40 years selling buildings in New York City.
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  I can imagine.
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  The stories that you have, uh, over the years selling buildings in, in New York
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  City and, and more than anyone else.
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  So, and by the way, New York City is by far Bill's favorite city, and
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  he always says, if I could start my career any other place, I'd be selling
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  office buildings in New York City.
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  So a little bit a wishlist.
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  The storys are plentiful, no doubt about that.
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  We tried to keep.
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  The stories to the GPG and a couple of R rated stories, but
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  that's about as far as we go.
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  You know, I've done quite a few, uh, deals in New Jersey.
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  Uh, not a ton in New York.
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  Uh, best broker, nice warehouse deals in, in New Jersey.
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  Um, so Bob, talk a little bit about.
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  Explain luck versus discipline.
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  'cause I know you've done that in the past.
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  Number one, luck is very, very important.
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  I, I think, and I, I go into detail about how lucky I feel I've been in my career.
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  I also think that the harder you work, the luckier you get.
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  Luck is important, but discipline really is the, the backbone of
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  what a broker needs to succeed.
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  I, I always say I see three characteristics very routinely in the
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  folks that get to the top of our business.
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  One is expertise.
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  Expertise in a very, very thin slice of the market so they can
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  know everything about it, but, uh, big enough to make a good living.
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  Two, passion.
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  You have to love it.
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  You can't work hard enough and stick with it if you don't love it.
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  And then.
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  Being able to use discipline.
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  And I think the best way to, uh, illustrate how important discipline is, is
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  to think there are so many things we do in the brokerage industry that are not very
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  glamorous, but are critically important.
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  Making your calls, writing your content, sending your emails, doing your research,
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  doing the things, the fundamental, the basic, fundamental things.
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  And it's.
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  Very, very important to make sure that the proper, fundamental things, but
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  we often say in the office that we have to pound the rock and pounding.
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  The rock is the stone cutter's creed.
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  And as an illustration of that, stone cutter comes into the shop in the morning,
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  sits in front of a big block of stone.
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  Takes the mallet and wax the thing.
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  99 times nothing's happened.
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  Hundredth one boom rock splits in half.
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  And to the casual observer, they look at that and say, oh, that hundredth
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  one must have been different Somehow.
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  Maybe it was a different mallet or maybe, uh, the strike was harder, or maybe
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  it was from a different angle, but the stone cutter knows that's not the case.
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  The hundredth one was.
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  The same as the 99 that came before.
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  It is just the 99 that came before it allowed that hundredth one to work.
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  And in the same way, whether you're making calls or sending out your, your letters
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  or meeting with people or, or doing your networking, if you're doing fundamentally
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  the correct things, ultimately that rock is gonna split in half.
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  But you have to be able to use discipline to keep at it even
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  when you don't see any results.
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  But if you're doing the right things, eventually that will work for you.
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  Well, thanks Bob.
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  Yeah, I really, I really like how you, you combine that with the passion part
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  because you can have discipline and go do a bunch of different things.
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  But if you're not actually passionate about that phone call or about writing
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  that letter, about meeting with that person for lunch, the clients or potential
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  clients gonna see right through that.
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  Right.
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  So you're more effective when you combine those two things.
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  Yeah.
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  Look, rod will be the first to tell you that when times get tough, a lot
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  of brokers get out of the business.
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  And, uh, you know, it very routinely, the, the people who don't truly love it,
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  uh, don't have the sticktuitiveness to make it through the tough times, and they
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  just get out and, you know, inevitably those times are gonna get better.
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  The market always has been is and always will be cyclical.
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  So you have to make sure that you're around to take
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  advantage of those good times.
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  And if you don't really love it, uh, the good, the bad times will grind
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  you up and you'll, you'll drop out.
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  That's right.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And Rod, in the book, it's interesting because it's a little bit of a memoir
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  and then coaching playbook, so Right.
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  How did you, in writing this, putting that together, how did
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  you come up with a balance between storytelling and a tactical guide
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  and in your world of coaching?
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  Yeah.
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  You know, like Bill and Matt, I know you listen to so many books.
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  I never found a book where there was a coach player.
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  Co-written book.
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  You know, imagine if Phil Jackson and, and Michael Jordan wrote a book.
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  Not that I'm comparing myself to Phil Jackson or BK to Michael
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  Jordan, although he is the goat.
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  So I thought it'd be interesting to say, how can we show those two
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  perspectives working for another 'cause?
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  That's the relationship that goes much deeper than just
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  Bob's memoir or tackle approach.
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  So we found the balance.
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  We found the balance of for two things.
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  First, yes, be a memoir.
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  Second, be valuable to the reader in regards to tactical approaches.
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  Also BK is telling investors, this is exactly what you need to do when you
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  sell a building to maximize your prices.
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  And I'm sharing with brokers, this is exactly what you need
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  to do when you're maximizing the profits in your commissions.
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  So I think it was a good, it was a good blend.
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  Yeah.
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  That must have been tough to blend that out.
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  How, by the way, how long did it take you guys to write the book collectively?
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  It took, you know, first of all, we use no.
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  And you know, we just did not Yeah, that's right.
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  I've read that.
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  We would not do that.
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  That's impressive.
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  But we did about two, almost, almost three years, two and a half years.
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  Almost three years.
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  And almost three years.
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  Yeah.
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  And how long did it take you to write your last book alone?
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  Like is it a lot longer because you're writing it with somebody else?
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  No, dominators was so much, dominators was a, was a, a sequel to the
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  first book brokers who dominate.
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  So that was actually pretty simple.
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  That one took probably.
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  Eight months.
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  Um, okay.
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  My, my first book with brokers who dominate, that took me two years as well.
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  Okay.
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  And the funny thing is, in my first book about luck versus discipline,
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  some guy, some, a mentor of mine named Jerry Anderson said, you know, you must
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  have Bob Knackle in the, in the book.
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  And I said, who the hell is Bob Knackle?
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  Is that why you then sought him out?
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  Yeah, that's, that's, that's interesting.
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  Got together 13, almost 13, 14 years ago.
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  Wow.
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  Excellent.
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  And Bob, you mentioned un uncovering 22 boxes of memorabilia, even tax returns.
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  What was it like rifling through all that and how did you then kind of
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  shape the narrative of what to use?
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  Yeah.
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  Well, you know what, Matt, it was, uh, I did save boxes and boxes of stuff, all
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  of which are recently has been scanned and is on my website, bob knackle.com.
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  So you can go back and.
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  See market reports from the 1990s if you felt like, uh,
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  wasting some time, but no, what?
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  I think it was more trying to remember all of the different twists and turns,
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  because really what do people get the most benefit out of is understanding when
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  someone is faced with a decision and you could go left or you could go right, what
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  are the considerations for going left?
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  What are the considerations for going right?
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  Which way did you go and how did it turn out?
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  And when you met with similar.
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  Inflection points, what's the decision making process and that kind of thing.
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  So a lot of going through the old materials were stirring up memories
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  of, of different inflection points that we had and different twists
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  in the road and almost going bankrupt and almost closing down.
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  And, you know, when we filled all our territories in Manhattan, do
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  we start doing other service lines or do we increase geographically?
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  And first we increased geographically, then we had, we had.
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  All of of New York City filled with investment sales territories.
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  Do we go to Boston or Philly or Chicago, or do we do more service lines?
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  And we decided to get into more service lines.
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  So a bunch of different things along the way that happened and hiring a bunch
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  of people and firing a bunch of people.
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  And when do we grow?
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  When do we.
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  Not grow.
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  How did we grow?
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  What was the margin that we got from hiring people to take functionality
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  off our hands so we could go sell more?
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  All the things that really encapsulate a growth of a business, of brokerage
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  business and the different hurdles that you faced and how you overcame them
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  and what decisions you made and why, and how those decisions turned out.
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  Again, uh, some of them were, were not great decisions.
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  We made a lot of mistakes and in fact, early on made hundreds of mistakes
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  because we did most things by trial and error, which is a lesson out of the book.
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  Seek out the counsel and advice of, of experienced people, and it'll
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  save you from making a lot of.
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  But Paul and I didn't do that.
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  So, um, you know, it really was, uh, a very introspective look at all the twists
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  and turns over a, a 40 year career.
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  Yeah.
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  That's awesome.
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  And, and, you know, given the experience that both you guys have, and I'd ask you
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  both this question, so Bob and, and, and Rod, you know, Bob, you've sold a lot
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  in New York and around the East Coast.
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  What advice would both of you guys and, and Rod, you're exposed to?
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  Thousands and thousands of co of top brokers that you're coaching,
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  you know, on a daily basis and that your team is coaching.
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  So what are some of the advice that you guys would have to brokers as
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  it relates to just continuing to grind their way through the business?
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  Yeah, well I'll, I'll take the first one of that and I just wanna give one
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  quick correction and it's, it's just, um, just 'cause it is what it is.
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  You know, Bob hasn't sold only New York.
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  Yeah.
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  It's not, it's not New York.
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  Yeah.
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  Based on our.
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  Understanding and working with so many brokers across now, the gl, the globe.
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  Bob has sold more brokers than anybody else that we have heard
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  of or know than in the world.
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  I mean, it's, it's beyond incredible.
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  Bob, what's the total number right now?
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  2,358 as of last week.
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  58. Okay.
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  So, and given a 40 year career due the weeks, do you all the math majors, that's
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  more than one, one building a week.
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  More than one building a week over 40 years.
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  So just a little perspective.
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  So what did it take to do that?
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  Well, first, Bob talked about it.
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  Look, you, you talked about discipline and, and passion.
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  I love those words, but I think the number one word in everything,
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  including sales, is conviction.
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  You must have total conviction to the craft of whatever you're doing.
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  If you're be a broker, be the best broker in the world.
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  That's simple.
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  I think what you see from top producers, it's they don't do brokerage, they're
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  brokers, and it's a huge difference.
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  It's just huge.
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  It's not a transaction, it's a lifestyle.
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  And there are other disciplines, you know, call the domin factors of four
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  traits of a traits of of success.
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  But yeah, I'd say look, you gotta have the total conviction
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  regardless of the market cycles.
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  It's not the market that makes you successful, it's
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  you that makes you successful.
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  You just gotta understand that.
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  Okay.
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  I, I think it's really about expertise and, and really understanding, and
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  as Rod said, you have to love it.
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  You have to wanna be great mm-hmm.
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  At it.
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  And, um, you know, I've had personally had a couple of inflection points as well.
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  You know, we sold Massing Al in 2014.
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  We sold it for a lot of money.
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  It gave me an opportunity to be introspective about what
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  I wanted to do at that point.
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  Did I wanna slow down a little bit?
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  Did I wanna spend more time in.
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  On the Cayman Islands, which is my favorite vacation spot.
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  Did I, did I wanna start buying property?
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  And it occurred to me, look, I, I know how to be a broker.
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  I enjoy being a broker.
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  I'm gonna keep being a broker.
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  And now, you know, I've gotten to the point.
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  I'm 63 years old.
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  Subsequent to the sale of the company, I spent 10 years knocking around at c and w
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  and JLL, which really was like the, the 10 years was like the dark ages of my career.
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  I'm now a year and a half into having my own company and, um, you know,
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  again, it's kind of introspective.
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  I said, what am I gonna do?
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  Am I gonna slow down, start to enjoy life more?
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  They go enjoy life.
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  I enjoy life.
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  I love my life.
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  I love being a broker.
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  And instead of slowing down, I'm speeding up.
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  I want to continue.
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  I think I've got at least 20 or 30 more good years than me selling buildings.
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  And you know what?
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  You only live once.
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  Well, I want to do this better than anybody else has ever done it, and I
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  keep trying to improve every single day.
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  I still work with Rod.
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  We do our call every Saturday morning.
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  If there's some kid in in Idaho that knows how to do something better.
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  And the rest of us know how to do it.
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  I wanna know about it as soon as possible.
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  And I tell you, I am having more fun now than I ever have.
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  And, and unlike athletes who just because of of the inevitability
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  of age, you can't possibly perform as well when you're older.
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  As you did when you were in your prime.
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  I think I'm, I've never performed better.
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  I recently closed my first billion dollar transaction.
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  Wow.
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  Being hired to sell another billion dollar transaction.
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  Uh, we're getting institutional work.
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  My efficacy in the Nale map room is yesterday.
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  We won.
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  Our 56th exclusive out of 57 pitches.
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  I never would've thought anything like that was possible, but I wanna push the
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  limits I that's in the map room, right?
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  Do it better than anybody else that that 56 outta 57 is in the map room.
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  In the map room, right?
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  That's impressive.
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  I remember mo plus three pitches in the past year.
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  One was the one that we lost in the map room, the other two.
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  I lost because I couldn't get the client into the map room.
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  Right.
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  And I just, I will, will not pitch a client today unless
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  they come into the map room.
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  That's a well with one loss.
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  Only one loss.
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  That's a good philosophy for sure.
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  That's, that is an incredible percentage.
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  Yeah, I, I think it's really.
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  Fascinating though, and it's true with both of you guys, you both
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  have continued to reach the top of the very top of your space, right?
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  And just a continuous mindset of like, how do I learn, how do I be better?
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  How do I continue to push and go next level is is really inspiring.
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  From both of you?
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  Yeah.
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  I don't, I don't know if DK feels, but I don't feel I'm at the top now.
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  Now, is there any, is there any coach in my space?
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  No.
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  No, there's not.
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  I mean, you, you're, you're, you're at the top here, right?
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  You know, the, the question I ask the most myself.
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  Almost every time is what's next?
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  What's next?
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  Yeah.
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  That you know, and that's the problem with that.
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  And you all do this.
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  You're so freaking good at what you do.
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  You, you are both at the top of your game as industrial advisors for some of
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  the biggest organizations in the world.
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  You both are, but we tend not to celebrate.
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  The win as much as wonder what else is out there.
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  Right.
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  And that's of course, that's what it's, that's the curse of, of who we all are.
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  Right?
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  It's,
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  that's right.
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  Well, we, that, that is gonna be my closing question for you, but I got one
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  more before that, and this is on tech.
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  So, uh, rod, I'm gonna go to you.
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  You previously discussed how AI will change the CRE space, but not grit.
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  And, and I couldn't agree with that more.
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  How do you see the role of tech evolving brokerage, say, in the next 36 months?
• 17:24
  Well, first of all, I'll share with you right now, my AI agent that we all have
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  access to is getting quotes for new landscapers and submitting the forms
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  on the web for me, and getting to call me back and talking to my AI agent.
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  And we're getting it all toward, and I, I'm not, I'm not doing anything.
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  Wow.
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  This is just an example of what ex the tools exist today.
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  That's a $20 a month tool, by the way, called Chat, GPT.
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  But yeah, look, we are about to launch on, uh, depending on this, this is
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  this month, the end of this month, we're launching to the public for the
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  first time, our internal member only AI marketing and prospecting platform.
• 17:58
  We now have AI working with brokers to answer texts from investors,
• 18:02
  tenants, landlords, whatever, you know, with text conversations,
• 18:05
  phone conversations on incoming.
• 18:07
  It's illegal now to do outgoing based on the FCC regulations as of now.
• 18:11
  So look, Matt, it's gonna change the entire game and just like the great
• 18:16
  recession of 2008 and the pandemic of 2020, this wave is going to affect
• 18:22
  the number of brokers around in the next three to five years, and it's
• 18:26
  going to, I believe personally, although not great for my business.
• 18:30
  Dramatically reduce the actual number of agents, but the cream
• 18:34
  of the crops, the knuckles, you all, you'll always be needed.
• 18:37
  'cause you all have more expertise and, and just a human touch.
• 18:40
  That's what I think.
• 18:41
  I couldn't agree more.
• 18:42
  It is fascinating.
• 18:43
  Obviously, you know, we try to be that advanced tech team and it's, it's
• 18:46
  hard to keep up with all the changes.
• 18:48
  It's uh, it is amazing and that new, um, iOS that's coming out on the
• 18:52
  phone is gonna change, cold calling.
• 18:54
  No doubt about it.
• 18:54
  Absolutely.
• 18:55
  Um, so I'm gonna go to the last question here.
• 18:58
  What's next for both of you?
• 18:59
  You hit this earlier.
• 19:00
  What's the big picture?
• 19:02
  You've touched on it.
• 19:03
  If you could say one thing outside, you know, promoting the book for the
• 19:06
  next six months or, or whatever you're gonna do, what's the next, what's
• 19:09
  the next big thing for each of you?
• 19:11
  Whether that's personal or professional.
• 19:12
  Yeah.
• 19:13
  Well, the next thing I just want to keep, uh, growing B-K-R-E-A.
• 19:16
  You know, we have a philosophy that, you know, from my whole career.
• 19:21
  Prospecting and the approach to the business was to go a mile wide and
• 19:25
  an inch deep and try to get in the way of as much stuff as possible.
• 19:29
  We've completely inverted that now, and the philosophy is going inch wide and a
• 19:33
  mile deep and really entrench ourselves with folks that we really wanna work with.
• 19:39
  And then secondly.
• 19:40
  Probably the, the legacy of my career that I'm most proud of.
• 19:45
  And, you know, the MK days were great, a great time for 14 years in a row.
• 19:50
  We sold more than three times the number of properties as the big
• 19:53
  firms that we were competing with.
• 19:55
  We were just a local popcorn stand competing against regional,
• 19:59
  national, and global firms.
• 20:00
  And we kick their ass every day, 14 years in a row, three x-ing them.
• 20:05
  Proud of that.
• 20:06
  We started the company with just two of us and a secretary in a small
• 20:10
  office and grew it to 250 people.
• 20:12
  Sold it for a lot of money.
• 20:13
  Proud of that.
• 20:14
  But by far, the legacy I'm most proud of is that today in the New York City
• 20:19
  investment sales world, there are 32 companies or divisions of companies.
• 20:24
  That are owned by or run by people that learn the business at Massey Knackle.
• 20:29
  Wow.
• 20:29
  And in the same way I have now a a bunch of young, hardworking, smart, aggressive
• 20:36
  folks that I'm teaching the business to.
• 20:38
  And I know without a doubt that there are people working with me right now that are
• 20:43
  going to own their own company someday, or run the division of a company someday.
• 20:48
  They're great people and to the extent I can play a small part in
• 20:52
  making their lives tangibly better and encourage them, and inspire them
• 20:57
  and get them to get the most out of their life, that is the the thing that
• 21:02
  I will always be the most proud of.
• 21:04
  And so I want to continue that.
• 21:06
  Awesome.
• 21:07
  Well said.
• 21:07
  And for me it's simple.
• 21:08
  The last six months and for the next 90 days, all I've been focusing on is.
• 21:12
  Well know we've had the good fortune and you both have Bob and, and Matt.
• 21:15
  You know, this, uh, we had the good fortune of putting together live events
• 21:19
  that have been considered the best events in the history of brokerage.
• 21:21
  So, but they've been small, they've been 400 people, 400 people.
• 21:25
  So on November 19th, we are gonna produce and present the global
• 21:29
  commercial real estate broker virtual summit that go out to the world.
• 21:33
  It's gonna be absolutely incredible.
• 21:34
  Uh, it's gonna be the, the studio in Vegas is phenomenal.
• 21:37
  It's where Tony Robbins gives his, his.
• 21:38
  Large global presentations for the grace of God.
• 21:41
  I have people like Bob Knackle and Matt McGregor joining us.
• 21:44
  Be there to speak and present.
• 21:46
  But yeah, that's, that's my next big thing that I think this is, uh, you're
• 21:50
  too young, Matt, you're not too young.
• 21:51
  Made is, you know, evil.
• 21:52
  Knievel jumped the Grand Canyon and he really jumped it.
• 21:54
  I don't think so.
• 21:56
  He said he was gonna jump and yet he couldn't burn this besides point.
• 22:00
  So this, this is my Grand Canyon.
• 22:01
  This is my big jump to say I could do this.
• 22:04
  We'll see what happens.
• 22:05
  I don't think we'll crash and burn, but I think it's gonna be spectacular.
• 22:07
  It's gonna be spectacular.
• 22:08
  Looking forward to it.
• 22:09
  Looking forward to seeing you there.
• 22:11
  Bob and gentlemen, thank you so much for being on the show.
• 22:14
  Uh, it was pleasure having both of you.
• 22:16
  Uh, uh, great book.
• 22:18
  Great.
• 22:19
  Best of luck with the book.
• 22:20
  It's, I, I am sure it's selling like crazy.
• 22:22
  And where can people find it?
• 22:24
  We exclusively have it on amazon.com so everyone can get it as fast as possible.
• 22:28
  We made that decision.
• 22:29
  So amazon.com selling buildings by Bob Knackle and Rod Smo.
• 22:34
  Excellent.
• 22:34
  Thank you gentlemen.
• 22:35
  Guys, thank you so much.
• 22:36
  You're, you're true legends and innovators in our space and appreciate
• 22:40
  you, uh, sharing your incredible insight with us and, and the listeners.
• 22:43
  So thank you so much.
• 22:44
  Hey, bill and Matt, thank you so much for having us on.
• 22:47
  It's great.
• 22:47
  And Matt, I look forward to seeing you, uh, yeah, in Vegas.
• 22:50
  Yes, I'll be there.
• 22:51
  Looking forward to it.
• 22:52
  We'll see you then.
• 22:53
  Thanks Bob.
• 22:53
  Thank you guys.
• 22:54
  That's a wrap, gentlemen.
• 22:55
  Thanks a lot.